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[0:00] Kevin Chamberlin: It was very eye-opening when I got into the limousine with the press rep to go from the opening night from the theater to the party. And he goes, Kevin, we're in trouble. Oh no. Yeah, all the critics are going to tear this apart. And so I had to walk into the party knowing this. And I didn't know. I was clueless.

[0:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast, where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, we are discussing Seussical the Musical, a show that many of you have often mentioned in your requests as one that, I don't know, like you've seen or been in. My niece literally last night just opened her production of Seussical Jr. at her middle school, so shout out, Paty Pie. Here to talk with me about this very popular musical is none other than a three-time Tony nominee. And by the way, what's so cool about all of your nominations, my friend, is that they're in different acting categories.

It's like you and Audra McDonald. So best featured actor in a musical, nominated. Best featured actor in a play, nominated. Best leading actor in a musical, nominated. And that last one was for originating the role of Horton the Elephant in the Broadway production of Seussical. He is currently prepping the premiere of a hilarious new play, When Playwrights Kill. Everyone, please welcome Kevin Chamberlin.

[1:50] Kevin Chamberlin: My gosh, I'm so grateful you're here. Can you first tell me about this new show? Because it has collected maybe the most hilarious people on earth. So what's the incredible cast? And strangely enough, it's a play, but it has the most musical theater cast. It's Marissa Janet Winokur, and Beth Leavel, and her husband Adam Heller, and Matt Doyle. So it's inspired by the playwright Matthew Lombardo wrote a one-person show about Katharine Hepburn for the actress Faye Dunaway.

[2:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh.

[2:31] Kevin Chamberlin: And it had a disastrous out-of-town Boston tryout. And she ended up having to wear an earpiece because she couldn't remember her lines. She ended up hitting a stagehand and ended up closing the show, and it never came into New York. And so the playwright decided to take it to a farcical.

[2:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, a less traumatic version.

[2:57] Kevin Chamberlin: Yes. And there's no slapping of stagehands. So it's a backstage comedy. And it's really in the vein of the old-fashioned Boulevard comedy as a Broadway, you know? And it's very fast. It's very funny. And it's a love letter to the theater.

[3:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so fun. That's so fun. And you're premiering in Boston, is that right?

[3:19] Kevin Chamberlin: Yes, ironically enough.

[3:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Go figure.

[3:22] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, in the same theater.

[3:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, you guys, stop.

[3:26] Kevin Chamberlin: I thought it was, yeah.

[3:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How fun.

[3:29] Kevin Chamberlin: I play the director of the play, and Matt Doyle is the playwright. Beth Leavel is the diva actress. And her husband, Adam Heller, plays the kind of sleazy producer of the show.

[3:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, fantastic. Oh, my gosh. I wish I could see it. That sounds like such fun. Congratulations.

[3:49] Kevin Chamberlin: Thank you.

[3:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, for a few moments, I'm going to force you to listen to me talk about you, if you don't mind. I want to tell you about how I got to know you, because you are in that Broadway generation of when I was discovering the Tony Awards. I was taking meticulous notes on who's in what show, and now they're going to this, and creating a whole map of what musical theater is. So the first time that I heard about you was Triumph of Love. I was obsessed with Triumph of Love. I still am. I think it's a beautiful little show.

[4:28] Kevin Chamberlin: Beautiful score. Great score.

[4:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It really is, and has so much variety to it. And it was like you, Nancy Opel, and Roger...

[4:35] Kevin Chamberlin: Roger Bart.

[4:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Roger Bart...

[4:37] Kevin Chamberlin: We've been friends since I was 17.

[4:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're kidding. Oh, my gosh. How crazy. So it was this little show that made a big impression with me, and so I recognized your name. And then I think just a few seasons later is when you did Dirty Blonde, which was technically a play. It has music in it, but a really well-regarded play, and that was a Tony nomination for you. And that was one of the first moments, like I said with Audra, where I was like, oh, musical theater actors are actors and should be respected as such. You know what I mean? And so I know that you were talking about how there are so many musical theater actors in this play, but you guys understand rhythm. You understand pace.

[5:24] Kevin Chamberlin: Pace, yeah. Comedy is rhythm and pitch and pace.

[5:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[5:30] Kevin Chamberlin: It's really... That's why it's called musical comedy.

[5:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. The tradition of it, right? It's just in the DNA of the people who do it well. So I love that you've been an example for that throughout your career. And then of course, Seussical comes along, and that I think has, to borrow a term from the description of my show, the cultural and emotional impact of this show is far bigger than I think maybe the writers knew, especially looking at what the process was like in creating it. So I definitely want to dive in here. Can we first begin with your relationship with Ahrens and Flaherty? Because I was blessed and so grateful that they were on my show. We did an episode on A Man of No Importance. And in that, yeah, it was so fun to hear their reflections on it.

And one of the things I asked them about was how they decide on almost the size of their different projects, because their first outing on Broadway was Once on this Island, a lovely little show. And then they followed that up with a big, splashy musical comedy, My Favorite Year.

[6:49] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah.

[6:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is that when you met them?

[6:51] Kevin Chamberlin: Yes. I started out in the chorus. My first job was in the chorus of My Favorite Year, and it was thrilling. I was making my Broadway debut at 29 years old.

[7:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow.

[7:04] Kevin Chamberlin: I'd been a big fan of theirs from Lucky Stiff.

[7:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, of course, Lucky Stiff.

[7:08] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. I used to sing the dog song from that, times like this.

[7:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, of course.

[7:15] Kevin Chamberlin: Sing that all the time. And I knew people involved in that production, and I met them during that time when they were doing Lucky Stiff. And so they kind of knew of me, and so that kind of helped me get cast in the chorus. And then just a few years later, they were like, we're writing this musical based on the works of Dr. Seuss, and we would love for you to play Horton.

[7:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. And so how early in the process was this? Because I know that they're-

[7:44] Kevin Chamberlin: That was the very first reading.

[7:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The very first reading. So you, Eric Idle.

[7:47] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. Eric Idle was the cat.

[7:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: From, of course, Monty Python.

[7:52] Kevin Chamberlin: Yep. A lot of the original cast members that stuck with it.

[7:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really?

[7:56] Kevin Chamberlin: They basically cast it from that very first reading.

[7:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow.

