This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Justin Guarini: I think that's why we rehearse so much, why we take the time to, you know, memorize lines and make decisions and figure out story. It's so that, you know, when the time comes, we can let go. But still, like, for me, it's like hit the jokes, right? Or hit that note. And that's what all that practice is for. It's exercising that muscle and then being able to be like, okay, we can let it go.

[0:31] Justin Guarini: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Audition Secrets, your behind-the-scenes podcast for nailing more auditions, booking more jobs, and having outstanding conversations with some of the industry-leading entertainers in our business. I'm Justin Guarini. Thank you so very much for stopping by. We've got a great guest today for you, Elizabeth Ho, a wonderful actress who's done a ton of television, like Women's Murder Club, Castle, Grey's Anatomy, Two and a Half Men, Melissa & Joey, Bones, NCIS, all of that, but most notably has done one of my favorite shows on Netflix, Disjointed, as well as is doing another Netflix show right now, Stops By, to talk to us about everything from crazy audition stories to mental health to representation as a person of color in this business.

You do not want to miss this conversation. It is fantastic. Right before we get to it, I've got a special announcement. Things have been going so well for this podcast. We joined the Broadway Podcast Network, which is an amazing network of podcasts that are all about theater, all about entertainment, and now, because of my friends Patrick Hines and Jillian Pensavalle over at True Crime Obsessed, I have been inspired to create a Patreon for Audition Secrets. That's right. You can support Audition Secrets and everything that we do by becoming a Patreon member. Your participation as a Patreon member not only supports everything that we do here on the podcast, Audition Secrets, but it gives you the next level access to the Audition Secrets family, and I'm telling you, you're in for such a great time.

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[3:38] Justin Guarini: Before I start this interview, can I say how excited I am to finally be talking to you? I want to say in person, but like sort of as in person as we can get sort of now these days. We first met via the Instagrams, and now we're here in this interview, and I first saw you on your Netflix comedy series Disjointed as Jenny, and I absolutely loved you and the cast. You know, Liz Derfer, lifelong Eagles fan just like me, and I was so enamored by the journey the show took and how you never quite knew what to expect. And by the way, if you, dear listener, haven't seen Disjointed on Netflix, it is brilliant. So please, Elizabeth, let's spill some tea on Disjointed, shall we?

[4:20] Elizabeth Ho: Oh my God, I'm so excited to be here. So excited.

[4:26] Justin Guarini: Yes, I'm excited to have you. Now look, I've been in situations in my life and times where I get to work with titans in the industry, and I definitely can feel intimidated. And Disjointed put you in the same situation with the legendary Kathy Bates. Now I could ask you what she's like and how it was to work with her, and I know she's lovely, and I'm sure she's a tough cookie sometimes and whip smart and very talented. But what I really want to know is what did you learn by watching her or interacting with her?

[5:00] Elizabeth Ho: What a great question, Justin. To answer the previous questions you kind of posited, yes, she is exactly what you think she is. Loving, kind, warm, super professional, knows her shit. We can swear, right?

[5:10] Justin Guarini: Oh, absolutely we can swear, yeah, fuck yeah.

[5:16] Elizabeth Ho: Okay, cool. Because I have a mouth of a sailor. What I learned by watching her was that it only takes, in terms of television and movie, one take. It's not the same as Broadway where you really just have one go about it. You get one show and that's it. But I would watch her, I've watched the Oscar, Tony, Emmy, Golden Globe, name any award, her mess up. And I would think, oh my God, if Kathy Bates can mess up, does that mean I can mess up? And then she would do it until she knew she got it, and then we would move on. And that was the most important thing for me, was realizing, oh, you only need one.

[6:30] Elizabeth Ho: Exactly, that mistakes are natural, and it's human for us to forget our lines, or to not step in the right direction, or to just have the wrong intention, or the rhythm wasn't right. But what you know in your gut when you get it, and the people who surround you, your directors, producers, the people who are lighting you and everything, they know when they have it on their end too. So it's really very much a collaboration, but it only takes one. You just need one good take.

[6:35] Justin Guarini: Sure, and I like to think of that situation kind of like, to use a sports analogy, it's like when they say, a quarterback has made a really shitty play or something like that, and they say, oh, he has a really short memory. And it means like, you don't let those mistakes define the rest of the shoot for you or the rest of the show. And so, for you personally, when you find yourself in those situations, you're like, oh, I screwed something up. How do you let that go?

[7:01] Elizabeth Ho: It was a lifelong journey. It's still a lifelong journey for me. I go through shame and embarrassment first.

[7:09] Justin Guarini: Right, all the stages.

