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[0:00] Eila Mell: This is Hannah Cruz, and you're listening to Behind the Award.

[0:12] Eila Mell: Hello, and welcome to Behind the Award. I'm Eila here with Bruce.

[0:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Hello there.

[0:17] Eila Mell: Good morning. Here we are at the time of recording on the Hangover Tony Award episode.

[0:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I thought Pink was fantastic. Did you love her?

[0:27] Eila Mell: I did. I thought the opening number was great. I thought they didn't ask her to do more than she's capable of. There were a couple of points. But I think it's just my critique with every award show is the writing gets a little long in the tooth as the award show goes on.

[0:44] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, and the pre-show to the Act One, not reshow, but Act One was not great.

[0:50] Eila Mell: No, no, no. So maybe I would sharpen a pencil there.

[0:55] Bruce Gotlieb: I know because those two performers Laura Benanti and Titus Burgess are great. They're so funny. So it's not them.

[1:02] Eila Mell: I also loved Pink's Chicago number if they haven't offered her a contract yet. I don't know what they're waiting for.

[1:08] Bruce Gotlieb: I know. However, I mean, she was great. I loved her. But I did notice you could tell she's a singer and not a dancer when she hits the floor. I mean, I mean, it's no comparison to what Robin Herter did. She was great and she'd be fantastic in the role.

[1:25] Eila Mell: She could definitely do it.

[1:27] Bruce Gotlieb: The only thing I wanted was I wanted Queen Latifah to sing a little bit.

[1:30] Eila Mell: It would have been nice. But I like that there was a nod to her anyway.

[1:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, for sure. For sure.

[1:36] Eila Mell: So I think it was a good Tony's. I'm looking at reviews and people are saying it was mixed, but I thought it was great. I really liked it. I loved bringing Neil Patrick Harris out in the beginning.

[1:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it was great. It was good. From my understanding what I saw in interviews with Pink is that he was a real support for her in, you know, prep and all that. So, you know, why not bring him out? You know, he's done it and done it fantastically.

[2:02] Eila Mell: I know he's one of the best to ever do it.

[2:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely.

[2:07] Eila Mell: The one miss, I have to say, though, that kind of bothered me is the tribute to A Chorus Line.

[2:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I thought Rachel Zegler sounded sensational.

[2:16] Eila Mell: She did. It has nothing to do with Rachel Zegler. Exactly. When you think of A Chorus Line, you're thinking of dance. I mean, yes, what I did for love was a huge song that, you know, went way past being in a Broadway show, right? It was people recorded it, it was on the radio. But even still, you want to see the chorus line, you want to see the dancers, you want to see maybe the gold outfits, or if not the headshots in front of the faces on the line.

[2:44] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I mean, if they wanted if they really wanted that song, and they wanted that moment to be a more slower moment, they could have easily done projections with some archival footage, yeah, or, or photographs.

[2:58] Eila Mell: And also, you know, she was great. But it was too long. I was thinking, Oh, this is it. Is this all we're getting from A Chorus Line? They said they wanted to honor the original cast. So why not have Priscilla Lopez come and sing half of it with her the original morale? She's there. And why would you not bring out Donna McKechnie, Kelly Bishop, Priscilla Lopez, Bay Berkeley, all the wonderful people who are still here to represent that show. I don't know. I Rachel Zegler was great. It's not, you know, she sounds great. She'll be a great Evita, but it's not.

[3:33] Bruce Gotlieb: It also came right after the immemorium. So it was like slow and slower.

[3:39] Eila Mell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was great. Leslie Odom Jr. sounded fantastic.

[3:43] Bruce Gotlieb: I expected a little bit more of a nod. I understand the song choice and all. But they kept talking about Rent's 30th anniversary being honored. And yes, it was, but also not in the way that you expect.

[3:57] Eila Mell: And also, it's a moment for the people who died. It's really not a moment.

[4:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. For right. I mean, it's nice that they use the song, but that's not what that moment is about.

