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[0:00] Justin Squiggs Robertson: The second time I played Nicely, it was at Candlelight Pavilion Dinner Theatre in Claremont, and my Benny Southstreet was Steve Glaudini, who's well known to us and many, many in Southern California. And I think we just came back from our days off. The clothes had gone to the dry cleaners, had been cleaned, you know, and we did our first little bit in the show. And I, at that point in the show, would grab a banana, because Nicely Nicely would always be snacking throughout the show. And so at this point, a banana. So I was chewing this banana, and then I laughed at something in character, and I coughed a huge piece of chewed up banana onto Steve's freshly pressed suit on his shoulder. And I'm already mortified, and he turns and looks, and he sees it, and in the loudest stage whisper I think I've ever heard, he yells, "Get it off!"

And so I'm scraping it off of his shoulder and putting it in my pocket, you know, not realizing that I have to pull my pockets out in the next number in "Oldest Established to Show." So that bit went on the wayside. But then also in this number, my microphone fell out of the mic pack in my pants, and by the time I caught it, it was past my knee. So I spent a good portion of "Oldest Established" trying to keep my microphone pack from sliding out the bottom of my pants, and finally tucking my microphone pack into my sock. At this point in the run, I had gained a few pounds from when we opened the show. So as I'm doing this, the clasp on my pants burst, just went pop. And so I finish "Oldest Established" and that scene with my mic pack in my sock, banana goo dribbling out of my pocket and off of Steve's shoulder, and myself holding my pants up so they don't fall off.

And I get off stage and I burst into tears. I'm so sorry that this was like a stressful experience for you, but I am crying because of laughter. It is absolutely hilarious now. In the moment, I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. My gosh, live theater.

[2:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons, you can call me Jeff. Today, we're talking "Guys and Dolls" with my friend, actor, and famed theater caricaturist. It's Justin Squiggs Robertson.

[2:42] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Hi.

[2:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Hi, how are you?

[2:45] Justin Squiggs Robertson: I'm doing pretty well here in my hovel and my cubbyhole here in New York City.

[2:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Has a New York apartment ever felt smaller in your life than during the pandemic?

[2:59] Justin Squiggs Robertson: It's truly not. I mean, I partially gratefully, I have an apartment to myself. My roommate is on the West Coast. He was supposed to be starting a show right now. So, at least I have some room to breathe. Although, it would be nice to have someone else here to hear me talk instead of talking to people on Zoom or on the phone.

[3:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That kind of sucks. I'm so sorry.

[3:22] Justin Squiggs Robertson: No, it's all good.

[3:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I just picture you naming all of your paintbrushes and creating little dioramas.

[3:31] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Well, the dioramas is closer. I haven't quite come to the point where I'm naming my brushes and pens.

[3:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, for those who might not know, Squiggs, as he's known to the theater world, has really become the illustrator or artist for modern Broadway theater, taking over the tradition made famous by Al Hirschfeld. When I first moved to California, that's when I met you and we started doing shows together. And you would create these amazing pieces of art based on the show that we had all been doing together for three months, six weeks, whatever. And it was something that I assume grew out of a place of gratitude and love. But what was your artistic take on it?

[4:17] Justin Squiggs Robertson: When I first did my very first show that wasn't a school show, it got to closing night and I was like, I want to give something to everybody because I've just had such a great time. And so I had done some drawing, obviously, before that, and really hadn't stopped since I was a kid. But I decided I'll draw the cast and make copies and give them to everybody on closing night. And I got a positive response from that. And that just kind of started a tradition. So every show that I've done pretty much since then, I've done a closing night sketch. It's obvious that I'm incredibly in love with the work of Al Hirschfeld, who's, you know, he drew for the better part of seven or eight decades for obviously the New York Times, but like TV Guide, hundreds of publications over the years, and is really kind of synonymous when you think of caricature.

I think my particular style has kind of gone more in the direction of the work of Sam Norkin. He's kind of known as, sadly, as the other Hirschfeld. His career paralleled, time-wise, a good portion of Hirschfeld's career. And he also worked in black and white line pen and ink artwork. And he definitely didn't get the recognition that Hirschfeld did. You know, both were brilliant in their own way. And obviously, I'm just, you know, Hirschfeld is kind of the, you know, be-all and end-all.

[5:41] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Yeah, iconic. And I've been fortunate to build a relationship with the Al Hirschfeld Foundation, and they run an organization that is working, A, to keep, you know, Hirschfeld's legacy going, and also building educational tools for schools and arts and education, and that sort of a thing.

[6:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fantastic.

[6:05] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Yeah, it's really pretty cool. Kind of have to, you know, pinch myself, too. You know, it's like just chatting with this guy who, you know, spent the last 13 years, I think, of Al's life going through his files while Al worked across the room at his desk. And he's been very, very encouraging and very helpful, you know, to me. So that's really cool.

[6:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. Congratulations.

[6:27] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Thanks. What do you see as the importance of caricature in theater, and maybe even more specifically, musical theater?

[6:34] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Sure. Well, caricature, I mean, it's had a long-standing tradition with theater, I mean, from, you know, ancient times. And quite honestly...

[6:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really? Ancient times?

[6:45] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Yeah. And essentially, it kind of comes from the fact that people are trying to represent popular entertainment in the best way that they could. So for the longest time, caricature, or portraiture, you know, the illustration of that sort of thing, was how you would portray what you were seeing on stage. You didn't necessarily have cameras way back in the day. But then also, an illustration goes through the filter of an artist. You know, it's like you're experiencing something on stage that you can then capture, put it on paper. You're capturing a moment that will, you know, it's ephemeral, that won't exist anymore. And you're trying to capture that, the image, but also the feeling, the story, you know, trying to capture so much of what's going to disappear after it's done. In theater, we've, I think, all been to a really crappy photo shoot to try and sell our show.

[7:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure, sure.

