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[0:01] Chad Beguelin: Well, we ended up doing our out-of-town in Atlanta. So we had done some workshops. And in the South, too, by the way. Yes. Yes. But it was amazing because it actually there was I wasn't there, but Matt was at a talk back and this old white man stood up and he said, if I knew what this musical was about, I never would have come. But I'm glad I did. And I'm glad those two girls got together at the end. And we were just like, a musical could change your mind so drastically. That's pretty mind blowing. That is a very, very powerful two hours to go from one thing to the next.

[0:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast, where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today we are discussing the musical The Prom, which was a listener request from Audrey, who has the cutest little piggy as her email picture. Thank you for writing in, Audrey. Here to discuss it with us is a writer with, you know, six Tony nominations to his name. He was nominated for writing the book and lyrics for The Wedding Singer, Aladdin, and as a matter of fact, The Prom. Incredible. He's now also a novelist and his new book, Showmance, is out as of October 1st. I am a good 250 pages in and it's funny and sexy and super gay. I can't wait to find out what happens next. Everyone, please, please welcome the very talented Chad Beguelin.

[1:45] Chad Beguelin: Yay!

[1:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thanks for having me. Chad, I'm so grateful you're here. What a total honor to talk about the show. Oh, I didn't even talk to you about this before we started recording. Could you read just the first couple of paragraphs at the beginning of the book? And it ends with the paragraph that ends blink of an eye. Take it away.

[2:08] Chad Beguelin: All right. The thing about the opening night of a Broadway show is that it's supposed to be this glamorous, boozy, buzzy extravaganza. There's a red carpet before the performance for the creative types to pose in front of a step and repeat, with the show's logo splashed across it. There's usually a huge party after the show, someplace criminally insane with everyone swanning around in tuxedos and Academy Award-style dresses. There's insanely loud music blaring so everyone has to shout over their canapes and glasses of champagne. And that's exactly how it is, exhilarating, glitzy, and fun. Unless, unless you're the author. If you're the author of the show, it's as if you've swallowed a ticking time bomb, but you have to keep smiling and shaking hands and filming interviews about what a magical night it is.

When you're the author of the show, there is a very public reckoning coming that could possibly not only destroy your career, but close the show and throw countless actors, musicians, stagehands, dressers, ushers, and so on out of work in the blink of an eye.

[3:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, so I honestly have two thoughts when I first read that. Number one, what is a canapé? Because some of us were born and raised in a small town like you, but then we didn't move to the Hamptons, so we don't know fancy words. So what's a canapé, first of all? Help me out.

[3:31] Chad Beguelin: It's just a very fancy hors d'oeuvre.

[3:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How could hors d'oeuvres be more fancy? This is my question. So then the second question is, well, it's more of an observation. I'm reading this, the first thing out of your book, and I'm like, oh, this feels a little autobiographical. This feels like he knows the lead character very intimately. How much of this story is yours, and what motivated you to write it? Like, was this supposed to be a Netflix limited series, or did you always intend it to be a book?

[4:03] Chad Beguelin: No, I always intended it to be a book. I come from a very small town and was very active in the community theater there, just like the main character, Noah. And, yeah, and so I also was sort of excited about the idea of being able to write. And, you know, when you write a musical or film, there's going to be a director who puts their spin on it. There's going to be actors who put their take on it. And so I was really excited to be able to write and go sort of get the middle people out of the way and go right to the audience and, you know, put them in Noah's head as he's falling in love and putting his foot in his mouth and finding out he's wrong about every single thing and, you know, trying to learn how to be a better person.

So, yeah, I was sort of excited to do that. And also with musicals, they always take so long because it's never the writing that takes long. It's the scheduling and the waiting. You have waiting for a director, then you're waiting for a star, and then you have to wait for the exactly right theater which makes financial sense for your budget. So there's just so much waiting around. And I realized, oh, I have this idea for this story and I can go as fast as I want. I don't have to wait for anybody. And I ended up writing it really, really fast because it just felt so freeing to not have to, you know, sort of schedule and wait and, you know. So, yeah, it was really a new experience.

[5:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's so fun. Just for those who don't know what it is, and believe me, this is all coming back to The Prom because they kind of hold hands, these two shows. It's all about this writer-composer, Noah. He has written the music lyrics and book of a brand-new show, and the show doesn't go exactly how he wants it to. He ends up back in his hometown having to come to face with a lot of, you know, a lot of things that maybe he left when he went to New York City. It's so much fun. It's like, I hope this is not offensive. But, like, I am current, we're in the end of September, going into October, which to me is just summer too. There are lots of places in the country that experience fall and autumn and, like, beautiful cooling of weather.

That is not the case usually on the West Coast and definitely not on Maui. So, like, I am looking for something, like a way to cool down, and I can't wait to finish this book, like, on a beach or by the pool because it's, like, dishy and fun and has a lot of zazz. Anyway, the other thing that I really connect with is, like, all of these small-town things that feel 100% torn from my life. The mom in the story makes, like, a Crock-Pot pizza. Is that from your actual mother?

[6:51] Chad Beguelin: Yes, and it's disgusting.

[6:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Explain to the people what this thing is.

[6:56] Chad Beguelin: Well, she made it once, and we were all just like, that is wild. We're throwing up the red eggs. Never again. Never again. It's like, you know, Toastberry dough put in with a can of potatoes and pepperonis and cheese, and then you cook it in the Crock-Pot and serve it with a ladle. So it looks even more disgusting. It's just awful. And, you know, the great thing about my mom is that she knows that she's not the greatest cook in the world. When I was a kid, everybody in the neighborhood called her the hot dog lady because you only could eat hot dogs from her. Like, if you were coming over for dinner and she was serving anything else, don't, don't. It's going to be hot dogs in the microwave. It's going to be something awful. I don't know what it is about white people in small towns that are just, like, massacre Italian cuisine.

