This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Brendon Stimson: Brendan, we have a great one today.

[0:04] Jack Sippel: Oh my god, I'm so excited for this. Eliza Ohman.

[0:08] Brendon Stimson: Eliza Ohman?

[0:10] Jack Sippel: My best friend.

[0:11] Brendon Stimson: Gets me so excited.

[0:12] Jack Sippel: Well, I mean, okay, so self-proclaimed best friend by Jack. I mean, demanded best friend, really.

[0:19] Brendon Stimson: Well, but then agreed on.

[0:22] Jack Sippel: Sure, definitely.

[0:25] Brendon Stimson: By contract.

[0:26] Jack Sippel: Eliza Ohman's with us, and we dive in to a lot about King Kong, Hamilton, her journey, where she came from, how she got to New York City in the first place.

[0:39] Brendon Stimson: And I, something I love about Eliza is that she's just so carefree and a human first, and brings her best self into just this world of dance in this world of theater that we do.

[0:53] Jack Sippel: And she mentions it for a moment in there, just how she, you know, goes to school to do something completely different, and then comes back, and she found herself in the dance world again.

[1:02] Brendon Stimson: And just how that has incorporated such a, I think, deeper love and respect for what we do, because she has that other side that she leads with.

[1:12] Jack Sippel: Yeah, I find her to be like a professional yes-ander, right? I think there's such a thing as like, she just dives in, does it, figures out because there's no other choice.

[1:21] Brendon Stimson: There's no other choice, like just in the moment, create and hope it works, and like, make another vision happen if she's not, like, she has no control besides doing the best she can.

[1:31] Jack Sippel: So she works with, you know, Andy Blankenbuehler a lot, Hamilton, Elsie Verdin, amazing.

[1:38] Brendon Stimson: Well, what do you think? Should we just start this again from the top?

[1:41] Jack Sippel: Again from the top, let's do it.

[1:42] Brendon Stimson: Boom.

[1:51] Jack Sippel: Eliza Omen.

[2:02] Eliza Ohman: Oh man, it's Eliza.

[2:05] Eliza Ohman: In the house.

[2:07] Eliza Ohman: Hello, I'm here.

[2:08] Jack Sippel: Hello.

[2:10] Eliza Ohman: I just want to have a little disclaimer for Brendan, because he doesn't really, you're welcome, he doesn't really know our meeting, how we first met.

[2:18] Eliza Ohman: And I just want to let him know, because this could give him a better mindset on how this podcast could go today.

[2:24] Jack Sippel: So, okay, okay, I'm ready.

[2:26] Eliza Ohman: Eliza and I met doing the 100-Year Muni Gala.

[2:31] Eliza Ohman: And we were in rehearsal in New York City.

[2:35] Eliza Ohman: We had like three days of rehearsal, but she was also doing, you were doing, you were in Hamilton at the time.

[2:41] Eliza Ohman: Correct.

[2:41] Jack Sippel: And you were like, I'm busy. I can't be at rehearsal.

[2:44] Eliza Ohman: But I'll learn it, it's fine.

[2:45] Jack Sippel: No, no, no. I was at rehearsal, it's just I often had to leave early, because I was like, okay, I have a matinee. Thank you so much.

[2:52] Eliza Ohman: Totally.

[2:53] Jack Sippel: So we have our rehearsals. So we don't really get to know each other there, right? Because it's so fast. She's leaving half the time.

[2:59] Eliza Ohman: And then we get to St. Louis.

[3:01] Jack Sippel: She was.

[3:02] Eliza Ohman: Shady.

[3:03] Jack Sippel: No, you're busy.

[3:04] Eliza Ohman: You're booked, okay? You have a job to do.

[3:07] Jack Sippel: 60 tracks to learn.

[3:08] Eliza Ohman: Yeah.

[3:09] Jack Sippel: So we get to St. Louis.

[3:12] Jack Sippel: And it must have been day one of this rehearsal, because we had a few days of rehearsal.

[3:17] Jack Sippel: Then we do the gala. And then we kind of leave, right?

[3:19] Eliza Ohman: So it was day one.

[3:22] Eliza Ohman: And it was on a break from rehearsal.

[3:24] Eliza Ohman: And if you know the media, the giant outdoor platforms where you put the shows together.

[3:28] Eliza Ohman: So we were rehearsing on the West platform.

[3:30] Eliza Ohman: And I remember we were passing each other, I think, on the ramp.

[3:34] Eliza Ohman: One of us was going to get a drink of water or something.

[3:37] Eliza Ohman: The other one was coming back to the platform.

[3:39] Eliza Ohman: And we just kind of stopped.

[3:40] Eliza Ohman: And I looked at her.

[3:41] Eliza Ohman: I said, we're going to be best friends.

[3:44] Eliza Ohman: And then we just walked away from it.

[3:45] Jack Sippel: No other context.

[3:47] Eliza Ohman: No other context. You just knew.

[3:49] Jack Sippel: And she was like, yeah.

[3:49] Eliza Ohman: And just we both kept walking our separate directions.

[3:52] Eliza Ohman: And then it was like inseparable the entire time we were there.

[3:57] Jack Sippel: Oh my god.

[3:57] Eliza Ohman: Hands down.

[4:01] Jack Sippel: That's just to let you know where this segment could go.

[4:04] Eliza Ohman: What a soothsayer you were, just to know that.

[4:08] Jack Sippel: He manifested it.

[4:10] Eliza Ohman: I remember it more as like, I think we're going to be best friends.

[4:14] Eliza Ohman: It was both an affirmative statement and also a like, this is what I would like from this.

[4:19] Jack Sippel: Yes.

[4:22] Eliza Ohman: And if anyone knows Eliza, you know I'm not wrong.