[7:38] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Where you're like, we'll do this scene, but just do a pose from this scene. And it feels static and embarrassing. And the lighting isn't meant for photography. And you just kind of feel like the redheaded stepchild of the art world. Because the truth remains that theater is really difficult to capture because it's meant to be experienced live.

[7:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Very true, yeah.

[8:01] Justin Squiggs Robertson: And so there have been many photographers who have taken beautiful shots of shows, and I love them. And also, I think it then is up to artists like you to infuse the energy that actually exists in that space in an artistic way.

[8:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure, that's definitely my goal. When I'm the most successful is when I'm able to draw from knowing what goes into creating a piece of theater, being in the room when people are learning their lines, you know, or, you know, seeing the design that goes into a show. And I think that whenever I do an illustration, it's really trying to capture more than just an image or, you know, pretty pictures of people, or it's trying to capture a lot of different things that go into the huge collaboration that is, you know, theater.

[8:55] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Hallelujah. I love that. I love that we're actually talking about "Guys and Dolls" because has there ever been a show with more clearly drawn characters? And I think that this show is just forever young.

[9:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, I think so too. And it's funny because it's definitely of an era. And I think what we're talking about is the finely drawn characters and the energy of it. It really comes from the source material, which Damon Runyon in his stories, you know, he was known by critics as someone who puts a funny hat on a hitman, you know, you know, he's, he's writing about people that aren't, you know, aren't the, you know, most upstanding people in the world by any means, but they sure are fun to watch on stage, you know, exactly. So much of what we consume in our entertainment and culture is directly inspired by Damon Runyon. And I think we have no idea anytime that we have this likable character who is a denizen or a gangster or, you know, a mob guy, but he speaks like a gentleman.

[9:59] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Right. And it's also, it's also one of the layers that's added onto that is, is there are a bunch of people who are trying to put on a certain facade. They're trying to appear to be maybe more gentlemanly than they are. So they're doing their best, you know, a couple of Damon Runyon tidbits that I've found interesting. Do you know Damon Runyon was, was born in Manhattan, but did you know that it's not Manhattan, New York City?

[10:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay. Yes.

[10:19] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Damon Runyon was born in Manhattan, Kansas. And he didn't, he like discovered New York late in his life.

[10:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. I believe so. He came a bit late to, to New York. And so he's a, he's a really great example of someone who just kind of came in and like opened his eyes and ears and like got the vibe of what was going on and then wrote about it. And then also when people want to honor someone or a, or an event or something like that, they'll put a name on a, on a stretch of, of a street in, in their honor. For instance, a 44th street between Broadway and eighth Avenue was called, I think it's called Rogers and Hammerstein way, because that was where the majority of their musicals opened at the, either the St. James or the Broadhurst or the majestic. But then there's a stretch between eighth Avenue and ninth Avenue, right in the heart of Midtown. That's called Damon Runyon way.

[11:06] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Yeah. Which, and then I've found out stories about that particular stretch of street that that 45th street is the line of demarcation between upper Midtown and lower Midtown police precincts. And so if someone is, let's say, in, in current, you know, situations, if someone is doing a drug deal on one side of the street and the police come, and if they can just get to the other side of the street, usually the amount of paperwork that that police officer will have to do to transfer the crime from one precinct to the other. It's just not worth it.

[11:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. That's so Damon Runyon.

[11:48] Justin Squiggs Robertson: It really is. It's a fun little stretch, but that's Damon Runyon way. How cute.

[11:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. When I think of modern Damon Runyon representation, I immediately think of "My Cousin Vinny," which is one of my favorite movies because Marissa Tomei has a biological clock that's ticking like this. And, but you got these characters who are hilarious, but also are not entirely honest and you don't care because their hearts are in the right place.

[12:19] Justin Squiggs Robertson: Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, the ends justify the means sometimes, I guess. Yeah. When it comes to characters like that. From Runyon's short stories came all of these different characters and the producers Cy Fuhrer and Ernest Martin saw them as possibly being a great musical. And the reason is because of "South Pacific." So "South Pacific" was this huge, huge hit.

[12:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. Yeah.

[12:40] Justin Squiggs Robertson: And was essentially the story of Nellie Forbush and Emile DeBeck, who seemed to be from completely different sides of the world and yet fell in love and found a way to be together. And in one of Runyon's stories with the idol of Miss Sarah Brown, you had kind of a similar dynamic. You had Miss Sarah Brown, who was an evangelical Christian versus Skye Masterson, who's this ladies man gangster. What if they fall in love? And so "Guys and Dolls" was supposed to be more of a musical drama in the way that "South Pacific" was so much so that the producers hired Joe Swerling to write the script. And Joe Swerling was a Hollywood guy. He wrote a lot of great old older films, "Pride of the Yankees," "Lifeboat." I think he even has some uncredited work on "Gone with the Wind." And it was in his contract that no matter what happened to the show, his name would always be attached to.

[13:51] Justin Squigs Robertson: But once they realized that this show was not a drama, it needed to be a comedy, they kind of threw out the entire script and hired on Abe Burroughs, who was this very famous comedy writer on radio and then later on television. And he came in and rewrote the script. But still, to this day, when you see who GUYS AND DOLLS was written by, it says Joe Swerling and Abe Burroughs. But all of the comedy is thanks to Mr. Burroughs, not thanks to Mr. Gone with the Wind.

[14:21] Justin Squigs Robertson: Then for the score, the producers hired Frank Lesser. Now, let's do a little dive on Frank Lesser, who I just love. He, I think, is one of the great composers of the American musical theater. And also one of the most diverse, maybe? Each of his shows sounds very different from the next. And yet he still has these great hallmarks to his work.

[14:47] Justin Squigs Robertson: So he's born in New York to a Jewish family. His father is a classical pianist. It seems that from a very early age, Frank has a great ear for the piano. He loves to sit down and play any tune that he hears. However, he could not be less interested in classical music. And so much to the chagrin of his dad, he decides to go into pop music.