[8:00] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. Then we did a workshop up in Toronto, and Andrea Martin played the cat.

[8:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay. So now this particular workshop lives in infamy in my mind. Because, if I remember correctly, Live In, they were the ones who put it on, who made it possible, which is why it was in Canada. They're an infamous, at this point, production company.

[8:20] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. And then Garth Kravinsky went to jail.

[8:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That old chestnut. But at this workshop, it was such a hit in the room. Andrea Martin was playing the cat in the hat. Kind of a bidding war happened between producers about who was going to present this thing on Broadway. Could you feel that excitement when you were working on this thing?

[8:43] Kevin Chamberlin: Totally. Yeah. It was frustrating because we really wanted the workshop to happen in New York. Because if you do a Broadway workshop, you get a profit sharing point.

[8:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, shoot. I didn't know that. Okay.

[8:56] Kevin Chamberlin: The people in the chorus line sued the producers because it was their lives.

[9:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. Of course.

[9:02] Kevin Chamberlin: And so then they developed this workshop contract. But then they got around that by going to Equity Toronto, which doesn't have that Canadian equity.

[9:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting.

[9:13] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. And it was magical. It was a magical workshop.

[9:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, one of the things that I really think is an ingenious part of Seussical is how all of these stories of Dr. Seuss are intertwined in this one evening, this one Seussical, if you will. And sometimes it's a character as large as Horton the Elephant. And sometimes it's as small as one lyric, right? That Lynn Ahrens very smartly snuck into a whole montage. So all of these references, I mean, it had to have been quite a puzzle to put together. And looking at the credits of the show, Eric Idle is listed as one of the writers. So in that very first workshop that you were part of, was that a lot about finding how all of these stories were working together? How much was actually being workshopped in that first?

[10:10] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. I mean, they had an embarrassment of riches with all the books.

[10:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[10:15] Kevin Chamberlin: They really... At first, it was kind of like a review. And they kind of realized... And this was even before I was on. This is what Lynn has spoken about. Eric Idle's favorite Dr. Seuss book is Bartholomew Cubbins and his 10,000 Hats. And so, I mean, that's a musical there.

[10:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. That's an entire three acts.

[10:42] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. Have you ever seen the 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T?

[10:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No. But I know the look of it. Trippy.

[10:51] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. Brilliant design. And it has that rhyming, a lot of that rhyming. They used a lot of that nonsense stuff. There's a song called Dress Me Up in My Demi-Do-Duds. And it's great. You should check out the movie. It's brilliant. Hans Conrad plays Dr. T and he's brilliant. Some great music in it.

[11:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How cool.

[11:17] Kevin Chamberlin: And the design is just nuts. So, they figured out that the books with the most heart were the Horton books. They realized that they could have these other stories collide into him. Because you have all the Whoville, and then you have Grinch, and you have the jungle, and all those characters in the jungle. You have the-

[11:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Maisie.

[11:42] Kevin Chamberlin: Maisie and Gertrude. So, it was good to have those locations. And then you need variation in a musical. And Horton, he's traveling, which brings him to the Circus McGurkis and all the birds take away the dust speck.

[12:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Chasing the Who's.

[12:03] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, so it could have some travel in it and movement. So, it's very, very ingenious. And they have pared away, you know, I don't know if you know the Lorax.

[12:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The Lorax. Yeah, the lore of the Lorax. Absolutely. I do want to get into that. One little follow up here. I had never considered that the reason that Horton might be the grounding center of all of this is because his story is the one of Dr. Seuss's that has the most heart. But it's really true. As I'm sitting here and thinking about it, you know, Seuss, surreal, absolutely. Ridiculous and imaginative, 100%. Political and biting at times, 100%. And also, when you think about like the true heart and the love that is the care of Horton with the egg or the speck, it really does kind of all rest on his, you know, mighty, mighty frame.

[13:01] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. It's all about loyalty and seeing through a promise and complete honesty. And that's what was fun about playing Horton is that he has the honesty and openness and heart of a nine or 10 year old. And that's how I played him. You know, he is the most sane character surrounded by all this craziness. So he's really a reactor to all of this. And he's the metaphorical spine of the show. But he also has the strongest spine.

[13:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 100%. 100%. And I don't mean to just flatter you, but on the cast album, the sincerity that you're able to find in terms of the vocal delivery of all of that dialogue that you guys put on the album is really the standard for, I think, all of us who are licensing the show afterward. When you say that you were trying to tap into like the sincerity of a nine or 10 year old, you hear it just in the way that you're able to say some of these ridiculous words in the most sincere fashion.

[14:09] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. Simple, simple, simple. That is the trick to Horton. And I'm always asked by students who are playing him, you know, they'll send me a message. And I always say, just find that childlike innocence. And you are the heart and soul of that.

[15:28] Kevin Chamberlin: You want to do that. It's as if you've been trapped in a room with no doors. What does that feel like? Use your imagination. Yeah, because a lot of things in the theater, we've never experienced. We've never experienced murder. I hope you know, I hope.

[15:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Seriously.

[15:45] Kevin Chamberlin: And that's what SEUSSICAL, going back to SEUSSICAL, SEUSSICAL is all about the imagination. That's what gets Jojo in trouble, but it's also what saves the planet of Who. He imagines this crazy word, yop. And on a weird side note, last night I was the guest speller at Putnam County Spelling Bee.

[16:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No way.

[16:06] Kevin Chamberlin: And my first word, he goes, your word is yop.

[16:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Did everybody lose it? Come on. That's really smart. I'm so glad they did that.

[16:21] Kevin Chamberlin: It was really smart. My second word, I didn't even tell you because it was so hard to spell when I was out.

[16:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're like, bye, everyone. That's amazing. All right, well, let's talk a little bit more about Mr. Dr. Seuss. Theodor Seuss Geisel, born March 2nd, 1904, started as a cartoonist and famous illustrator.

[16:43] Kevin Chamberlin: He was making political cartoons and started going by Dr. Seuss as he found his way into children's literature and children's books. His first one that came out was And To Think I Saw It on Mulberry Street.

[16:58] Kevin Chamberlin: And what's cool is that he did achieve success before he passed away, which I think so many legendary authors or artists don't always experience. But by the time he died, his books, several of his books had become the most popular children's books of all time, translated into hundreds of languages and sold millions and millions of copies.

[17:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What was your introduction to Seuss? Were you growing up with those stories?

