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[0:00] Martín Acuña: Hi everyone. I am Martín Acuña and you are listening to Backstage Talk.

[0:16] Martín Acuña: Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Backstage Talk. Today's guest is someone I met through Clubhouse. Do y'all remember Clubhouse? That audio weirdish app that sometimes had scams but sometimes they didn't, that like popped up in the middle of the pandemic. I made a really incredible group of Broadway friends and Anant was one of them. So I have the honor and pleasure of having Anant Das with me today. He is a theater and film creative producer and CEO of Broadway Boxed Up, the longest-running theater-themed subscription box with a focus on elevating BIPOC, Deaf, and Disabled theatrical voices, connecting fans with the Broadway world, and reimagining theatergoers' relationship with merch.

He is also a co-producer of A Beautiful Noise, The Neil Diamond Musical, and The Piano Lesson, now on Broadway as well as Kinky Boots Off-Broadway. In addition, Anant has experience as an investor with A Strange Loop, the 2022 Tony Award winner of Best Musical, Fairy Cakes, the Museum of Broadway, and the Broadway Makers Marketplace. He also has experience in film projects and early development, and has a background in financial valuation, computer science, and is a consultant with PricewaterhouseCoopers. He is passionate about the intersection of theater, tech, and finance, as well as energized to increase access to both theatrical opportunities and theater education. Finally, he is a 2022 member of both the TEDxBroadway Young Professional cohort and the Theater Producers of Color cohort, and serves as a board member of the New York Theater Workshop's 4th Street Bar Association. How cool is that? So, Anant, thank you so much for being here, it is an honor to have you. So, welcome to Backstage Talk.

[2:21] Anant Das: Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here. This has been a long time coming, and I'm just glad to have this chance to talk with you.

[2:34] Martín Acuña: I know, I know. So, tell us a little bit about you. Like, what did I miss in your bio? Because you come from literally another world, and with a passion in theater, you're just mixing both. So, tell us all about that.

[2:50] Anant Das: Absolutely. You know, growing up, I'm an immigrant to the United States, but I've lived in the U.S. basically my entire life. My earliest memories are in the U.S., and I grew up watching Bollywood films, and every Bollywood film is basically a movie musical. So, music was always a big part of my life. I was that kid in elementary school who had the opportunity to sign up for band, orchestra, choir. I'm like, yes, I'm signing up for all three. I'm going to play an instrument, I'm going to play two instruments, I'm going to lug a big bass and a percussion set to school every day, and sing in the choir. I loved all of it. In middle school, I had the opportunity to do theater, and I was like, yes, sign me up.

This sounds like so much fun. And it just kind of grew from there. In high school, I performed in an a cappella show choir, and that's kind of where I got more of my performing experience. And while doing that is when Smash came out, and that TV show was an education for me. Coming from an immigrant background, growing up in the Washington, D.C. area, theater was not as accessible to me. And so that TV show was the first time I learned about what dramaturgy was, what previews were, what an out-of-town tryout was, who Liza Minnelli and Bernadette Peters were. I didn't know any of these things. So truly, that show was an education for me. And that kind of grew. I went to undergrad studying finance and computer science, but still keeping performing in my background.

And I knew I wanted to be in the business side of theater. I just didn't really know what that meant yet. And anytime I said that to someone, they didn't really know either. People would say like company management, stage management, all sorts of different things. No one really knew what someone with my interests and skills, where that really fit into the theater world.

[5:10] Anant Das: And I was really fortunate. A friend of mine started a program in my undergrad called Broadway Talks Back, where she would bring in Broadway actors to the school to teach masterclasses and also have a talkback event, like a discussion with the students. And it used to be all theater majors or performers who'd come in and be really excited to talk and learn from these Broadway actors. But for me sitting there, I was just like a sponge trying to learn more about the theater world. And it's kind of through those programs, we had people like Drew Gehling, Solea Pfeiffer, Jesse Mueller, so many great performers come down. And through that program, I really learned, okay, I think what I want to do is producing.