[15:11] Justin Squigs Robertson: So he starts really kind of breaking into the music world as a lyricist. And even though he was in New York, he somehow gets noticed and starts working in Hollywood for films. He writes for like 40 films. It's insane how much work he did in Hollywood. Some of his early work as a lyricist includes Heart and Souls, which, hey, we have a plaid connection. I just put that together. We both did plaid together.

[15:38] Justin Squigs Robertson: But Heart and Souls, I Fell in Love with You is a Frank Lesser lyric. Then World War II happens. He joins the armed forces. And while he's there, he starts writing music and lyrics for morale.

[15:55] Justin Squigs Robertson: And patriotic songs.

[16:25] Justin Squigs Robertson: Which is probably one of the biggest songs ever. It wins an Academy Award because it was actually from a film, I didn't realize.

[16:31] Justin Squigs Robertson: Regarding that song, it's obviously become a controversial thing in recent years. Because out of context, it's a rather predatory song in the era of the Me Too movement and just being a decent human being.

[16:47] Justin Squigs Robertson: But in context, he wrote it as a song that you pull out at a dinner party and people gather around the piano and sing. And he would sing this song with his wife, Lynn Garland, I think was her name.

[17:02] Justin Squigs Robertson: And it was that wink wink, nudge nudge thing where they're already married, but it's almost like they're kind of role playing. It's like, don't go away, let's canoodle, kind of a thing.

[17:13] Justin Squigs Robertson: And so when he sold that song, I think it was the movie Neptune's Daughter.

[17:20] Justin Squigs Robertson: Way to pick that one out.

[17:22] Justin Squigs Robertson: I know. I read it somewhere.

[17:25] Justin Squigs Robertson: But she was angry at Frank for selling their song.

[17:30] Justin Squigs Robertson: So it was like, this is our thing. And then he sold it to the theater. And then he ended up winning an Academy Award for it.

[17:38] Justin Squigs Robertson: So in other words, it's not a song meant for a first date.

[17:43] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, well, specifically written for Frank and Lynn to sing together at dinner parties. And then it just became something else.

[17:51] Justin Squigs Robertson: But what is it about Frank Lesser and getting ladies drunk? Because Sarah has a bunch of those Dulce de Leches.

[17:59] Justin Squigs Robertson: It's a different era. I mean, 1950 was when Guys and Dolls came out.

[18:05] Justin Squigs Robertson: You know what? There are times, it's always on a weekend, I don't know why, but I suddenly have this impulse to watch I Love Lucy.

[18:16] Justin Squigs Robertson: And so sometimes I'm just in the mood for something like I Love Lucy and I Love Lucy is the only thing that will hit the spot. I don't know if that makes sense.

[18:25] Justin Squigs Robertson: Totally.

[18:26] Justin Squigs Robertson: They have all of the episodes on Hulu. So I'll just put it on. And I've seen all of them a gajillion times.

[18:33] Justin Squigs Robertson: But you look at it and I mean, yeah, it's kind of racist. They're constantly making fun of him for being Latino.

[18:41] Justin Squigs Robertson: It's a little misogynistic because she's always this nagging wife and the guys are trying to control them.

[18:48] Justin Squigs Robertson: But then at the same time, I have to put myself back in that place. And I think, were there any other Latinos on television? No.

[18:56] Justin Squigs Robertson: That's a huge representation. Were there any females who owned their own production companies and starred in their own shows? No.

[19:05] Justin Squigs Robertson: Very true.

[19:07] Justin Squigs Robertson: Huge female empowerment. And I feel the same way about that as I do Guys and Dolls.

[19:13] Justin Squigs Robertson: Where, man, Guys and Dolls will always be the answer when I want to experience something like Guys and Dolls.

[19:21] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh yeah, true. It really speaks of its era. It was right there firmly in the middle of the golden age of Broadway. 1950, boom.

[19:33] Justin Squigs Robertson: It was still an era when the songs of a musical would be on the pop charts and be recorded by so many people.

[19:42] Justin Squigs Robertson: I mean, there's so many recordings of Luck Be A Lady and I'll Know.

[19:47] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, it's one of those handful of shows that really kind of say classic Broadway.

[19:54] Justin Squigs Robertson: Also, an interesting I Love Lucy and Frank Lesser tie-in. You may know where I'm going with this.

[20:00] Justin Squigs Robertson: There's that episode of I Love Lucy when they have tickets to go see The Most Happy Fellow, which is a later Frank Lesser musical.

[20:07] Justin Squigs Robertson: So you hear the musical going on, but the scene takes place in the lobby of the theater.

[20:12] Justin Squigs Robertson: Well, from what I understand, Lucy was an investor in The Most Happy Fellow.

[20:15] Justin Squigs Robertson: You're kidding. I didn't know that.

[20:18] Justin Squigs Robertson: I'm pretty sure that's what I heard. I could be pulling that right out of my booty.

[20:22] Justin Squigs Robertson: But I'm pretty sure that I heard that she was an investor and that was one of the reasons that they featured it on the show.

[20:27] Justin Squigs Robertson: It's like in the days when Camelot got an appearance on the Ed Sullivan Theater, it turned ticket sales around.

[20:33] Justin Squigs Robertson: It was doing poorly and then the next day after the Ed Sullivan show, there were lines around the block.

[20:39] Justin Squigs Robertson: So Frank Lesser works with the producers before Guys and Dolls in creating Where's Charlie, which is this hit show featuring Ray Bolger.

[20:49] Justin Squigs Robertson: His hit song, Once in Love with Amy.

[20:52] Justin Squigs Robertson: So that's what kind of gets him the job for Guys and Dolls.

[20:56] Justin Squigs Robertson: I think that it's this perfect fit because Frank Lesser is both able to create these really heartfelt, gorgeous melodies and also be the most clever lyricist you've ever heard.

[21:05] Justin Squigs Robertson: That match of heart and wit is exactly what's found in Damon Runyon's original works.

[21:19] Justin Squigs Robertson: You'll know at a glance by the two pair of pants.