[17:23] Kevin Chamberlin: Yes. Well, I loved The Grinch. I remember very vividly Horton Hears a Who because they made an animated TV special out of it back in the 60s.

[17:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I loved those old school ones. So fun.

[17:40] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. And researching the show, I came across the more political ones like The Butter Battle Book, which I did not know as a child, which is his anti-war war.

[17:54] Kevin Chamberlin: For those in the audience that don't know The Butter Battle Book, it ends with two people on either side of a wall holding up a what's called, he calls it the bitsy big boy boomeroo. And it will literally annihilate the other side. And they're both holding it over each other's wall.

[18:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, wow.

[18:15] Kevin Chamberlin: And the last line of it is, how will it end? How will it end?

[18:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Holy cow. My gosh.

[18:23] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. It's the battle over which side to butter your bread.

[18:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And that's how it all begins.

[18:30] Kevin Chamberlin: I didn't think I knew that one.

[18:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It doesn't matter how butter is spread.

[18:34] Kevin Chamberlin: Oh, my gosh. How wonderful.

[18:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Star-Bellied Sneetches.

[18:38] Kevin Chamberlin: Oh, well, that's what I was going to say. The Sneetches and There's a Wocket in My Pocket. Those were the two that I think I grew up reading the most.

[18:46] Kevin Chamberlin: Mulberry Street is interesting because it starts out very tiny. It's on a big white page. They're small. And as you go through the book, the pictures get bigger and bigger. So that by the last couple pages, it covers the entire page.

[19:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, how smart.

[19:02] Kevin Chamberlin: Something you wouldn't really.

[19:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like the progression of that as the reader.

[19:06] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. It's pretty cool.

[19:08] Kevin Chamberlin: That's very sophisticated. It's so cool. So then another one of his famous stories, The Lorax. And so now let's please go back to The Lorax, because this was its own little one act kind of within Seussical for a very long time.

[19:23] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, it came halfway into the second act. And when Jojo runs away, he comes across the Truffula trees and the Lorax. And the Lorax tells him about how they were all chopped down. And it was Dr. Seuss's environment story.

[19:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[19:42] Kevin Chamberlin: And they wrote this 20 minute, I don't know, maybe 15 minute segment with Alice Clayton, may she rest in peace, as the Lorax.

[19:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because she was also the mayor's wife. So she was playing both?

[19:57] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah.

[19:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: My gosh. And legend, by the way, musical theater legend, Alice Clayton.

[20:01] Kevin Chamberlin: Oh, yeah. She was a baby June in the tour. I think the tour with Merman. I don't know if it was on Broadway.

[20:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh.

[20:09] Kevin Chamberlin: She was famous for...

[20:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Was it Dolly?

[20:13] Kevin Chamberlin: She was also in Dolly. Yep. But the Tony Award performance. And it's Henry, Henry, Sweet Henry.

[20:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, Henry, Sweet Henry, of course. Oh, my gosh. I love that we're dropping Henry, Henry, Sweet Henry in the Seussical episode. That's amazing.

[20:30] Kevin Chamberlin: But she was amazing and passed away far too young.

[20:34] Kevin Chamberlin: So she was playing the Lorax.

[20:36] Kevin Chamberlin: She played the Lorax and Eddie Corbett. Eddie is in the, you know, the Maltby and Shire, Starting Here, Starting Now.

[20:44] Kevin Chamberlin: They've written a third. It's the aging part. It's all the senior citizen songs.

[20:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh.

[20:53] Kevin Chamberlin: And some of the people from the original Starting Here, Starting Now are in it.

[20:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. I didn't know about this.

[21:00] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, like 50 years later.

[21:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How cute is that, though?

[21:04] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah.

[21:05] Kevin Chamberlin: I love Maltby and Shire. And Eddie, also, like the original Scuttle in Little Mermaid. I mean, he's done so many things.

[21:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So who was he playing in this?

[21:15] Kevin Chamberlin: He was the Onceler who tells the story of the Lorax.

[21:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: OK, and then so now just thinking ahead to what the second act is, Little Jojo comes in contact with the Lorax. Is that what ultimately fuels him to go back? And then once the Lorax was cut, is that where Having a Hunch got put in or were those all in there?

[21:37] Kevin Chamberlin: Exactly.

[21:38] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, and they put in the nod to Oh, the Places You'll Go, which I think was his last book.

[21:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think that was his last one.

[21:48] Kevin Chamberlin: Yep.

[21:49] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah.

[21:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's the book that everybody gets when they graduate from high school.

[21:53] Kevin Chamberlin: That's where I'm from.

[21:55] Kevin Chamberlin: And Orton Hatches an Egg is a great gift for someone who's adopting.

[22:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, stop it. You're going to make me teary eyed. That's so sweet. I can't.

[22:07] Kevin Chamberlin: Yes, it's all about these books that make you cry.

[22:09] Kevin Chamberlin: Make you very.

[22:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I just got welled up talking about the Butter Battle book.

[22:14] Kevin Chamberlin: I get it. I get it.

[22:16] Kevin Chamberlin: OK, so now the show obviously is too long.

[22:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: There's all of these amazing stories.

[22:22] Kevin Chamberlin: There's so much to fit in it.

[22:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[22:25] Kevin Chamberlin: You know, with the Lorax section, you lost Orton's story. That's why they had to cut it.

[22:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it was so sad because then Eddie really didn't have anything to do.

[22:36] Kevin Chamberlin: He was really bummed because that was his big one.

[22:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, of course.

[22:42] Kevin Chamberlin: The first preview came in at three hours and five minutes.

[22:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And you're like, if this is for a family audience, who's going to be sitting that long?

[22:54] Kevin Chamberlin: So you guys go out of town with this full production.

[22:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And was it Boston as well?

[23:00] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah.

[23:02] Kevin Chamberlin: And I knew from the first presentation of the renderings that it just wasn't right.

[23:09] Kevin Chamberlin: How do you anthropomorphize these cartoon characters?

[23:13] Kevin Chamberlin: It was a big question.

[23:15] Kevin Chamberlin: And the designer, the original designer, had me in these big ears.

[23:20] Kevin Chamberlin: And those big ears were a lighting nightmare.

[23:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, I'm sure.

[23:24] Kevin Chamberlin: How do we even see your face? And we kept going back to that original Toronto workshop where it's all about the imagination.

