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[0:00] Eila Mell: Hello, and welcome to Behind the Awards. I'm Eila. I'm here with my trusty Bruce.

[0:18] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm good. I'm so glad that you finally saw Are You Now? Or Have You Ever Been?

[0:26] Eila Mell: Yes, at the time of recording, I got to see it with the latest guest starring group, which they started on the 13th. The group that's in now, the guest stars, Norbert Leo Butz, T.R. Knight, our former guest, Harry Lennox, Bob Odenkirk, and Molly Ringwald.

[0:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Molly Ringwald.

[0:53] Eila Mell: She looked phenomenal, Bruce.

[0:56] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, I missed her.

[0:58] Eila Mell: She looked just great.

[0:59] Bruce Gotlieb: I saw Sally Murphy.

[1:00] Eila Mell: Yeah, I'm sure.

[1:01] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, nice.

[1:01] Eila Mell: I'm sure, yeah. I mean, Sally was great, but I would have, you know, the kid in me would have loved to see Molly.

[1:08] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it's a really interesting construct for the piece.

[1:13] Eila Mell: Yeah, explain to people what it is.

[1:16] Bruce Gotlieb: So it is the hearings that took place between this government committee against communism.

[1:23] Eila Mell: Right, the House Un-American Activities.

[1:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Correct. And they're interviewing various actors and writers and people that were known, or at least allegedly known, to have been members of the party.

[1:38] Eila Mell: Whatever that meant at the time.

[1:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Correct. A lot of people, you know, went to meetings just trying to find out what it even was. Like, I know my grandmother went, and she certainly wasn't, you know, a typical communist. She just went to see what it was all about.

[1:55] Eila Mell: Well, and it's funny because the way the show opens up, one of the first people that get interviewed is the character that T.R. Knight plays.

[2:04] Bruce Gotlieb: And they asked him, you know, have you ever attended a meeting? And he's like, yes.

[2:08] Eila Mell: Yes, so many people did.

[2:10] Bruce Gotlieb: I was curious. I thought that it might serve some needs that I was looking for.

[2:16] Eila Mell: And, you know, he just genuine curiosity.

[2:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[2:20] Eila Mell: And they said, well, why did you stop going? He said because it wasn't what I thought it was going to be.

[2:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. I don't agree with it.

[2:27] Eila Mell: Yeah, right.

[2:31] Bruce Gotlieb: Sorry, I just wanted to tell people he played the actor Larry Parks.

[2:34] Eila Mell: Yes, correct.

[2:36] Bruce Gotlieb: But, you know, they keep needling and needling and needling and it's.

[2:40] Eila Mell: Right. It's almost like when the police interrogate people for like 24 hours and they get, you know, a false confession out of them because they just keep berating them.

[2:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. And then at some point, I would imagine it doesn't come across this way, but it's almost like you convince them what they want to happen happened, you know?

[3:02] Eila Mell: Right.

[3:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, maybe I did go because, you know, it gives you that, you know.

[3:06] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[3:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Plausible, like, did this happen? Did it happen that way?

[3:12] Eila Mell: But also, you know, like we have to say that these were not people who were anti-America.

[3:17] Bruce Gotlieb: No.

[3:18] Eila Mell: These were just people who are open minded and they wanted to, you know, to learn about, you know, and maybe they disagreed with what was happening politically at the time, which is our rights as Americans. And many people went to jail because they wouldn't name names.

[3:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Correct. Yeah. So it's interesting. Norbert Leo Butz played Abe Burroughs, who, you know, everybody knows.

[3:41] Eila Mell: Right.

[3:42] Bruce Gotlieb: His son, Jim Burroughs, the Emmy winning director, just passed.

[3:46] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[3:47] Bruce Gotlieb: But like, you know, that's a household name. It's not like you're hearing names and some of the names that come up in conversation.

[3:54] Eila Mell: Yeah. Lionel Sander is one of the people. I mean, yes, so many. So when I saw it, it was Scott Adsit, who was a regular on 30 Rock, if you don't know his name.

[4:05] Bruce Gotlieb: He was great as Abe Burroughs.

[4:07] Eila Mell: Oh, wonderful.

