This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ilana Levine: Regardless of what my body was doing, it would not affect my ability to do what I wanted to do in the room. And in fact, all of that energy, that fight or flight energy, some people call it nervous energy, whatever you want to call it, was all just part of the experience. And that when I learned to not try to stop it or separate myself from it or ignore it, all of it just became part of me.

[0:34] Justin Guarini: Welcome to another episode of Audition Secrets. I'm Justin Guarini, and thank you for listening to the Behind the Scenes podcast, for nailing more auditions, booking more jobs, and having wonderful conversations with some of the most outstanding people in our business, the movers, the shakers, the people who have been where you have been and who are where you want to be. And we get to talk to them. And today, I've got a great show for you. Ilana Levine joins us on the podcast, and she is absolutely wonderful. If you don't know who she is, let me tell you. As an actress, she has performed on stage and screen to critical acclaim on Broadway. Ilana is best known to musical theater fans for her comedic turn as Lucy Van Pelt in the Broadway revival of Your Good Man, Charlie Brown.

She's also starred in the Broadway productions of Jake's Women, Wrong Mountain, and The Last Night of Ballyhoo. She's done a slew of TV, starting with HBO's Tanner in 1988, directed by Robert Altman. Law and Order, but of course, Tanner on Tanner, Damage is the Job, Kashmir Mafia. It goes on and on and on. But she also has a phenomenal podcast called Little Known Facts with Ilana Levine, and it's a weekly podcast with over 150 interviews to date with some of the most successful artists you can imagine, huge names, celebrity guests that she engages with in intimate conversations that are hilarious, vulnerable, revealing, and inspiring. She is absolutely wonderful. Let's get right to it. Here is my interview with Ilana Levine.

[2:00] Justin Guarini: Ilana, not only are you an accomplished actor in your own right, but you also have a phenomenal podcast called Little Known Facts. You've had some pretty impressive guests on there, let me say.

[2:11] Ilana Levine: Well, one of the really nice things about doing the same thing for a long time is the collection of people that you make along the way. There are times where I wish I were 20 again, but when I think of all the incredible people in my life who wouldn't be there yet if I hadn't done this for decades at this point, and they've all been kind enough, my podcast is basically me going through cast after cast after cast and asking those friends to show up, and they so sweetly have. I think it went John Slattery, Cynthia Nixon, B.D. Wong, something like that. Yeah. Okay. What made you decide to start the pod in 2016?

[2:58] Ilana Levine: As so many things in my life have happened, because someone who had faith in me, maybe beyond in ways I hadn't even had in myself yet, came to me with an opportunity, to be quite honest, they had started their own podcast company. Forgive me, Justin, I'm in New York City, and I'm going to close my window.

[3:20] Justin Guarini: Oh, it's okay. This is the experience. Thank you very much.

[3:25] Ilana Levine: Guys, that is a fairway food delivery truck going by. Okay. Sorry, y'all. My listeners in New York will certainly understand, for sure.

[3:34] Justin Guarini: Exactly, and your listeners all over the world will be like, hey, I'm having an urban podcast experience.

[3:39] Ilana Levine: Right, exactly. A friend of mine who I've worked with in all sorts of ways, he's actually a film director, and I've been in a couple of his films, had a friend who was starting a company where they were producing podcasts, and he's like, this is, I don't know, I just think you'd be great at it. Is it something you'd want to try? And I really thought about it, because my instinct is always to wait until I feel like I have all the pieces to the puzzle before jumping in. And I thought, there is something about how I approach a character as an actress, which is very much the kind of research I would do in approaching an interview. And then I thought about, in the world of writing, they say, write what you know, and then I use that same theme. And I thought, well, who do I know? And who do I know that would be interesting to people other than me? And I thought, my entire community of friends.

[4:37] Justin Guarini: Absolutely.

[4:38] Ilana Levine: So that's how it began. And then Slattery, Cynthia was in the first TV show I ever did, Slattery, you know, and I met when we first started doing plays on Broadway, I actually introduced him to his wife, Talia Balsam, and that's worked out.

[4:51] Justin Guarini: That's good. It's always a challenge.

