This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Brendon Stimson: Let's go get it. Curtis Holland. Curtis! If you want to talk to somebody with an aura of inspiration, an aura of confidence, and just...

[0:12] Jack Sippel: Groundedness.

[0:14] Brendon Stimson: Grounded. That is the word. And not in a bad way, when you're a kid and you're just like, ugh, I'm grounded. Curtis walks into a room and be like, that's what it means to be grounded. I'm sure that everyone listening, when I said the word grounded, was thinking, when I was grounded in my childhood. Well, now they're not. It's a little point.

[0:34] Jack Sippel: Luckily, it's not the bed grounded.

[0:39] Brendon Stimson: But I want to talk. And when we get into this with this interview, which is, I mean, thought provoking and just, yeah, we talk about Curtis's kind of like importance of community and his kind of upbringing into this whole crazy dance world, and how he's, I want to say transcended into a new version of storytelling, which we get into. But it's, when you hear about some of the conceptions that Curtis has had in his mind, and how he comes up with them, it's just, the dude is a step ahead of the game. That's what I'll say.

[1:13] Jack Sippel: I love this. Yeah, Curtis is one of those people who were, when you have a conversation with him, you just kind of like stop and just sit back. And just kind of like, you don't want to stop him. And you just like, just keep, just let him keep going. Oh, I am leaning forward. I am not sitting back. I'm just like, oh, tell me more. But I'm saying leaning back, because I don't want to stop him. I'm not going to try to interject. Just keep talking to me, Curtis. It's all good.

[1:39] Brendon Stimson: It's so good. It's so good. And I can never get enough. We both worked with him. And he is one of the greatest humans ever. Always there for a laugh and a bit, of course. And always full out. And always good work ethic. Always full out. And the storytelling, you're right. I mean, when we were talking with him, another clip that came to mind was just him in Shuffle Along. And I know I'm going to post about it for everybody, his Tony Ward performance of there. But I mean, storytelling and just performance and going for it. He mentions in his interview with us, just the taking that leap forward and why not go for it. And he is a true example of that. But to that, I want to say we want to hear from you guys, our listeners here.

We have our social media, Instagram, Twitter. Our handle is at again underscore podcast. Write into us, ask us questions, things you want to know. We're here for suggestions, too. Yeah, but we want to hear from you. So write at us at again underscore podcast. Let us know. Get involved. You can get your questions in, get your questions answered and be part of the conversation. I love that. So I think we should hear from Curtis, the man of the hour. From the top, a five, six, seven, eight.

[3:16] Curtis Holland: Hello. Oh, my God. What a treat. What an absolute delight. I don't think I'm ready for this one today. No, absolutely not. I don't think there's no world. There's no world. There's no world to be fully prepared for what Curtis Holland is going to share with the world.

[3:34] Brendon Stimson: And that's the best part. Honestly, it's the same inside my body, too.

[3:40] Jack Sippel: There was a world. So for those listening, great start. I met Curtis Holland here at the acclaimed New York City Center, an encores production of the New Yorkers, it was called, yes?

[3:56] Curtis Holland: Yes, correct.

[3:57] Jack Sippel: And we had known that we were going to work together in a little tiny show called Mean Girls after that, but we hadn't really conversed together yet. We hadn't got to know each other. And in a tech process, you go a little bit loony. And in city centers, a quicker tech process, but in those shows, you're kind of backstage for a long, periodically time. And Curtis and I, we're in these, we're in these like prison uniforms for this like old sing, sing, jail scene. And we have so much time backstage and they are doing, you got that thing, that certain thing. It is like four or five minutes song because they just go verse, verse, verse, verse, verse in the old time tunes. And we would take turns just full improv, full dance improv. Curtis is using the entire like costume racks behind us. We're directing traffic at one point backstage. And it was the full, I knew then right there. Curtis Holland is the ultimate yes. And he's the full on, you say, go, I am already gone.

[5:09] Curtis Holland: Gone. Yes. Yeah. And it gets me in trouble sometimes, but many times it's also good.

[5:18] Brendon Stimson: So what we love to start on this show, we really want to know, okay, so how, how did this happen? How did this occur? What got you into this insane business? And what got you started in the whole dance world?

