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[0:00] Unknown speaker: Everybody get ready for this. There's a lot of sex talk. I mean, I oh, yeah disclaimer. Yeah, there's like

[0:06] Unknown speaker: We're gonna be talking about sex. You know what listener? It's a thing people do it

[0:11] Unknown speaker: Yeah, let's let's just give like a quick birds and the bees. Yeah right off the top, you know

[0:16] Unknown speaker: Are we explaining what sex is? Is that what's happening? Two people love each other. It doesn't matter what gender

[0:22] Unknown speaker: they are

[0:24] Unknown speaker: When two people people love each other very much for a lifetime or an afternoon when

[0:28] Unknown speaker: when

[0:31] Unknown speaker: When your chemistry reaches a point where you can no longer ignore your hormones when this summer night smiles at you

[0:38] Unknown speaker: Unexpectedly when the moon looks a certain way when the moon is in the seventh house

[0:46] Unknown speaker: Anyway when two people look at each other across the way and they're both bored and have already eaten lunch

[0:51] Unknown speaker: And the stairs, you know last longer than three seconds. Yes, but not like me and jeffrey are doing right now

[0:56] Unknown speaker: This is sustained eye contact. Yeah with actual conversation actual conversation. This is a fake conversation

[1:04] Unknown speaker: When two people love each other very much sometimes their bodies match together the two skeletons match together. Yes, and

[1:11] Unknown speaker: Physically something weird happens and then they both shower and go home and then feel bad about themselves

[1:17] Unknown speaker: Yes shame and and that's the birds and the bees and to be honest with you joking aside

[1:22] Unknown speaker: A lot of what little night music is about is um, some of the complications and baggage that comes with sex agreed

[1:28] Unknown speaker: So learn from it children

[1:31] Unknown speaker: Teach the children teach that children

[1:33] Unknown speaker: So

[1:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the emotional

[1:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And cultural impact of some of our favorite shows in musical history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons

[1:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You can call me Jeff and today we are talking a little night music. It's our first Sondheim show. Can you believe it?

[2:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's crazy, it's our first Sondheim show that we're covering I'm excited that it's little night music and I'm really excited that my guest

[2:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is Tom Zohar?

[2:09] Tom Zohar: Hello

[2:10] Tom Zohar: Hello, thank you. Hello. I'm practicing my nbr. This is your podcast voice. Yes

[2:15] Tom Zohar: I can't quite get low enough

[2:16] Tom Zohar: Isn't it sad like my voice will not go into my chest in any significant way?

[2:21] Tom Zohar: My voice naturally just goes up into my cheekbones and I can't I don't know bone structure. I definitely well, thank you

[2:29] Tom Zohar: I tried

[2:31] Tom Zohar: Uh, okay

[2:32] Tom Zohar: I remember when I first reached out to you about what show we wanted to cover. Yeah, and you mentioned a little night music

[2:39] Tom Zohar: Yeah, and I immediately

[2:41] Tom Zohar: Referenced the first time that I came to know of the show which was I was in junior high

[2:47] Tom Zohar: And I was in a car with my friend shout out to Katie Pace from Willard, Utah and we're in the car

[2:51] Tom Zohar: And I think you must mean my wife came on one of her mixes that she had in

[2:57] Tom Zohar: Playing in her cassette tape player really dating yourself

[3:02] Tom Zohar: And and I was like, oh, what's this show from and she says a little night music and I said, what's that about?

[3:07] Tom Zohar: And she thought for a beat and then said sex

[3:11] Tom Zohar: I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, so then we were listening to the song and then

[3:15] Tom Zohar: Uh, the next song was a track from Candide and once again, I said, oh, what's this from?

[3:20] Tom Zohar: And she said Candide and I said what's that about? She goes actually this one's about sex too sex and jewelry

[3:26] Tom Zohar: Which I guess they both are kind of

[3:28] Tom Zohar: So then I I tell you that story. Yeah, and you

[3:32] Tom Zohar: Do you remember what you said to me after that? Please remind me

[3:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It was my favorite and you immediately replied with all entertainment that we think of as elegant and refined is actually about rich people

[3:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Trying to point absolutely. Yes. Yeah, and pretty much anything. I don't know

[3:46] Tom Zohar: There's something about rich people and their privilege that allows them to worry about who they're sleeping with that feels

[3:53] Tom Zohar: detached from reality. It's privilege as I know it

[3:57] Tom Zohar: Yeah, like privilege can be defined by how much you think about who you're going to sleep with. I mean in some ways

[4:03] Tom Zohar: We still have that going on. Some of it has to do with class system. Some of it has to do with looks

[4:08] Tom Zohar: I don't know. I feel at least in our community

[4:10] Tom Zohar: Going on, you know what? I mean, or it's like I want to be with someone but like

[4:15] Tom Zohar: you're gonna need to send me a nudie first. Exactly. Yes

[4:18] Tom Zohar: Yes, and if they if they did a little night music nowadays, it'd all be taking place on Tinder and Grindr

[4:24] Tom Zohar: You know just be text messages a series of texts for a long time

[4:27] Tom Zohar: I thought it would be really funny to do a little night rock music

[4:31] Tom Zohar: And do it. It's a horrible idea

[4:33] Tom Zohar: But that's why it makes me laugh and just like modernize it and set the same score to like rock music

[4:38] Tom Zohar: Oh, and I thought it would be so stupid. But what if it's so stupid that it would work?

[4:44] Tom Zohar: So if anyone's listening to this and want to try it out just and maybe reach out to Mr

[4:49] Tom Zohar: Sondheim and see if he's so desperate at this point that he'll want to try it

[4:53] Tom Zohar: I just think it would be a terrible idea, but it might be a terrible idea that could work because it's so bad

[4:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Do you remember?

[5:00] Tom Zohar: Look, we're already in the theme of the show with all this remember

[5:04] Tom Zohar: Do you remember back in the day?

[5:06] Tom Zohar: Columbia House or BMG

[5:09] Tom Zohar: With the catalogs of CDs, do you remember this? I think so

[5:12] Tom Zohar: Yes, you would join you would join the club and they send you CDs, right?

[5:16] Tom Zohar: well, they would send you this like packet of all of the

[5:22] Tom Zohar: Albums or CDs that the recording company owned and then you

[5:27] Tom Zohar: Had to choose eight

[5:30] Tom Zohar: CDs that you could get for the price of one

[5:33] Tom Zohar: So by joining the club you paid for one CD

[5:36] Tom Zohar: You'd get eight for free and then you had to agree to buy two at a discounted price later on. Oh

[5:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's clever. I did it twice

[5:45] Tom Zohar: Okay

[5:46] Tom Zohar: I feel like I did it once with each of the

[5:49] Tom Zohar: Companies that were doing that so that I could get as many cast albums as I could

[5:53] Tom Zohar: And a little night music was one of them. Oh

[5:56] Tom Zohar: Along with like Vanessa Williams kiss of the spider woman cast album just like the strangest things

[6:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But that's the day you said I'm gay

[6:04] Tom Zohar: This is it. Nope. That's no no, it was it was another

[6:08] Tom Zohar: Good 15 years before that one

[6:11] Tom Zohar: But it's a little it just it helped solidify it come on Vanessa Williams just helped solidify it

[6:16] Tom Zohar: Vanessa Williams was like

[6:19] Tom Zohar: She was colors of the wind at that point. Absolutely

[6:21] Tom Zohar: So it was like a step closer to Disney the more Vanessa Williams that I had in my life

[6:29] Tom Zohar: Anyway, we're deviating. Oh, no, no. Oh, yeah, right when I watch Vanessa Williams play Desiree. I um felt yes

[6:34] Tom Zohar: Am I just did I just come up with that amazing casting idea?

[6:38] Tom Zohar: Maybe I think you just maybe changed the face of musical theater. I want to see that production now

[6:45] Tom Zohar: Vanessa if you're listening Brian Stokes Mitchell as Frederick. Oh my god

[6:50] Tom Zohar: And I'm sure he's played it before right? I would hope so

[6:53] Tom Zohar: I think I wouldn't know if Vanessa Williams have played Desiree before and then like Felicia Rashad as my god

[7:00] Tom Zohar: Why?

[7:02] Tom Zohar: Why aren't we doing this podcast down we are flying to New York?

[7:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't know where the people just if if the people who manage the people we were talking about are listening

[7:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Make this happen and credit us and give us money. Holy crap. I'm shaking. This is so good

[7:19] Tom Zohar: quivering imperpetual

[7:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, good job

[7:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Uh, okay. We can't we got to get away. We got to get away from Vanessa Williams right now

[7:28] Tom Zohar: This is what she does. She does she grabs onto you and you don't let go. Okay those blue eyes

[7:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I want to begin by talking about

[7:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How the show came about? Yeah, I always talk about she loves me and I promise I don't try to but it comes up yet

[7:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Again, she loves me 1964

[7:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's the first show that Harold Prince how prince directs

[7:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like he steps outside of his producer plate and directs that show to much critical success

[7:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: and

[7:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He and Stephen Sondheim were obviously

[8:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: collaborators having worked on West Side Story together

[8:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: so now he's looking for other properties to direct and

[8:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: one of the ideas that he has is to do a musical version of

[8:13] Tom Zohar: What what ring around the moon exactly? Yep. Now don't ask me what the playwright's name is. It's very french and weird

[8:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is a very french name and I'm I'm not no good at french. Yeah, but uh, this was a

[8:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: kind of a well-known play it's still produced. It was produced in San Diego very recently. Yeah, and they did a Broadway revival of it with Mary and

[8:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Celadas

[8:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's just it's kind of along the same lines, right rich people

[8:39] Tom Zohar: Yeah

[8:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I mean it's it's a it's a love farce about rich people and poor people kind of mingling together

[8:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the poor people coming in with a plan to try to take over the house in some ways

[8:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And this is all in very general terms

[8:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it does have similar themes of like the people who should be together are not together

[8:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Ended up together and it does have kind of the you know, the magical matriarch who is kind of sassy

[9:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: in a wheelchair

[9:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Giving like the great one-liner and then being wheeled off. It's a fun little lark

[9:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So they reach out to the writer. Yeah, or at least the lawyer who is overseeing the property

[9:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And they refuse to let them have it

[9:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: To musicalize so they're like, oh, they're like seriously, uh, do you know who we are?

