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[0:00] Doug Baker: You're listening to 30 to Curtain, a Center Theatre Group podcast. I'm Doug Baker, Center Theatre Group's producing director, and I'll be your guest host for this episode. I work closely with artistic director Michael Ricci to bring productions to our three theaters, the Amundsen Theater, Mark Taper Forum, and Kirk Douglas Theater.

[0:26] Doug Baker: Joining us for this episode of 30 to Curtain is theater producer Kevin McCollum. Kevin has produced some legendary Broadway shows throughout his career, including Rent, Avenue Q, In the Heights, and The Play That Goes Wrong, which joins us at the Amundsen Theater July 9 through August 11, 2019. I hope you enjoy the conversation, and we look forward to seeing you at the theater.

[0:58] Doug Baker: Before we talk specifically about The Play That Goes Wrong, I'd like to focus on the numerous projects CTG has had the pleasure, the fortunate situation of working with you on, because really we've had quite a rich history together, haven't we? You are my training ground, my past, my present, and it looks like my future as well, which I'm excited about. Indeed, indeed. We have produced together. We have partnered as producers, specifically on the world premiere of The Drowsy Chaperone, Minsky's. We recreated the incredibly beautiful production of La Boheme, directed by Baz Luhrmann, that you produced on Broadway. We brought that to Los Angeles audiences only, thanks to your help, and you were a partner with us on the transfer of Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo, moving to Broadway. Of course, we've also presented a number of your amazing productions, specifically Rent, Avenue Q, and quite recently, Something Rotten. And now we're going to move into The Play That Goes Wrong.

[2:08] Kevin McCollum: Well, first of all, let me say thank you for all that.

[2:13] Doug Baker: You're welcome. But you're forgetting the most important thing we've done together, and this is before your time, Doug. I actually trotted the boards at the Amundsen.

[2:17] Kevin McCollum: I hoped you would mention this. She Loves Me starring Pam Dauber and Joel Higgins and so many wonderful, wonderful people. And when I was an actor here, to be on your stage was a dream come true. And to actually then sort of evolve into a producer where I found shows to bring to your stage is not lost on me. And sort of this sort of journey in the arts of how you try to contribute while you're here. So the Amundsen has a very, very special place in my heart. And I'm grateful that I'm able to work with you and Michael and the entire organization here.

[2:54] Doug Baker: Thank you very much. I kept that window card of the production that you did outside my office for many years. It's valuable to no one, so you may have it.

[3:08] Kevin McCollum: Thank you. Thank you. So let's jump into The Play That Goes Wrong, this phenomenal comedy. How refreshing to be talking about a comedy.

[3:14] Doug Baker: It is. We love our dramas. And I love tap dancing. I love tap. I love musicals. I was born on musicals. I grew up in Hawaii where my intro to Broadway was records. So it's no surprise I produced The Drowsy Chaperone about a man who sits in his room, although he was middle-aged. I was 10 to 14, so I had a reason. And I am thrilled that we are bringing a show that is so different. And yet it's rooted in a tradition of theater we don't see anymore.

[3:45] Kevin McCollum: I've heard you mention the tradition. I think that's very interesting. How do you see that?

[3:56] Doug Baker: Well, I see it in that theater and live entertainment before television, the special effect often was laughter. It was a very difficult time, obviously. We're talking the turn of the century. We're talking the 20s, going through the wars. The idea of showing up at theaters, people, that was how they got the entertainment. Yes, film was happening. Television hadn't happened. But the live arts were sort of what built our country and actually promoted immigration in that if you look at our art form, it is a culmination of British musical, Irish storytelling, Viennese operetta. In the 20s, we started to get the Cuban and African sort of musical elements within our vocabulary. And then finally, the secret sauce that turned Broadway into Broadway was the Yiddish theater.

And why? Because rather than looking out and singing about what we are or doing presentational, they turned to each other to say, who are we and how do we get through our day? And that brought a showboat, which was really the first musical about looking at ourselves through music socially, as well as in the sort of great tradition of great singing. And so with that, that element at the same time with Charlie Chaplin and things like that physical comedy, because you didn't have sound. So you had to create conflict through man and environment or man against man, visually without words or very few words. So what we've done now with The Play That Goes Wrong is in the tradition of great Chaplinesque meets Monty Python meets Benny Hill meets show of shows, Sid Caesar, 50s television.

