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[0:00] Martín Acuña: Hi everyone. I am Martín Acuña and you are listening to Backstage Talk.

[0:18] Martín Acuña: Welcome back to another episode. Our guest today is Amanda Flynn. She is all things voice. Originally from Texas, she moved to New York City to pursue a career in musical theater as a performer. She performed in the first national tour of Susan Stroman and Trevor Nunn's Oklahoma, then went to the Mamma Mia! Company in Las Vegas, and then she landed the understudy role of Glinda in the Los Angeles production of Wicked. How cool is that? She then took a pivot and embarked on a new journey, learning about voice health. Since then, Amanda helps singers sing in a healthy, efficient, and marketable way. She has a Master of Music in Vocal Performance with a Musical Theater concentration and an Advanced Certificate in Vocal Pedagogy from NYU, and other several many certificates. She has worked with Broadway's The Lightning Thief, the Percy Jackson Musical, and the Be More Chill Company as their vocal coach. Amanda, it is an honor. Welcome to Backstage Talk.

[1:31] Amanda Flynn: Thank you so much for having me. It is an honor to be here. Thank you, thank you.

[1:38] Martín Acuña: First thing I want to ask you, because I've just read a little bit about your background, is in that pivotal moment when you decided to stop performing and went to vocal health, what happened there? Why did you take that jump?

[1:57] Amanda Flynn: Yeah, you know, I had some troubles and some struggles with my voice when I was performing professionally, and it was tough. It was a hard thing because I was met with a lot of resistance and a lot of pushback. And it was really hard. It's really hard as a performer when you run into something as sensitive as struggling with your voice and, you know, being sort of blamed for it and being told that it was my fault and that the reason I was having troubles was because I just didn't have good technique. You know, there's a lot of shame and there's a big stigma around having a problem with your voice in the musical theater industry. And it was really frustrating for me. And it was really, it was really like heartbreaking and sad, honestly.

You know, I'd spent my entire life wanting to do this thing. And here I was doing it, and I was struggling. And instead of being met with resources, and being met with an opportunity to figure it out, I was sort of being, you know, pushed in the corner and being told that it was my fault. And that if I was better, I wouldn't be having these troubles. And so that was really hard for me. And on my, my sort of, you know, recovery path of figuring out what was going on, getting on the right medication, changing up some other medications, you know, figuring out my singing and whatnot, it, you know, I realized that this was a huge issue in our industry and a huge hole in our industry. You know, we provide physical therapy many times a week to performers, because we know that if we provide them with physical therapy, they don't get hurt as much.

And there was nothing in place for voices. It was sort of, if you're good, you'll be fine. And if you're not a good singer, you're going to run into, you might run into problems. But then that just means you don't know what you're doing. And I thought, this is really wrong, you're asking us to do really, really over the top things vocally, and not providing us with any resources. And so when people do run into problems, which is very, very frequent, they're often made to feel as though it's their, you know, it's their fault, or their own their problem, they better fix it and deal with it themselves. So, so I started learning a lot about the voice, I started kind of dabbling in teaching, I was still performing at that time, but decided to go to grad school, you know, I started hit a place in my career where I was getting older, I was into my late 20s. And was just in this very transitional place in my performing career.

And I thought, I'm gonna go to grad school, because I really do want to teach, I want to learn more about the voice. So I did that. And then kind of post grad school, never looked back, I just started teaching. And then here I am, I like to say that I'm accidentally retired from performing. But you know, I made it my mission to really learn as much as I could about the voice, particularly in regards to vocal health and vocal injury, so that I could help keep performers from having to deal with what I dealt with, as well as help performers through be that support and that resource for them as they navigated that murky territory of some sort of vocal issue, because it's terrifying. And so, yeah, I've really committed to doing that, in addition to really committing to trying to change the industry's perspective on vocal health, vocal injury, and really kind of get them to get the industry as a whole to sort of understand it better. Yeah.

[5:53] Martín Acuña: I love it. I love it. And I do think you're changing the industry's perspective. And you've been doing it since you were out of grad school.

[6:05] Amanda Flynn: Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

[6:09] Martín Acuña: How did you end up, because I know that as a performer, you already were working on Broadway shows. But how did you end up working as the vocal coach on Broadway or with Broadway performers?