[5:30] Curtis Holland: Oh, my father owned a dance studio long before I was born. And so when I popped out of my mother, I kind of popped up onto the dance floor and started listening to music, Earth, Wind & Fire, Des Re, Alicia Keys, and doing plies. So demi. Kind of, kind of. But truthfully, my dad has owned, he owned a dance studio for 25, 26 something years called the Edwin Holland School of Dance. It is the, excuse me, that is, that's my cousin outside. So my dad, my dad owned a dance studio called the Edwin Holland School of Dance for about 26 years. And it is the same studio that he inherited from his old dance teacher. And at that old dance studio is where he and my mom used to take dance classes. And then when my parents went away for college, my dad came back and he started teaching me how to dance.

And so I was like, parents went away for college. My dad came back first. He's a few years older. He came back first and inherited the studio. And he was prepping for a recital one year. My mom came by to say hello, just to see how everything was going. He asked her how, and then they started dating and they had three babies.

[7:06] Jack Sippel: Oh, my God. Romantic destiny through dance.

[7:06] Curtis Holland: Romantic destiny through dance. And so my parents were my dance teachers for the next 18 years of my life. Taught me ballet, tap, jazz. We brought in people for hip hop. We had some acro classes, but I never got past a cartwheel. I can kind of do an aerial, but not really. That's not important. That's somebody else doing that.

[7:37] Curtis Holland: And then I went off this whole time. I was also in school. I went to a middle school for musical theater called Norland Middle School. Also the place where a lot of the kid stars from the movie Moonlight came out of.

[8:01] Jack Sippel: Oh, my God. Easter egg. Thank you.

[8:05] Curtis Holland: Yeah. No sweat. No sweat. No, no, no, no. It's all you. It's all you. It's all my drama teacher. Her name is Tanisha Seidel, and she was actually in the movie as well. She played the principal. So it was this kind of whole full circle thing. It was about Miami, and then it was kind of about my middle school, where I kind of got my start in musical theater. And there, our drama teacher really showed us accountability. And I also think that accountability was something that was very present in my life from an early age just because of my dad's dance studio. And then also because of my drama class, and if you didn't come in with your monologue ready, you had to have a really good reason why. And then you had to just be ready to be reamed out.

So it was a lot of that. But I did that until eighth grade. Then I went to a performing arts high school called Michael Kropp Senior High School. And this whole time, I was still aware that I had to go to college for something, quote unquote, practical. And I understand why. I've seen many cases where people need fallback plans. And like we're seeing now, people need fallback plans. So my fallback plan at first was going to be, and this is such personal information, it was going to be for physical therapy. And I was excited because I was going to have this teacher in high school, I think for 11th grade, the anatomy and physiology teacher who was supposed to be so phenomenal. And when we got her, she was also then running the senior activities for the year.

So we didn't really have class. We would come in and just hang out, not get anything done. One of our assignments was to write down a list of songs that we wanted to hear for prom. So my dreams to be a physical therapist were very much shattered. I remember sitting in the car with my mom one day, and she was like, you know, you have to start thinking about school. So I said, yeah, I know. She goes, well, what do you want to do? I said, well, I thought it was physical therapy, but I don't know anything. And then we both remembered that because my dad's dance studio has a recital every year, I would sometimes edit the music for it. And, you know, every teacher is responsible for cutting their own music and getting it together.

And I became pretty good at it, and I started editing music for other teachers. I started editing music for some things at my high school, some productions that we did. So she said, well, you know, there are places where you can go for sound design or you can go to edit music for a living. So I looked it up a little bit more, and I decided that I wanted to be a Foley artist doing sound effects for movies. Of course. Wow.

[11:01] Curtis Holland: So that was what I...

[11:09] Jack Sippel: So does that mean, like, you're creating the explosion for when a car happens?

[11:09] Curtis Holland: Yes. Oh, man. And, well, that's what I thought, but that's also the very old school way of it happening, whereas now many people just have the sounds already implemented. I don't know how many people are actually crumbing up paper bags anymore to make sounds, you know?

[11:23] Jack Sippel: The original ASMR people.