[9:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So so then they move on

[9:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And long story short too late what they land on is Ingmar Bergman's film smiles of a summer night

[9:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, Ingmar Bergman, of course a legendary filmmaker

[9:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Uh that I'd say most people in America don't know but are probably the name

[9:43] Tom Zohar: Influenced by right. Yeah. I mean when you hear a Bergman film, you have a very specific idea of what that would be

[9:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So he's a type of filmmaker who really changed how films look in terms of cinematography

[9:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Close-ups the way that he films close-up. They always talk about a Bergman close-up and smiles of a summer night is

[10:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Beautifully shot really beautifully shot. Yeah, I mean it's funny

[10:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Legitimately, there are some lines in the in the movie that are not even in the musical. They're very very funny

[10:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But it's shot beautifully. That's great. I don't know that I've ever watched a movie

[10:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Fully in um Swedish

[10:15] Tom Zohar: But literally after a while all you hear is

[10:18] Tom Zohar: Like it's literally how it sounds. It's Swedish chef from um from the Muppets

[10:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's surprisingly accurate and I sound like a rube right now. I have not I don't have a lot of Swedish

[10:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: people in my life, so

[10:30] Tom Zohar: But it's kind of funny like well, you were born you were born in Israel

[10:33] Tom Zohar: So I think you're you're giving a pass on a little farther away from

[10:37] Tom Zohar: From Sweden that I'd like to be but yeah, it's a lot of that and then every once in a while you'd hear

[10:41] Tom Zohar: um

[10:42] Tom Zohar: Desiree says like she says a whole sentence and it ends with brunda brunda brunda Frederick Egerman

[10:48] Tom Zohar: And it's just it's just so delicious the way that you it really is though the way they use the language and the names

[10:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So now I kind of want to see a production of little night music in Swedish. Oh, wow

[10:59] Tom Zohar: I'm wondering if it's I don't know I'm sure it's been done, but I haven't found anything. I know that when

[11:05] Tom Zohar: When they did the German

[11:06] Tom Zohar: production of a little night music

[11:09] Tom Zohar: It's the only time that they actually used the title of the Bergman film

[11:13] Tom Zohar: Because you can't because it would have been Eina Clan and which is which is Mozart

[11:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So can you imagine people buying tickets to Mozart and then they show up and

[11:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah and Petra's humping

[11:27] Tom Zohar: They'd probably be okay with it

[11:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They'd probably they're probably like well this kind of fits

[11:35] Tom Zohar: Why do you think why do you think he didn't call it smiles of a summer night? It was a Bergman asked

[11:40] Tom Zohar: Really oh because he didn't want it to be too much like the that was the only that was his only

[11:47] Tom Zohar: Request is that when they did the musical version that they changed the title which was fine because Sondheim already knew that he wanted

[11:51] Tom Zohar: to call it a little night music. That was what he was going to call evening primrose

[11:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which was this like TV musical that he wrote for Anthony Perkins, right?

[12:02] Tom Zohar: Were there I'll take your word for it where they're like it's it takes place in this. Um department store

[12:10] Tom Zohar: and then he finds out that kind of

[12:05] Tom Zohar: Like Jordan Peels us there are there's this whole civilization of people living at the department store

[12:10] Tom Zohar: Behind the walls and like they come out at night anyway, and they've never been outside

[12:16] Tom Zohar: The guy falls in love with the girl and then and I remember sky like that famous song. Oh, yeah

[12:22] Tom Zohar: Anyway, that was supposed to be called a little night music and then they decided to name it after the short story on which

[12:28] Tom Zohar: It was based which is evening primrose. So he already had this title that he loved and it fit perfectly for the show

[12:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: no, it's great and it

[12:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I I don't know that I ever completely until now understood where that title came from but it does work

[12:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's perpetual night sort of I mean

[12:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's funny because the Bergman movie has nothing to do with that

[12:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They that was one of the few things they put into the musical that did not come from the movie

[12:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The movie takes place over several days. It doesn't have anything to do with the sun not setting

[12:55] Tom Zohar: I love that they inserted the whole idea of the sun not setting in it, too

[12:59] Tom Zohar: Some of the best lyrics in the whole musical come from that whole concept, but amen

[13:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay Bergman much to his credit agrees for his property to be musicalized

[13:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: before that however

[13:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sondheim and Hal Prince work on several other shows all of which are

[13:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: you know legendary company follies neither of which however were huge financial successes

[13:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Company and follies both didn't make a lot of money. So then

[13:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: at least according to Hal Prince his next goal was to have a financial success

[13:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Always a good goal to have right?

[13:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: especially since follies was so magnificent and lost so much money I'm sure I'll do a follies episode, but

[13:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: it was at the

[13:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Same time as two gentlemen of Verona, which was like a rock version of Shakespeare. Yes

[13:47] Tom Zohar: And you're like, oh, you know, there's obviously this counterculture type thing that a little difficult to figure out

[13:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Musical theater in the 70s was a little strange a little rough

[13:57] Tom Zohar: I mean in all honesty and we just talked about with a friend of ours

[14:00] Tom Zohar: this week about how without Sondheim the 70s would have been

[14:03] Tom Zohar: a lot of forgotten rock musicals mostly truly. I mean Sondheim

[14:08] Tom Zohar: If you think about the 70s musical theater, you usually think about Sondheim.

[14:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, you're absolutely right.

[14:13] Tom Zohar: The year that A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC came out, the other big show was Pippin.

[14:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So you had all of the—and I mean, it is probably Hal Prince's fault—but you had these shows that had a real artistic point of view based on the director choreographer, you know, kind of from a conceptual place.

[14:30] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[14:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Pippin is not a really well-constructed musical.

[14:35] Tom Zohar: No, no, I agree.

[14:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know, it's a fine show, but it also requires this really deft hand at how you're going to be doing the storytelling.

[14:41] Tom Zohar: The concept is crazy.

[14:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's very out there.

[14:47] Tom Zohar: So you have projects like that all throughout the 70s. Pippin being a successful one. And then up next to it is A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC, which is beautifully crafted.

[14:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And yeah, exactly. With a really accessible storyline, delicately told and funny if you do it right.

[15:06] Tom Zohar: There's an ease to it.

[15:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: There's an ease to the intellect.

[15:10] Tom Zohar: Yes, yes, yes. Which fits with the show, because like I always say that to me, A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC is like a really greasy, yummy cheeseburger wrapped up in Swarovski crystals.

[15:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's like the center of it is very like love and sex and rolling around in the hay. And all these things are happening that essentially kind of like fit inside of a sex farce.

[15:36] Tom Zohar: But it's presented in this sumptuous kind of beautiful, classy veneer that actually really fits it. And that's what makes the show special. I think that it's both.

[15:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So maybe this is kind of a return to a more traditional structure for both of them, but also for the 70s.

[15:54] Tom Zohar: Yes. Where then they're like, all right, well, let's take a step. I don't want to say backward, but a step toward the more traditional and see what we can bring to it.

[16:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think that the show still feels very fresh and pushing boundaries in some ways.

[16:08] Tom Zohar: Well, it's a score. I mean, honestly, I would give most of the credit for that to the score. The fact that the whole thing is in some shape or form in three-quarter time.

[16:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't know that that's been done before.

[16:19] Tom Zohar: So again, honestly, in an alternate universe where someone else scored whatever Smiles of the Summer Night ended up being as a musical, I don't think it would have been a successful musical because it wouldn't be as special.

[16:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Agreed. So the book writer for A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC, his name's Hugh Wheeler, and he later wrote the script for Sweeney Todd as well.

[16:38] Tom Zohar: I think this was their first collaboration together, though. And he wrote his version of the book and Sondheim said that when he read it, he felt like it was too straightforward, especially coming out of Company and Follies, which were more conceptual.

[16:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He felt like it was kind of boring and didn't like it. And he said that his mentor, there's this woman that he always goes to, kind of like a Madame Armfelt, who always gives him great advice.

[17:07] Tom Zohar: And what she said was, yes, this is straightforward and maybe a little outside of your preference, but it will give you an opportunity to really step up your pussy.

[17:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It will give you a little night music.

[17:21] Tom Zohar: Step your pussy up a musical.

[17:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[17:25] Tom Zohar: But just to really show people what you're made of. It's more of a challenge.

[17:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, more of a challenge. Which, again, I think is why the score, to me, sounds very... It's a different Sondheim score.

[17:35] Tom Zohar: And Sondheim also has a lot of little melodic things he does that he loves to do in almost every show that he does. And they don't really exist in A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC.

[17:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I remember when Into the Woods came out, Tina Fey and Amy Poehler hosted the Golden Globes that year. Do you remember this?

[17:51] Tom Zohar: I think so.

[17:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And they had this great Sondheim joke where Tina Fey turned to Amy Poehler and said, "Hey, hey, Amy, have you ever performed Sondheim?" And she goes, "No, I haven't. But I could. Anyone can."

[18:06] Tom Zohar: Yes, exactly that.

[18:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[18:08] Tom Zohar: And that is...

[18:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Amy Poehler said it better than me.

[18:10] Tom Zohar: Yes, absolutely. No, but you're right. That is missing from the score.

[18:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, because there's something more legato.

[18:18] Tom Zohar: It's such a... I sound so smart right now. It's just a little more melodic. Like I said, it just feels more... I don't know. It's like a warm kind of melodic feel to it, where a lot of Sondheim, even the best Sondheim feels a little colder.

[18:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So...

[18:33] Tom Zohar: Okay, I'm dying to talk about the story. So let's just jump in.

[18:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, stop yelling.

[18:38] Tom Zohar: I'm so excited.

[18:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, let's do it. Picture this, a bare stage, a piano. A person, usually dressed really well, comes in, plunks down on the piano, goes la-la-la-la-la-la-la, and an overture starts with a quintet.

[18:54] Tom Zohar: It's a quintet, right?

[18:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, it's...

[18:56] Tom Zohar: And they all have names too, which is impressive.

[18:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's all Boringen, Jorgen, and Moningen, Flemingen, and yeah. Mrs. Something, Mr...

[19:03] Tom Zohar: Erlandson.

[19:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We got Mr. Lindquist.

[19:06] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[19:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mrs. Anderson, Mrs. Segstrom, Mrs. Nordstrom, not to be confused with the department store.

[19:14] Tom Zohar: She's the one who created the department store.

[19:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's the sequel.

[19:16] Tom Zohar: Evening Primrose was based on.

[19:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. And Mr. Erlandson.

[19:21] Tom Zohar: And I think I could be... This could be so wrong. I think they're named after some of the people who were involved with Smiles of a Summer Night.

[19:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that's nice. Don't email me or at me if I'm wrong. It doesn't matter. Just enjoy this tidbit, whether it's right or wrong.

[19:35] Tom Zohar: It should be right if it isn't. Thanks.

[19:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So they come in. They're vocalizing, and their vocalizing becomes the overture of the whole show, which is really, really fun and introduces the audience to the style of the show.

[19:52] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[19:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which feels like a little night music.

[19:55] Tom Zohar: Wait, that should be the title of the show.

[19:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which feels like a kind of an operetta.

[20:02] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[20:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Or a song cycle concert.

[20:04] Tom Zohar: Which is why so many opera companies do it.

[20:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because they should.

[20:09] Tom Zohar: They absolutely should. But what's interesting about that is that it's not... I mean, the show is not really an opera.

[20:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: If you follow the rules of what an opera is.

[20:17] Tom Zohar: Absolutely. And I would even venture to say that one of the reasons I love this show so much is that the score and the script complement each other so well.

[20:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[20:27] Tom Zohar: I love listening to the music, but I'm not as satisfied with the music without those delicious book scenes.

[20:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I agree. And if I were to sit down and read the script, I would be wanting the...

[20:39] Tom Zohar: It's tough.

[20:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The waltzes.

[20:40] Tom Zohar: To not have it. They really do complement each other so well.

[20:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is interesting because if you look at the 2009 recording of the revival that Catherine Zeta-Jones did, they put a lot of book scenes in that recording.

[20:52] Tom Zohar: And when I listened to it at first, I was like, why did they do that? And I thought about it and was like, oh, because it all fits together really well.

[20:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Great. So the overture happens. Then my old lady with the wheelchair.

[21:02] Tom Zohar: She comes in.

[21:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And she is with her granddaughter.

[21:05] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[21:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And she is... Her name is Madame Armfeldt.

[21:09] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[21:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She used to be a courtesan. She got her fortune because she played her cards really well.

[21:17] Tom Zohar: Yeah, she climbed socially. She's playing cards constantly. One of the big themes in the whole musical is set right here in this first scene between the old and the young.

[21:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The theme of cycles, of time.