[4:08] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[4:09] Eila Mell: And you also had Andrew McCarthy was in your cast.

[4:11] Bruce Gotlieb: No, I didn't see Andrew McCarthy. I saw the second cast.

[4:14] Eila Mell: Oh, the second cast. My apologies.

[4:16] Bruce Gotlieb: I don't know. Do we know who Andrew McCarthy even played?

[4:20] Eila Mell: Uh, no, I don't. That group was David Krumholtz, Andrew McCarthy, J.O. Sanders. He would have to. I would think that maybe.

[4:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Andrew also played the director.

[4:35] Eila Mell: Larry Parks, he could have.

[4:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Maybe just typewise looking, you know, how T.R. Knight and Andrew could have been.

[4:43] Eila Mell: I know, but it's hard because they can be sort of interchangeable.

[4:48] Bruce Gotlieb: They can be.

[4:48] Eila Mell: Because they're all, you know, they're all similar men around the same age at the same time in history.

[4:55] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. So and Brooks Natchmanskis, Jason Babinski, Stephen Boyer, Adam Cantor, Frederick Weller and Michael McKean are the group that's always there, no matter who the guest stars are.

[5:07] Eila Mell: Right.

[5:08] Bruce Gotlieb: And they're all fantastic.

[5:09] Eila Mell: Yes.

[5:13] Bruce Gotlieb: And most of them play many, many roles.

[5:13] Eila Mell: Yes.

[5:17] Bruce Gotlieb: And it's really impressive how they just go from one to another, you know, maybe like with just one person in between them.

[5:20] Eila Mell: Yeah. And even just like with a hat placement or just a change slightly in their dialect or cadence. So really, really quite impressive.

[5:32] Bruce Gotlieb: And the dialogue, most of it, like 95% of the dialogue is the actual transcripts of these hearings, which is really fascinating.

[5:42] Eila Mell: And not only fascinating, but also impressive when you're watching these actors, because it's not like conversational dialogue where if you feel like you maybe get lost in the weeds, you can you're having a conversation, you can work your way out. A lot of these are just paragraphs and monologues or just quick interjections or a name. It's like you're pulling this stuff out of thin air to create the environment.

[6:08] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. I mean, it's such a an opportunity for actors. It's this is maybe some of the best acting you're going to see on stage right now.

[6:18] Eila Mell: It's so I mean, these actors have every part is so meaty.

[6:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it's quite special.

[6:24] Eila Mell: A really, you know, simple set, but effective.

[6:28] Bruce Gotlieb: Really, really well done.

[6:30] Eila Mell: Intimate environment.

[6:31] Bruce Gotlieb: The projections are especially important in telling you who these people are in real life.

[6:37] Eila Mell: Exactly.

[6:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly.

[6:39] Eila Mell: And, you know, I found it also helpful so that we didn't feel like because you could feel almost like you're in the courtroom watching a trial, which how how interesting is that?

[6:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[6:49] Eila Mell: Visually. But when you have the flashes of the different things, it gives you something else not to focus on, but to help immerse yourself in the space, which I found helpful.

[7:00] Bruce Gotlieb: What's so interesting is that it really you know, it's the actual testimony of these people. And you would think, oh, my gosh, a hearing and how boring is that? But it's not.

[7:10] Eila Mell: It's thrilling.

[7:11] Bruce Gotlieb: It's like edge of your seat kind of thing.

[7:13] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[7:14] Bruce Gotlieb: No bad seat in it.

[7:15] Eila Mell: It's no, that's really nice.

[7:17] Bruce Gotlieb: It's at the the small theater downstairs at City Center.

[7:21] Eila Mell: Really nice, intimate.

[7:22] Bruce Gotlieb: But the rake is great. So if you're on the side in the back, it really doesn't matter where you are. You'll have a great seat.

[7:27] Eila Mell: Yeah, I got to see the wonderful Billy Eugene Jones play Paul Robeson. And you saw Harry Lennox.

[7:35] Bruce Gotlieb: I can imagine Billy was great.

[7:37] Eila Mell: I know we spoke about how wonderful he was.

[7:39] Bruce Gotlieb: And Harry Lennox was just fantastic.