[4:54] Ilana Levine: It's like he still came on the show. B.D. Wong was my Linus to my Lucy in Charlie Brown. So really, I have had the privilege of being in dressing rooms with all these people and getting them and knowing them in a really intimate way. And I thought when I started out, I wished I had access to the kinds of real stories to what it really is to pursue a life in the arts, not the kind of airbrushed PR version of it. And that even with all that, it's still worth it. And that's how it came together. That's how the idea of what the show would be, you know, kind of came together. It took a while for me to feel confident in it. But it's been like 160 episodes later, and I feel like I'm getting the hang of it.

[5:42] Justin Guarini: What do you think are some of the things that people who are thinking, okay, I'm considering starting my own podcast, what are the pitfalls that they should avoid that you fell into?

[5:53] Ilana Levine: Oh, that's such a good question. I mean, I think that for me, the biggest challenge is that I wasn't a technology person. But the thing I knew I could do is talk to someone and dive deep into their lives and sort of what their story was. But there's all the other stuff that goes around, you know, the making of the podcast. And that was really intimidating for me. And I would say, in terms of the things that you don't do well, automatically, just ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help. It's a good life lesson for me in general, but specifically around that. The other thing I would say is make sure that you are being authentic in terms of the topic you choose to podcast about, that you're not trying to find a niche or some idea of what you think will be popular.

But really that whatever story you want to tell, or whatever it is that you're interested in, the end result is impossible to know. Like everything else, it'll either hit or won't hit, or you'll continue doing it, or you won't, or a million things can happen. But if it comes from the heart, and your authentic self, then no matter what happens in the end, you've made something that you're proud of, and with integrity, and that you're proud of sharing. And it lives forever. So whether or not someone finds it immediately, or it takes longer, it's kind of a slow burn in terms of it making its way into people's, you know, daily listening realities, that it really has to be authentic. And practice.

It's like anything else. If you're asking someone to listen, or be an audience to what you're doing, make sure that it's ready. Even in the three years since I started, I cannot believe how many more podcasts there are. So it's a very vibrant, full community right now. So just make sure it's about what you love.

[8:00] Justin Guarini: What I want to know from you is, what's your origin story? What was the moment where you said, I want to be an actor, or you fell in love with performance, or something hit you that directed your life into this business?

[8:17] Ilana Levine: You know, most things in my life that have been long lasting really began with what I thought was love, whether it turned into long term love, or a momentary crush. The feeling is just as real and big. And when I was 18 years old, I was not a child actress. I was someone who had the great fortune of living close to New York City. And I was a child of a woman who loved Broadway so much. And so my mom brought us to see Broadway shows all the time. And it was really any excuse to celebrate with a Broadway show we used. It could have been like, you lost your tooth, you got a good report card, your birthday, like really anything. And so very early on, I was turned on to the magic and beauty and transformative world that is the Broadway musical. That was her love. Later on, I started to see more plays, but I certainly was raised on seeing musicals.

[9:22] Justin Guarini: You remember what your first musical was?

[9:24] Ilana Levine: Annie. Annie was my first musical. And to see kids my age on stage, it was sort of mind blowing, the whole thing. I had never even considered the possibility that my peers would be doing something like that. But yeah, and I sang it. I have the record and still have it, and gave it to my daughter, who went to see the more recent revival of it. And it's very exciting when you come full circle with your kids around something that meant so much to you as a kid. But all that being said, I wasn't an actress. It wasn't something I did. It was just something I loved and appreciated deeply. When I was just starting in between high school and college, I literally was getting a haircut in my town of Teaneck, New Jersey.

And at the station of this beautiful guy who was cutting my hair, there was a Samuel French edition of a play. And until that time, I had seen plays and collected works and anthologies that we studied in high school. But I'd never seen a Samuel French play, where it's just one play. And I asked him what it was. And he told me he was taking an acting class in New York City. And I think, to be honest, I was being flirty. And I picked up the play and just started reading it out loud. And he was, you know, instead of like, you know, the Seventeen magazine. And he was like, you're good. I was like, thank you, Bruno. Bruno Rondinelli, who still has an extraordinary salon in Teaneck, New Jersey. He told me that coincidentally, that night in New York City at the Terry Schreiber studios where he studied, you could audit.

