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[0:00] Michael Ritchie: Welcome to 30 to Curtain, a Center Theatre Group podcast. As one of the country's most influential nonprofit theater companies, we produce and present the work of most of the leading theater artists of our time. We do this across all three of our stages, the Ahmanson Theatre, the Mark Taper Forum, and the Kirk Douglas Theatre, as well as in our educational outreach and community programs. I'm Michael Ritchie, Artistic Director of the Center Theatre Group. For each episode of this podcast, I'll talk with some of the talented artists from both on and off the stage so that hopefully you can learn more about them, their process, and their work before arriving at the theater. Our latest guests are playwright Eliza Clark, who has written a new play, Quack, which will have its world premiere at the Kirk Douglas Theatre October 21st through November 18th, 2018.

Eli is a writer and co-executive producer on TNT's Animal Kingdom, and an accomplished playwright. She has developed works at theaters, including Manhattan Theatre Club and the Studio at Cherry Lane Theatre. She's also a member of our own LA Writers' Workshop, where she first developed this new play, Quack. Also joining Eli on this episode is Quack's Director and Center Theatre Group's Associate Artistic Director, Neel Keller. I hope you enjoy the conversation, and I look forward to seeing you at the theater. All right, let's just start right at the beginning of the two of you meeting. Where and when did the two of you meet?

[1:41] Neel Keller: We met at the Writers Workshop, the CTG Writers Workshop, about two years ago, where Eli was working on what was originally a different play, and then became Quack. When did you and I meet, Neil?

[1:54] Michael Ritchie: 1947. It feels like 1947. Actually, do you remember? Do you want to remember specifically?

[2:02] Neel Keller: 88? 87? That sounds about right. Neil and I met at a drive-in movie theater in North Adams, Massachusetts. My wife was doing a play up at the Williamstown Theater Festival, and I went up to visit, and she said, a bunch of people are going to the drive-in. So I went to the drive-in with her in my car, and sitting in the car, the movie had just started, and then out of nowhere, these two men that I didn't know or recognize came running towards my car, started banging on the windows, pounding on the hood. Both of them were armed with two cans of shaving cream, and they leapt on the hood of my car and covered my windshield with shaving cream. One of them was Neil, and the other was?

[2:53] Neel Keller: John Guare. One of America's greatest playwrights.

[2:59] Michael Ritchie: And I got out of my car. I was pissed at first. I got out of my car, and they shot shaving cream at me, and then introduced themselves. It was the first time I met them. And I thought about Neil, oh, I got to hang out with this guy. You were like in your early 20s, mid-20s, and you were running around with like one of America's greatest playwrights vandalizing cars.

[3:13] Neel Keller: One of America's greatest vandals. I was under the undue influence for about eight years.

[3:20] Michael Ritchie: So what happened? What was the meet-cute thing that happened with the two of you when you first met?

[3:24] Neel Keller: Yeah, you didn't do anything like that for me.

[3:28] Michael Ritchie: Just wait. Just wait until tech week.

[3:31] Neel Keller: Oh, good. No, we literally sort of met mainly after the reading of the play, the first time the play was really read. And it was very exciting, and I was very excited by the play. And I remember engaging right away in some conversations with Eliza about the play and about what she wanted to do next and what the next steps might be and saying, let's talk soon, she, Joy Meads and I, about how we can sketch out those next steps and continue developing the play.

[3:59] Michael Ritchie: So Eli, why don't you talk a little bit about the Writers' Workshop, what it is and what it did for you in terms of writing this particular play? And was this the play that you set out to write?

[4:09] Eliza Clark: The Writers' Workshop is about 10 months long. And at the first weekend, each writer has chosen two experts who are chosen based on what you think your play might be about. And the writer interviews them with the other writers watching. There's seven of us in the group, one of whom, from my group, just won the MacArthur Genius Grant, Dominique Morisseau. And so my play, I had decided was going to be about people who'd had alien encounters, which is not at all what Quack is about if you're listening to this in your car. But I had this idea for a play that took place in Joshua Tree and was about the Integratron or a building like it. And so that was what I was excited about writing. But that was also two or three weeks after Donald Trump got elected. And I just kept feeling like there was a different play in me.

[5:14] Michael Ritchie: But before you started that play, tell us about your two experts on alien abduction who came and spoke at the Writers' Workshop.

[5:20] Eliza Clark: Yes, I had a woman who runs a support group for people who have had alien encounters and a man who has had alien encounters. And they spoke to our group.

[5:34] Michael Ritchie: And how did they become experts? Who defines them as an expert?