[4:07] Eila Mell: Right. Right. No, I don't disagree. So you got to get tickets to the concert if you want the true experience of the anniversary.

[4:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Right? Yeah. I mean, hopefully it wasn't just a commercial for that.

[4:21] Eila Mell: Oh, I didn't take it that way.

[4:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. The high point of the whole show is Joshua Henry's speech. I thought he was fantastic.

[4:28] Eila Mell: It was a good speech for sure.

[4:30] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I really loved that. So many good moments, though, really. And the performances were better than they usually are the what they chose for the shows.

[4:39] Eila Mell: They are they are a couple of medleys, but they worked. I don't always love a medley.

[4:44] Bruce Gotlieb: Usually the medley kills the number.

[4:47] Eila Mell: But I thought Two Strangers did a great job with the medley because it got to showcase both of them. You know, that New York song is the best everybody knows and they had to do it. But also, you know, giving Christianity an opportunity to be featured more than just in that comedic interludes.

[5:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, was great.

[5:07] Eila Mell: Yeah. And they were both great. I thought it was a good showcase for the number. But I wonder if you had to have seen the show to get it because I talked to, you know, I was texting with a few people and one of them said, Well, they just unsold me on the show. Because maybe he didn't understand what the whole thing was about. So I don't know. I thought it was a good representation.

[5:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to ask somebody who hadn't seen it, I guess to see if that pushed them either direction, you know?

[5:32] Eila Mell: Yeah. I thought that Rocky Horror. I understand they wanted to feature Luke, but I felt like they could have they should have just done the Time Warp and take out the beginning part.

[5:47] Bruce Gotlieb: You know, I didn't mind the beginning because he's so good. But maybe just pick one. I don't know. It still didn't work for me. I mean, it's better than it was. And it, you know, but I still think the show is so problematic. But yeah, that's just me, I guess.

[6:02] Eila Mell: Were you surprised that Ragtime won?

[6:04] Bruce Gotlieb: I really was. I thought the momentum was fully in favor of Cats.

[6:09] Eila Mell: Yeah. And Cats was a big favorite in the room. You could see with all the fans.

[6:14] Bruce Gotlieb: That was well, I think everybody got fair.

[6:17] Eila Mell: But you know, you can also sort of gauge the moment by the cheering for the certain nominees and Cats always got a huge, huge ovation. But I was really, really glad that Jalen Levingston and Bill Rosh won for direction because they really just created that whole show.

[6:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, you know, we were speaking before of Two Strangers, I was disappointed that they didn't get any love. It was this season's little show that could and I thought that it really deserved it. I thought, you know, I make no secret that it was my favorite new show of the season. I thought it was just really, really well done the book especially. So I thought it could have gotten love sprinkled in somewhere.

[7:03] Eila Mell: It could have I wasn't surprised though. I think just, you know, maybe Happy Ending winning last year and being a similar sized show, I guess, kind of hurt it, you know, there's always a backlash. So, you know, they went a lot bigger this season.

[7:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Sure. So I don't know. I thought Shmigadoon was a good win for Best Musical.

[7:23] Eila Mell: It is a good win. You know, there are places where like, you know, score, you know, I know is something that has been contested.

[7:32] Bruce Gotlieb: It sure has. You know, the big winner of the night was Death of a Salesman.

[7:35] Eila Mell: Yeah. I mean, it's not often that a revival of a play is the most awarded show of the night. So how thrilling that Liberation won Best Play?

[7:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes. And so well deserved. So just was such a great play. And you know, we love talking with Best Wall. She's fantastic.

[7:52] Eila Mell: Yes. But so before we move on, yes. This being you're a fashion girl.

[8:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, yes. Who was your maybe two top looks?

[8:07] Eila Mell: I love Best Wall. I thought she looked great. Just really simple and gorgeous. And I also really loved Leslie Manville. I thought she looked beautiful.

[8:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, Leslie Manville was one of mine. And I also loved Christiani Pitts.

[8:20] Eila Mell: Yeah, she looked great. That dress she was wearing was just the perfect style. Coloring was great. It was really, really good.