[21:32] Tom Zohar: Yeah, time. These kind of phases in our lives where you have... She says, she tells the young girl, the summer night sky smiles three times. Once on the young.

[21:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Once on the fools.

[21:45] Tom Zohar: Yeah. And then once on the old.

[21:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The old.

[21:47] Tom Zohar: And Halperin said that the musical is about time. He said it's about wasting time. Which, once again, is such a perfect match for the score, which is all based in waltzes, three-four meter in time.

[22:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So you got time there. You've got the idea of night. Um, and then all of these characters that represent phases of life.

[22:12] Tom Zohar: She is a source of wisdom.

[22:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. She's not necessarily a source of warmth.

[22:17] Tom Zohar: Well, at the beginning.

[22:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure. Although I wish she was my grandmother.

[22:23] Tom Zohar: Like, I wish. But I think sometimes, like, we love that about old people.

[22:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[22:27] Tom Zohar: They just say what they want to say. Like, I've lived everything, so I don't need to worry about your feelings.

[22:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[22:34] Tom Zohar: You know, and listen to what I'm saying, not to how you're feeling. There's this great line that the same that Madame Armfeldt has in the movie and Smiles of a Summer Night where she says, "I'm so bored of people. I wish I didn't love them so much."

[22:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, I'm like, oh, me.

[22:51] Tom Zohar: Oh, same. Yeah, I just. I love people, but sometimes I just want to be around my dog.

[22:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. Also, there's something very drag about Madame Armfeldt. She's like high drag.

[23:01] Tom Zohar: Oh, yeah. Just like it's just the tea is being spilled and the shade is being thrown.

[23:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And oh, my gosh, I can't wait for somebody to do Madame Armfeldt on Snatch Game.

[23:09] Tom Zohar: Some nerd out there in a small town does Madame Armfeldt to an audience of two and just lip syncs to "Liaisons."

[23:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Honestly, I want you to do it, Jeffrey.

[23:18] Tom Zohar: No, absolutely not. I can't pull off the wig, my skin tone.

[23:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The next thing we go to is the house of Frederick Eggerman.

[23:27] Tom Zohar: Yep.

[23:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is that right?

[23:28] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[23:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Frederick is a middle-aged lawyer who has lost his first wife and has remarried a young, young woman.

[23:38] Tom Zohar: Yes. They've been married for 11 months. She's still a virgin. They haven't consummated that relationship yet.

[23:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No.

[23:46] Tom Zohar: To complicate matters even more, he has a son who's only a year older than the bride herself.

[23:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So now she's like his new mommy.

[23:56] Tom Zohar: And that's very weird. And he's like a whole ball of existential crisis. He's very angsty.

[24:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And he has decided to deal with his feelings of angst and confusion by essentially going to priest school.

[24:11] Tom Zohar: Yeah, he's in the seminary.

[24:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's what it is. Thank you. I'm a Jew. I don't know how it all works.

[24:16] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[24:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. He's studying in the seminary, but at the same time is also like everyone else in the show, horny and no idea what to do with it.

[24:24] Tom Zohar: Well, he's also deeply attracted to who is now his mother, essentially. And he ends up sort of letting a lot of them out or trying a lot of things out with Petra, who is willing and totally consenting to all of this.

[24:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Petra is the maid.

[24:39] Tom Zohar: The maid. And she's a pretty horny gal.

[24:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She is self-assured and sex positive is what we'll say, because it's true.

[24:49] Tom Zohar: Oh, that's good. She is.

[24:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you. She is just a few years older than Anne, so they have kind of an interesting connection there, but they could not be more different in terms of their views on sexuality because Anne is very nervous about it.

[25:01] Tom Zohar: And some of it, I'm sure, has to do with repressingly not realizing that she's with the wrong person.

[25:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's also 1900 Sweden.

[25:10] Tom Zohar: Yes. So it's, you know, I guess it maybe wasn't that weird at the time. I don't know. But yeah, I mean, they have a whole conversation about that.

[25:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So they ended up married, I think almost just because they both felt like it was a necessity. I don't know. Like he was supposed to be remarried.

[25:21] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[25:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And she might as well be someone who's beautiful and young.

[25:28] Tom Zohar: Yeah, exactly. That's a relatable story, I think, to a lot of people. And then she no doubt has the what else is she supposed to do? It's kind of also like I'm sure it's kind of a father figure. And that's partly why implicitly she has not had sex with him.

[25:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And she keeps saying later, later, later, she has a song about it. Spoiler alert. And he's actually, in his defense, being very patient and not being creepy about it, which I'll give him credit for.

[25:58] Tom Zohar: But of course, you know, everyone involved is frustrated, even if they're not really realizing it. They have this great trio of songs. There are three songs that just then happen to go together.

[26:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the first one belongs to Frederick.

[26:13] Tom Zohar: And it's called Now. Once again, going back to the theme of time, right? All three of these songs now, later and soon, all related to time and revealing where they are in their lives.

[26:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So Frederick talking about now he wants to have sex with this girl.

[26:29] Tom Zohar: Yeah. And trying to figure out how to and how to do it, make it happen. Because there's like this uber masculine side of him that thinks I should just take her and ravish her because that is what a man does.

[26:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But wait, that wouldn't work.

[26:41] Tom Zohar: But then also he's middle-aged. And so there are some insecurities that come out.

[26:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I love so many of the lyrics in the show that I feel like I... That song has my favorite, which is he's contemplating maybe just sitting in the nude. And he says that might be effective. My body's all right, but not in perspective and not in the light, which again, me. Same.

[27:04] Tom Zohar: It's just it's so good. Because once again, he's feeling this pressure, for lack of a better word, to be a man.

[27:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And yeah. And but then at the same time showing, oh, but am I good enough?

[27:17] Tom Zohar: Yeah. You know, like that.

[27:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, and also they're both deeply, deeply aware of the age difference. And she calls him dear old Frederick all the time.

[27:26] Tom Zohar: So he decides to take a nap instead.

[27:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Like any middle age might as well nap.

[27:30] Tom Zohar: Yeah. Like this isn't going to happen. I'm stressed out. I'm just going to take a nap.

[27:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. So he's trying to take a nap. Meanwhile, his son, Henrik, is practicing his cello being angsty with the cello.

[27:41] Tom Zohar: Yeah. Oh, why don't we do more of that angsty, angsty cello moments? People need more of those channel our angst and anger into string instruments.

[27:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He also there's something very with the way you hold a cello and do things with it. And the way he's sitting with it, you could look into that somehow.

[27:59] Tom Zohar: That's true. I'm just going to say that.

[28:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's a good—there's something about it.

[28:02] Tom Zohar: And then that song also has that big crescendo, which sounds climactic.

[28:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm just saying.

[28:09] Tom Zohar: Yeah, no, there's a lot. Someone thought about that when they crafted it.

[28:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wait, are you telling me the show's about sex?

[28:16] Tom Zohar: Okay, I'm just talking about that. Okay, I'm sorry so because he's practicing the cello and very protective of her sleeping husband because at least then she doesn't have to have sex with him. Yeah runs out and says Henrik stop with all of that racket stop with playing your cello. Yeah, do it later. Yes, then brings in his song which is how everyone's always telling him later. It seems like he's just waiting to become something but he doesn't know what it is and nobody else seems to know what it is either and yet they all expect him to be it. Well, it's he's he has so many questions, but he feels like everyone just goes later. Go away. You're an annoying kid. Which I, you know, I recognize growing up and feeling like that too.

So my favorite lyric in this song because I've felt this so often as I've often stated. It's intolerable being tolerated. So good screw tolerance. Yeah, I want to be accepted and loved and it's intolerable being tolerated. Okay, so then that gives way to and solo which is called soon. Yeah, which is gorgeous. She's a beautiful song now, let's talk about her because Sondheim as great as he is his cynicism comes through most with his ingenue characters. Yes, he very rarely makes them as well-rounded as everyone else.

[29:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Uh, okay.

[29:42] Tom Zohar: Keep going. No, I'm curious. I think when you I think I see what you're saying example, Joanna. Yeah.

[29:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, Joanna.

[29:53] Tom Zohar: It's almost like, you know, sometimes when we look at Romeo and Juliet, we're like they're so stupid. Yeah, you know when they completely forgot about everything. Yeah, we stopped being smart human beings when we fall passionately in love with people and I feel like that there's a thread of that always with his lovers in his stories. I mean going back to Follies. There's something sad about seeing the lover so innocently and earnestly connecting with each other knowing how they're going to end up. Yeah, it's a comment on how that will not last. Yeah, there's an yeah, there's the inevitability of breaking apart of nothing last nothing stays gold. Yeah, you know, so I was trying to think okay and Anne is kind of a silly character. She's a silly person. I don't want to say she's a silly character, but she's she starts out definitely as a frivolous person who is very surface surface level. Mm-hmm. She talks mostly about earrings and clothes and everything. That's true.

[30:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then you sent me a clip of Laura Benanti playing her and Laura Benanti.

[30:59] Tom Zohar: Oh, is that if she's listening? Oh, I was if I've always said she has to explain it every time. Oh, really Benanti whenever we talk. Yeah.

[31:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's Benanti.

[31:04] Tom Zohar: Yeah, she's like a banana. Yeah, I heard an interview with her where she explained it. Okay, everyone in case I'm calling her Benanti. It's not Benanti. It's Benanti.

[31:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So Lara Benanti, Lara, but Lara Benanti is such an intelligent actor.

[31:20] Tom Zohar: Yeah, she's always playing these ingenues and then bring like a level of comedy and intelligence that you don't often see and you sent me one with Anne and I was like, oh, this is a different take on the character. Does it still work does it work for and to be this intelligent and also, you know the same person who wouldn't sleep with her new husband for 11 months?

[31:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think it does if you look at soon as a song to me. It's a song about someone very carefully and kind of knowingly calculating what her place in that world is. Mm-hmm. I mean she says I promise I want to I won't shy away and then she gives out all those reasons why it's perfect for them to be together and why she's the perfect wife because she's withholding a little bit. I feel if I was perfect then you tired of me but this is someone who's sitting in front of a mirror looking and calculating again not in a negative way what her place in that world is and how she fits into it on what she needs to do to make sure that she doesn't end up doing something she doesn't want to do which I think it's actually pretty smart.

[32:26] Tom Zohar: That's great. Oh, that's lovely. I love I love all of the things I agree to and of course she ends up where she ends up in the show again, it's not like she suddenly grows up to be Madame Armfelt level intelligence, but she learned something she has to learn something. So she starts from a specific place and ends up somewhere different.

[32:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, good. And when the night smiles on the fools, she is not one of them.

[32:47] Tom Zohar: No, it's the old folks.

[32:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah, like the middle-aged folks.

[32:54] Tom Zohar: Yeah after now later soon we meet Desiree Armfelt, right?

[32:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, and desert talked about her a little bit and Freddick excellent accidentally says her name when he's napping which sends an into a tizzy because we later find out they've had a tryst like Frederick and Desiree had a whole fling happening before he lost his wife finding an and finding an so there was a little interim time when Frederick and Desiree had a thing going on and it almost seems like the one that got away.

[33:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[33:23] Tom Zohar: But without them realizing it because they were just in completely different places in their lives and Desiree is an actress who tours around and doesn't stay put and the tour that she is currently in is coming to you know, wherever they are. We're in Sweden. Yeah to the city where Frederick and Anne live. So that's how we meet Desiree is coming into town to do this to do her play.

