This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ian Eisendrath: As you look at, well, why did it just keep having seismic overhauls is because it's a seasonal show and you give anyone six months to think about something before the next step and they're going to want to change everything. And look, it did. I do believe it became progressively better and that each iteration improved, but it was basically, we would always laugh. So we called it Camp Christmas, which would always start around January, February, which was, okay, what do we have? Let's throw all the options on the table. And, you know, who's going to stick around? Who's going to be replaced? Who is going to actually be in the cast? The kids grow up every year. Totally. I didn't even think of that. It was always just a different production. And for me, it was like doing four different new musicals. And it was just a great way to learn. And it gave Ben, Justin and myself, our Broadway debut, our first cast album, so much. And it was a remarkable experience.

[1:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. I have a bunch of sisters in my family and the only thing that brings them as much joy as watching Hallmark during Christmas is watching Hallmark during Christmas in July. And you know what? It's been a tough month. There's been a lot of stuff that's gone down, so we are celebrating Christmas in July and gosh dang it, it's gonna be awesome. Today, we're talking about A Christmas Story with the man who will no doubt have to answer how on earth you get children to sing beautiful harmonies. It's the original musical director of A Christmas Story. Everyone, welcome Ian Eisendrath!

[2:12] Ian Eisendrath: Yay! It's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

[2:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, welcome. I'm so grateful that you're here. Now, let's talk first. You are maybe best known for musically directing a show that, like Christmas in July, can act as a balm to the soul. Maybe it's the current king of said genre, Come From Away.

[2:26] Ian Eisendrath: Yes, yes. Gorgeous show. Thank you so much.

[2:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You were nominated for a Grammy for it, which I got. Okay, so we did our episode on Come From Away with Gino Carr.

[2:39] Ian Eisendrath: Oh, wonderful. Sweetest guy.

[2:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I said in the episode that I love that album because you can just put it on and it's the next best thing to sing it live, you know?

[2:51] Ian Eisendrath: Totally our goal. I'm so glad that you said that. We were, you know, you always, when you put together an album, you start with trying to figure out, like, okay, do you want to do this as a bunch of songs that are sort of standalone experiences? Come From Away, to me, has always just felt like one big musical movement, you know, made up all these little parts. We just decided, let's just try to essentially recreate an audio version of the show.

[3:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Of the entire thing. That's wonderful. Well, successful. And then you guys filmed it for Apple TV+, which is incredible. And congrats on that. How was that? Like, what was different for you in going from the theater to, say, a streaming service?

[3:30] Ian Eisendrath: I mean, you know, it's like, the goal was, okay, let's try to make this feel as if in this really challenging pandemic moment where people cannot come together, where we obviously cannot bring people into a theater, let's bring this story, this experience that we all felt would really, really speak to the moment. Because it is sort of like waking up on 9-12, having just had this awful, unthinkable tragedy, and not knowing what comes next, and how to cope. And the other thing was that idea of the importance of community, and giving people a sense of what that looks like in a time that we couldn't be together, and we couldn't come together, and come from away couldn't happen.

[4:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Full blown chills, yes.

[4:20] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, so I really, so in trying to create the living room theatrical experience, a full proscenium shot of the show would just not read and be emotionally compelling. So it was really fun to work with the director to figure out how he wants to shoot everything. And then in terms of the audio capture, it's really interesting because a theater mix is designed to have everything play together and coexist in an environment where sounds can overlap. And the key to film mix is you want isolation, so that we can really craft the experience for the audience and bring the things that are most in focus to the front, other things to the back.

[5:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, because whatever the lens is on, is what our ear needs to be on.

[5:10] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, so we had to come up with really creative ways to essentially get clean ensemble vocals, get clean band, all while shooting either isolated shots, which was much easier to do that for, or doing a full run through the show for an audience that was brought together. So it's really interesting, because it was really where theater meets film, and how do we retain the theatrical experience while making this something that you are experiencing on screen.

[5:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. Well, not to put a perfect bow on this, but speaking of theater and film coming together in a musical way on Apple TV with Christmas elements.

[5:50] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what's happening at the end of the year?

[5:56] Ian Eisendrath: Yes, I just called you to say I'm running 10 minutes late, because we're in the middle of a final mix for Spirited, which is a brand new, it's almost like a musical fantasy, with a score by Pasek and Paul, starring Will Ferrell, Ryan Reynolds, Octavia Spencer. I started working on it in December of 2020, and was full-time every day, January of 2020, until now. And we are now finally at the time that we are doing the final mix. We're bringing all the elements together. We're in a theater, and we are seeing film on the big screen, and figuring out how, where music is going to sit in the mix, where every element of vocals, and instrumental, and taps for the tap dancing, sound effects, all of that lives.

And it's very exciting. This film is really special. In a lot of ways, it's a love letter, and having fun with the musical as a genre. It's a very self-aware that we're breaking into song, and every number is sort of an over extra explosive experience. But at the same time, it's a comedy, and also a super moving story. And it's not, you know, I wouldn't describe it as serious, but I would describe it as utterly heartwarming, and heartbreaking, and it's very ambitious. We're trying to do a lot, and I'm excited we're able to experience it.

[7:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, I can't wait. That sounds like a joy. So Apple TV Plus, obviously, but is it also going to be on the big screen, do you think?

[7:33] Ian Eisendrath: I'm optimistic it will be. I think that will sort of depend on what the next several months look like in so many different ways.

