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[0:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: By the way, I should have begun this entire episode with, like, a political asterisk. Like, there is no way to not talk about politics with this musical. I mean, and we shouldn't shy away from it. It asks the questions. I don't, again, I'm not one, even as a theatre maker and as a human, to offer any answers. I'm more interested in the question. I'm more interested in us exploring together what might the answer be, and to explore the potential answer. Because if we had the answers, we wouldn't be repeating the same stuff we've been doing for decades.

[0:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theatre history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, we are discussing the musical HERE LIES LOVE, a musical that's been on our listener request for, uh, some time. Casey wrote in and said, quote, I saw this show when Seattle Repertory Theatre put it on a few years ago, and it blew me away. The way the show happens around and through the audience had me swept away in the story, and it wasn't until midway through that I realized I was so taken with Imelda that I forgot I was dancing with a dictator and his wife, which immediately sent me into an emotional crisis.

Needless to say, I saw the show more than once, and the music, ah, it's a shame the show is so hard to put on because it deserves to be known, unquote. What a great request, Casey. Thank you for writing in, because it led us to welcoming an incredible guest for this episode. Maria Christina Olivares is a Drama Desk-nominated actress, not to mention a proud Filipino and Puerto Rican. She made her Broadway debut in Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson and has been seen in Hadestown and, of course, the original production of HERE LIES LOVE, where you can hear her fiery vocals on the OG Cast album. Some of the best tracks on that album, by the way. She's currently on Broadway in the new play THE BALLISTERS. Tickets are on sale through May 24th. Everyone, please welcome Maria Christina Olivares!

[2:21] Maria Christina Olivares: Yes! Hello, Jeffrey, thank you! So happy you're here. I'm dancing in my seat. How are you feeling?

[2:30] Maria Christina Olivares: Good, you know, just on the, you know, tail end of our opening week. Previews are done. We've opened. No big deal. Yeah, five-show weekend, though, two and two on Saturday, Sunday, so the doubleheaders back-to-back were a little gruesome, but so delicious. The audiences have been so wonderful, and last night was a great way to close out this opening week.

[2:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's amazing. Can you tell me a little bit about the show? I don't know much.

[2:54] Maria Christina Olivares: Yes, so it is set in a neighborhood association, an HOA board. Hilarious. Yes. Nine very beautiful, well-intentioned humans who are all fighting for their point of view. I get to actually play the observer. I'm a part of the community, but I'm the housekeeper to this very wealthy community who's observed them for 30 years. And the play, it's a microcosm of America in this moment. It's how divisive we are. How can we move through with empathy and our own deep, passionate points of views? Can we? What is the way to do that? How can we hold each other with grace? How can we actually listen? Is it possible? I don't know. The play offers no answers to all that. It just offers the questions of how can we engage and move forward in a really hilarious, I mean, what we found with these audiences are them taking sides in real time, shifting perspectives, laughing at something, and then realizing, oh, should I have laughed at that?

Yes, exactly. And in the ways that we do, it's also a microcosm of all of our unintentional microaggressions that we all messed up. We're all messy. David Lindsay-Aber is a brilliant playwright, one of my favorite living American playwrights. So, it's been a thrilling, thrilling ride to share this particular piece in this moment.

[4:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How cool. Okay. I really wish I could see it.

[4:31] Maria Christina Olivares: Fly on out.

[4:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I need to fly on out. I need to book my ticket. No, that's so cool because I just got done doing a production of Cabaret, and I'm connecting with a couple things that you're saying, which is that night by night, you'd hear different people connecting with different stories and different points of view. And like you said, sometimes even their laughter would reveal their own nervous energy, insecurities, or biases.

[5:01] Maria Christina Olivares: Or biases even, yeah.

[5:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And not in a judgmental way, but just creating space for it. And I'm here for it. That's why I love theater, is that real-time sort of processing as a community, you know what I mean? And exchange of energy. I mean, the audiences have also been really intergenerational, interracial, across socioeconomics. I mean, where else can you sit in the dark next to somebody who might be completely different than you and engage with the same content through your own filters? I mean, it's such a beautiful interchange.

[5:32] Maria Christina Olivares: How cool. How cool. Well, I didn't even mention in your bio that you have so much TV film experience on top of your theater experience, but it does feel like theater is a little bit of your origin story and love.

[5:47] Maria Christina Olivares: Yeah, it's really been my lifeblood. I do love film TV, particularly because I have a wanderlust, right? I'm always curious just how can truth manifest in all these different mediums?

[5:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[5:58] Maria Christina Olivares: But ultimately, in my core, and I think the basis of everything has been theater for me, and what that is to engage live in the moment present, because that translates across. Truth is truth across all mediums. But there is something so beautiful that I love and that always keeps me back and a little tied up sometimes from any film TV, right? Because you're doing eight shows a week and dedicating your kind of lifeblood to it, but it's addictive, that energy exchange, that live just moment to moment. It's different every night. Every performance is different. Every audience is different, and discovering what is that dance going to be tonight is always so delightful.

[6:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. Well, speaking of dance, that's a great segue into HERE LIES LOVE. What was going on in your life at that point? Were you living in New York? I know that you had or have a relationship with Alex Timbers.

[6:50] Maria Christina Olivares: Yeah. So, we actually went to undergrad together.