[4:26] Eliza Ohman: Like, hello.

[4:28] Jack Sippel: But let's be real.

[4:31] Eliza Ohman: But she's dying.

[4:34] Jack Sippel: Let's get into it.

[4:34] Jack Sippel: I love this.

[4:35] Jack Sippel: So Eliza, welcome to the podcast again from the top.

[4:40] Jack Sippel: Let's start again from the top with Eliza.

[4:42] Jack Sippel: Yeah, where did your dance journey path all start?

[4:47] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, what is your origin story to get into this crazy business?

[4:51] Eliza Ohman: My origin story? How fancy.

[4:53] Eliza Ohman: It's like we're going on an adventure ride.

[4:55] Eliza Ohman: This is our big Marvel question.

[4:57] Eliza Ohman: Yes, this is Wonder Woman, the prequel.

[5:02] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, I grew up in Parker, Colorado, which is like an hour southeast of Denver.

[5:07] Eliza Ohman: And my sister is eight years older than me and she danced.

[5:11] Eliza Ohman: And obviously, I was like, I must do everything she does.

[5:14] Eliza Ohman: However, I will disclaimer that because she'll like take credit.

[5:18] Eliza Ohman: But I just do want to say also, I was obsessed with dancing from the get.

[5:21] Eliza Ohman: And anytime there was music playing, I would just start dancing to it, like in the style of music, like my brother was into reggae.

[5:29] Eliza Ohman: And I would like close my eyes and like, just like move my arms and like vibe to it.

[5:33] Eliza Ohman: And like, I just loved all types of music.

[5:37] Eliza Ohman: And I always wanted to like dance to it.

[5:39] Eliza Ohman: And I rented Singing in the Rain on VHS from the library.

[5:44] Eliza Ohman: Like VHS? What is that even?

[5:46] Jack Sippel: We'll have to do a disclaimer for those who don't know what VHS tape is.

[5:49] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, Asterix, Define Turnbuckle.

[5:54] Eliza Ohman: So my mom and I would just like renew it because no one else was renting it.

[5:58] Eliza Ohman: And they finally just like gave us the copy.

[6:00] Eliza Ohman: And I would just like watch these because, you know, it's Parker, Colorado.

[6:05] Eliza Ohman: No one's watching Singing in the Rain.

[6:06] Jack Sippel: That's such a Bell moment.

[6:07] Eliza Ohman: Like, but you've seen it twice.

[6:10] Eliza Ohman: You like it all much that it's yours.

[6:14] Eliza Ohman: Nice little small town library situation.

[6:18] Eliza Ohman: I just like always gravitated toward dance.

[6:21] Eliza Ohman: And it was whether it was Ced Charisse, or like Third Girl from the Left, or Donald O'Connor, like it didn't matter.

[6:26] Eliza Ohman: I just like loved dancing.

[6:28] Eliza Ohman: And I would like teach myself the dances from the old RKO films, old MGM films.

[6:33] Eliza Ohman: And then I was dancing from the time I was three on.

[6:36] Eliza Ohman: And I was always like a bit of a know-it-all as a kid in dance class, which, you know, shocker.

[6:40] Eliza Ohman: We had Captain in the Making.

[6:45] Eliza Ohman: Shocker.

[6:46] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, she really, Queen Without a Kingdom really had to learn her boundaries of like, it's not your turn yet.

[6:50] Eliza Ohman: It's not your turn.

[6:53] Eliza Ohman: Also, no one cares.

[6:56] Eliza Ohman: No one asks.

[6:57] Eliza Ohman: No one cares.

[6:59] Eliza Ohman: No one wants to know.

[7:03] Eliza Ohman: So anyway, I would be in these dance recitals, like just coming alive on stage.

[7:08] Eliza Ohman: I felt most at home on stage.

[7:10] Eliza Ohman: I loved performing.

[7:12] Eliza Ohman: And really, from the time I started at three years old, I just danced all the way through high school until I was dancing like 40 hours a week, fifth grade on and going to summer intensives.

[7:24] Eliza Ohman: And then weird turn of events, I went to college and like took time off from dancing and went to school and got like a regular degree.

[7:32] Eliza Ohman: And like figured out who I was apart from dance, which I'm a big advocate of.

[7:36] Eliza Ohman: In an industry that's constantly trying to define you, there's great value, I think, in knowing who you are apart from it.

[7:43] Eliza Ohman: And that this thing doesn't, it's not all defining.

[7:46] Eliza Ohman: It doesn't provide your value, so on and so forth.

[7:49] Eliza Ohman: And that was a journey.

[7:50] Eliza Ohman: But then I really wanted to get back into dancing.

[7:52] Eliza Ohman: And I felt really good about it.

[7:53] Eliza Ohman: And it was like coming back into my life.

[7:55] Eliza Ohman: So I started up again my last semester of college.

[7:57] Eliza Ohman: I did the professional semester training program at Broadway Dance Center.

[8:02] Eliza Ohman: And it transferred into my college as like, I think, nine or 12 practicum credits.

[8:07] Eliza Ohman: And I was still enrolled in school.

[8:09] Eliza Ohman: And I was working.

[8:10] Eliza Ohman: And I got signed with an agency through that.

[8:12] Eliza Ohman: And then it was just all of a sudden, I was dancing again.

[8:15] Eliza Ohman: And now I've literally not stopped since then.

[8:18] Brendon Stimson: Yeah. Now, when you were growing up, what kind of dance were you involved?

[8:21] Brendon Stimson: Was it just at a studio taking your, you know, quote, unquote, regular ballet tap jazz classes?

[8:27] Brendon Stimson: Or were you a competitive dancer going to all those conventions every other weekend?

[8:31] Brendon Stimson: What kind of path was that?