[33:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She's a celebrated actor and the glamorous life is the song that kind of introduces her lifestyle, which I think is so smart. It's it's such a good song. There's a level of humor to it. Mm-hmm because it's called the glamorous life and yet it's revealing how unglamorous it is. I send a hallway youngish admirers which one is that one every time our thing like wolfing down a sandwich?

[34:11] Tom Zohar: Unpack the luggage la la la pack up the luggage unpack the luggage and I'm not in the end.

[34:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I sing it in my head every single time. I'm out of town and I'm like, all right here we go again with the luggage. Am I going to unpack and put it in the hotel room or maybe I should just live out of the suitcase because it's yeah, you know.

[34:27] Tom Zohar: Yeah, it introduces that kind of lifestyle that she's leading which at the time with a young daughter out of wedlock was unusual and it's also most of the things that we hear from her are letters that she's writing to her daughter and it's always like I'm so sorry. I'm a terrible mother got a run.

[34:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think another one of the great themes and explored in the show is the sacrifices that one makes in your personal life when you're an artist.

[35:00] Tom Zohar: Mm-hmm, you know, because you're an incredibly talented person thank everyone that I talked to agrees and yet you've taken a step back from performing as a profession.

[35:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, yeah, I mean, I got a day job and then kind of got very seduced by paid vacations and health insurance.

[35:10] Tom Zohar: Yeah, I took a step back. I mean to talk about it personally. There was a long time when I was doing a lot of theater which was great, but also doesn't pay enough unfortunately, and we really struggle that with region.

[35:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[35:31] Tom Zohar: And so you you doesn't pay enough and I ended up taking a lot of jobs and some of them I wasn't really that passionate about so for me personally, and I think everyone does things differently of course personally for me when I got the opportunity to step back a little bit and we're talking about like I mean, I've been doing theater for a long time so for me later in my life now that I'm 35 it made more sense for me to step back from it a little bit which spoiler alert is kind of I think implicitly what Desiree does by the end of this show she chooses to maybe be around her family a little bit more but I know everyone should everyone should do whatever makes them happy, but I understand that I get it.

[36:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: This is a personal question, but are you happier now?

[36:19] Tom Zohar: Yes. Yeah, I am. Yes, of course, of course. You know, it's not like I don't wish I could do more theater especially if I could do more projects that I care about. Yeah, but absolutely. I'm happier now. I remember specifically a lot of times when I was doing more theater because I had to do it because I didn't have any other source of income besides like doing graphic design on the side that's unrelated there were a lot of times where I was anxious and felt burnt out and not happy and a little frantic.

[36:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So health insurance health insurance.

[36:52] Tom Zohar: Yeah. Well, it's just like I feel I feel calmer and happier now for sure, but um, you know, it's nice to be able to still do it.

[36:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's for sure and it feels more special which is kind of nice.

[36:59] Tom Zohar: Oh, that is nice too. But so I am Desiree. I'm trying to say the other thing about right the other thing about the that song specifically that I think is brilliant is that we learned a lot about her relationships with the people in her life in a very like short period of time because it's one song you learn so much about her relationship with her daughter and her mother because that's that's tumultuous.

[37:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, so madam arm felt the older lady basically took the daughter away from her because she was in yeah, she was the daughter was on tour with her mom, you know going living this.

[37:36] Tom Zohar: Yeah, and the grandmother made up both of their minds and said this is not good for her. She's gonna come and live with me.

[37:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mm-hmm.

[37:44] Tom Zohar: So that right off the bat is the source of you know contention not to mention that these are two very strong women with with a lot of history and are constantly butting heads, so Frederick gets tickets for he and and to go see the play.

[38:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, they're sitting in their box seats the play is happening Desiree's on stage and she locks eyes with Frederick.

[38:09] Tom Zohar: Mm-hmm, and notices it freaks out it, you know causes even more insecurity because now maybe her plan to you know use her sexuality to figure out her life isn't going to last, you know, there's a it's a ticking time bomb now so she creates a scene and makes Frederick take her home.

[38:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, we can then fast-forward to I guess we can go to the dressing room then right?

[38:33] Tom Zohar: Yeah, cuz he takes her home and then leaves so he takes her home.

[38:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, he takes her home and they sort of almost catch Henrik and Petra having their little thing because while this is happening Petra is very gamely trying to teach Henrik the ways of you know sex and life and Henrik is trying to make things happen with Petra.

[39:03] Tom Zohar: Disastrously poor Henrik poor poor Henrik couldn't even make that happen.

[39:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So then Frederick drops off and at home and then goes back to the theater he goes to the theater to Desiree's dressing room.

[39:10] Tom Zohar: So what essentially at that booty call?

[39:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[39:16] Tom Zohar: Yeah, he shows up. Oh my gosh we haven't seen each other in forever. Yes, please sit down have a drink. Mm-hmm. By the way, I'm married.

[39:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh really? Then why are you here?

[39:26] Tom Zohar: Oh, well, but you should meet her. She's wonderful.

[39:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She's fantastic song and this is a true scene song, you know is wonderful. He reveals she's fantastic. She's wonderful. But also we haven't had sex yet. We've been married a year record scratch, right? Are you kidding me? She's a monster.

[39:43] Tom Zohar: Mm-hmm to cut to the end essentially like how about giving me one for all time?

[39:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, so for all time sake do you mind if we have sex and she's like absolutely what our friends for again, who amongst us hasn't had that situation happen to them?

[39:58] Tom Zohar: Okay, so yeah as he has told her that he's married.

[40:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mm-hmm.

[40:04] Tom Zohar: She tells him I'm not married, but I am sleeping with this guy who is married.

[40:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mm-hmm.

[40:09] Tom Zohar: And the Dragoon and he's this military guy. He's basically guest on yeah.

[40:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, same exact basically. It's the same character and he it's this really bizarre side of chivalry where he almost feels like he's doing everyone a favor by having both a wife and I'm taking these women are pitiful and poor and look I'm allowing them both to suck my and yes. Yes amongst other things.

[40:38] Tom Zohar: And this weird double standard of this one of them ever tries to to to cheat on me boy double standard.

[40:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, so he comes back into town right after they've finished. I don't know if they finished this isn't passion we don't see them fucking in the beginning. So we just don't know it.

[41:08] Tom Zohar: Well, I mean, what are we in 1994?

[41:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So he comes into the dressing room catches them both in robes they have to create this crazy story as to why they're naked why he's in a world wearing his nightshirt basically, right?

[41:20] Tom Zohar: So the story that they come up with is that since he's a lawyer, he's always been mad arm felt the mother's lawyer.

[41:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mm-hmm.

[41:26] Tom Zohar: He came to get some paper signed. He falls into the bath so then he has to get out of his wet clothes in order for them to dry and that's why that's why he's there and that's why they're naked and meanwhile, you know the what is his name so we can just call him by his name?

[41:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Malcolm.

[41:45] Tom Zohar: Magnus he's got like five names Magnus Malcolm count count Olaf Morgan it's I know that it's Malcolm.

[41:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[41:56] Tom Zohar: Call Magnus Malcolm.

[42:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, yes call Magnus Malcolm.

[42:06] Tom Zohar: Okay, so Carl Magnus CM Carl Magnus he doesn't believe it for one second he's gonna buy I mean he buys it sort of he buys it enough to I think have sex with her.

[42:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, no, what ends up happening is he asks the lawyer to leave he's they love I'm here now so you can go.

[42:19] Tom Zohar: Yeah, so he and he does and then he like stays with her. I'm like, well, he does I'm thinking about like poor Desiree.

[42:26] Tom Zohar: Oh, she's doing fine. I mean, she doesn't care. In the Bergman movie, it's very clear that she thinks the whole thing is hilarious.

[42:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Also, even in the musical, if I'm not mistaken, there's that great moment where she brings out his clothes and they're soaking wet.

[42:38] Tom Zohar: And it's like, why did you actually... why did you have to soak my clothes? Like, you're really selling the story, but to my detriment.

[42:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. This isn't helping anybody. God bless. The next thing we see is Carl Magnus going home to his wife, right?

[42:54] Tom Zohar: Yeah, because he's married to Charlotte Malcolm.

[42:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Who we all love. I love me some Charlotte.

[43:00] Tom Zohar: Because she's just dry as bones.

[43:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She's dry. Sassy, smart. And you're like, why on earth would you be cheating on this woman? She seems like everything.

[43:09] Tom Zohar: She's amazing. Well, and by the end of the show, he kind of realizes it thanks to her machinations.

[43:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure. She deserves better than him, that's for sure.

[43:17] Tom Zohar: But he sings his song that's... and it's basically just him, like, rationalizing women's place in the world while also obsessing about what the heck was going on in that room.

[43:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Why was a lawyer there? He mentioned papers. Where were the papers? She couldn't do that to me. She wouldn't do that to me. Blah, blah, blah. Just very toxic masculinity.

[43:37] Tom Zohar: Yeah. Hashtag toxic masculinity.

[43:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. Who says this show isn't relevant? Hello.

[43:43] Tom Zohar: No one.

[43:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No one. He tells his wife what went down. It's really interesting that they have... It's like an open marriage.

[43:50] Tom Zohar: It's an open relationship.

[43:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But only open from one side.

[43:53] Tom Zohar: Yes, exactly. He tells her exactly what went down.

[43:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. She's like, oh, no, that's terrible because my little sister's best friend in school was Anne, you know, the new wife.

[44:05] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[44:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I should probably go have lunch with her and let her know so that she finds out from someone who cares about her instead of some, you know, gossip.

[44:12] Tom Zohar: Exactly. Even though really she's spilling the tea, but sure.

[44:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure. They go to lunch. She tells Anne about the hip bath.

[44:21] Tom Zohar: The hip bath.

[44:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Anne is, you know, devastated, of course.

[44:25] Tom Zohar: Mm-hmm.

[44:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which allows Charlotte also the opportunity to finally open up about how unhappy she is about her own marriage and her life.

[44:35] Tom Zohar: And they both sing Everyday Love.

[44:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We're getting redundant, but it's such a good song.

[44:41] Tom Zohar: It is. It's a beautiful song.

[44:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think the most actually the most beautiful song in the score.

[44:45] Tom Zohar: Also, this is a tangent, but one of three songs in the score that are a deceptive waltz.

[44:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It doesn't sound like a waltz.

[44:53] Tom Zohar: He got very creative.

[44:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. This song, weirdly enough, now the first song and Weekend in the Country are all songs that if you just listen to them sound like they're in 4-4.

[45:04] Tom Zohar: But if you actually look at the music, it's in 6-8.

[45:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it doesn't sound like a waltz, but it is. It's crazy. Sometimes crazy.

[45:12] Tom Zohar: What I love about Everyday Little Death is that it's a song about love and marriage. And yet it's called Everyday Little Death.

[45:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, and fun fact, a little death in French means orgasm.

[45:23] Tom Zohar: In case you're wondering.

[45:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Did you know that?

[45:25] Tom Zohar: No, I didn't.

[45:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Le petit morte is what the French call an orgasm.

[45:29] Tom Zohar: Is a little death.

[45:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Wow. Again, it's a show.

[45:33] Tom Zohar: Oh, my gosh. Sometimes the French drive me crazy.

[45:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. Me too. Get over yourself.

[45:38] Tom Zohar: Those French.

[45:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So pretentious.

[45:40] Tom Zohar: I know. I hope no one French is listening to this.

[45:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We love you, France. Le petit morte.

[45:44] Tom Zohar: I mean, I'll go to a bakery anytime.

[45:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We'll go to, you know what? We'll go to Au Bon Pain.

[45:51] Tom Zohar: We'll still go there.

[45:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I have a Le Pain Quotidien.

