This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Justin Guarini: And what happens when you're in the moment is suddenly you get over yourself, get out of your head, and suddenly you can connect. And isn't that what your actors want? Don't they want to connect to that whatever who is judging them? Do you get the role or not? Do you want to connect to the audience? Do you want to connect to your fellow actors, right? You need to get out of your head and into the moment so you can connect. You remember that you're one with them.

[0:32] Justin Guarini: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Audition Secrets. I'm Justin Guarini. Thank you so very much for tuning in. I've got a really great show for you today. It's a little bit different than what I usually do. Normally, I have actors, directors, and writers on the show. As a matter of fact, next week, I'm going to have Tony Award-winning writer Robert Horn, who of course won the Tony for Tootsie on the show. But this week, I've got two health practitioners, Dayana Pereira and Colin Kirts, who own Koru Real Wellness. And they stopped by to talk about Feldenkrais as well as XPT. They are XPT-trained professionals. We'll get into what that is as well as Feldenkrais if you don't know that. But a couple of the takeaways here from this episode are breathing as a health benefit that leads to heightened awareness.

As many of you will know if you watch my Instagram stories or my other social stuff, that breathing is a huge thing for me. And we get into that with some health practitioners who are all about the breath. Okay, another thing to take away from this one is radical honesty and vulnerability as the gateway to better connection in performance and in life. We get a little deep and spiritual in this conversation, and I'm so excited for you to hear it. Okay, before I get to the actual interview itself, I do want to tease you a little bit. I have got over the next couple of weeks some extremely exciting news about Audition Secrets, the podcast. We are leveling up. We are taking things to a brand new level, and I'm so, so very excited to be joining a wonderful family of folks.

I'll tell you more about it in a couple of weeks, but I just had to drop that little pearl into the water and let it ripple a little bit. I'm so, so very excited, and I cannot wait to tell you all the cool things that we are up to with Audition Secrets. Okay, in the meantime, here's the interview with Dayana Pereira and Colin Kirts of Koru Real Wellness.

[2:29] Justin Guarini: What I'd love to really first explore with you for my listeners is Feldenkrais and XPT, and for people who don't know what the Feldenkrais technique is, how would you explain that to them?

[2:47] Colin Kirts: The Feldenkrais method, this is the official name of somatic education. Look at what a mouthful that is, right? Somatic education. The Feldenkrais method of somatic education, so education, right? It's learning. It's somatic. It's done through the movement, through the body, through the certain specific kind of movement, I would say, and it's a way to utilize movement and attention together to engage the activity of your brain to create change, to create benefits, so that those can go anywhere from improving pain and posture to, so you just set up straight at the moment I said posture, yeah, and also you're mimicking what I'm doing, which is I have fairly decent posture, because over time, I learn how to use these movements to give my body the education through my brain's neuroplasticity, very difficult to understand, but it's just the ability of the brain to change and grow and keep evolving, to identify good posture with pleasure.

So, when I have poor posture, my body goes, hey, girl, that's hurting. Do you notice that? And I don't notice right away. I notice in a few moments that, yeah, lower back pain. But over time, it just happens on its own, that I organize my body to be in the best place to move, to act, to eat, to think, because I associate it with certain sensations, and the brain takes care of it. It's amazing.

[4:26] Justin Guarini: How did you come to Feldenkrais Method?

[4:28] Colin Kirts: Me? You're looking at me for that?

[4:29] Justin Guarini: Looking at you.

[4:29] Colin Kirts: I discovered it in 2007 when I was living in New York. I was at Columbia, and it's big in New York, of course, with the acting world and performing in general. And a couple people that I was at school with were taking classes, and had dropped the name, actually somebody you both know named Ethan, a lovely young man that I was actually living at an ashram with beforehand this summer, studying yoga, and then he got into Feldenkrais. And he was the main one that planted the seed for me 12 years ago. And I just went down to the institute in Chelsea and took some classes and actually met somebody else that Dayana's friends with, this woman Tessa, and took classes with her. And it was immediately clear that this was profound.

And the profundity had more to do at first, because I was studying religion, with the more, if you will, philosophical or even spiritual, not side, but core. And as Dayana was listening to me, I was thinking, God, we spend so much time explaining this and thinking of how to explain it. And it's always different. And that's very predictable. Because it's, you know, I remember when we first started talking about it at Burpee Park. All right.

[5:53] Dayana Pereira: Yeah.

[5:54] Colin Kirts: That moment where I think, yeah, and I take a moment. He didn't say anything. He's like, what do you do, man? And he's like, I just wasn't in the mood to try to explain, this is, I'm gonna, I need, like, how much attention are you willing to give me?

[6:06] Dayana Pereira: Right.

[6:07] Colin Kirts: Because if I rush, if I feel like I need to rush it, I go right to, okay, here's a clear distinction. And I talked about how it's different from massage and chiropractic, because that's the easiest. I've found that's an easy, consistent distinction for people to understand. And the simple piece there is that the focus of the work is your nervous system, so to speak, where your habits are rooted. It's skeletal muscular habits, neuromuscular habits, physiological habits. They're rooted in your nervous system. And there's, of course, truth to how chiropractic work and massage connect with your nervous system. But the focus of the Feldenkrais method is certainly neurological in a very oversimplified manner.

[6:51] Justin Guarini: Right. Right. That's the Cliff's Notes version of it. So you mentioned something that was popular in New York, popular with a lot of actors and movers. How have you seen Feldenkrais used in the, and both of you, how have you seen it used in the performance world?

[7:08] Dayana Pereira: That's how I came across the method, by the way, which is kind of funny. I founded an acting school in 1995. I was there for two years. And what I found fascinating-

[7:18] Colin Kirts: In Australia?

[7:19] Dayana Pereira: No, I was in Uruguay.

[7:20] Colin Kirts: Uruguay. Okay.

[7:22] Dayana Pereira: Where I was born. And we had at least 10 different classes to explore body movement and ballet and acrobatics and you name it. And Feldenkrais, out of all of them, was the one that transformed things for me, but not necessarily in the classroom environment, but at home.

[7:42] Justin Guarini: How so?