[8:28] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I will say, you know, for the fashion police of it all. Sarah Paulson, what was she thinking?

[8:32] Eila Mell: Yeah, it wasn't good. But for me the hair was the big miss for her. I don't know.

[8:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Like you. Well, people hire a dresser or designer. And I'm sure she did. But she's very fashion forward. And when you are you take big risks. And that one didn't pay off. I mean, that looks like a dress. Well, that was clearly a runway dress. And it just, you know, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

[9:01] Eila Mell: That's true. Yeah. But shall we move on to things that definitely always work, which is Pluribus?

[9:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. I mean, this. Did you say this is the most watched Apple show of all time?

[9:09] Eila Mell: That is what I read. Yes. Wow. Well, it's well deserved. I love this show. It's sort of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, but modern and I don't know. It's Vince Gilligan, who did Breaking Bad, a little show and Better Call Saul. And this is, you know, it was so highly anticipated when it premiered. And our guest today has a major role on it. So let's bring him out first.

[9:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. We are so excited to welcome Carlos Manuel Vesga to our show.

[9:41] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Hello. How are you guys? I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

[9:46] Eila Mell: Yes. Well, to have you. Thank you for taking some time out of your busy day to join us.

[9:50] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Oh, no, no, no. It's my pleasure.

[9:55] Eila Mell: Well, I have to jump in. Do we know when Pluribus is coming back for season two yet?

[9:59] Carlos Manuel Vesga: We don't. Oh, I'm also waiting to hear from them to have a date or something. But it's I'm just so excited that is that is happening. You know, it's I mean, so you're a very familiar face in Colombia.

[10:19] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Yeah, I am.

[10:19] Eila Mell: Yeah. But not as much in this country. And to come in to, you know, to the United States and be on one of the most anticipated shows is just incredible. How did how did all this happen for you?

[10:32] Carlos Manuel Vesga: It was so improbable that I had, I never allowed myself to even dream about. I wish I could tell you guys that this is a dream come true. But it wasn't even a dream. I was this is something I've never even contemplated that that it could happen. I mean, back back home, I used to think, yeah, it'd be nice to work in the US and you know, to get a chance to work over there. But really, what are the chances that they're going to they are going to cast in Latin America for for role that maybe I can work? You know, that that it matches my looks my whatever I have to offer. And then they're gonna go through the whole thing of the paperwork for the visas. And you know, it's an effort. So I never really contemplated that, that possibility. And here I am. So it's just mind blowing. It's just surreal. Everything for me has been surreal.

[11:33] Eila Mell: And so Pluribus is created by Vince Gilligan, who obviously had one of the biggest hits ever with Breaking Bad. Was Breaking Bad something that was big in Colombia also?

[11:45] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Huge. I mean, it was really, really big. And then it was so big that in Colombia, they did an adaptation of the show.

[11:53] Eila Mell: Oh, interesting.

[11:53] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Which was actually supervised by Gordon Smith, one of my one of our directors, producers, writers, and he was in Bolivia supervising the Colombian version, which was called if I'm not mistaken, but how do you pronounce it?

[12:09] Eila Mell: Metastasis.

[12:09] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Metastasis. Yeah, like that. Right? Yeah.

[12:19] Eila Mell: Welcome back to Behind the Awards. Today, we have a fantastic guest joining us, Carlos Manuel Vesga, who is currently starring in the Apple TV series Pluribus.

[12:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, and we’re excited to dive into his experience working on the show, especially with Vince Gilligan and Rhea Seehorn.

[13:14] Eila Mell: Absolutely! Carlos has a rich background in both theater and television, and I can’t wait to hear about how he created his character, Manousos.

[13:42] Bruce Gotlieb: And speaking of characters, I think it’s interesting to see how actors bring their roles to life, especially in a series that has such a unique premise.

[14:10] Eila Mell: Right! And it’s always fascinating to hear the behind-the-scenes stories that come with those experiences.