[45:55] Tom Zohar: Le Pain Quotidien.

[45:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right next to me.

[45:57] Tom Zohar: Bread a day.

[45:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's beautiful because it's talking about how, I mean, we hurt each other in marriage.

[46:03] Tom Zohar: All the little ways.

[46:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All the little ways that kind of chip away at our souls when we open ourselves up to being loved.

[46:10] Tom Zohar: And as a married man, I can assure you that is true.

[46:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And to quote Next To Normal, like, that's the price of love, but we pay it.

[46:20] Tom Zohar: Yeah. You know?

[46:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Is Next To Normal basically the same musical as Little Night Music? Discuss.

[46:24] Tom Zohar: Has Alice Ripley played Desiree Armfelt?

[46:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Alice would be amazing.

[46:29] Tom Zohar: She'd be great.

[46:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. I'm sure she's done it. I wanted to see it for a long time. I just really wanted to see Emily Skinner as Petra.

[46:35] Tom Zohar: Oh, she still could.

[46:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You think she could still do it?

[46:39] Tom Zohar: I think she could.

[46:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Petra?

[46:41] Tom Zohar: Well, no, she has to be a specific age.

[46:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're right. That would be another great Armfelt.

[46:45] Tom Zohar: Emily?

[46:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Well, they could alternate and no one would notice the difference if they do it right.

[46:50] Tom Zohar: Because they still get confused for each other all the time.

[46:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, maybe Vanessa wouldn't want to do the full eight shows.

[46:55] Tom Zohar: Vanessa probably wouldn't.

[46:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She's busy.

[46:57] Tom Zohar: She's busy.

[46:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So maybe Emily would take over, you know, matinees like Donna Hershey.

[47:01] Tom Zohar: We're now having three different people play.

[47:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a great role. It needs three different people.

[47:06] Tom Zohar: Has Rachel York ever done it?

[47:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No. I don't know. I ask because the Desiree in the Bergman movie looks exactly like Rachel York.

[47:12] Tom Zohar: Really?

[47:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's all I can think about the entire time.

[47:14] Tom Zohar: Just like seven feet tall.

[47:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Seven feet tall. Her face with like that great strong jaw. I don't know.

[47:20] Tom Zohar: Okay. I'm texting Desiree a podcast about Jeffrey Scott Parsons and Tom Sawant.

[47:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, this makes me happy.

[47:28] Tom Zohar: Okay. Every Day of Little Death ends. Then, oh, and we skipped liaisons.

[47:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, we didn't, did we? It happens before Every Day of Little Death?

[47:36] Tom Zohar: It does. It happens as they're getting busy in the dressing room.

[47:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'll take your word for it.

[47:42] Tom Zohar: Yeah. Okay. So when they're having their liaison, then old lady Madam Armfelt comes out in her chair to talk about how the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

[47:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Because of how people fall in love these days.

[47:58] Tom Zohar: Sex used to be this fun way to move up in the world.

[48:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it used to be transactionary and now everybody's falling in love when they have sex.

[48:07] Tom Zohar: And it was so much better when it was transactionary and you ended up with a mansion and all the lovers that she's had, which actually the way that she describes it sounds really fun. So good for her.

[48:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's also really fun to just hear an old lady like that. Because you would think that somebody like that would be stodgy and rigid about morals.

[48:27] Tom Zohar: That's what's great about her character. She's like, no, y'all are being too serious about this. Like, just have sex and get what you need out of it. It's a pleasurable means to a measurable end.

[48:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I saw the Catherine Zeta-Jones revival, or should I say the Angela Lansbury revival, where Angela Lansbury was playing Madame Armfelt and was a total masterclass.

[48:49] Tom Zohar: Talk about someone who's just completely in control of their craft. And it was just a joy to watch somebody like that work on stage.

[48:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Here's the thing, though. The song Liaisons is when I'm reminded that I'm a small town boy because my mind always wanders.

[49:06] Tom Zohar: It's okay. I will be sitting there and I'm thinking, oh, I'm going to really pay attention to this song this time. And every single time my mind just goes, Jeffrey, you're not alone. Don't feel bad, please.

[49:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But honestly, though, like it never ends. And then suddenly it does because she literally falls asleep because she's bored.

[49:23] Tom Zohar: Exactly. I mean, it knows it's self-aware enough to know that she keeps getting lost. Where was I? Where was I? Where was I? Yeah.

[49:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But he rhymed liaisons of the reasons.

[49:34] Tom Zohar: And you know what? Kudos. So kudos.

[49:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So smart. OK, the original Madame Armfelt was Hermione Gengold, who is Redicent. She's the original, you know, Mayor Shin's wife in the film version of Music Man and is, you know, kind of pure camp.

[49:52] Tom Zohar: Who she is in one role is who she is in every role.

[49:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, the personality.

[49:56] Tom Zohar: Yeah. And hilarious. And, you know, body in a way, in her very British way. And she really wanted to come in for the production and Sondheim thought she was completely wrong for it.

[50:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Based on her type and the and the and her character.

[50:11] Tom Zohar: Yeah, it's like it's like that. We're supposed to believe this woman was a courtesan, you know, and a courtesan shot.

[50:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And are you proud? That's funny. Anyway, but but he let her, you know, he's like, all right, well, but she's who she is. She should absolutely come in and audition.

[50:31] Tom Zohar: Yeah, she comes into audition. She doesn't have a song prepared and they're like, oh, well, you're going to need to sing. Sondheim wrote five of these songs in rehearsals.

[50:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So he didn't have a full score because he wanted to know who the actors were. He said, OK, I'm going to at least need to hear you sing something so I know your range.

[50:50] Tom Zohar: So she's saying this old like a musical musical.

[50:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. So she's saying this old musical song that was very charming. And then she did the the scenes which were very charming, but he still didn't think that she was right.

[51:03] Tom Zohar: And she goes, thank you all for letting me. Actually, I'm going to read it. Please. I want to know.

[51:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Perfect. She thanked us for allowing her to audition against our better judgment. Not that anyone had told her such a thing. She had merely assumed we would think her wrong for the part.

[51:17] Tom Zohar: She then added, I noticed that in the script, Madam Armfeld is 74 years old. Coincidentally, gentlemen, so am I.

[51:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I also noticed that when she dies at the end, the stage direction indicates that her wig slips a bit off her head.

[51:32] Tom Zohar: Well, and with that, she lifted off her wig, revealing herself to be completely bald.

[51:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As the clang of three jaws hitting the floor died away, she thanked us once again and left the stage. And we decided to give her the part before she left the theater.

[51:46] Tom Zohar: Ladies and gentlemen, she literally snatched her wig off.

[51:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And there wasn't another wig underneath.

[51:52] Tom Zohar: Right. Drag race queens who do it now owe it all to Hermione Gingold.

[51:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's right. Isn't that phenomenal? That's the best story I've ever heard. I'm going to start doing that even though I don't have a wig. I'll get one. I don't care.

[52:07] Tom Zohar: Now we're getting into A Weekend in the Country, which is the Act One finale.

[52:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is the best Act One closer before Defying Gravity.

[52:14] Tom Zohar: There was A Weekend in the Country and there was Defying Gravity.

[52:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I saw a production of Low Night Music where I gave them a standing ovation and a termination because of how good their A Weekend in the Country was.

[52:23] Tom Zohar: Really?

[52:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Shout out Sigma Theater.

[52:26] Tom Zohar: I'm so happy to hear that.

[52:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'll name them. It's fine.

[52:29] Tom Zohar: We love them. We have so many friends.

[52:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. A Weekend in the Country, Desiree decides that basically Frederick would be a great father for his daughter.

[52:39] Tom Zohar: Well, she realizes that day that her daughter needs a father figure and that she actually would really like to maybe settle down with a man, which is good for her.

[52:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, good for her. So she talks to her mom and says, hey, let's invite Frederick and Anne up for the weekend and I'll get my claws in there and then everything will live happily ever after.

[53:05] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[53:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So they send out invitations to Frederick and Anne. Anne receives the invitation and of course she's already feeling insecure about Desiree.

[53:16] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[53:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And now I have to spend an entire weekend with her knowing that there's this thing between them.

[53:21] Tom Zohar: And Petra's really excited about it so she doesn't understand what the hell is wrong with Anne but she just doesn't want to do it.

[53:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: By the way, when was this weird pillow fight between Petra and Anne that almost feels like they could make out at any second?

[53:35] Tom Zohar: It happens in the Bergman movie also.

[53:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And in the Bergman movie they are full on under the covers and then she kind of kisses her and leaves.

[53:42] Tom Zohar: I don't remember exactly when it happens.

[53:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's early.

[53:45] Tom Zohar: It's in the first act though, right?

[53:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's early in the show, yeah. Petra's just like getting her kicks whenever she...

[53:49] Tom Zohar: Petra doesn't care.

[53:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like you said, sex positive.

[53:51] Tom Zohar: Petra is sex positive, possibly bisexual.

[53:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Bisexual icon, I'll call it.

[53:56] Tom Zohar: No, I love her because she's just like, whatever, I'm just having fun.

[54:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's exciting to someone like her. It's kind of cool that someone in her position, we would basically call her the help, is living life to its fullest.

[54:11] Tom Zohar: Oh, yeah. So she gets the invitation, she's freaking out.

[54:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is when she goes to Charlotte and goes, look at this ridiculous thing, I'm not going.

[54:21] Tom Zohar: And Charlotte is like, uh-uh-uh. You should absolutely go because you're going to be up against a middle-aged woman. He's going to see how beautiful you are.

[54:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And, you know, old Desiree is just going to keep withering. Wear your hair down in a flower. Don't use makeup dressed in white. She'll grow older by the hour and be hopelessly shattered by Saturday night, which is...

[54:41] Tom Zohar: I don't know how you get better than that.

[54:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so then she's like, oh, okay, well then we're going.

[54:47] Tom Zohar: Yeah. Charlotte tells...

[54:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Carl Magnus.

[54:51] Tom Zohar: Carl Magnus. Who is shooting.

[54:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Babe, you should probably know that this woman that you're really possessive about has just invited Frederick up to his house for the weekend.

[55:00] Tom Zohar: Carl Magnus says, well, then we're going too.

[55:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And she's like, we weren't invited.

[55:04] Tom Zohar: And he said, we're going.

[55:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We're going. And she's like, oh, crap.

[55:07] Tom Zohar: I know, like that backfired.

[55:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that was not what I was expecting. So now they're all going to the country for the weekend.

[55:15] Tom Zohar: And it sets up the second act beautifully.

[55:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We're so excited to come back from intermission. It's so good.

[55:20] Tom Zohar: Okay, so when I saw in New York, once again, this revival, I was in the standing room. And so I have this really fun memory of my feet were killing me from walking around all day.

[55:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then I was standing for all of Little Night Music. And so I like quietly took my shoes off and...

[55:38] Tom Zohar: Jeff, for listeners, I'm just gawking at him for doing that.

[55:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Go ahead.

[55:43] Tom Zohar: But they were they were like really easy on and off type shoes. And so and I was just like, oh, my gosh, my poor flat feet. And then, like, I knew Weekend in the Country so well that I was like, okay, when it reaches this point, that's when I need to start putting on my shoes.

[56:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So when the lights came up for, you know, intermission that I was like, this is wonderful. This is just lovely. This is just the most elegant, refined evening.

[56:10] Tom Zohar: Do you take your shoes off on airplanes?

[56:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No.

[56:14] Tom Zohar: Okay, good. Thank you. I had a moment where I was like, Jeffrey, where else do you take your shoes off?