[5:42] Eliza Clark: Well, I think Patricia Garza and Joy Meads were the ones who were finding these experts. And it was amazing. I mean, we had experts for each play. You know, the seven plays were completely different. So they're just like finding people that have that, you know, weird life experience that you're looking for. And I've said this before, but I, you know, now I never want to write a play without having two days of random strangers telling me things about their lives. I mean, it was a really creatively fulfilling weekend. And the Writers' Workshop was a, it was a great year for me, just theatrically.

[6:22] Michael Ritchie: So how did you end up getting to Quack? What was the, what was the turn then when you started writing this particular play?

[6:29] Eliza Clark: I had written the first scene of Quack, like five years ago. And the first scene, I won't spoil anything, but was sort of about, I wanted to write a play about vaccines. And so it's, that's what, that was the inspiration for the first scene. And that's not at all what the play's about. Although it is one part of what the play's about. And then, but I kept kind of that, that scene was in my desk drawer and I kept coming back to it and feeling like this is something I want to keep writing. But to be honest, it was like that tone and the pace of that scene was frightening to me because it's really, we keep talking about it in rehearsal, like it's shot out of a cannon. And it seemed hard to keep writing it.

So I kept trying and then not being able to kind of fit the tone and putting it away again. And then with the election of Donald Trump and just the things I was feeling about that and the stuff I was reading about the alt-right and just how I was feeling about the country, I started writing a very different play based on that first scene, but taking it in a way different direction.

[7:45] Neel Keller: And when we heard that play first read that last two Junes ago, it was all of that that Eliza's talking about was, it was remarkable because it had a pace and an energy and a humor that was infectious, but it also seemed to somehow be about something that was happening in the world without being a one-on-one, you know, storytelling specifically about actual characters, you know, or the actual situation, you know, but it seemed to sort of be about what was happening in the world. And then in the 18 months since then, the world has almost sort of fulfilled the play. There are now scenes in the play and things said in the play that over the course of the last six or eight months, I'll read the newspaper and there'll be someone, a real person in the paper saying something that one of the characters has been saying in this play for over two years. And it's, has a prescience combined with the sense of humor and, and almost occasionally slapstick or shot out of a can and quality of it that is theatrically really exciting.

[8:50] Michael Ritchie: So the two of you met or really started talking at the end of that writer's workshop year when there was a completed first draft and talking about the potential for a production here at Center Theatre Group. Eventually we made a decision to do the show. And at that point, the two of you were then actively starting to work together on a new play and the relationship between a playwright and a director on a new play is almost like a marriage. It, it, it sometimes may be a forced marriage. It may be, you know, a proposed marriage, but it is a marriage of creative.

[9:26] Neel Keller: I was just going to ask you, is the honeymoon over or has it been?

[9:39] Eliza Clark: No. And how do you, how do you on, on both sides, how do you navigate developing that relationship? There's got to be trust, but you've also got to push each other. You've got to draw lines. You've got to work collegially. You've, uh, how does that develop?

[9:54] Neel Keller: Oh, I don't have to work collegially. I just scream all the time. No, I, that's a joke. I, uh, love working with Neil and we, it has been really fun to be able to do workshops of the play, knowing we were going to have a production. That's, you know, not a thing that happens all the time in theater and has been a real blessing for the play and for the production. So, you know, three of the five actors who are in the play have done workshops of the play. Um, some of them have done more than one. And so they've also been working on the play for over a year, which is great so that we've been, you know, creating this together and Neil and I've had an opportunity to like figure out how to work together without it being in the rehearsal room.

[10:40] Eliza Clark: Um, although we had no growing pains, it was perfect. You know, one of the very lucky things about working at Center Theatre Group and being able to do plays here is that I really only end up doing plays that I really am excited about. And that's a gift because it makes the relationship with the playwright so much easier because the play leads everything. You know, you just feel like you're in, there's a wonderful play here. You feel like a playwright has caught a certain magic in a bottle and it's just about what can you do? And then after you, the actors and the designers to help her, you know, realize as fully and as excitingly as possible that magic.

[11:20] Michael Ritchie: Well, you know, as we were talking earlier, we've known each other for decades and, um, work closely at a number of theaters around the country. And I've also known of other theaters and plays that you've done. And you've done the full range of plays from, um, world classic revivals to, um, you know, the third or fourth production of a new play. But in recent years, you've completely focused on brand new plays that have warranted development and production conscious choice on your part to only pursue those plays.