They did like one Wednesday night a month, you could audit a class for free. And he invited me to go with him. And I went and I entered a room where they happen to be doing sense memory exercises. I've never been in an acting class, I had no idea what was going on. And I remember, one woman was acting out this entire scene, where she came home from work, got out of her work clothes into her like hanging out on the couch clothes, went to her refrigerator, moved everything around. And from the back of the fridge was a baby bottle. And she sat down on her couch and you know, mimes turning on television, and starts drinking out of the baby bottle. Now, this is like, if you imagine someone sharing, I mean, we all have idiosyncratic behaviors, tendencies, things that are really secret.

And the idea that someone would show something like that in front of a group of people, and the way she did it was extraordinary. But beyond that, the safety of that room, the way the teacher kind of coached her through the moment to moment work in doing that exercise. I'm freaking out, right? I'm like, there's a grown lady drinking out of a baby bottle. I'm about to go to college for like, advertising, like whatever, I don't know what I'm going to do. But beyond the like, amazing vulnerability, and brilliance of what this woman revealed in this exercise, and how vulnerable she made herself was the way in which everyone responded and talked about what she did, with the most beautiful respect, non-judgment.

And that was just one of like, six or seven of those things that went on that night. I didn't know what it was, I didn't know where I would fit into this world. But I knew that I wanted to be around people who felt so safe to be their true selves as, as, you know, wild or simple as that would be on any given day. And to be in a community of people who held them up with.

[13:35] Ilana Levine: And that was the beginning. And then I ended up changing majors and changing colleges, and then I got a TV series very quickly after college. I had a lot of luck at the beginning. But Bruno taking me to Terry Shriver Studios and that teacher, her name was Gloria Maddox, and she became my first beloved teacher in this new world before I knew it would become a profession ever, just a place where I wanted to be.

[14:05] Justin Guarini: Yeah, well, thank you very much to Bruno for—

[14:07] Ilana Levine: Yeah, for the haircut, great haircut, great life. So I'm gonna share a secret with you that I've literally never told anyone, but it just popped into my head right now, which is when I joined that class, as weeks went by, it was my turn to bring in, it wasn't called a sense memory exercise, I'm sorry, it was a private moment exercise. There's all these names, right, of different things. And obviously, sense memory is part of it, but you had to bring in a private moment. And I kept avoiding it, and so months went by, actually, until it was really time for me to do mine for this class. I ended up doing scene study and all these other things, but this was private moment. And I didn't feel like I had one that was good enough, because the first one I had seen, which I just described to you, what am I gonna bring in that would kind of be revealing and kind of mind-blowing in that way?

And I sort of ended up fibbing a little bit. I had once fallen off a horse, but it was a complete non-event. Maybe it was a pony, like really. Just a little tuck and roll and you're fine, right? Exactly, it wasn't like, wow, how do I get back on the horse? What do I do? I was not an equestrian who had some major accident. But I ended up doing this thing where it was about falling off a horse and having something major happen afterwards. And what was really fascinating, and what I learned at that moment about reality and fantasy is that as the teacher kind of, it's like doing a guided meditation. So you're sort of being guided through the story with a coach. And what ended up happening is halfway through the kind of mild minor event from my own life, and the imagined event that I was creating because I wanted to impress the class and have something like major happen to me, I started believing it.

And the act of doing it, the act of going through the telling of this story, by the end, it was real for me. The emotion was real, the physical feelings were real, the tears were real, the fear, all of it. And in a weird way, what I learned is that that very thing came in very handy when I was doing someone else's story and someone else's work. I would not have a parallel experience to every single character that I would play where I would be able to find a personal moment or tragedy or triumph or sense memory or any of it that would mirror the life of the character I was playing. But if I could find a kernel of something in my life that was true, and then build on it with my imagination and fantasy with an openness and breathing, remaining a breathing living being during it, I could get to the same place, even if it wasn't my reality. And so in a weird way, by making something up, because I didn't want to seem lame, and like a girl from the suburbs with kind of a really good life, I learned a lot about acting in a strange way.

[17:37] Justin Guarini: In the audition room, I talk a lot about preparing, I talk a lot about what to do before you get there, what to do inside the audition room, and what to do when you leave the audition room. That's the meat and potatoes of Audition Secrets. But as someone who has gone into many an audition room, whether it be for stage or for television, what is, when you first started out, what's one of the biggest mistakes you remember making most frequently?