[7:43] Dayana Pereira: Well, you know, the way I reach for my alarm clock in the morning changed because my body learned how to twist with ease and not, I need to get up. So it was just, oh my gosh, this is easy now. So I reach for the damn alarm clock and snap it off. And my day starts different because it starts again with a pleasurable movement. So I want to make this very interesting point between habits, identifying habits. For me, it was like, I don't want to get up. I am, you know, 6 a.m. And then your reaction to the habit and how your body organizes or arranges itself to create that, be it sitting at the computer, cooking, carrying a child, your backpack, right? The habitual pattern could be thinking pattern as well, but movement pattern is easy to see.

And then you replace that. You don't even worry about attacking that because that's ingrained, that's old. All you have to do is identify it and say, oh, look, this is the way I do that. And it creates pain or discomfort. Okay, here's a new way. And you try the new way and associate the new way with pleasure, ease, mobility, sense of joy, sense of possibility. And then your body does the rest. You trust that you are so intelligent that you're going to pick a hundred times, unless you're in a survival situation and you need the old habit, you're going to pick the best one.

[9:10] Justin Guarini: You know, that's interesting that you say that and quickly, because what I'm hearing from all of this really is a greater sense of awareness. And this is the Audition Secrets podcast. And I really love to bring awareness to the habits and the thoughts and the things that actors are putting on themselves before they go into the audition room, while they're in the audition room, after they're in the audition room. And I think, you know, one of the biggest things that we think about is breath and awareness of the breath. And when I've worked with both of you, I mean, that is probably one of the first things that we talk about. And when I'm working with Colin, you know, we'll do all this workout stuff.

And he's like, okay, just breathe through your nose. Right? And like, I'm there running, like working my ass off. And he's like, just make sure you're breathing through your nose. And there's a whole reasons why we'll get into that. Talk to me about your understanding through Feldenkrais and through XPT, which we'll get to in a second, when it comes to awareness of the breath.

[10:14] Colin Kirts: In my experience, so many of the performers in the conventional sense are they're often musicians. And it, I think what you're the obvious link to, you know, your work and the podcast focus is not just through the breath, but through the awareness, the ability to get on stage, whether it's in the audition, or literally when you're performing, and know, as Dayana was saying, how to relax. And where you, and the key is, as you do more and pay attention more, you literally can see, oh, I can just allow myself to get in the flow. And you know, if you're a pianist or playing a violin, of course, you have to have, there's a certain structure to it that you need to respect. But knowing how you can hold literally the violin better, makes all the difference.

Knowing diaphragmatic breathing as a singer makes all the difference. I just gave my first best man speech. And that's a totally different kind of stage, much smaller, but I could tell it, wow, I'm able to just let this flow. That flow state is kind of, especially in performance, that's what we're seeking all the time. That's that, and for lack of a better word, that drug that, you know, we get up there, and we are just in the moment, and whatever's happening is happening. And I find that when I'm performing, and I'm doing my best, I don't plan in advance. I mean, they're obviously, like you said, there are certain structures when it comes to blocking where you're supposed to be when. You gotta stick to the script sometimes.

[11:43] Dayana Pereira: You gotta stick to the script, obviously.

[11:43] Colin Kirts: But it's like, I know when my body is just being, you know what I mean? I know when I'm just in that flow state, in that awareness, and especially to the breath.

[11:59] Justin Guarini: So you asked about the breath.

[12:00] Colin Kirts: Yeah, especially to the breath. I mean, I know that diaphragmatic breathing is imperative when it comes, it's like singing one-on-one, right? And whether you're a dancer, or a singer, or you're just acting, or moving around, how can people become more aware of the breath, and make the breath more advantageous to themselves?

[12:24] Dayana Pereira: I think you just answered the question you asked by saying the breath is the gateway to flow, in my experience. And if you think about it, it's the gateway to actual life, lived to its fullest, just for the simple fact that it's our life force, that it's the first thing you do when you are born, and it's probably the last thing you'll do before you go on to whatever's next, if there's anything after, right? In any case, the last breath, right, idea. So I think practice, I think practice that awareness of, am I breathing deeply right now, or am I taking 18 breaths a minute, which is, you know, 16 to 18 breaths a minute is the average that we take these days. And optimally for health, it should be between seven, six, and eight, between six and eight breaths a minute.

So we breathe rapidly, we breathe shallow, and we breathe a lot of people through the mouth. So just bringing the attention to the depth of the breath, and the where is it taking place, unless you're speaking, could be done through the nose, and it could take place in your lower abdomen, between your ribs, low back, and then come up into the chest.

[13:37] Colin Kirts: You mentioned something, and this is a little bit about the XPT, you went down to Gabby Reese and Laird Hamilton's place down in, where is that, Costa Rica?

[13:48] Dayana Pereira: Costa Rica.

[13:49] Colin Kirts: Not their place, but-

[13:49] Dayana Pereira: Not their house.

[13:50] Colin Kirts: Well, whatever it is. An experience, and we did a lot of breathing there. And actually, I did it today because I have an XPT class here, Tuesdays and Thursdays, 40 minute breath work sessions every day, and I did one today, just like that. And a lot of patterning that have to do with, of course, the proper breathing mechanics that I was just describing, but then the practice of breathing intentionally as an activity. So it takes a little bit of effort to sustain fast breathing, holding, breathing pattern that involves breath holds, and a lot of sound.

[14:28] Colin Kirts: Larry says your breath has a voice and if you don't allow it, then the animal in you cannot get out. So you link your exhalation with the sound of your breath and then you connect to that roar of your life force.

[14:43] Justin Guarini: Interesting. So what are some of the sounds that you hear in class? I mean, is it literal roars?

[14:48] Colin Kirts: Some of them, but yeah. Anything from like a general exhale like... Or... Would you let the beast out? I don't want to scare your listeners, but seriously, you connect to that life force. And I think once you make that a practice, and then of course there's very slow cadences, there's very geometrical cadences where you make four corners of your breath and you connect to the pulses between in and out, and you'd learn that the breath can take you different places, can increase activity, can increase calm and relaxation, focus, can increase parasympathetic state where you go to sleep and sympathetic state, ready to jump, bliss.

[15:31] Justin Guarini: I think because most of the performers listening to this are going to be familiar with the breath and breath work, and we've done some things like that in school, but for people who just aren't aware of it or aren't as aware of it, what's a simple exercise that someone could take from this podcast and say, okay, I'm going to try this for 5, 10, however many minutes a day?