[11:37] Curtis Holland: Truthfully. The originals right there. The originals. Yeah. Take notes, people. But so I started, you know, working towards that, and I went to school. I went to Middle Tennessee State University for their audio production program, and it was under their communications umbrella, so I was having a lot of... What's the word I'm looking for? Pre-reqs that I, you know, just really didn't care about, but I found ways to keep myself entertained at school. One of those ways to keep myself entertained was this program called MPAC, and I can't remember what it stood for, but it was their little dance company where anyone in the school, no matter what your background, you could just come and dance, and it was mostly hip-hop and a little bit of contemporary if you were really feeling your oats, but for the most part, you just got to dance, and it was all student choreography, and we would have an end-of-the-year or end-of-the-semester showcase that was actually packed.

One of my friends in there, her name is Paige Freelix, who I am so proud of because she's now out in LA doing wonderful things, but she had auditioned for So You Think You Can Dance already two times and said, hey, Curtis, auditions are happening in Nashville, which was four hours away from me, and she said, I'm going. I think you should come with me. Is that something that interests you? And she said, I had auditioned before, but I just go for the experience, already telling you how much of a good egg she is, but I said, I mean, yeah, sure, so then I was in the studio practicing.

[13:22] Curtis Holland: Welcome to the show! I'm so excited to be here and share my journey with you all.

[13:52] Curtis Holland: You know, the art of subtlety in dance is something that I’ve really been exploring lately. It’s all about telling a story without being overly dramatic.

[14:22] Curtis Holland: In my solo show, "Inside the Maze," I really focus on how movement can convey emotions and narratives in a nuanced way. It’s about finding that balance.

[14:52] Curtis Holland: I think sometimes we forget that less can be more. It’s not always about the big, flashy moves; sometimes it’s the small details that really resonate with the audience.

[15:22] Curtis Holland: I remember when I was on "So You Think You Can Dance," I had to learn how to express complex feelings through simple gestures. That experience really shaped my approach to dance.

[15:52] Curtis Holland: And in "Shuffle Along," I had the chance to work with some incredible artists who taught me the importance of subtlety in performance. It’s a skill that takes time to develop.

[16:22] Curtis Holland: I think the key is to be present in the moment and really connect with the audience. When you do that, the subtlety becomes powerful.

[17:22] Jai Meng: That’s such an interesting perspective, Curtis. How do you find inspiration for your performances?

[17:28] Curtis Holland: Inspiration can come from anywhere! Sometimes it’s a conversation I have, or a piece of art I see. Other times, it’s just a feeling I want to express.

[17:42] Jai Meng: Do you have a specific process for creating your choreography?

[18:02] Curtis Holland: Absolutely! I usually start with a concept or theme and then let the movement flow from there. I like to experiment and see what feels right.

[18:22] Jai Meng: That sounds so organic. How do you incorporate feedback into your work?

[18:42] Curtis Holland: Feedback is crucial. I often share my work with trusted friends and mentors who can provide honest critiques. It helps me refine my vision.

[19:02] Jai Meng: And what about the audience? How do you gauge their reactions?

[19:22] Curtis Holland: I pay attention to their energy. If they’re engaged and responsive, I know I’m on the right track. It’s all about creating that connection.

[19:42] Jai Meng: That’s a great approach. What do you hope audiences take away from "Inside the Maze"?

[20:02] Curtis Holland: I want them to feel something—whether it’s joy, sadness, or inspiration. My goal is to spark a conversation and make them reflect on their own experiences.

[20:22] Jai Meng: That’s beautiful. It sounds like you’re really passionate about your craft.

[20:42] Curtis Holland: I truly am! Dance has the power to heal and connect people, and I’m grateful to be a part of that.

[21:02] Jai Meng: What’s next for you after this show?

[21:22] Curtis Holland: I’m looking to explore more collaborative projects and maybe even dive into some teaching. I love sharing what I’ve learned with others.

[21:42] Jai Meng: That’s exciting! I can’t wait to see what you do next.

[22:02] Curtis Holland: Thank you! I appreciate your support. It means a lot to me.

[22:22] Jai Meng: Of course! It’s been a pleasure having you on the show today.

[22:42] Curtis Holland: Thank you for having me! I’ve had a great time sharing my journey with you.

[23:02] Jai Meng: And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed this episode!

[23:22] Curtis Holland: Don’t forget to check out "Inside the Maze" and keep dancing!

[23:42] Jai Meng: Until next time, keep moving and expressing yourselves!

[24:02] Curtis Holland: Yes, and remember to embrace the subtlety in your art.