[21:22] Justin Squigs Robertson: I mean, come on. Right?

[21:25] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, I know. Yeah.

[21:27] Justin Squigs Robertson: I love that I can hear a police siren outside.

[21:32] Justin Squigs Robertson: It feels very New York to be talking about Guys and Dolls.

[21:35] Justin Squigs Robertson: It becomes a huge hit. It opens in 1950.

[21:39] Justin Squigs Robertson: It runs for 1,200 performances, which is incredible for that time.

[21:44] Justin Squigs Robertson: Like you said, spawns many hit songs.

[21:47] Justin Squigs Robertson: That original cast album is still so good.

[21:51] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh, absolutely. I actually listened to it just a little bit before we chatted, and I was like,

[21:56] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh, this is a really well-made cast album.

[22:01] Justin Squigs Robertson: It really encapsulates that era.

[22:04] Justin Squigs Robertson: The show continues to be revived over and over throughout Broadway history,

[22:09] Justin Squigs Robertson: including a very famous all-black cast in the 70s, which was very cool.

[22:17] Justin Squigs Robertson: Robert Guillaume.

[22:18] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yes, Robert Guillaume.

[22:20] Justin Squigs Robertson: Ernestine Jackson.

[22:22] Justin Squigs Robertson: Ken Page, who we all love as, of course, Old Deuteronomy, was nicely, nicely.

[22:29] Justin Squigs Robertson: And Oogie Boogie.

[22:31] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oogie Boogie, of course. Oh, my gosh. Why wasn't that my first one?

[22:35] Justin Squigs Robertson: I guess the last thing I want to touch on before we actually go through the show is the 1992 Broadway revival, which opened to rave reviews with an all-star cast,

[22:45] Justin Squigs Robertson: including Nathan Lane and Faith Prince, who won the Tony Award.

[22:49] Justin Squigs Robertson: Peter Gallagher, who obviously was famous from TV film, playing Skye Masterson,

[22:55] Justin Squigs Robertson: and I think is responsible for the huge uptick in revivals as being colossal hits.

[23:03] Justin Squigs Robertson: Absolutely. I mean, revivals were huge right around that era.

[23:08] Justin Squigs Robertson: We were coming out of the 80s, which was the British invasion,

[23:12] Justin Squigs Robertson: and we had fewer and fewer American musicals.

[23:16] Justin Squigs Robertson: And then 1992 comes around, and it's Crazy for You,

[23:20] Justin Squigs Robertson: which is a reworking of Girl Crazy and using Gershwin music to form a whole new show.

[23:26] Justin Squigs Robertson: And then you've also got Guys and Dolls in this big, glorious new production.

[23:33] Justin Squigs Robertson: And everybody realizes how much they've missed these classics.

[23:39] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, yeah.

[23:40] Justin Squigs Robertson: And from there on out, boy, revivals really get hit hard,

[23:45] Justin Squigs Robertson: which is both a good thing and maybe a not-so-good thing.

[23:49] Justin Squigs Robertson: But I'd like to think it's more good than bad.

[23:53] Justin Squigs Robertson: No, I think so, too. I mean, people are still creating new shows and new things to see.

[23:59] Justin Squigs Robertson: But sometimes, again, it's that kind of escapism. It's a bit of comfort food.

[24:04] Justin Squigs Robertson: Sometimes that's what theater needs to be, is comfort food.

[24:07] Justin Squigs Robertson: And then we've had a number of revivals that have happened in recent years.

[24:13] Justin Squigs Robertson: People are kind of experimenting and seeing what else can be said.

[24:16] Justin Squigs Robertson: It's almost like shows like that are becoming kind of like Shakespeare,

[24:21] Justin Squigs Robertson: where you set it in a different setting, and it might say something different.

[24:26] Justin Squigs Robertson: That's fascinating. So it's almost like in the 90s,

[24:29] Justin Squigs Robertson: we turned to revivals to remind ourselves of our musical theater tradition, our history.

[24:35] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh, definitely, yeah.

[24:37] Justin Squigs Robertson: And then now, say like post-2010, we're turning to revivals to maybe examine

[24:46] Justin Squigs Robertson: and look at our history and see what that means for our present.

[24:51] Justin Squigs Robertson: Right, right. It's kind of like picking up something and dissecting it.

[24:56] Justin Squigs Robertson: And that's maybe what's happening with some of the revivals these days,

[25:00] Justin Squigs Robertson: is kind of just deconstructing it and putting it back together.

[25:03] Justin Squigs Robertson: There will always be people, and I'm partly fall in this category,

[25:08] Justin Squigs Robertson: but sometimes I just want to go in the theater and I want to see a show

[25:12] Justin Squigs Robertson: as it was written and with that glorious orchestra.

[25:17] Justin Squigs Robertson: Orchestration, yep.

[25:19] Justin Squigs Robertson: And bright and colorful.

[25:21] Justin Squigs Robertson: But on the other hand, too, I love the fact that the work that we love so much

[25:26] Justin Squigs Robertson: can be put through a different filter and seen as something else.

[25:29] Justin Squigs Robertson: Absolutely. There's a sense of play there that I definitely don't want to destroy

[25:36] just because my preferences may lie somewhere else.

[25:39] Justin Squigs Robertson: Right, right.

[25:41] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, that's so true. Agreed. Agreed!

[25:44] Justin Squigs Robertson: Great, let's go through the show, shall we?

[25:46] Justin Squigs Robertson: Okay.

[25:48] Justin Squigs Robertson: The show begins with this great Runyonland sequence in which we see all of our archetypes.

[25:53] Justin Squigs Robertson: We see a bustling day in New York City with gamblers and police officers and malls and sailors and boxers.

[26:05] Justin Squigs Robertson: Just every kind of colorful character that you could imagine walking around the city.

[26:09] Justin Squigs Robertson: Set firmly in Times Square area.

[26:12] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yes, which then gives way to the opening number, which is called Fugue for Tin Horns.