[15:55] Colin Kirts: Yeah, well, I would love to send you to our YouTube channel where I have some recordings, so we can put that on the notes. But just something anyone can do right now, even as you listen, is just inhale through your nose, say it takes you 3 beats to inhale, and then hold it for 3 beats, and then exhale through your nose for 3 beats, back of your throat if you want to, like an ocean, like still through the nose, and then hold it for 3, and do that a number of times, and just see, in 10 minutes, you reset your whole nervous system, especially if you can do it from your belly, from your lower diaphragm.

[16:34] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, it's the main one that we teach, and they teach in XQT, they call it box breathing, and then it turns into, yeah, understanding there are 4 parts, like Diana said, 4 parts to every breath, no matter how you do it, the inhale, the moment, the exhale, the moment. And it takes care of slowing it down, because if you're pausing, if you're attending to the pause, like between the heartbeats, you know, Miles Davis' famous quote, the music is the pause between the notes, that silence, well, that exists in breath, but we don't ever pay attention to that.

[17:06] Colin Kirts: So that on its own will reset you, will downregulate your heart, will focus your attention, and have you really come into yourself, and from that place, I think it's much easier to talk, to flow, to present yourself.

[17:21] Justin Guarini: Sure, I mean, imagine doing that before an audition, or doing that before a performance. You know, there's a, for lack of a better word, motivational speaker, and he has this really great meditation that's so simple, where he literally just sits, and he breathes like what you're talking about, and he starts by saying the word, release, release, release, release, on the out-breath, and then starts saying it internally, and then just says that word, that word, that word, and I've done it, and it's amazing that you feel, not only is it a release of whatever you've done before that moment, whatever mind things are going on, but your muscles release, you relax, and I kind of feel like that's the same thing.

[18:08] Colin Kirts: Breathing through the nose, you've explained this to me before, but I would love to get a refresher on it. Why through the nose? What specifically, from a physical standpoint, is it so important, and so different than, you know, breathing maybe in through the nose, out through the mouth, which is a lot of sort of yoga-type breathing?

[18:25] Dayana Pereira: Some of it, right. Not all of it, but obviously some of it.

[18:29] Colin Kirts: So yeah, the nuts and bolts of the breath, as Diana was saying, and you've already said as well, slow, deep, nasal. The key whys for nasal, something called parasympathetic nervous system, getting in a parasympathetic state, that's seemingly not, I don't know if it's technically or understandably possible with your mouth, and I believe the main reason is something called nitric oxide. There's nitric oxide receptors in your nose, not in your mouth. It's also just literally easier to take a deep, slow breath through your nose than through your mouth.

[19:06] Dayana Pereira: And it seems counterintuitive.

[19:07] Colin Kirts: The mouth hole's bigger.

[19:10] Justin Guarini: Well, fair enough, but...

[19:11] Colin Kirts: But where does it go? Just do it right now. Breathe through your mouth, and it goes up into the chest immediately.

[19:17] Dayana Pereira: Right, and the mouth hole's bigger.

[19:18] Colin Kirts: Through the nose.

[19:19] Justin Guarini: That's a quote.

[19:20] Colin Kirts: That's going to be my quote.

[19:21] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, well, it's just because you see it's a bigger hole, right, it's a bigger cavity, but actually the nose, besides having more receptors for better oxygenation, which is the...

[19:31] Colin Kirts: Nitrous, yeah.

[19:32] Dayana Pereira: ...layman words of what he just said, nitric oxide is a chemical that your body receives as oxygenates the blood better, then parasympathetic is that calm state of your nervous system, is inducing rest and relaxation and conservation of energy, versus sympathetic, which is fight or flight, right?

[19:53] Colin Kirts: So nasal breathing provokes your brain to relax and gives more oxygen to the blood, but also it allows you to use your diaphragm. When you do the mouth, you can't, you go into the chest, right, unless you train yourself.

[20:07] Dayana Pereira: So we do a lot of mouth-mouth, which sounds like...

[20:13] Colin Kirts: And you are using your diaphragm, but it takes intention, because the first thing most people do, you go through the mouth and...

[20:21] Dayana Pereira: Into the chest.

[20:22] Colin Kirts: And then you have the sympathetic, fight or flight, ready to push that piano out of the house or lift a car or fight the tiger.

[20:28] Justin Guarini: Push that piano out of the house.

[20:29] Colin Kirts: Yeah.

[20:30] Dayana Pereira: Right? It's crazy stuff.

[20:32] Colin Kirts: Yeah, and like Diana said, you can train yourself to take a deep breath through your mouth. Most weightlifters, when they're lifting a heavy weight and they figure out how to brace their core and their transverse abdominus, which is imperative to hold a heavy weight, like a piano or a barbell, they do it through their mouth.

[20:52] Dayana Pereira: And that's because it's got to be quick and snappy.

[20:54] Colin Kirts: But often, and we do both, but a lot of why the nasal is so critical is because a lot of what we do here with people is getting them into the ice, which is a shock.

[21:08] Justin Guarini: Perfect transition to what I was going to ask you about. I was just going to ask you about the XPT and the ice. So go ahead, continue that thought.

[21:15] Colin Kirts: Yeah, and I remember your experiences so far, and I hope you get in again soon.

[21:20] Justin Guarini: Oh, I would love to.

[21:21] Colin Kirts: Yeah, I'm cool with it now.

[21:22] Justin Guarini: I'm going right in after this, honestly.

[21:24] Colin Kirts: Oh, yeah?

[21:25] Justin Guarini: Yeah, we're all welcome.

[21:28] Colin Kirts: Yeah, you cannot calm... I think we've... I've never seen, and I suspect Diana would say the same, but I've never seen anybody enjoy being in the ice, which is another way of saying succeed, because I think the point really is to find the pleasure in it.

[21:45] Justin Guarini: So let's, just as an explanation, ice baths. So what you have in Koru and what they have designed in XPT is basically a tub, right?

[21:58] Colin Kirts: And how much water fits in there?

[22:00] Dayana Pereira: Well, these are literally just rubber-made tubs.

[22:01] Colin Kirts: 100 gallons.

[22:02] Dayana Pereira: Well, whatever.

[22:03] Colin Kirts: It doesn't matter.

[22:04] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, exactly.

[22:05] Colin Kirts: Two tubs.

[22:06] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, like two big tubs.

[22:07] Colin Kirts: There are fancy ones out there.