This vocabulary is a lost art form in the last 40 years on stage. And The Play That Goes Wrong brings that back. That's the secret weapon that we have that people don't realize until they're theater. Why am I laughing? Because it's in our DNA. It is in our DNA, because when we laugh and our brain secretes dopamine, can you say secretes on this show? It's theatrical, right? You have this wonderful euphoria of, oh, I've met my tribe. I came into this darkened place called the Amundsen. It's a theater and it's theater. And I'm in an L.A. town, which is I'm in L.A., which is a Hollywood film intelligent town. And I'm having belly laughs with strangers. I'm not in my car. I'm not spending my time how to get across Fountain to get to my next place. I'm not waiting on the 101. I'm with strangers in L.A., downtown. And look at what you've done here since I was here. Many who have made a big effort to get to the theater.

[7:01] Doug Baker: But you have a great destination here. When I first performed here, it was just you guys and a courthouse. So you were either an actor or you were going to jail. Those were the two things you could do here. Now, you got Disney Hall, you got the Contemporary Museum of Art, and theater is only getting stronger. And now how you're programming not only here, but everywhere around the city, it is a golden time for theater. And so to bring back something so analog, which is, it is what it says it is. It's a play that goes wrong. It's like, how ridiculous, how simple, and yet, how special. And that's what I'm excited about for five weeks that Los Angeles audiences get to experience.

[7:38] Kevin McCollum: I've also heard you talk about another secret weapon, if you will, in this production. And it's not a human being. It's your 11th character. It's the physical production, the set. Is that true?

[7:46] Doug Baker: Yeah. Well, the set actually did win the Tony. We were up for one Tony, and it was for set, and the set won. And let me tell you, getting that set to agree to get into that truck every week, I can't tell you the rider that set comes with. I mean, we have to talk to the set while we're putting it up. We have to use special hinges. We cannot use screws anymore. They want a smooth nail. It hurts less, I'm told. So there's a lot we've had to do for this set.

[8:19] Kevin McCollum: Climate-controlled trucks, I hope.

[8:22] Doug Baker: Let me just say, our set has a drinking problem, all right? I just want to say that right now. Thank God the guys who drive the trucks don't. But in the back, that set is having a few. And that's why it's a little unstable throughout the show. And that's why the actors have a challenge, and that's why the play that goes wrong does.

[8:42] Kevin McCollum: You could, in fact, consider it the antagonist of the show.

[8:47] Doug Baker: You actually can, actually, and it is. Because the one thing, you know, the cliché of being an actor in the theatre is all you have to do is say your lines and don't bump into the theatre. I mean, don't bump into the set or the furniture. But when the furniture is actually actively trying to get you to bump into it, it becomes a different dance. But all kidding aside, this play is a physical sort of journey. Every actor up there is not only a comedian, they're all very much athletes. We have a half hour call before the show to get everyone prepared. It's like doing a big, big musical, but it's a play. And I think it's why we're in this play, not only was two years on Broadway, but we're going to run two and a half years on the road.

And for a play, that's unheard of, to have a second full season. And part of that was because very early on, the Amundsen said, we think our audiences will love this. And we haven't seen anything like this in a long time. And without theatres like the Amundsen, and it's so healing for the company, because our company has been doing a week or two weeks, or three weeks, but then to come to Los Angeles and be able to do five weeks with such a sophisticated audience, and also one that again, we're thirsty for laughter. There's a lot of great drama, there's a lot of great shows and musicals, art or musical comedies. But there's not been sort of a laugh, fall down, fall out of your seat comedy. And we did not hesitate to ask you to figure out a way that we could present it.

And we were very pleased to be doing it during the summer. We think it's a great time to come in and have a great time. The other thing about the show, I will say not only is it a great time. One of the reasons why we're a success is people are buying tickets and fours and eights, not twos and fours. Why? It's a multi-generational show. You have no worry about language, you have no worry about appropriate. Five-year-olds have said, it's the greatest show I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of shows.

[10:51] Kevin McCollum: It's one of those things where I remember when I first saw, you know, and I was a little older, when I first saw *Noises Off*, it's the only show I bought a ticket the next night for, and there wasn't anything available. So I got a ticket sitting in the audience the first night. I went and said, is there anything for tomorrow? And there was standing room, and I bought standing room the next night. And so for me, it's that great tradition of being surprised. And I think it's not since *Noises Off*, the original production on Broadway in the 80s, have I seen anything as funny as this. When did you first see the show? How did you discover it? I heard about the show before I saw it. I was producing another show that you did of mine, *Something Rotten*, which I don't think we talked about in that little preamble. So I'm glad we're still talking. But it was a big hit here. I think you did it in the holidays.