[23:34] Kevin Chamberlin: We did that Toronto workshop in colored sweatpants.

[23:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow.

[23:38] Kevin Chamberlin: I was just wearing gray shorts and a gray sweatshirt.

[23:42] Kevin Chamberlin: And you can do it that way. I've seen clips of the University of Texas, I think, just did one that was in modern-day dress, like complete modern-day dress.

[23:52] Kevin Chamberlin: Everybody, super cash. Almost like with graffiti on the—it was cool.

[23:57] Kevin Chamberlin: This is one of my favorite things about Seussical, is thinking back to what made that workshop so magical. You talked about the feeling in the room. We talked about the money behind it that everyone was so excited to present it from producers.

[24:13] Kevin Chamberlin: And to add to that, I remember my favorite time watching Cats was a designer run in a rehearsal room. And everybody was just in normal clothes and had a rope tied around their waist that was a tail. And gone was all of the makeup, all of the junkyard. And it was just the imagination.

[24:34] Kevin Chamberlin: And honestly, I was far more invested in all of these individuals and the movement. So I can see how adding more and more and more isn't always a great idea, specifically with this show.

[24:50] Kevin Chamberlin: I would even venture further in saying, I don't know if I've ever seen in person a production of Seussical that ever lived up to me listening to your cast album for the first time. Because what I was envisioning in my head has never quite materialized in person.

[25:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Does that make sense?

[25:09] Kevin Chamberlin: Almost in a Jesus Christ Superstar sort of way?

[25:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't know.

[25:13] Kevin Chamberlin: But I think it has to be intimate.

[25:18] Kevin Chamberlin: Even in a big theater, it has to feel intimate.

[25:21] Kevin Chamberlin: It has to feel—I don't know if you're familiar with Paul Sills' story theater.

[25:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, please.

[25:28] Kevin Chamberlin: Say you're talking about a lake. You pull out a blue piece of fabric and lay it down on the floor.

[25:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, sure.

[25:35] Kevin Chamberlin: If you have a tree, you bring in a ladder. And you have someone over on the side doing sound effects. It's very do-it-yourself theater.

[25:45] Kevin Chamberlin: I always wanted to do a production that takes place in a classroom. And everything that is used in the show for props and everything is pulled from a desk.

[25:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, I love that.

[26:00] Kevin Chamberlin: You can do tons of stuff like that. Or if I had $10 million, I would have a pile of the books. And you just see the titles. And then they get pulled out and opened up, and it's a pop-up.

[26:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, come on.

[26:15] Kevin Chamberlin: Wouldn't that be?

[26:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, the money.

[26:17] Kevin Chamberlin: That would be—

[26:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Stunning.

[26:19] Kevin Chamberlin: Well, speaking of money, so they go through in Boston. You guys have these elaborate costumes, which I believe were intended to look like the illustrations, right?

[26:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Was that like the intention was to try and bring to life literally the illustration?

[26:37] Kevin Chamberlin: You know, you would have to ask the designer.

[26:41] Kevin Chamberlin: Sure.

[26:43] Kevin Chamberlin: Some of them just made no sense whatsoever.

[26:46] Kevin Chamberlin: They were kind of bland-looking. And as soon as we did our first costume parade, Lynn talks about going, Oh, no, just sinking in her seat out in the theater and going, Oh, no, this isn't right. This doesn't look right.

[27:04] Kevin Chamberlin: Usually when you add that next level, you're like, Ooh, our show is coming together. And you see everybody in costume, and everyone was looking at each other and going, What are you supposed to be?

[27:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, no.

[27:20] Kevin Chamberlin: And Harada, I remember, just sitting there crying, going, What am I supposed to be? What animal am I? And then the costume person was gone, and they brought in William Ivey Long.

[27:38] Kevin Chamberlin: And in the interim, he said, We're trashing all the opening costumes, and we want you all to wear black until we redesign the main characters' costumes.

[27:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it looked like Chicago.

[27:54] Kevin Chamberlin: That's interesting.

[27:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that's interesting.

[27:57] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, we were all told to go out and buy a Just get a black pair of pants and a T-shirt.

[28:03] Kevin Chamberlin: So I went out and bought a fabulous black leather sport jacket.

[28:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[28:10] Kevin Chamberlin: Make them buy it for you. Like, I'm taking this thing.

[28:15] Kevin Chamberlin: And then they put red and white stripes in the fabric in the lining.

[28:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, the lining.

[28:22] Kevin Chamberlin: So when I opened it up, you know, there was a little Seuss thing. Touch.

[28:26] Kevin Chamberlin: So I still have that.

[28:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh.

[28:29] Kevin Chamberlin: And the set was very dark.

[28:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: OK.

[28:33] Kevin Chamberlin: And that's the opposite of what you want.

[28:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting.

[28:36] Kevin Chamberlin: So they brought in Tony Walton, who—

[28:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Who's a legend in his own right.

[28:41] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, and he just took buckets of paint and made everything Seuss blue and bright cherry red, and, you know, it just popped everything.

[28:54] Kevin Chamberlin: A couple of pieces. And then, they realized they weren't utilizing David Shiner's talents enough. Who, at this point, was the Cat in the Hat. Yeah. They brought in... Rob Marshall replaced Frank Galati, who was fired. May he rest in peace. An incredible director. I mean, Frank Galati directed Ragtime. Yeah. I mean, amazing Steppenwolf Theatre company member. But it just wasn't right for this.

[29:27] Kevin Chamberlin: Wasn't right. Rob Marshall is... I worked with one of my first jobs I ever did, you know, before he went on to become a great film director. I did 1940s Radio Hour with him.

[29:41] Jeff: Did you? Really?

[29:42] Kevin Chamberlin: St. Louis. Yeah.

[29:43] Jeff: Oh my gosh. How cute.

[29:45] Kevin Chamberlin: He choreographed it. But he felt like the Cat in the Hat didn't have a number. So, after we closed in Boston, they wrote A Day for the Cat in the Hat.

[29:55] Jeff: Which now is gone again.

[29:58] Kevin Chamberlin: Is it?

[29:59] Jeff: It got the axe now in the licensed version.

[30:01] Kevin Chamberlin: In the 2003?

[30:02] Jeff: The Cat in the Cat in the Cat in the Cat in the Hat. That one?