[11:56] Neel Keller: I think so. I think that's the most exciting use of my, whatever they are talents. I feel like you work to get better as a director and learn how to convey your storytelling ideas to designers and to actors. And the fullest use of that skill is when you're working on a new play that's being developed and you have a collaborative relationship with a writer. So the thing is actually being created and you feel like you're most fully immersed in helping to tell that story. So I think those are the projects that excite me the most. I enjoy

[12:30] Eliza Clark: Hi, without giving away, you know, the ending of the play or the bulk of the arc of it. Let's just talk about what is the play about. Set the stage for us as to what the play is about. This was really hard to do. It's hard to pitch it. At the top of the play, a television doctor who is extremely celebrated and popular is dealing with the aftermath of an article that's been written about him that basically accuses him of being a quack and being responsible for a measles epidemic. And from there, the play becomes a sort of whirlwind of his public shaming and how he starts lashing out at the people closest to him and specifically the woman who wrote the article. And it is, as I know, filled with humor.

I mean, there are a lot of laughs in it. And so you've taken on, as Neil was saying, an idea four or five years ago, whenever you started this process, that it does appear that it's of the moment, this very public shaming or being written sometimes, you know, most times, you know, legitimately deserved. Other times, there are gray areas to the stories that come into play. You're setting out to write that, and it ends up being both humorous and deep. Do you intend to write humor or does it come naturally to you? Is it a thread for you that you want to present it that way?

[14:30] Eliza Clark: My favorite tone is the kind of comedy that turns at some point. That's just what I have been most interested in writing. It's also what I like watching, the sort of, you know, like my favorite movie is Fargo. And I think, you know, this play is nothing like that, but it, you know, Fargo is a movie that is serious, scary and really funny. So that's my favorite thing to watch. And so that's kind of what I write. Although I, you know, people always say that my plays are comedies and I take them very seriously. So, like, I think this play is pretty dark and scary in lots of ways, but I hope it's funny because that's what I want to see. I want to have fun in the theater. And then I want to feel bad at a certain point.

[15:21] Neel Keller: Well, yeah. Well, that is a life in the theater. Okay. Have fun and then feel bad. Don't we all?

[15:29] Eliza Clark: Yeah. One of the reasons it's one of the reasons it's fun and funny, I think, is just because the writing is not trying to portray the situation naturalistically in some sense. There is a verve and a wit and a facility to the writing, which is occasionally breathtaking. You know, when the characters go on these mad runs of language, because at some level, the play is about who gets to speak and who gets heard and the power of words and a character who's used to being listened to. And when he loses some of the feeling that he's being listened to, the sort of verbal onslaught of just words that come out in an attempt to be heard and to have that feeling in his life again, it becomes delightfully funny.

[16:18] Neel Keller: How deep into rehearsal are we?

[16:21] Eliza Clark: We are at the end of our third week. So today, just before we came in here to talk to you, we for the first time put about the first half of the play roughly together. And we've been working on scenes individually. But we just this afternoon ran the first hour-ish of the play, which is, you know, right around probably a little more than half of the play. And to see those four scenes, it was the first day in several weeks that we've had the entire cast in the room at the same time, because we've been breaking it down and work on individual scenes. So we're just moving into our final week in the rehearsal room, where we will now put all those scenes together in sequence almost every day and begin to shape the whole experience.

[17:03] Neel Keller: Normally, we do a three-week rehearsal period here at Center Theatre Group. That's pretty much the standard across the field. So you've got a fourth week to work on this play. How did that come about?

[17:11] Eliza Clark: There's a wonderful grant that you can apply for from the Edgerton Foundation that's only for brand new plays that pays for an extended rehearsal period. And in this case, they paid for both for one of our workshops, where we got to work with some of the actors who were in the cast, and then take some time off for Eli to rewrite, and then they paid for an extra week in the actual rehearsal. And it's been very helpful in this project for several reasons. One is the line load for the leading actor would be daunting to pull off in three weeks, and the fourth week gives him the time to pull it off and then actually act and work and rehearse, knowing the lines and all that, which is great. There are also some, hopefully to the audience, they will not seem like complicated scene changes, and the thing will wind up and move in a very exciting way. But there is a lot of figuring out that has to go into all of that that was very helpful in the week.

[18:03] Neel Keller: There's some stage magic.

[18:06] Eliza Clark: We hope. I have to say, you know, I feel like this is my fourth professional production of a play. And it is by far the most like, there's not a part of this play that I feel like isn't ready or that I hope people will sort of, you know, look away from. It just, I feel like it's working for me on the page and now on its feet, because we've had so much time to really make it what it should be.

[18:41] Eliza Clark: And one of the interesting things that happened in those workshops was discovering not just the story the actors had to tell, but the story in a way that the set had to tell, that the environment had to tell. And that, having the time in the workshops to figure that out, and then therefore the time ahead of the rehearsals to actually work with the set designer to be able to achieve that, has sharpened the whole play, I think, in a way for the audience that will add to the fun of it.

[19:07] Neel Keller: Totally. The scenery is a character in the play in a way that it wasn't in the first draft.