[6:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, wow. How cool.

[6:54] Maria Christina Olivares: And it's funny. Yeah. When I first graduated—

[6:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Director, by the way, everyone.

[6:59] Maria Christina Olivares: Yes, director of HERE LIES LOVE, but also all full circle. So, when I first graduated, I moved to New York and was auditioning for plays, musicals, some film TV stuff. But the musicals that I was going in for were West Side Story, Flower Drum Song, kind of the big, massive, commercial, singer-dancer, dancer-heavy. It wasn't calling to me the way plays were and roles were, and I hadn't had enough experience with new musicals to understand that you could create roles in something new in the musical world. So, I was auditioning for both, as I said, plays and musicals. Within the plays, sometimes I'd knock it out of the park. Sometimes I felt so awkward, and I was like, okay, I need a technique.

I need more of a craft. I want to go back to grad school. So, I went back to grad school, got my MFA in acting, thinking that when I graduated, I would really be leaning more toward plays and film TV. And I was doing a show downtown, and Alex Timbers, who is a colleague of mine from college and friend, was doing Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson at the time. And he had reached out and said, hey, MC, my show with the public is extending. We need coverage. Are you available? And it just so happened, this is the universe, my run was exactly in alignment with literally the block, I don't know, it was like two weeks or four weeks that they needed me. So, I ended up accepting that contract, and then it transferred. So, that was my Broadway debut in the fall of that year. Yeah.

[8:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. After thinking it's only plays and TV.

[8:32] Maria Christina Olivares: Right. Correct. But Alex knew, I mean, I'm a singer, and Alex knew that from my undergraduate days. And he had actually produced one of the first musicals I did at Yale, Two Gentlemen of Verona, the John Guare, Galt McDermott musical version. He was the producer on that. Yeah, yeah. So, it's just wild how the universe is complicit with, you know, whatever they feel your journey should be as well. And then HERE LIES LOVE. This was like 2011, April. I'm looking, I actually got to pull up the breakdown. At the time, I think I was doing a show at the Yale Rep. I can't remember, like another new play. But this came through, and y'all, the listeners, I think will appreciate this, because it really speaks on like the evolution of the show. When I first went in for this, this was for a musical development agreement, which now the contracts are so different. This was 2011.

[9:25] Maria Christina Olivares: HERE LIES LOVE, the breakdown for the role I went in for was Remedios, 30s to 40s, Filipina, Imelda's mother, a beacon of strength and practicality. Now, those of you who have tracked the musical will know that Remedios is not in the musical as a name.

[9:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm like, she ain't in there.

[9:41] Maria Christina Olivares: Well, it's interesting you say that, because the initial breakdown, too, said, HERE LIES LOVE follows the lives of Imelda Ramualdez Marcos and the woman who raised her, Estrella Kumpas, and their intertwining lives against the political backdrop of the Marcos' rise to power and fortune in the Philippines. I can go on if you want. Sent to the clubs. Yeah. Initially, I think when we first started, that was a central point. The women were a central point, which is why the mother was pivotal. It's interesting that you say die, because there was a song called You'll Be Taken Care Of, originally done by Tori Amos on the concept album, which Remedios, I sang. It was wonderful. It was one of the most beautiful numbers.

Annie B. Parson, our choreographer, designed this beautiful dance with buckets. I was on my deathbed. I'm singing like, Precious little children, like all these beautiful, like rain and thunder. That is what our initial concept was in opening the show. I've been with it through literally the basement of NYU. That's where we started. This was a two week workshop. I'm seeing the dates they gave us were June 12th, 2011 to June 23rd, 2011. The original, it was me, Ruthie Ann, Jose Lana, and Janelle Velazquez. We were the first within that, that then sought through to the public, the reiterations thereafter. By the way, I just have to say that one of the things that I'm obsessed about with this show is just like the legacy of Filipino talent that has been in and out of it throughout. I mean, truly, just like cream of the crop, incredible artists.

[11:24] Maria Christina Olivares: Yeah, I think Conrad Ricamora has something. If he keeps at it, he'll—

[11:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're right. He's almost there.

[11:32] Maria Christina Olivares: Yeah, he's almost there. No, I mean, it was such a beautiful creation process to be a part of because so many people left their DNA in it at various permutations. That's the beautiful thing about any new work, that whoever's embodying it literally leaves their DNA. You've got this beautiful compilation of all this beautiful energy and everybody's so many different efforts.

[11:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, you're in the basement doing this reading for a couple weeks.

[12:02] Maria Christina Olivares: Correct. Literally, two weeks.

[12:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I've listened to a couple of interviews with David Byrne, which we'll talk about. So much of this show feels like it's built around this concept of the disco, of the innovation of the art form in a way. So, was that felt right then from the get go?

[12:23] Maria Christina Olivares: Honestly, I mean, that's why I love having this conversation with you because it's like revisiting my childhood on so many levels. What was so beautiful about that whole process was we had no idea what we had. At the time, this notion of immersive, moving around, it was all experimental. It felt so authentically, I hate to say that, but authentically downtown, right? Because we genuinely, all of us, we had no idea. Alex, it was this sense of, oh, great. David Byrne wants to do a musical. All right, this is the music. He's inspired by discos. He's inspired by that Imelda loved going out to the clubs. What is that? How can we simulate that experience in an interesting way? At NYU, we didn't have any of the video projections or platforms. It was literally just us in a room, and I think I had my deathbed. There are some funny stories. Let's be clear.