I think that's the best way to sort of meld my interests. And so after graduating, I moved to New York City, and not too long after COVID happened. And kind of forced everyone, as you know, to pivot. And I had a lot of experience high school, undergrad ordering merchandise and designing merchandise. And that's something that I always loved doing. And so summer of 2020, I thought long and hard is how can I bring theater to the homes of fans? And what can I do to keep people connected to theater? While also elevating BIPOC theater professionals, BIPOC organizations, and kind of keeping them a momentum on all the social justice causes that I believed in. And that's kind of how Broadway Boxed Up, my theater subscription box, was born.

And so we started October 2020. And now we ship merchandise, some in partnership with Broadway shows, some we were actually the official, or we create official merchandise for including Kinky Boots Off-Broadway, a few shows in development, we're creating their official merchandise, or some of their merchandise. We partner with Broadway shows, we partner with other small businesses, and we design some of our own items inspired by theater or theatrical shows. And we include about four to seven pieces of merchandise. We often have virtual events, little postcards interviewing diverse organizations and theater professionals, and we include it in the box each month. And we ship out to over 15 countries and 48 or more states every month.

And so it's just grown into this huge way for people to stay connected to theater and learn about theater and have access to theater who wouldn't have it otherwise. And that, yeah, oh my gosh, it's been, it's been, I say, overwhelming in the best way possible, because it's nonstop every month, you just got to keep going. But I have connected with so many theater fans. And I feel like sometimes in New York, we're in our own bubble. But I really have the opportunity to know what do theater fans actually want? What do they know? And what do they like? I think that's really rare information that most producers don't have access to.

[7:31] Martín Acuña: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have here the Paciencia y Fe wood thingy that you made. And I see it every single morning when I wake up, I have it in my library with all my bunch of musical theater books. And it's amazing, like shameless plug, everyone check out Broadway Boxed Up, because their things are incredible. And they are so pretty, like, merch at the theaters are very nice, sometimes a little expensive, but Broadway Boxed Up has a lot of things. And includes, you include playbills, you include old things, you include new things, you bring shows back, like merch from shows that were a decade ago on Broadway, and current things, and you just mixed it up in the boxes. And it's incredible. I really, really, I remember I, before I met you, I saw the merch and I was like, this is really pretty, like they are aesthetically pretty things. So it's just amazing that your business has grown that much.

[8:38] Anant Das: Thank you so much. And I'm such a believer that merchandise truly can be a game changer for so many of these shows. You know, there are some Broadway producers that are very into merch and love it. But I think a lot of Broadway producers don't really think too much about it. For a variety of reasons. One, a lot of merch sales, a lot of that income doesn't actually go to the production. So there's no financial incentive, or there's not a great financial incentive for producers to care too much. But I think a lot of them don't understand how, especially I think for millennials and Gen Z, merchandise can be a way to really stay connected with shows and to have that constant reminder. It's a marketing tool. It's a way to get people comfortable with your show. It's a way to continue inspiration. And I think it's a missed opportunity that a lot of shows aren't thinking enough about.

[9:34] Martín Acuña: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I am not going to ask you for the random fun fact because I am going to drop it for you. I know that you are an ultimate Sara Bareilles fan. So, and as you can see behind you, we have a Waitress poster. And I think your hoodie is also from Waitress.

[9:49] Anant Das: Yes, I'm currently wearing my opening night Waitress jacket from the opening night, the Broadway opening night, April 24th, 2016. I love it.

[10:06] Martín Acuña: So that's your fun fact. You love, love, love to blast and belt any Sara Bareilles album or your version of a one-man show of Waitress when you're driving. Plus you are taking ASL classes, which yes, we love diversity and inclusivity in the theater and is so much needed. So I just love that fun fact about you. Let's pivot a little bit into your journey that you've mentioned a little bit before from high school and your performing experience all the way to computer science.

[10:37] Anant Das: So which was your aha moment in which you said, I need to be a producer and I'm gonna spend time being a producer?

[10:52] Anant Das: That's a great question. I think it's a culmination of a lot of experiences combined together. I think Smash really got me interested in aspects of theater that I didn't know existed. And I think Sara Bareilles played a role too, seeing her concerts.