[7:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: In my house, we eat it quite a bit. And to be honest, like, it's nostalgic and I think it tastes really good, but it is not lasagna, Chad. We call it lasagna, but it is egg noodles with cottage cheese and then ground beef that has been cooked in, like, a couple cans of Prego. And then you just, and then you put all of that together and then put cheddar cheese on top. That is not lasagna, right?

[8:15] Chad Beguelin: Not even close.

[8:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But we regularly call it lasagna and eat it on Sundays. Anyway, like, I really connect to this story, but I also connect to The Prom, and I think that that's what kind of made you a perfect choice to write it. Now, for those of you that don't know, the musical The Prom is kind of like a Law & Order episode that was ripped from the headlines, but it's also completely made up. So it's loosely based on this controversy that happened at a Mississippi high school where a girl wanted to take her girlfriend to The Prom, and instead of saying yes, the school board just decided to cancel The Prom for everyone, because that makes sense. And there was a lawsuit. The Prom was reinstated. The young woman shows up to go to The Prom, and there's, like, only seven people there because unbeknownst to her or the school, local parents had organized a secret prom, and everybody went to that one.

Which, be a hypocrite, I guess. We can all be a little hypocritical sometimes, but don't go out of your way to be a dick about it. It's just so, so upsetting. So this is the moment in time, the real-life thing that happens, and then from what I understand, Chad, correct me if I'm wrong, we cut to Jack Vertell, past guest on A Musical Theatre Podcast. He did our Follies episode earlier this year, and he thinks this sounds like a great idea for a musical. Is that right?

[9:39] Chad Beguelin: Yes.

[9:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And his idea was that some fading Broadway stars would go and try and, you know, have a rally and get some good press by trying to help out. And so they go down, and of course, because they're narcissists, make it ten times worse before they make it better. So that was Jack's idea, the idea of, like, the Broadway stars?

[10:00] Chad Beguelin: Yes.

[10:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because that is the thing that I love the most about this show are these four lead characters, and I can't wait to talk to you about them, because I'm sure you had to get to know them intimately. How did Jack think of you and your writing partner Matthew Sklar?

[10:18] Chad Beguelin: I think, if I'm remembering correctly, he was working with Casey at Encores! on...

[10:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Casey Nicholaw.

[10:26] Chad Beguelin: Casey Nicholaw, the director-choreographer, and said, I think this would be good for Bob, Chad, and Matt. It seems like there's sensibility, and, you know, he pitched it to us, we went to Jack's office, and we were just immediately like, done, we're in, let's go. Jack had been around when we were doing The Wedding Singer, sort of in an unofficial dramaturg kind of way. He was a big fan of the show, I remember that.

[10:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. How did you and Matthew start working together? Because this is our first episode about one of your shows together, The Wedding Singer, you've also done Elf together, a couple of other projects. How did you two meet?

[11:09] Chad Beguelin: I originally, when I got out of college, I was just submitting my work everywhere, and there was this place called Musical Theatre Works in the village, and the literary manager, Andrew Barrett, wrote me a rejection letter. But it was the only rejection letter that sort of had a glimmer of hope, like, I'd like to keep hearing your stuff and, you know, keep me posted. So I was always a hustler, so I wrote him back. This was way before e-mails or no internet, that's how long ago it was. And so I wrote him, and I said, I'd really love to take you out to lunch and just get your thoughts about musical theatre and writing. So we went, I met him, and we started talking, and he said he knew of a composer that was looking for a lyricist.

And I said, okay. So he basically said to Matt, you know, and me, like, why don't you guys meet? So we met at a diner and really hit it off. And then Andrew said, you know, we have this space, this slot, but it's three months from now. And not knowing any better, we were like, oh, we can write a musical in three months. And so we actually did. We wrote a musical, a full two-act musical in three months. Yeah, it was crazy. And, you know, we started working together and then, you know, sending our stuff out, finally got a little small theatre to put something on and then slowly built our way up. But yeah, we've been working together now for almost 31 years.

[12:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's insane. 31 years? Seriously?

[12:39] Chad Beguelin: Yeah.

[12:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Gosh. I met Matt the same year I met my husband. So it was a really good year for me. Two partnerships, two partnerships in one.

[12:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So can you help us understand a little bit of what your dynamic is like in terms of collaboration?

[12:58] Chad Beguelin: You know, Matt and I have both been in and out of therapy so much that we are very, very healthy. And, um, you know, I think good at communication. Oh yes. I think we fought maybe twice. And by fought, I mean, I got quiet and he said, what's wrong. Um, you know, we're very, we're very, it's a very healthy working relationship and we're not afraid to, we always try to, you know, say things in a positive way and end the day with great work. And, you know, we're very, uh, uh, you know, in my working relationship with Bob Martin when I'm, you know, working with him on the book is, uh, just to try and make each other laugh and try and help each other. It's a competition always. Um, but, uh, but yeah, no, we're, we're, I'm very lucky that we have the sort of, we have the same temperament, which is just like, you know, let's stay positive. Let's figure things out. It's boring, but it's healthy.

[14:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Let's talk a little bit about Bob Martin that you work with. So Bob Martin probably best known for Drowsy Chaperone being both a writer and man in chair. Did you ever hear about Minsky's or see Minsky's?

[14:19] Chad Beguelin: I, uh, I, we were working on Elf when they were working on Minsky. So we would, they would have conversations about Minsky's in the middle of when we were working on Elf, but I didn't actually see it. It was adorable. And I really hope it sees the light of day again, because it's just a great old-fashioned comedy musical. And I feel like that's what he understands as well.

[14:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So you guys obviously have this battle of the wits sort of thing. What does he bring in terms of structure to book for you, or is it more just like punching it up?