[7:10] Elizabeth Ho: All the stages of grief. It's usually for me, less on the job, more in the audition room, because I feel like the audition room, at least for me, it's the highest of stakes, because it's whether or not you're going to be working. I mean, obviously, at any point, unfortunately, with this job of being a performer, you can be fired at any point. At that point, that's much more out of your control. The audition room really feels like this is your arena. So, I go through shame, and then I try to have a really good recall. So, when I leave the room, I try to remember what I did, how I felt, and what I liked what I did, and what I didn't like what I did. And then I call either my husband or my sister, and I have a little vent session, and then I move on.

I had a family member who would love to rehash my auditions with me. They would ask, and ask, and ask. And it had to come to a point where I had to actually tell them my boundary, which was like, hey, I have to move on, because the more I stick in this place, because I have no power after the point I do my audition, then I can't move on, and then I can't heal, and then I can't be ready and fully present for the next opportunity that might come my way.

[8:34] Justin Guarini: Right. Well, you bring up such an amazing point, because I like to tell my students and people, like, look, the most wonderful thing you could do when you walk out of the audition room is to take the sides, tear them in half, and throw them in the trash. I want to ask you, do you get nervous before you go into auditions?

[8:53] Elizabeth Ho: Yes. Well, I guess it depends. It depends how much pressure I put on myself. So, I love to do the thing of where I research the heck out of any project I go in for. So, I look at, who are the producers? Who's the writer? What have they done before? Who's going to be directing it? The tone of their last projects. That's important for me for my homework.

[9:14] Justin Guarini: Right.

[9:14] Elizabeth Ho: But it can also be to my detriment, because then I go like, well, they did, you know, Hamilton and In the Heights, and like, they had the ability to maybe really change my life, and then I put a lot of pressure on myself.

[9:27] Justin Guarini: Yeah, of course. I mean, that's that story. Yeah, it's all about the story that you walk in with. And if you really have that weight over you, it makes it worse, because I think nerves are like normal. Like, you should be anticipating it. You should feel a little spark or energy. But how do you, if you do all that homework, or when you do all that homework, and when you do put that story on top of yourself, how do you set that aside or overcome that to go in and just be Elizabeth in the room?

[9:58] Elizabeth Ho: Sometimes, if I'm on my game.

[10:00] Justin Guarini: Right.

[10:01] Elizabeth Ho: And that's the thing. I want to be really clear, too. Auditions is a numbers game.

[10:05] Justin Guarini: Right.

[10:05] Elizabeth Ho: Right. So the more you audition, the more opportunities you have to work on your audition skills, but also the more opportunities you have to book a role. So you have to look at it as a numbers game. So even if you mess up like nine out of 10, right, you only need that one audition to book something.

[10:22] Justin Guarini: Right.

[10:23] Elizabeth Ho: So oftentimes, I say hello to everyone in the casting office. I try not to be too crazy. I usually start with a joke about my dumb name, which is Ho, and everyone's like, very uncomfortable saying it.

[10:38] Justin Guarini: Right, of course.

[10:38] Elizabeth Ho: So you just have to break the ice a bit.

[10:40] Justin Guarini: What's your tagline on Instagram? That Ho you know, I think is how you do it.

[10:43] Elizabeth Ho: That Ho you know, yeah.

[10:45] Justin Guarini: I love it.

[10:45] Elizabeth Ho: Because people get very uncomfortable with, A, I'm a person of color, and I'm a woman, and Ho is and can be a slang for sex worker or someone who likes to sleep around.

[10:56] Justin Guarini: Right.

[10:56] Elizabeth Ho: And so it's uncomfortable.

[10:58] Justin Guarini: But you use that to your advantage.

[10:59] Elizabeth Ho: I try to use that to my advantage. If I know them, I'll say, hello, nice to see you again. And then I try to take a moment. And then I look at them and I say, okay, we can go. Whether or not I'm actually ready to go.

[11:54] Justin Guarini: And just show your personality. You're not going in there to get yucks, but you're just being you. And then you take a moment for yourself, and you go. And I tried to do the same thing in my auditions. But like now, like almost everyone has phones. And I went into this audition one time and like the damn thing rang in the middle of the audition. And of course, I sheepishly like an asshole, went over to silence it. And you know, of course, I made a little joke. And then a few minutes later, it happened again. And I was like, it was like one of those phone cases that like, I thought it had silenced it because there's like that little clicker do on the outside. And like, it obviously didn't fucking do it. And so I was dying inside because it was so unintentionally unprofessional. Do you have any sort of like, like audition horror stories or funny stories? Or did something happen to you in a room one time when you were like, okay, this might be the end?