[11:42] Anant Das: Talk to producers who were there in the room talking about what they did. And I was like, wait, I can do this, you know, it humanizes the thing. You know, when you think of producers, especially in the film world, you think of people like Steven Spielberg, you think of these big people who, it seems like a world that there's no way someone with my background, who would my access with my connections, which are basically none could get into. But then I realized, wait, these are human people who are just putting in the work and are able to succeed in this industry. And I was like, wait, that's something I can do. So really Clubhouse made me realize, okay, I think what I actually want to do is producing and that there is a path for me to do it.

And so I just kept talking with people and kept learning as much as I can. I think for me, a theme throughout my life is taking every opportunity as an educational opportunity, whether it's talking to people on Clubhouse, whether it's sitting to those panel discussions with Broadway actors in undergrad, whether it's watching Smash, you know, treating it as an education really changes your mindset and you slowly start to piece things together. And after over 10 years of piecing things together, I realized, okay, producing is something I want to do, is something I can do. And I think my unique background of performing and finance is the ideal fit to be able to add value to it. I love it.

[13:03] Anant Das: So let's double click on what you just said about humanizing the producer's job on Broadway, because you are a new producer on Broadway. You were an investor with The Strange Loop. You also had Kinky Boots, which closed a couple of months ago, A Beautiful Noise, and The Piano Lesson. So how would you summarize this small part of your journey in the industry as a producer? When I look for things to invest and produce in, I think I'm trying to be value-led. You know, there's kind of a little bit of a theme going on if you see the shows that I'm involved with, whether it's the approach the shows are taking or the topic of the shows. And I think, you know, I want to produce or invest in theater that I want to see more of in the world, whether it's creating joy or creating opportunities for diverse actors.

And I mean diverse not only in race, but ability, size, etc. New Broadway debuts, all of that. I think all of those things are really important to me. And so that's kind of one of the big things that I look for when I get involved with a project. You know, are we creating the world of theater that I want to see more of? And then for me, it's also trying to work with and meet with new people and see what I can learn from them. How are they producing? How are they addressing the conversations and challenges that the industry has had and currently has? And so that's kind of my producing style right now. And especially when I am involved in shows that are in early development and I have the opportunity to be more of the creative producer, how can I take what I've learned from these shows and really apply them and be the change I want to see in the industry?

Because I'm a big believer that, you know, you're a lead producer, they're the CEO, they're the boss. You know, there are some rules they have to follow, but they can run their company, also known as their Broadway production or commercial theater production, how they want. And so if I have the opportunity to be a lead producer, I'm definitely going to run it the way that I want to affect the change that I want to see in the industry.

[15:07] Anant Das: Absolutely love it. And for me, especially, it's really inspiring to see these new voices, these new faces being producers on Broadway, being on the other side of the table, which was like a recurring topic my last season during the Latin and Musical Theater Special, in which every performer said the change has to come from behind the table. It has to come on the producer's side, on the creator's side, on the writer's, director's, composer's side. We need those new faces. And when I see you and the Producers of Color cohort, it's so inspiring because you are being literally the change this industry needs. So I wanted to ask you, what does it take to be a producer on Broadway and off-Broadway?

It's hard. It's tough to be a producer sometimes. You know, especially theater producing, to kind of summarize it, you know, you have your lead producers who are essentially the CEO of the company. And they work with co-producers who raise money on their behalf to make the production happen. Sometimes co-producers are involved more creatively with marketing, etc. That all depends on how the lead producer runs their company. But as a co-producer, you're essentially like a venture capitalist or a fundraiser. You're raising money in increments of, you know, $10,000, $12,500, $25,000, $50,000, you know, significant amounts of money. And not everyone you know is probably able to afford to give that kind of money.