[7:42] Eila Mell: Yeah, well, Harry Lennox is more physically the right type, but they're both incredible actors.

[7:49] Bruce Gotlieb: So the group that's there now, they're there through August 2nd. But we do know that there are future dates to be announced because we know that Santino Fantana and Steven Pascal are both set to come in.

[8:05] Eila Mell: I mean, they're going to kill it.

[8:06] Bruce Gotlieb: And the show runs through September 11th. So we know there's probably even some names to be announced that we don't even know yet.

[8:15] Eila Mell: Right.

[8:15] Bruce Gotlieb: But I mean, the core cast is is worth. I mean, Michael McKeon is on stage for almost the entire show, and he's so good. I mean, it's just like when he's on stage, everything's so easy. You know, it's just I don't know. He's so seasoned and just you love watching him.

[8:35] Eila Mell: Yeah, there there's really no weak link.

[8:38] Bruce Gotlieb: No, the show itself is so tight.

[8:42] Eila Mell: And because it has to be because of, I guess, how it is so.

[8:46] Bruce Gotlieb: And it's a quick watch. It flies by.

[8:49] Eila Mell: Yeah, no intermission.

[8:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[8:51] Eila Mell: You're in, you're out.

[8:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Grab a bite.

[8:54] Eila Mell: That's it.

[8:56] Bruce Gotlieb: I would see it again just to see another cast and our friend Bill Timoney and and our Noah Pysak.

[9:03] Eila Mell: Yeah, they're both understudying in the show, and they've both gone on. I know Bill is going to be on playing a Burroughs August 29th and 30th. So I'm going to hopefully go back and see him in it.

[9:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[9:17] Eila Mell: So if anyone wants to see him.

[9:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[9:19] Eila Mell: And then you never know who you might also get in that mix because they haven't announced exactly yet. But all my children fans, if you want to see Bill, he played Alfred on all my children for years.

[9:30] Bruce Gotlieb: So maybe Susan will be there.

[9:32] Eila Mell: Oh, well, if only.

[9:34] Bruce Gotlieb: If only.

[9:35] Eila Mell: She might.

[9:36] Bruce Gotlieb: You never know.

[9:38] Eila Mell: All right, Burroughs. Speaking of movies and movie stars.

[9:42] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[9:43] Eila Mell: We had a really wonderful chance to have a conversation about dance movies.

[9:48] Bruce Gotlieb: We had such a great conversation with Breton Tyner Bryan.

[9:51] Eila Mell: I can't wait to have her come out and have everyone listen and keep a list. We list our favorites.

[9:56] Bruce Gotlieb: Let's hear yours.

[9:57] Eila Mell: I know.

[9:58] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[9:59] Eila Mell: Let us know. Shoot us a message on Instagram.

[10:02] Bruce Gotlieb: This is Montego Glover.

[10:06] Eila Mell: And behind the awards, we'll be right back.

[10:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, Eila, I am very excited to welcome my friend Breton Tyner Bryan to our show.

[10:16] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Hello.

[10:18] Eila Mell: Hello.

[10:19] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Thanks. I'm so excited. Boy, it's been a while since we've seen each other.

[10:24] Eila Mell: Indeed.

[10:25] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Indeed. So nice to reconnect at this time.

[10:26] Eila Mell: Yes. So is this the project that you were telling me about back then? Your movie, Rhythm or Smooth?

[10:33] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Yes, indeed.

[10:33] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[10:33] Breton Tyner-Bryan: So it's really fun to see it come full circle and get to chat about it with you today.

[10:37] Eila Mell: It's so funny. I mean, not funny, but, you know, interesting how these projects take so long.

[10:42] Breton Tyner-Bryan: So, you know, we're going to talk about dance and movies in general, but I want to talk about your movie specifically right now.

[10:50] Eila Mell: So give us a bit of a primer about this.

[10:54] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Sure. So Rhythm or Smooth is set in present-day New York City, and it's about an African-American woman in her early 20s who comes from an affluent background on the Upper East Side, and she befriends sort of a down-and-out ballroom champion who's working as an escort at a society ball, and the two pair up. They don't win the championship, but what they find is that, you know, along the way, the real reward is dancing together. And it's very much a commentation on New York City appetite, ego, hustle, and how all worlds sort of need each other and how we come together, I think, in many ways in New York to support the arts, but also to enjoy them.