[56:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm not that. I'm not that person.

[56:18] Tom Zohar: Girl.

[56:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Fun fact, I can't tie shoelaces very well. It takes me like a full 15 minutes.

[56:25] Tom Zohar: So I prefer slip on.

[56:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I usually the shoes I wear don't. I can slip it on and off. So I get it. It's fine. You took your shoes off.

[56:33] Tom Zohar: They're not wearing shoes.

[56:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They're not. I also remember Catherine Zeta-Jones making her big entrance for "Glamorous Life" and me thinking, oh, yeah, that's a star.

[56:42] Tom Zohar: Oh, yeah.

[56:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know what I mean? Especially the costume that gave her that black, like, oh.

[56:50] Tom Zohar: Like, she walked in and I was just like, I don't know if I had ever quite had that rush over me before. And I mean, she was fine in the show. Like, I didn't think she was the best Desiree Armfeld I've ever seen. Poor thing was so sick at the Tonys. Like, I was watching her going, she is nervous.

[57:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[57:06] Tom Zohar: But yeah, you can't really teach star power and she had it.

[57:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'll tweet her just in case.

[57:12] Tom Zohar: Yeah, I'll reach out to Kathy. I'll be like, Kathy.

[57:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Hey, Kat.

[57:15] Tom Zohar: Yo, C. C-dog.

[57:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Hey, CZ.

[57:19] Tom Zohar: CZ.

[57:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: CZ.

[57:23] Tom Zohar: CZJ.

[57:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh. I would love to call Catherine Zeta-Jones CZJ.

[57:31] Tom Zohar: Yo, CZJ. What you up to, girl?

[57:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What's up?

[57:34] Tom Zohar: All right. So act two starts.

[57:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[57:37] Tom Zohar: And we're out at the country.

[57:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. And the group of singers is discussing the fact that the sun refuses to set.

[57:47] Tom Zohar: Because it's Sweden. It probably is kind of true. I don't know.

[57:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a thing that happens. It's like, it's like, I don't know all the details about it. Do at me if you know more details about it. But there's at least one night a year or a few years. I don't know when when the sun won't really set. It just kind of dips down and then rises again. So it's perpetually, perpetually that smells three times perpetual sunset.

[58:06] Tom Zohar: One of the first songs in the second act is for Carl Magnus and Frederick.

[58:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And they're singing about Desiree and how she's kind of their perfect woman.

[58:18] Tom Zohar: Boy, do I skip this song every time I listen to it?

[58:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's okay.

[58:21] Tom Zohar: Men singing. I'm just like, okay, I feel the same way. You know what I mean? It's just like, okay, well, I'm glad you're singing men. Bye.

[58:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: There was a time in my life when I looked at my iTunes store and I was so embarrassed by how gay it looks that I was like, all right, I need to buy something that besides Alice Ripley.

[58:35] Tom Zohar: I mean, truly, because I just had Alice Ripley and Emily Skinner's albums.

[58:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I was like, okay, what can I do? So I bought Seal and Bon Jovi.

[58:52] Tom Zohar: Jeffrey, you went all the way to the other side of the spectrum.

[58:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Bon Jovi, that's a choice. But also that I mean, is it really?

[59:01] Tom Zohar: No, now that you mentioned it, I'm like, that's also pretty. I mean, it's kind of it's it's like a 40-year-old woman who's like, I love Seal.

[59:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You went from a boy to a 40-year-old woman. We stand honestly.

[59:13] Tom Zohar: I like that progression for you very much.

[59:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That gives way to look, I love a good dinner party scene.

[59:20] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[59:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And this one has a great dinner party scene.

[59:23] Tom Zohar: This one is mystical. It's magical. It is comical.

[59:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: In the new or the newest revival, they all sat on pillows, which I thought was an interesting choice.

[59:34] Tom Zohar: Not right.

[59:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm like Madame Armfeld doesn't own a dining table. Supposed to be sumptuous, but sure.

[59:40] Tom Zohar: It's so funny. I also love that it's in the movie and in every production I've seen, it's set so that Madame Armfeld is sitting in front of a whole row of everyone else, which is such a power play from Madame Armfeld like it is.

[59:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're right. We all's conversation. I'm presiding. I am presiding here.

[59:57] Tom Zohar: You're exactly I have this special wine, by the way, with magical properties.

[1:00:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The nobody knows quite what it is.

[1:00:05] Tom Zohar: Well, okay, in the Berkman movie, she gives the ingredients.

[1:00:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, are you ready?

[1:00:10] Tom Zohar: Can't wait. It's a drop of mother's milk and a drop of the seed from a stallion.

[1:00:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yummy.

[1:00:21] Tom Zohar: Speechless.

[1:00:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[1:00:22] Tom Zohar: I've never been so grateful to be sober in my life.

[1:00:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I am.

[1:00:26] Tom Zohar: Au contraire, I want that in every juice I drink.

[1:00:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I put it in my sippy cup and put in my thermos.

[1:00:35] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[1:00:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So the you know, our favorite our favorite vocalists come out and sing perpetual anticipation.

[1:00:41] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[1:00:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is good for the heart.

[1:00:44] Tom Zohar: Good for the soul, but bad for the heart, which I kind of understand.

[1:00:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Anyone with anxiety gets that.

[1:00:50] Tom Zohar: In this dinner party, Charlotte starts flirting big time with Frederick to try and make her husband.

[1:00:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Just part of the plan that that Desiree and Charlotte have about breaking that whole thing up.

[1:01:03] Tom Zohar: Because Desiree doesn't want Carl Magnus anymore.

[1:01:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, she just wants.

[1:01:07] Tom Zohar: She just wants Frederick.

[1:01:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But like for realsies.

[1:01:09] Tom Zohar: Do they have a moment in the musical? Because I know they do in the movie, but in the musical, do they have a moment where they talk to each other about how, hey, I know we're enemies, but let's work together?

[1:01:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think so.

[1:01:18] Tom Zohar: I can't remember, but I think you're right.

[1:01:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As you said it, I was like, yes, absolutely. They have this plan.

[1:01:23] Tom Zohar: It's also great. It's two strong women who don't get along being like, you know what? Screw our rivalry. Let's work together.

[1:01:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[1:01:30] Tom Zohar: Women.

[1:01:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So Charlotte gets super drunk and is flirting with Frederick the entire time, which is just pissing off her husband to know Magnus is having a bad dinner.

[1:01:41] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:01:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As though like she's embarrassing herself.

[1:01:45] Tom Zohar: Dude, you're embarrassing.

[1:01:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're the embarrassing one.

[1:01:48] Tom Zohar: But Frederick is like, oh, you're just delightful.

[1:01:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He doesn't think it's funny.

[1:01:51] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:01:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Henrik.

[1:01:54] Tom Zohar: Speaking of embarrassing, has had enough.

[1:01:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[1:01:57] Tom Zohar: Of grownups and their bullshittery.

[1:01:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So he stands up and just kind of yells at everybody and has a tantrum, has a breakdown, emotional breakdown, and then runs out of the room.

[1:02:06] Tom Zohar: It smashes a glass.

[1:02:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[1:02:09] Tom Zohar: And then runs out of the room.

[1:02:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Carl Magnus.

[1:02:12] Tom Zohar: This is actually kind of an interesting thing.

[1:02:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So Carl Magnus finally decides that he's going to find out the truth between these two and asks the old lady, Madam Armfeldt, is Frederick actually your lawyer?

[1:02:20] Tom Zohar: Because I have heard that he has come here several times and is a friend of Desiree's, you know, to finally get to the truth of what's going on.

[1:02:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Madam Armfeldt basically says, I haven't been paying attention to any of this conversation because you all are boring.

[1:02:38] Tom Zohar: Legend.

[1:02:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And legend.

[1:02:40] Tom Zohar: And then introduces the dessert wine and is and then leaves the stage.

[1:02:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She's a legend.

[1:02:45] Tom Zohar: She's a Kwan.

[1:02:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She is a Kwan.

[1:02:47] Tom Zohar: Thank you.

[1:02:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:02:49] Tom Zohar: So the dinner is a disaster.

[1:02:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:02:50] Tom Zohar: Dinner's a total disaster.

[1:02:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Anne's also upset because of Henrik.

[1:02:54] Tom Zohar: She tries to go after him.

[1:02:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Frederick gets mad.

[1:02:57] Tom Zohar: Anne has this like kind of tender feelings toward Henrik as well that you start seeing.

[1:03:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:03:04] Tom Zohar: She cares about him and is worried about him.

[1:03:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, she's in love with him.

[1:03:09] Tom Zohar: She just doesn't quite realize it.

[1:03:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[1:03:11] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:03:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so then the dinner scene, the dinner scene comes to an end.

[1:03:15] Tom Zohar: Thank goodness, because otherwise somebody would have been stabbed.

[1:03:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A table would have been flipped on Madam Armfeldt or the other way around, for all we know.

[1:03:24] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:03:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Maybe that's why there wasn't a table in the revival.

[1:03:26] Tom Zohar: She would have flipped it.

[1:03:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because there's no other choice.

[1:03:29] Tom Zohar: Desiree is like, we know that mother has a penchant for flipping tables, so we're going to just not bother with it at this point.

[1:03:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The next big scene is between Frederick and Desiree.

[1:03:40] Tom Zohar: They kind of have a DTR, determine the relationship.

[1:03:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I like that.

[1:03:44] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:03:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I like it.

[1:03:45] Tom Zohar: And Frederick basically says, I need to be true to my wife.

[1:03:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:03:51] Tom Zohar: I'm happy where I am, he says.

[1:03:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And this scene originally was Frederick's scene.

[1:03:58] Tom Zohar: And so Sondheim was planning on writing a song for him.

[1:04:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then the more that they thought about it, they realized that Desiree had two songs in the first act, both of which were duets.

[1:04:10] Tom Zohar: And so this was really the moment to give her a solo.

[1:04:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Glynnis Johns was the original Desiree Armfeldt, also known as Sister Suffragette from Mary Poppins.

[1:04:25] Tom Zohar: I mean, talk about icon. Love her so much.

[1:04:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so much of the role is built around her skill set.

[1:04:31] Tom Zohar: And she can carry a tune, but certainly it's not. She has a very raspy but light voice.

[1:04:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sondheim calls it silvery, which I find interesting.

[1:04:40] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:04:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so knowing her voice and what she was capable of, specifically in terms of breath support, because her tone is kind of whispered and raspy, he decided that the song should have short phrases and short phrases could be questions.

[1:04:58] Tom Zohar: Like, that's a really rich. You don't have to hold it.

[1:05:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Are we a pair?

[1:05:03] Tom Zohar: So once he realized all of that, he said that "Send in the Clowns," which is probably one of his most popular songs, most successful.

[1:05:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think it's boring as hell. I'm just kidding.

[1:05:16] Tom Zohar: But it's certainly a song that from a pop culture standpoint.

[1:05:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Barbara did it.

[1:05:20] Tom Zohar: Frank Sinatra did it.

[1:05:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Who hasn't done it?

[1:05:22] Tom Zohar: Judy Collins was one of the people who recorded it, I think, two years after it premiered on Broadway and won the Grammy Award for Song of the Year.

[1:05:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Good.

[1:05:32] Tom Zohar: Which is incredible.

[1:05:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I don't know of any other, I mean, certainly since then, any other song from a musical that became popular that won a Grammy Award for Song of the Year.

[1:05:42] Tom Zohar: Right.

[1:05:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's crazy.