[6:22] Amanda Flynn: Yeah, um, you know, I started working with Broadway performers before I formally worked on a show, you know, just in my private studio, you know, working with aspiring Broadway performers, people on Broadway, people that, you know, are in the industry, but don't really care about Broadway, you know, which is lots of people that, you know, everyone has a different journey and an idea of what their career is going to be. But I started working with, you know, musical theater professionals, some recording artists, things of that nature. So I did that, you know, and I still do that before I ever officially worked on a show. But I, the first, my first sort of gig as being like a sort of production or resident sort of vocal coach was actually working for TheaterWorks, which is a children's theater organization.

And I started working for them, and I was sort of their, you know, vocal coach or vocal consultant for their tours. And so I would meet with, meet with the performers before they'd go on the road, I'd get them all set up with, you know, what they needed vocally, would help them kind of figure out, you know, how to, how to, you know, sing and perform their shows successfully. And so that was really my first experience doing it in that capacity, where I was sort of overseeing a couple of shows as sort of the vocal consultant. And so, you know, Be More Chill came my way. And I always, I always like to say that, that I ended up working on that show officially on Broadway because of the kindness of people around me.

People, you know, believed in me and championed, were champions of my work. And, and that is how it happened. You know, what I'll say is that I spent many years studying and training and learning and working to be ready when that opportunity came. And, and so, you know, I always, you know, I wanted to work on a Broadway show for so long, but I'm so grateful that I didn't until 2019, because I just wouldn't have been ready. You know, I thought I was, but I really wasn't. But by the time the opportunity came around in 2019, it was truly because, you know, I had friends and clients in the show, namely Lauren Marcus and George Salazar. And I mean, I have more friends than that. I'm friends with lots of them.

But these are the two people that really, really championed for me to be involved in the show in an official capacity. You know, they pushed the producers on it. And the producer said, okay. And they brought me on. And I did that. And then same thing with Lightning Thief. Again, the kindness of the people around me, people saying, you know, I believe in what you do. And I had done a little bit of work for the off-Broadway Lightning Thief. You know, had gone in and done like, you know, a day or two of like, you know, working on screaming and monster sounds and all of those sort of extreme vocalisms and helping the cast be ready for that. And they all thought that was useful. And so when Broadway was rolling around, they all said, we want you to work on the show again.

And again, it was the actors going to the producers and saying, this is something that we want. And the producers listened. So yeah, the kindness, kindness of people around me, you know, surrounding myself with people who believe in you.

[9:54] Martín Acuña: Yeah, who believe in you and champion you. And, you know, it's your community, building your community of people will never disappoint.

[10:04] Amanda Flynn: Yeah, I agree on that. I want to dive a little bit into this two Broadway shows. What are your best memories of Be More Chill?

[10:17] Amanda Flynn: Um, well, Be More Chill was really like, like having a play date with my friends. I mean, that is like the best way like you just would walk into the theater and it was like walking into like, your birthday party. You know what I mean? Where it's like, all your friends are there. That was that was Be More Chill because I, you know, I'm really close with so many members of the cast, members of the creative team. And so it was just sort of like getting to like go to work and hang out with all of my friends, which is not something you get to say often. And so, so that you know, that's not really a specific memory. But it really is, you know, I mean, Joe Iconis and Lorne Marcus sang in my wedding.

Right? So like, you know, just the dearest of friends. You know, obviously, Rob and Joe Trace wrote, you know, my husband, Rob and Joe Trace wrote The Lightning Thief and Stephen Brackett directed both shows. And so it's like, you know, it's just these are people that, you know, I have spent so much time with, you know, George Salazar and Jen Tepper and Gerard Canonica. I mean, these are people that I've known for so long. And so getting to just walk into the theatre and like hang out with them was like, that was just a dream. You know, it's like doing a play with your best friends.

[11:46] Martín Acuña: I love it. I love that type of work.

[11:49] Amanda Flynn: I mean, yeah, exactly. Work.

[11:51] Martín Acuña: Yeah, yeah. Work, quote unquote, work.

[11:54] Amanda Flynn: Exactly.

[11:56] Martín Acuña: And how was the journey with these performers? Because I mean, they are incredibly talented. Like, I mean, I'm obsessed with The Lightning Thief still. I didn't get the chance to see it on Broadway, but.

[12:09] Amanda Flynn: Oh, I'm so sorry.