[22:08] Dayana Pereira: Fancy schmancy.

[22:09] Colin Kirts: 100 gallons of water, cold water.

[22:10] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, whatever.

[22:11] Colin Kirts: So it's a lot of water in there, and enough for you to get in there and be in there comfortably. And then you just dump bags of ice in it, and it's about, what, 32 degrees, I guess?

[22:21] Dayana Pereira: Or less.

[22:22] Colin Kirts: Or less, around there. And so you get into it, and I remember the first time I got into it, it was real cold. I mean, real, real cold. And it was definitely a shock to my system, and I didn't get into the sauna first, because that's an option. You can heat yourself up. But I got in first, and it was...

[22:38] Dayana Pereira: And you didn't breathe first.

[22:39] Colin Kirts: And I didn't breathe. There you go, going back to the breath. It's so important, because the next time that I got in, I breathed, and it was a completely different experience. But when I got in, my first instinct was to, what do you call this, clench and to contract, and to just try and ward off the cold and fight it.

[23:01] Justin Guarini: And it's kind of funny, because when it comes to nerves, or whenever I've been reluctant to do something in my performance life, it's just so interesting to see how, when I fight against those nerves, when I fight against that reluctance, or whatever that mindset, or whatever I'm thinking of, how that affects me so much more deeply.

[23:22] Colin Kirts: And it affects different systems in my body, right? My heart starts racing. I get clenched jaw and neck and shoulders when I try and fight it. And the ice is a really amazing sort of just lesson in letting go and allowing the cold to... I mean, penetrate, is that the right word?

[23:44] Dayana Pereira: I wouldn't say that.

[23:45] Colin Kirts: But just allowing it to be, and to realize that, at the end of the day, you are in control, and your environment, as cold as it is, does not control you.

[23:57] Dayana Pereira: Surrender.

[23:58] Colin Kirts: The environmental part is really the key to... There's so many important components to it. I just read somebody, a friend of ours, just sent an article, literally, which there's no... I don't know if there's proof to this, but like, hey, guess what? There's new research about ice bathing and anxiety and depression, and the links between decreasing that. And that's beautiful. And I think a lot... Wim Hof is really excited about, and we can talk about who he is as well, how the ice bath is relevant, and the ice in general is relevant to mental health.

[24:30] Dayana Pereira: But what you just said about the environment, we all have the piece that we're most excited about. To me, it gets cold. It gets cold on Earth, and as an animal, we are, and we're on Earth, and it's relevant to... I mean, I think that's the link to mental health, recognizing that we're on Earth, and it gets cold, and we need to, for real wellness, if you will, embrace that.

[24:55] Colin Kirts: And find a way to love that. And I believe there is a real way to love that component of life on Earth.

[25:00] Dayana Pereira: Well, not just cold, but I think what I'm hearing is that all of it, because it's like we don't have to fear the lion anymore. We don't have to fear... And now, of course, if you are in a situation where you might be in an environment or a neighborhood that is less than safe, okay, barring that, right? But in our normal everyday life, we're at the top of the food chain, right? If we don't want to be cold, we more often than not are able just to not be cold. We could be warm all the time if we want to, just put on a jacket.

[25:32] Colin Kirts: But I think that there is something to be said for experiencing the extremes of cold, and the extremes of heat, and the extreme of love, and the extreme of fear, because that's life.

[25:46] Dayana Pereira: That is the breath of life, right?

[25:48] Colin Kirts: We have Koru Real Wellness in the social media, Instagram and Facebook, and the website is WeAreKoru.com.

[25:52] Justin Guarini: Great. I'll put all that in the notes so people can go check it out because it's fascinating. I want to mention two things. One is adaptation, that we want to adapt. We want to, in a way, expand our potential by the same way. Why do you work out? You don't just work out to stay the same. You work out to bring that baseline of what's possible a little higher, right? Without going crazy and saying, no, I just want to build muscle to the infinite. No, I want to get stronger. I want to get more able to outlast myself and to be more resilient and be at it for longer, right?

[26:30] Dayana Pereira: In every realm.

[26:30] Justin Guarini: If you're an actor and you're training your body, you want to see, how can I train without exhausting myself? If you need to read for someone for three hours and you need to control your stamina, in all scenarios, you want to adapt to a certain level of stress, so then your homeostasis, what is baseline, okay, I'm safe, it's a little higher next time. Your body, physiologically, doesn't make a difference between emotional stress, mental stress, work stress, heat stress, thermal stress.

[27:03] Colin Kirts: When you use the safe environment of a heated sauna, which, by the way, is about 200 degrees, or a very cold ice tub, and you're teaching yourself certain ways of coping with it, be it the breath, mental techniques that we teach you, or just surrendering to it, which is a little bit of emotional technique, then you learn how to cope with stress in a safe way that then you can apply in other areas.

[27:29] Dayana Pereira: So if you're stressed in that audition, for example, or you're stressed because it's your first night, second night, things go bad, right? The first night, all the mistakes pop out. So then you have a way to just bring yourself back to center because you've trained yourself in a stressful environment that is not the stage, and it's not the audition room.

[27:47] Colin Kirts: And it's safe.

[27:48] Dayana Pereira: And it's totally safe.

[27:49] Colin Kirts: And you can get out of it any time you want.

[27:51] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[27:52] Colin Kirts: You can stop it.

[27:53] Dayana Pereira: You can say, stop!

[27:54] Justin Guarini: I really wanted to get out.

[27:55] Colin Kirts: Yeah, I lasted about 30 seconds in the bath.

[27:57] Justin Guarini: The first time.

[27:58] Colin Kirts: The first time.

[27:59] Dayana Pereira: The second time was good.

[28:00] Colin Kirts: The second time was fantastic.

[28:01] Justin Guarini: Well, because the second time I trained, and I prepared for it. It was one of those things where, for my listeners, I want them to know that if you don't have access to a bath or a cold shower, greatest thing that I started doing, I would take my hot shower, and I'll do all my business what I do. And then I would literally just turn the heat off and pump up the cold, and I'll just stay in there for, just get all over my body.

[28:31] Dayana Pereira: And at first it was hellish.

[28:32] Colin Kirts: Yeah.

[28:33] Justin Guarini: And if you're anything like me, the first reaction is like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, and what is that? It's hyperventilating through the mouth. And what you want to do is slow and through the nose. The same thing that works with the eyes, with the breathing techniques is, so you go.