[30:06] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. There's something that's used for Thing 1 and Thing 2, which were not in Seussical.

[30:12] Jeff: Oh, okay.

[30:13] Kevin Chamberlin: And they also rewrote it after the Broadway one for the tour that Chris Ashley directed, where they started the show off by pulling a boy from the audience who plays Jojo.

[30:27] Jeff: So, it was much more Pippin, almost.

[30:30] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. A little contemporary boy who gets brought into the world.

[30:38] Jeff: Zooming out just a little bit, because these are such interesting details. As all of this stuff is happening, as the new paint's going in, as the old costumes are getting put in the dumpster, which I'm sure were incredibly expensive. And then there's a whole new set of costumes. Are you all feeling, and you can only speak for yourself, I'm sure, but are you all feeling that you're getting closer to what you want? Or is it getting further and further away?

[31:06] Kevin Chamberlin: I thought we had a huge hit until opening night when the reviews came out.

[31:12] Jeff: Oh, okay.

[31:14] Kevin Chamberlin: I was so in my bubble.

[31:16] Jeff: Wow.

[31:17] Kevin Chamberlin: And so concentrating on just making, you know...

[31:21] Jeff: What you're doing.

[31:23] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. I mean, it's terrifying. I was the lead in a new musical. It was my dream. And so, I really kind of protected myself.

[31:32] Jeff: Oh, I love that.

[31:35] Kevin Chamberlin: And it's funny, when you have a small role and you're in the chorus, that's much more of a gossipy... You know much more what's going on when you're in the chorus.

[31:46] Jeff: You have time to look around and make some notes.

[31:49] Kevin Chamberlin: Yes. Yeah. You're not in your script, and you're not getting rewrites every day.

[31:55] Jeff: Sure.

[31:56] Kevin Chamberlin: And it was very eye-opening when I got into the limousine with the press rep to go from the opening night from the theater to the party. And he goes, Kevin, we're in trouble.

[32:10] Jeff: Oh, no.

[32:12] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah. All the critics are going to tear this apart. And so, I had to walk into the party knowing this. And I had no... I was clueless.

[32:22] Jeff: Oh, gosh.

[32:23] Kevin Chamberlin: Clueless.

[32:25] Jeff: Well, I gotta say, I don't think you all deserved the horrible reviews that you got. And by the way, you need to know that here on this podcast, the word flop is not a bad word.

[32:35] Kevin Chamberlin: No. I've been a part... Adam's Family went through the same thing. They fired the director out of town. It was lost in Chicago as opposed to lost in Boston.

[32:46] Jeff: Do you know what? Speaking of Adam's Family, there's a slime tutorial, as they say, floating around out there of the original Chicago production of Adam's Family.

[32:55] Kevin Chamberlin: And I randomly stumbled upon it thinking it was the Adam's Family that I knew. Oh, my gosh, it was so different.

[33:02] Jeff: Very different.

[33:03] Kevin Chamberlin: Like that whole opening number that feels like ritualistic and...

[33:08] Jeff: Yeah. No, it was supposed to be a bat mitzvah for Wednesday.

[33:13] Kevin Chamberlin: For Wednesday, right.

[33:14] Jeff: Yeah, where they bury her and rise her from the grave.

[33:19] Kevin Chamberlin: Very dark. And then the new director came in and was like, well, first of all, you don't have ba-da-ba-dum, ba-da-ba-dum.

[33:27] Jeff: Can we please? Well, now that you mentioned Adam's Family, I mean, another show that wasn't considered a huge success on Broadway, but boy, oh boy, has more than made up for it in regional houses and just licensing in general.

[33:45] Kevin Chamberlin: Every high school.

[33:46] Jeff: So with Seussical, you have the Weisslers as the producers, and they are infamous for keeping a show going. Even though you don't have great reviews, you had some fans.

[33:58] Kevin Chamberlin: And one of the most important fans was Rosie O'Donnell, who only a couple...

[34:02] Jeff: Which, by the way, I'm a huge Rosie fan.

[34:05] Kevin Chamberlin: That's how I saw all of my Broadway shows growing up was tuning into her show.

[34:09] Jeff: But she loved Seussical.

[34:11] Kevin Chamberlin: She didn't understand what the critics were talking about. And a few seasons before, she was really credited for helping Titanic, pardon the pun, turn things around.

[34:21] Jeff: And so they wisely capitalized on her love for the show and brought her in as the Cat at some point, right?

[34:31] Kevin Chamberlin: She did a month. And in the toughest month for Broadway is always February. The cold weather and tourists really don't...

[34:41] Jeff: Not interesting.

[34:42] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, so she did the whole month.

[34:44] Jeff: Wow.

[34:44] Kevin Chamberlin: I got to go on her show and invite her.

[34:47] Jeff: Oh, how fun.

[34:49] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah.

[34:50] Jeff: Oh, that's fab.

[34:50] Kevin Chamberlin: Here's pictures of that. Maybe you could...

[34:52] Jeff: Yes, I would absolutely... I'm definitely looking those up.

[34:56] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, and we did a couple numbers. We did Notice Me Horton and...

[35:00] Jeff: The Great Janine LaManna.

[35:01] Kevin Chamberlin: There's a thing called the Broadway Rave. Have you ever heard about this?

[35:04] Jeff: No, what is that?

[35:05] Kevin Chamberlin: They go to... There's a company that goes to rock venues, and they have a DJ that just plays Broadway.

[35:15] Jeff: And everyone goes into the mosh pit and into the dance floor.

[35:19] Kevin Chamberlin: And everyone sings along with the Broadway songs.

[35:24] Jeff: And people come dressed in Les Mis or as Audrey and Seymour.

[35:29] Kevin Chamberlin: And you get to act out the song while it's being played.

[35:34] Jeff: That sounds so cute.

[35:36] Kevin Chamberlin: And so it's like Club Kid meets Broadway costumes and characters.

[35:40] Jeff: Yeah, yeah.

[35:41] Kevin Chamberlin: Honestly, that is where Seussical would shine.

[35:44] Jeff: Are you kidding?

[35:45] Kevin Chamberlin: And people go crazy. I've done it twice. I've been a guest.

[35:49] Jeff: Really?

[35:50] Kevin Chamberlin: And I get up and do Notice Me Horton with a girl dressed as...