[7:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I'm sure. Okay, so now A Christmas Story. I thought this was going to be such a simple project, like a simple episode, but then I sat down and started thinking about all of the elements of the history that goes behind this, and there is so much history to A Christmas Story. So we have to start with the movie, right? 1983 is when the movie comes out. It's based on kind of the monologues and writings of Gene Shepard, who is a very popular radio personality, kind of like Garrison Keillor, right?

[8:16] Ian Eisendrath: Yes, absolutely. From Prairie Home Companion. So it's, I don't want to say tongue-in-cheek, but there is kind of a self-aware look at the banality of maybe Midwestern life that's really being...

[8:27] Ian Eisendrath: 100%. It was having, yeah, I think self-aware with a bit of like nostalgic humor. Nostalgia, 100%, like that's where the love comes from. It's 100% nostalgia, yes. But also, I have to think at the time when the film came out, it was a little edgy too, you know, just to do something. Especially in terms of a holiday film, because this is what I was going to say, we didn't watch this one in my house. You know, like the kid drops the F-bomb, like the bad one, not much. So like we didn't really watch this Christmas movie.

[9:04] Ian Eisendrath: Oh, that's funny, yeah. But it was unavoidable, because you got 24 hours of a Christmas story every year on TBS since the mid-90s, you know?

[9:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. So what about you though? Did you watch it? Do you do Christmas?

[9:16] Ian Eisendrath: It's funny, it was one that came up every year growing up. And I don't know if you have those things that it's sort of like, ah, this looks old. I don't really get this. It was almost a little uncomfortable in some ways, just because it was sort of this gritty look. And I didn't quite get it, because I didn't grow up in the Midwest, the 80s. Sorry, the 40s were certainly not, you know, it's interesting. Pretty, it's not pretty. It was this 80s, unpretty filter of what the 40s were like. The depression. Did you know that it was the 40s? Because I always just thought, oh, this is what the 80s looked like.

[9:50] Ian Eisendrath: You know, I'm glad you said that, because I didn't. I honestly didn't know it was the 40s until I started working on the musical and paid attention to it. And it was one of those things that I'd be on TV, and I just sort of clicked past as a kid. Interesting. So I really didn't know it well. I didn't have this sense of like, oh my gosh, I love that. In fact, I'm like, oh, that's that weird movie. But then I watched it as an adult.

[10:14] Ian Eisendrath: That makes me feel kind of weird inside, with like the new Santa Claus that pushes the kid down the stairs. Yes, exactly. But then I watched it as an adult, and I was like, quite charmed by it. We have the exact same experience here. And I started reading Gene Shepard. Did you really? Yeah. And I really loved the source material that it came from, listening to him. And my wife actually introduced me to Garrison Keillor, who I also didn't know growing up. And I'd sort of fallen in love with his Prairie Home Companion, especially the like Woebegone stuff. And I'm like, oh, wow, this is like that. And the musical could be like that.

[11:00] Ian Eisendrath: So then I was called, I was asked to do it. This would have been, I'm trying to remember the year, 2010. And I was probably approached in July, August of that year. And the first production was going to be happening in Kansas City, Missouri. I think it was, we started rehearsal in October. And it was one of those things where I was just sort of brought into the project. And it was like, here, go. And it was interesting, because the score was very intelligent, but very Sondheim, very sophisticated, with dissonance and a little bit of atonality. And I was surprised by that. But I was like, okay, this is an interesting challenge. And I remember how challenging it was to rehearse and get this music together. And then also, just coming into this world with a new director and choreographer team I hadn't worked with before. And they really had a clear vision for what the piece would be. And I don't know that the score necessarily supported that.

[12:07] Ian Eisendrath: But then we also had Larry Blank, who's legend. And he was the person that had recommended me and got me involved. And he and I were definitely, you know, partners in figuring this out in Kansas City. And then his work, you know, he wrote these gorgeous charts that really captured the era.

[12:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Orchestrator and arranger, Larry Blank.

[12:30] Ian Eisendrath: Yes, yes. And you know, his work is across so many shows. One of them is White Christmas, which had come out, I think, about two years before that, the stage musical.

[12:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Irving Berlin's White Christmas.

[12:45] Ian Eisendrath: Exactly, Irving Berlin's, yeah. And he gave it a little bit of this nostalgic, classic sound. And I was like, oh, this is what the show wants to be. And then what was interesting is we opened in Kansas City, and audiences ate it up. It was like, really, it was like, this is this, it felt, I'd done the Rocky Horror Show. And it felt like that. It felt like the audiences were there because they loved the movie. They knew the movie. And they wanted all these bits and all these moments. And yet, anyone who knows what a musical can do and should do, like the bones of this, the structure of this is so good. But it's not adding up. And the songs are certainly not landing. And the audience is not engaging emotionally in the music. And it doesn't feel like music that sort of emanates from the stars of the show's mouths who were kids.

[13:47] Ian Eisendrath: And it felt very sophisticated for kids. Composer, so talented, you know, it's nothing to do with that person's ability. It was just, it wasn't a match. I had a full-time job as the music supervisor and director of new work at the Fifth Avenue Theater in Seattle. And I, yeah, and I called David Armstrong, who was our artistic director. And I was like, you should just come see this, because I'd be really, really curious, you know, because Fifth Avenue and new musicals is what they were doing. And sort of being the final sort of smoothing process and sort of try out launch point, yes, for many, many Broadway musicals. And David and Bernadine Griffin, who was our managing director, came. And they, you know, were very perceptive. And David was like, look, this could be a hit. The bones of the show works. It just needs to be filled in with a brand new score. And

[14:46] Ian Eisendrath: And Jerry Gering, yeah, and Jerry Gering was our producer and the director. You know, everyone sort of aligned on that. And it was tough because it's also very unique to be like, we're actually going to move forward with the show. We're going to keep everything but the score. Yeah, but we love these moments and everything's working. So we need to find a team to recreate the score. And at that moment, they reached out to various agents and wanted to find, you know, the next generation Aarons and Flaherty that can sort of write character, write period, but give it a contemporary, very listenable and appealing vibe. And five or six different teams submitted, all very talented. It's funny because I look at the list and almost every single one of them that submitted demos now have major careers and are, you know, they absolutely are this generation's next voices.