[14:51] Chad Beguelin: No, no, no. I mean, we all start, uh, with a, you know, an outline. We work together and try and song spot and try and figure out where everything's going to go, at least so that Matt and I can go off and write songs and Bob and I can go off and write scenes. And then we come back and put them all together. But, um, you know, he's great at structure. He's great at comedy. Um, the thing I love about working with him is that we just sort of spin and spin and spin and spin and spin the joke and spin the joke and spin the joke until we finally get something that we think is really solid. Um, yeah, but yeah, it's, it's, he's great to work with. They're both great to work with.

[15:26] Chad Beguelin: And of course, Bob Martin had worked with Casey Nicholaw and Beth Leavel in Drowsy Chaperone. So let's kind of dive right into these four characters who are the Broadway narcissists. Um, when you're crafting these different personalities, are you from the get-go saying, well, this is Beth's role?

[15:49] Chad Beguelin: Well, originally it was sort of, we knew we wanted this diva, uh, but we knew we didn't want an actual diva because we didn't want to put up with that for all of you. No one needs it. Exactly. So we were, you know, using archetypes and, you know, people you might know, but I would never say their name because I don't need that in my life. But tell me online, tell me. Yeah. But you know, and Beth was wonderful. I met Beth. Uh, what happened was we actually were doing a reading of Elf and Dee Hody was playing the mother and Dee Hody got sick. And so Casey asked last minute if Beth would step in. And I remember Dee Hody saying through her agent, I'm going to get recast because they're going to fall in love with whoever comes in. And that's exactly what happened. Sorry. I love Dee, by the way, she's fantastic and beautiful voice. Yeah. But, um, uh, and so we just love Beth.

[16:43] Chad Beguelin: And we knew what fun she was to work with. And she, we knew she would, she's so great in the room and she's so easygoing. So we were like, yes, she can pull this off and we don't have to actually have a narcissist, you know, in the role.

[16:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, so you have this character, Dee Dee Allen, two-time Tony Award winner. Yes. You know, very much like Showmance. She has opened this big Broadway musical. It's called Eleanor exclamation point, um, which is all about Eleanor Roosevelt and her co-star is what's his, what's his name? I'm sorry. Barry Glickman, Barry Glickman, who is just adorable. And I think one of the true hearts of the show, how did Brooks come into play this role? Because I just think he's absolutely look I'm sure Santino was awesome in Tootsie and changed his clothes very, very quickly. But I am partial to thinking that Brooks really could have won that Tony Award that year. So, uh, how did he come into the picture?

[17:43] Chad Beguelin: Um, I mean, we were, we were talking about somebody who could really get the comedy and then we started thinking, uh, you know, we're thinking about different actors. And then we sort of, when we were talking about Brooks, we realized that cause Brooks is so hysterically funny, but he's also can be so moving. And I think that was as we developed the piece and we developed the relationship between Emma and Barry, we knew that we had to have someone that you actually feel for, that it wasn't just a clown making jokes, that there was some real trauma underneath and, you know, he could bring that and did it so beautifully.

[18:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, I completely agree. He's also like just surprisingly good dancer.

[18:28] Chad Beguelin: Yes. I love that actually all of the leads in the show get their step ball changed on, uh, speaking of dancers, let's go next to Angie Dickinson.

[18:36] Chad Beguelin: Yes. So Angie wasn't originally, uh, a Fosse girl. We originally, the character was going to be an understudy for Elphaba that never got to go on. And so she was always sort of slightly green cause she couldn't always get the makeup off. And then we realized that was kind of a one-note joke. And it wasn't, we did a reading with that character and we were like, eh, she's not that great. Yeah. So then somebody was like, why does it, what if she's like a Fosse girl, you know, like Angie? And then we're like, yeah, well, who should we get to do it? Why don't we get Angie? So we just wrote it for Angie. And, uh, you know, she was so perfect and great for it. So, uh, we just, we were like, why settle for somebody trying to do an Angie? Let's just get Angie.

[19:20] Chad Beguelin: When you get the real thing. And it's some of the most perfect casting I've ever seen in a musical, because no matter what she does or says or sings, she steps on stage in like a black little cocktail number with the legs that just go on and on and on. And you know exactly who that person is. Right. Yes. Especially standing next to like a bunch of Midwestern, like high school students, you know, like she could not look more like an alien and I, and I, and I love it so much.

[19:55] Chad Beguelin: All right. The fourth guy, uh, Trent, I love that. I can only remember the women's names. That's like the most gay thing that I could possibly do on this episode is only remember the female characters. Trent is obsessed with always talking about how he went to Juilliard, which is, um, something that none of us has ever run into before. So how, how on earth did you come up with that?

[20:16] Chad Beguelin: Well, it's funny when I was right out of college, I did a directing apprenticeship at Juilliard.

[20:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh really? And yeah. Wait, are you a director as well?

[20:26] Chad Beguelin: I thought I wanted to be, but then I realized I don't want all those problems. But it was just so funny because there were just a few people in every class that were just like that and just would talk forever and quote Shakespeare and Moliere. And it was just like, you're just leaning into the cliché, you know, you're just like, it's just, and so we're like, who can do that? And Casey, of course, had worked with Chris on Spamalot, um, where he had, you know, sort of those moments like that. Uh, so he was perfect for it. Chris receiver, brilliant. Uh, so he's rounding out our, our quad.

[21:06] Chad Beguelin: Now, surprising nobody, Eleanor exclamation point is completely panned and specifically in the big reviews, the leads, uh, Deedee and Barry are kind of called out personally. Like the only reason they would have ever done this is because they are obviously narcissists to the point of being like, uh, bad for the world. And so then they're publicist. And as they get to like talking about like, what are we going to do? Our careers are over. They realize, okay, well, let's instead of just changing lives through our art, let's enter the world of philanthropy. But that also means, and this is a brilliant piece of writing. They don't want to take on anything too overwhelming that we're not going to approach hunger.