[35:55] Jeff: Some girls come dressed as Gertrude.

[35:58] Kevin Chamberlin: That is fab. Oh, my gosh. That's so cool.

[36:06] Jeff Chamberlin: So the show...

[36:07] Jeff: This is fun, by the way.

[36:08] Kevin Chamberlin: Oh my gosh. I'm having such a great time.

[36:11] Jeff: Oh good. I just love talking. I love talking with you.

[36:14] Kevin Chamberlin: So the show runs until, I believe, May.

[36:18] Jeff: You guys open in November of 2000. You go, you make it through the winter.

[36:23] Kevin Chamberlin: And...

[36:23] Jeff: They bring in Kathy Rigby to play the Cat.

[36:27] Kevin Chamberlin: And, you know, there was another thing with David Shiner. David Shiner couldn't sing.

[36:33] Jeff: You know, he was known as a...

[36:35] Kevin Chamberlin: I was gonna say he's a physical performer, but not a... His diction was kind of...

[36:39] Jeff: He had a little bit of a moosh mouth.

[36:42] Kevin Chamberlin: Mm-hmm.

[36:43] Jeff: But he had great physicality.

[36:44] Kevin Chamberlin: You know, he was like rubber band.

[36:46] Jeff: Sure.

[36:47] Kevin Chamberlin: But they bought him out of his contract.

[36:50] Jeff: Oh, really?

[36:51] Kevin Chamberlin: And they realized that that could be a stunt casting. So they brought in Rosie.

[36:55] Jeff: And then they brought in Kathy Rigby, who ended up doing the tour.

[36:59] Kevin Chamberlin: Yes, the tour.

[37:00] Jeff: And then they brought in Aaron Carter to do...

[37:03] Kevin Chamberlin: For JoJo.

[37:04] Jeff: That's right. Oh my gosh.

[37:05] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, a lot of stunt casting.

[37:08] Jeff: Was it...

[37:09] Kevin Chamberlin: No, if you don't want to answer this, that's totally fine. Despite all of the trouble or the cloudy, stormy weather surrounding the show financially, was it a tight group? Did you enjoy working with each other?

[37:20] Kevin Chamberlin: Oh, yeah. We've had a couple of great reunion concerts at 54 Below.

[37:28] Jeff: I love that.

[37:29] Kevin Chamberlin: Tight, because it's like war buddies. Whether you like it or not, you're bonded for life.

[37:36] Jeff: Amen.

[37:37] Kevin Chamberlin: The Tony Award nominations come out, and the show only gets one nomination.

[37:42] Jeff: And it was yours.

[37:44] Kevin Chamberlin: So huge congrats to you on that.

[37:46] Jeff: It's tough to go to the theater. It's tough to celebrate that, I'm sure.

[37:50] Kevin Chamberlin: But...

[37:51] Jeff: And it happened to get on Adam's Family. Were you the only one for Adam's Family, too?

[37:55] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, and the score got nominated, too.

[37:58] Jeff: Okay.

[37:59] Kevin Chamberlin: Well, that's what I was going to say. I'm surprised that the score didn't get nominated, because boy, oh boy, did Ahrens and Flaherty write some earworms for this thing?

[38:08] Kevin Chamberlin: I have a funny story for you, if you don't mind. I was an LDS missionary when the show came out. I was serving in Texas as a Spanish-speaking missionary, which meant no secular music or television or anything.

[38:23] Jeff: So I was on a strict diet of all of my Broadway things.

[38:27] Kevin Chamberlin: And yet, my mom, who's just an angel on Earth, she collected all of the cast albums that came out while I was gone, so that when I came home, I could binge and learn about everything I missed.

[38:34] Jeff: So when I came home from my mission, I had the producers, I had Hairspray, I had Seussical.

[38:43] Kevin Chamberlin: And so I listened to everything. And I have this very specific memory of going to the Salt Lake Temple, like the big, legendary Salt Lake City Temple.

[38:53] Jeff: I lived in Salt Lake City as a kid.

[39:54] Kevin Chamberlin: You what?

[39:54] Jeff: I lived in Salt Lake City as a kid.

[39:56] Kevin Chamberlin: Stop it.

[39:57] Jeff: Seriously?

[39:58] Kevin Chamberlin: In Holiday.

[39:59] Jeff: Oh my gosh, of course, Holiday.

[40:01] Kevin Chamberlin: Cottonwood Elementary.

[40:03] Jeff: Cottonwood.

[40:04] Kevin Chamberlin: I'm sure I played them in tennis.

[40:08] Jeff: That's so crazy.

[40:10] Kevin Chamberlin: Anyway, so I'm in the Salt Lake Temple, and I'm in the place where you do your meditation. You try and get as quiet as possible and really reflect on things.

[40:21] Jeff: And I'm getting to that place where I can feel what the Spirit is drumming up in me.

[40:26] Kevin Chamberlin: And in that moment, I hear, and I'm like, okay, you know what? Number one, hilarious. And number two, secular or not, this musical theater thing is a part of me, and it's not going anywhere.

[40:44] Jeff: So anybody out there who might be listening, who may find themselves in the slush room in Salt Lake City, by all means, go ahead and hum Oh, The Things You Can Think for me.

[40:53] Kevin Chamberlin: But they are just such great tunes.

[40:57] Jeff: So hummable, and truly just kind of seep into your DNA.

[41:01] Kevin Chamberlin: So I am surprised that I didn't get a nom.

[41:04] Jeff: Yeah.

[41:05] Kevin Chamberlin: You know, Jacob Elordi, who played Frankenstein?

[41:09] Jeff: Yes.

[41:10] Kevin Chamberlin: Have you read interviews with him?

[41:12] Jeff: Has he?

[41:12] Kevin Chamberlin: Hasn't he talked about Seussical?

[41:14] Jeff: Yes.

[41:15] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, he's played the Pant in a Hat in Australia.

[41:18] Jeff: Of course he did.

[41:19] Kevin Chamberlin: That's brilliant casting.

[41:21] Jeff: Brilliant.

[41:22] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, that's how he caught the acting bug.

[41:25] Jeff: That means that Jacob Elordi's listened to you, Kevin.

[41:28] Kevin Chamberlin: That's pretty impressive.

[41:29] Jeff: I cannot wait to meet him.

[41:32] Kevin Chamberlin: And please introduce yourself as Horton the Elephant.