[8:33] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, my studio is very much a recreational studio that has advanced dancers.

[8:40] Eliza Ohman: But my class of, or maybe two classes before me, was the first group of students coming up in the studio that were interested in possibly studying dance in school.

[8:51] Eliza Ohman: Or not just studying dance in school, but actually pursuing dance full time professionally.

[8:56] Eliza Ohman: So we were the first group that started competing.

[8:59] Eliza Ohman: And it was sort of because we had an interest.

[9:01] Eliza Ohman: And we just wanted to learn.

[9:02] Eliza Ohman: And we didn't go to very many competitions, maybe three or four a year.

[9:06] Eliza Ohman: But we would go to mostly competitions that had conventions attached.

[9:10] Eliza Ohman: Just because my studio owner was really focused on arts education.

[9:14] Eliza Ohman: And just making sure that you're not just performing for the sake of getting an adjudication.

[9:21] Eliza Ohman: And like some medal that doesn't mean anything.

[9:23] Eliza Ohman: But also really learning from people in the industry.

[9:26] Brendon Stimson: It could mean everything.

[9:29] Eliza Ohman: I mean, they can be really exciting.

[9:30] Eliza Ohman: My mom was, we were just, I was just home like a month ago, teaching.

[9:35] Eliza Ohman: And my mom was like, what should we do with all these old trophies?

[9:38] Eliza Ohman: And I was like, oh, get them to the studio.

[9:39] Eliza Ohman: I don't want, like, why would we keep them?

[9:41] Eliza Ohman: And she goes, well, there's one that I think we should keep.

[9:44] Eliza Ohman: And I was like, what?

[9:46] Eliza Ohman: And I had gotten some special award the first time I did a solo.

[9:50] Eliza Ohman: And it said it's Broadway bound.

[9:53] Eliza Ohman: And my mom was like, we have to keep that.

[9:57] Brendon Stimson: I mean, if you are a vibrant performer with a lot of energy on stage.

[10:03] Jack Sippel: I feel like every child has gotten some Broadway bound special award.

[10:08] Eliza Ohman: Oh my god.

[10:10] Brendon Stimson: For those, including myself, I know literally zilch about the kind of the competition world.

[10:16] Brendon Stimson: I was kind of like a late bloomer into this whole dance thing.

[10:19] Brendon Stimson: So tell me the difference.

[10:20] Brendon Stimson: And for other listeners who may not know, when you say convention, is it literally just there's kind of like masterclasses attached to the competition you can take?

[10:30] Eliza Ohman: So the first convention we went to was New York City Dance Alliance, which Joe Lanteri runs.

[10:37] Eliza Ohman: That's a competition and a convention.

[10:38] Eliza Ohman: So the convention is like, what, a 10 hour day where you might take, as the classes could be anywhere between 45 minutes to 90 minutes, depending on what the schedule is.

[10:49] Eliza Ohman: And they're just cycling through every teacher possible.

[10:52] Eliza Ohman: So depending who their faculty is.

[10:54] Eliza Ohman: So the first time I met Andy Blankenbuehler was actually at New York City Dance Alliance at Nationals.

[11:00] Eliza Ohman: I was teaching.

[11:01] Eliza Ohman: It was when he was choreographing The Wiz at City Center.

[11:05] Eliza Ohman: And Ricky Tripp was there assisting him.

[11:07] Eliza Ohman: And Joey Dowling was there because they were working together.

[11:11] Eliza Ohman: They just finished in the Heights.

[11:13] Eliza Ohman: And so she was also part of that class, but then also teaching her own.

[11:17] Eliza Ohman: So you're just basically cycling through teachers.

[11:19] Eliza Ohman: And you'll have class all day Saturday with competition Saturday night, and then usually class all day Sunday.

[11:25] Eliza Ohman: And then many of those competition conventions will also have a scholarship portion where you learn a particular combo.

[11:31] Eliza Ohman: Usually Joe is the one who choreographs it at Dance Alliance.

[11:36] Eliza Ohman: And you audition it.

[11:38] Eliza Ohman: You wear your number all weekend.

[11:40] Eliza Ohman: And then at the end, the people that are auditioning have their audition class.

[11:44] Eliza Ohman: And the other faculty members come and watch.

[11:47] Eliza Ohman: And they score you.

[11:48] Eliza Ohman: And then at the culmination of the weekend, you find out, like, did you get a half scholarship?

[11:54] Eliza Ohman: Did you get a full scholarship?

[11:55] Eliza Ohman: Are you going to Nationals?

[11:56] Eliza Ohman: It's like a whole thing.

[11:58] Brendon Stimson: It's a whole thing.

[11:59] Eliza Ohman: Yeah.

[12:01] Eliza Ohman: It's called Outstanding Dancer.

[12:04] Jack Sippel: Oh, that you are.

[12:06] Eliza Ohman: That you're riveted by this.

[12:09] Jack Sippel: It feels so much like every single convention sounds like a chorus line moment of just like, oh my god, just the number, everything.

[12:15] Eliza Ohman: Well, you're in a hotel ballroom.

[12:16] Eliza Ohman: So you're also on carpet.

[12:18] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, or you're on the parquet.

[12:20] Eliza Ohman: You always know who is who in the room.

[12:22] Eliza Ohman: Because some people are like, they like the parquet ballroom floor.

[12:26] Eliza Ohman: And they want to dance on that.

[12:28] Eliza Ohman: Then there was me.

[12:28] Eliza Ohman: I was like, I want the carpet.

[12:30] Eliza Ohman: I want to be in the back of the room where no one else is.

[12:33] Eliza Ohman: I'll see you there.

[12:34] Eliza Ohman: I have all the space.

[12:35] Eliza Ohman: And I can see everything.

[12:36] Eliza Ohman: Also, it's less stressful energy.