[26:17] Justin Squigs Robertson: Fugue for Tin Horns.

[26:19] Justin Squigs Robertson: And it's three guys who are looking at who they're betting on at the tracks, right?

[26:25] Justin Squigs Robertson: Right, yep.

[26:27] Justin Squigs Robertson: And we got Nicely Nicely.

[26:29] Justin Squigs Robertson: We got Benny South Street.

[26:31] Justin Squigs Robertson: All these guys have these names that are not actual names.

[26:35] Justin Squigs Robertson: It's like they're drag names.

[26:37] Justin Squigs Robertson: Kind of, yeah.

[26:39] Justin Squigs Robertson: Well, did you know that Nicely Nicely Johnson in the original Runyon stories was Nicely Nicely Jones?

[26:45] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh.

[26:47] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, and I'm not sure, other than just maybe the way the cadence lies, that maybe Johnson is better.

[26:51] Justin Squigs Robertson: You needed one more syllable.

[26:53] Justin Squigs Robertson: One more syllable. Nicely Nicely Johnson.

[26:57] Justin Squigs Robertson: The third guy in this little trio about the horse races is named Rusty Charlie, who I played at Moonlight Amphitheater.

[27:07] Justin Squigs Robertson: And you get to start out the show and then you're never heard from ever again.

[27:12] Justin Squigs Robertson: It's true, it's true.

[27:13] Justin Squigs Robertson: Did you come back as one of the other gamblers in the campaign?

[27:17] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, I was Rusty Charlie slash dancer.

[27:21] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh, gotcha.

[27:23] Justin Squigs Robertson: I think at various times I've been in this show, he comes back as Liver Lips Louie.

[27:28] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh, I think I also did Joey Biltmore.

[27:32] Justin Squigs Robertson: I did the phone call.

[27:34] Justin Squigs Robertson: You're the voice?

[27:36] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah.

[27:37] Justin Squigs Robertson: He shows up because they need a third voice on the trio, and then he goes away.

[27:40] Justin Squigs Robertson: No, we don't really need you.

[27:41] Justin Squigs Robertson: You've done Nicely Nicely three times, right?

[27:44] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, yeah, yeah three times, twice in 1996 and then once in 2018. So yeah, and do you have any favorite bits or just kind of moments? You know, as far as how it's written or yeah, just I guess the character. Well, the fact that he's late named nicely nicely. It's clear that he is not one of the most ruthless of the, you know, the underbelly of Times Square. He's really he's a gopher. He's the message boy for Nathan Detroit. But of course, you know, sit down you rock in the boat is always fun. You know, anytime you get to do the 11 o'clock number is a treat and seriously.

[28:20] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, so out of this fun opening number, we then see miss Sarah and the mission band is to do one of their like 18 crosses across the stage singing, singing follow the fold which they are this evangelical group trying to save all of these sinners in New York City from going to hell, right? I have always had the feeling that she's in charge of this particular save a soul mission and then, you know, general Cartwright who comes in later is obviously, you know, one of the heads of the organization and you know, it's thinly veiled being the, you know, Salvation Army, you know, right which has, you know, huge headquarters here in New York City. It was definitely a part of the culture back in that time period and what's funny is that guys and dolls was kind of like current? I mean, I mean it was think about that. These were the kind of characters that people in the audience at the theater would have recognized from just a decade before, right?

[29:21] Justin Squigs Robertson: We next meet Nathan Detroit who is known in the community for running this illegal floating crap game. For those who don't know craps what you you're like roll dice and make bets on whether or not you'll roll a specific number. You can tell I'm so good at gambling. Yeah, I don't really know craps myself, but whatever it is, it's gambling and it's illegal and so in order to make sure that he's able to continue on with this little business, the crap game moves to different locations. It can't be in the same place or else then the police officer known as lieutenant Branigan will shut it down. This leads to the song the oldest established permanent floating crap game in New York, which I think is just such a fantastic lyric. It's really a cool song.

[30:12] Justin Squigs Robertson: One of the things that Nathan is running into is that in order to move his crap game to the place where he wants to hold it, which is at Joey Biltmore's garage, you know, kind of like this car shop sort of thing, he needs to give him a thousand dollar security deposit, but he's got no money. So he wants to create a thousand dollar bet against Sky Masterson who's a gambler and you know a dashing good-looking crooning gambler, of course, but he's a gambler who's known to gamble on anything, right? He can't, right? He can't not go for the bet. And so what he decides, what Nathan decides is that Nathan's going to bet that Sky Masterson has to take a woman of his choice to dinner in Havana, Cuba, right? Or, or I don't think he even specifies the location, I think he just, you know, was it just dinner? I think it was just taken, you know, take a doll out for a date. My gosh and Cuba was Sky Masterson's idea.

[31:18] Justin Squigs Robertson: He's actually so he is, yeah, he had style. I mean, you know, he was also known as a guy you don't want to bet with unless you have, you know, an absolute prize angle on a bet. And so Nathan does feel that he has the perfect angle because the girl that he picks is miss Sarah with the save a soul mission, which I mean obviously someone like Sky Masterson is never going to get that dame to fall in love with them. So boom, there's a thousand dollars everything's gonna be fine, right? But little does he know how smooth Sky Masterson is. What Sky Masterson promises miss Sarah is that he will provide her with one dozen genuine sinners for her mission if she goes to dinner with him. She of course says absolutely not that that is not what she's into. In fact, when she does marry a man, he's going to be upright and moral and then she sings my white knight.

[32:17] Justin Squigs Robertson: I mean, I'll know. Have you discussed music man already on your? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's rumored that Frank Loesser ghost wrote my white knight, but Frank Loesser later in his career he became this mentor to so many up-and-coming Broadway composers like Meredith Wilson and so his reach is far greater than just his own shows regardless of whether or not he wrote my white knight and you hear that by the kinds of things that he explores with I'll know which is a gorgeous song that both Sarah and Sky sing talking about the way that they'll recognize the person they want to be with. For Sarah, it's someone who's upright and moral and for Sky. It's chemistry.