[11:28] Eila Mell: Well, Rocky didn't win in the first movie.

[11:30] Breton Tyner-Bryan: That's true, I've seen it.

[11:32] Eila Mell: But I also like that, you know, so right off the bat, you know, it tells me that it incorporates different styles of dance, which I love.

[11:40] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Yes, indeed. We have some of the world champions in the ballroom community. We're so lucky to have a number of couples that are in the film, some that are heavily featured, and just to get to work with artists at that level is like such a delight. And I love a heel. I love a shoe. I love a leg. I love a line. I love sparkles, hips, and spots. So while I did grow up in the ballet world, I'm probably like the biggest fan of ballroom dance. So getting to write and direct in that space and be around artists like that is just like the greatest high.

[12:08] Eila Mell: And did you choreograph it also?

[12:10] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Um, I did not. My dear friend Jared Farquhan choreographed it. And I'm very grateful that I wasn't wearing that hat for this large-scale production. But having choreographed like many musicals and coming out of a live theatrical background, getting to work closely with a choreographer in that way, there's so much synergy because I know what it's like to be in their position. And we have an incredible relationship. So I think there's a shorthand that was developed that allowed us to kind of create the best thing we wanted. Often there was lots of pointing and looking and moving and going because we didn't have so much time to talk. But watching monitors, we're very clear on the adjustments we wanted to make. And at the end of the day, we both want everyone to look their best. So it's like there's a very easy way of just kind of clicking in that we know that's the goal. And I love that. You know, we're just kind of polishing everybody. And I love doing it.

[13:02] Eila Mell: How hard is it as a dancer? Obviously, you come from certain backgrounds, you know, whether you're growing up and you're taking tap ballet, whatever the case might be. But in this, I guess, this time, if you're trying to perform on Broadway or if you're trying to make it into a film, most of the time, while you might need a specific special,

[13:22] Breton Tyner-Bryan: You also need to be really well-rounded as just a dancer for yourself, maybe as easiest to speak, or maybe as a director. What did you look for that specific like ballroom aficionado? Or did you need people who could handle ballroom, but also could handle other concepts?

[13:39] I mean, yeah, well, I was definitely looking for people that are comfortable in their skin, because the camera is going to pick up all of that energy. And what you're looking, especially for some of the Latin club scenes, as well as one of the other competition scenes, I'm looking for people that love what they're doing and exude that at a high technical level. So I mean, it's, we're really looking for actors and dancers that are combined into one. It's really interesting to also just, you know, being at the front of the room and reviewing people on whether it's actors access or whoever's auditioning, and whether it's in person or digital, you're it's very aware of who grabs the camera, and who understands how to do that.

[14:17] So there's a, there's a magic switch. And I don't think it's something you necessarily teach, I think you're watching the soul on display. So while you while it is very important, as you said, to be like multifaceted and to be very diverse in your dance background, I think you're still looking for the love affair, you're still looking for the person that loves it in a split second, because we all feel that I know you guys feel it too, because you've been a long time. And so that's the magic I was looking for, for sure. And that's always been my compass to that's, that's who I am as a performer. And I think that's who I'm attracted to in any artistic medium is you're watching someone, you're watching someone sort of at their spiritual best, and it can happen in a split second, whether they're musicians, or designers, or choreographers, or dancers, but that they're in love with that moment. And they it's so contagious, because they pull you in as well.

[15:05] That being said, we were so spoiled to work with, like, really the best dancers in the world, in the ballroom community, and also in New York City. So I think, you know, we we had that pot to choose from that, that allowed for a level of excellence across the board for casting. But I mean, I could talk about dancers all day. I just I love this. It is something though, like you said, that spark when you sit, I know for me, when I sit down to see a Broadway show, and of course, you're going to be focused on whoever the leads might be, because they're the narration of the story. But you know, there are those times where you're sitting and you're watching an ensemble number or something.