[11:41] Douglas C. Baker: We did. And it was a big hit.

[11:42] Kevin McCollum: And it was so much fun to see. Because it's a darn good show.

[11:44] Douglas C. Baker: Thank you.

[11:46] Kevin McCollum: You know, what's great about this show that I'll tell you, answer your question. But you know, I did *Drowsy Chaperone*, one of the worst titles in the musical theater of telling people what it's about. And then I did, if that wasn't bad enough, I then did a musical called *Something Rotten*, which, you know, if you're not from this country, or you don't know Shakespeare, and let's say you're from Tokyo, and you ask someone, what should I see on Broadway? And you're not familiar with the language, and they say *Something Rotten*. It's like, no, I want to see something good. And so, you know, it was a challenging title. What I love about this play is it says what it is. It is the play that goes wrong.

And you'd think, oh, you don't want to give that away, don't you? But the surprise is how wrong it goes. And yet through the wrongness, it finds its rightness. And playing with that has just been great. So I'm producing *Something Rotten* in New York. And you know this from the League in America, what we call the League, which are all the theaters and the producers talk about how to get the shows out there. They have a similar thing in London called SALT, Society of London Theaters. And usually, and I'm a member, I'm one of the few Americans that's a member. And so I get the notice from SALT, and I open it up. And you know, it's from a show. And it's always like, please come see our show. Think of us for the award season.

We'd love to offer you tickets. Let us know when you'll be there. And I get this letter that says, Dear Theater Professional, you know, we are the Mischief Theater Company. And we have, you might have heard of our play, *The Play That Goes Wrong*. We are asking you, please do not come to our show. We are somewhat embarrassed about it. And we had to open it because we had nowhere else to go. And we needed the warmth of the theater because we don't have housing. It was one of the funniest letters about do not do not vote for the show. It's please don't. And I thought, oh, this is these guys are funny. I want because I'm doing *Something Rotten*. And I'm using a similar campaign in America. I told my assistant, I said, I need to go see the show.

And I need to see it probably sooner than later, because I think they're onto something. Two days later, I get a call from an agency. And they say, Do you know J.J. Abrams? I'm like, Yeah, I know J.J. Abrams. I know of J.J. Abrams. And I said, He just saw this play, *The Play That Goes Wrong*. And he really wants to think about being helpful and bringing it to the United States. And I said, Well, I'm about to go see it. And he goes, Well, we thought of you because of, you know, we know J.J., we know you. We think you guys might want to do it because, you know, J.J. also is producing some films and television, but he loves this. And I said, OK, I'm not quite sure how that would work, but I'm seeing it next week.

I saw it next week later. J.J. and I spoke and we realized we're very simpatico in what we like in the theater. One of his favorite shows was *Noises Off*, too, when he went and saw it in New York originally. And we've just realized, you know, we're both raising children and we have similar things going on in our lives. And we both have a similar appreciation for the theater. And I didn't realize he grew up on the theater and he didn't realize I also spent time in film and then went back to the theater. So as a result, we, Kenny and Mark, who were the original London producers, agreed that we could do it as partners here with them. And so the four of us decided to make an arrangement. And then so J.J. and I are the North American producers.

And it's just been a joy because the thing about J.J., he's innately curious. And I think successful careers, no matter what you do, stay curious. And in film and television, you do everything you can to capture it. And then it's done. And then that's what it is. And J.J. comes from a place of wanting to always invent. And so the fact that the play is never done and even replacing the British company with the United States company, with an American company, always tweaking, always asking questions. And he's wonderful with actors. He's wonderful with authors and directors. And, you know, Doug, in the theater, it's not a work for hire business. Everybody has to show up to make it work. And if somebody really is a problem, you know, in film and television, just get it in the can and move on.

In the theater, everybody has to stay buoyant. J.J. leads that. He is not what you read about in cliché Hollywood personalities. He's a theater guy who happens to be one of the most successful film and television people we have. So he's truly a man. He's a Renaissance guy. And it's a privilege to be in the room with him.

[16:41] Douglas C. Baker: Well, I will add that your description of J.J. is pretty much how I would describe you to someone. All of those. I mean that quite sincerely. I'm blushing over the podcast.