[41:35] Jeff: He'll be thrilled.

[41:37] Kevin Chamberlin: So handsome.

[41:39] Jeff: Wait, so now, okay, we're pivoting again from Seussical, but you were on Disney Channel forever in Jessie.

[41:47] Kevin Chamberlin: And so between that show and Seussical, you have to be a main piece of childhoods all over this fine world.

[41:57] Kevin Chamberlin: Crazy.

[41:57] Jeff: I cannot walk, I mean, especially in New York, and especially now, because there's a lot of school groups. I cannot go a block without being recognized and take tons of pictures.

[42:08] Kevin Chamberlin: That's so sweet.

[42:10] Jeff: It's nuts.

[42:10] Kevin Chamberlin: It's really, at 62 years old, I'm just like this, I'm this icon of people's childhood.

[42:19] Jeff: That's incredible.

[42:20] Kevin Chamberlin: That's incredible.

[42:22] Jeff Chamberlin: What a cool career, which, of course, isn't over.

[42:24] Kevin Chamberlin: I pinch myself sometimes.

[42:26] Jeff: All right, well, with the few minutes that we have left, I want to bring up a few of the stories and characters that are in Seussical, maybe because their songs are some of my favorites, maybe because their stories are so prominent. But I would love to hear your thoughts and reflections about what's underneath all of these stories.

[42:39] Kevin Chamberlin: What's the emotional truth that we're finding and that maybe Seuss is exploring?

[42:42] Jeff: So starting, of course, with Horton, what do we get from a character like Horton and everything that he goes through?

[42:57] Kevin Chamberlin: Well, we touched on it before, loyalty, being faithful to a promise that's made, helping the underdog.

[43:08] Jeff: I'm going to cry.

[43:09] Kevin Chamberlin: You're making me cry now.

[43:13] Jeff: You came to the right place. We cry on mic all the time here.

[43:15] Kevin Chamberlin: I know.

[43:18] Kevin Chamberlin: Yeah, I mean, it's so universal, you know?

[43:21] Jeff: Yeah.

[43:21] Kevin Chamberlin: You can't escape yourself by just changing the outer shell, you know?

[43:28] No. And body acceptance, too. You know? Sometimes it's your biggest asset. When I'm teaching acting, I always tell people to embrace your quirks. Maybe the thing that people made fun of you is what is so sellable about you.

[43:48] Case in point, I was always a chubby kid. I was teased relentlessly. And I wouldn't have gotten the part of an elephant if I'd been a little skinny thing. No twinkie elephants out there. Not too many. So, and that's what's great. It always touches my heart when I meet a chubby kid in high school who's like, I got the lead! I got the lead in the musical! And I get to kiss the girl at the end. You know?

[44:23] Yeah. We were always relegated to Nicely Nicely and Bill is in South Pacific and, you know, all the second and third string, second bananas, you know, all the characters. And finally, a chubby character actor gets to have the lead. The lead actor who's the hero.

[44:41] Yeah. Truly the hero. Ah, that's so beautiful.

[44:45] Yeah, that's so beautiful. And in many ways is the perfect match for her, because what a great symbol of self-acceptance, right? The big guy who was willing to sit on an egg.

[44:56] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's wonderful. You know, you teach him earth and I'll teach him sky.

[45:03] Oh, stop. Oh my gosh. I can't with you. You're gonna make me. I had a hard time getting through that eight shows a week.

[45:14] Of course! It never got old. That sweet melody that's attached to it.

[45:20] Yeah. Oh gosh, that's so sweet. See? Okay. We talked a little bit about war, which is incredibly important right now. Hello.

[45:32] Yeah. And then I was in the recent version is the butter battle in there. Does he go to the military?

[45:37] Yeah, he still goes to military in the regular Seussical. I think for junior. They don't do General Genghis Khan Schmidt. They don't do the military school song.

[45:50] Yeah, for either. I can't remember if it's for junior or for kids, because there's Seussical Junior and then Seussical Kids. And it's definitely cut for kids. I can't remember if it's also cut for junior. They kind of skip right to It's Possible instead of going.

[46:07] Oh, Miguela Gets Pool. Let's talk a little bit about that. A really sweet book that I read to my students recently. I think that, oh, The Things You Can Think and It's Possible, both of these songs are such about imagination. As we've said, the success of this show really does depend on the amount of imagination you're willing to invest.

[46:33] I also think, and just about thinking about the world in general, how important the imagination is in seeing the possibility of what we want from the world. I think it's really easy for us to think about changing the world based on what we can buy and what we can sell. But truly, when you look at those dreamers who are willing to imagine what life could be, what life could sound like, that's when I think art really does shape our futures and our happiness.

[47:06] And if nothing else, I think Seussical's a beautiful reminder of that. With this little boy, this Jojo, who has found a doppelganger, if you will, with Horton, these two dreamers.

[47:20] Well, alone in the universe is probably one of the most... I think I'm just exhausted. This never happens in podcast interviews, but every time I sing it, and I do my show around the country, Finding the Joy, and I always find a local kid who's played Jojo, and I bring him up, and we do this alone in the universe. And nine times out of 10, they're brilliant.

[47:51] Of course. And it's the star moment of the show. And they're all very different. Sometimes it's a girl. Sometimes it's a boy. Sometimes it's an 18-year-old. Sometimes it's an 8-year-old.

[48:09] And I'm sure it works every time.

[48:11] Works every time. One of the best songs they wrote.

[48:15] Agreed. It's up there with Wheels of a Dream. I just saw Ragtime a couple nights ago. Oh, my God. Joshua Henry. It doesn't get better than that.

[48:29] I've never heard a show sound so good in my life.

[48:32] Yeah. It's a beautiful production. Truly.

[48:35] They can write a song.

[48:37] But they can write a song, is the point.

[48:39] Oh, my God. Lynn's lyrics. And you know, she started out with Schoolhouse Rock. Writing for kids. And memorable, very memorable songs that we still sing today, like Conjunction Junction. I don't know if she wrote that one, but she wrote one called Interplanetary Janet.

[49:01] Interplanetary Janet. Absolutely.

[49:04] It goes to one of the things that I believe, especially when you look at Seuss, and Lynn Ahrens absolutely shows this, is how smart you have to be in order to write for kids.

[49:17] Yeah. You know? And I think...