[12:11] Martín Acuña: Yeah, that sucks, but such is life.

[12:15] Amanda Flynn: But I've been following and I love the cast recording. And I mean, they are so incredible performers and their vocals are just top notch in the business. And I mean, on both shows, songs like Michael in the Bath.

[13:05] Amanda Flynn: And I was involved at that step by that stage of the game. The performers had all been doing the show right. So like in Be More Chill, everyone they had just closed off Broadway, you know, to two or three months before they started rehearsals for Broadway. They had just done off Broadway. Most of those same actors had done the show at Two River a couple of years earlier, you know, with Lightning Thief, they had been on tour. Most of those actors had also done it off Broadway, and then they were been on tour, and then they just kind of went right on to Broadway. So everybody was coming into the Broadway run, really knowing their shows well, right, knowing their show vocally, knowing, knowing, you know, they had the stamina to do it, they, you know, had really figured it out.

So it was interesting and really kind of fun to jump in at that stage of the game versus being involved at the very beginning of a project when the singers, they don't know, they don't know what their show is going to feel like yet, they haven't figured it out. You know, they haven't figured out how am I going to sing Michael in the Bathroom? I don't really know yet, right? George had sung it like 350 times or something before we ever got to Broadway, right? So like he knew it. So my job really became about the sustainability of eight shows a week for an open-ended run for a long run, which particularly would be more chill, because it was an open-ended run. And so it was less about let's figure out how to sing Michael in the Bathroom and more about what's the most sustainable, efficient version of Michael in the Bathroom that you can do eight times a week from now until who knows, right?

Because, you know, when they did it off Broadway, it was a short run. It was four to six weeks. I don't remember how long it was, but you sort of know there's an end date. And so it's just a different race you're running when you know there's an end date and you know, you can kind of push through. But when there's not a clear end date, you know, you have to figure out how to navigate that. And so that kind of became the work would be more chill was helping people figure out how to navigate it so that they could make it through the run and feel really successful. And the same thing, the same thing with Lightning Thief. It was a limited run. So we knew we had an end date. We knew we were closing in January 2020.

But because it was sort of a holiday show, meaning it ran from like September to January, so it just hit all the holidays, right? There were some pretty intense weeks. So there were some eight, nine, 10 show weeks. There were a lot. There were weeks that were like multiple two show days in a row. And so it was a grueling schedule. And so that was the thing to navigate there was being there as a resource to help people, you know, again, have the most efficient show that they could so that people can make it through those schedules, because we ask musical theater performers to do utterly insane things. Yeah. And, and just help people get through that run because that it was it was a very grueling schedule.

Yeah. And so yeah, I mean, musical theater performers, we really do very insane things with our voices and our bodies. And that at some point, it takes a toll. It does. I mean, in particularly with Lightning Thief, well, actually, with both shows, again, there's a lot of similarities between them. And something else they had in common was they didn't neither show had an ensemble, which meant that, you know, you had people, you know, you had a couple of actors who only played their role, but everybody else in the show played multiple roles. Right. And so you had the rest of the cast acting as the ensemble in a lot of numbers, which just makes people very busy. You know, they are constantly changing clothes and going back on stage and doing something different and then changing clothes again.

And it's just it makes for a really physically exhausting show because you're you're the ensemble in addition to playing, you know, multiple roles, etc. So both of the shows did have that in common. And then, you know, Lightning Thief had the added the added sword fighting. A lot of fighting. Yeah. And so sword fighting while I'm singing is its own thing. And, you know, having to sort of figure that out. I want to change a little bit because I love I love like picking your brain about these shows. But I want to dive a little bit into voice in musical theatre, because that's what you've been working on in sustainability and health of the the performer's voice. My first and utter question is why does musical theatre has a specific type of vocal sound or like vocal requirement from performers?

What are your thoughts on that? Well, what do you mean a specific type of vocal sound? What does that mean to you? Because I mean, depending on the show, of course, you know that a performer is required to sing a little bit like Disney-like. It's like this princessy or prince voice. Or, for example, for shows like Sweeney Todd or Les Mis, you need more like an operatic training. But for contemporary musical theatre, our voices need to have like a specific sound and that goes towards belting. Yeah, I mean, I would push back on that a little bit and say that that musical theatre in 2021 has no specific sound. Right. And so what I mean by that is we have a multitude of genres of music that exist on Broadway and not just on Broadway, but just in musical theatre in general, because musical theatre is not Broadway.