[33:04] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, chemistry. Yeah, chemistry. So now we go to this nightclub where Nathan's girlfriend, I mean she is his fiancée, right? They're just not married. They've been engaged for, yeah, 14 years. Yes. Yeah, so they've been engaged and she's a nightclub performer kind of a classy stripper. I mean is she a stripper? I mean she dances without many clothes on. Yeah, no, exactly. I think there were lines of demarcation again in entertainment and you could be a little bawdy, a little naughty, you know, still be upright entertainment. But I have a feeling that the hotbox club is not necessarily the classiest of joints. The hotbox club is the musical comedy version of the Kit Kat Club.

[33:50] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, kind of, yeah. So we meet Adelaide in this number Bushnell and Peck, which is of course a famous song and you learn it when you're a child because it's got that just fun almost nursery rhyme quality to it and we learn after her number when she talks to Nathan that like you said, they've been together 14 years and what's really funny is that even though she's this kind of brassy nightclub performer all she wants to do is get married and Nathan's holding out on her so much so that it has caused her to have a cold like she can't get rid of this darn cold and it's perplexing enough that she wants to learn why she has this cold.

[34:30] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, which I think so she's reading which is which is another great Damon Runyon slash Frank Lesser marriage in heaven where this quote-unquote dumb blonde is reading medical textbooks to figure out her romantic problems, you know, it's just it's so smart and fun and it's called Adelaide's lament talking about characters that shouldn't be reading sky uses scripture passages to show Sarah that he knows what he's talking about as far as the Bible goes and right well that passage in Isaiah and his explanation is that you know, what's been in every hotel room across the country Sky Masterson and the Gideon Bible. So it's like Adelaide reading medical textbooks about her, you know, her situation and then Sky being stuck in hotel rooms reading the Bible.

[35:25] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, that's so true. Good point. Okay, so now we got like these. Oh, is this when we find out that Adelaide's been lying to her mother? Yeah, she's been lying to her mother and says essentially that she and Nathan were married years ago and then eventually had a child and then another child and then more children and I think six kids or something. Yeah, it's like they have five kids with one on the way. Yeah. Yeah, five kids with one on the way. And so it's like it shows just how maybe not forward-thinking Adelaide is because eventually mom's gonna, you know, want to visit? Yeah, so Nathan's like how am I gonna explain all these kids? She's also told her that he's an assistant manager at an AMP which he's like, how do I provide for this family with this job? You didn't even make me the manager.

[36:12] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh, it's so great out of Adelaide's lament because we have Adelaide and Nathan and Sarah and Sky, nicely nicely and Benny South Street appear to talk about how it seems like nowadays if there's anything happening in someone's life. It's usually because of romantic drama. Yeah, the song guys and dolls. Yeah, and you know, it's essentially the whole scope of things with dealing with dolls, you know, it's gonna mess up your life and in that sort of thing. So yeah, this almost feels like a step out vaudeville type thing.

[36:51] Justin Squigs Robertson: Sure, sure there are still remnants of vaudeville which preceded musical theater in some of these older shows and I think that guys and dolls the number guys and dolls is a great example of that also to you know, the hotbox numbers that happen they obviously happen in the story of the show but those are those are essentially the vaudeville the burlesque kind of nuts to stand out numbers. Those particular numbers are like a show within the show. You know guys and dolls is different that song guys and dolls is different because it is that type of song but it's integrated into, you know, the story, the story.

[37:24] Justin Squigs Robertson: We next meet general Cartwright who you mentioned is the leader of kind of the entire organization who visits the specific mission that Sarah and her grandfather oversee and it's not going well, the numbers aren't good. Yeah, and so she kind of says that they need to close down the branch unless they get some sinners to show up to the next big revival meeting and ding, that's the moment when Sarah realizes if I go on this dinner date with Sky, we'll get the sinners to the revival and everything will be fine. So that's the moment when she decides okay dinner it is. Meanwhile, Nathan still can't find the spot for the game because he doesn't have the thousand dollars and it looks like he won't get the thousand dollars because Sarah's gonna go on the dinner date.

[38:18] Justin Squigs Robertson: To make matters worse, he gets word that these notorious gangsters from Chicago specifically one named Big Julie are wanting to secure a spot for the game and so things are kind of getting worse and worse there. Now, let's skip I guess to Havana. Yeah, yeah, it's so funny that she's like, where are we gonna go? It's like, you know, Havana, go to Cuba, jet set. Yeah, another I love Lucy tie-in Ricky Ricardo. Who knew man?

[38:47] Justin Squigs Robertson: So they go to Havana and in many of the productions of guys and dolls I've seen I'm just putting this out there if you're going to do a production of guys and dolls please get specific about why you have Havana dancers. It's very true. I mean there is dance music built into the show. Yes, and often when I've done the show it's been suddenly we just have like a town square full of people in frilly sleeves partnering and it makes most sense when they're people who'd be there like the cafe, you know the waiters, the waitstaff, the bartenders, that sort of a thing if they're doing like a floor show at the restaurant.

[39:25] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, exactly. It could be the, you know, Havana's version of the hot box, you know, kind of a thing or if you are in the same way that, you know, Damon Runyon is coloring Manhattan if you're coloring Havana as this place where all of the locals are constantly dancing like play that up too, the nice beat drops and you're like lights up on Washington Heights.

[39:49] Justin Squigs Robertson: Okay, so miss Sarah orders a milkshake because she's a goody-goody and unfortunately, she doesn't realize it has Bacardi in it. So like you mentioned in baby, it's cold outside say what's in this drink? Bacardi Bacardi, baby. It is pretty, you know, if you really stop to think about it Sky Masterson really doesn't tell her that there's booze in this beverage and she really likes it so she keeps ordering more and he's like, well, you know what? She's gonna have a great time. And the next thing you know, she's splashing her dressing.