[12:45] Elizabeth Ho: Uh, yes, I have a book of them through the now. It feels like a novel. I think the best one. I think the best one might be like, and it's not just a specific one, but sometimes you'll mess up, you'll mess up on for TV and film auditions, you'll have a couple pages. So if you mess up within the first page, it's okay for you to be like, you know what, let me just start over. You know, let's, let's try this again. I've settled my nerves. So the worst is when I say, you know what, let's start over and do it again. And then I mess up again. And then I'm like, okay, sorry. Again, right here with you. Very present listening. Take a deep breath. And we do it again. And we've been all the way through. I bomb it. Then they're staring at me. I'm staring at them. And it's usually me. And this is what I normally say. I'm like, I'm just going to show myself. Because everyone is so uncomfortable. I'm like, I'm just gonna show myself up. I'm uncomfortable. They're uncomfortable.

[14:10] Elizabeth Ho: And I'm like, Oh, my goodness, she's singing along under breath with me in the audition, because I'm just doing my part. And then we get to the scene. And I intentionally didn't watch the movie Waitress, because I was like, I want to make my own choices. And so I made my own choices. And literally, it was just like, at the end of the audition, like there was this thick silence. And Sarah said, Okay, thanks so much. I felt like I just was like shrinking, and shrinking and shrinking. And I was like, Okay, I'll see you later. Like out of the door. And so have you ever recovered from that? Or are you just like, you know what, I'm gonna cut my losses and leave?

[14:48] Elizabeth Ho: I've always, it's so funny. I very much my nervous system is very much fight or flight. It's something that I'm actually working with a somatic therapist amazing to kind of retrain to be like, not everything is life or death, right? That's a whole other kitten. With that being said, if I finish an audition, I'm usually like, Okay, thanks. Bye. And I want to leave. Right? I will say this, though, I have been chased out of audition rooms. Meaning? Yes, yes. I've left. And I'm like, Okay, bye. Thanks. Never want to see you guys again. Right? That was horrific. Right. And then casting will chase me because I've run so fast to my car. And they want to do it again.

[15:29] Justin Guarini: Really?

[15:30] Elizabeth Ho: Yes. And I think I want to bring that up, too. And like, even when we think that we have bombed it so so badly. Sometimes it's exactly what they were looking for. Or there was like some nugget of what you did, that it was exactly what the character would have done. Right. So it's kind of odd. Most of the time I know if I'm going to book something, I have that like feeling like, yep, did it. And sometimes I feel like I did the worst audition ever. And I book it.

[16:00] Justin Guarini: Yeah. No, no, I've had the same exact experiences. Although my instincts aren't as sharp. I've sometimes like, Yeah, it was great. And then they're like, No, no, thank you.

[16:09] Elizabeth Ho: That happens. That happens, too. But there's so much we don't have control over. Right?

[16:13] Justin Guarini: Of course. Yeah. I mean, it could be your height. It could be, you know, hair color. Like, I wore a red shirt. And like, the producer hates the color red because her ex-husband loved it. You know, subliminally, she didn't know. But she was like, I fucking hate her. And I was like, But she was great. She's like, No.

[16:28] Elizabeth Ho: Exactly.

[16:29] Justin Guarini: You know, like, we have no idea what's really happening in there.

[16:32] Elizabeth Ho: That's a really good point. That's a really, really good point you make. And I think in the throes of doing our homework and making sure that we make very clear choices and character choices and what am I going to wear and all those things that we put on ourselves as performers that we forget that when we walk into the room, A, we're dealing with human beings with flaws, just like our own on the other side of the table. Right? And that there is so much of it that boils down to chemistry, boils down to those intangible things that you're talking about, which have nothing to do with us. We could go in and give the performance, you know, the tour de force. And it's just the fact that we're a little bit too short or too tall or XYZ. And it's crazy.

[17:15] Justin Guarini: And that's why your recall afterwards is really important so that you can feel good about what you did or bad. But, you know, like, you know, for your own marker of your work where you stand.

[17:29] Elizabeth Ho: Yeah. And you said something about feeling you when when you talked about it just a few moments ago. You're like, you know, I think about how I felt in the audition. Why is that such an important part of recall for you?