And so it really requires, one, the ability to put yourself out there and make relationships and nurture relationships and have conversations. You know, I'm a big, I'm the type of producer where I like to nurture relationships and really get to know someone and not just meet them and the next day send them an email asking for money. Because I know when I meet someone, the next day they ask me for money, I'm kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, is that the only reason you were talking to me? You know, that's not really how it works and how I feel good. And so I don't want to be that kind of producer. And so it takes a lot of time, it takes patience, it takes effort to put yourself out there and go into new spaces and network and meet people and, you know, think about, oh, you know, I'm from the D.C. area.

Who do I know in D.C.? Who do I know in my network? And then you have to be able to sell what Broadway is, especially if you want to diversify theater. Part of that's diversifying the investor pool. Who's the money going to? To me, it's important to bring in first-time investors, to bring in BIPOC and diverse investors into the foray, people who probably never invested before, didn't even realize they could invest in theater. And so a lot of what I do is teaching people why theater can be an investment they want to take part of, why it can be one of the most fun investments they take part of. And my job is to then give them a good experience. I don't want to be the producer that takes people's money and then never deals with them again.

I want to communicate with them. I want to make sure they have a great experience. I want to make sure that even if they didn't make a single cent of their investment back, they had a great time and they believe in theater. And that takes a lot of time and energy, and you have to be willing to build relationships and be a people person and take care of your investors. And so it's just a lot of conversations, a lot of networking, a lot of late nights. Unfortunately, most people aren't a full-time co-producer. They have other jobs, other ways they make money. The income's not stable when co-producing. And so it also just requires a big desire to want to do it. And if you don't come from a place of wealth or a place where you know a lot of people who have money, it's going to require thinking outside of the box, thinking of how you can expand your so-called Rolodex, and how you can make sure you balance all of that with the values you believe in.

[19:10] Anant Das: Yeah. It's kind of hard. And mostly because in the world we live in, a lot of people will always expect to get something back or to gain something back once they've invested in something. And unfortunately, theater is maybe a little bit like gambling in which we do not know the outcome of the show because we may believe in the show wholeheartedly and try our best for the show to be successful, but many times the audience will not like it. And it's a game. It absolutely is. And I always tell my investors up front that there is a world where you couldn't get any of your money back, and you have to be okay with that when you're making the investment. Now, is that likely to happen? Probably not.

Usually, you'll get at least something back, even if the show isn't super successful. And what's really great is even past the commercial Broadway or off-Broadway run, there are tours, there's licensing, there are many avenues to continue to get your money back. And so it doesn't have to be successful on Broadway for the show to be financially successful.

[20:39] Anant Das: Yeah, absolutely. A lot of shows have been successful on touring or licensing in other countries, in other parts of the world, that they didn't have the quote-unquote great Broadway run or great off-Broadway run. So yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The statistic I always throw around, which I heard from several producers, so I hope it's true, that about 20% of Broadway shows recoup. I don't know if that's recoup on Broadway during their run or recoup in general, but that statistic is higher than restaurants. And I feel like everyone I know is always like, yeah, I want to start a restaurant one day. I want to invest in a restaurant. But statistically, I think Broadway or commercial theater has a better money-making rate than restaurants. So I always like this. When I say that, people are like, whoa, that changes their perspective and kind of grounds them a little bit.

[21:19] Anant Das: I think there are a few things. First, ask yourself, why do you want to be a producer and what kind of producer do you want to be? For me, I very much knew that I want to be a commercial theater producer. Commercial theater producing is not necessarily for everyone. And there's so many other types of producing that you don't have to be in the commercial theater space. And I know many colleagues and friends who went through the Theater Producers of Color cohort class, the Producing 101 course, and they realized, I want to be a producer, just not in commercial theater. And they do producing in other realms and worlds. So first, ask yourself, why do you want to be a commercial theater producer or what kind of producer do you want to be?

For me, coming from a business and finance background, commercial theater made a lot of sense. I understand the finance a lot better and more technically than a lot of my colleagues do. And so I'm able to add value to conversations with my.