[18:05] Ilana Levine: Wow, you know, it's so funny, because I thought so much about auditioning, because I'd been doing it for 25 years or more at this point. And I realized early on, you know, the whole fight or flight concept that happens to our bodies, this thing where, you know, the amygdala in your brain doesn't understand, like, you're just going to an audition, you're not being chased by a bear. But your body has no idea. It feels exactly the same. The message is that your brain is sending your body in sort of the way in which your heart starts pounding and your palms may start sweating or whatever happens to you, even if you could not be more prepared if you tried. I realized early on that for me, two things were true.

I loved performing, but my body didn't understand that. My body did not know that I loved performing, even in an audition situation. So I've had to come to terms with the fact that whether it's like an audition for a commercial, which is not something that would feel as important to me as, you know, a Broadway show, in terms of the long-term personal goals I have of creating art, my body would be reacting the same exact way. Like, my legs would get heavy and wouldn't want to walk into the room and cross the threshold. So I guess I learned to embrace that part of my process is that my body rebels against the very idea of having to go in an audition and that I just have to take it in with me. And I do all sorts of things like talk to myself in the third person and say, you know what, Alana, just go in, do the thing.

You're gonna be done in like 15 minutes. If you're longer in the room, that means it's going great, so good news. And just really talk myself through it and go, you know what, your brain, your body doesn't understand that this is actually something you love. And so I just learned that regardless of what my body was doing, it would not affect my ability to do what I wanted to do in the room. And in fact, all of that energy, that fight or flight energy, some people call it nervous energy, whatever you wanna call it, was all just part of the experience. And that when I learned to not try to stop it or separate myself from it or ignore it, all of it just became part of me. And once I embraced it and accepted that like, this is what happens to Alana when she goes to an audition, and I would get jobs and not get jobs and my body was doing the same thing. So I stopped worrying about it being a thing that could get in my way.

[21:08] Ilana Levine: I did discover, and I think maybe Slattery and I talked about it. I can't remember in my episode. There was a while where someone told me about beta blockers. They were very popular and are popular for people who do public speaking, who are not artists and just the idea of getting up in front of a large crowd. And there were a few pilot seasons in LA where I was like, you know what? I am tired of feeling like this. I was auditioning six times a day. Like you're just doing a million of them. It's gotta be exhausting. I mean, the auditioning alone is exhausting and then doing it with this fight or flight syndrome happening. Yes, I can't do it with like a feeling like, is there a robber, an intruder, a bear? Like what's happening? My body freaking out. And so I have to say like, I tried that. And in the end, sometimes I booked the gig and sometimes I didn't. Again, nothing became like this. There's no, you know.

[22:09] Justin Guarini: Magic bullet.

[22:09] Ilana Levine: No, I was so like freaked out that I was taking a drug of any kind.

[22:15] Justin Guarini: Well, let's talk about that because I've always heard about it.

[22:18] Ilana Levine: I've always heard about beta blockers.

[22:19] Justin Guarini: Have you ever done it?

[22:20] Ilana Levine: No, have you ever done it?

[22:21] Justin Guarini: It's like, have you ever done it? Are you experienced? Have you ever done it?

[22:24] Ilana Levine: I'm on a beta blocker right now.

[22:26] Justin Guarini: Oh my God, that's great. Look, but I wanna know what it feels like because I've heard like you feel the feelings of fear but they don't affect your body. So when you take, when you, Ilana take a, yes, take one. What does it feel like for you in comparison?

[22:42] Ilana Levine: Well, for me, Ilana Levine, A, it became like this kind of fun distraction. Like, oh wait, do I feel it yet? Wait, is that it? Is that the, is that the beta blocker? Am I being blocked? Are my betas being blocked? Am I blocked? Exactly. You know, it was really, it really worked. I mean, all of those things I had to figure out. Like I literally, like, if you saw it, you'd laugh. You'd be like, Ilana, I don't know if that counts as actually even taking a quarter of a beta blocker because you couldn't even see it with a microscope. Like I was so nervous about, and I tried it out. I tested myself on it, not at an audition, just to kind of like, like guys for anything, like whether you're doing a podcast or taking a beta blocker, try it once with a friend.