[17:42] Elizabeth Ho: You know, it's interesting. I when I look back at my childhood, I remember certain events, but I don't remember them picture perfect. I have a friend who can like she'll be like nineteen eighty five. I was two. There was a yellow block. It was midday. You know, she remembers everything. I personally remember things more so in how I felt at the moment. So that's why I think for me, it's an internal gut check, less so than I'd like to be able to recall. And actually, I wanted to ask you because I was talking with some friends. I just wrapped on a new show called Mary Happy Whatever. Also on Netflix. Awesome. Coming in November. Awesome. And we were talking about performance blackout. Now, define performance blackout, because when I think of that, I think of going into the white room, which is like I'm on stage or I'm somewhere and I completely go up on my lines and I'm literally in the white room. I don't know what's up. I don't know what's down. I don't know who I am, where I am or what I'm supposed to say. Now, what do you mean by that?

[18:44] Justin Guarini: OK, no, I mean, like you, you go on stage, you do your performance, you have your scenes, you go off stage and you're like, what just happened? Yes. Oh, my God. Yes, of course. Like I know I performed. I know I did the move. I know I sang the song. Absolutely. It happened to me. And it doesn't happen all the time, but it usually happens the first time. The first time I step into a role in a show or like the first like I will never forget the first live live show where it was the top 10 on American Idol Circa 2002. And I go out and I'm singing Stevie Wonder's "For Once in My Life." And I totally had what you what you call that blackout. Like I remember going out. I remember stepping out. I remember going.

And then I just remember being off stage and the rest of it's kind of these swimmy colors and Simon Cowell. And that's it. Like just just like sort of some guy with an English accent and Paul Abdul and Randy. And that's kind of all I remember. And so why why do you think that that happens?

[19:49] Elizabeth Ho: I, I don't know. I know that for me, with some of the majority of my auditions and a lot of times the first couple takes in work, I do do that. That does happen. Sometimes I feel like that's when I'm in the like it's going to sound real stupid, but here we go for it. It's it's like the most when I'm in the most touch with the divine. Like I'm out of my way. I know the words. We just let go. You know what I mean?

[20:45] Elizabeth Ho: I would go down in the summers with my father and our preacher for this church would say, let go and let God. And I'm not promoting religion or anything like that. But what I'm saying is like there is something to being able to just play and let go of all the things that you're supposed to do. Let go of the fact that there's like 50 different departments who are all looking at you and who all have to make sure that they're in all of that stuff that we put on ourselves. And it's just like to stop acting and start playing. And I think that that happens when I just I play and it's so much fun. And yeah, and I can understand why you like you would totally blackout during moments like that.

[21:24] Justin Guarini: But it just is this thing where you're not thinking, oh, my God, there's this lens and all these people looking at me and I've got to be perfect.

[21:33] Elizabeth Ho: I think as you were talking, the word homework and rehearsal really came to mind for me. I think that's why we rehearse so much, why we take the time to memorize lines and make decisions and figure out story. It's so that when the time comes, we can let go.

[21:52] Justin Guarini: Yeah. But still, like for me, it's like hit the jokes. Oh, of course. Hit that note. Yes. And that's what all that practice is for. It's exercising that muscle and then being able to be like, OK, we can let it go.

[22:06] Elizabeth Ho: Rehearsal is the place to completely screw up. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, the time to try. Yes, that's the time to just go for it. And I say to people, look, there is so much success waiting for you on the other side of the willingness to fall completely flat on your face and screw up. And that is like I'm living proof of that. And I excel mostly at the things I excel at because I'm completely and utterly willing to make an ass out of myself in front of a lot of people in order to discover that moment that works to find that moment.

[22:38] Elizabeth Ho: I really admire that about you. It's something that I've always worked through. I grew up. I mean, I live with depression, anxiety and eating disorder. And so a lot of the way I my I tried to take control of those things is with being perfectionist.

[22:58] Justin Guarini: Yes, of course, control that. No, it's all control. And the beauty of art is letting go. Right. That's really interesting. That keeps on being like the theme for our show. But it's so, so true. Meditation has really helped me because it makes at least it makes me have to clear my mind and not focus on anything but breath. And that's really hard for me to do. Sure. And I think the same thing goes in rehearsal. Sometimes I forget that like what we're doing is trying to discover things together. Yeah. And not to be scared to try something absolutely crazy because worst case scenario, everyone laughs at you or it's just silence. Yeah. And then, you know, not to do it again. Right. And it's like you got the job. It's like unless you do something, you know, a big no, no, they're not going to fire you.

[23:48] Justin Guarini: Before taking a chance, right?

[23:50] Elizabeth Ho: No.

[23:51] Justin Guarini: Yeah. And well, I do want to say that I really appreciate your vulnerability and your candor. And I think that a lot of people listening to this, I hope that a lot of people listening to this who are challenged with the same things that you are challenged with, will see that it is not the end. It is just a part of the process in terms of dealing with and coping and overcoming and learning to live with the challenges that we face physically and mentally. So, you said something about your fight-or-flight system and how you're working with, I believe, a somatic therapist. So, what are the things that you have found for nerves, for that fight-or-flight, for the challenges that you do face every single day in your personal life, not only in your professional life? What have you found has worked? And tell me more about the somatic therapist.