[28:50] Colin Kirts: And after 10 seconds, it's not that cold.

[28:52] Justin Guarini: It's not that bad.

[28:53] Colin Kirts: And you enjoy it after maybe 30 seconds.

[28:56] Dayana Pereira: Have you ever walked out of an audition room and said to yourself, oh my gosh, that was terrible. I should have, could have done so much better. Well, you are not alone. I used to do that all the time until I decided to find a better way. And I started asking my coaches, my mentors, my friends, the shiny people I knew in the business, how they auditioned, how they approached the art of auditioning. And I began to discover patterns and roadmaps and secrets to success. And that's why I wrote the book, Audition Secrets Volume 1, the behind the scenes guidebook for nailing more auditions and booking more jobs. And you can get that book for free at auditionsecrets.com.

[29:26] Justin Guarini: Why are you giving it away for free, Justin? Well, let me tell you. I want to give you more upfront for free than most people will charge you for because this information is so vital. It is important. I want you to have it. You need to have it. And it will radically alter the way you audition, the way you approach performance. And like it promises, it will help you nail more auditions and book more jobs. So go on over to auditionsecrets.com and download your free copy today.

[29:56] Dayana Pereira: Breath work, obviously very important, but something that we talked about, Diana and I saw each other on the train like last week. I think it was something like that. We were going up north. And you talk about mental work in the ice. And I love to talk about mindsets and mental work when it comes to performance. And especially in the audition game, you know, there's so much fear. There's so much negative self-talk. And so one of the things that I definitely felt when I got into the ice was some negative self-talk, right? I really was like, I can't. All the limiting words that we think about. And so what are some of the techniques to reverse that self-talk or in essence to surrender when you're in the ice?

[30:16] Colin Kirts: That's a cool question. I got one. So apparently when you talk to yourself in the third person, your inner self listens in a way that it doesn't if you talk to yourself in the first person. Because you are so used to belittling yourself, self-doubting yourself in the first person. I can't do this. I don't know. I'm not sure. So the I, when you don't have a lot of inner work and you've associated the I with that hyper-consciousness or consciousness that is beyond the little me, what Buddhists call the little I. When you don't associate yourself with the big I all the time, the I doesn't work so much. So when you call yourself by your first name and you're talking to yourself as in third person, so you say, Justin, you got this. That really gets you concentrated.

[30:36] Dayana Pereira: So for me, I would say, I tell myself in the ice, Diana, you got this. Diana, you can do this.

[30:56] Colin Kirts: That's so interesting. With or without your name. You can do this. And we spoke about this on the train.

[43:24] Dayana Pereira: Because people respond to outside authority, right?

[43:28] Colin Kirts: Yeah. People respond to somebody from outside telling you what you can do. And I think it's because we don't do it enough with ourselves. So, we're used to telling ourselves what we are afraid of and what we can't do. Even if you say, I got this. Are you sure you believe that the moment you're saying it? But this thing of, you got this. Yeah.

[43:49] Justin Guarini: Interesting. So, a third person self-talk is one way.

[43:52] Dayana Pereira: Yeah. That's a great way. That's the one I can think of doing without even realizing I was doing it.

[43:58] Colin Kirts: Well, because it's so fascinating. Just that little shift though, that micro-adjustment from saying, because you're right. I mean, every time it's like, I can't, I am not able, I... I don't know.

[44:12] Dayana Pereira: Right. I don't know, right? But if you just make that shift to the third person...

[44:17] Colin Kirts: Then what is your mind doing when you get in the ice? Your mind immediately goes to, this is very cold. I'm going to die. I don't... Fear. So, if you give your mind the task, say, put it on the breath and let your mind concentrate on the breathing pattern, slow through the nose. Or sometimes I would say, breathe in three beats, breathe out in six. Breathe in three, hold it for one, breathe out in six. And then your mind has a task and it's suddenly not paying attention to the fact that it's cold and it's breathing. So then you've shifted your mindset just by giving something to do to your attention.

[44:58] Dayana Pereira: And the rest of you surrenders.

[45:00] Colin Kirts: Yeah, if you allow it. And that comes back to the semantics of it. You do have to pay attention to how am I actually sitting in there or lying in there and where are my legs and arms organized? It makes a difference how your humerus and femur are positioned and how much you can relax your hips, relax your abdomen. And with regard to self-talk and third person, second person, like everything, it's really easier the more you do it. And that's one technique, but the reality of any of the techniques is the more you do it, the easier it gets. It's not just that practice makes permanent or perfect, so to speak. It's the particular kind of practice. And that's just understanding, again, the nervous system and how it is essentially just your clay to mold, your art. That's how I look at the nervous system. It's my art to mold how I like.

[45:58] Justin Guarini: I know for me, it's like I've been to acting classes. I've been to singing classes. I've been to all this other stuff. But when in just schooling in general, except for specific studies, do we ever focus on the breath work or mental work? Or like you said, I have never before this moment, I've never really thought of the nervous system as something that was a pliable thing, that was an art. I mean, I get it. But when you take it out of any other sort of context and see it on its own, that's amazing that yes, with breath work and with doing what it is that we're talking about here, you really can mold your nervous system.

[46:40] Colin Kirts: Well, the modern metaphor is it's a program. Sometimes joke about nervous systems, your program, skeletal systems, your hardware, soft tissues, your software, and you got to take care of that program.

[46:50] Dayana Pereira: For the little that we know about the brain, because we have, and same with the physiological benefits of the ice and the sun, I mean, the research will catch up to the practices. These are ancient practices. By the way, science is always behind the innovation of the human species. But I mean, to prove really that what I'm feeling is right, it's always later. The brain, we don't know much about it, but we know now compared to 100 years of prior research that it's plastic. We are not born with a number set of neurons. Our brain cells don't decay as we age, but we keep growing new ones. It's not you use them or you lose them. It's about you use them more and you get more connections and you learn new things up to the very last day. So that's the plasticity of the brain that we're banking on, to learn all these things, even a proper way of, say, breathing.

[47:47] Colin Kirts: And I want to say being present is what I maybe want to emphasize that happens with the breath work, with the ice, with the sauna, with felling crisis. It just brings you back to the present moment, brings you back to the here and now, puts your feet right here on the spot, because it doesn't really matter what got you here. It doesn't really matter what you're going to have for dinner, but it's what are we doing now that really counts. So you put your attention back in the moment. That's the most ancient technique of all. Right?