[16:54] Kevin McCollum: You stay so engaged. You are indeed truly wonderful with your artists. You treat them well. I've seen it. You function as much a producer as a dramaturg on your shows. You help your authors as they're working through the challenges of act two's not working quite right. How are we going to get out of this mess? If it's a musical, I promise you act two isn't working. It's the bane of all musicals. The only thing you can do at that point is fire the wardrobe supervisor.

[17:24] Kevin McCollum: Absolutely. Just to show who's boss. Exactly. Exactly. Well, that's very sweet of you. And I am I am grateful that I have been allowed to collaborate with people who actually allow me to contribute in some way, because like J.J. and his visceral reaction to seeing the show, which he just sort of was filming and walked into something he'd never heard of and was surprised and had sort of a guttural, you know, emotional reaction to laughing like he hadn't laughed in a long, long time. This is a belly laugh. It's a belly laugh show. And so to have I think part of my skill as a producer is I'm very by the gut. It's never about, oh, my God, is this a hit? It's that. Do I want to be in the room with this story?

And if I want to be in the room with the story, then it's a better chance to be a hit, because if it's not a hit, I don't resent the time I spent because I wanted to be in the room with that story. And I think that alignment of whatever, however we fill our days, if you know why you're filling your days this way rather than through obligation or because you're trying to get the approval of someone, but if you can align from your gut and I'm an only child. My parents died when I was young. And I think a lot of us in the theater come from a survival mentality of because, again, we create something that evaporates every performance. There is something just sort of healing and wonderful about being in the room with others like that.

And I think J.J. is like that. He is a guy who who watched for a long time and wasn't sure what he wanted to do. But if you talk to him and through the interviews, you know, he is someone who just wanted to contribute. And I think I definitely know what that feels like, because I'm very driven by wanting to contribute.

[19:22] Douglas C. Baker: Seems like a very good match. The two of you are having fun.

[19:25] Kevin McCollum: We he has better hair than me by far. But I'm starting to wear I'm starting to wear like like like full like my reading glasses are now heavier, thicker, you know, darker glasses. That look. I'm putting it on. There we go. But that's that's my J.J. I just put on some glasses.

[19:38] Douglas C. Baker: There you go. It's like Buddy Holly. It's like a Buddy Holly look that he's now taken as his own.

[19:44] Kevin McCollum: Gotcha. Tell us a bit about the Mischief Theater Company, please. And these amazing young people. And again, who are that theater company? I think because I was an actor and J.J., obviously, with his first shows, worked with his friends, you know, and to get up. These were three guys who all went to school together. Henry, the Henrys and Jonathan.

[20:07] Douglas C. Baker: Right. Two Henrys.

[20:11] Kevin McCollum: Two Henrys and one Jonathan. And they all went to school together. And we met them when they were 27, 28 years old. They just turned 30, actually. And they had gone to school together and they put this up like 20 minutes. They always loved magic and they always loved comedy. And they put up this show in a bar for 20 minutes and worked for beer. And through that, people started to come see and Kenny Wax came in touch with them and they expanded the show a little bit more. And anytime, you know, whether it was, you know, *Rent* with Jonathan Larson for myself or Bobby and Jeff Lopez on *Avenue Q* or Lin-Manuel Miranda on *In the Heights*. I love working with people who need an advocate to get themselves to Broadway or even Bob Martin on *Drowsy Chaperone*, which I am, I again, I think it's probably the only child in me is like, I want to be helpful for people to find their voice.

And the Mischief Theater, I wanted to be helpful to get them to Broadway. And a lot of people thought we shouldn't come to Broadway, maybe try off Broadway. And I'm like, no, it's very risky. And I said, here's the thing. I think they're the next Monty Python. But no one knows that yet. And so while we were doing that, they had already written *Peter Pan Goes Wrong*. And they were working on a play called the play about the bank robbery, which is a play set in Minnesota about a bank robbery in the 40s. I mean, it's just so odd that these three.

[21:43] Kevin McCollum: British, you know, friends from drama school write a play about that. I saw it in London and loved it. And that's still running. Yep. And so the fact that by the time we brought them to Broadway, they had three shows already on the West End. And they were, I mean, who wouldn't want to be in business with these guys? And also their loyalty to their friends. Because we brought over the original company for The Play That Goes Wrong, which were the three guys and seven more people who helped them create the show from the very beginning. So that kind of loyalty and that kind of sense of community and bonding, that's what makes the show so special too. In our rehearsal process, we go through a very different rehearsal process of, you know, trust and not just the lines, but how you can rely on each other that you cannot manufacture.