We're not going to talk about homelessness. Like we need to do something that we can like fix over a weekend. And what they find is this poor, uh, young lesbian who has been shut out of her prom. Now, Emma, another terrific character, and I think has become a really important character for many people in the country. Can you talk about figuring out who she is was?

[22:20] Chad Beguelin: Yeah, we, uh, I mean, we wanted somebody who wanted to stand up to the injustice, but just didn't know how and didn't want to, you know, they try to get her to go on TV and they try to get her to do, you know, and that's not her. And so, you know, through this sort of friendship that blossoms between Barry and her, she, he sort of tells her, you know, you've got to look inside and, you know, you're smarter than all of us. Whatever you want to do is, is will be the right thing. And of course she ends up writing a song and putting it on the internet and that changes hearts and minds. And so we, we also wanted somebody that we wanted the character to not just have this dance as a problem. We wanted her to have had an issue with her parents.

She lives with her grandmother now. It's, you know, so she knows, we wanted her character to know exactly what Alyssa is afraid of because Alyssa is afraid to tell her mom because she knows what happened to Emma. And so, so, you know, it's, it's a lighthearted show, but those, those two characters are, you know, very real and very sort of trying to, to face these people who just have, you know, this un-based bigotry towards them.

[23:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Now the musical doesn't take place in Mississippi. It takes place in Indiana, which is not Illinois, but it's close. So talk to me about your growing up in the Midwest. Obviously you had a community theater that felt like a safe haven, which is, yes. I mean, how many of us is that story true? You know?

[24:03] Chad Beguelin: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's I grew up at a time where nobody was really out. Hardly anybody was out when I was in high school, but I got bullied like relentlessly, like daily, which was awful. But but also helped me to write that song, just breathe, because I know what it's like to walk to the hallways and have people yelling things at you. And that's what I did. I just totally disassociated and tried to think about something else or go somewhere else. I'm so sorry.

[24:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, well, it's, you know, it's, it's, yeah, it sucked, but it's, you know, it's one of those things where I think, well, you know, if I hadn't had that experience, maybe I wouldn't have been able to write that song. Fair enough. But, you know, growing up, you know, for me, it was very, uh, it was isolating. And that's why the community theater there was so important to me because I fit in and, uh, they miraculously let me write and direct my own musicals and plays there. And, you know,

[25:07] Chad Beguelin: Did you do a Pinocchio? Oh yeah. Is that for real? By the way, I'm referencing Showmance now. Yes. Those are the real horrible lyrics. They're not that bad. I gotta let you know. Even the like 14 year olds are like, really? We're doing this. You're going to make me say that. So yeah. So that was what sort of was by sort of, as you said, safe haven and, and the thing that saved me.

[25:54] Chad Beguelin: It seems like everybody usually knows that the kid is gay before the kid knows he's gay or she, and so the bullying is somehow even stranger. Or somebody said the other day, they're like the thing about, you know, a homophobic bully is that they're right. You are gay. Yes. Yeah, they guessed it. Gosh dang it. How did he know? I guessed it. So yeah, so, you know, and it's funny because just hopping back and forth, but like the idea of Luke character in Showmance came to me because I there was one kid that it was like started like junior high and went into the day I graduated just, you know, he's gonna beat me up in the parking lot. He's gonna wait for me after class. He's gonna just constantly and just like every homophobic slur you could ever think of.

And then years later, when Facebook started becoming a thing, I got a friend request from him. And you're like, excuse me? Is this guy insane? Is he like blocking out like our entire childhood? Right. And I ended up thinking, well, yeah, if he wants to look at my big gay life, sure. I accepted his friendship. And it's like, he either doesn't remember this at all. Or at one point, I thought I was gaslighting myself. I was like, maybe it didn't. Like, no, no, no, no, no. I talked to some of my friends. They're like, no, not that guy that happened. That really happened. But that's one of the things I wanted to sort of explore is that how we remember things that might not always be completely 20/20.

Yeah, I remember I look, nobody could have bullied me more than I bullied myself as a gay teenager. So like, good try boys. But at the same time, I'm from Utah. I'm from like a little farm town in northern Utah. And everybody's really nice there. So like the homophobia is different because at least people are nice. So the one thing that I remember is I was choreographing some girls in like the foyer of the high school, like out front of the office, like there's the, you know, the office where the principal, vice principal are. And like, sometimes you could be an assistant when you're a senior, like you could sign up for like, one of your classes was being an office assistant. And so there was a kid who was sitting there, which means that he was technically in class and right next to the vice principal.

So he must have like, you know, some sort of death wish. But he saw me choreographing the girls and wrote, am I supposed to say that word? And he wrote, he wrote, right, oops, he wrote, he wrote the F word on the piece of paper, and like held it up at the glass. And like, I didn't care at all. But those girls, oh, those girls were angry. And you better believe that he was punished because of it. And these are like the hot dancer girls, right in the school. So I was like, not a smart move, bro. Not a smart move. So I don't I'm happy to report that my growing up was, I didn't go through the stuff that Emma or even Noah did in your stories. But I still feel represented. And so thank you for that.

I'm going back to The Prom. The thing that kind of makes the story even stickier is that Emma, her girlfriend who's still in the closet named Alyssa, her mom is the one who's the kind of in charge of this PTA school board type governing body who is making all of these decisions. Talk about creating Mrs. Green because that is a complex character.

[30:06] Chad Beguelin: Well, we wanted to make sure that she wasn't just a villain. And you know, it's that old writing thing of, you know, villains think they're right. The wicked witch got her sister killed and her shoes stolen. So like, how's that fair? So I think we had to sort of get in the mindset that she was doing this because she loves her daughter and she loves her community and she loves the kids and she thinks it is something that can be influenced onto someone. And she just those are her beliefs. And she goes to church and she's very religious and she believes that this is what she's doing is right. And, you know, it really takes Alyssa coming out to her and it takes, you know, which happens very publicly.