[49:19] You know Mo Willem?

[49:21] Mo Willem?

[49:22] Willem. Yeah, his books.

[49:23] No. No, I don't.

[49:25] He is. Check him out.

[49:26] Really?

[49:27] He's an old friend of ours from the alternative theater days back when I moved to New York in the 80s and early 90s. And now he is one of the top children's book writers.

[49:39] Wow.

[49:40] And he does the same thing. He's like, you have to entertain the adults as well as the kids, because the adults are the ones reading it. And adults love his books. They love it. So, Mo Willem.

[49:53] So, now this kind of brings me to where I wanted to end with this, which is Broadway is a very expensive place. And there are family type shows like Aladdin, like Lion King. I think maybe even Wicked at this point is considered a show that you can bring your kids to. And they are successes, if not downright blockbusters, right? Juggernauts. Is there a place for children's theater in commercial Broadway? What do you think?

[50:25] Always. Yeah. And there's a theater on 42nd Street, the Victory Theater.

[50:31] Yes.

[50:31] It's a program just for kids.

[50:35] That's awesome.

[50:36] Mostly for kids. And it's usually companies from Europe that come in. A lot of clown-based stuff. Yeah, they do very well. So, I think we're hungry for that. We're hungry for family fare. You come to New York with your two or three kids, and you want something that's wholesome, but entertaining, and maybe a little challenging, but metaphorical.

[51:01] And I was talking to the producer of When Playwrights Kill, the show I'm doing now, and he's like, I want to produce a revival of Seuss School.

[51:18] Oh, my gosh. That's amazing.

[51:21] I mean, it really should be done. I mean, it would sell so much better than it originally did, because people know the title.

[51:28] Agreed. Agreed. That's for sure. And they love the songs. Have you seen, I don't mean to badmouth anyone, but have you seen the artwork for that off-Broadway version?

[51:43] So, there was an off-Broadway version a couple of years ago.

[51:47] It was. I don't remember it. It's on the album.

[51:50] I'm just warning you, okay? If you're going on Spotify and you're looking for that cast album, when the artwork pops up, it may haunt your dreams, okay? When you see what Horn looks like.

[52:03] But I'm sure the people who created it were very kind and good at their jobs.

[52:09] I know who directed it, but yeah, I didn't get to see it.

[52:16] They just did a concert of it at 54 Below, and they used him.

[52:22] Oh, that guy who was Horn?

[52:24] Yeah, I couldn't make it.

[52:26] Because he's booked and blessed, people. He's a busy man.

[52:32] Thank you so much for doing this with me. What an absolute joy. I feel like we've been able to capture the heart of the show, and why it means a lot to a lot of people.

[53:42] More importantly, we've been able to cry together.

[53:44] Thank you! We need the release, everyone, okay? Life is stressful right now. No, but thank you. This has really been wonderful. I really appreciate it.

[53:56] It's been pure joy for me. Thank you, Jim.

[53:59] As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast@gmail.com.

[54:07] You better be joining us at Patreon! Where for only a few dollars a month, you can be part of our Patreon fam and get bonus episodes, contests, essays, polls, all sorts of things that make that community very special.

[54:21] And I'm grateful for all of those who join us. We're also on social media, so please share us so that people can hear about the show, hear about these episodes, and be a part of the conversation.

[54:31] More than anything, I love that you're here. Oh, also, RT Public Store, because maybe you want to give back. And so, we have some great designs in RT Public Store where if we receive any profits from those, we give them to Broadway Cares Equity Fights Aids.

[54:45] Ooh, I think I said everything.

[54:47] Hey, Kevin, before you go, please, are you on socials? Are you on the socials? Let us know how we follow you, and can you please plug your show one more time?

[55:00] Yeah, I'm actually the king of social media.

[55:01] Yes!

[55:01] I am. Now, I'm the only 62-year-old with 11.4 million followers.

[55:06] Oh, my goodness, Kevin!

[55:09] When you talk about the whole, you know, being an icon for a generation.

[55:14] Yeah.

[55:14] A generation that's on TikTok, they follow me. And it's been quite flattering and also humbling.

[55:23] And I had to hire someone, you know. He was a good friend of mine that really got me on TikTok. And he kind of curates everything. Whatever's trending, he gets me on there.

[55:39] Like, I was figuring it out. When I did Wicked for a year, about 200,000 people saw me in one year.

[55:47] In a year?

[55:48] When I do a video on TikTok, 50 million people will see it in a week.

[55:54] And...

[55:55] That's humbling.

[55:56] You can't buy that publicity. You know, you really can't.

[55:59] That's insane.

[56:02] iHeartRadio has contacted me about doing a podcast.

[56:05] Really?

[56:06] Yeah.

[56:07] Look, iHeartRadio, you're going to go on Las Colcheristas and get a lot more views.

[56:12] That's fantastic.

[56:13] I should.

[56:13] Right?

[56:14] Yeah, they should have me as a guest.

[56:15] Absolutely.

[56:17] You can do your, I don't think so, honey.

[56:18] That's really cool.

[56:22] That's really cool.

[56:22] Well, definitely, if we're not already following everyone, if we're not already following Kevin, I mean, what are we waiting for? Let's make that happen.

[56:29] So let me go back and I'll go. If you just type in Chamberlain underscore Kevin on TikTok and Kevin Chamberlain for Instagram, and it's B-E-R-L-I-N.

[56:41] L-I-N. Don't put that A in there, you guys.

[56:44] No, I'm the French derivation. Chamberlain! And then come see When Playwrights Kill in Boston, April 3rd through 18th.

[56:54] And hopefully, if you can't make it there, it'll be on Broadway in the fall.

[56:59] Incredible.

[57:00] Hopefully, I'll be there the fall. So let's make that happen.

[57:03] I'd love to come see you.

[57:05] Thank you again, Kevin.

[57:06] Thank you.

[57:07] Thank you again, Kevin.

[57:09] Have a wonderful night off. Have wonderful rehearsals and break legs if I don't get to talk to you before then.

[57:15] Thank you so much.

[57:16] Thank you.

[57:17] Thank you, everyone, for listening. And remember, I'll teach him land, you'll teach him sky.

[57:22] We should say something to make everyone cry.

[57:24] That just rhymed again.

[57:26] You just rhymed.

[57:28] I cannot be stopped.