[13:14] Maria Christina Olivares: Yeah, let's be clear. The deathbed was there. Because it was a new work and we had no idea what we had, Alex and David, it was a team that thrived on, let's try this. Okay, let's try throwing rice into it. Okay, you can't when you got 12 sweaty actors, like that rice sticks. Okay, so we're not going to do that. Okay, how about, how are you going to die, Maria? So sometimes I was like, oh, it's like, okay, maybe not that. Okay, maybe let's just silently go back, things like that. Because we were so young and as I've gotten on my career, you see, there are some works where you don't feel the freedom to kind of experiment and explore, right? Just because of eyes are looking or their expectations.

There were no expectations. We had no idea. Just this really beautiful sense of, we want to create something that is vibrant and parallels this disco energy, and also subversively gets the audience engaged and seduced by the glamour, the glitz, Studio 54 opening, all of the things where then maybe by the

[14:27] Maria-Christina Oliveras: They're like, oh, huh, wait, I had a good, wait, who is this human? What are their politics? Like what happened? Right. But ultimately, we were really exploring this new form. And, you know, there's been a lot, theatre has come out of that. But at the time, there wasn't a lot, there wasn't a model. So, it was beautiful experimentation and freedom.

[14:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really great point, because I think of like the Rachel Chavkin of it all. And you know, how immersive Great Comet and even Hadestown, you have things that you have relationships with. And yet, HERE LIES LOVE seems to be kind of a trailblazer for even those things, those projects.

[15:06] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Yeah. So, the NYU workshop in 2011, and God bless the public for being so supportive, honestly, because then we did another workshop of it at PS122, which I think still exists. I'm not sure. It was a very downtown venue. Yeah, yep. That's where we first incorporated some of the screen projections. So, to walk in on David Byrne, like singing a song, fabulous one for the first time of just like him composing was just also such a gift of just like, oh my gosh, observing this, this genius just coming up with this. And at PS122, then we layered some other things like, oh, what if the platform moved? We experimented with, because we wanted to immerse the audience and get them complicit in voting, right?

We handed out ballots and pencils, which I'm pretty sure we subsequently cut at the public, but we definitely did at PS122. And at another workshop at Mass MoCA, which we can talk about too, we handed out cupcakes at one point, which I remember, I didn't get to see it, but that beautiful production of Oklahoma where they were like, had stews and stuff. I was like, all right, this is the thing. So, you know, you ask as far as what was that like? It was just so truly, and again, maybe it was because it was toward the beginning of my career, but one of the just most free playgrounds where I felt like, let's just try everything, which was so integral to the experience of it.

[16:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. Well, there's a lot to talk about with the show, and a lot of people that, like actual real life humans to talk about with the show. The one I want to begin with, even before Imelda Marcos, funny enough, is David Byrne, because he is such an unusual artist and one that honestly has become part of musical theater later in his career. But he was born in 1952, born in Scotland, but then moved to the US as a child, and is maybe most well known for co-founding Talking Heads in the 70s in New York City. But when you're thinking artist with a capital A, David Byrne's right up there. I remember watching the SNL 50th special last year, where he's got caution tape all over him, I think, and then rips it apart.

And then in the next segment of singing Dancing on My Own with Robin, you never can guess what this guy's going to do, right? Which then makes perfect sense that when he dives into the world of musical theater, he's like, what if there's a disco, and it tells the story of the First Lady of the Philippines, Imelda Marcos? I can imagine everyone's being like, excuse me, but why not? It's David Byrne, for crying out loud. Let's see where it goes. Since he was in New York City in the 1970s, he very much understands disco. He knows and remembers what discos were like. And I listened to a conversation with Conan O'Brien on his podcast, where he was saying that at discos, they would have these little mini stages, and people would come up and do a performance.

And everybody's dancing and everything, but for just a moment, everybody would stop and give their focus to the stage for this specialty performance. And so he remembered that being part of disco culture. And then on top of that, he would remember DJs at discos, saying that there was an arc to the evening, that as the DJ is crafting what you're going to experience at the club, that there is an arc. And so he's putting all of these things together. Okay, there are these little specialty moments happening on stages. There's a DJ who's crafting an arc for the whole thing. Maybe there is some hand-holding here between the disco experience and what we traditionally think of as a musical theater story moment in the theater.

And then, like you mentioned, what's the story we're going to tell? Well, there's this infamous woman who, in her excess, was obsessed with going to clubs and going to Studio 54, even while her people in her nation were struggling. So look, I don't know if it's the quote-unquote right way to tell the story of Imelda Marcos, but man, it's compelling. You know what I mean?

[19:51] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Yeah, absolutely. And as an actor, no heroes, no villains, right? And to see what Ruthie Anne did with Imelda and the humanity and the depth and the complexity, it is so complicated, and then not, right? It's like, well, some leaders just shouldn't be. But in honoring, just as artists, right, we step in and we embody all facts as correct, you know, and every human is just doing their best, fighting for what they feel is right to move and trying to move their lives forward in the ways that they know how, you know? And I say all that to say, because Remedios, the mother, you'll see that I'm actually featured quite prominently vocally throughout, but again, the name was quote-unquote taken away as we evolved, as the show really kind of refocused to the triangle of the two men and Imelda, Nino and Ferdinand, right? I'm not going to lie. I kind of dig the idea of the triangle being the three women instead of the two men and her.