[48:23] Dayana Pereira: Yeah. Just one last mental technique that Laird shared with us recently, and that was he gets in the ice tub and he says to himself, this is my home, this is where I live.

[48:35] Colin Kirts: Wow. You can find a video of him saying that on Diana's social media page.

[48:42] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, my personal page, which is Diana Breathe Now, by the way, because I'm obsessed with the breath work. But this is my home. This is where I live. Imagine saying that when you're nervous as hell sitting in an audition room.

[48:55] Colin Kirts: Exactly. This is my home. This is where I live. This is where I live. I mean, it's practically where most people live anyway. There's nowhere to go. There's nothing else to do. Here I'm comfortable. Here I'm safe. I'm just going to be here. And you make it your home.

[49:08] Dayana Pereira: Yeah. What Diana was saying about the science, it's wonderful. All we're doing with exploring is exploring what's possible because we don't know. I mean, the fundamental thing we keep realizing is we don't know what's possible.

[49:20] Colin Kirts: Yeah, I don't know what the quote is. Oh, the brain stops developing at 25. Well, no, it doesn't. That's just cuckoo. We say these things and we take them and create stories. And we all know that stories are what's limiting. And there's so many great quotes that we could all use. And I like to look at it as everything either increases possibility or increases limitation. The more you're aware of that, the more you can be in the moment, which is what we are consistently striving to do.

[49:57] Dayana Pereira: Yeah. Right. And what happens when you're in the moment is suddenly you get over yourself, get out of your head, and suddenly you can connect. And isn't that what your actors want? Absolutely. Don't they want to connect to that whatever who is judging them? Do you get the role or not? Do you want to connect to the audience? Do you want to connect to your fellow actors, right? You need to get out of your head and into the moment so you can connect. You remember that you're one with them.

[50:24] Colin Kirts: And what I really love to hammer home, especially with my students, is that, yes, you connect with the people on the other side of the table who are judging you. Basically, you connect with the audience. But the real true beauty of doing the work is connecting to yourself. And when you really, truly connect to yourself, you understand that your perspective, your life, the experiences that you've had, no one else in this world has had. It's as unique as a fingerprint, right? And if you really, truly delve into that, and if we really, truly connect with ourselves and realize that our perspective is unique when it comes to the auditioning game, then we remove one of the biggest limiting beliefs, one of the biggest barriers, and that's competition.

There is no competition. When you're just coming at it knowing that no one else can do what I do, and it's great. I've worked hard at it. I believe in it. I love it. I'm going to go into the room, and I'm going to say to the people on the other side of the table, not literally, say to them, hey, I got this great thing. Do you want to get on board? If you do, great. If you don't, great. And then you stop comparing then, too, right?

[51:44] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, and I find myself doing that all the time. You know, with social media, it's so easy to do. I'm like, oh, here's XYZ actor, XYZ singer, and every time I go to the place of like, oh, they're doing this, and I'm not doing that, I say, wait a minute, whoa, that's their path. I'm not supposed to be doing that. I'm doing what I'm doing here, and to compare myself and my life and my experiences and my have or have nots to them is the biggest folly. It's the trap. It's like the biggest trap that we fall into, and it just robs us of our power. It robs us of our individuality, and it robs us of the gratitude for the life and experiences that we've had.

[52:26] Colin Kirts: Yeah, and the ability to enjoy being yourself and to love yourself. You know, there's a Feldenkrais quote, correct me if I don't get it right, that if you, after a lesson or a session or a class, if somebody loves themselves more than you've, quote unquote, done your job, that's a success.

[52:41] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, sure.

[52:43] Colin Kirts: I remember the anecdote you shared with us when we talked last about how when you're auditioning, instead of literally putting on a show, now, how are you? I'm kind of shitty.

[52:55] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, that's it. That's in my book. I think it might be the, I don't know what chapter it is, but like, don't ever lie.

[53:01] Colin Kirts: Don't ever lie.

[53:01] Dayana Pereira: Like, yeah, walk in and be yourself because it is the most powerful tool you have in your entire arsenal.

[53:07] Colin Kirts: It's way more interesting to look at someone that is being authentic than just, I can see right through you. So, if you're lying to me, I'm so bored already, because you're lying to yourself in that very moment, right?

[53:19] Dayana Pereira: And casting directors are used to, and creative teams on the other side of the table are used to people coming in and just lying to them left and right. But it is still energy on their part to have to be like, okay, I'm going to put this to the back of my mind that that person's lying. You know what I mean? It's just one less, it's just less energy that they could be focused on using to focus on you.

[53:43] Colin Kirts: Yeah, and I want to bring another connection to this point, which we made in the train as well, and thank you for that. That was a beautiful, unexpected conversation, which is the vulnerability piece. Because once you're able to say, and I just did it recently in class, maybe two weeks ago, I teach a Friday morning class, which they've known me for a long time, and it's a nice group, solid group.

[54:05] Justin Guarini: What are you teaching?

[54:05] Colin Kirts: The Feldenkrais. Feldenkrais is done both one-on-one on the table, and also in groups. So, you guide them with your voice, and they find those movements on their own, and they use the attention and engage the brain and the whole thing on their own.

[54:20] Dayana Pereira: And I was going through a rough patch, you know, personally, and I just stood in front of them that Friday morning, and I said, I'm having a hard day today. And here I am, right? They look at me as the teacher coming to class, tell them what to do. They are guided by my voice. I don't demonstrate. Feldenkrais is never demonstrated, so you find your own movement. And they're looking at me like, you know, what do we do today? And I'm like, I'm having a hard time today. And here I go telling them that it's okay to not be perfect, and it's okay not to have it all together all the time, and that it's okay to be vulnerable and to show this is it, and we're going to get out of this, you know, less than centered place together. And it worked, and it opened something. They saw me as a human, and they saw that I was not perfect, because I'm not.

[55:12] Colin Kirts: So, that's the audition piece where you can say, yeah, you know, I had a rough time getting here. I'm late. I'm sweaty. You know, I'm a little off, but I'm here with my best, and that's what I got. And it's so much more exciting to hear that. And I don't know when it happened, because I grew up around the generation of entertainer who lived in the sort of, we're going to put the veil down between us and our audience.