However, it was very clear the second that Benj and Justin's material came in that that was the match. It fit like a glove. They were hired and they basically had six months to write a full brand new score that would start getting orchestrated, rehearsed and in previews on the Fifth Avenue's 2200 seat stage. And it was like a mad dash to the finish line. And basically we were trying to recreate the iconic moments, but with brand new lyrical musical content. And it was really interesting, you know, and they are tremendous. And it was we met and we really just hit it off. The funny thing is that we didn't know each other, even though the year that I graduated the University of Michigan that spring, they started that fall and we all have the same teachers, the same classes, the same background.

So it's very easy to work together. We're all story driven musical artists that, you know, are always going to be wanting the highest of musical quality, but character text and storytelling is of ultimate value and importance. And it was just a really, a really, really great match. And we had just a wonderful, wild time of staying up most nights till three or four a.m. during the rehearsal period and previews, working on all the rewrites and getting everything ready for the production. It was just it was wild. And then the other funny thing, which I look back on, it's like that was so crazy is the day after we froze for the very first out of town production. We recorded the cast album. OK, so this is where because as I was doing my research, reading the script, listening to the different recordings, whether it was the live version or this premiere recording, lots of changes.

Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's funny to look back on. It's like it's something I would never do again. And I would highly recommend against it because, of course, the show is going to change in a million and one ways before you find its ultimate version. But at that point, to everyone's credit, one didn't know if and how it was going to move on. There's a world that it could have gone into licensing or away to a nonunion tour or regional productions. I don't think Broadway was the obvious next step and it wasn't the next step. So we had a production the following year that was essentially a national tour that landed in Chicago. And so, again, that's a really nonstandard way to do things because we were rehearsing and prepping a show to go on tour, which we only have like a four week rehearsal process.

But really what we were doing was a version three point of the show with a different director, with a different choreographer, with brand new dance music, with some new set elements, a brand new cast. And so we did that. And the thing that happened for the show that, you know, we'll all be forever thankful for is it landed in Chicago and received amazing reviews. And that is what I think paved the way for Jerry Gering, our commercial producer and team to bring us to Broadway the following year.

[19:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And you open on Broadway in 2012, right?

[19:38] Ian Eisendrath: Yes. In time for Christmas for a limited engagement, the Lund-Fontanne. Yeah, it's a great time. And then Tony Award nominations come out.

[19:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: OK, that's a great story because I'm, you know, Christmas stories closed. It was seasonal.

[19:51] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, it was just awesome. And I remember I wasn't even paying attention to when Tony nominations came out, like not even on my radar. And I remember my wife comes running in my bedroom in the morning, our bedroom, and was like, Ian, Christmas story was nominated for Tony. And I was like, shut up. Like, you know, I thought it was like a joke. She's like, no, no, look. And we were all just stunned. And, you know, granted, there weren't a lot of shows that year. It's not just like the random design nomination. No, it's Best Musical. It was Score and Book. Orchestrations, I think. Yeah, Orchestrations and Book. And it was yeah, it was just delightful. And then it was like once again, that brought us all back together to create a Tony number.

Really challenging when you're not a running show. You know, everyone had left and just moved on with their lives and their careers. And so it was a challenge to get everyone back together. But it was it was thrilling. And I will forever be grateful because it meant that we got to see Caroline O'Connor on the Tony Awards. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that was really, really fun to see her come back. And because I think she returned to Australia at that point. So, you know, put her back. And yeah, that number is so amazing. And that number was the brainchild of John Rando and Warren Carlyle. Because John was like, well, what if we sort of do like a Bugsy Malone thing? And Warren's like, I've got it. I've got it.

And then Glenn Kelly, the very famous dance arranger, worked with Warren and created this amazing dance arrangement. And Benj and Justin obviously wrote an adorable, adorable, fun fantasy song. Oh, how exciting. And the show has only since I will say this. I love when shows don't need to be a huge Broadway hit, a huge wicked 10 year plus type run in order to then have, forgive the term I've already used, a launching point into their cultural impact because the show has continued to be performed all over the country. And I think that it's because it could have, you know, a limited run on Broadway, get some Tony nominations, get some acclaim and also give talented people like yourself an amazing platform to then go into the rest of their careers.

[22:14] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, no, it's something I'll be forever grateful for and cherish all those memories. So we're going to start at the top of the show and just talk through some of these beats because the show, like the movie, acts as a memory piece, right? It's about this narrator looking back on Christmas memories. And one of the things that I've really respected about the movie returning to it as an adult is how much and maybe this is where the discomfort came from when I was watching it when I was little, is how much of it is about accountability, about this adult person looking back on their mistakes, because Ralphie messes up a lot during, you know, this story. He lies about his best friend. He beats somebody up, you know, pretty badly.

He swears, you know, these sorts of things aren't necessarily things that we would see a child protagonist do. And yet, because the narrator is taking responsibility for them in both a humorous way and a loving way as well, you know, to almost like he's given himself a little bit of grace by being able to laugh at all of the mistakes that we make as children. And so I find that really beautiful.