And there's that one person in you know, the back corner, that is giving everything like close to everything that they have. And you can't take your eyes off of them. And it's true in film, too. There is somebody that can just catch you and you can't. That's your focus. I have like chills, literally as you mean, there's a couple of performers I'm thinking about. And yeah, it's that magic switch.

[16:05] And I think it's so far from ego, I would love to point that out that that it has nothing to do with that, even though they are selling joy in that moment. They're just kind of shining with their hearts delight. And that was a conversation I actually had with some of people that were sort of our ensemble dancers in the Latin club scene, I was like, you're not ensemble, I need you all to perform as leads, I need you to know your leads, you're that valuable, you contribute to the scene that height level, regardless of whether or not you have dialogue. And I think that's an important freedom switch to for dancers, because I was that lead that never blended in well in the core. And I love for me, I sort of across my, my dancing experience in the past, like two decades, there were directors that encouraged us in some of the companies I was in that, that there is no on while you are ensemble, you're all leads. And if you can unite at that high level, the vibration of the performance is so much higher.

[16:57] So that was, that was definitely a really great switch that happened with some of our dancers in the Latin club scene, because they're phenomenal. But I was like, I don't want you to blend, don't blend. So please, because you're not how you guys are, you know, it's like, we didn't hire you to, to be less than you are, we hired you to be exactly who you are. So I think when you get the casting right to, you can just turn people loose to shine with their talent and their joy. All right, well, we're gonna talk about our favorite moments, or dance movies, or you know, it's, it's a wide range. But is there a secret? Because live dance is so thrilling when it's done, right. But is there a secret to capturing that magic on film with dance?

[17:31] I would say 100%. And it's, it's something we've been, we've been like, really, really fine finite with this process as we've been finishing post, I think, for me, it's about what you want to capture is the emotion. And then you need somebody, you know, in the director's seat, who understands technically the lines and shapes that we're looking for. And you're balancing that geometry with the emotional arc of the dance. And so that it's not always full body wide. And it's not always a close up on a jawline. It's you're really looking for the balance. And the balance is quite poetic based on the emotional arc of that scene or that choreography. And it's, it's sort of a pacing thing of like, how long can I look at a wide shot until I need to feel something intimate from the scene emotionally? And how long do I before I really need to see full body to honor what the dancers are doing to honor the choreography of the moment to honor like their decades of training?

[18:19] I think other pieces that, you know, working with people that have a movement background, have a sports background, have an action background, they have an understanding in the editing chair of how to put those pieces together, so that you're not sort of just dialing it in like a formula that you're honoring the choreography at its highest level. And that is your goal. So again, like it's a number of pieces in terms of like actors performance, technical capability, but also the technical capability of the DP to me is everything. I always think about really camera as another partner. And I'm sort of pulling and painting like a paintbrush against or with the movement to accentuate it.

[18:50] I think if you're going to do dance on camera, the opportunity is to like have the dance be larger than life in a different scale than you have for theatrical. So, so it's sort of your job to enhance whether we're taking a lift and, and I'm asking not only asking choreographer to go, you know, five rotations instead of three, but what we're doing with camera is to accentuate the emotional feeling of flight. So it's leaning into the medium for for all of what it can do and then pushing that as far as we can go. But, but again, it's not meant to diminish the choreography in any way, because to me, the choreography is sort of the, the it is the bones, it is the lines, in many ways, it is the narrative structure. So understanding that it's not just aesthetic, that it really is emotionally driven. And then I think you get the best blend of camera and dance together.

[19:35] All right, well, let's let's get to it. I have a list of some movies, and we're going to bounce them off you and get your feedback on these. And hopefully, you know, all of them, everything is going to say everything is great. Don't do that. All right. So Bruce, do you mind if I start us off?

[19:55] Bruce Gotlieb: Go for it.

[20:02] Eila Mell: I'm going to start off with maybe my favorite dance movie of all time, which is All That Jazz. Amazing. I especially love that opening sequence with the audition. And when I mean, you said it when they're literally the dancers are flying in on camera. It's amazing. Is that an influence of yours?