[14:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Plus, we’ll also touch on some of the hits and misses of the upcoming 2026 Tony Awards later in the episode.

[15:05] Eila Mell: Yes, there’s a lot to discuss regarding the awards season and what we can expect.

[15:35] Bruce Gotlieb: But first, let’s welcome Carlos to the show!

[15:55] Eila Mell: Carlos, thank you for joining us today!

[16:20] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Thank you for having me! I’m excited to be here and talk about Pluribus.

[16:48] Eila Mell: So, let’s start with your character, Manousos. What was the process like for you in creating him?

[17:13] Carlos Manuel Vesga: It was quite an experience. I had a lot of discussions with Vince Gilligan about the character's background and motivations, which really helped shape Manousos.

[17:31] Bruce Gotlieb: That sounds incredible! Vince is known for his deep character development.

[18:01] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Exactly! He really encourages actors to explore their characters fully, which made it a rewarding process.

[18:21] Eila Mell: And how was it working alongside Rhea Seehorn? She’s such a talented actress.

[18:46] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Rhea is amazing! She brings so much energy to the set, and we had a great time collaborating on our scenes together.

[19:14] Bruce Gotlieb: It’s always great to hear about that kind of chemistry between actors.

[19:24] Eila Mell: Now, let’s shift gears a bit. Bruce, what are your thoughts on the upcoming Tony Awards?

[19:49] Carlos Manuel Vesga: I think it’s going to be an exciting year! There are so many incredible productions out there.

[20:19] Eila Mell: Definitely! There’s a lot of talent to celebrate, but there are also some surprises that could happen.

[20:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, and it’ll be interesting to see which shows and performances get recognized.

[21:09] Eila Mell: I think we’ll have some discussions about potential snubs as well, which always sparks debate.

[21:34] Bruce Gotlieb: For sure! The Tony Awards are never short on drama, both on and off the stage.

[22:04] Eila Mell: And speaking of drama, Carlos, what has been the most memorable moment for you while filming Pluribus?

[22:34] Carlos Manuel Vesga: There were so many! But one that stands out is a particular scene where I had to really dig deep emotionally. It was challenging but ultimately very fulfilling.

[22:54] Bruce Gotlieb: Those moments can really define a performance.

[23:22] Eila Mell: Absolutely! It’s those challenges that often lead to the most impactful work.

[23:52] Carlos Manuel Vesga: I completely agree. It’s all about pushing yourself as an actor.

[24:20] Eila Mell: Thank you for sharing that, Carlos. We’re looking forward to hearing more about your journey!

[24:39] Carlos Manuel Vesga: I believe that happiness is something that is endogenous. Happiness is inside of yourself. But we've been told that happiness is something that we can acquire outside ourselves in the form of things. Yeah. Mostly, if we possess things, we're gonna be happy. And I definitely disagree with that concept. I think we should focus on our inner selves. Yeah. You know, and as an artist, you know, your happiness, you find it inside yourself. So yeah, happiness is an amazing topic, is an amazing subject and something really we should talk about as humanity, as a society. Definitely. Yeah, it's so true because what we want can change from day to day, even. And it has to do with, most of the time, I think it has to do with ego.

You know, I want a new pair of shoes. I want a new nose, you know, and just because I want it, it has to be right. It's right because I want it. And if we would stop and think, do I really need a new nose? Maybe what I need is to look at myself from a different perspective and, you know, discover that I'm beautiful or that I actually look good, that I actually have a nice nose or whatever, or that existence is not about my profile or nose, you know?

[26:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, yeah.

[26:06] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Yeah, no, there's so much that can be, you know, you try to focus on all those positive attributes and the world would be a much kinder place if everyone did that, you know, especially, right? You know, even just the smallest of things, so. Yeah, if we all focused on what we need and not so much on what we want, I think the world would be, the world's a beautiful place, but it's a messed up place. I would think it'd be, yeah, it'd be just beautiful.