[55:36] Dayana Pereira: Mystery.

[55:36] Colin Kirts: Mystery, yeah. Intrigue. And we don't know who these people really are, but we love them so much because they're stars. And yet, now, with social media, with the accessibility we have to one another, there seems to be this weird thing where that vulnerability, that suffering, that openness is so attractive.

[56:04] Dayana Pereira: And especially when you're someone in a position of power like you are in that class, you know, we're all trying to, in some way or another, and I don't say we all, many people are trying to, in some way or another, live that scrubbed social media life. I mean, we have filters and apps and things that we can just remove the imperfections. Yet at the same time, while we have all of that, and it's out there, underneath all of that, the people who really open up the stars, like Busy Phillips is one of them. I mean, Busy Phillips was on, was she on My So-Called Life? Oh my God, please don't hate me for not knowing that if you're listening to this and you're screaming right now. But she was on a very popular show, and then she didn't work for a long time.

And then all of a sudden, she started just getting on social media and just living her life. And I mean, it was like things that normally you would cringe at, like crying in the car, just put the phone up and did it, and was just angry or crying, all the extremes. And it has just been the wave that she rode to a complete resurgence of her career, had a show on network television. And again, it's that vulnerability that we have been, I guess, from a young age taught to fight against that ultimately is one of our greatest weapons in life, much less inside of an audition room, for sure. You said something to my wife, she came in today for a session, and I wrote it down because it was really relevant to just, it was awesome, and really relevant to my life. And I know it will be relevant to a lot of the lives of the people listening. It's like being the eye, if you're in it, you can't see it. And it's the difference between your

[57:52] Dayana Pereira: So, what happened is two things. One is that once you can see yourself, once you can say, okay, Justin, oh, look, I do that. I did this. I messed up my audition. That happened, and then you put yourself into that I. I mentioned this before. Then you're caught up in it. You're in the story. You don't even make a difference between Justin and you, but you're not really Justin, if that makes any sense, because in the moment where you can see yourself, then that is the first level of awareness. So, then you see yourself doing something, saying something, messing up, and you can observe yourself from kind of like outside or above. So, then that's the first level of distinction, and this is not me.

This is Buddhist teachings that I study. Me and I are different. The me is the one that suffers. The me is the one that had that trauma. The me is the one that believed that because that happened to me, then I'm less, and I'm not worthy, and I'm not able, and I'm not powerless, and I'm not strong enough, and whatever. The I looks at that and says, look, if you can see that, then I'm not that. I can see it. That happened in the past. It's no longer who you are. That happened in the past. It doesn't define me. I don't have to relive that. I don't have to replay that, but also, I'm not that. I'm a higher consciousness that can see that, and then above that, there's something else that we're doing right now, which is meta-awareness.

You're aware that you are aware of the me. So, if we can see us seeing us in the past, we're not even the I. We're the big I. We're not the little I that can see the me. We are the big I. We are the consciousness. We are connected to spirit. There's not even a word for that.

[1:00:10] Colin Kirts: Yeah. Yeah, and it all begins with awareness. Bring it all the way back around to awareness. Let go of that moment of the past that doesn't define who you are today. Let go, like a big backpack. Drop it.

[1:00:25] Dayana Pereira: Right, but that's so easy to say. I think I certainly have struggled with that, and I struggle with it every single day. I think everyone does.

[1:00:33] Colin Kirts: Absolutely.

[1:00:34] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, but I feel like it's almost like if I'm flowing through time, if we think time, if we become aware of time from moment to moment to moment to moment to moment, it's a new possibility, right? And we are flowing through time, I guess we want to think of it in a linear sense, and that thing that happened in the past is no longer who I am. And that's a really important distinction to make, right? Because we carry those things with us. Oh, I had this childhood trauma, and oh, I had these things. And it goes back to my thing that I talked about in your podcast.

[1:01:14] Colin Kirts: Tell me again. You've changed the name of your podcast, but I want to know what the name of the podcast is now.

[1:01:17] Dayana Pereira: Movement Matters.

[1:01:18] Colin Kirts: Movement Matters.

[1:01:19] Dayana Pereira: A little pun.

[1:01:20] Colin Kirts: Is the podcast. Yeah, Movement Matters. We found there were like five both ands. I was like, oh, crap.

[1:01:25] Dayana Pereira: Right, it used to be called Both And Podcast, and now it's the Movement Matters Podcast. In the episode that I was on, I spoke about stories. My students have heard me say it a million times, but our number one job as performers, in my belief, our number one job as performers is to serve the story. And yet, we carry all these stories with us that don't serve us in life, but also in performance, right? And so, I think why it hit me so hard when you said that is that, oh, my goodness, you're right. I am no longer the same person that that trauma happened to. It could have happened five seconds ago, or five years, or 10 years ago, but I'm not that person anymore. And the fact that I can see that, and I can look back on that, and the I is looking back on, you want to call it the me that that happened to, is such a huge distinction.

And through that, I mean, the question I guess I have, and I don't know if we can answer it, is then how do you, with that perspective, let go of that me, that story that me wants to hang on to, and that I use to define myself? Because so many people will talk to me about, I had this terrible audition, and ever since, I haven't been able to, or I've had this thing, I messed up on stage, and I haven't been able to do this ever since. So, how do you, through awareness, through breath, through what it is that you know, and the modalities that you use, how do you begin to shed that me, and that old story?

[1:03:05] Dayana Pereira: The first step is very hard to do, which is to identify what are the emotions, or the feelings associated with that, that you can still, it's so hard to say, but in a way, they serve you. They don't serve you, but they serve you, because they serve you as crutches to avoid your full growth. So, you're victimizing yourself that way. Okay, so that, yeah, and that is, you can find it in people's body of work and podcasts. What I mean is, okay, if I make this story that happened to me, and because that happened to me, then I can't, then I don't have to try. That's true, you're a victim.

[1:03:52] Colin Kirts: Yeah, and that I'm going to limit, and I'm going to, in a way, I'm going to stay in my shell, and then I don't have to break through my comfort zone, which is what we do, by the way, with the breathwork, with the eyes, all that is push the comfort zone, lean into it, and see what's on the other side. I don't have to jump that cliff. I don't have to show myself. I can just be here, and in a way, I stay small, and I stay unhealthy by doing that, but then I, you know,

[1:04:16] Dayana Pereira: You feel safe.