And it takes very saying, look, you're going to lose your daughter. I know. Believe me, I've been there. So it takes all of that to get her to say, OK, let's let's talk. And that's all she says at the end. She doesn't say I'll accept you for who you are. Right. You found the love of your life. No, we wanted it to be realistic. But one of our producers had a friend that came out to her mother and the mother said, I just don't want you to have a hard life. And the daughter's response was it's already hard. And so we use that because we thought that was so, so perfect for that moment. How many mistakes do we make as parents? And I am only the parent of a dog currently. But how many mistakes do we make as parents that are based on I don't want my child to suffer pain?

Right. Exactly. You know, and guess what? Life is painful. Can't really escape it. But I think that that's so powerful. And OK, so now let's kind of get into this conversation, because what I think one of the lasting cultural footprints of The Prom when we are 25, 50 years away from this thing, I think it will be one of the true cultural representations of when it came out, which is we're right at the end of Trump's first administration. And polarization in our art, in our country is feels like at an all time high. And when I heard about a musical with this type of premise, I immediately and this is this is my bad, just FYI. I immediately thought, oh, is this going to be more virtue signaling to liberals about like, oh, look how great we are because we believe that two girls can kiss at a prom, you know.

And what I think we have actually in The Prom is two groups with essentially very different belief systems who are both acting because they think that they're right, not because they want to be bad, not because they want to inflict more pain, but because they honestly do believe that they're doing what's right. And in a way, you're like, oh, like, they're kind of the same. I just find that really interesting and empathic to see that like a character like Mrs. Green saying some things that are true, like Broadway people don't come into this town and assume that you know exactly what's going on here. You don't. Fact. Fact. You do not. And same thing with the Broadway people thinking that they are going to save the world and maybe having delusions of grandeur.

Yes, absolutely. So how do you see this polarization going? Not only, I guess, in our country, hopefully we're headed towards some change and some newness and some revitalized leadership, but also like in the art form and in musical theater. Is there a place for that white dude who is like, I didn't think I wanted these two girls to be together?

[34:46] Chad Beguelin: I don't know. I mean, it's every show is different. And, you know, for us, we just wanted to make sure that we weren't tipping the balance either way, you know, so that so that we had to make the Broadway people sort of terrible in their own funny way. And it's hilarious. I love it. I love the satire of it. And it also, you know, was really important to us that it didn't come off like an afterschool special. So we kept every time we have a moment that's touching, we immediately follow it with a joke so that it doesn't wallow at any point. So that was really important in just structuring it just to make sure that, you know, and we played with bringing tried one time was starting with just breathe and then going to Broadway. Oh, interesting. That didn't work at all because you got off on the total wrong foot. You had to start with the satire.

[35:40] Chad Beguelin: Yes. One thing also talking about openings, and this is why Showmance and The Prom opened the same way. Originally, I had written a couple chapters of Showmance. And then I thought, I don't know if I can do this. A lot of hard work writing a book. And, you know, in a musical, you write five good jokes. That's the first scene. And, you know, in a book, you write five good jokes. You're not even off the first page. So I sort of just put it away and thought, oh, I'll come back to that. And I was busy with The Prom. But we had a totally different opening number to The Prom. And really, yeah. So when we did our last workshop, we had a song called I Need a Drink. And it was it was all three of them.

Angie wasn't in it. She came in later doing horrible, horrible shows that they hated. And so they would do parts of the show and then they would sing this reprise about I hate my life, I need a drink. You know, they just hated the shows they were in. So Dede was in a musical version of Goonies, where she played Mama Fratelli. And we did a little excerpt. So it was like, that's why they call us the Goonies. And she's like, you kids are such loonies. You know, really terrible stuff. And then you see Barry and he's in a musical version of Forrest Gump. Oh, no. Life is like a box of chocolates. And then you see Trent and he's in a musical version of Long Day's Journey Into Night, which is just like really dark and bad.

And every single show ended with confetti cannons, including Journey. But people were just like, so confused and just like, what is going on? What is happening? And so I was like, we were brainstorming. I was like, well, I'm writing this book that I'll probably never finish. And he is this guy and he writes this musical and it opens and closes on the first night. And they're like, let's do that. Let's do that. Yeah. So I'm like, OK. And then when I went back and was reading through the book, I suddenly got, you know, like I suddenly could see the whole thing. And I was like, I'm going to hunker down and write this. And I had this big dilemma, like, do I change the opening of Showmance or do I just steal for myself and just, you know, accept that people are going to go like, huh, familiar.

[37:10] Chad Beguelin: Come on, you've got to have a hallmark.

[37:12] Chad Beguelin: Yes, of course. I'm a one trick pony.

[37:15] Chad Beguelin: No, no. But it's also true that for both Showmance and The Prom, that opening night feeling is horrified because you really, truly are going to get a review from The Times that could kill your show. And you have to keep, you know, doing the red carpet and taping interviews and oh, it's so what a magical night. But you're just dying to know what's going to happen. And I unfortunately, you know, had been through that. The Wedding Singer, opening night party, so exciting. Broadway debut. Oh, The Wall Street Journal loves it. Oh, this paper loves it. This paper loves it. All of a sudden, the whole vibe in the room changes and it gets really quiet. And I'm like, it's out. And Ben Brantley hated it. He used it as a diatribe about we've got to stop these movies to musicals that, you know, it's just, yeah, it was bad. Well, guess what, Ben? It's only gotten worse.

[38:18] Chad Beguelin: I know. So, you know, I knew I could sort of draw on that. And then it gets really quiet. And then people leave early. And then you're just like, are we going to run? But you guys did. How long did Wedding Singer run?