[1:05:43] Tom Zohar: So this was the song that he wrote for her.

[1:05:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Full on acting song.

[1:05:47] Tom Zohar: At the same time, I think on some level when I was younger, I was trying to figure out why, why were we talking about clowns?

[1:05:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like, it seemed like such an interesting.

[1:05:56] Tom Zohar: I mean, if I'm not mistaken, that's like an old timey stage thing of like, if something falters on stage, when in doubt, just send in the clowns.

[1:06:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[1:06:05] Tom Zohar: So what's happening is this actress who is very in touch with herself and knows what she's doing and very calculated in her actions and always got a quip or like a way of dealing with awkward situations has found herself in a situation where she doesn't know her lines.

[1:06:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She doesn't know how to get out of it.

[1:06:21] Tom Zohar: She's out of quips and she's going, well, I guess I've just hit a wall here and I don't know what to do next.

[1:06:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So someone help me and send in the clowns.

[1:06:31] Tom Zohar: And while saying that, she's realizing, wait, where are the clowns? Where are the demos here?

[1:06:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And isn't that brilliant?

[1:06:36] Tom Zohar: Because it goes right back to the theme of the summer night smiles at the young and then the fools.

[1:06:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[1:06:43] Tom Zohar: And I think that as I grew older and got to know the show better, I'm like, oh, that's why they're clowns.

[1:06:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:06:50] Tom Zohar: From there, do we go to Petra and Freed?

[1:06:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is that when Petra and Freed have their little tryst in the grass?

[1:06:56] Tom Zohar: Let's talk about it now.

[1:06:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Freed gets a line.

[1:06:58] Tom Zohar: Finally, he gets a line and it's something very poetic.

[1:07:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Freed's character.

[1:07:02] Tom Zohar: Oh, I don't know if we've even talked about him at this point.

[1:07:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He's the butler.

[1:07:04] Tom Zohar: Oh, we're going to talk about Freed.

[1:07:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He wheels Armfeld around.

[1:07:09] Tom Zohar: He is always in every situation I've ever seen of any production of it, the hottest person in the cast.

[1:07:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Basically, when they look for a Freed, they go, oh, are you six feet tall and muscular? Cool, because he doesn't have to sing and he doesn't have to really say that much.

[1:07:23] Tom Zohar: He has like literally one line.

[1:07:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All you have to do is roll around with Petra in the grass, normally shirtless, normally in suspenders, like Skimbleshanks in the movie.

[1:07:34] Tom Zohar: Always hot.

[1:07:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: If I remember correctly, on your old Tinder profile, it said preferred type Freed.

[1:07:40] Tom Zohar: Yeah, it's actually I still say it to anyone who'd hear.

[1:07:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It doesn't matter if I'm married or not.

[1:07:45] Tom Zohar: The little tryst with Freed ends in a song for Petra.

[1:07:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, and so what happens is when they show up at the mansion for the weekend of the country, Petra, as any smart person would do, looks for whatever's around for her to have some fun with.

[1:08:01] Tom Zohar: I'm going to say that there are a lot of my listeners who would probably say, I have never done that.

[1:08:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, some of you have.

[1:08:09] Tom Zohar: Jeffrey, you're welcome to cut this out.

[1:08:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I just want to be the voice of those people.

[1:08:13] Tom Zohar: Thank you.

[1:08:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:08:14] Tom Zohar: Okay, so there's the devil talking to you and an angel sitting across from him.

[1:08:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Jeffrey, I'm trying to appeal to your more jaded listeners.

[1:08:24] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[1:08:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, I get it.

[1:08:25] Tom Zohar: Like because heaven knows I've talked about church and love so much on this podcast.

[1:08:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm here to talk about hell and sex.

[1:08:36] Tom Zohar: Two things Jews don't believe in.

[1:08:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, listen again, sex positivity is important.

[1:08:42] Tom Zohar: Joking aside, and I think Petra is that's kind of what I love about her as a character.

[1:08:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then she has a song that is as much as raucous as she is, but also has a twinge of melancholy.

[1:08:52] Tom Zohar: Yeah, and I think it's so it's it ends on a minor every time.

[1:08:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So she talks about one day she's going to marry, you know, a successful man.

[1:09:03] Tom Zohar: She's going through a roster, basically, of all the people that she would love to marry someday.

[1:09:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But then after she talks about this man that she's going to marry, she just says in the meanwhile, yeah, I'm going to, you know, have my fun.

[1:09:16] Tom Zohar: Sondheim opens up his thesaurus and just finds all the alliterations that you could possibly find in a patter song.

[1:09:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a very short road from the pinch and the punch to the punch and the pouch and the pension.

[1:09:28] Tom Zohar: I mean, guys, it's a very short road to the 10,000th lunch and the belch and the grouch and the sigh.

[1:09:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I mean, I mean, it's so good.

[1:09:38] Tom Zohar: Just like all the pez.

[1:09:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's just it's.

[1:09:48] Tom Zohar: And the woman who gets cast as Petra runs away with the show.

[1:09:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Just one song. It's like Fontaine.

[1:09:52] Tom Zohar: You run away with the show.

[1:09:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And if you're good enough, you may not even put it back.

[1:09:58] Tom Zohar: Like you just run away with it forever.

[1:09:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's mine. It's mine.

[1:10:01] Tom Zohar: Why do you think it is sad?

[1:10:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Why do I think it ends on a melancholy note?

[1:10:09] Tom Zohar: Because every time she is talking about, you know, marriage, it keeps going back to that minor key again.

[1:10:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I know I talk about it a lot.

[1:10:13] Tom Zohar: I'm going to go back to the movie because in the movie, it's a lot more explicit that this is a woman who wants to get married.

[1:10:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think, honestly, part of it is because she actually wants to get married and she's thinking about all the fun she's having.

[1:10:26] Tom Zohar: But every time she reaches the end of those moments, it goes back to a minor note because she realizes.

[1:10:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But at the end of the day, here's what I'm actually looking for.

[1:10:39] Tom Zohar: Because up until this point, we've just known her as.

[1:10:42] Tom Zohar: The sassy, horny maid.

[1:10:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sex positive maid, excuse me. But then, to at least identify the fact that it's not completely satisfying, is what makes it a well-rounded character.

[1:10:55] Tom Zohar: And she ends up marrying at the end of the movie.

[1:10:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, does she?

[1:10:58] Tom Zohar: Yeah, so it's a little different from what happens during the musical.

[1:11:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Alright, so after Petra's stolen the show, we then go to Henrik, who has decided to end his life.

[1:11:07] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[1:11:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And kind of walks in on his suicide a little bit.

[1:11:11] Tom Zohar: So, and I'm going to be talking about the movie, this is the actual last time.

[1:11:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[1:11:16] Tom Zohar: And this one is important.

[1:11:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[1:11:18] Tom Zohar: Very important. In the movie, Henrik is staying in a room that is kind of like their quote-unquote presidential suite. But there's a secret to this room.

[1:11:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What’s that?

[1:11:26] Tom Zohar: There is a secret button inside of this room that if you press it, a part of the wall opens up.

[1:11:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, stop it.

[1:11:34] Tom Zohar: The bed from the other room slides in. The wall closes again. The figure, the little statue of a trumpeteer angel comes out of the wall and trumpets.

[1:11:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is essentially a booty call button.

[1:11:49] Tom Zohar: Which is insane, hilarious, and horrifying when you consider the implications of how little consent there is about a bed just sliding into a room.

[1:11:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a little Matt Lauer.

[1:12:00] Tom Zohar: Thank you. In the movie, what happens is Henrik goes to hang himself in his room. He tries to hang himself off of like a light or something, like a fixture. I don't remember what. It breaks. He falls down and hits his chest against the button. He didn't realize the button was there.

[1:12:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh no.

[1:12:19] Tom Zohar: A bed slides into the room. Anne is in that bed. That is how they end up together. So with all due respect to Sondheim and the forest scene, that is one thing from the movie I wish they put into the musical because it's insane.

[1:12:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's insane.

[1:12:32] Tom Zohar: I'm a huge fan of secret passages in homes. It's so magical. It's a non-negotiable for me. When I have a house as a grown-up.

[1:12:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I want that for you as a grown-up.

[1:12:45] Tom Zohar: It's weird. I'm talking to a five-year-old. You sound so adult. There has to be a secret passage of some kind.

[1:12:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But also can you imagine if they put it in a musical and every production had to build a set piece?

[1:12:55] Tom Zohar: God bless those community theaters. They would just have a person in black.

[1:12:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We have to install a hydraulic system for the bed to come out of the stage.

[1:13:04] Tom Zohar: For a little night music that's not going to sell.

[1:13:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, God. Anne interrupts the suicide in the forest.

[1:13:12] Tom Zohar: He dearly enhances it which means he falls out of a tree and kind of botches his...

[1:13:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And actually Sondheim wanted the suicide to be successful.

[1:13:20] Tom Zohar: What? That's how dark Sondheim likes to go.

[1:13:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's not even how the story goes.

[1:13:26] Tom Zohar: And Hugh Wheeler was like, no, this is a happy show.

[1:13:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sondheim.

[1:13:32] Tom Zohar: But anyway, in the musical, thank goodness he doesn't go through with it. He doesn't die.

[1:13:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He doesn't.

[1:13:38] Tom Zohar: In fact, it allows him to finally reveal his feelings to Anne that he has loved her a long time.

[1:13:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And she's like, oh, my God, same.

[1:13:48] Tom Zohar: Something clicks in her and she's like, oh, wow, this is what I've been waiting for. And they do it.

[1:13:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And they literally run away.

[1:13:55] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:13:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No word to anyone. They're just like, bye.

[1:13:58] Tom Zohar: Yeah. We're done.

[1:14:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So that's when the knight smiles on the young because they find each other and run away.

[1:14:06] Tom Zohar: How's there ever been a production where there is like a smile projection?

[1:14:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm going to do that. In a little night rock music, there will be a projection of a smile.

[1:14:15] Tom Zohar: The toothy grin of the Swedish moon.

[1:14:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It gets bigger and bigger as it goes along.

[1:14:20] Tom Zohar: The Swedish moon. I like that. Then the next thing that happens is the duel, right?

[1:14:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:14:28] Tom Zohar: There's the duel.

[1:14:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. It happens after that because Frederick is like bereft about his bride escaping.

[1:14:33] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[1:14:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He's like, where has Anne gone? And Carl Magnus is like, what did you do with my wife? We're going to play a Russian roulette.

[1:14:40] Tom Zohar: High stakes.

[1:14:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. I don't know. These rich people are really bored.

[1:14:44] Tom Zohar: So they play Russian roulette. The gun goes off, but luckily just grazes his ear.

[1:14:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:14:51] Tom Zohar: On the ground.

[1:14:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: On the ground.

[1:14:53] Tom Zohar: Double bereft.

[1:14:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. At this point.

[1:14:56] Tom Zohar: Desiree runs to him.

[1:14:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[1:14:58] Tom Zohar: Right. Oh, you fool.

[1:15:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, literally. She's just like, ah. And she's like, oh, I've been such a fool.

[1:15:03] Tom Zohar: And he realizes how chaotic. And sometimes we do need a little taste of death.

[1:15:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A slap in the face.

[1:15:07] Tom Zohar: Yeah. An actual slap in the face from death.

[1:15:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Uh-huh. They sing a reprise.

[1:15:11] Tom Zohar: They sing the reprise of Send in the Clowns, which is we've been clowns all this time. We are the fools. Mary go around me as King Lear, which is a nice lyric.

[1:15:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I like it.