Right. That's one place where musicals happen. But there are musicals that never make it to Broadway and they're just as valid and worthy. Right. So in musical theatre, we have a multitude of musical genres that exist. And so, you know, if you sing Frozen the same way you try to sing Once, it will not work because those are very, very different sounds. Right. Waitress and Hadestown are not asking for the same vocal style. Right. So I would push back on that a little bit and say I don't think we have a specific type of sound. In fact, I think that when it comes to training musical theatre performers, the name of the game is really flexibility. It's about being able to sing Sweeney Todd and then also sing Lightning Thief.

Right. I mean, think about Chris McCarroll. He did Les Mis on Broadway and then he played Percy Jackson. Right. And so it's like that is a musical theatre singer is having is having the ability to really change, change their style and their function. But here's what I will say is that in musical theatre, in musicals, right, the songs exist to serve the story. They are there because they further the plots or they reveal character. And so it is of the utmost importance that the audience understands what people are saying in a song. Right. The lyrics must be delivered in a manner that is very clear because the text is incredibly important. And so that is sometimes what people pick out as being a musical theatre sound, because the because the articulation is very clear, because if you can't hear what if you don't understand what I'm saying, you're going to lose plot.

Whereas if I'm recording a song for the radio, it's less about what I'm saying and more about how I'm saying it. It's more about expressing emotions and ideas. And the text is there to help, but it is not about clarity of text, which is why you get people that might breathe in the middle of a phrase, breathe in the middle of a word, you know, sort of, you know, mispronounce words on purpose, drop ends of phrases, have sloppy articulation because you're going to get the vibe of the song whether you understand the lyrics or not. That doesn't work in musical theatre. We have to understand what you're saying, because otherwise we'll be confused. We'll be like, why are they doing that thing now? Right.

You know what I mean? And, you know, because it's like songs are moments of decision making and plot moving and character development. And we have to know what you're saying. So that is sometimes the thing that people pick up on as making it sound musical theatre, as opposed to sounding like a rock singer. Because, yeah, we have to understand you. You know, if not, we're losing the point, you know? Yeah. What are your, in your job working with performers, what can be the top three or four tips, hacks and tricks to maintain a healthy voice? Yeah. I think the first, the first thing I'll say is that training is really helpful. And that can mean a lot of different things, right? Training does not mean you have an hour long voice lesson once a week with a voice teacher.

It can look like that, you know, but it can take other shapes, too. You know, we learn a lot by listening. We learn a lot by talking to people. So there's a lot of ways that we can have training and guidance. Right. But I think it's really helpful having an extra set of eyes and ears that are listening to you and helping you very specifically figure out how to use and control your voice. That's invaluable and is something that cannot be underestimated. Right. You know, you know, singing, singing to stuff on YouTube can sometimes be great, but it's often not. And that's not because the person delivering the video on YouTube, you know, isn't a good teacher, but it's because it's really so individualized.

Right. That you know, you might need something really specific that might be really different from another person. And so without being with somebody one on one, it's really hard to know exactly what you need. Yeah. And then I would say, you know, the idea of like a healthy voice or like a very efficient, sustainable voice. I think that variety and what and how you sing is really valuable. This idea of sort of like cross training, it doesn't mean you necessarily have to like go and sing other genres of music. It doesn't matter. But, you know, that that is not necessarily required. But the ability to stretch your voice in different directions, particularly when you're doing a show, when you're doing a show and you're sort of doing one thing in the show, like let's take Lightning Thief again, for an example, lots of belting.

Everyone's belting. It's just lots of belting. Everybody, every human is belting. And so like, you know, being able to stretch your voice, work in a light mechanism. Right. And find that even if it's just in exercises. But having that variety really helps. It keeps you a little more balanced in your voice, which just helps with sustainability and effort levels and fatigue. And then I think knowing your limits is really important. You have to know when to stop. When do you stop singing? Everyone needs to know when that is, because that limit is different for everybody. And if people get.

[25:40] Martín Acuña: Pimp-pointed one of the most problematic things for me regarding voice, and it's belting. Because everyone wants to belt. And like, in a female performer, I can identify when that performer is belting. And this is my case. I've had a lot of trouble with belting. And probably it's because of training. I haven't had the proper training for belting. But how can you do it without harming your voice? Because it can be like screaming, but we all know how sore a throat can end after screaming.