[22:52] Anant Das: Every producer has a style of shows they want to do, and then figure out what kind of producing you want to do. Do you just want to be a co-producer who raises money on shows, which is absolutely fine? Many people only do co-producing, and it's a much-needed part of our industry. Do you want to be a lead producer or creative producer and have more input in the shows and more input in how shows are produced and potentially create change in our industry? And if you want to do that, oftentimes you have to go through the co-producing to get to that point where you have the knowledge to be a lead producer. So understand what kind of producing you want to do allows you to figure out how you can get there and what kind of opportunities you have to take up.

And then I think the next thing is be kind and be the type of producer you want to be. For me, I've had people say to me, oh, you're not being aggressive enough. And I kind of come back to them. I was like, why does producing have to be aggressive? That's not the type of producer I want to be. And I want to be the producer that changes things in this industry and makes connections. And I realize that's not what everyone wants to do. But if that's my brand of producing, I absolutely can move forward with that. And I think there's a world in theater, just like there's a world for every type of show on Broadway, there's a world for every type of producing on Broadway too. And I think I have something to add to that. And so figure out what kind of producer you want to be and follow those values. I love that. I love that. So what would be a risk that you've taken in your career that has totally paid off?

[24:31] Anant Das: Absolutely. And I think a risk was producing The Piano Lesson, not because the show was a risk by any sense, but that was the first Broadway show that I produced. One, but two, I was committing me and my partners to raise a certain amount of money. And that was scary. We're talking about sums of money I have never seen in my life. I've never had in my bank account. And I'm committing to these lead producers that me and my three partners, we're going to raise this amount of money. And it was frightening. And fortunately, I came in with partners. I think finding partners is great. You absolutely should. It makes producing easier just because you have someone you can lean on. Not everyone's going to have a good day every day.

Some days you're going to find investors. Some days someone else is going to find investors. It's just a great way to make the process a team process and not go through it alone. But I was worried, what if we didn't raise the money? It's not a big deal. It happens all the time. It's not like you're blacklisted from the industry by any means. But my first Broadway show that I'm producing, I don't want to fail at raising that money. And so that was a concern. But I'm so happy I jumped into it. I'm so happy that I was willing to take that risk because we pulled it off. And I learned that the producing team we worked with, Tom Curtahy's office, Sonia Friedman's office, Brian Moreland's office, they were really kind and supportive.

And they wanted to see us succeed too. It wasn't that we were just off on our way to raise this money. Good luck. I'll see you once you have the money. It was like, no, we're here for you. Let's talk about things. What do you need? How can we help support you in your race? They know it's hard. It's hard for everyone. It's not like people are just pulling investors out of their pocket. Some people are, I'm sure. But raising $150,000, $250,000, $500,000 is hard for most people, especially in the world we live in, especially in the midst of a potential upcoming recession, especially with the economy, inflation. It's not easy. And there are so many shows, your traditional investors are being bombarded with, invest in this show, invest in that show, invest in whatever show.

And so a lot of the times you're finding new investors, which for me is great. Because I think, like you said earlier, you need to diversify the producing pool. I believe you need to diversify the investing pool. People think diversity is just visual on stage, but you need to diversify all of it. And so it's exciting to find new investors, but it's hard. And so I think taking that risk was the big one that I think paid off in the long run. I love it. And I'm so happy you took that risk because the pictures I've seen of you on the red carpet or your parents on the red carpet just fill my heart with so much joy. So I'm really happy you took that.

[27:28] Anant Das: My parents are my forever red carpet dates. I am like such a traditional immigrant child, I feel like, in that parents are number one and I will forever bring them and they are my biggest supporter. And I'm just so honored to show them this world that if I told them three years ago, they'd be like, what are you talking about? What does that mean to produce on Broadway? So it feels really special to be able to include them in this. And I love that. I love that. Last question before we wrap up. What are your top five favorite musical theater shows? We already know Waitress.

[28:04] Anant Das: So yeah, number one, definitely Waitress for a variety of reasons. I love that score. I love the show. You'll see me in the front row of Waitress if I'm ever watching it. So definitely number one musical Waitress. Other than the top five, this is hard and I'm trying not to have recency bias because I've seen so many good shows lately and it's like, is it just in my head right now? Or do I actually like, is it top five? But I think my top five Waitress, Groundhog Day the musical, special one to me for a variety of reasons. I think it's absolutely, music is gorgeous. Tim Minchin does an amazing job. I think it was the first musical I saw by myself also. So I think that was really special to go see a musical for the first time by myself on Broadway.