[12:38] Eliza Ohman: I don't like to be in the front of the room in an audition.

[12:40] Eliza Ohman: I don't like to be in the front of the room in class.

[12:42] Eliza Ohman: I like to do my own thing.

[12:44] Eliza Ohman: And easy turns on a carpet, let's be real.

[12:46] Eliza Ohman: Easy turns.

[12:47] Eliza Ohman: And you're wearing, this is like in the 2000s.

[12:49] Eliza Ohman: So everyone was wearing socks, often on one foot, or like mismatching socks, but one for each.

[12:56] Eliza Ohman: Often an inside out, like sweatpants situation, or pockets pulled out as well.

[13:02] Eliza Ohman: It was a very confusing time.

[13:03] Jack Sippel: It makes me really uncomfortable to think about.

[13:06] Eliza Ohman: Wearing a one sock thing, I will never understand.

[13:10] Jack Sippel: And it's also like up to the knee, isn't it?

[13:12] Eliza Ohman: It was a long sock, if I'm not mistaken.

[13:14] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, knee-high sock thing, we had a moment.

[13:17] Eliza Ohman: I called them snocks, but they are in fact called socks.

[13:20] Eliza Ohman: Snocks.

[13:21] Jack Sippel: Snocks.

[13:22] Eliza Ohman: But let's circle back to Andy Blankenbuehler, like you just mentioned.

[13:26] Eliza Ohman: That's where you first were meeting him.

[13:30] Eliza Ohman: So you were at Broadway Dance Center for your, that summer intensive.

[13:35] Eliza Ohman: Professional summer, yeah.

[13:38] Jack Sippel: Yes.

[13:39] Jack Sippel: So then where's that connection from when you left that, to then you staying in New York, and becoming a Broadway performer?

[13:47] Eliza Ohman: What is that transition?

[13:49] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, so the semester, it was my final semester of college.

[13:53] Eliza Ohman: I started the program at BDC in January of 2013. At the time, Andy was still teaching at BDC semi-regularly, about once or twice a week for like a two or three month period. We reconnected through that class, and I came and took his class, which I was very scared to take because it was registered as an advanced class and it was two hours. I was like, can I still take advanced classes? I haven't danced in three and a half years. Am I terrible now? What's allowed? The program directors were like, um, I think you should definitely go to that class. That's a really weird choice that you're making to not. So I started going to the four to six slot theater class. It was of another era. BDC prime time, right?

Studio A. It was when it was downstairs. Large column. Not large column. That column is unbearable. If you've never been to Broadway Dance Center in Studio A, I can't wait for these people to experience it because boy, is it lovely. Anyway, okay. So I'm at BDC, I'm taking Andy's class, and we had a really good rapport during class. Afterwards, we ran into each other on the street, and he said, do you have your resume with you? I was like, yeah, I do randomly because I just had a session that morning where we had to bring our resumes in and talk about how to make it. So anyway, I gave him my resume, and he was like, okay, great. We'll be in touch. That was it. I took his class a few more times, and then he wasn't teaching at BDC, and I was still doing the program.

We didn't reconnect until I got called back in for Hamilton in the spring of 2016. It was like three years, and I never heard from him, nor did I expect to. Why would I? At the time, I was non-equity, so I couldn't get into an ECC for Hamilton. I tried to go in for it at the public. I tried to go in for it at Broadway, and my agents weren't able to get me an appointment. One day, I randomly got an appointment when they were looking for an immediate replacement. I called my agents and said, I'm so down to go to this audition. I love free class, but also, are you sure? Is this really my show? I'll go for sure. They were like, no casting asked for you, so you should go. I said, okay. So then I showed up, and Steph Clemens and Morgan Marcel were teaching the combo that day.

We did Yorktown. Andy showed up in the middle of the session, and a bunch of us had to come back in and dance just for him. The whole group of us danced for him, and then I went through the Andy Blankenbuehler audition process, which is basically like a full production rehearsal day with many callbacks on many occasions.

[16:57] Jack Sippel: That's incredible. I mean, from the resume on the street outside BDC to cut to Hamilton. That was crazy insanity. Some things happened in between that, that I think probably, but honestly not much.

[17:12] Eliza Ohman: How do you get yourself into a place of coming from Colorado to then adapting to the style of Hamilton? Because obviously it's a contemporary hip hop feel, right? But what skills did you find that led you to fit that mold?

[17:31] Eliza Ohman: What's really interesting about my training for my studio in Colorado is that it really is focused on the art of dance and educating from a very foundational standpoint. In that way, even though there are certain tricks and things that I never learned, and I'm now at an age where I'm not even interested in trying to learn, we're no longer in that phase of life. It really did help establish a desire to dance in a way that's really motivated by intention and story and artistry. I found that as far as my aesthetic was concerned, what I was drawn towards always sort of lived in a similar capacity. When you work professionally, there are just certain choreographers where you can adapt to their style, and then other choreographers where you're just instantly on their wavelength.

For whatever reason, Andy's musicality has always made perfect sense to me. He understands music and talks about seeing music. I really feel like I feel music like he sees it in color. He talks about that a lot, but the way he describes it is almost the same way that I understand it. It just comes through a different sensory system. His material is really rooted with intention first, and then the physicality follows. I think it always just made sense to me. Because I was the type of dancer at my studio, and now I have scoliosis, I'm not super flexible. I was never a trick-oriented dancer. I was always a sponge. I was really interested in latching on to whatever people were saying and doing my best to absorb all of that and really be a chameleon.