[24:48] Elizabeth Ho: The somatic therapist is basically, they're best known for working with PTSD. It's basically retraining your nervous system to not react the way it's been trained to react, which is to keep you safe. And that not everything has to be that way. You're basically retraining your body. You're reparenting yourself almost. Something that's been very, very helpful for me is a grounding exercise. It's hard though, because when I'm spiraling in anxiety, it's hard for me to be like, oh, this is a spiral of anxiety. I know what I'm going to do. When you're in the storm, you're like, everything's a mess. I don't know what to do. Everything's coming at me. I can't breathe. What's happening? But something that's been really helpful for me that my therapist has worked on me with is grounding, which sounds, again, really juju, but just go with me here.

[25:50] Justin Guarini: Oh, look, you're preaching to the choir. Go on.

[25:53] Elizabeth Ho: You put your feet on the ground. If you're barefoot, even better. You take a deep breath and you try to find resource in your body. Where do you feel safe in your body? The other day, I was freaking out and I was like, where do I find resource? I found resource in my hands. I just learned how to crochet. I was like, oh, I can make things with my hands. That's so cool. So then the idea is, what if, can you let that feeling slowly grow through your body? If you can't, that's also okay. Take a slow look around the room. Is there something that is pleasing to your eye? Maybe like the way the light hits a tree or you're looking at your kid or your dog. What about that is pleasing? Can you stay in that moment of seeing that for what it is and taking time to appreciate it? And then by that time, my heart rate slowed down and we're okay.

[26:51] Justin Guarini: That's beautiful. I love that. I mean, I think of that exercise kind of like the, you know, there's the lifeline in the blizzard, right? That rope that everyone hangs onto that is leading somewhere out of the blizzard, leading out of the storm. And I think that's so, so wonderful. And thank you so much for sharing that because it's a really simple exercise and it focuses on gratitude and it focuses on strength. And it comes from you. You are the lifeline for yourself. Because sometimes I think we forget that we are strong, beautiful beings. Especially since we are performers, oftentimes we're thought of as being on the bottom rung of the ladder, right? But we do have something to contribute and to give.

And that these shows and productions can't go on without us. That's really, really beautiful. What I loved about your character in Disjointed, Jenny, came from a very traditional Asian family with all the stereotypes, right? Yet in her journey throughout the show, she fights against all the things she should be doing, aka like her mother wanting her to be a doctor and most likely marry a good Asian boy, all that stuff. And she does that in order to carve her own path. But do you ever stop to think about how, because of the success you have, that you have got the opportunity to change the narrative about Asian actors? And does that inform any of the characters that you play?

[28:22] Elizabeth Ho: That's some deep stuff. Okay. Let me start with saying when I first met my team, so my agents and managers, I was really, really young. I was fresh out of college. And I remember thinking, any audition is a good audition. I will say yes to everything. I had my Shonda Rhimes year, right? But I started to notice that the projects or the auditions, I would say yes to that. I would be like, I'd get a bad feeling about. I started saying no to. And then there came a time where I had to talk to my team and be like, look, I can't take roles that perpetuate a negative stereotype about Asian Americans or Asian people or are sexist and demeaning to women or promote violence. I think I had to be around like 22.

I say, yes, I go out on auditions. I still probably shouldn't go out on because my gut says no. However, you also have to look at how much money will I make? Will this help my family pay for whatever we need to cover? Like there is that cost benefit analysis that has to go on. But yeah, very early on, I was very acutely aware of what I wanted to do and what I wasn't willing to do.

[29:50] Elizabeth Ho: I've seen the industry change a lot in how they cast and write for Asian Americans. It's still not anywhere near what I'd like the representation to be. I mean, the film that just came out once upon a time in Hollywood, they had Bruce Lee in it and he was I haven't seen it, so I can't speak to it. But I do know that his daughter watched it and she felt that the representation of Bruce Lee was for one of laughs and demeaned him. And this is a major blockbuster that had a huge opening weekend. And Quentin Tarantino had the opportunity to not choose to show Bruce Lee in that light. And yet he did. He showed him in a martial arts fighting, very prideful, a lot of stereotypes being shown, which for me, it just shows how much further we have to go and how representation isn't just in front of the camera, but also behind the camera in terms of writers, producers and directors.