So Groundhog Day, The Band's Visit, gorgeous, gorgeous musical. The drums reminded me a little bit of South Asian Dabla drums and the Middle East Israeli music has influences back and forth between that and South Asia. Number four, How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. I think that was the first golden age type musical I saw and it changed my opinion about musicals from the 60s, 70s and I loved it. Okay, but Daniel Radcliffe, Nick Jonas or Darren Criss?

[29:23] Anant Das: It's so funny. I didn't even see it on Broadway. That's the funniest thing. I saw it, the Kennedy Center did a production with, oh my gosh, was it Skylar Astin? Who would have rocked that role? Honestly. Was it Skylar Astin? Oh my god, I'm getting that and Little Shop confused right now. They did a production of Little Shop that I also saw. I think it was Skylar Astin and oh my gosh, I'm blanking on her name. She was in Waitress. She's in Ann Juliet right now. Blonde hair, Betsy Wolfe. Yeah. Betsy Wolfe and Michael Urie and I fell in love and what was really cool is I saw it around the time the Me Too movement was taking off and the director in the program wrote a huge paragraph about, look at this show and look at it a lens of 20 whatever's Me Too movement and draw parallels.

This show is still so relevant with how women are treated in the workplace and I was like, wow, great job of tying this work to the modern day and that changed my whole view on it too. But I just saw Daniel and Merrily Roll Along, so I'm a very much a Daniel fan right now. He's a phenomenal performer. And then my fifth musical, oh my gosh, I'm totally blanking. I literally came up with a list before because I had a feeling you're going to ask me about my favorite musicals and now I can't even think of a single musical I've seen. Oh my goodness. Let me think for a second.

[30:52] Anant Das: I literally cannot think of a single musical. I literally made a list of five and I can't even think of, oh my goodness. Any Sondheim, any Andrew Lloyd Webber. Oh, I got it. Okay. And then my fifth favorite musical would have to be The Last Five Years. Love it. Yes. I, the whole concept of it blew my mind. You know, I just happened to see it one day on a plane, the movie. Anna Kendrick, forever my favorite Kathy, you know, her CM smiling blows my mind. I just think the whole concept of it's amazing. The music is gorgeous. You can have discussions about that show for hours arguing who's the real villain and just keep breaking it down forever and ever and ever. I love it. I love that show. I think Jason Robert Brown does an incredible job with it.

And it's cool because his work, I didn't grow up seeing Sondheim, but through Jason Robert Brown's work, I'm like, oh, I can see how Sondheim influenced you. And I can see how Jason Robert Brown influenced other composers. And that's how my appreciation for maybe Sondheim began, even though I didn't grow up seeing Sondheim.

[31:55] Anant Das: Yeah, I love it. And I agree with you. The Last Five Years, it's, it is a mind-blowing musical. It's really good. So Anand, thank you so much for being here. I have loved this whole conversation. Thank you for your time, for your insights on being a producer. And yeah, I thank you for your, also your insights on your business, which I personally love. If someone wants to contact you, see your business, where can they find you?

[32:25] Anant Das: You can reach out to me or my business at BroadwayBoxedUp on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. We're on all the social medias. Instagram is probably the easiest to reach us, but also Facebook. And happy to talk to anyone about the Broadway merchandising world or producing and how to get involved, how to get started. You know, I love coming to BroadwayBoxedUp and I love helping people get involved in the world of theater merchandising and theater producing.

[32:57] Martín Acuña: I love it. Thank you so much for being here and all the success to you and your business and the shows you're working on.

[33:07] Anant Das: Thank you so much. I had such a great time. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to be here. Thanks everyone for listening to this new episode of Backstage Talk.

[33:20] Martín Acuña: Remember to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Backstage Talk Podcast.