I put not necessarily my stamp on it, but I was true to who I am as a mover and honored what they were asking of me. In that sense, I think that was sort of the adaptive skill I learned growing up from working with all these different people. I felt like, well, I can't necessarily do what everyone else can do, so I just need to be really smart and really pay attention and really listen. Maybe I'll absorb something else. I think style comes really naturally to me. Some styles in general, I can sort of take my way through something until I find it. The material for Hamilton just always made sense to me. It clicked really naturally, whether we were learning my shot or room where it happens or Yorktown. It just felt right on my body.

[20:16] Jack Sippel: What I think is so incredible is that the way you describe your approach with Andy and your approach to any kind of dancing, it sounds as if you create a character kind of instantly before you get into the movement. I can hear you say, you know, maybe I can't do this trick like this certain person, but I'm going to bring myself into the movement. I think there's something so powerful about that because I'm the same way. I want to know what the motivation is behind the movement. I want to know from an acting standpoint, why is this happening? Why can't I just walk over here this way? Why does it have to be this way? When you unpack that, it elevates the performance level. I think that's just such a nail to hit on the head.

You mentioned being able to adapt, and I think that comes from your training, growing up training in so many different styles and seeing so many different ways of doing a process or being at conventions. You have all of that in your head. You understand how your body moves, so you don't even have to think about half of the challenges. A lot of the performers coming up are scared of. When they get into an audition, they always ask, what are the things I can do better to pick up choreography and this and that? For you, having such an incredible background and training, that is like second nature. You can come in and just easily adapt to the material instead of, okay, now I'm in tap shoes and I got to or whatever style it is. I think that's incredible.

[22:02] Eliza Ohman: I think it's also really valuable. This is at least what I observe in audition spaces. There's a fear to try because you don't want to try until you feel like you can do it correctly or perfectly. I am definitely a personality type that I'm always down to try, and I'll royally mess it up if that's part of the journey to getting it right. I don't feel shame or embarrassment about that. I'm really good at laughing at myself. I just think that's an essential part of learning. Sometimes when people feel out of their comfort zone, the default is to hold your breath and not try because you're trying to use your brain to think through everything, which is valuable. You do have to take a moment to breathe and think before going crazy.

But if you hold your breath and don't activate the space or create an opportunity for you to do it full out and find out why it's not working, that can also be really difficult in spaces where you're doing things that are uncomfortable for you.

[22:56] Jack Sippel: While we're on the topic of Andy, I want to touch this before we go today for sure. Let's talk about Fosse Verdon because your clip in Fosse Verdon is out of this world.

[23:10] Eliza Ohman: Thank you. All 20 seconds.

[23:13] Jack Sippel: But they're brilliant. Captivating 20 seconds.

[23:16] Eliza Ohman: Oh, thank you so much. That was without question one of the coolest things I've ever done. I just don't even know where to begin on that. One, how to lock into that period, just like peace. I feel like the legends I've heard of that time and of that era in actuality are just iconic. Nostalgic isn't the right word, but it's just this perfect piece of time in Broadway history that I think was captured so perfectly in this whole series. I talk about the vibe on set and within everybody of the creative team. How did they create that aura, I guess is the right word for that time?

[24:05] Eliza Ohman: The vibe on set was exceptional for our scene. The whole team was there for, I don't know, we had a long shoot day, like 10 or 12 hours. We got it from so many different angles, but there were, I think, 100 extras in full period costume, in full period hair to create the vibe of, it was called the Slapsie Maxie number because that was the club where Jack Cole's company performed. They did such a good job of researching. The number we performed was a number that they knew Gwen Verdon actually saw. Obviously, the choreography was Andy's version of that number, but it was a number where they performed to Sing Sing Sing. It was four men and one woman at this nightclub with a live band. There was that full tiered stage behind us with the musicians, and the colors were so vibrant.

The costuming department made that dress magically because we had rehearsal on a Wednesday, I had a fitting on a Thursday, and then I think I had one more follow-up fitting on like a Monday or Tuesday, and then we shot Wednesday. They had an insane turnaround to make this immaculately hand-dyed, hand-beaded dress. Even the shoes were hand-dip dyed. They couldn't decide if they wanted it to be red to green or green to red because of the style of the dress. They did one of each and put them on. When they saw it in the dress, they were like, are we crazy? Or are we just going to keep it like one is red to green and purple to green and one is green to purple? That's what they did. Those also had hand beading done on them.

They were not dance shoes; they were actual heels as you see in real films, which I have a newfound respect for because for one, I thought my feet were going to fall off by the end of the day. Two, I'm so spoiled now because I'm dancing in custom shoes for everything. Those shoes I take with me from a show, and then that's what I take class in. I was like, oh my gosh, this is an entirely new experience. They had us dancing in those shoes. You feel like you're part of that time period because of the ambience they created. There was so much fog and smoke.

[26:38] Jack Sippel: Yeah, it was next level for sure.

[26:42] Eliza Ohman: It's hysterical because then you watch it, and you're like, no wonder they kept saying more smoke, please. You don't really see that much, but it felt like a lot. The guy that did my hair was exceptional. He used to be Sid Charisse's personal hairstylist when she was doing her Broadway show. He would come and set her pin curls so that at the end of the night, she could take her hair out, and it would look exactly the way she wanted it to. He was telling me all these stories. When I found out I booked the number, I didn't know what kind of piece it was going to be. I just knew it was called Slapsie Maxie and nightclub number. I think it's a Jack Cole piece. I didn't want the Slapsie Maxie. I was Googling.

I was like, I know what that is. Google doesn't know either. Okay, it's not a step. It's not perfect. It's not a reference to something that I don't know about, like, although it was, but not in the way I was expecting. I showed up to rehearsal, and it was just me and Andy, and we were catching up.