And I'm really excited that more women of color and different sexuality and gender types are coming out to direct, produce and write and are being given those opportunities. Is it enough? No. But is it getting better? Yes.

[31:11] Justin Guarini: Hey family, I wanted to take a real quick break to let you know that I totally forgot to tell you something about my new Patreon group. There are a limited number of slots available at the $5 and the $10 level. I am keeping it so small and making sure that because you are here, because you are a founding listener of this podcast, because you are with me, that you get the chance to get in the door first. And for the cheapest, the prices are going to go up in about a week. But right now there are limited slots of $5 and $10 supporter levels available for you, my founding members. So make sure you go over to patreon.com forward slash audition secrets. That's patreon.com forward slash audition secrets to snag your spot before it's gone and prices go up. All right, back to the show.

[32:04] Elizabeth Ho: My mom was actually a Broadway dancer and actress. She opened a chorus line in London, was there for the Oliviers, was national dance captain for hair. So I grew up in a very creative household. My dad is an orthopedic surgeon. Um, you know, I was always encouraged to perform. I always felt like and I'm sure many of your listeners can identify like an outsider. I went to a very, very small private school. My graduating class for high school was 60 people. And so you know, when you're put in a situation like that, there's not a lot of opportunity to really find your group. I was lucky I had a really good friend. But it wasn't until college that I was able to take the time to dig into who I really was.

Part of that was, I went to USC. You said business, right? I studied business because I was so scared of what my dad and my grandma who is helping to pay for my college would do. My mom and I were genuinely like worried that they would pull my college funding if I went into theater. That didn't happen.

[33:19] Justin Guarini: Yeah, no.

[33:19] Elizabeth Ho: You know what I mean?

[33:20] Justin Guarini: And that's so interesting, because even though your mom was on Broadway and could be an advocate for you for the fact that yes, you can have success in this, you still had to worry. And so when it came down to it, coming to make the choice, okay, I'm going to switch from business to theater. How'd you pull it off?

[33:41] Elizabeth Ho: Well, it's a complicated story, but it's full of falling flat on your face. So I feel like this is appropriate. I booked a show down at Disneyland. I'm a huge Disneyland lover, has been since I was a little kid. And I booked, there was a Aladdin live musical spectacular and I booked Jasmine. And I was like, this is it. I've made it. Say no more. Goodbye. I took a year off of school. I was like, all right. Hello, Hollywood. Like stars in my eyes. Okay, here we go. Made it through the rehearsal process, moved down to Orange County, got fired the week before we opened.

[34:20] Justin Guarini: What? Why?

[34:23] Elizabeth Ho: In retrospect, it was the best thing that could have happened to me at that time. It was horrible. To be honest, I just don't think I was prepared enough. I think I was too young. I think metaphysically, I don't think my voice could have lasted for the amount of shows they wanted us to do.

[34:40] Justin Guarini: Oh, because they'll work you half to death.

[34:42] Elizabeth Ho: Yeah. And they're a weird union. They're AGVA. So yeah.

[34:48] Justin Guarini: It's its own universe. Yeah.

[34:50] Elizabeth Ho: Yeah. AGVA does, what is it? Theme parks, cruise ships, and strippers. So-

[34:55] Justin Guarini: Don't extrapolate from that what you will.

[34:58] Elizabeth Ho: But you know, everyone needs a union in this world.

[35:02] Justin Guarini: Sure. Hey, look, I'm telling you, a girl's got to eat.

[35:05] Elizabeth Ho: Yeah, that's right.

[35:05] Justin Guarini: So go on.

[35:06] Elizabeth Ho: But I get fired and I think this is it. I'm done. This is like, I'm done. I go into a deep depression. My eating disorder flares up all the way. And then I decide to go back to USC. And I remember marching into the theater department and being like, this is it. I'm just going to do this because the people that I saw at that show who had had longevity in their careers, meaning, and you know, now that I'm older and looking back, did they? You know, they had a couple guest stars and had been working for 10 years. That is longevity. Sure.

[35:44] Elizabeth Ho: I need personally that kind of training, so I went and I marched into the theater department. Back then it was me signing a slip of paper and that was it. Now there's a whole audition process. I skirted in, no one knowing. Thank goodness that you did. I am so grateful. I found lifelong friends, a community that I'm so grateful to be a part of, and they really helped set me up for the career and the life that I have today.

[36:17] Justin Guarini: That's wonderful. Now, what's one thing that you, you know, speaking of all these experiences that you've had, what's one thing that you know now that you would go back and tell yourself when you were starting out?