[21:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, it's such a deep, like Ferdinand, there's one moment in the show where Ferdinand had an affair with Dovie Beams and the storytelling of it, Imelda witnesses this. And for me, just as the actor embodying that particular number, and it can be interpreted so many different ways, but that number, maybe because I was originally cast as her mother, you know, was very much a call to arms, like, wake up, don't do this, girl, do you, this man is screwing you over, look at this, right? Like, let's claim this, let's, so whether I was her voice of reason, her conscience, her mother, her ancestors, her fire, whatever it was, you know, that to me, just in the embodying, again, as an artist within the story, letting go of, you know, what the optics are, like people's perception of who these humans are, right?

Just, that's a turning point, I think, for Imelda, because then you have her beautiful Star and Slave, which we discovered and was written in PS 122. That affair is what compels her to step into this world of excess and to grab it and to step into her power. You know, she says, if you look at the lyrics of that song, I'll be your star and slave, I'm here to serve my country. And so, the function of the women and how she still functioned, even though Domitius was taken away as a, like, name, right? Subsequently, when they did it on Broadway, they actually gave her that My Track and Name, Maria Luisa, I understand, you know, who was one of the real life Imeldas, ladies in blues. She had this whole retinue of women who were called her ladies in blue. She was the steel butterfly, yeah, which is why when we did it to the public, we were all in, like, these blue butterfly dresses, you know, as her ladies in blue, Rene Albalari and I, yeah.

[22:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, there's so much nuance to, you know, and care to it. And so, when the name Remedios, just to finish out her trajectory, so we did experiment with, you'll be taken care of, the chorus is Precious Little Children, as the opening with this, but the whole team felt like it just opened the show on a darker level than we wanted. Whereas, like, Here Lies Love, the optimism of this young girl just from Tacloban, like this, you know, for lack of a better word, like a country girl, like, not innocent, right? But, like, Maria, in Sound of Music, like, I have confidence, like, oh, my gosh, can I do all the things, you know, opening with that sense of light, you know, versus a deathbed number, which, again, was stunning, just didn't have ultimately a place, you know, within the story as it developed, as we discovered it.

[23:47] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Okay, I think before we go into, like, the Imelda of it all, which is, we've covered quite a few shows on the podcast that are biographical in nature. And it's always fun, because when it comes time to talk about the people that it's based on, you just need to go through the show, because the show tells the story, right? But before we get into her, I do want to just say a couple of things that she and her husband did that were terrible. Because I will say that my first opinion of the show was that it was too easy on the Marcoses, and too hard on America. That was just my initial reaction. Now, prepping for this episode, I feel like I've had a change of heart with that. Because I, as always, when you go into the work, and really look at the intention behind it, I think I get and see what's going on here.

And like you said, an artist's job is not to condemn the people that they're representing, but to represent them as humans, right? So, all that being said, Imelda Marcos was, and is still alive, crazy enough. She's still kicking, right? Good for her.

[25:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But she and her husband were president and first lady of the Philippines for quite some time. During their time, they were estimated to have stolen between $5 billion and $10 billion. This is billions in American dollars, by the way. $5 billion and $10 billion from the Filipino people, which is insane. We like to kid about authoritarianism in this country, and warn of our current political climate. But they were unapologetically dictators of the Philippines, and put the country under martial law for something like 17 years. There was no press that they didn't approve of. During that time, there were a lot of executions, a lot of people went missing. I mean, just really, really bad stuff. It is interesting that if you know that about this regime, when the show begins, we meet Imelda as, like you said, this Rose of Tacloban.

She was from a wealthy family, but she was like the poor side of the wealthy family, something like that is what I read. And so, there's this idea that she was always kind of wishing to be a little bit more like her rich relatives, right, as opposed to the ones who had to serve them tea. And right here at the beginning, when we meet here, there's this song called American, oh my gosh, I always forget this word. Chocolate. Chocolate. Yeah, exactly. That was the opener. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[26:43] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Yeah. And it's this really interesting introduction to the world. We always think of the 80s as the time of excess, late 70s, early 80s, right? And so, this song is talking about essentially American excess, American consumerism. And this word, troglodyte, I had to look it up because I didn't know what it meant. But it basically means cave dweller, that we in America were living this crazy culture of excess, but we were doing so in this bubble thinking that it wouldn't affect anybody else in the world. And then we meet this girl, Imelda, in the Philippines, and we begin to see how that just can't be true, that she is someone who's dreaming of riches and eventually will put any excess that maybe we had done to shame, right?

She'll take it to a whole other level. But there's this feeling of responsibility, of accountability, that what we do has echoes and reverberations throughout the world and throughout other cultures. Is that a fair kind of representation of the beginning of the show from your-?