[19:12] Eliza Clark: Are you in rehearsal every day?

[19:14] Neel Keller: I am.

[19:15] Eliza Clark: All day?

[19:16] Neel Keller: All day. In spite of having a three-month-old.

[19:18] Eliza Clark: I know.

[19:19] Neel Keller: Or because?

[19:21] Eliza Clark: I am pumping breast milk in C.G.G.'s beautiful breast milk pumping room. Thank you. And suitable for naming.

[19:29] Neel Keller: Yeah. No, and it's great to have you in rehearsal every day. Certainly the conversations about what's happening at any given moment, I think, between the two of you, it's critical. Are you doing any rewriting? Minor? Major?

[19:48] Eliza Clark: Because we've had so many workshops, there's not major rewriting going on, but there is lots of cutting and honing and little surgical things that are making the play better, and jokes are better because of it, and the actors are a part of that conversation, and it's been good.

[20:05] Neel Keller: There's also the realization with rewriting an actor is the burden it puts upon them at a certain point, and that you do have to stop at some point presenting them with new material to really get them up to speed. Another week in rehearsal, then, go into the theater for technical rehearsals. How long do we have for that?

[20:26] Eliza Clark: It's just about a week. We start on a Tuesday. We start tech on a Tuesday, and I believe we have a preview that Sunday night is the schedule, so it's just about a week, and I think it'll take us in the neighborhood of three days to tech through the show because of some of the scenery things, and then that'll give us a day or two to do full dress rehearsals before the first audience, and then being, as with any play, but especially a play like this, I think the previews will be a time where we do great work that we don't even know what to anticipate yet because the audience is going to tell us in their reactions so many things about what they're following, what's funny, when they're lost, if they're ever confused, that I think the week in previews that follows the tech week will be a week where everything gets sort of tweaked and shifted.

[21:14] Neel Keller: How do you go about doing that when you're performing all those evenings? What's the schedule to tweak and fix, and is it full rehearsals? Is it notes with the actors? Try tech rehearsals?

[21:29] Eliza Clark: We'll do the preview every night at eight o'clock, and then we'll let the actors go after the show, and we'll then do notes with the designers and the technical staff and plan all of our notes that we're going to do with the actors the next day so that we set up the afternoon's rehearsals so that we have the right scenery pieces out and the right costumes to do whatever it is we need to do, and then we'll work with the actors from about noon until about five before they have another show, and I'm sure that will include everything from we need to trick rig costumes so they can get in and out of them faster to some small rewrites to changing the actors' thought process in a whole scene and the way they're playing a scene. It'll range a whole gamut of changes. I imagine we'll try different sound cues. We'll try different lighting moments to try and make moments land.

[22:13] Neel Keller: Eli, you also write for other mediums as well, television and film. You started out as a playwright.

[22:24] Eliza Clark: I did, yeah.

[22:26] Neel Keller: And do you think you will remain a playwright throughout your writing life?

[22:32] Eliza Clark: Yes.

[22:33] Neel Keller: And why is that in that I know how difficult it is to be a playwright?

[22:41] Eliza Clark: I think that actually writing for television has made my plays better because it makes them more necessary as plays. You know, if I have an idea, it's probably more lucrative to make it a movie or a television show. So if it has to be a play, then it really has to be a play. And, you know, I've thought about adapting my plays to other mediums as well and I may end up doing that. But I like, you know, quack, the scenery is like a huge part of the play and the place that take the office where it takes place as a character. And that's the kind of thing that I think really happens in a play. I love writing for both television and theater, but it's just a very different animal. And my favorite thing to write is dialogue. And so, you know, there's nothing better than theater for that because you can't write a 20 page scene for television. You really I mean, you shouldn't because nobody will make it.

[23:48] Eliza Clark: Some of the actors were today planning out quack, the musical. So I think tomorrow rehearsal, they're going to present a few numbers.

[23:57] Neel Keller: Exactly. So this is a world premiere. Given that, do we have any idea of any path forward on the play? Any other productions? Any other plans for it?

[24:05] Eliza Clark: Well, it is going to be done at the Alley in Houston in February. And then I hope that it will be done elsewhere.

[24:19] Neel Keller: As do we. Anything of note that we want to leave with our audience before they park their car into City Hall for free and then walk into the Kirk Douglas Theater to see this incredible production of Quack?

[24:26] Eliza Clark: I liked that parking plug.

[24:35] Neel Keller: No, I think they should just enjoy.

[24:38] Eliza Clark: Yeah. Buckle up.

[24:40] Neel Keller: You've been listening to 30 to Curtain, a Center Theatre Group podcast. You can find out more about Quack, our organization, and upcoming productions on our website at centertheatregroup.org.