[36:28] Elizabeth Ho: Man, you were just hitting me with these great questions. I wish I had known that I was good enough just as is. I feel like I spent a lot of time, and I still do from time to time, thinking I'm not good enough. I'm not funny enough. I'm not thin enough. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not young enough. I'm not white. I'm not, you know, like all those things. And I really enjoy seeing the younger generation of performers now on social media really being like, "This is who I am. This is it, and I love it, and I'm here." I wish that I could have had that confidence earlier on in my career. It would have saved a lot of heartache. It would solve so many of the problems or at least alleviate so much of the pain if we could really truly just say, "I am good enough as I am."

And yes, there are things that I need to work on, but the things that I either don't do as well as I would like or whatever story you want to tell yourself do not define me. My failures do not define me just as much as my successes do not define me.

[37:44] Elizabeth Ho: Yes, I was working with my talk therapist Amanda about this because it really came to me. I'm choosing not to have kids. It's just something I don't think is in the cards for me, but it took a long time for me to untangle if I wanted to have kids because I wanted them or because society wanted them. And I want to kind of parallel that to we recently were talking, and I was like, "Well, in this society, I feel as though a person's worth is defined by their career, what they've done, the kids they have, the house they have, the possessions they have." And my therapist challenged me and was like, "What if you were just a good person and that was enough?" And that really leads me to the thought of the questions we ask ourselves.

You know, it's like if we can learn to ask ourselves better questions, we're gonna get better answers, and better answers lead to better actions, and better actions lead to better outcomes, and better outcomes lead to better stories that we tell ourselves. And the better stories we have that we tell ourselves, that leads to better beliefs that we have.

[39:01] Justin Guarini: That was such a good list that you built. I'm really proud of you.

[39:05] Elizabeth Ho: I would love to say that's the first time I've said that, but it's not. And it really is true. Those questions, those questions that we ask ourselves really lead to along that path, that list that I said lead to the beliefs that we create around ourselves. And so what if I was good enough is an amazing question to add that might be one of those things that you write on your mirror and just ask yourself every single morning.

[39:31] Justin Guarini: That's funny. The post-it I have on my mirror is from when the Cubs won the World Series. I'm not a Cubby fan. I'm an Oakland A's lady, but it was one of those like, "If the Cubs can do it," and I was like, "You're right, if the Cubs can do it, I can do it, right?"

[39:50] Elizabeth Ho: Exactly, exactly. Okay, so I got a couple more questions for you. What is the best piece of advice you've ever gotten about this business?

[40:01] Elizabeth Ho: Take care of your mental health. Whether that is for me seeing a therapist, for others it's meditation or working out, going to the beach, having an artist date. You have to take care of your mental health because this business is like a succubus; it'll just drain your beautiful soul out of you, and you have to learn to take care of it. Yeah, that and boundaries—having clear boundaries about when you work, when you don't work. My husband Ira is a very good man. He's always been super supportive. He comes from a theater background as well, and he coaches me when he can. A lot of it comes down to knowing how much I can prepare and how much I need either him or someone else to help me with.

[40:59] Elizabeth Ho: And then for him, sometimes he works from home, sometimes he doesn't. It's respecting his time, and that just comes down to communication for the two of us. And that's been built over so many years.

[41:06] Justin Guarini: So many years.

[41:06] Elizabeth Ho: But it really does come down to, at least in our household, clean communication—what I need to be successful in my job, what he needs to be successful in terms of his job, because again, he also works from home from time to time and respecting that space. And sometimes it's hard because you're like, "I just found this hilarious meme. I need to show it," like, "No." Yeah, he's writing. I need to respect that time.

[41:29] Justin Guarini: Yeah, no, I understand. My wife is a writer, and you know, it's like when you have two artists in the house, it is a challenge because we're on like opposite schedules right now. She will write late into the night, and I will, you know, be up super early. And so it's like you said, it is finding that communication. At the end of the day, you know, coming back around to what we've been talking about, it's that grounding.

[41:56] Elizabeth Ho: I have a question because I do not have children. How do you do this? How do you maintain that balance with kids, especially over like summer break?

[42:00] Justin Guarini: Yeah, it's challenging. It is extremely challenging. I mean, just the day-to-day. Unfortunately, my children are—my stepdaughter's 14, my middle son is 8, and my youngest son is 6—and the sort of getting up at 5 o'clock like, "Hey, Dad, let's play," like it's kind of over, right? All that because that was really hard. Like, you know, I love my wife and my kids, and I love to be around them so much that when I was in Wicked and doing that show eight shows a week, I would commute back and forth between New York and my home in Pennsylvania.

[42:36] Elizabeth Ho: Wow.