[23:41] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah. And I think I love what you're saying. It's an interesting way of looking at it because I actually hadn't looked at it that way before. And I've always thought of it and I think these two ideas work hand in hand a little bit as a reconciliation of his relationship with his father and sort of understanding that as an adult and looking back on all the things that he did as a kid to win that love, to know that he was all right, almost looking at like the rollercoaster ride he went on, all the crazy hurdles he went through just to know he was loved. And, you know, and it's so relatable, too.

[24:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like an adult therapy session.

[24:32] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, exactly. But also to see sort of the fearless desperation of what it means to be a kid. And I think that's what you're saying is to own that, like, you know what, these were crazy, half-witted ideas. But first of all, they're very funny to look back on. Look at what I did. And then look at why. And I think what is so beautiful and funny about the Gene Shepard is that you have this kid playing out all these actions with the inner monologue of an adult who now understands what was actually going on, how the wheels were turning, but that it ends. And I'm sure you were wanting to wait to get to this. So I won't talk a lot about it, but just, you know, at the ending, he unpacks it as it was really just all about one simple thing. Had nothing to do with a gun. It had all it was is I just wanted to know that my dad loved me and that he was listening.

[25:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's things to learn here as both grown-up children and grown-up adults. You know what I mean?

[25:44] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah. Yeah. Who are all at the end of the day, at least a part of us, is a child.

[25:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is a child. And I think that's also what's so charming about it is we all are that dichotomy that we see on the Christmas story stage, which is the adult with the more sophisticated point of view and the kid who's just trying to know that he's loved. We're here, we're talking about this story and and the movie and how it can often be sardonic and morose and you turn it into a splashy musical and it's going to end up getting slicker like there's no way that it can't be. But I also actually am really down. I can speak as as a fan of this idea of turning it into a musical because nostalgia is never realism.

[26:34] Ian Eisendrath: Exactly. And in fact, the way, especially in the movie, the way that the writing and the things are played out is quite operatic because we're seeing it from a child's eyes. There's nothing greater. There's nothing more important than this one Christmas present, which is ridiculous. So when emotions are that strong. Hello, musical number. It's a great opportunity to translate into the art form. And this was a kid who lived in the world of fantasy. So, you know, so much of this is in his head and how he is perceiving himself or how he's perceiving what he wants to be, that it was just so easy to make a fast 180 into a Western number, you know, where he's this cowboy to this nightclub where, you know, he's going in a tux and with, you know, a little gangster with, you know, gangster balls and they're all being threatened and afraid for their lives to a gigantic Broadway, Bugsby, Berklee type number.

Like, yeah, it was that material. And even the film does go into fantasy as well. So it's very much like, OK, it's fantasy. It's a big musical number. And those aren't the only ways that musical was that music was employed. But it was so the invitation to blow up into gigantic musical numbers. That's the invitation.

[28:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Great way of saying it. So we're talking, of course, about the Parker family in the Parker family. You got Ralphie, who's our main main guy, may or may not he is the younger version of this narrator, Gene Shepard. And in the musical, there is a character named Gene who actually is the narrator, the narrator in the film. We usually only get to hear him, but he's a voiceover. And now this is, yeah, turned into a fully fleshed out character. Ralphie has a little brother named Randy, who we all remember because once he puts on a snowsuit, he can't put his arms down. They have a hardworking mother who has some really sympathetic material. Look, nobody does a second act mother number quite like Pasek and Paul. And they know how to do those.

[29:01] Ian Eisendrath: They know how to do those. Dear Evan Hansen has, of course, I think probably the best one. And there's a beautiful one in here as well. Yeah. And then we've got the old man, right? This father figure who is so essential to the story and they're getting ready for Christmas. Ralphie has decided that the gift that he wants more than anything in the world is greens, greens and nothing. No, it's it's an official Red Rider range model. Carbine action be begun with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time. And if you need.

[29:34] Ian Eisendrath: There wasn't any sort of inkling as to what the sense of comedy is with Gene Shepard's writing. It's right here. He feels so passionate about a thing that he can't even really describe. And it has this thing that tells time. Can Ralphie even tell time? We're not sure. But the point is, is that this rifle has it. This is what he wants more than anything. And the whole musical, or the whole story, really revolves around him planting this idea into his parents' brain to make sure that he gets it on Christmas. Did you have, in your childhood, any sort of thing like this? Not necessarily with Christmas, but just in terms of really devising a plan to get your parents to...

[30:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: This is going to be a disappointing answer.

[30:21] Ian Eisendrath: It's all good.

[30:22] Ian Eisendrath: It was never a thing. I feel like I have a good one.

[30:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, okay, you should answer.

[30:23] Ian Eisendrath: It was never a thing that I wanted. It was experiences that I wanted. So I was always like, I want to... Honestly, for me, it was like, I want to do these theatrical or musical projects. And the truth is, my parents were very aware and listening and loving, so I got to do them. And I knew that. But still, there was always that devising of like, oh my gosh, this is going to require my mom to drive me from one theater camp to the other. Like all that scheming. And then as I got older, getting the independence and permission to do things. I think that's more how I approached it. But I want to hear your story.

[31:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, but I'm also picturing little Ian like planning it out in his room. Like, okay, this camp ends at 3pm. We get in the car. We can 100% make it across town. For me, this one experience comes to mind. And it was... I'm from Utah. And in Salt Lake City, there was a national tour coming through of A Chorus Line. I had never seen A Chorus Line. I hadn't even really heard A Chorus Line. But I knew that A Chorus Line was something that I needed to witness as a child. I never did, by the way, because you probably don't take children to A Chorus Line. The point being is that I knew that the national tour was coming through. And I prayed a lot.