[40:31] Justin Squigs Robertson: She is which is a lyric and if I were a bell so yeah, which is a great song. I honestly think that miss Sarah is the most difficult role in the show because you have to be enough of a comedian to play drunk amusingly while also being uptight enough to play the other side of Sarah, you know, yeah, meanwhile, you're singing soprano II but then also have the opportunity and if I were a bell to really let loose like it's a sure you it's a really interesting and complex character.

[41:01] Justin Squigs Robertson: Very true, very true and it's, you know, it's like, you know, some characters like nicely and Benny or are painted with much broader strokes, which then inspires I think sky to have a little bit of nuance himself. He feels guilty maybe even just feels like somebody needs to take care of her. And so he doesn't take advantage of her in fact, he essentially gets her out of there to make sure that she's okay and they arrived back in New York in the early, early morning and Sarah has sobered up and Sky decides.

[42:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Turn of events in which they've shown each other sides of themselves that they've shown to no one else that it's led to a love and a connection. Unfortunately, that was a quick end, when they get to her mission, Nathan has been holding his crap game there and all of the Gamblers run out. So now she thinks that Skye took her to Havana to make sure that the Gamblers could then use the mission and end of Act One.

[42:38] Justin Squigs Robertson: What kind of doll are you anyway? I'm a mission doll, Curtin. Sometimes you can only say those things in the theater and then you just have to embrace it and live it up.

[42:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely. All right, so Act Two starts and we're back to the hot box where Adelaide is performing "Take Back Your Mink." She realizes that Nathan's never going to change because he's still doing the crap game instead of getting serious and marrying her, right?

[43:09] Justin Squigs Robertson: Well, it's also pretty brilliant that "Take Back Your Mink" is a jilted lover telling off her former lover, you tried to bribe me with all these things and take them back. I don't need them anymore. You're done. You know, kind of a thing. So the song that's in the club, in the show, within the show mirrors what's happening in the show.

[43:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're exactly right. And it just so happens by being angry and saying, "Take Back Your Mink," you're literally taking off your clothes.

[43:36] Justin Squigs Robertson: Exactly. And that's brilliant. Such a multi-layered, silly number.

[43:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, absolutely. Next up, Sarah turns to her grandpa and says, I really loved this guy and he's hurt me. And he gives this wonderful advice of, you know, the only thing I want for you more than anything is for you to be happy and follow your heart. And it's a really, really sweet moment.

[44:02] Justin Squigs Robertson: It really is. It's such a lovely song. And occasionally in productions, it gets cut, which I'm really against. I really love this moment. And it really, I think, helps with Sarah's arc. She has the support of her grandfather, who obviously she loves and looks up to. And in the situation that they're in, in this morality organization, it's like maybe things aren't as cut and dried as, you know, you might be led to believe that, yeah, if this is the right person for you, then it's the right person for you. If this person makes you happy, then go for it.

[44:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's really sweet. It's moments like that where you're like, oh, yeah, they may have been trying to take a more serious approach to this musical.

[44:46] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, it seems like it might be something out of the Joe Swerling era.

[44:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Incarnation.

[44:52] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah. Then we head down to the sewer because since Nathan Detroit once again has no money, can't hold his crapshoot anywhere else, they have decided to go to the sewer.

[45:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, the pivotal scene where Nicely Nicely comes to the hotbox to give the message to Sky that, yeah, that the game's going on. Award-winning moment.

[45:18] Justin Squigs Robertson: This gives away to an act two Dream Ballet, essentially, which is the crapshooters dance. And all of the men get to perform this gambling ballet, which is really exciting and fun. It's also very long and then gives way to one of the longest scenes, I believe, in a musical, which is this whole gambling scene in the sewer with Big Julie, the Chicago guy and all of the other gamblers and hooligans.

[45:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, Big Julie really wants to win, but he's losing, so the crap game has been going on for hours and hours and Big Julie won't let it stop, right?

[46:00] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, he's a sore loser, doesn't want to lose, not going to lose. And he's an imposing figure, so everyone's scared of this guy.

[46:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Make way for Nicely Nicely and Sky Masterson, who show up, and Sky kind of takes over. Everybody respects him. He gives Nathan $1,000 because he's really sad about Sarah.

[46:25] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, he essentially lies to... I mean, he did take the doll to dinner, but he gives him $1,000. Technically, he won the bet, but in his heart, he doesn't feel like he won, so he gives back the money.

[46:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. And then how does he get Big Julie to shut it down?

[46:43] Justin Squigs Robertson: Well, I think that the money gets gambled away because of Big Julie, and that's when Sky says, OK, I'm going to roll you all for your souls.

[46:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, right, right, right. This is like his last-ditch effort to maybe get Sarah.

[46:56] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, so it's like he needs to get... to roll against their souls, so everyone puts up a marker, which is an IOU for their souls, basically saying they'll promise to go to this meeting if they lose. And if he loses, then he has to pay them each $1,000.

[47:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, so this is high-stakes game. $1,000 in 1950?

[47:22] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, times however many are there. That's pretty crazy.

[47:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Depending on how big your cast is.

[47:28] Justin Squigs Robertson: Fair enough. Then that gives way to "Luck Be A Lady."

[47:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, another song, which I first heard because Barbara Streisand recorded it, and my mom had that cassette tape.

[47:38] Justin Squigs Robertson: He tosses the dice, and he wins, so the gamblers all have to go to the mission. On the way, Nathan runs into Adelaide, and she's like, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm sorry, baby, I have to go to attend a prayer meeting. And she's like, why won't you stop lying?

[47:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I know. Finally, when he's telling the truth. And they have this great number called "Sue Me." Now, this is the only moment in the whole show when Nathan Detroit sings, because the original guy, Sam Levine, couldn't sing. But he has this really great duet with Adelaide.

[48:14] Justin Squigs Robertson: Once again, the contradictions of these characters. So "Sue Me, I love you."