So by saying we would do it, I knew Broadway was going to work because these 10 people who created this show had a secret sauce that in America you rehearse for three weeks and put the show up. The comedy comes from their familiarity also with each other and their trust. So even when things go wrong, because actually things do go wrong, not meaning to go wrong in The Play That Goes Wrong at times, they know how to take it and build on it. And through that, our show also, if things happen to go wrong, we have 20 contingencies at every moment in the show. If the couch does this or that, I won't give away everything that happens, but certain things and, you know, since the set has been drinking, you never know what the set's going to do.

We have this wonderful, wonderful sense of we're just ready to play ball. I think that's the thing about this show and anyone who surrounds themselves around the Mischief Theater Company. Everybody has to show up to be willing to take risks with each other because you know you can trust the person you're taking the risk with. And that's what's great. And we have more to do with them. You're going to hear a lot about the Mischief Theater Company and we're starting to actually, it's The Play That Goes Wrong, but you'll see in a lot of the advertising now, it's like Mischief Theater Company because, and I've been a great advocate for this as well, they are like Monty Python. They are like the original SNL.

They are this truly, truly triumphant of talent that's going to create many, many, many more wonderful shows in the theater and also I think film and television as well. They're doing some television now in London that might be bought here in this country. So this is just the beginning with the Mischief. We're going to get into a lot of mischief. We're going to become mischievous. And JJ and I are talking about doing more with that.

[24:23] Douglas C. Baker: That's so great. When you were really in your earlier days as a producer, which we touched on a bit earlier in this conversation, who were your mentors? Who did you learn this biz from?

[24:38] Kevin McCollum: My first mentor actually was somebody who I was an actor for. When I first moved to LA, one of the first jobs I got was in Santa Barbara of a musical called She Loves Me. And the director was Paul Blake. And Paul, I then did that and I did it at the Amundsen. I did that production at the Amundsen. And then I went to film school at USC for my master's because I was now 26, still playing 17-year-olds. And I was, you know, God forbid you become really good at something that you only can do until you're 30. So I knew like, you know, I can play the ingenue for another couple of years, but I did Mordred and Camelot and productions and Joseph. But my mind was really, you know, I had taken care of myself, you know, and moved when I was 14 to live with my aunt and uncle.

And I had had a very sort of untraditional childhood where my survival skills were about, okay, I got to figure this out. And as a result, waiting for permission to perform started to, I didn't like waiting for permission. So I got my master's in film producing. And at the same time, right when I graduated, I started to work for Disney Pictures and did very, very well there. And I was on my way up and Paul said, do you want to do ARPAD again? Now I'm 29 or something like that. And I'm like, no, I'm kind of done with that. But, you know, I've been to film school and I know a little bit about film producing. And I think I could help you in theatre producing because I was an actor. I kind of know how it works in theatre too.

So he hired me to be sort of his associate producer for a tour of She Loves Me that played the Florida Circuit. And my role was replaced by Jeb Brown. And a lot of great Pam Dauber was in it, Joel Higgins again, and a lot of people.

[26:37] Kevin McCollum: Royal Poinciana Playhouse. Yeah, exactly. Parker Playhouse. Yeah, the Parker, we did the Florida Circuit and we ended, we ended actually, it was an 11-week tour, but we ended at the Orange County Performing Arts Center right a couple years after it opened. And I won't get into all the logistics and the economies of it, but working on that show in our final 12 weeks, we kind of broke even down in Florida and Charlotte Wilcox was the general manager. And so I would, I'd never met Charlotte, but I would pick up the phone because I was an actor. So I kind of knew how contracts worked, but I would, I would say, Hey, we're doing this route. And she would say, well, the rule is this, but then I'd call Los Angeles equity, who they knew me as an actor.

I said, can we do this instead? Because we're having a trouble with that truck and we need an extra hour. And equity worked very well with me because they knew me and they knew, you know, we weren't making a lot of money. We were just trying to get people working in LA.

[27:30] Douglas C. Baker: Right.

[27:31] Kevin McCollum: Um, and we then came to the, uh, the, uh, it's a great story to the Orange County Performing Arts Center. And we did like, you know, an $800,000 gross in 1988, which is like, that's like 3 million in today's dollars.

[27:44] Douglas C. Baker: Yeah. That's, that's, that's what Hamilton does per week.