[31:49] Ian Eisendrath: I love it. I love it.

[31:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That my grandparents would just randomly call up. And I used the think system. I used prayer. I sat and looked at our rotary phone and pictured it calling or pictured it ringing. And I just knew that they were going to call and say, you know what, we found an extra ticket in our season subscription and we're going to bring you along. And I tried to drop all of the hints and boy, oh boy, did it fall flat.

[32:18] Ian Eisendrath: It's amazing. Literally, you had your Ralphie experience.

[32:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. I think that so much of the show is about this character on this mission. And it's like failed attempt after failed attempt after failed attempt. And then a total give up. The worst Christmas of his life.

[32:35] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah. There's nothing left to live for, truly.

[32:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then the sweetest, sweetest surprise at the end. But yeah, I still relate to that. And what's interesting in the process, and I really got to be involved with and lived through every iteration, was like, how do we get inside this character's head and establish the validity of this want? Because it's ridiculous. And it's so easy for an audience to judge, just to write that off and not be invested in it. And we went through many, many opening numbers. And it's interesting to look at the things that were tried and true in Evergreen. It was always important that we established that Christmas is the season of anticipation.

[33:00] Ian Eisendrath: Oh, that's so true.

[33:01] Ian Eisendrath: Gotta get it right. Because you only have one a year. And during the Depression, in the Midwest, it's the one moment when you could justify having a want or making your children or loved ones dreams come true, and that you would just stretch a little bit. So every time we did an opening number that was the least bit successful, you always established sort of the town of home in Indiana, the family, and finally Ralphie, and the idea that this is a highly loaded time of anticipation, and you only get one shot. And it's interesting, once Benj and Justin started writing the score, the idea of counting down to Christmas was a number. And it's funny that we went from counting down to Christmas, and I love this.

And I remember we were just having a brainstorming session. And I can't remember if it was Benj, Justin, John Rando, but someone was like, it all comes down to Christmas. That's the point. It all comes down. It's not about counting down. That's low stakes. It's the fact that everything in my life comes down to Christmas. And the song sort of found its final form with that.

[34:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that takes my mind so many places. Especially looking at how maybe Depression era was one gift, right? Whereas now, I think most of my nieces and nephews would be incredibly disappointed if they only got one gift for Christmas. And yet it's all based in the same thing, which is like, this is Christmas, we got to get it right. And we're also surrounded by this marketing machine that tells us we need more and more and more.

[35:11] Ian Eisendrath: Right. And it's what's interesting to me is as a kid, I looked forward to Christmas, but I was not having the Ralphie experience. I think it's just because I was really fulfilled doing the things I was doing. I had my issues and my pain, but it wasn't needing to get a gift. But it's interesting as a parent, I have three kids, and I'm so aware that I have really less than 14 shots, probably more like 10 by the time they're old enough and before they become teens that are a little bit wiser. I have 10 shots to make my kids' fantasies come true. And then I also have this son, Charlie, who it's so funny, because I've not thought about this till we just started this podcast, but he's 10 years old.

And there's times that we almost like, judge him for being like a little bit entitled or materialistic, because he really thinks about, you know, I just really, really want this thing, and he becomes consumed with it. But I'm all of a sudden like, oh, that's so sweet. And I know that it's like he wants this thing because he thinks it's going to complete him. And it's just this childish, in a positive way, innocent, naive place that one day he's not going to be there. And it just makes me want to just cherish it and not get him every single thing he wants. But really, those listening moments where you can make their dreams come true, you only have a few. And I think that's... Dang, I learned something about being a parent today. Thank you.

[37:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, because I love that. It's not about getting them what they want. It's about making their dreams come true. And I think that if you're right, if you listen, you probably have a better chance of doing it.

[37:07] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, and you want to, because you know, they're facing hard things, they're going to face hard things. And you really want to give them these experiences where they feel seen. And I think that is what it's about. And like, I also, I don't know, like, for me, one of the most heartbreaking moments, and I remember it being a kid, but then also seeing it on my kids, is when they receive something, and it's not the thing that they want. But then you see them sort of struggle through to not be disappointed. So as to not be greedy, entitled, or rude at the end of the day. And it's funny, because I'm just remembering that that's what happened to Ralphie.

[37:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, you know, he, his dad sort of played a trick on him. And he didn't get it. He didn't get it. And he had to sort of stiff up or lip it through all of Christmas.

[38:07] Ian Eisendrath: It is a little bit like a Charlie and the Chocolate Factory thing where he passed the test when he didn't get it. He didn't, you know, he doesn't throw a fit. And in fact, maybe that was passing the test.

[38:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, no, I totally that's what made him the character deserving of taking on the Chocolate Factory. It's funny, too, because I'm realizing as we're talking that, I think almost every year, if not every year, I always do a misdirect as a Christmas gift. In fact, it's like, this year was borderline mean. My daughter, like, she was so clear about the things she needed, and she wanted. And I really set her up to not get it. But then she was thinking, like, Dad does this every year. And then I really delivered a gift that was like, what do you call it? Like a...

[39:04] Ian Eisendrath: Oh, sure. A red herring sort of thing.