[48:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, but what's funny about the singing thing is that when the movie was made, Frank Sinatra wanted to play Skye Masterson, but once they got Brando, they offered Nathan Detroit to Sinatra, who of course is known for his voice. Then they wrote extra material for him to sing in the movie.

[48:37] Justin Squigs Robertson: So it's a song, Adelaide, I think. Adelaide, ever loving Adelaide. But yeah, it definitely wasn't written as a singing role originally.

[48:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that's an interesting film. There are some things that I'm really glad are on film, and then other things I'm like, wow, totally missed the boat.

[48:54] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, well, I mean, some of the leads that did make it to the movie, like Vivian Blaine and Stubby Kaye, which is always nice to see theater folk get represented in the film version.

[49:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. So now we're at the mission, and much to Sarah's surprise, here comes all of these gamblers, and the place is full. General Cartwright is thrilled to see so many sinners coming to see the light, and she asks them to testify of their sins. This is the moment where all these guys have to at least put on a decent face at this mission meeting to follow through on Skye's marker with Miss Sarah.

[49:33] Justin Squigs Robertson: So yeah, it becomes this situation where everyone is putting on a good face, basically pretending to be penitent, and it eventually goes down the line to Nicely Nicely song cue sort of a thing. So yeah, this character makes up a dream that he gets everyone all whipped up into a frenzy.

[49:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is so cool that a secondary character like this gets the 11 o'clock number.

[49:58] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, yeah, it is pretty wild. And it's a big showstopper.

[50:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure, and at the time, a character actor like Stubby Kaye was a star of the theater, so it's like a beloved character played by a beloved character actor gets this moment, and then thanks to Stubby, lots of character men have gotten to have that moment on stage.

[50:21] Justin Squigs Robertson: So then after the number, the police officer shows up and threatens to arrest everybody because of the crap game in the mission. However, Sarah sticks up for them all, and then after the police officer leaves, Nathan actually does confess to his sins that the crap game was there.

[50:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And as he's talking to Sarah, he says, the reason that I had to hold it here was because I had this bet against Sky about taking Sarah to Havana.

[50:53] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, Nathan said that he won the bet because the guy could not take the doll.

[50:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. So yeah, so basically she finds out that Sky was on the up and up.

[51:02] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, and was trying to protect her reputation and everything.

[51:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. Which now has thrown her even deeper into the, like, I really want to be with him. And now is this, it's interesting because "Sit Down, You're Rocking the Boat" is the 11 o'clock number. And yet, right after this whole scene into "Marry the Man Today" almost feels like an 11 o'clock scene.

[51:26] Justin Squigs Robertson: It's true. It's true. Yeah. And it's essentially these two women who have, obviously, each of them have known what they've wanted. They've expressed that in "I'll Know" and in Adelaide's Lament. And now they're kind of coming together.

[51:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's also, again, of its era. Like, all of the allusions, all the allegory that they use to talk about holding a man and keeping a man and stuff is all stuff about, like, dresses and grocery shopping and things that women were meant to be doing at the time.

[51:54] Justin Squigs Robertson: For sure. But still, it's like, they end up, you know, getting what they want. The song is definitely a play on what we do when we're like, you know, maybe they'll change after we get married.

[52:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, right. So you see how badly they want to be with the person that they love. All the meanwhile, we as an audience member know exactly what that's like.

[52:18] Justin Squigs Robertson: Sure. So after that great number is the finale.

[52:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's like the final scene when, you know, when you realize that Nathan Detroit has taken on a respectable job at the newsstand. Out comes Adelaide from a really fast costume change in her wedding dress and is like, Nathan, you're late. We're getting married. And he's like, I'm coming, I'm coming.

[52:46] Justin Squigs Robertson: He comes to her and right then out comes the Mission Band doing their 18th cross of "Follow the Fold."

[52:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. But playing the drum is none other than Mr. Skye Masterson.

[53:00] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yes. And we see these two couples and it seems like the women have won.

[53:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. But, you know, there's that little wink and a nudge at the end, too, because, you know, they still talk in gambler speak, you know, the guys at the end.

[53:15] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh, sure. You know, it's a happy ending, but I wonder if these guys are going to be sneaking out to be shooting some craps.

[53:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Of course, of course. Damn and runnin'. It's an adorable show. And like I said, I think it's forever young.

[53:27] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, yeah, it's classic. But again, like it's like Broadway comfort food, you know, for those who have grown up with those cast albums and, you know, that sort of thing. And sometimes you have to force feed yourself a little bit because I haven't listened to the cast album of "Guys and Dolls" for quite some time, if I'm being completely honest. But then because I had an excuse to do so in preparing for this episode, I turn it on and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is great.

[53:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yeah. Just little reminders.

[53:55] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah, you're exactly right. I think it's really important to remind ourselves how great some of these shows are.

[54:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yeah. It's a show that's kept on giving and giving over the years.

[54:04] Justin Squigs Robertson: Yeah. So that's "Guys and Dolls."

[54:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Ta-da. Thank you so much for doing this.

[54:10] Justin Squigs Robertson: Oh my gosh. This is great.

[54:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have any recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on "A Musical Theatre Podcast," you can always email me at amusicalpodcast@gmail.com. Also, be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at amusicalpodcast for more great content. Hey, Squigs, how do we follow you?

[54:28] Justin Squigs Robertson: I am on Instagram at Squigs Robertson, S-Q-U-I-G-S Robertson. Same on Twitter and on Facebook. I'm Squigs Knows His Lines.

[54:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Everybody check out his incredible work. And oh, you know, while you're at it, go to our T Public Store for "A Musical Theatre Podcast" where we have some pretty great designs, too, all celebrating some of our favorite moments from episodes past and present.

[54:55] Justin Squigs Robertson: Nice.

[54:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: To all of you out there, you know what? Go force yourself to listen to something old and maybe you'll find that it's actually something new. Have a great day, everybody.

[55:07] Justin Squigs Robertson: Bye.

[55:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Bye.