[42:38] Justin Guarini: And it was five hours round trip. Yeah. And so I would go to bed at like 2:33 o'clock after I just got into my space, and then boom, five o'clock, kids are up, and I'm up with them. And it's just like, it is nuts. But I think at the end of the day, boundaries are so, so very important, and maintaining your own space and allowing people to come into that space. But when it is time for you to be solitary, a time for you to fill up your own cup, whether that be through your work, through meditation, through somatic body work, whatever it is, to take that time to take care of yourself. Because if you don't have a full cup or at least a half-full cup, then how are you going to be able to give to everyone else, not to mention your own work?

[43:21] Elizabeth Ho: You're such a great example to your kids on how to take care of yourself.

[43:25] Justin Guarini: No, seriously, like they're watching you, you know.

[43:29] Elizabeth Ho: Yeah, and they're seeing both their mom and their dad be like, "You know, this is healthy, and taking care of myself to take care of family is very healthy and important." I think that's awesome.

[43:41] Justin Guarini: It is. Well, thank you very much. I think you're awesome. So tell me, you have the show coming out on Netflix now, right? What's that show?

[43:49] Elizabeth Ho: November, rather. Yeah, Mary Happy, Whatever. It's starring Dennis Quaid and Ashley Tisdale, Bridget Mendler, and Brett Morin, Adam Rose, Siobhan Murphy. It's so fun. It's about a family in Philly.

[44:03] Justin Guarini: Oh, hey, I know Eagles fans.

[44:07] Elizabeth Ho: The matriarch has passed on, so it's Dennis Quaid and his big extended family, lots of siblings. Bridget plays a woman who is coming home with her new boyfriend and introducing him to the family for the first time over Christmas break, and he wants to propose to her, and mayhem and fun times ensue.

[44:31] Justin Guarini: Awesome, I can't wait to see it when it comes out in November. So tell my listeners where can they follow you and find out more about you and just, you know, hang out with you on the interwebs?

[44:40] Elizabeth Ho: So sweet of you. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at real Elizabeth Ho. Don't follow that fake other one.

[44:46] Justin Guarini: No fake.

[44:51] Elizabeth Ho: Oh, there's no fake house. But you know, if you're a fake, oh, you do you. I'm not gonna shade, but that's not where you're gonna find me. And it's a good time on the internet. It really is also like the worst place, but look, your corner of the internet is lovely, and we get to see pictures of you on houseboats and in work and doing all kinds of really fun stuff.

[45:13] Elizabeth Ho: So it's been a good summer for me. Are you still accepting private coaching?

[45:18] Elizabeth Ho: Yes, if you go to auditionsecrets.com, I actually do private coaching for sure.

[45:26] Justin Guarini: That's so cool.

[45:27] Elizabeth Ho: Yeah, I love it. It's been a lot of fun, and what I love is that, you know, people can do it from the comfort of their own home. We do it online, and it's like I love performing, and I get to do so much fun stuff, but just watching the light bulb go on over a student's head and, like you said, in that rehearsal process, in that safe space that we create or we can create for ourselves in the rehearsal process, it's just like anything is possible.

[45:41] Justin Guarini: Your students are lucky to have you.

[45:54] Elizabeth Ho: Well, thank you very much. I'm lucky to have you on this podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. I can't wait to just meet you in person and give you a big hug.

[46:05] Justin Guarini: Yes, like this is the pen pal version, you know, the 2019 pen pal version of when we were growing up.

[46:11] Elizabeth Ho: I know, exactly. Cheers. Well, thank you so much, Justin, and everyone go check out his website.

[46:18] Justin Guarini: You're the best. I should—should you do publicity?

[46:24] Elizabeth Ho: You know, Elizabeth and I became friends on Instagram, and of course, it was because I was such a huge fan of the show that she was in, Disjointed, on Netflix. And we talk every once in a while on Instagram, but I am so glad that she came and she stopped by. She really is such a wonderful, warm, kind, funny individual and talented as hell, if you don't mind me saying so. And I'm so glad that we got to talk about everything that we got to talk about.

[46:49] Justin Guarini: Hey, thank you so very much for listening all the way to the end of the podcast. You know, it's like some, like, 30-some odd percent of people actually make it to the end of the podcast, so you are in rare air, my friend. Thank you very much for being a part of Audition Secrets and for stopping by.

[47:06] Justin Guarini: Hey, remember, if you want to be a part of the new Patreon family, all you have to do is go to patreon.com forward slash audition secrets to secure your spot today. They are gonna go fast, so get over there. In the meantime, I'm Justin Guarini. You have been listening to Audition Secrets, the podcast, and remember, as always, at the end of the day, you're one audition away. Thanks for listening.