[24:22] Jai Meng: Absolutely! See you all soon!

[24:42] Curtis Holland: Bye!

[25:02] Jai Meng: Bye!

[25:22] Curtis Holland: Take care!

[25:42] Jai Meng: You too!

[26:02] Curtis Holland: Bye!

[26:22] Jai Meng: Bye!

[26:45] Curtis Holland: I look at her and go, Amber, you know I want to do something like this. She goes, Curtis, I know. Start now. And I go, what? She goes, yeah, start now. I'm giving you six months. In six months, I want you to have a show. And then I made her. That's a very good friend. I made her even record it in my phone. I said, Amber, say what she just said to me right now. And she said, hey, this is Amber. I'm letting you know that in six months, Curtis is going to have a show, a solo show. He played it on stage. Played it on stage. Specifically, at the mic. It was hysterical. Yeah. But even in there, she said, you're going to be great. This is going to be wonderful. Just start. And so that was on December 12th.

And my solo show was on June 24th. So almost six months to the date. And my concept, oh my gosh, here we go. So the concept at first, I'm thinking, okay, I'm just going to do a solo show. Let's get some songs that I like to hear. I had seen a few solo shows in the past. I said, all right, I like this song. I like this song. I will sing a voice teacher feeling good. I'm going to want to do some dances. All right, great. So by March, maybe I want to have a little snippet set up so that people can see what they would be getting into. I want to invite some people to come. I want to do all these things. And in the meantime, I also was starting to reach out to some people who I care about asking, what should I do?

And how do I go about making a solo show? I started reaching out to some of my friends. And one of my friends is Marshall Davis Jr., the protege of Steve Kondos. And he is not only a phenomenal tap dancer, but also a phenomenal thinker. And I just enjoy the way that he challenges me to think about things. And he goes, be ready to keep moving when people say no. And he said, things may not go as planned. So you're going to have to swerve and just move around it and keep it moving. So just get real flexible. And I say this to the next point. I had prepared this makeshift version of the show. It was three songs that I thought were going to be in the show. And I was going to present in March, like in mid-March.

And so maybe a day before I'm supposed to present, I ask Marshall to meet up with me to go over some of these, go over the numbers. And he watches them and he goes, why are you doing this? And I go, well, you know, I just kind of like, I like this song. And he goes, yeah, but right now, you're dancing like you're in the background. We need to be in the front. And also, what is this song about? And why did you choose this song? And I realized that I didn't have an answer. And I realized then and there that I was making a show that I thought people were supposed to see. And to that point, the people who were supposed to see it had all bailed out on me to come watch the March performance, March Little Snippet.

I think I asked maybe about 10 people to come and only one person came. And there were so many different reasons. It wasn't anything harsh or anything, but I asked for 10 people, one person came. And when that one person, what did you say? The one person was like, okay, but, and challenge. Well, here's the funny thing. Marshall wasn't the one person that came. Oh, okay. This was a day after. It was another good friend of mine, Samantha Pearlman, who came and she was just gung-ho. She said, oh, this is great. Let's just, I'll watch it. And she ended up recording it for me so that I can see what it looked like. So it turned so much more from a presentation to just having it on camera for archival purposes.

And also, I thought I was going to have to use that to get a theater to start shopping myself out. And so that's the other reason why I wanted people to be there. But I maybe messaged Amber two weeks before and she says, oh, I can get you the theater that I was at. You want me to do that for you? Check. Well, yeah. So just the way that everything is just bouncing around and the final hitter is Marshall saying, why are you doing this? And so because the performance was still tomorrow, I went through with the performance and the performance for one, and I got intel of, he's right. This doesn't feel as deep as I can be. And from there I had had a few ideas, but I remember thinking these are too hard.

I thought, I thought these are all too hard. And I even remember telling Marsh a day after this, we were just out hanging out. And I said, we were just talking about dance and performance. And then we got to talking about the show. And I said, yeah, Marsh, the issue is all the things that I want to do. I'm nervous that I won't get them done in time. And all he does is turn to his right, look at me and say, yeah. And that's when I knew that that inkling of an idea that I had was the idea to go with and to jump all the way into the water and, and quit coming up for air for lack of a better term. But, and for, for those of you listening, the premise of my show was that I am a believer in numerology to an extent.