[28:01] Maria-Christina Oliveras: I really think it depends on everybody's filter coming in, depending on your relationship. Even Filipinos within America, Filipino Americans, everybody has such a different filter and perspective. So, truly, when it comes to that sort of thing, whatever filter you come in with-

[28:56] Maria-Christina Oliveras: In your view, and when we're talking about like what people are bringing to this show, are there people in the Philippines who think that she's incredible? Like at the end of the day, she got re-elected to Congress after all of this. Yeah. Well, I think therein lies your answer, right? Yeah, if that happened, then clearly there are. Me personally, I'm not, but you know, you know, also look at our country, right? I mean, that's what's so interesting about this show. That question lies across decades, across leaders, you know, and yeah, I think that's the answer you're quite—if you're saying, you know, I mean, clearly there are. You know, it feels like with this particular regime, history is very clear about kind of the atrocities that came out of the regime, and yet maybe culturally it's not quite so black and white.

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I'm curious what textbooks now, 20 years from now, are gonna say about our current moment, our current leader, right? You know what I mean? You know, it's just—because it's—I’m confused about this moment.

[30:09] Maria-Christina Oliveras: No, when we're talking about it, it took quite a bit of time to figure out exactly how much money they had stolen from the Filipino people. I'm really curious about how much money we'll find out has been stolen by this current administration. By the way, I should have begun this entire episode with like a political asterisk, like there is no way to not talk about politics with this. I mean, and we shouldn't shy away from it. It asks the questions. I don't, again, I'm not one, even as a theater maker and as a human, to offer any answers, and I'm more interested in the question. I mean, we're interested in us exploring together what might the answer be and to explore the potential answer because if we had the answers, we wouldn't be repeating the same stuff we've been doing for decades, for centuries—not even decades.

I mean, I was just in Rome looking at, you know, all of the beautiful excess of our previous emperors there. I'm like, oh, and at the time when I was there, all the plans for this ballroom were going on, you know? So it was just—I was like, oh, we're reliving this right now. Oh, and this was centuries ago. Okay, Rome. Okay, America, you know? So I think if the intentions are there with the right offering up that the complicated questions within our art, then that will help us to move forward and in some small way, potentially even just having a conversation like this of saying like, oh, was that wrong? Or how did these people feel? How—nothing's binary. It's not black and white, and that's for better or worse. That's why we continue to live in them and the mess in the gunk, but hopefully move forward and try to, you know, engage better and be better.

[32:02] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Because look, and you look at the things that Imelda Marcos did, I guess you could applaud, right? Sure. Sure. No, no, no, but most of them were based in film. Like she really elevated the Filipino film industry, built these huge cultural centers to promote the arts, and yet it all still feels very Western. You know what I mean? At the end of the day, film is also a Western art form. So once again, kind of the idea that of the American troglodyte, these reverberations that are maybe encouraging this woman to ignore the poverty and actual needs of the people and instead elevate herself as a beacon of culture and art in a way that is then accepted by the most important and wealthy people in the world. It's very, very interesting.

[33:01] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Yeah, it's very messy. And I mean, it also explores, you know, assimilation, what it is to be an immigrant and perception of us in this country, you know, how we choose to integrate or assimilate, how not to, how to, you know, which is again why I love doing the play that I'm doing right now too. It really explores that—like what are we assimilating into? Who has the power to say what the system in place should be, right? And then subsequently, do we buy into that? You know, again, just all messy, messy, messy questions, but that's why the form I think is really interesting of being seduced, being like the—just I remember when we go into—I say Studio 54 because our choreographer, the amazing Annie B, said she was at the opening of Studio 54, and that inspired this moment into dancing together, which was this drop like Imelda.

She's in this gold sequin. I was wearing these like ram horns that could—Ramos put on my head, and in its earlier versions, she was happy. But it was one of the most thrilling, just intoxicating moments where no matter what, you're on board. It's like those live moments in sports or something where something so epic happens, it doesn't matter what your POV is. You're just like, I'm on board. That was great, you know? And I think those really interesting subversive seduction moments, right, that straddle those lines are like, who is this person? Or what are the ideals? Or what am I—what kind of Kool-Aid am I taking? Is it the good Kool-Aid or the bad Kool-Aid, quote-unquote, right? And music, live music, and Dave, it's—you know, it's just—it was intoxicating in that form.

[34:48] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Can you kind of describe, so you have all of your workshops? Of course, your throne spaghetti or rice for that matter. Yeah, right? Confetti—confetti was there at one point too. I don't think that confetti was done. I can't—maybe we kept the confetti at the public. I forgive me, it was 15 years ago. No, of course, and you had so many versions of it, versions of it, correct? But once you open at the public, which is kind of a—we're not kind of—which is a celebrated showing for sure, can you describe a little bit about the setup of the theater? Like, oh.

[35:21] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Yeah, yeah, because that is—that's truly where the—I think the real innovation of this show. Yes. Yes. So, gosh, I can't remember what the name of it is because it's been renovated, and it's one of the spaces in the public that's very multi-versatile, but you took an elevator up, which was cool in and of itself. Like, it's like, oh, we go to this exclusive little club, but you took the elevator up, and then when you walk in, there are—gosh, I wish I could offer you a picture, but like you walk in, platforms all around. It's like Lego blocks, let's say. You know, you walk into the space. There was a nipa hut that we call, you know, that little bar area. So it was very much a club, you know, where you know how they have, um, you know, go-go dancers and stuff on like, you know, different platforms and whatnot.