[39:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Red herring. That's a red herring. And so I watched her be like, Oh, my gosh, I've been so clear all year about this thing that I actually need. And my dad got me this. And it was like an experience. And it was like a promise. I promised to take her to Harry Potter on set experience in London. And it was very viable as a thing that she would love. But it was absolutely not what she asked for. And I literally watched her be like, Yeah, you just like really didn't listen to me and pretend to be like, Thank you, Dad. And then I gave her the thing. And, you know, I remember my wife was like, that is so mean, like, like got mad at me for doing that.

[39:43] Ian Eisendrath: Like, that's a little too much, babe.

[39:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I know. But I think I got it from Christmas story. I think it's just like, it's planted from all these years.

[39:50] Ian Eisendrath: I know, I've conducted the show too many times.

[40:01] Ian Eisendrath: So in the show, there are obviously so many great iconic moments in these little chapters that come up throughout the show and throughout the story. But some of the musical numbers that I have to point out that I think are just absolute are my absolute faves. Ralphie to the rescue.

[40:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, I think that is perfection.

[40:22] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah. Yeah. So it's like Hollywood cowboy fantasy. Magnificent Seven. It's got that whole sound.

[40:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[40:29] Ian Eisendrath: And, and when Ralphie is picturing himself as, you know, the Wild West, hero of the Wild West.

[40:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And I'll never forget the first time we sang Justin's vocal arrangement and rehearsed. Get him cowboy, cowboy Ralphie. You know, it was like that sort of swoony period vocal with the...

[40:55] Ian Eisendrath: Yes.

[40:56] Ian Eisendrath: You know, groove underneath it. And then seeing everyone doing this country western, you know, Hollywood choreography. It was just, that is a number. And that's like, those moments where you just know, okay, this is a thing.

[41:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: This is a thing. Completely agree. Love that number. The thing that the adults always keep saying to Ralphie about wanting this gun is that he'll shoot his eye out. And that he's, you know, too young to be trusted with a BB gun, which I'm sure is incredibly triggering.

[41:29] Ian Eisendrath: Right. And it's like, very fair. But yeah, it's basically saying, You're not big enough.

[41:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I feel like he hears it. It's not like you're not big enough, but you're not worthy.

[41:38] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah.

[41:39] Ian Eisendrath: You know, I think that it's like, yeah, you can handle that. You've improved yourself. We don't trust you. And that's the most deflating thing to hear.

[41:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it really comes with a position of power too, because there are these bullies at school that are absolute terrors.

[41:56] Ian Eisendrath: His teacher.

[41:58] Ian Eisendrath: There's all these people that are not seeing him, that are judging him unworthy, that are diminishing him. And while it's all done through the Gene Shepard, cynical, sardonic humor lens, we all can relate to that.

[42:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I think Ralphie's father's going through something similar. He's always seeking for some sort of power and feeling empowered in his life. He's putting all of his energy into this crossword puzzle contest, because that'll make him feel special amidst the furnace constantly breaking down and the car breaking down and all of these little things that are the dogs next door who are always barking at him.

[42:47] Ian Eisendrath: He has a hard life, right? Like, there's a world on his shoulders.

[42:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He is such a sort of classic, like, 40s, blue collar, stereotypical.

[42:58] Ian Eisendrath: But like, yes, you're right. He's going through the same thing of like, feeling like one of the masses and needing to be special.

[43:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think that's the beauty of this thing, is that like, like father, like son, the father's going through a very similar thing, having a similar level of fantasy that I'm going to be the genius.

[43:16] Ian Eisendrath: Yes.

[43:16] Ian Eisendrath: Like, I'm not going to be seen as someone that's just-

[43:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Genius on Cleveland Street is the-

[43:20] Ian Eisendrath: Yes, which I love.

[43:22] Ian Eisendrath: So funny. The Peter Pan moment kills me every time.

[43:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, I'm trying to remember that we went through many, many different things for what that was. But it's interesting, because I just think I knew people like my wife's grandparents, even like that were very much sort of working class, world on their shoulders, but knowing that they have this genius within and that, you know, one day, I think it was-

[43:50] Ian Eisendrath: Everybody will finally see it.

[43:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, I'm going to invent this thing and they will try to invent it. And I'm going to all of a sudden be seen for who I am and my future will transform. And for the old man, he actually does end up winning a major award, as the song is called, from this crossword puzzle contest.

[44:11] Ian Eisendrath: And the prize is this hideous leg lamp.

[44:14] Ian Eisendrath: It's the infamous leg lamp from A Christmas Story.

[44:20] Ian Eisendrath: Which when you think of the time period, right? This like stalking leg lamp in the front window of the home. You're like, what on earth is going on inside that house? Well, it's just like, it's the sheer hubris and ego and need to be seen as special that like, you know what? I'm absolutely not going to face the reality that this is a joke. And maybe not a good idea. Yeah, but I think it's so much about the fact that I need this thing to be a beautiful treasure that I've just won. And so I am just going to fully commit and like, just fully go with the fact that this is a piece of art, and this is going to transform our lives. Ergo, the leg lamp is the BB gun.

[45:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, exactly. It's the same thing. It's the same thing.

[45:17] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah. And once again, just like Ralphie is imagining himself in this Western fantasy, old man is imagining himself in this classic 1940s musical number with a long kick line of beautiful women.

[45:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, with these legs. Yeah, it's wild. It's wild.

[45:39] Ian Eisendrath: It gives a new meaning to the term kick line, right?

[45:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yes.

[45:50] Ian Eisendrath: In the second act, we have You'll Shoot Your Eye, which we already talked about, but the teacher who Ralphie thought might be on his side, that he wrote this paper about what he wanted for Christmas. And he thought, well, even if my parents don't think I am speaking from a place of reality, then at least my teacher will catch the vision and be able to tell them. She completely disagrees and gives him a C plus, and then we get the great number, You'll Shoot Your Eye, which is another fun fantasy sequence for him.