I don't live my life by it, but I really do enjoy some of the lessons and ideas and thought processes that can be, be evoked, I guess, through, through listening to some of the numbers. And when I see numbers in a sequence, often I pay attention to that. Like, and during that time, I was seeing a lot of one, one, one, one, two, three, two, two, three, three, three, three, three, two, two, three, five, five, three, four, five. So I have this book that my sister Courtney introduced me to called Messages in the Numbers. And it's a book about numerology and what all the numbers mean. And I realized that one through five, the explanation of what each number meant was exactly the space that I needed to be in, in order to create the show. So I made a show about creating the show based off of those numbers.

[34:23] Curtis Holland: And it was just, it was so gripping. I'm trying to remember, it was called Enter the Maze, right? Or Inside the Maze.

[34:29] Brendon Stimson: Inside the Maze. And it was this, I remember it was almost like this cryptic feeling of like the, the press shots and things like that. I'm like, what is this going to be about? But I know it's going to be, I know it's going to be Curtis. And I think there, there is such this thing of diving into, you hear the concept of the show and then you have the show based on the concept of the show. So literally, you know, Inception, Inception Maze, got it. But, but there's this thing that when I tell you stillness is a superpower, Curtis Holland is the master of stillness.

[35:08] Jack Sippel: I totally agree.

[35:12] Brendon Stimson: Totally agree.

[35:13] Jack Sippel: Because, and I think, when did you-

[35:15] Curtis Holland: Subtlety.

[35:17] Jack Sippel: Stillness.

[35:18] Curtis Holland: When did you learn that like there is power? Because I'm literally, I mean, old man Stimson over here coming up on 48. No, but it's like, I'm still learning to, even, even in choreography things or even in, in just life things, there's just power in stillness and waiting. And your show spoke to me so hard of just the power of patience, the power of looking within, but also zooming out. I'm just, I'm not to just like, I mean, pour into it, but it's just, my mind goes back to the show. And I think if anyone has an opportunity that when, when Curtis Holland does another one man show, please, please do yourself a favor and go learn and educate yourself and have an epiphany as I did.

[36:10] Curtis Holland: That's, those are heavy words, Brendan.

[36:13] Brendon Stimson: It was a heavy show.

[36:14] Jack Sippel: Oh my god.

[36:17] Curtis Holland: Heavy pertation.

[36:19] Jack Sippel: I think I first learned stillness. That's a tricky question because I'm, I'm not always good at it. I'm not, I'm not always good at it. I'm trying to think. It wasn't, it wasn't when I was, it wasn't anywhere under the age of 20. I'll tell you that.

[36:37] Brendon Stimson: No. We're all, we're all running at that age.

[36:42] Curtis Holland: I'm telling you, I'm telling you. But yeah, I, I think when you're forced to sit down, you, you listen. Like, and I believe that about this show, about that first show in general, that I was just told, I was literally told, shut up, sit down, and I'll tell you when to move. And Brendan, you were, you were alluding to the journal, the journal section. And there was a section towards the end. It was kind of like, I guess what we would call that little crest right before we go into the, the attack number before the resolution.

[37:23] Jack Sippel: So like the, the one right before the big battle is kind of what it was.

[37:27] Curtis Holland: The precursor to the 11 o'clock number.

[37:37] Curtis Holland: So, so this whole, the whole time I'm going on this journey of number one, meaning to slow down. Number two, meaning to check in with your friends and your loved ones. Number three, meaning to take care of your health and get some good sleep. And then number four is about facing your fears. And for the number four, I had a few, and it's funny you say this, Brendan, I had a few options for this number. I heard this really beautiful piece of music, Mardi Gras in New Orleans, and it was the version by Alan Toussaint. And I remember hearing the, the, the song on my vinyl one day, on my record player. And I just said, oh, this is a really pretty song. And then my whole concept for this was always going to be about fear, but it was supposed to be about me shaking and not knowing if I want to step out.

So I was going to do this really literal liturgical dance to it and, and kind of show, show myself reaching for things. Once again, Brendan, doing a lot and doing a lot, trying to figure it out. I watched the video one day and I said, oh, this isn't it. I have to scrap it. I didn't know what it was going to be, but I just knew it wasn't that. And at the same time, so much context, and I apologize, everyone listening for all the bouncing back and forth that you're hearing. But on December 24th, so about 12 days after I was, I embarked on this journey, I went sober. And I went sober because I was not having a good relationship with alcohol at the time. So I needed to, to fix that. And I kind of had a breaking experience that made me feel like, oh, you've been waiting to do this and you just hit an all-time low.