Like don't. So I took a very minuscule amount knowing that I am someone, I'll have like two sips of wine and people are like, well, what's up with Levine? Right, cheap date, cheap date. I'm like, just my physiology is just, it's so sensitive. It was fantastic. It was fantastic. It did all the things. You know, I think it was a drug created for people with heart conditions, like to keep your heart rate really slow, normal, not slow.

[24:00] Justin Guarini: So it doesn't.

[24:02] Ilana Levine: So when you say it did all the things, you didn't feel that fight or flight. You didn't feel the heart racing, your palms weren't sweating, all of the nerves. So what did you feel instead?

[24:11] Ilana Levine: Just a sense of like, calm, okay, I got this. Yes, but for me, that's not how, that was so weird. Like how am I don't, like it felt too casual.

[24:23] Justin Guarini: Yeah, well, you had already accepted the fact.

[24:25] Ilana Levine: That what I do is I'm a wreck.

[24:27] Justin Guarini: Right, and there's energy and power in that if you own that story, right?

[24:30] Ilana Levine: Yeah, I'm a wreck and I just got a Broadway show. Like literally, like, right. So it was almost like, am I in a room right now with some television executives? Is this happening? But it was, what it was was, what was great is I feel like I still was able to do the thing that I do. But I also learned that for me, I like feeling alive in the way that I do when my body is on fire in the way that it can be in a room and that I'm okay with that. But given the two choices, I don't wanna be one bit numb. Like what I'm going through is what I'm going through and I'm seasoned enough to now know how to work with all the things that happen to me and do the work at the same time. So, but it was an interesting experiment and there was definitely something about it, as I said, especially when I was really like going through the television screen test, all of that many times a day. And then I thought, wait, I'm testing for all this stuff without it. Like, we're good, we're good.

[25:50] Justin Guarini: If you are someone who auditions, you're someone who goes into the room or goes on stage and performs, then you need to get the book, Audition Secrets Volume 1. It is the behind the scenes guidebook for nailing more auditions and booking more jobs. And the best part about all of it is it's absolutely free to you if you go to auditionsecrets.com and hit the tab that says free book. It's a digital download. You can have instant access to it today. So after this interview, go to auditionsecrets.com and get your copy.

[26:24] Ilana Levine: And I had a couple of podcasts ago, I had two people who are, they do Feldenkrais body work and the stuff called XPT, which really deals with breath work and body, a lot of ice baths and things like that. And one of the things that one of the practitioners said is it's so powerful is that she talks to herself just like you, just like me, in the third person. And it's one thing to say, you know, I got this, I'm gonna go in there, I'm gonna do it. It's good. But there's something about our bodies and our minds and for some reason, we respond better to outside authority.

[27:05] Justin Guarini: So even from your own outside authority.

[27:08] Ilana Levine: Yes, exactly. So if you say, instead of me saying.

[27:10] Ilana Levine: I got this. I could say, Justin, you got this. Justin, you can do this. And there's something about that subtle shift that is a little bit more powerful that reaches a little bit deeper. What I hear when you say that is you are being your own loving parent, right? You're being a loving parent to yourself. And I think that's a great thing. It really is a beautiful thing. Okay, so I really want to know, and I love asking people this question, and it's kind of a broad question, but just go with me on it. What do you think one of the secrets of your success has been?

[27:49] Ilana Levine: I think I am a truly curious person. When I really think about how I operate in the world, and I think that is a nice quality to have and a nice quality to be around. So when I'm in a room, whether I have the job or I'm auditioning for the job, I think naturally I am already collaborating with the people in the room because I'm as curious about them as they are about me. And I think we all like to feel seen whatever side of the table we're on in an audition room or in life, like whether you're the one sitting at the table at the restaurant giving your order or you're the restaurant taking the order. It's like everything is about communication and partnership. And so I think part of why I've had success is I think that is authentically who I am, and I think that comes across.