So it was just—you walk in, it's a party. There's loud music, the DJ ultimately, which you spoke about, was the framework of welcoming, you know, and actually beautifully closing the show as well. The outsider coming in with that beautiful song, "God Draw Straight but Crooked Lines," which to me is exactly what we're talking about—the complicated nature of, oh, it's a straight line and it's crooked, right? Oh, ain't nothing black and white. There's so much mess, right?

[36:46] Maria-Christina Oliveras: And please, I don't want you to lose your thought. You're trying to—that. But the hope that we're always headed up and towards the right, yes, you know, and there may be debt, there may be hills and valleys, but at the end of the day, hopefully, it's still going in the direction we wanted to. Amen. And that's why—I mean, I'll go back to that, but you know, history constantly repeats itself, but I'd like to think that like we're taking steps forward. Like as much as we're repeating itself, there's also that moment—hey, it's the same thing. So I love the end of "Hadestown." We're gonna sing it again and again. You know, it's like we know the story. We know it ends in tragedy. I mean, but that's why—and all of—I feel like I've been very blessed to be a part of work that explores and celebrates the messiness of humanity, but also acknowledges we got to move forward with hope.

Otherwise, what the hell are we doing? You know, that we will, you know, rise, rise to the top. Power to the people, right? But so the setup, though, was those platforms. We had wranglers who became a part of the "Here Lies Love" family who literally moved around. I mean, there was like extensive training, moved to the platforms around the audience throughout the show, and then—and I'm just standing and watching. Yes, yes.

[38:02] Maria-Christina Oliveras: So there were seats. We had like the balconies, quote-unquote, balcony seats in little kind of like boxes. Like it was like if you were in a theater, they would be look at the boxes. But ultimately, at least at the public, the experience really was about being immersed, being pushed around, you know, energetically. Yeah, yeah. And then what that does to you mentally, like, oh, and you're up and you're engaged, dancing. We did engage with an audience dance along later in the show to kind of really get them into the party, but it really—in that space, it was like you were walking into a club, you know? And that was what was cultivated in the vibe. As I said, we had the nipa hut drinks, and the wranglers really were a part of the family. I mean, they were vital to the production itself.

[39:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Do you know what's popping out to me right now as I'm picturing all this? Because you're doing such a great job. I know that the podcast is—you know, I—yeah, thank you for describing it really well, but as I'm picturing it, is greed is not a good thing, but it wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't fun. You know what I mean, right?

[39:19] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Well, I mean, that's what this excess is about, like you're talking about with the seduction and everything. Like at the end of the day, unfortunately, people do it because it feels good. Yes, human beings. I mean, you know, the seven deadly sins, they're there for you. They tempt. We're all human. They're—yeah, and we agreed, lost all the things, and it's about acknowledging that that's a part of our humanity. But like, how do we keep those in check? You know, and how do we maintain our humanity while being a part of a community and not making it about some narcissistic power, you know, dictatorial struggle, you know? Amen. All right, you go, maniacal. Yeah, yes, all the things.

[40:06] Maria-Christina Oliveras: So you guys have a very celebrated run at the public, and it takes a long time for the show to eventually transfer to Broadway. I mean, well, you know, it's funny. At the public, it was originally—we were supposed to do it only from like April to May in 2013, and we ended up extending through the end of July. And then we brought it back again at the public for a commercial run. So I just—I know there's so many permutations of it. So yeah, then we brought it back. Oh gosh, what year was that? Probably 2014. I'm like, we're like the next year. Yeah, yes, April 2014. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[41:47] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Then it was at Seattle. I got to see it in London, and I flew over to see their version of it, which was beautiful—very different. Again, it just depends on the space, right? But to see the DNA embodied in those ways, it was just so, so stunning and beautiful. And it continues. There's a production of it in LA. I don't know if it's still running. I think it just closed, but they just closed. They've done some really interesting things with the DJ now, a drag queen called Imelda Fic, which is of course the adjective that was given to her to describe like her fabulous excess. And so in many ways, like the DJ is now this alter-ego sort of—yeah, really interesting stuff. But all of those hours that you spend in basements figuring out stuff really has given people permission to try things themselves, right?

[42:46] Maria-Christina Oliveras: I think—I think, I mean, the beautiful—the DNA is there, and that's, you know, most of my career has been in creation and world premieres and just creating, like being in an inception point and seeing things throughout. And one of the most delicious things is to see it in its form thereafter and what are people doing with the container, with the DNA, and how are they shifting the DNA of the show itself? And it's been really, really beautiful.

[43:11] Maria-Christina Oliveras: It feels to me like we begin the show with Imelda, you know, she meets a kind of her two guys, one of which represents power, right, and one who represents intention and certain like public service, and she ultimately chooses power. She and President Marcos are together. He cheats on her. That kind of unlocks a need for control. He also gets, at least in our version, I don't know what the actuality of it, but yes, in the storytelling, as I said, that seems to be the turning point. And I mean, the need for good journalism—like when a country is under martial law, who has the correct story? Nobody can publish it, right? Because it's all so secret. So you're truly just kind of representing what could be. But in the musical, it kind of unlocks this need for control and power, and then of course with his illness, that just leads her to make even more decisions, which...