[26:24] Amanda Flynn: Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll start by saying that any singing that is inefficient is not what you want. Any singing that is inefficient and out of balance can be harmful in some capacity. I don't know that I really like the word harm, harmful, but like any singing, right? And so this is not a belt specific thing. You can sing classical music and have an injury because you were, if you were doing it inefficiently, or if you just hit that point of like fatigue, where an injury happens, right? Because so much of the time, injuries are not about technique. But injuries are simply about just the demands put on the voice, and it just happens. So any, any what you can get, you can injure your voice anytime, right?

So belting is, is not is no different. Okay, so I'll start by saying that. And I think that the reason people like belting is that it's empowering. It's cathartic. It makes people feel strong and in control. It's a big sound. It's a full sound. It feels very grounded and present. It usually when people are belting in a song, it's the most dramatic and the most emotional moment of the song. And that is something we're really drawn to as humans, right? We're drawn to the drama and the emotion and the cathartic, the cathartic feeling of like, feeling it out, right? And so I think that's why people are drawn to it. And I think that's why it is such an effective storytelling tool, because it really does help convey a lot, right with the belt.

So all human beings belt. It's not a gendered phenomenon. And it's not a superpower. No, everyone does it. And everyone, everyone can learn how to do it. You know, I think that you said something that's really important. And that was that you haven't had a lot of training on your belt. And it's really important that when you are taking voice lessons, and when you are looking for a voice teacher, this goes for anybody, not just you, it's really important that you find somebody who teaches the styles you want to sing. Because, you know, there is no blanket vocal technique that makes you able to sing everything, right. And so if you are working with some with a teacher who maybe doesn't have the skill set for belting, you're not going to get what you need.

You know, luckily, these days, the internet has made everything wide open. And so you can find teachers now and work with them online, and they might be located somewhere different. But it gives you the opportunity to find what you need, right? Because if you want to sing at the Met, you should not be with a rock voice teacher. Absolutely. Like, it just wouldn't make any sense. So why if you want to sing in a rock band? Why do you have a classical voice teacher? So this idea that you know, you have to do one thing before you can do another, I don't buy into that, because it just hasn't been my experience. So. So that's what I'll say about that. Um, I don't know, did I answer all your questions about belting?

Did that answer? I don't know that I really did. I mean, I think that the extra set of eyes and ears is so invaluable, because you really have to have somebody guiding you. Because anytime we're doing something that feels new, right? Like, Oh, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to do this. This is a new thing for me. That it's, it's scary. And it's horrifying if you're on your own, because you don't have anyone going, yes, that's right. Or no, that's not right. You need somebody who is reassuring you that what you're doing is is helpful. And it is, yeah, it's helpful is appropriate is building your building your skill set. The other thing I'll say about belting is that sometimes, because it is a little bit more of an extended vocalism, right, meaning it is like that it's dramatic, it's big, it's full, right, in the same way that like singing high notes, like singing a big high note in any, you know, former fashion is right, those things are a little bit more high octane, high pressure.

And those are the things that can make it feel out of control in the beginning, and fatiguing and tiring. And that's just part of the process. It's like deciding you want to run, like being like, I want to become a runner. Right? And you like go for like a two mile run, you know, and you've never run before, you will be utterly exhausted. You'll be like, Oh, my God, I'm dying. Am I dying? But then eventually, you know, you can run three miles, and then four, and then five, you know what I mean? And then eventually, you get there, right, because you build your stamina up. And so learning how to belt is really similar, we have to build our stamina up. And so having a teacher, an extra set of eyes and ears in the room going do this much, only this much, right, just a little.

And then, you know, the next week going, Okay, now you can do a little more. Right? That is really, really helpful. Because otherwise, it can just kind of feel like you're in a dark room. Right? Like throwing darts, hoping to hit a dartboard. It's never, it's never a good feeling for people to be like, I don't know what I'm I don't know what I'm aiming for. I'm just kind of throwing darts in the dark hoping that like, you know, it hits a hits a dartboard somewhere. And so that voice teacher kind of turns the light on for you and goes, there's the dartboard. Can you see it? Let's put let's point you towards it. And now aim you might still miss but like you might have a better chance of getting the dart on the dartboard when you are in a lit room and you can see it.