[26:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. You guys have the privilege of, and I don't know if there's something that was talked about on set, but prior to the season finale airing, Pluribus had become the most watched series in the platform history for Apple, surpassing Ted Lasso and Severance, which there are no slouches of TV shows. So that's got to feel like a really huge accomplishment as a group, you know, as a collective.

[27:02] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Yeah. I mean, we've been, I think we're blessed. We're blessed because we are the team that we are. It's just such a collection of beautiful human beings and ideal partners, creative partners. For me, I have to say, I mean, I was the guy who nobody knew who he was when I got there, when I got to set and I was, for me, it was like going to Mars, like stepping on an American set, being a Colombian actor and acting in a different language. I was, I was pretty nervous. I mean, I was, this, everything was new to me. And yet from the get go, everyone made me feel like I was part of the family. So we are blessed, I think. And, and also I think what the, what this show proposes, if you were to, if you were told without watching the series, if you were told what happens and the rhythm of the narrative, and I guess a description, a synopsis of what the show is about, you might think, hmm, is, is the current world going to go for this?

That is not playing for effect or just play for the thrill, but it's a slow burner and, and it demands attention. You, this is not the kind of show that you can cook while you're watching the show. You have to really sit down, watch the thing, take it in, you know, and in a world where most of the people are just looking for that dopamine shot constantly, you would go, hmm, is this going to work? So the fact that the reaction from the audience has been, has been so overwhelmingly positive, it gives you hope really for humanity, you know, just to know that people are still willing to go through the process, you know, so everything that has happened with, with the show and the reception from the audiences and also the recognition from, from awards and critics and, and journalists, I mean, it's been, again, it's, for me, it's been surreal.

You know, I was, I was a couple of days ago, I was in LA, and I was told that I was on a billboard somewhere in LA until they showed me pictures. I was like, no, no way. I'm not. So I took the time to go to the billboard and take some pictures of myself with the billboard, because if anybody, five years ago, would have told me, you're going to be at a billboard in LA, promoting a TV show by Vince Gilligan, you know, and it's going to be a picture of you and Rhea Seehorn. Right. I was, I would go like, come on. Don't do that. Don't say that. So, yeah, yeah, it's been, oh my God, it's been the gift of a life.

[30:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, you know, what also is such an accomplishment lately, you know, is that people are putting their phones down to watch the show, because otherwise they wouldn't know what's happening with your character.

[30:13] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Of course. So, you know, that's a big deal, because people don't do that so much anymore. Sadly, we don't. We are growing more and more attached to our phones and to the life, the quote unquote life that we have inside them. But I think we need to push back on that. I think we need to go back to the life that we had sitting across a table, you know, and having real conversations. And I think we have to go back to learn how to deal with frustration and learn how to deal with the process. You know, if you want to get to know someone, it is a process and it's going to be frustrating, but also it's going to be more rewarding. Nowadays, anything that implies a process, people are just not willing to go through that.

[31:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[31:10] Carlos Manuel Vesga: A book. Reading a book.

[31:12] Bruce Gotlieb: I know.

[31:13] Carlos Manuel Vesga: It's a process.

[31:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. Well, the show very much reminds me of our lives online, because, you know, there are these created sort of fake happiness versions of ourselves. And, you know, that's the society that the show is, you know, creating for Carol in her universe, in your universe, however you're rejecting it.

[31:27] Carlos Manuel Vesga: But it's true. And then again, if you think about it, they offer her whatever she wants. So we go back to what we want and what we need. They go, what do you want? Oh, I want a grenade. Okay, here's a grenade. You know, what do you want? Oh, I want to. And then, for instance, the other day, what do you want? Oh, I want some models and I want Air Force One. Okay.

[32:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[32:00] Carlos Manuel Vesga: There you go. Is that going to make you happy?