And so whether or not you cast me, whether or not ultimately I'm exactly the right person for this job or this part at this time, you're not right for every part. But I think every experience people have with me professionally, I like to think they feel seen, and when you give that out, you get it back. I used to just jump into the audition, right? Like I would just do my thing and run out of the room. And I would say that everyone likes to hear something nice about, you know, often the writers in the room and no one doesn't want to hear you really like their thing. And just to be like, this was beautiful. This play really touched me. This movie really, you know, whatever it is, it's okay to just say what you think.

And then they'll, you know, then you start the work. But just to find a moment to take ownership of the experience by starting a conversation. It doesn't just have to be you answering a question. You know, so often they'll say, do you have any questions? Or so often they won't. They'll just make you go. And I just feel like, take a minute. You can, it's your time. Whatever happens in that room, that's your time. And if you want to just connect for a minute before you start the thing, then take it. And starting with a compliment, an authentic compliment, who doesn't want to hear that?

[30:35] Ilana Levine: I love talking about humanizing the process of a very barbaric situation, which is auditions. I mean, it is, you know, emotionally, physically, from a time perspective, I mean, it is one step below, you know, ancient Roman times where gladiators are just killing each other for sport. Like it, to me, I mean, obviously not literally, but like, you know, it feels like that for people on both sides of the table. And I think we often forget that these are human beings on the other side of the table. They have the same wants, needs, likes, dislikes that we do. And yet just walking into the room and realizing that it is not a performance as much as it is a dialogue and a conversation and walk into the room and like, I know I keep harping on this, but like owning your own power in my book, Audition Secrets, I have a three-step process where it's like, no matter what is happening to you outside of the room, there is a way to bring that authentically into the room and use it as a connecting point between you and the people on the other side of the table.

And so, so often we're outside of the room and we're like panic, panic, panic, panic, panic, panic. And then we walk into the room. And like you said, they will ask, I mean, at the very least, normally people on the other side of the table will say, how are you doing today? Or some sort of just, hey, let's get the ball rolling, right? And so often, and I've done it plenty in the past, we'll walk in after panicking and feeling that craziness outside and we'll just lie and say, oh, I'm doing so great. Yeah, everything's wonderful. This is great. And like the people on the other side of the table, part of their job is to sniff out lies and liars and to see through the BS. And while I think a lot of them that I've spoken to, a lot of casting directors, directors, creative teams are just used to that happening.

And they just ignore the lies that we tell when we walk into the room. It is such a breath of fresh air when you walk into the room and you can authentically own your story, whether you feel crazy, whether you feel nervous, whether your dog has crapped all over your rug or the A train was running behind as it often is. Whatever happens, there's a way that you can walk in and you can very quickly tell your story and then transition and shift to a place where you can be like, you know what? But I'm here. I'm excited. I love the show. I love this character. And I can't wait to get your feedback and just to work with you. And it just sets off the whole audition in a way where it is unlike what most people do, which is come in, lie, stress, stress, stress, stress, stress.

[33:12] Justin Guarini: I mean, I think part of what you're saying is true. I also am thinking, I don't know that they want to hear about your dog problems. But I do think that starting with just the same kind of conversation you'd have where you would meet anyone if you're in an elevator, just to be human, just bring in your humanity. I think that's it. And I mean, you're going to see the person who... I often am in the waiting room and I'm like, oh, she would be great. Like I spend the whole time casting everyone else in the waiting room. In fact, I've even gone in and be like, you guys, do you know who's Leslie Margarita is right outside? I'm just saying like, I'm so excited to be here, but if you don't cast her, I'm literally going to kill you.

[34:14] Ilana Levine: But that's what I'm talking about, what you just did right there. And I use the dog crapping on the rug as the example. But like what I mean, the three-step process I give people is like briefly in as few words as possible, tell them where you're at right in the moment, right? And whether that's like, oh man, my dog crapped on the rug and things are crazy. But then you transition it because it just shows that human side. It's like how many actors would walk into the room like you did and say, oh my God, Leslie Margarita is out there and if you don't cast her, I'm going to kill you. I mean, I'm going to come in and do my best here, but honestly, I don't even know why I'm here. But that's so refreshing.

That's so refreshing. And so I love that. I love that because it's just, like you said, it's just you're bringing your humanity into the room, whereas so many people will try and bring in what they think the people want or how they are supposed to be acting. And it just sets you up in a way that steals your power, really.