[38:29] Chad Beguelin: I think it ran around eight months, which was much longer than we thought. We thought they might just close it.

[38:34] Chad Beguelin: Pull the plug. Yeah.

[38:35] Chad Beguelin: Really?

[38:36] Chad Beguelin: And we were like, are we still going to be able to record a cast album? Like, it was just awful. So it's like both of those inciting incidents in Showmance and Prom. It's like, oh, that's it. That's how it is. It sucks. And, you know, you know, happily, I've had the opposite.

[39:22] Chad Beguelin: What am I going to do? Or celebrate, hopefully. With Aladdin, we had gone to a town in Toronto. We had gotten killed. I mean, they shredded everything. They hated everything. So, we had three months to completely revamp the show. I'm talking about cutting characters, rewriting songs, throwing stuff, moving things around. Everything, choreography, set, everything got a new look. And so, I walked into the opening night party, and I was assuming we were going to get killed. And I was just telling myself, you did everything you possibly could have. You put every last ounce of effort that you had. So, whatever. And then, all of a sudden, this huge roar comes up from the dance floor. And I look up, and Alan Menken's agent is running over to me.

And he's like, it's a hit. It's a hit. He's grabbing me by the shoulders. And I was like, oh, oh, oh. So, I've had both experiences with opening nights. But they are very, very high tension, especially if you're on the creative team.

[40:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's really intense. Okay, so then question about, and I hope I'm not getting too off subject, but how do you decide if a criticism from a critic is worth listening to? Or it's like, they ate something bad for dinner, and they're just in a bad mood?

[40:49] Chad Beguelin: Right. Well, the out of town critics are really, really important because you then can change things. And so, they have a point that you can change it before you get to Broadway. I know a lot of people that don't read opening night reviews on Broadway because there's nothing you can do. You can't do anything about it. Yeah, the show is frozen. So, yeah. So, it's sort of out of town, absolutely, if they've got a point. And I'm sure that's what helped us is that Toronto reviews were just like, bad. So, we had to fix it. But yeah, once you're open on Broadway, you're stuck. The show is what it is.

[41:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I never get to ask people these questions. So, thank you for just being open to this. How much of it is like sitting in a room and being like, all right, what aren't we thinking about? Or is it, actually, I had a feeling about this. This confirms it. Here are some ways to do it. How often are you just completely lost and don't know what to do?

[41:50] Chad Beguelin: Um, I mean, a lot of it is just trial and error.

[41:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really?

[41:56] Chad Beguelin: Yeah. I mean, you know, we...

[41:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's inspiring in a way, you know?

[42:00] Chad Beguelin: Yeah. I mean, it's just... You got to try something. I have, you know, that's my only thing that drives me insane is if you can't try something, especially in previews, because that's what we're here for. And I remember we were working on Wedding Singer, and Margot Lyon, who's no longer with us, but brilliant producer, the leading man had a joke that he wanted to do. And she was like, absolutely not. And it was something he had come up with. He was a comedian, Stephen Lynch. And I said, Margot, come on, you got to let him try it. What are we doing here for not trying things? She's like, no. And so it's like, finally, I got her to say, she's like, all right, listen, he can try three nights in a row.

And if he gets three consecutive laughs, it stays. If not, it's gone. And I don't want to hear anything else about it. And I'm like, okay, great. So we're in the back of the house. First night, he says it. Laugh. Great. Second night, he says it. Laugh. Great. Third night, says it. Huge laugh. And Margot turns to me and she goes, f**k you. But she stayed true to her word and stayed in the show. And she's like, gosh, dang it.

[43:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So she stormed out through the lobby. I was like, wow, okay. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. That might be funnier than the actual joke in the show.

[43:14] Chad Beguelin: Probably. That's amazing.

[43:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So back to The Prom, speaking of things that make me laugh out loud, can we go through a couple of these beats? There's this parent meeting when they're trying to figure out what to do about the prom and the principal, oh, God bless him. What a great character. He is actually kind of on the precipice of making a little progress, right? And in that moment, in that moment where there might be some hand-holding and bridge-building, here come the Broadway stars thinking they're going to save everything. And the great Dee Dee Allen. Who in Indiana cares about two Tony Awards, right? But here comes two-time Tony Award winner Dee Dee Allen and she sings the song called It Has Nothing to Do with Me.

[43:59] Chad Beguelin: It's not about me.

[44:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's not about me. My favorite line in the whole song is, How could you ever silence a woman who's known for her belt?

[44:11] Chad Beguelin: Right. Yes. If nothing else, you have to be incredibly proud that you wrote a song with that lyric in it.

[44:18] Chad Beguelin: It's funny because the earlier version of that song, we were in, I think it was when we were just in Atlanta, we were starting out in Atlanta, and it wasn't, the lyrics were different. And I was like, why is it not getting laughs? And I went up to Beth one day and I was like, why do you think it's not getting laughs? And she's like, I think it's a little too mean. And I had her calling them white trash and I had her just like, you know, ripping them apart. And I was like, oh, okay, so that's not going to work. So I was like, okay, so it has to be obviously all about her, but it has to be her also being completely apathetic. She doesn't have time to Google what LGBTQ is. She read three quarters of a news story.

She's not going to read the whole thing. So I realized it had to be more making fun of her than her trying to attack them. So that was a major shift for that song, because before it was just sort of like she was just calling these poor people awful, terrible things. And they're just like, ah!

[45:21] Chad Beguelin: At one point, it used to be a duet and it was called This Poor Girl. So it was Barry and Beth, Barry and Dee Dee. And one of my lyrics, which I regret had to go because it didn't make any sense anymore, was Barry had a lyric that went, you can't scare a gay man who's seen Liza naked backstage. Which is mean, but I mourned when they cut him out of the song.