If you don't jump back from this one, I don't know what's happening next. So I went to the Actors Fund and I asked for assistance with, you know, just staying on track with my sobriety. And I, at first, I just wanted to do for six months and see how I felt. And I said that I wanted to do six months because that would take me up all the way to my show. And, and that would just be a great way to focus on my show. And so while I'm speaking with my, with my

[40:08] Curtis Holland: The art of subtlety in dance is something that I think is often overlooked. It's not always about the big, flashy moves; sometimes it's the small, nuanced gestures that tell the most powerful stories.

[41:08] Curtis Holland: When I was working on my solo show "Inside the Maze," I really wanted to explore how those subtle movements could convey emotion and narrative. It was a challenge, but it was also incredibly rewarding.

[41:38] Curtis Holland: I remember one specific moment during the creation process where I had to strip everything back and focus on just a single gesture. It was amazing how much could be communicated with just a hand movement or a shift in weight.

[42:08] Curtis Holland: The audience's reaction to those subtle moments was often more profound than I expected. It made me realize that dance doesn't always have to be loud to be impactful.

[42:38] Curtis Holland: I think that’s a lesson we can all take into our performances, whether on stage or in life. Sometimes, less really is more.

[43:08] Curtis Holland: In "Inside the Maze," I also wanted to create a sense of intimacy. By focusing on subtlety, I could draw the audience in and make them feel like they were part of the journey.

[43:38] Curtis Holland: It’s about creating a connection, and I found that when I allowed myself to be vulnerable and embrace those quieter moments, the audience responded in a way that was truly magical.

[44:08] Curtis Holland: I’ve always believed in the power of storytelling through movement. Dance is such a unique form of expression, and subtlety can often convey the deepest emotions.

[44:38] Curtis Holland: I think it’s important for dancers to explore that aspect of their craft. It can open up new avenues for creativity and expression that they might not have considered before.

[45:08] Curtis Holland: The journey of creating "Inside the Maze" taught me so much about myself as an artist and as a person. It was a transformative experience that I will carry with me for the rest of my life.

[45:38] Curtis Holland: I hope that by sharing my story, I can inspire others to embrace their own unique voices and explore the subtleties in their work.

[46:09] Curtis Holland: Ultimately, it’s about finding your truth and expressing it in a way that resonates with others.

[46:21] Curtis Holland: I think that’s what makes art so powerful—it has the ability to connect us on a deeper level.

[46:38] Curtis Holland: So, whether you’re a dancer, a choreographer, or just someone who loves to express themselves through movement, I encourage you to explore the art of subtlety.

[47:08] Curtis Holland: You might just discover something incredible about yourself in the process.

[47:38] Curtis Holland: Thank you for having me on the show today. It’s been a pleasure to share my journey and insights with you all.

[48:08] Curtis Holland: I look forward to seeing how everyone continues to push the boundaries of dance and storytelling in their own unique ways.

[48:38] Curtis Holland: Remember, it’s all about the journey and the connections we make along the way.

[49:08] Curtis Holland: So, keep dancing, keep exploring, and never be afraid to take risks in your art.

[49:38] Curtis Holland: Thank you again for this opportunity to share my passion for dance and the art of subtlety.

[49:43] Curtis Holland: I can’t wait to see what the future holds for all of us in this beautiful world of dance.

[49:47] Curtis Holland: Let’s keep the conversation going and continue to support one another in our artistic endeavors.

[49:53] Curtis Holland: Until next time, keep shining and embracing the magic of movement.

[50:05] Curtis Holland:

[50:06] Curtis Holland:

[50:36] Curtis Holland:

[50:40] Curtis Holland:

[51:06] Curtis Holland:

[51:10] Curtis Holland:

[51:36] Curtis Holland:

[51:40] Curtis Holland:

[52:07] Curtis Holland:

[52:12] Curtis Holland:

[52:15] Curtis Holland:

[52:16] Curtis Holland:

[52:19] Curtis Holland:

[53:21]