[1:04:17] Colin Kirts: Look safe.

[1:04:17] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, quote unquote safe.

[1:04:19] Colin Kirts: Right, so once you identify that, then you decide, okay, I don't want to be there. I don't want to do that, and then comes the tools, but first, take a look at what are these self-serving things that are really not serving you, but they protect you, that are generated by all those stories and limiting beliefs.

[1:04:37] Dayana Pereira: Right, that you've used as protection, but ultimately, in the grander scheme, they're limitations.

[1:04:44] Colin Kirts: Yeah, and we have glimpses. It's not that all the time, but here and there, you have glimpses of the brilliant creature that you are, your grandiosity, your connection to spirit. You have glimpses of your oneness. You have glimpses of this self that is bigger than the little me.

[1:05:01] Dayana Pereira: Sure.

[1:05:02] Colin Kirts: Yeah.

[1:05:02] Dayana Pereira: It's that thing.

[1:05:03] Colin Kirts: So, you have to believe in that.

[1:05:04] Dayana Pereira: Right, but again, that we come back around to it again. It's awareness is one of the keys that unlocks that door.

[1:05:14] Colin Kirts: Yeah.

[1:05:14] Dayana Pereira: Well, Diana mentioned Buddhism, and I was thinking, yeah, there are so many ways that what we're talking about obviously relates to Eastern traditions and Buddhism in a certain sense, and I was just thinking, I think you have to eventually ask yourself if any way you're suffering is necessary or not. Suffering and Buddhism go hand in hand, as does what we're talking about with Atman and little I and ego, et cetera, et cetera, but what we're also now saying is that all of those roots are, well, they're also unnecessary. What we're talking about is not unique. The breath stuff that used to be way up in the Himalayas with the monks and the yogis is now right here down in the valley, so to speak, right here in the dirt and the muck where it's hot and sweaty, and we can take advantage of it and learn.

[1:06:06] Dayana Pereira: And as I was listening to you, too, that part about at what point are you willing to say, I've had enough suffering, or the way I'm suffering has been, it's enough. Is this enough, and am I willing and wanting, and am I deserving, and that's a question, too, to find a different way. And that is really at its core the point, because obviously, people are suffering, and it's unnecessary. And the other part is, the word I just wanted to add is identity. We're talking on a lot of levels about identity, and that's psychology in a very real way. You have the choice to identify with your experiences from day one, from day a thousand on, whatever, and you have the choice to say, I am who I am now. And the point of the work, as we call it, the quote-unquote work, is to catalyze the ability to make that choice and that freedom.

Because, as we've been saying, the identity probably, I'm willing to say, it either limits you or it allows for more possibilities. And I believe, I think we know there's an inherent link between the limiting and the suffering. And language is so imperative to this, and we're talking about self-talk, we're talking about how we relate to our past and our future, etc., whatever the stories are. Look at the way you word it. It's either limiting or it's allowing for possibilities and freedom in whatever context. It's not just about movement, so to speak, except in the sense that movement is life. Absolutely, and all these things work together, all these systems, modalities, whatever you want to call it, whether it's movement, breath work, nervous system. It's all the same.

[1:08:21] Dayana Pereira: We're all stardust. But at the end of the day, when we come back to awareness, awareness, awareness, it allows us to be in the moment. It allows us to tap into and get a glimpse of, I think, that which we truly are, which are these just free-flowing beings. We are human beings, right?

[1:08:47] Colin Kirts: Right, and so there's this possibility that I personally am most excited about, that what if more of us knew that and operated with that awareness? What would be possible on Earth? And you have to be willing to, obviously, and I'm going to be willing to do it, say, the way we are on Earth isn't good enough.

[1:09:04] Dayana Pereira: Sure, I think constant expansion is a wonderful goal to have on a daily basis, without a doubt, and I think if you want to relate it more to the acting in the entertainment world, I mean, imagine if more of us were just a little bit more aware, and if we chose to identify with that which was wonderful about us, that which was powerful and unique about us, I mean, imagine how that would change entertainment, not only just for the masses watching it, but for the suffering that's going on inside of our own community, right? And that's suffering not just the actors, but the people on the other side of the table. They're human, they're suffering as well. They have their own things that they're going through, and I think that we would see a lot less of these sort of Me Too, Time's Up moments happening, right? If we were a little bit more, a lot more aware of that.

[1:10:13] Colin Kirts: So, awareness is key.

[1:10:13] Dayana Pereira: Awareness is key. I really want to thank you both for your time. Thank you. This has been awesome, and I can't wait to get in the ice again.

[1:10:18] Colin Kirts: How about now? I'm going to do it.

[1:10:24] Dayana Pereira: Are you? Yeah, I just got my underwear. Whatever. As long as you don't mind.

[1:10:30] Colin Kirts: Not at all. If you're good.

[1:10:34] Dayana Pereira: Yeah, I'm good. Rock on. All right, let's do it. I'll make it on too. I have 20 minutes until my next client. So, yay. All right. Thank you so much, Justin. This has been a gift, and it's so wonderful to have you as part of our community, and I appreciate the work you're doing in the world and in your community, and you guys listening, just keep it up. There's so much power within you that you just have to just trust and tap into one day at a time. One breath at a time. It's a process.

[1:10:57] Justin Guarini: Yeah. Thank you both very much. Thank you. I love sitting down with Dayana and Colin anytime I get the chance, and what's really fun is that they're right here, both of them, in my town, and Colin's son and my son are best friends, so I get to hang out with Colin all the time, and we just get to shoot the breeze about anything and everything, but we really love to sit and talk about all the stuff that you heard on the podcast in the interview today, and thank you again, as always, for tuning in, checking it out. You can find out more about Feldenkrais and XPT and all the wonderful things that Koru does at wearekoru.com. In the meantime, I am Justin Guarini. Thank you so very much for listening to Audition Secrets.

On next week's show, we have Tony Award winning book writer for Tootsie, Robert Horn. It is a fun, it is probably one of my favorite interviews that I've done because Robert and I go way back. We've worked together before, and he's one of the funniest people I have ever met, and we like to just bust each other's stones, and so you're going to hear a lot of that next week, but for now, again, this is Audition Secrets. I'm Justin Guarini, and remember, you're only one audition away. Thanks for listening.