[27:46] Eliza Ohman: And his assistants are there, Mary Ann Lamb, who was predominantly Michelle or Sam's movement coach. I can't remember. Probably some of both. But it's the two or the three of us in the studio together. And then like some of the boys start showing up. And then it's like five minutes before I'm like, I feel like more people should be here. Like what's going on? And then Andy just always starts talking as though everyone knows all the information that he does. And you don't know any of the information that he does. So all of a sudden, I get pulled to the side. And Mary's talking to me while Andy's setting the boys. And she's like, okay, so that you are Gwen Verdon's inspiration. Like, you are the reason that she decides to dance.

And she's going to like, see herself in you. And we want this solo to really, I mean, it should feel like a Sid Cherise type of dance, but we want it to feel like you. So let's figure out what the movement is. And let it feel like, like you are Sid Cherise. And I thought, I will never be given this prompt again in my life. This is literally what dreams are made of. Every like three-year-old Eliza, googly eyes watching Sing in the Rain is freaking out right now.

[29:01] Eliza Ohman: So then what happened? What is your mindset then? So you get that prompt, right of like, here's the number, here's what we want you to do. What kind of goes through your head in the sense of a performance quality added to what's going to happen? I think it puts my head into the shapes and the energetic quality that I've been absorbing for, I don't know, how old am I now? The last 26 years. Now you all know I'm 29. It just goes into that space. You know, it's like, it's all going to be inverted. It's going to lead with the pelvis, it's going to have a really seductive, sultry, laid back, but uber confident, like eyes never falter type of energy. Where almost to the point of, I didn't make a mistake, you just saw it incorrectly.

It's that kind of performance energy. And then at the same time, also like, oh, my better be on my leg. Like my core better be engaged, my knee better be over my toes, my rotators better be activated because there's no slipping and sliding when you're, that's the prompt. That's incredible detail to be thinking about. Wow. But instantly like to get that prompt and also to like, again, think, I mean, literally all that specificity of, I mean, you're talking about the character, you're talking about the acting going into it, and then sliding in like the technique, kind of like not as an afterthought, but certainly as like, the technique is informed by your storyline and the whole through line that you're doing.

And I think that's just the perfect way to approach. As you're learning it, you're implementing that right away. Because A, you have time later. Trying to implement that. I wouldn't be able to talk about it at rehearsal. No, but it's on the forefront, like, it's not an afterthought. So when they say, okay, well, it's time to film it, you're not then, okay, so I remember, like, I have to know my eyes don't come, all of that isn't then all of a sudden clicking in, you have it from the get-go.

[31:01] Eliza Ohman: When it was so helpful, like on set, so that number was the last number that Andy choreographed. He had actually just flown back from London because he was doing cast and he was like in town for the Kennedy Center Honors, casual. So he set our number, but he had to go back to London. And so Susan Meisner, Susie was like taking over at that point too. Yeah, she's the best. I love her. But some people are very formal when they first say her name and they're like, Susan Meisner. I'm like, who are you talking about? Anyway, she's literally everything I want to be when I grow up. She is so cool and she's so fabulous and she is a lady boss in life and on set and she's just extraordinary. So I didn't meet her until we got on set and Brandon Bieber was assisting.

He was in our rehearsal, but he was working mostly with the boys. And then all of a sudden he was on set helping us. And so Susie had been looking at our rehearsal footage, but then we're in space and so we're sort of reworking it. And she was so great of just giving really specific directed notes of like, this is a wide shot. So this is what I need you to focus on here. This is all about eyes. This shot is from up above. So if you weren't on your leg, this is the shot to be on your leg. Specifics like that of really just nailing it down and having that type of information. And same to like the director that day was so wonderful working with us and really clear. And we were like creating a dance with the steadicam as they're moving and rotating around us. It was just, I think it all comes down to communication.

[32:30] Eliza Ohman: That was Jack and I's favorite portion of when we're capturing something for a dance, when we're working on prom, it's we love the steadicam kind of thing because it felt like you were literally like in the action and then you then have to choreograph how are we going to keep the whole segment, but also get the steadicam guy in there around all the dancers. And so our favorite is, I know it's a visual aid, but as they kind of like are bringing the camera through and having dancers kind of come around, it was just such like a new dance that we had to like learn and adapt because there's talk about the turnaround in like TV world is incredibly fast. So to be able to adapt quick and just jump in and say, yes, sure we can do that and done.

How did that kind of apply like learning that skill? How does that then apply boom segue when we're getting into like becoming an associate, becoming a dance captain and doing all this stuff for like when we do like King Kong and things like that, when things are changing so much, especially in like preview process. So it's like a little like on that kind of subject of just like the diving and say like, this needs to change, let's just do this now and just like boom in.

[33:38] Eliza Ohman: Yeah, I think I actually learned that skill at Radio City because it's such a fast-paced environment and it's so hyper professional and Linda Haberman was the director of my first season and she's a Bob Fosse dancer and was a dance captain for Bob Fosse and an associate for him setting tours. So she is so of that old school mentality and there's such an expectation of always professional, always on, never stop, we make an adjustment, you remember it immediately. If we have to go back, you will be publicly shamed for that. It's a very unhealthy like fear motivated space but it also you work really hard and it teaches you a lot about work ethic and a lot about pacing and like I've never been in a space that's more time is money than Radio City.

So that was my first professional job. I had never, except for like two commercial gigs and like random TV stuff, that was my first show experience right out of college and I was one of, I think there were three or four of us that were brand new, had never done a show anywhere of any production of Radio City and we were all in New York together and it's just fast and furious and you think you're gonna get fired every day, every moment. And I just thought I have been terrible, I'm bad at everything and I'm generally like a fairly quick person and I've never felt dumber but I learned a lot in that space and I was like okay. What a way to start, what a way to like just start it out with that. Yeah it was a lot but it was also extraordinary and Radio City is such a special venue and it's an iconic show and there's so much history there so that sort of adaptability is, it's not even asked of you, it's just demanded and expected of you and there is no other option.