[32:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[32:04] Carlos Manuel Vesga: You know, I think Manousos, he doesn't have anything. And yet he has a purpose. When you see him crossing the Darien Gap, this guy, he doesn't have any food, he's hurt, he's injured. And yet he doesn't stop. He goes forward. He has a purpose. You know, so he is not surrounded by objects that he possesses. But I think the thing to reflect on is that he has a purpose and that keeps him going. And at the same point in the series, we got to Carol, who basically has anything she wants around her in terms of material stuff. Of course, she's lost Helen, but materially speaking, she has everything. And it's the scene where she's sitting in her driveway. And she's burning fireworks. And one of them seems to be pointing at her straight, straight at her face.

And you can see that in that moment, at least, there's no purpose and she's okay with dying. She's not going to move. If it hits her, it hits her. And so we have the two faces of the coin. You have one guy who's in the middle of a jungle with nothing, no food, no water. And yet he has a purpose, so he's moving. In a way, we could say that he's evolving. And on the other hand, you have one that has, quote unquote, everything material that she could wish for. And that doesn't give her a purpose. There's a lot of things to learn about this show. I mean, it addresses so many existential subjects.

[34:10] Bruce Gotlieb: But Manousos has nothing by choice because he could have food. So is that a cultural difference, do you think, that he doesn't want to just accept what they're giving him because he doesn't trust and where Carol is used to living a bit easier?

[34:31] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Well, I think they definitely come from different backgrounds. We don't really know Manousos' backstory.

[34:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[34:39] Carlos Manuel Vesga: But you can tell, I mean, he doesn't have a dream job. He just runs a storage facility. But he seems to be okay with that. And he does it with a lot of pride. He really takes pride in doing his job and doing it well. And we don't know why he had to leave Colombia. But whatever the circumstances, being a migrant is not an easy situation.

[35:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, exactly.

[35:10] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Inevitably, it involves loss and uncertainty and anguish and pain and hard work. And so the situation for him is not that he lost a lot with the joining. It's that for him, I guess, this is me speculating, but for him, it's like, okay, I lost everything once before, not again. I'm not gonna have this done to me again. So I'm gonna fight back. And I'm not gonna let this injustice stand. Whereas you could tell you can tell that that Carol has had some, some hard times, especially with her sexuality. We know the story of the summer camp where they want to write, they sent her as a child to be corrected to be rectified. So we can tell that she's had some hard times. But but to begin with, she's a citizen of the US. That is a privilege in the world by itself. You know, wealthy one, too.

[36:20] Bruce Gotlieb: And she's a wealthy person. She's done well. She has success. So I guess again, as I was talking to Jeff last night, we are talking about privileges that she lost. You know, so I think that's, that might be the explanation why she gives in. But also there's the grief. You know, she's she lost Helen and she needs when we when we're in that kind of pain. I think it's easier to to fall for some some comfort to to really give in.

[37:58] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Something about that in him, I would say. It seems to me like this show is very much a cautionary tale about where we're headed with AI. Is that something that you discuss? I remember that was my first take on it. I think I talked about it with Vince that for me was, I was like, is this a metaphor for AI? It definitely reminds me of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, where people are controlled not by a repressive sort of scary establishment, but rather, they are controlled by being convinced that they are actually happy, which is far more dark and scary than, I don't know, for instance, 1984, where you have the big brother who controls everything and people are repressed and are scared of the establishment. No. If you convince people that they are actually living the best life that they can live, then you got them. That's really scary. And I think that's what's going on right now.

[39:06] Eila Mell: Yeah. In some of the conversations you're having now, if you do know, you might not be able to say, but are you guys starting to develop what will happen in the next season? I'm assuming there's a lot of anticipation.

[39:16] Carlos Manuel Vesga: We can only speculate because they haven't told us anything. We can only speculate. Honestly, I sit and think about that atom bomb and I cannot come up with an answer. Really, what are they going to do? I know. I'm like, are they going to use the uranium for something? Are they going to take it apart? Because they couldn't even activate the thing. It would mean the others to, I don't know, to set it up in some plane and fly the plane to drop it somewhere. I just know that the team, the writers team, the writers room is just full of the most creative people. So, they're going to come up with something amazing. I would love to know what is up with that radio frequency that Venusus finds. What is that about?