[20:19] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I would say for sure. And I what's interesting looking backlessly getting the opportunity to do press at the beginning of this experience with Rhythm or Smooth is that I realized I met dance in many ways through cinema with whether it was, you know, all of the Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals that I was lucky. I mean, under age five, I think I was seeing them on screen at the same time my dad was taking me to live theater and opera and ballet. But I I'm very aware that actually, like under age five, I was experiencing dance through cinema. And then, you know, really what whatever was on PBS, I had access to. So that piece was coming through to I think that was that was really connecting me to Broadway and then the circle around to cinema and something like All That Jazz.

[20:59] So I had access to that canon of musical writers and musical choreographers and directors through basically through PBS. So shout out to PBS. I think there's no way at this point in my life to divorce that influence of getting to see dance and really sort of probably being one of the only people in my family that was staying up late to watch dance on television. So I sort of like I'm sure you guys I was I was like, get out of here. I need this. I want this. So I think the again, like we're talking about with those dancers I've directed, that immediate desire to connect with the energy I was seeing, I think, is probably a profound influence. And I don't know how I don't I'm not going to say I am Pup Pupsy in any way, but I completely resonate with that aesthetic.

[21:37] And I think just because of the focus on line and narrative to me and sort of the pulling in or expanding of the heart space and the pelvis and that there's a tension in there that just completely resonates with what I love to see and how I love to move to. But I think it's probably my ballet background coming into play.

[21:58] Eila Mell: All right, Bruce, you're up.

[22:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Speaking of ballet, one of my favorite and some people will call it a guilty pleasure. And there are have been rumors for years about adaptation of a stage musical interstage. One of my favorites.

[22:09] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Well, I mean, I grew up on it. I was running around city that's, you know, with ballet dancers at the time that film was made. So I for me, when it came out, there was not sorry, I totally interrupted. I'm like, I love go for it.

[22:24] Um, I mean, there for me at that time in my life, when that came out, there was nothing else like it. I had an experience like it. And it got to the heartbeat of like, what it's like to be in New York at that age, all of like the possibility of the heartbreak, the hustle, the excitement and like, can you make it in New York?

[22:40] Right. And I mean, yeah, but please, like, please continue.

[22:45] Bruce Gotlieb: I love Center Stage.

[22:46] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Yeah, no, I thought, you know, it gave you it gave you things that you knew, right, the Lincoln Center, you knew where you were, when they were taking the class at steps, or, you know, whatever that was supposed to be. And then people you knew, like, you know, Donna Murphy and Peter Gallagher. So you had like, real touch points of Broadway on your on your screen with a pop and contemporary vibe, you know, it just it blended so many things. So for me, I remember just being like, I know, I know this, I'm not a dancer. So I don't know this world. But I feel like I know this world. So it gave you that energy and that power that you were describing earlier in cinema.

[23:31] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Well, I think you bring up a good point, too, because the talent, you know, you had like Sasha, you had Zoe, you had Ethan, so you had ballet stars that were in there that were night after night on stage, just, you know, killing it at the highest level. And so I think what's so cool about that movie is it made you want to watch to see what is the stage show going to look like. And I think that's so beautiful, because it pulls an audience into the value of going to live theater, or live dance, and that you wanted to see what that what's it like those artists to like, put all that work in and make it on stage and, and also the backstage elements of like, parental dynamics, school dynamics, just like, like to live in New York City and walk down the street, try to feed yourself, do your laundry as a young person.

[24:09] And also what it's like to go downtown and get lost into different worlds. And then to sort of make it back to class. For the reason you're in New York City, or one of the reasons you're in New York City in the first place. But I thought what was so cool is that you had, you had ballet stars at that time, sort of on display, but also in an accessible way. Because you know, they were they were actively participating in the companies they were dancing for that time. But yeah, I love that movie. I love the tension of it, too. I, I, I like when the dark and light is on display, I wouldn't say and I feel the same way about like Black Swan, hopefully, I didn't jump, jump the gun, but because I've lived in those worlds. So I love when there's an authentic representation of them. But, but there's still like, you can you can win the day in New York City, because that's what New York City is all about.

[25:04] And, and that coming to, you know, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere, you know, it's that, you know, yeah, coming to just fight for that dream that you have.

[25:12] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Absolutely. And I think that's what's so beautiful and contagious about New York is regardless of whether it's dance or theater or music. Everybody who comes here is pretty much doing that in their field. And I think that's, that's really exciting energy to be around.