[1:15:19] Tom Zohar: That is sweet. And so the knight smiles on the fools.

[1:15:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. There they are.

[1:15:25] Tom Zohar: The last one. And then Carl Magnus realizes, I think, that Charlotte is worth more.

[1:15:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, he doesn't realize shit.

[1:15:30] Tom Zohar: What happens is she goes, Carl Magnus, turn around and look at me. And she gives him what for?

[1:15:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:15:36] Tom Zohar: And she's like, I'm your wife, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which, again, she deserves better, but good for her for asserting herself.

[1:15:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm glad that she stands up for herself.

[1:15:42] Tom Zohar: I don't. I think they last another five months, and then she goes, OK.

[1:15:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, enough is enough. We're done.

[1:15:47] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:15:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's kind of the feeling I get as well.

[1:15:50] Tom Zohar: Yes. Then we I don't know if we've known this before, but we realized that Desiree's daughter's name is Frederica.

[1:15:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, Frederica, which.

[1:16:01] Tom Zohar: So then.

[1:16:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So then Frederick's like, oh, shoot, this is my kid.

[1:16:05] Tom Zohar: Yeah, it's his kid. So we see them together as a family, as they should be.

[1:16:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think I'm really excited for them.

[1:16:12] Tom Zohar: They will last.

[1:16:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think they'll be OK.

[1:16:14] Tom Zohar: Yeah, I think they'll be OK. They know how to fight in the right way.

[1:16:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[1:16:19] Tom Zohar: And then years later, Frederica will write a searing memoir about how damaging it's all been for a mommy dearest.

[1:16:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Go full Carrie Fisher.

[1:16:27] Tom Zohar: Absolutely. Then R.I.P. Carrie Fisher.

[1:16:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh yeah. Speaking of R.I.P., guess what's about to happen?

[1:16:33] Tom Zohar: So the last thing that needs to happen is for the knight to smile on the old. And Frederica, the daughter, tells her grandma, you told me that you smile three times.

[1:16:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[1:16:45] Tom Zohar: Even twice. What's the third one? And Madame Armfield, like, takes a deep breath. She goes, watch this.

[1:16:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Dies and then dies.

[1:16:52] Tom Zohar: And the music is gorgeous. Her wig apparently falls off a little bit.

[1:16:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Just a little bit.

[1:16:57] Tom Zohar: She snatches one last wig.

[1:16:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As a true icon, she look, is there a more iconic character who can call her own death?

[1:17:06] Tom Zohar: And it's a peaceful death where she's just like, she just gives up the ghost and she good.

[1:17:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She good. She's like peace. My work here is done.

[1:17:15] Tom Zohar: If I don't die in a wheelchair with a wig falling off peacefully, I just revive me and let me try again.

[1:17:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: With Jonathan Tunick orchestrations to accompany you.

[1:17:25] Tom Zohar: Yeah, that's a dream.

[1:17:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's great. It's a dream. And the show ends with everyone waltzing with the partners that they should have had.

[1:17:32] Tom Zohar: And then Frederica looks in the audience and goes, and haven't we all had a little night music blackout?

[1:17:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, I just wish every show ended like that. Where you have to say the title, make eye contact with every audience member.

[1:17:45] Tom Zohar: Yes. I've been recording a lot of episodes about family shows.

[1:17:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:17:50] Tom Zohar: Like Frozen. This one will need to have a little E next to it.

[1:17:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[1:17:54] Tom Zohar: Yeah. And I think that one of the reasons why it was so refreshing for audiences and from the reviews I read from critics, they were saying, oh, it's a musical written for adults.

[1:18:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:18:05] Tom Zohar: And not like.

[1:18:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Not meaning that it's bawdy or dirty.

[1:18:10] Tom Zohar: Not that it's dirty. Those are fine, too.

[1:18:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:18:14] Tom Zohar: Yeah. But that's not what they meant. They were meaning sophisticated and also adult themes.

[1:18:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The themes are not frivolous.

[1:18:20] Tom Zohar: Yeah. But yeah, it's very grown up. And it's something that you have to sit and listen to.

[1:18:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:18:27] Tom Zohar: You have to be an engaged audience member to really enjoy it.

[1:18:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:18:30] Tom Zohar: The way that it's meant to be enjoyed. Where some musicals are ice cream. This one's like a parfait. It's meant to be nibbled and enjoyed over several hours.

[1:18:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sometimes I just like that. I don't even taste it.

[1:18:40] Tom Zohar: When I eat to my husband, it's just I open up like a snake and the burrito just goes down and then I suffer later.

[1:18:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But sure. I don't think about suffering in the moment.

[1:18:52] Tom Zohar: Yeah. Because life is short because it's a very short road from the plunge in the plunge to the...

[1:19:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Can you imagine playing Petra and losing your lyrics and going from that one in the flunk?

[1:19:04] Tom Zohar: It's like a June is busting all over a moment.

[1:19:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely positive. That would be me. Please.

[1:19:09] Tom Zohar: Yeah. Please add us any Petra's who have gone up during.

[1:19:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a very far going from the fling in the flunk.

[1:19:16] Tom Zohar: One of my favorites is not Sondheim related at all. I was at Disney and the singing suitcase in a dream. And the lyric is so pack up your suitcase and start your dream in. And I would make like a come on sort of motion. And for some reason I said so come on your suitcase and back up your suitcase.

[1:19:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Come on your suitcase.

[1:19:34] Tom Zohar: Honestly. And that's that's all that music. And I like I've made eye contact with the sound guy who is operating everything from the iPad in his eyes just like grew three times. What did you just say? I'm like I'm so sorry. Come on your suitcase.

[1:19:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Again.

[1:19:44] Tom Zohar: Come on your luggage.

[1:19:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my God. That's too good.

[1:19:48] Tom Zohar: Anyway. There's nothing better than that.

[1:19:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Alright. Thank you.

[1:19:51] Tom Zohar: Oh wait. We haven't really talked about the movie version of the musical. I guess there's not much to say.

[1:19:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh I mean it's it's there. I'm I've often thought that a little night music would have been better with a different director.

[1:20:01] Tom Zohar: He was too close to it.

[1:20:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What if Mike Nichols had directed it?

[1:20:04] Tom Zohar: Wow. You know like me.

[1:20:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Do you think it would be?

[1:20:07] Tom Zohar: Well I'm if you're going to do it.

[1:20:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm going to do it.

[1:20:09] Tom Zohar: I'm going to do it.

[1:20:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm going to do it.

[1:20:11] Tom Zohar: Wow. You know like me. What do you think would be if they did it again? Who do you think would be for for a film?

[1:20:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah film musical version.

[1:20:18] Tom Zohar: It's it's a difficult piece. And Sondheim talks about this that when you have like a four minute scene song scene like you must meet my wife that in film you could have to do a lot.

[1:20:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah you had you kind of have to do really tricky things with editing in the camera.

[1:20:47] Tom Zohar: So not not Tom Hooper.

[1:20:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because really all of the emotions could be said in that scene with two close ups.

[1:20:53] Tom Zohar: Yeah.

[1:20:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And great acting.

[1:20:56] Tom Zohar: Yes. So then how do you justify it to be? You'd have to open it up. They'd have to like go for a walk or something. I don't know.

[1:21:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So maybe you do it as like a crazy one take type.

[1:21:06] Tom Zohar: In your way. You know I don't know.

[1:21:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's funny because the moments where the movie version are the most successful in my opinion is where he opened it up so that like we can in the country for example where their restaurant and they're outside and then they're like in those cool cars and yeah and it's not a disaster.

[1:21:28] Tom Zohar: No it's not a disaster. One Liz Taylor bless her heart. She's actually my least favorite thing in the movie.

[1:21:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah she's very bad in it.

[1:21:35] Tom Zohar: But like you can see Diana Rigg. She's great. Play Charlotte. She's fantastic. And Len Carreau is good.

[1:21:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Len Carreau.

[1:21:43] Tom Zohar: Yeah. I mean who. OK. So yeah let's go through our Tony Awards here. This is 1973. So like I said Pippin was the other big show besides Little Night Music. Also up for best musical that year were Sugar which was the film version of Some Like It Hot or sorry the stage version the stage musical version of Some Like It Hot. And Don't Bother Me I Can't Cope which is one of those 70s musicals you were talking about earlier.

[1:22:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Exactly one of those. That's the 70s would have been a wash in those if we didn't have Sondheim.

[1:22:16] Tom Zohar: Right. A Little Night Music wins over Pippin. However Bob Fosse wins for director and for choreographer.

[1:22:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Glynnis Johns wins for best actress.

[1:22:27] Tom Zohar: Good.

[1:22:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Len Carreau who was the original Frederick was up for actor. He loses of course to Ben Vereen because that's an iconic performance.

[1:22:34] Tom Zohar: In featured actress our bald lady Hermione Gingold is nominated for Madame Armfelt but she loses to Patricia Elliott who played Charlotte.

[1:22:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really I didn't realize she won.

[1:22:46] Tom Zohar: Lawrence Guitard. I don't know.

[1:22:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Guitard.

[1:22:49] Tom Zohar: Yeah. I don't actually know.

[1:22:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:22:52] Tom Zohar: But he's nominated for Carl Magnus. That voice.

[1:22:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's an incredible voice.

[1:22:55] Tom Zohar: Right. There's the note he hits at the woman's moon and he holds it for a million years. That's a man.

[1:22:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But that tone.

[1:22:59] Tom Zohar: Yeah. And I mean his character drives me crazy. But I would listen to him.

[1:23:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh. But it's also by the way it's a great comedic character.

[1:23:04] Tom Zohar: Oh for sure.

[1:23:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. He's not just toxic. He's all he's also comically toxic. It's making fun of him.

[1:23:09] Tom Zohar: It's making fun of him.

[1:23:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's making fun of masculine toxicity.

[1:23:12] Tom Zohar: Exactly. It also wins for costume design.

[1:23:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mm hmm.

[1:23:16] Tom Zohar: Lawrence Klotz. Oh and then Sondheim wins for score and Hugh Wheeler wins for book. So it has a really successful year at the Tony Awards which makes the early 70s really belong to Sondheim.

[1:23:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it ran for a long time and was financially successful.

[1:23:35] Tom Zohar: Company to Follies then.

[1:23:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Yes. Exactly. So good for them. It's a wonderful piece.

[1:23:41] Tom Zohar: And that's what Petra said to Freed.

[1:23:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's what Petra said. We're starting that.

[1:23:44] Tom Zohar: Yes.

[1:23:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for being here, Tom.

[1:23:47] Tom Zohar: My absolute pleasure.

[1:23:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you. Thanks to Sondheim and all of the wonderful people who made this really elegant and horny piece of theater for us to enjoy. Please follow us on Instagram and Twitter at a musical podcast. And if you have any ideas or requests for shows that we cover here on the show, you can email us at a musical podcast at musicalpodcast.com.

[1:23:54] Tom Zohar: Thank you.

[1:23:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:24:10] Tom Zohar: Please follow us on Instagram and Twitter at a musical podcast at Gmail.com.

[1:24:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I think that's it. Thanks everybody for listening and I don't know what should be the tagline.

[1:24:19] Tom Zohar: And as always, it's a very short road.

[1:24:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: From the plump to the shmump.

[1:24:26] Tom Zohar: And the plump.

[1:24:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's it. I don't know how it could get better than that.

[1:24:29] Tom Zohar: Cheer music.

[1:24:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Goodbye.

[1:24:42] Tom Zohar: Cheer music.

[1:24:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Goodbye.