[46:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The triple dog dare is another of my favorite moments in A Christmas Story, and it's also played out here in the musical where the young boy, what's his name? Is that Schwartz who does that?

[46:40] Ian Eisendrath: No, it's Flick.

[46:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A triple dog dare, he was Flick.

[46:44] Ian Eisendrath: Yes. Flick. There it is.

[46:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[46:46] Ian Eisendrath: Flick gets his tongue stuck to the pole.

[46:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Where did you grow up? Did you grow up in the cold?

[46:51] Ian Eisendrath: No, I grew up in Olympia, Washington, so I was very tempered.

[46:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, gorgeous.

[46:57] Ian Eisendrath: I, once again, grew up in Utah, very cold. I love in this musical how there's the one little monologue for the narrator about, oh, it's when they're putting on the snowsuits and getting ready to go to school.

[47:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[47:08] Ian Eisendrath: And because in California, if it dips below 60 degrees, you're like, oh, I need my scarf, and maybe we should cancel the whole day.

[47:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[47:17] Ian Eisendrath: But when you live in winter, you just get a snow shovel when it's time to go to work. You don't get to not go to work just because there's three feet of snow on the ground. Life continues, and I love that that is talked about here in a very real way.

[47:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And it's funny, I got to know that because I went to school in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

[47:40] Ian Eisendrath: Oh, gosh.

[47:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I remember being shocked by like, wait, I have to walk in this? Like, they expect us to go outside? Like, there's one day it was so cold that I literally started crying when the wind ripped in my face. And I was like, aha, this is just wrong.

[47:55] Ian Eisendrath: So I definitely connected to that. But yeah, that moment on the flagpole, I actually just really, really love the lyric, a sticky situation. And so much fun because the double entendre is fantastic. And that's just a really fun number. And that's one that like, that's not fantasy, but it still lives out in a musical world where all of a sudden you have everyone who's embroiled in this chaotic crisis.

[48:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, crisis.

[48:29] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, and it kind of shows the counterpoint and cacophony.

[48:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yes.

[48:34] Ian Eisendrath: And it kind of shows that kids can be dicks, but in like the most innocent way. Because they've totally abandoned their friend out there and are wanting, figuring out what lie maybe they need to tell so that they don't get in trouble. But like, which is kind of like I said, a dick move. But they're kids and they're just trying not to get in trouble, which seems to be their only job.

[48:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As children, we just are not supposed to get in trouble.

[49:02] Ian Eisendrath: And it's Christmas.

[49:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because if you get in trouble, then you're not going to get your thing.

[49:06] Ian Eisendrath: Oh my gosh, on top of it all.

[49:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're so right. You're so right.

[49:11] Ian Eisendrath: I think that was one of the reasons I didn't like the movie growing up. Because I remember that scene made me so uncomfortable.

[49:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which, because you're just so up close and seeing this kid.

[49:20] Ian Eisendrath: You are up in there, that's so true.

[49:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's like, I never want to see that. And it just looks painful. And my favorite moment in the musical is you're in a scene and everyone is sitting at their desks. And out of, you know, far in the back upstage, you're seeing this kid just sort of flailing about on the flagpole and everyone's ignoring it. Like, I just, that brought me continual joy.

[49:48] Ian Eisendrath: That's amazing.

[49:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, all of this chaos has taken a toll on Ralphie. And he finally can't take it anymore. And he takes it out on the bully.

[49:57] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah.

[49:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's a really sobering and kind of beautiful scene. Because there is no victory in Ralphie beating up this kid. There's no, he did it. And now he's a man, you know. It's, he's crying, the bully's crying. Everybody just has all of these feelings that they don't know what to do with.

[50:21] Ian Eisendrath: Well, they've all been like reduced to vulnerability.

[50:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[50:24] Ian Eisendrath: And I love that. And it starts as a comic scene, you know, with him saying gibberish like his old man does. But then all of a sudden you break into realism and real time beating him up. And Ralphie starts crying. The kid starts crying. And his mom shows up.

[50:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And a beautiful moment.

[50:44] Ian Eisendrath: And it's something I'll always be grateful to my mom for. It's like, I always feel like she took my side. And, you know, the mom tells all the kids to go home and sort of gives everyone the proper stern parental response. But then rushes to Ralphie's side and brings him home.

[51:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then sings my favorite song in the show.

[51:03] Ian Eisendrath: Just like that. And like trying to teach him in, you know, 11-year-old appropriate language. That when these things in life feel impossible, remember that the moment will go. And that you'll be on the other side of it. Something that I still don't, you know, as an adult I still don't remember, you know. But I think she's really teaching him that important lesson of like, you've just got to allow the pain. And trust that you will get through this.

[51:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And get past this. And she partners with Ralphie to not get caught. And I think there's something so beautiful about that. She's sort of a co-conspirator.

[51:41] Ian Eisendrath: Because even she sees that.

[51:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How hurt he is.

[51:47] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah. And that this is not the moment for old man to give him a dressing down.

[51:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And oh yeah.

[51:54] Ian Eisendrath: I love it. And I just love that song. I'm not sure there is a more important lesson for us to hear right now. Whether it's as children or adults. That our feelings are important.

[52:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And are always temporary.

[52:07] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah.

[52:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's so true.

[52:09] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah. It can be both.

[52:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It can be both.