And so then when I worked elsewhere I was sort of stunned that it wasn't like that and that there was like a lot more generosity in the space but also in a way like a lot more laziness because people are really casual and like oh I don't need to do a full out, I'll do a full out when it's the end of the day and I also, that's like my biggest pet peeve, like if you're in a mark it's called a Clark because you're so cleanly doing it and like your core is still engaged and your arms are still out. I love a Clark, smart Clark. Always a Clark, there's literally never a mark, it's never helpful. At that point close your eyes and listen to the music and find the musicality. Don't create a t-rex on stage, no one wants that.

[36:07] Eliza Ohman: I want to see a t-rex. I mean I do want a t-rex on stage, it's my dream to wear those like t-rex inflatable and just dance. I am the target demographic for those and they make me cackle. I mean where is that in the next Radio City Christmas Spectacular really? Just get rid of like the bears and put in, I mean the bears already tried to do that when we did Bear Day the first time. I was like sobbing laughing in my costume. I was like this is the funniest thing I have ever seen. We worked so hard, 800 people auditioned for this show and were like deemed not worthy to wear a bear costume and do grand plies or to be like a polar bear and like jumping up stage making x shapes and like giggling with their shoulders and like we're getting really serious notes about like how big your shimmies are or like the angle that you're shaking your wrist. I mean it's hysterical. All that to say t-rex suit is my dream, no t-rex arms, cleanly mark, adapt.

[37:13] Eliza Ohman: So just to retrograde that for us because I brought us on quite a journey and now I just like we love a tangent journey. So go back to King Kong for me. So obviously we said just a few changes in that rehearsal process leading to Broadway but that choreography was so fascinating to me because it was I don't want to say oddly diverse for that show but like I felt like there was so much happening the sense of you had that almost like a show girly type you know backstage dancer realm and then you have the moment when you're on that ship and it's almost like a contemporary ballet feel. Like talk to us about the creation of you know the diverse styles in that one show and what that was like to create because you guys had an extensive rehearsal period leading up to the rehearsal period.

[38:08] Eliza Ohman: Yeah we did. There was a lot of rehearsing. Drew McConey was the director choreographer on that show and he comes from like a concert dance world and so he really comes from a space and training of how do we let movement propel the story forward and it can be he had just worked with Baz Luhrmann like on Strictly Ballroom for a couple of years and Baz had given him really interesting advice which was saying like as long as you know the rules of your universe you can create anything and anything can be true but you just have to know what the rules of the universe are and if you know those so in and out then you'll know the moment you're telling a lie and that something that you've done or a decision you've made no longer aids the story or isn't true for the world you've created and so Drew wanted to create a show that really centered around movement like a non-verbal form of communication because King Kong this 2000 pound puppet that people were manipulating all over the stage is a main character and is a non-verbal character like everything that he does is communicated through movement and that's where his relationship with Anne really exists and so he wanted to sort of create a space where the audience subconsciously is just used to seeing movement and using movement as a form of sort of overarching story that doesn't have to be like a paint by numbers situation but can create the energy of a city so for instance that scene you're talking about with the men on the ship you know we have an LED a curved LED which I think for a cinematic show really served the purpose that was intended and it just translated so well in that space so when you have the stage start to lift for as the ship is like leaving the docks and you watch the risers come up and then you watch New York City like leaving the harbor and going into the ocean and you see these men swaying you're now creating sort of an energy of storytelling where the men are bringing to life the energy or the feeling and sensation of leaving something that you love that you are passionate about but going on this place where you know you're most at home and like the swells of that movement and the swells and the music were sort of to sort of to invoke that idea and that energy whereas when we're in the New York City scenes there's really like a grit and an aggression to the material it's very it's circular but in there's sort of a hardness to the circularity there's it's a little bit more angular and it has like a pace that really never stops and there's a lot of partnering where the women were really being manipulated by the men which was an idea of like Ann Darrow is this woman in the 1920s 1930s who is being taken advantage of by the system and this is how people see women this is what they expect from women so if we're gonna make her story and her energy look different then we have to show these other women who don't necessarily have that voice and are being thrown around and then even when they're dancing on their own are still sort of dancing in that capacity versus like a showgirl scene where it is traditional and all of a sudden we are really pulled up so the movement had like a lot of different layers and a lot of different energetic qualities that were intended for a specific purpose and you know whether or not that was always.

[46:21] Eliza Ohman: Um a great learning experience. I had just come from a show that was like, you know a fine-tuned machine and we've set for national companies one way or the other plus an international company. It's like we knew the best way to do everything. And Radio City, although ever adjusting, is a show that's been around for a hundred years almost. So like this was my first time building something from the ground up and it really can be anything you want it to be. And which is exciting but also limitless opportunity can also feel paralyzing. And so everyone responds to that in different ways and you just have to say, okay, what's next? What's it today? Yesterday was yesterday. What do we do now? And I think the phrase that I heard at the beginning of the entire story is still ringing and ringing and ringing in me is the uh when you understand the universe that you're kind of creating and you know all the rules, then there's no way you can kind of like get it wrong.

So when you say like there's this huge kind of canvas you can paint anything on it, right? But even that feeling kind of like oh my god overwhelming which road do I take, you know? But if you create that universe, it's almost like well it doesn't matter what I do first because as long as I'm in the rules and I'm not lying and so by getting that story out. I think that's such a perfect way to kind of like do I think there's a fun way to do like two truths and a lie in like pre-pro. I'm just like all right here's like three options now find the lie that's like doesn't help the story even if it's like the most fun step, you know? But I think it's just and and the ability to kind of zoom out is kind of the way I think of it when you're talking to somebody if you're a dance captain that position and you like just like hear their problem, but like help them to kind of zoom out and see the whole picture and realize.