[45:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, so the cool thing for Dee Dee, though, is that despite running into all of these pitfalls in the form of her own ego, the principal is actually a big fan. And he loves musical theater and he loves Broadway and he's straight, which just makes her laugh so hard because she had no idea those types of people existed. But they have this sweet moment at a local restaurant that she had never been to before called Applebee's. And there's this great moment in the song where he's talking about what theater means to him. And he says it's an escape, right? That theater is an escape for him. And she almost reacts defensively. She says, oh, so what I do is just a distraction. And he says, no, a distraction is momentary and escape is giving time for healing. Talk about open in my heart. That is such a beautiful sentiment. And it happens very quickly. Like it isn't on a Fermat or anything. It just goes right by. I loved that so much. Thoughts?

[46:52] Chad Beguelin: Well, that was Bob Martin. It's frightening to realize he actually has a heart somewhere under all that. But no, it was sort of interesting because we have Dee Dee kind of questioning if it's even worth it anymore. Her career and she's getting older, not old, but you know, and so, you know, to have someone say, God, what you do heals my soul, you know, is just one of the things that helps to like bring her guard down. And, you know, it's in the original, when we went, when we were in Atlanta, it was the principal is a totally different character, totally different actor. It was Marty Moran. And the joke was that everybody thought he was gay, but he was really straight. But then we realized it was a sort of like, you know, one joke and like, it just doesn't feel real.

And so we ended up going a complete different way. And he used to have a song called Gay For You, which he sang to Dee Dee. So it was just like a totally different, it was very, you know, trying to be funny song. And, you know, we were like, this moment needs to be deeper. Like if we're going to like really invest in this relationship between the two of them, we have to really rethink this guy and rethink the song completely. It's a beautiful relationship. And if you can't tell already, it becomes the motivator for change for Dee Dee, right? He reflects back to her, what she needs to be doing in her life.

[48:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Let's talk about the kids and kind of the high school of it all. Because there are a lot of Carrie references in the musical, which I'm obsessed with, of course. One of the problems that Carrie had, though, and I think still does to a certain extent, is trying to figure out how to have the Carrie storyline with her mother, which is very dark and almost operatic. And then this like, Bye Bye Birdie feel of, we're gonna have the best time at the prom, and trying to make that into one score. So what was kind of your idea with Matt in terms of creating this world for these kids? What does that sound like? What does that feel like?

[49:19] Chad Beguelin: Well, yeah, we always talked about the show as having two scores. And one was the musical theater score for the theater people, and one was a pop score for the kids. So that was sort of how we approached it. And the funny thing that happened from Atlanta to New York was that Casey said, you know, when we were done with the Atlanta run, he said, I feel like it's musical theater people coming to a musical theater town. And we need to make this town real. So we sort of went and used my hometown as a model. And you know, because everything that the principal says about the town is true of my hometown, you know, all the factories have closed. The only place to really get a job is the prison, which is, you know, awful.

And, you know, people are scared. People, when they're scared, they have to find a scapegoat, they have to find something to focus on. So we made the town a lot more real and sort of not dark, but just realer. And I think that made the score, especially the things that the kids sang, seem more real and not Bye Bye Birdie esque. One of the first songs we wrote was You Happened. And originally, it was just the two girls, and they were in the band closet, and they sang a whole song to each other. And nothing happened. So you're just like, we already know you two like each other. So what are we doing here? So, so our producers kept talking about promposals are really big, they're really big. We kept going, yeah, we're not doing that.

And then we finally went, oh, we're totally doing that. So, you know, we wrote verses for the two straight couples to lead us in. So you see them out in the hallway, in public, sharing their love, and then you see the two girls hidden away, you know, having to do their proposal very quietly, but promising that they're gonna come out and making that decision by the end of the song, so that now the song has a journey and has a purpose, and we're not in the same place we were when we started. So it was really a lesson in that song, particularly, you know, is that, you know, you can't just do a love song. It's gotta, especially if we already know they're in love. It was a real lesson, I think, for us as writers, because we went, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got to be somewhere else at the end of the song.

[51:48] Chad Beguelin: So, I think that the thing that I love about "The Prom" is that it really is a celebration of the power of community and acceptance. And I think that the characters in the show, they all have their own journeys, and they all come together in this really beautiful way.

[52:18] Chad Beguelin: You know, Dee Dee Allen, for example, she starts off as someone who is very self-involved and focused on her own career, but through the course of the show, she learns to care about others and to be part of something bigger than herself.

[52:48] Chad Beguelin: And I think that’s a really important message, especially in today’s world where we can often feel isolated or disconnected from each other.

[53:02] Chad Beguelin: The musical also touches on themes of love and acceptance, and I think that resonates with audiences on a deep level. It’s about being true to yourself and finding your place in the world.

[53:10] Chad Beguelin: The humor in the show is also a big part of its charm. We wanted to create a story that was not only heartfelt but also funny and entertaining.

[53:13] Chad Beguelin: I think that balance is what makes "The Prom" so special.

[53:17] Chad Beguelin: And the songs! The songs are such a vital part of the storytelling. They help to express the emotions of the characters in a way that dialogue alone cannot.

[53:27] Chad Beguelin: I remember when we were writing "The Prom," we wanted each song to feel like a moment of catharsis for the characters, a way for them to express what they were feeling in a way that was both relatable and uplifting.

[53:37] Chad Beguelin: It was a collaborative process, and I loved working with my co-writer, Matthew Sklar, to bring these characters to life through music.

[53:45] Chad Beguelin: One of the inspirations for the show came from my own experiences growing up. I think a lot of people can relate to the feeling of wanting to belong and to be accepted for who they are.

[53:55] Chad Beguelin: And that’s really at the heart of "The Prom." It’s about finding your tribe and celebrating who you are, no matter what.

[54:05] Chad Beguelin: I also think it’s important to highlight the role of the adults in the story. They have their own arcs and growth, which adds depth to the narrative.