[35:22] Ilana Levine: Yeah. And it's all crazy. It is. It's all crazy. But we're there in all of it because at the end of the day, we want to tell stories and be a part of something bigger than ourselves. And the other thing I was going to say for your younger listeners or even our peers, if you ever get a chance to be a reader, at the beginning of your career, you're like, wait, if I'm a reader, are they going to think of me as a reader instead of an actress? You know, we worry so much, understandably, about perception. But the amount I learned being a reader was, I mean, it was better than going to acting school. It was all the BFA of it all. Had I just done that, it's a really extraordinary experience to do that.

And you really take away like, oh my God, those people were all amazing. Like the people who didn't do the job thinking there was something wrong with them. And you just want to call them and go, oh my God, you have no idea. They were talking about you for an hour. They already had an offer out. Like that's also just part of it. So, you know, that was so eye-opening. I loved my opportunity. When I was a reader, I absolutely loved it. And I did it probably, I don't know, three years ago. I was easily, I don't know, five Broadway shows in at that point. And I had done everything I'd done in my career. But I went to Marcy Phillips over at ABC. I mean, lovely lady, right? And I said, hey, do you mind if I just sit and read for one of your sessions?

She's like, really want to do that? I was like, yeah. And I learned so much. A, because I was able to be in an audition room without any pressure whatsoever. I could look down at the script all I wanted to, right? And yet two things that I wanted to learn. I wanted to see what worked and what didn't work in the audition room. And also I kind of wanted to be that like the best reader they'd ever had too. And but yeah, it was fun. And so, I mean, I don't know. I mean, hopefully I didn't make anybody nervous or feel weird or anything, but like, I really was like, I am committed to be, because I've had so many shitty readers. I'm going to be the best reader ever and I'm going to see what works. And I was so fascinated because this guy came in for this TV show and literally he was like tall, the chiseled face, handsome guy, but not like drop dead gorgeous, but he kind of was buff.

And literally what he did was he, I said a line, he looked at me, he looked down at a script, and then he looked up and he said the line. And then I had my line and then he did it. And it was this process over and over again. And I'm thinking, what the heck is this guy doing? Because there was no flow to it. There was no, no, no. And we're so concerned about creating a flow and making sure that we keep the ball in the air like we're taught to do from a very young age. But there is also something to be said for allowing whatever the person that you're in the scene with says to hit you, to look down and then to look up and deliver the line.

[38:33] Justin Guarini: I think you said something that really puts a bow on this entire conversation with the fact that you're just there to serve the story. And I say to my students all the time, who serves the story best wins. You might not get the job, but it's all about serving the story. It's not about applause. It's not about money, although that helps. It's not about awards. It's all about serving the story. And I love the way that you serve our community with Little Known Facts podcast. Where can everyone hear that? You're pretty much everywhere you podcast, right?

[39:07] Ilana Levine: Yeah, yeah. I mean, all the places, wherever your phone or computer take you to listen to podcasts. There's also a website, littleknownfactspodcast.com.

[39:18] Justin Guarini: All right, perfect. Well, thank you so very much for stopping by. Thank you for sharing your story with us. I really, really appreciate it.

[39:25] Ilana Levine: Oh, Justin, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[39:31] Justin Guarini: You know, I'm so lucky to interact with such wonderful people in our business. And as you could hear by the podcast, Ilana certainly is one of them. So make sure that you go over to check out Little Known Facts with Ilana Levine. She is a wonderful person and a great interview too, for that matter. And I'm so lucky that you stuck with me and Ilana to the end of this podcast. Thank you so very much for being a listener who follows through. I really appreciate it. And we are trying to spread the word for this podcast. So if you could take a moment, make sure to subscribe to this podcast and leave a review for us on iTunes, on Stitcher, on Google Play, wherever you podcast, because that way more people can find out about us and see the wonderful work that we are doing here together.

[40:13] Justin Guarini: All right. So next week, do not forget to tune in because I have Tony winner Michael Cerveris on the show, and we talk about all kinds of wonderful stuff. And he just dropped some knowledge about his career from the start all the way to where he is now. It's a great show. Do not miss it next week on Audition Secrets. I am Justin Guarini. Thank you so very much for listening. And remember, at the end of the day, you're only one audition away.