[40:11] Eila Mell: So many questions, I know. And shows like this never do anything just for casual sake of doing. Again, it's not for effect. It's not for just the thrill of, oh, it's an atom bomb. No, I'm sure they're going to develop that into something else. Or for instance, I want to know what's up with that relationship with his mother, Manousos's mother. What is up with that? I mean, that has to have some sort of effect on the person that he is. A huge effect, right?

[40:49] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Yeah. And Soledad, the actress who performed, who played Manousos's mom, oh, she's such a lovely, lovely lady. And I think she managed to portray this absolutely sweet and yet creepy, such a creepy mother. Oh, my God.

[41:06] Eila Mell: So good. What do fans think of the show? When they come up to you, what do they say? What do they want to know?

[41:12] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Well, the first thing they say is that they love the show and that they are very grateful for the show. And that is just amazing. As I said, in the contemporary world, that somebody would come up to you and say, you know what? I couldn't stop watching. This is something that we needed and that we appreciate very much. And then you have, I love that people, most of the time, they thank you, they say they love the show, and then they tell you what they think it's about.

[41:40] Eila Mell: That's interesting.

[41:41] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Because everybody has an interpretation of what the show is about. And I think that, again, I feel like, OK, our job is done. If we have, if you have people thinking, last night we were talking about it, and I know that Pluribus is very entertaining. It can be entertaining. But I think it goes beyond entertainment and into the territory of art, you know, where art is about changing your angle on human experience and presenting you with a different perspective on human existence, thus making you sort of rethink your own existence, you know. And in that way, I think Pluribus is both. It's entertainment, but it's also art. And I would say it's something like maybe 20, 25% entertainment, and then the rest is art.

The rest is about leaving the audience with questions and prompting them and moving them into ask existential questions about their own existence. So, everyone that approaches you about Pluribus has been moved into those questions. And I absolutely love that.

[42:57] Eila Mell: Do you shoot in New Mexico?

[42:59] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Yes, I think. Well, we did. I was there for 10 months and then a month in the Canary Islands. I know that we're going back to New Mexico for season two, but you never know if there's, you know, if they're going to go, I don't know, they're going to visit Lakshmi in India or I don't know.

[43:17] Eila Mell: Right. But I love that Vince Gilligan is so tied to New Mexico. It's just, he likes working with the same people and it's just, yeah.

[43:29] Carlos Manuel Vesga: I mean, it speaks very well of him. It speaks about his, like the, that he really, he's very fond of New Mexico and he's very grateful and he's very aware of the things that Albuquerque and the state have given him in the past.

[43:46] Eila Mell: Right. And in turn, I'm sure it's become much more of a tourist destination.

[43:52] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Oh yes, of course. I mean, both sides are getting, have gotten a lot from each other, right?

[43:59] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[43:59] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can tell once you're in Albuquerque, you can feel the Breaking Bad gratefulness, you know.

[44:06] Eila Mell: And Better Call Saul too is fantastic.

[44:08] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Of course, people are, I think those two shows put Albuquerque in the map.

[44:13] Eila Mell: Oh yeah. Really.

[44:15] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Right, because it was a city that we had heard of, but now we got to see it and we got to, you know, get a feel for what it's really like.

[44:22] Eila Mell: And to be honest, people got to see how beautiful that place is. New Mexico, I had never been and I can understand that people would fall in love with the place.

[44:31] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Yeah, I'm sure it's gorgeous in a way that I just can't even imagine.

[44:35] Eila Mell: It's endless, but if you haven't been, take the time, visit because it's gorgeous.

[44:40] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Being someone who's, you know, grew up and is still living in New York, you know, you don't really think about what life is like in a place like that.

[44:51] Eila Mell: True.

[44:52] Carlos Manuel Vesga: And also in American media, most things take place in New York, LA or Chicago. That's pretty much it.

[45:00] Eila Mell: True. I mean, for me, it was kind of like that because I grew up in Volatil, which is a very urban environment.

[45:06] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Yeah.