[43:23] Maria-Christina Oliveras: He ends up becoming very critical of the Marcos regime in the musical. Imelda visits him in the jail cell and basically says like, "Go and never come back because if you come back, you'll probably be assassinated." He goes, but he does come back to fight for his people and is literally killed on the tarmac when he lands. It is hinted at that Imelda had to give the go-ahead, had to give the thumbs up to that, and she was complicit in that killing. So you're right in that the DJ comes in pretty late, at the very end, because good suitor is really the representation of that resistance until, of course, he's eliminated. Then the beautiful off there was this all-immersive club experience after that death.

There's this beautiful number that Natalie Cortez did when we did it at the Public, "Drummer, I want to be a drummer, Mom," an homage to her son. And this is the mom of the resistance guy. Yeah, yep, yep. Because it's all of us singing that song with her and supporting her. And so the play progressively shifts tonally, you know, away from this kind of like a good time, wait, what, you know, to darker tones? We also had a moment where there are riots and very loud just sounds of violence and guns and warfare and what that is.

[44:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah, and that's which is when martial law happens.

[44:54] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Correct. And I distinctly remember when we were in tech doing that and just hearing the sound bombs and like the transitions and the energy of the show. It really does traverse the ups and downs of complicity and resistance at the same time. As an actor, could you kind of clock when an audience would turn on themselves, if you will, where, you know, like they're dancing and everything and then they go, "Oh boy," you know? It's different for every audience, of course, and continues to be, you know, in live performance. But because people had such specific filters and relationships, whether it was an American coming in and being like, "Oh, I knew Imelda from her shoes," or someone who migrated or someone who lived in the Philippines, or even someone who lived in the Philippines like my mom did not actually have a very deep relationship because she left so early and she quite honestly, as an immigrant, wanted to leave it all.

Right? So like in my conversations with her, they were actually very minimal, you know? Whereas another human might have such deeply passionate responses in whatever ways, you know, to it. So the audience, I mean, it was so well received but of course divisive opinions. But, you know, what's your reason? It's our congratulations. You did your job. You know, it's a complicated thing.

[46:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What is the, you guys had the curtain call "Here Lies Love" reprise, and I think productions since then have something different, but did it feel like a party and celebratory at the end?

[46:11] Maria-Christina Oliveras: I'm just gonna tell you from my perspective, it feels like it was because at the end of the day, at the end of the show, the people won, the people rose up and their voices were heard, right? The regime came to an end. Yeah, it definitely felt celebratory in at least in the experience of it because we go back to music and dance and joy and love, you know, we're saying "Here Lies Love," you know? And also, you know, just on kind of more meta, just to be on stage with other Asian American actors, like there's that celebration too of just joy and generosity of just like, "Here we are," you know, as complicated as this story is. And again, people had, you know, different reactions to it, but it did feel celebratory.

Also, the form of music and dance in a club is just, you know, it does go in that it is infectious, right? And I always want to feel like, like you said, like that we can move forward with a little bit of light despite all the dark, you know? So how can we kind of leave that despite it all? It's such an interesting piece. Sometimes when I'm looking at it, I'm like, "Oh, this is a musical about a dictator." Sometimes when I'm looking at it, I'm thinking, "Oh, this is a musical about democracy and how ultimately people can have the power to overthrow that sort of thing." And then other times I'm like, "Is this just a musical that wants to be like another 'Evita'?" Like, I like truly, truly it can, my own perspective on it can shift. But what a fascinating, fascinating piece of theater that ultimately came to Broadway much after your production.

[48:42] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Yeah, I think for no other reason than 10 years then. Yeah, I mean a full day, no, 15 years. Oh my God. I started in 2011 was the first workshop. 2011, we were 2026 and it was the last year. That's crazy. That's so 14, 14 years. I think I have to think that a number of things happened. Number one, the need for different kinds of stories and different kinds of talents to be showcased on stage. And number two, how do you change a Broadway theater into this immersive space? And I think that that was, I think, one of the truly lauded things about the Broadway production, which unfortunately didn't run too long, but like they had to change a Broadway theater into this kind of thing that you created up in the balcony of the Public, you know what I mean? Like what a feat. Were you able to see the Broadway?

[49:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I did. I wasn't around for opening. I was in Toronto during "Hadestown" at the time, but I got to come back. It was glorious, such a beautiful rendering. And again, so gratifying to see how it was embodied, you know, in all the new DNA, especially in this Broadway space. Yeah, they revamped that.

[49:56] Maria-Christina Oliveras: At the Broadway theater. I think it was a Broadway.

[49:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Yeah. I guess where I want to end the conversation is kind of the relevance of what is currently going on, which is Imelda Marcos's son is the new president of the Philippines, which seems crazy, right? But here we are. And who am I to speak because I am a citizen of a country who has gone back to a president that I wasn't a big fan of to begin with? How do we remember our histories so that we can learn from them?

[50:26] Maria-Christina Oliveras: I mean, I'm gonna say from my perspective, I think it's creating art. I think it's telling stories and specifically when we tell them in these theatrical settings, it becomes a communal experience. That's hard to forget.