Oh, right. Okay. Cool. Cool. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And also that your any note you're giving someone is to make them the best version of themselves on stage and so that the show is really great but also so that they're really great and I think I've I had never closed a show before and so our closing night was actually the most exhilarating show because for the first time you see everyone on stage dancing and performing in a way that is true to the story but also really generous with every single person on stage and it's not for the audience and it's not to prove anything to anyone. It's really to celebrate the experience and just take it in and you think wow when it's like this it's so good.

And you just wish like how do you how do we find that and always maintain that? That's you know the difference what we're talking about with like film it's really easy because it's like you just have to get it for the one shot and everyone's inherently narcissistic so they're like I must be in the shot. So they're giving it their all but then for Broadway, you're like, okay I have to get the same thing from you eight times a week and you're tired and it's the sixth show and you didn't sleep well last like there's just so many things and so it's just an interesting journey but I love that idea of like the pre-pro process of find the find the lie and getting everyone in that space together of like understanding the universe.

That's so good. Eliza's like watch it. She's like watching the closing night of King Kong just like polishing up everyone's like Broadway bound trophies for when she can give them all out afterwards be like you made it you made numbers I'm like I'm done with my quick change really polished polish. You are a Broadway bound. Oh my gosh.

[49:45] Eliza Ohman: Um, so Eliza one thing we ask everyone, um as we depart the podcast with them is we call this our shoulda shot it moment. So this is a moment we had in Los Angeles when we were filming the prom movie and Meryl Streep was filming the song not about me. She does this incredible number all the way through lighting sound everything backgrounds there everything. It ends in a blackout and she yells should have shot it in the middle of this blackout and it was just it was a rehearsal because she was just showing an idea, but it was incredible. So we have a segment called shoulda shot it and shoulda shot it. Yeah. And we want to know what's a moment in your life career anything that you wish could have and should have been captured forever.

I mean, there are so could have been like incredible in rehearsal or yeah, that's what I'm saying I'm like that idea which is brilliant that Meryl said it it's like there are many times where I've been on set and they just secretly are filming this is a rehearsal but they're filming because you just never know what's going to happen and what you'll catch then and I think that's a brilliant tool and people should always do that. Not that you should always but you really should always like if you have access you should always be shooting. Um I think for me actually I know exactly what it is. Um when we were doing our very first um preview of Six, so it's like the first night we have the audience that's been waiting to be in that room for months.

They're so electric. We have a bunch of Broadway debuts on stage. I'm sitting next to the choreographer in the front row of the mezz. This will be her choreographic Broadway debut. Um, it's just a huge moment for this the show is like, you know the little engine that could like it just never was meant to be the sensation that it has become and yet it always was meant to be that because it wasn't meant to be that, you know. Um so we had this moment in the final number of the show where the lights pop up. There's a riff that the girls are doing that build the song just gets really explosive the girls charge forward and then the lights shine. It feels like you're at a concert and they're like pumping their hands out.

But the whole audience you could feel the pulse rise in the entire space of you know 1300 people and they start doing the thing that the choreographer hopes which is like the girls are waving their arms and the audience is supposed to join in that moment just like a concert and you feel that whole space like because of the way they did the lighting the girls energy as they're charging forward it starts and we just watched you know 13 1400 people raise their arms up and start doing it with them and it was like so magical I've just never had a live theater experience that I can really put into words and that uh in the same way, I don't think anything has really ever compared to it. And again with just the most humble team behind that production um and a show that centers around like joy and positivity and it's just should I shot it because no one know and feel what that is and then after the number it was like explosive applause like the girls couldn't come in for their final thing because it the applause break lasted for like two minutes and I'm sure just like you said with that lighting how it was it's even more incredible because you can really see everyone next to you.

It's not just like all the stage lights are on stage and you can kind of get that glow. It's like no the lights are on you and you can look around and it's yeah it's a super bowl moment where the lights are the entire stadium like it was.

[53:36] Jack Sippel: That's incredible.

[53:38] Brendon Stimson: Jinx drinks.

[53:40] Jack Sippel: Got him. Well, we have to have her back on to talk about Six when you guys are up and running again, absolutely. Absolutely. And then also we got to talk a little bit about Carly Rae Jepsen next time you're here, too. We got to flash it back to that to leave the people with something we'll come back to that for sure. Uh, well Eliza, thank you so much for being here with us. You are the best.

[54:03] Eliza Ohman: Of course.

[54:06] Jack Sippel: Every email and text I would say hey best friend and then I go text from there just really making sure that it's just like just a reminder. I am your best friend.

[54:15] Brendon Stimson: Okay now on to the business jack saved his himself in my phone as Jack Sippel and then where it says company it says best friend best friend. Wow, and he chose the photo. How much are you paying him if best friend is a company?

[54:30] Jack Sippel: With love and affection, of course, of course, of course.

[54:36] Eliza Ohman: It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for starting again at the top with us.

[54:40] Brendon Stimson: All right, happy to be here. Thanks for having me you guys.

[54:44] Brendon Stimson: Hey.

[54:51] Jack Sippel: Hey, it's Brendon.

[54:55] Brendon Stimson: Hey, it's Jack. Thanks so much for tuning into our podcast. Be sure to hop on over to our Instagram at again underscore podcast and give us a follow a like a comment a DM because we want to hear from you. Let us know how we're doing.

[55:01] Jack Sippel: Sure. Sure.

[55:07] Brendon Stimson: And before you press next to play your next podcast, hopefully it's us again, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and give us a rating if you love what you're hearing. Again from the top is produced by Dory Berenstein and Alan Seales. Stay tuned for our next five six seven eight.