[45:06] Eila Mell: It's pavement, you know, and bricks. And I love that. I love that. But something like New Mexico, the landscape is just, it really takes your breath away. It really does.

[45:18] Eila Mell: So while you're on hiatus from the show, is there any chance we might see you on a New York stage at some point?

[45:25] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Oh, I would love that. I would love that. Now, at the moment, I'm doing a playback home in Columbia.

[45:31] Eila Mell: Ah, what are you doing?

[45:32] Carlos Manuel Vesga: We're doing an adaptation of a French contemporary piece. It's called By the Tip of Your Nose. That's a translation from the French, but I think it's an expression that means something like wrapped around your finger.

[45:48] Eila Mell: OK.

[45:49] Carlos Manuel Vesga: It's a two-hander. It's an hour and a half of my partner and myself just hammering away. So it's quite a marathon. And I'm going to be doing that until the end of July. I would love to come to New York and do some theater here. I would love to do that.

[46:06] Eila Mell: Yeah, we would love it, too.

[46:08] Carlos Manuel Vesga: So I hope it happens at some point. That would, for me, that would be that I dreamt of, you know, that would be a dream come true because that I really, when I was a student here in New York, when I was training as an actor, I mean, that was the thing that I wanted to do. I would dream of just being here in New York and knowing that come the evening, I would have to go to the theater and perform. That would be a dream come true, definitely.

[46:40] Eila Mell: Well, we'll put it out there into the ether for whoever to pick up on.

[46:44] Carlos Manuel Vesga: That's right.

[46:45] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[46:46] Carlos Manuel Vesga: That's right. When you were studying here as a student, did you get to go to theater often?

[46:51] Carlos Manuel Vesga: I did. Not as much as I would have liked, because I was on a budget. I was a theater student budget. But I did. I remember this was a long time ago. And I do remember that around the corner from the school, I went to Strasbury's. There was an Argentinian group doing a residency that were called De La Guarda. And it was this performatic, very sort of vanguard performatic production. And I saw it. I don't remember if it was three times or more than once. Definitely. Also, I have to say music is my passion. And so in New York, I mean, you can't go wrong, right?

[47:35] Eila Mell: Right. That's right.

[47:37] Carlos Manuel Vesga: So I remember going to a lot of concerts. It's sad that I didn't have the money to watch everything that I would have liked. But you know what? I would like to investigate more on the sort of fringy scene, the fringy theater scene. I would love to know more about that.

[47:56] Eila Mell: Yeah. Well, you should come and write for it.

[47:58] Carlos Manuel Vesga: That's right. There's plenty to sink your teeth into.

[48:01] Eila Mell: Yes.

[48:01] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Definitely.

[48:03] Eila Mell: And tell Vince Gilligan. He needs to get involved in theater. He can produce some great stuff here.

[48:08] Carlos Manuel Vesga: You know what? I'm going to have that conversation.

[48:11] Eila Mell: Why not?

[48:12] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Excellent. Because, I mean, he is such a master storyteller.

[48:15] Eila Mell: Oh my God. Yes. Wouldn't that be nice to have him write something for the theater?

[48:22] Carlos Manuel Vesga: I mean, yeah. It would sell out immediately.

[48:25] Eila Mell: I'm sure. I'm sure.

[48:28] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Well, thank you for spending so much time with us. We are so looking forward to whenever it comes, Pluribus Season 2. But everyone can watch Season 1. I told you before we came on that I re-watched the finale last night. And it's just now I want to go back and re-watch the whole season because it's hard to take just one episode. You just want more and more of it.

[48:51] Carlos Manuel Vesga: True. True. Thank you guys for having me. I am at your service anytime. Just let me know and I'll be here. I love the conversation. Please.

[49:00] Eila Mell: Oh, we would love to have you back. So thank you.

[49:03] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Thank you, guys. It was lovely to meet you. And hopefully I'll see you soon again.

[49:07] Eila Mell: Yes. And we will see everyone next time on Behind the Awards.

[49:10] Carlos Manuel Vesga: Lovely. Lovely. You guys take care.