[27:46] Kevin McCollum: For She Loves Me, for She Loves Me. That's great. And I'm the producer rep on the final night of Settlement. And Settlement, uh, for those of you don't know, is when you play a tour at the end of the engagement, whether it's five weeks at the end of five weeks or at the end of one week, you settle up. How much did you pay on advertising? How much was your crew? How was you? And you, and you, you chop up whatever's left. And all I can say is, is I walked out with a check, uh, from that week, not really understanding what it all meant. Uh, cause I was, you know, I was an actor, so I faked that I was a producer and, uh, and I walked out and I had him pull the check and I said, this is our overage. And I said, we have to figure out how to do more of this.

[28:29] Douglas C. Baker: That was the moment.

[28:30] Kevin McCollum: So I then worked for Paul for a number, a couple of years. And right when he got the Amundsen contract, I mean the Muni contract, uh, in St. Louis and where we would put a star in. And the first thing we did was Bye Bye Birdie with Tommy Tune. And, um, after that we created a company called The Booking Office, hired a young agent named Jeffrey Seller who is recently looking for a gig. And then, uh, and then I bought Paul out a couple of years later cause I'd moved to New York and he stayed in LA. And then Jeffrey and I became partners. We produced Rent and then we, you know, we had a great 20 years of producing a lot of shows and now Jeffrey and I, you know, produce independently and we're, we're both doing well.

But Paul Blake gets a lot of credit. Uh, the other person who gets a lot of credit is Paul Blake's attorney who's been my attorney ever since. Uh, uh, Lauren Plotkin, uh, who's been my only attorney. And then, uh, finally, but equally important, um, the person who gave me shows as an independent producer when I was a booking agent, cause I then, you know, really my living was booking until Rent came along. So I dealt with you when I was trying to sell you shows, other people's shows, whether it was Marie Osmond and Sound of Music or Evita or shows I was representing, Manny Azenberg. And the thing about Manny Azenberg, I remember when I was in college in music theater school, undergrad, cause I went to undergrad at Cincinnati Conservatory of Music as a music theater major.

So I was a very reasonable Hugh Jackman. Um, and, uh, as a result, I remember picking up the Wall Street Journal when he was doing, uh, a play. I don't quite remember the play. It wasn't Lost in Yonkers. It was another play at the Wall Street Journal did a whole front page sort of article on Manny Azenberg. And I thought to myself, that's somebody I need to meet. And, and at that time I wasn't quite sure I was a producer yet cause I think I was doing Joseph in Chicago at the time. So I didn't even know I was going to evolve into a producer, but it's, you know, those wonderful, it's almost like, you know, it's all random, but they're, it's probably not an accident that I'm here, but it is random, but I just tried to stay conscious and listen to how I could contribute.

So my mentors are those three men and, uh, Charlotte Wilcox as a, who really, I think it's why as a producer before I was a booking agent, I had to teach myself how to be a general manager and then a company manager and then run a building with Paul at the Amundsen, which is, I keep saying the Amundsen at the Muni. I'm at the Amundsen at the Muni, which is when you're with it, you do run the Amundsen.

[31:05] Kevin McCollum: The Muni is in St. Louis. For those of you who don't know, it's a 12,000 outdoor seat theater and it always rains at nine o'clock, but the show starts at 840. So I call it theater against all odds. And maybe that's, what's attractive about The Play That Goes Wrong because I will tell you at the Muni, it was always the musical that went wrong every night, but yet it's joyous because everybody gathers and it's too hot and it's too humid and it's too, too difficult. And yet that orchestra kicks up outdoors and you put 40 people on stage in a park and you hear, you hear a Brigadoon or a 42nd Street tap dancing and it's primarily just revivals, but the revivals are done with so much love and heart. And I think it's where I kind of developed my personality. If I can do shows at the Muni, I can kind of do shows anywhere.

[31:59] Douglas C. Baker: Kevin, it's been such a pleasure to speak with you.

[32:02] Kevin McCollum: It's a joy to be back here. Thank you for doing this. We look forward to seeing you at the theater in a few weeks.

[32:09] Kevin McCollum: I can't wait to watch Los Angeles laugh like they've never laughed before.

[32:14] Douglas C. Baker: You've been listening to 30 to Curtain, a Center Theater Group podcast. You can find out more about The Play That Goes Wrong, our organization, and upcoming productions on our website at centertheatergroup.org.