[32:10] Martín Acuña: Yeah, absolutely. Amanda, before we go, your top five favorite musical theater shows.

[32:18] Amanda Flynn: Oh my god. And I guess you have posters on your wall because that's the first thing you did. Okay, my favorite musicals. Well, I have to say number one favorite musical is The Lightning Thief. Of course he is. Because I'd like to stay married. Just kidding. Rob would be like, why did you say Lightning Thief was your favorite musical? That was dumb. No, Lightning Thief is my favorite musical. I truly love it. It really is like something it just brings me a lot of joy. And so I guess I would say Be More Chill in seconds. I'm doing I'm so bad at this. I can't put them in order. What else? I did I did a podcast for someone else and they asked me something like, what's your favorite musical of all time?

That's why you say five. Give me a choice. Oh, A Strange Loop. You know, I love Oklahoma. I'm gonna throw it back to the to the like, you know, golden age. Yeah, I really do love Oklahoma. Okay, that's one more the right because I said Lightning Thief, Be More Chill, Strange Loop, Oklahoma. You got one. I get one more. Oh my god, what's it gonna be? What's gonna happen is I'm gonna leave here. And I'm gonna have a whole list. I'm gonna be like, whoa, I forgot. I can't believe I didn't say this. You can know me. Not cats. Cats. Just no, it's not cats. That's not right. Um, what would I say? Wow. What would be the fifth one on my top five list here? Oh, I have one. I have one. I'm just gonna be really random.

But I'm gonna say Big River. And it's because I love the music in that show. Okay, yeah. Valid. I like it. It's like a guilty pleasure. I don't know. It shouldn't be a guilty pleasure. No musicals are guilty pleasures. You know, it's like you like what you like. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Is that you should that be in my top five? I couldn't tell you. It's just when I was because I was just thinking, what are shows like I really I also really like Jesus Christ Superstar. Okay, I'm thinking of like, I'm thinking of like, what are the musicals that I would drive around in my car in high school and in college, and like Blast, and like saying all of the all of the songs. Oh, Ragtime. I love Ragtime.

Oh my gosh, I'm giving you my top 10. I love it. Love Ragtime. Love a Sunset Boulevard. Can you tell I'm a 90s 90s musical theater girl? You know, we always love the stuff that you come of age with, you know, the stuff that you like find, you know, musical theater. I don't know. I've given you a bunch. I couldn't tell you if that's actually how I feel. Those are just things I think. I love it. I love it.

[35:29] Martín Acuña: Amanda, where can listeners get a hold of you or book a session, a class, a workshop? I know you have a course coming up about vocal and yeah, vocal physiology is it?

[35:35] Amanda Flynn: Yeah, well, I, I teach a bunch of classes. So I teach vocal pedagogy classes. So every summer, I teach a couple rounds of a class that I call vocal pedagogy foundations. And it is for voice teachers. It's seven weeks, we talk about anatomy and physiology, acoustics and resonance, we talk about vocal health, we talk about biomechanics, like how the voice actually works. And then we talk about like assigning repertoire, designing vocal exercises. And it's, it's a really fun class. And you're right, I do have one more section of it that starts later this month. I don't know when this is airing. But it's June right now. So later later this month. And it's great. I love to do it. We do it online.

And it's it's just really, really fun. So I do that. And then I'm going to sometimes I teach classes for performers too. But that all pops up on my website, which is where you can find me which is Amanda Flynn voice.com. You can reach out there to book a session with myself or with my associate teacher, I have an associate teacher. So and then you can find me on social media and social media. I'm at Amanda Flynn, FLYNN, IE, Instagram, Twitter, or TikTok. Occasional TikTok video.

[36:54] Martín Acuña: I love it, Amanda. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful, wonderful episode. And I really want to book class with you. So I'm straight going straight to your website after this episode.

[37:06] Amanda Flynn: Yeah, I can't wait. Thank you for having me. It's been an honor. It's been a joy talking to you and I appreciate being here.

[37:13] Martín Acuña: No, thank you for coming over. Take care. Bye.

[37:22] Martín Acuña: Thanks everyone for listening to this new episode of Backstage Talk. Remember to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Backstage Talk Podcast.