[54:15] Chad Beguelin: For example, the character of Barry is a great representation of someone who has faced adversity but still chooses to be a positive force in the world.

[54:25] Chad Beguelin: His journey is about embracing his identity and using his voice to advocate for others, which is such an important message.

[54:35] Chad Beguelin: The show really encourages everyone to be their authentic selves and to support one another in that journey.

[54:45] Chad Beguelin: I think that’s what makes "The Prom" resonate with so many people, regardless of their background or experiences.

[54:55] Chad Beguelin: And the fact that it’s a musical allows us to explore these themes in a way that feels joyful and celebratory.

[55:05] Chad Beguelin: I love that we can tackle serious topics while still making people laugh and feel good.

[55:15] Chad Beguelin: It’s a delicate balance, but I think we achieved it with "The Prom."

[55:25] Chad Beguelin: And the audience response has been incredible. People have shared their own stories of acceptance and love, and it’s been so rewarding to see how the show has impacted lives.

[55:35] Chad Beguelin: I think that’s the power of theatre—it can bring people together and create a sense of community.

[55:45] Chad Beguelin: And that’s what we set out to do with "The Prom." We wanted to create a space where everyone feels welcome and celebrated.

[55:55] Chad Beguelin: It’s been an amazing journey, and I’m so grateful to have been a part of it.

[56:05] Chad Beguelin: I also want to mention the importance of representation in the show. We made a conscious effort to include diverse voices and perspectives in the storytelling.

[56:25] Chad Beguelin: It’s crucial that everyone sees themselves reflected on stage, and I think "The Prom" does a great job of that.

[56:35] Chad Beguelin: We wanted to create a show that feels relevant and relatable to today’s audiences, and I think we succeeded.

[56:45] Chad Beguelin: The feedback we’ve received has been overwhelmingly positive, and it’s clear that the message of love and acceptance is resonating with people.

[57:05] Chad Beguelin: I’m proud of the work we’ve done, and I hope that "The Prom" continues to inspire and uplift audiences for years to come.

[57:15] Chad Beguelin: It’s a testament to the power of storytelling and the impact that musicals can have on our lives.

[57:25] Chad Beguelin: And I’m excited to see where the show goes next, whether it’s on tour or in schools or community theatres.

[57:35] Chad Beguelin: I think the story is universal, and it’s one that needs to be told.

[57:45] Chad Beguelin: So, I encourage everyone to come see "The Prom" and experience the joy and heart that it brings.

[57:55] Chad Beguelin: It’s a celebration of life, love, and the importance of being true to yourself.

[58:05] Chad Beguelin: And I think that’s a message that everyone can get behind.

[58:15] Chad Beguelin: Thank you for having me on the podcast to share my thoughts about "The Prom." It’s been a pleasure!

[58:25] Chad Beguelin: I hope everyone enjoys the show and finds something in it that resonates with them.

[58:35] Chad Beguelin: And remember, always be yourself and embrace who you are!

[58:45] Chad Beguelin: That’s the true spirit of "The Prom."

[58:55] Chad Beguelin: Thank you again for the opportunity to discuss this incredible musical.

[59:05] Chad Beguelin: I’m looking forward to seeing how it continues to touch hearts and inspire change.

[59:15] Chad Beguelin: Let’s keep the conversation going about acceptance and love in our communities.

[59:25] Chad Beguelin: It’s so important, now more than ever.

[59:35] Chad Beguelin: And I’m grateful to be a part of that conversation through "The Prom."

[59:45] Chad Beguelin: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you at the theatre!

[59:55] Chad Beguelin: Let’s keep celebrating the power of musical theatre together.

[1:00:05] Chad Beguelin: It’s truly a magical art form that brings people together.

[1:00:15] Chad Beguelin: And I’m honored to be a part of it.

[1:00:25] Chad Beguelin: Thank you, everyone, for your support and for being part of this journey.

[1:00:35] Chad Beguelin: I can’t wait to see what the future holds for "The Prom" and for all of us in the theatre community.

[1:00:45] Chad Beguelin: Let’s keep dreaming big and making art that matters.

[1:00:55] Chad Beguelin: Thank you!

[1:01:05] Chad Beguelin: I appreciate the chance to share my thoughts and experiences.

[1:01:15] Chad Beguelin: It’s been a wonderful conversation, and I hope it inspires others to pursue their passions.

[1:01:25] Chad Beguelin: Let’s continue to uplift each other and create a world where everyone feels accepted.

[1:01:35] Chad Beguelin: That’s the beauty of musical theatre—it has the power to change lives.

[1:01:45] Chad Beguelin: Thank you for being part of this important dialogue.

[1:01:55] Chad Beguelin: I’m excited to see how "The Prom" continues to evolve and inspire.

[1:02:05] Chad Beguelin: Let’s keep the momentum going and spread the message of love and acceptance far and wide.

[1:02:15] Chad Beguelin: Thank you again for having me on the podcast!

[1:02:25] Chad Beguelin: It’s been a joy to share my insights and experiences with you.

[1:02:35] Chad Beguelin: I hope everyone has a fantastic day and continues to support the arts.

[1:02:45] Chad Beguelin: Together, we can make a difference.

[1:03:15] Chad Beguelin: Thank you!

[1:03:35] Chad Beguelin: I’m looking forward to what’s next for "The Prom" and for all of us in the theatre world.

[1:03:55] Chad Beguelin: Let’s keep creating and celebrating the magic of musical theatre.

[1:04:05] Chad Beguelin: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you at the theatre soon!

[1:04:15] Chad Beguelin: Let’s keep the spirit of "The Prom" alive!

[1:04:27] Chad Beguelin: Thank you!

[1:04:39] Chad Beguelin: It’s been a pleasure!

[1:04:41] Chad Beguelin: Thank you!

[1:04:43] Chad Beguelin: Thank you!