[50:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I agree. It's, and I think it's offering up our art with the spirit of questioning and not judgment and not holding any one side with judgment because ultimately that's going to alienate someone. And ultimately, I think our goal is to actually engage in community, right? And how do we do that? I think it's by honoring the complexity of it all, acknowledging the mess of it all and saying, "Well, how can we do better for each other and listen to each other and deeply move forward with deep empathy yet deep conviction?" Is it possible? I hope so.

[51:27] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Deep empathy, but deep conviction. I love that. That's simultaneous. I don't know. Yeah.

[51:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It takes practice. It takes practice, you know? I've been thinking lately about like how incredible rehearsal is, like the opportunity that as theater artists we have a chance to try it again and again and again. Yeah, and what a beautiful practice for our real lives.

[51:52] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Yes, and discover and learn something new every time by going. But again, it's only if we want to go deeper. I mean, that's the thing. The death of us all is apathy, right? It's not caring. It's not, you know, that's what scares me most if people are just like, "Oh, huh? Yeah." And I'm like, "Oh wow." You know, I have a conviction. I might not agree with it, but at least I know you stand for something.

[52:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's a great point, you know?

[52:19] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Wow. And I wonder, and now you've got, you keep saying these things, but like how the seduction of excess can actually fuel apathy because you don't need to pay attention.

[52:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, right, right, right, or you think you have it all or you know, correct? Yeah, distract.

[52:36] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Yeah, completely distracted or lulled into thinking, "I don't need anything else. I don't want anything else. I'm complacent. I'm not gonna think about lower-class." I mean, I think about it all the time, you know, especially the play that I'm doing now, you know, hopefully some of your others won't get to see it. I'm sorry you can't, but no, I'm, you know, it's all about gatekeeping. It's all about access and it breaks my heart that systems in place keep people out even when we have attained power and a degree of wealth. And again, I don't want to give away too much about it, but it breaks my heart that everybody's welcome, but to a point, you know, there's a certain class where the dynamic is like, "Oh God, I love you, you know, woke.

I'm woke. I'm liberal. I want you in my community." Oh, but until, let's just correct, but let's just remember I'm the king. I get to say what, and we all do it. I am not not complicit. No, of course. I'm like microaggressions and the biases, you know? And that's why I love doing this play too. I'm like, "Oh, what are my own biases within this world and how can I be better about it?" And I'm learning every day from audiences and the engagement because, as I said, it's such so divisive. But do you know I'm so glad that we were able to talk about "Here Lies Love" because I do feel like there's quite a few crossovers between that and your current show, you know? I read the current administration, I mean all the things, you know, all the art and the political.

And I do think it'll be around because of that if it's, if you all created it back, you know, starting in 2011 and it still feels somehow this fresh in 2026. Oh my gosh. I think it'll be around for quite some time. You're all are tapping into some very real truths.

[54:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Maria-Christina, thank you. MC, is that what people see? MC, Maria-Christina, MC? Oh, yes, yes, yes. I was more Christmas Eve, so Merry Christmas. And I was named after Jesus Christ and Mary, no pressure at all.

[54:37] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Sure, no pressure at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

[54:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on "A Musical Theatre Podcast," you can always email me at amusicalpodcast@gmail.com. Be sure you're following us on social media. We're on Instagram, we're on TikTok, and we make great content that we would love for you to share. If you haven't already joined Patreon, exclamation point, what are you waiting for? Go to patreon.com/a musical podcast where you'll receive bonus episodes including great polls, contests. Oh my gosh, we have so much fun over there. You get my little essay with each episode. More than anything though, I'm so grateful you're here and part of this great podcasting community. Oh, TeePublic store. Why do I keep forgetting about this? If you want to give back, we have great designs on our TeePublic store. You can find the link in our show notes. All of the profits we receive from those purchases go to Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS.

[56:33] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Before you go, can you please share with us how we follow you and you always have so many great projects?

[56:41] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Oh, yes. MC Oliveras, I'm on the IG. Those of you who still use Facebook, yeah, I'm on Facebook as well. But come see "The Balusters," truly one of my deepest, deepest joys in my career as far as new works and the questions and the relevance that it has to this moment. And I do a quick little cameo on Mindy Kaling's new show "Not Suitable for Work," and that's gonna drop in June. It's literally, it's such a fun cameo. I like playing NTA, playing named Janice and then Vivian and the florist. I shot right before "The Balusters," and it's a biopic ironically of Vivian Lee. Carla Gugino, who should be number one on everyone's call list, is playing Vivian, and Matthew Modine was my husband. And yeah, yeah, no, great. And David Hyde Pierce's search on Google. So they are, I don't know, film is always tricky. It's like I don't know when it's gonna be released and all that, but I'm thrilled. I can't wait to see how that story plays out as well.

[57:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Incredible projects. How cool. Well, we will link as many as we can in our show notes. Sure. And thank you again, everybody out there, thank you for listening and remember...

[57:55] Maria-Christina Oliveras: Here, the Florence Welch one, we didn't even talk about that. Oh my God, she's where I found Sharon who did my song originally "Men Will Do Anything." Yeah, pretty extraordinary that concept album. And you can hear the Tori Amos version of it, and the Tory, you'll be taken care of and just visualize it with this beautiful dance choreographed me on a death bed. I know you die. Correct, and know that I die. Remedios and for Remedios has dead is dead as well. That's the perfect way to end this.