[52:11] Ian Eisendrath: Yep. It can both.

[52:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I agree.

[52:13] Ian Eisendrath: I agree. The other favorite song of mine is the title song, Christmas Story.

[52:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: At the end.

[52:19] Ian Eisendrath: Absolutely.

[52:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh.

[52:20] Ian Eisendrath: Like it's just gorgeous. And I think it's just, you know, you go through this whole up and down experience. And you end with him receiving this thing after all. And like you are just, you're so relieved. And you're so touched.

[52:39] Ian Eisendrath: And then Jean Shepherds as an adult.

[52:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As an adult.

[52:43] Ian Eisendrath: I think just really sums up, you know, the fact that this was the most memorable Christmas. Because it was the pain that led to the breakthrough. That basically let me know that my dad loved me. And that at the end of the day, that's what it was all about. Love.

[53:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And you know this text of what a Christmas story to behold. A crazy Christmas story to be told.

[53:10] Ian Eisendrath: And it just sort of sums up the idea of nostalgia. And that like the highs and the lows. The light and the dark are what create this beautiful memory. That, you know, he'll never forget. I think we all have those memories. The moments when we look back and see how our parents loved us.

[53:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[53:34] Ian Eisendrath: That you don't understand until you're an adult.

[53:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That you don't understand.

[53:36] Ian Eisendrath: Exactly. It's like until you're in their shoes. Whether you're a parent or not, it's just like you suddenly understand. Oh, wow. They were dealing with all of this. And this is, yeah, what they did for me.

[53:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[53:50] Ian Eisendrath: Ah, so fun.

[53:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: See? I feel so good now. My heart is full. Thank you, man. I loved revisiting that. Because I really haven't thought about the musical for... You know, we did the live television experience.

[54:05] Ian Eisendrath: And that was in 2017.

[54:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's been a minute.

[54:10] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah.

[54:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We've been through a lot in the world. And look, I don't know. You know, it's tough right now because you have a show that is centered around a boy wanting a gun.

[54:20] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah.

[54:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The last thing we want to put out in the world right now. And I don't know what will happen with it. But I do think that it's really interesting to explore like what the show is really about.

[54:32] Ian Eisendrath: Good point.

[54:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Great points, in fact. And even from... This is probably even a much longer conversation than we have time for. But looking at the approaches that you needed to shift once you came to the live TV event.

[54:47] Ian Eisendrath: Oh, yeah.

[54:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Simply because of the cultural changes.

[54:51] Ian Eisendrath: And that had only been a few years since you had written it, right?

[54:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So since they had written it.

[54:55] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, the world changed those five years.

[54:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But I mean, I've got to say, I don't know, and I could be totally wrong. But it feels like the amount of change we saw in those five years doesn't compare to the amount of change that we've seen in the five years since.

[55:12] Ian Eisendrath: Absolutely.

[55:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Or has it been five years? Or am I making up?

[55:15] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, five.

[55:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah.

[55:18] Ian Eisendrath: And look, it's exactly 10 years ago that Christmas Story this year was on Broadway. So it's like, what would we do today if we were recreating that musical for today?

[55:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't know that you even could.

[55:36] Ian Eisendrath: But for the live television experience, there was responding to the change in the world. Also to the incredible actors cast. But then I don't think people realize how much of that change was driven by the fact that we were doing this live across multiple stages and locations on the Warner Brothers lot.

[56:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so it's like, all of a sudden, you literally had to plan that Maya Rudolph is going to go get in her golf cart, and they're going to drive her to the next stage, which means the transition music or material needs to be expanded by one minute. And we need something there that's going to hold the audience's attention. Like, it's funny, the things that were driving all of that.

[56:25] Ian Eisendrath: And literally, the actors were, I mean, I can't believe I look back at it. It's like, it's just crazy. They were in real time, doing like what we would do in a film shoot across 60 days or more, you know, like, okay, we're going to shoot this on this stage, get in the golf cart, go, go, go, go to this stage. And then we need you to walk down the street. And then we're going to cut to this stage. And the whole thing was so carefully choreographed. And music, of course, becomes completely at the mercy of the timing required to pull this off.

[57:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[57:02] Ian Eisendrath: Wow.

[57:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, congratulations. Regardless of how you feel it went, that's a feat unto itself, just to get it done.

[57:10] Ian Eisendrath: Yeah, no, it sure was. And again, it was a crazy Christmas story. And like, that's the thing that like, every single year of a Christmas story, it's what a Christmas story to behold, a crazy Christmas story to be told. It's just true, you know?

[57:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow.

[57:27] Ian Eisendrath: Wow.

[57:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast at gmail.com. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and Twitter at amusicalpodcast. We've also got Patreon! Where for only $1 a month, you can receive bonus content.

[57:48] Ian Eisendrath: Oh, there's a Tee Public store that we're now donating all of the money to Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS.

[57:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, there are so many wonderful ways to connect with this great podcast community that you all know I am incredibly grateful for. Hey, Ian, how do we follow you? Anything you're up to? Anything you want to plug?

[58:07] Ian Eisendrath: My Instagram is ianisendrathmusic. I'm on Facebook, I have a website, ianisendrath.com. And I really look forward to everyone checking out Spirited and La La Crocodile, which will be both released this fall and more to be revealed.

[58:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, can't wait. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Congratulations on all of your success. And thank you for being a part of our musical theater heritage.

[58:39] Ian Eisendrath: Thank you so much for having me. This was really fun.

[58:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Everybody, thank you for listening and go have yourselves a crazy Christmas story to be told.