[25:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[25:17] Breton Tyner-Bryan: But yeah, I love Center Stage.

[25:19] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm gonna see that ballet movie and raise you with my own ballet movie, The Turning Point.

[25:26] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Oh, sure. Yeah.

[25:27] Bruce Gotlieb: I mean, Baryshnikov, it is prime. That's it. That's all you need to know.

[25:31] Breton Tyner-Bryan: And, and the other stars too that are in that world. I mean, they're just there. I mean, I have chills like thinking about it. But I think there's some of the best dancers in the world and to get to see them at the time. But again, you're seeing scale like you get what it's like to be a dancer, and then be a dancer on that, whether it's the Met stage or whichever theater it is, like, I think that's what's so exciting, because I grew up getting to be on those stages at that scale.

[25:55] And, and you realize not everybody has that opportunity, whether they're young dancers or like patrons going to feel it at that level, I think is wonderful. And then that's why I love cinema. Because if you can share that with people, then you can get them into the theater and they might not know that exists. But I mean, talk about, I mean, one in the world talent and to see him at that level. And, you know, to see the the swagger, I would say, he's so fun and delightful.

[26:20] Bruce Gotlieb: And then it's also interesting, right? Because it's the post ballet career stories also that we're following with the two lead women, Shirley MacLaine and Anne Bancroft.

[26:28] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Yeah, who are incredible actresses as well, too. So I think that's always a sweet spot. Like, can you can you merge the high level of dancing and acting? And if you do, it's unstoppable, because it takes a lifetime, I think, to build craft in both those arenas and

[26:42] Breton Tyner-Bryan: And I think that's really important for people to understand too that it is a lifelong journey, and it's also something that people have to commit. I mean, like we're talking about like how Baryshnikov's talent, but like his journey, his work ethic to arrive at that level of excellence is supreme. Yeah, how many ballet dancers make it into the mainstream like that? Him, Nureyev, maybe? Is there anyone else recently? I don't think so. Just like who can? Misty Copeland, maybe? Yeah, right? Who can fly like Nureyev and Baryshnikov? And I think if the world has access to seeing that, there's a greater appreciation for it because it's really, what is it similar to? Michael Phelps? Is it similar to pole vaulting?

Is it similar to race car driving? You're literally looking at like a human fly through time and space, which to me is like the coolest thing, right? Um, but yeah, but and I think, you know, he's a great example. He's completely an actor as well, and so that's on display as well. And what it's like to that those two don't need to be divorced. Those two can be very much in the same, you know, sort of zeitgeist for a performer. And just to note, any dance movie worth its salt has a shot of like gnarly dance feet, all taped up.

[27:54] Eila Mell: Yeah, 'cause I don't know if I mean, I don't know if anyone understands, I mean, we all understand that day-to-day reality, but I don't know if the rest of the world does except through cinema. So I think it's this is sort of the reveal of the hard work, the blood, sweat, and tears. Yeah, I appreciate because I've lived it, and that's, you cannot get there without it. It's not gonna arrive there with polished toes.

[28:22] Breton Tyner-Bryan: You're on point. I mean, that's a whole nother. Yeah, I mean, I was at the doctor's a few days ago, and they were like, "Oh, you have those feet."

[28:34] Eila Mell: I do! Speaking of ballet and also something that's crossed over to Broadway, which is, you know, obviously in a space that we love, Billy Elliot, you know, the film, you know, of this, again, little boy living his dream to be a dancer, which he didn't realize he even had. It translates so well as this, like, I know it's not a little film, but almost in that little film energy. And then, you know, seeing it come to life on stage, you know, the way that it did, I just think it really takes you into the heart of what it is to discover, you know, discover the passion of dance or whatever that passion might be, but discover it and kind of against all odds go to try to achieve your dream and live it out.

[29:20] Breton Tyner-Bryan: And I think you make such a good point. It's like just sort of discovering yourself, which is such a great sort of anthem for anybody who's watching that film, whether they're young or old, or watching that show, young or old. I think that's so inspiring, and that in my experience, that is the beauty of the ballet world. I know many friends that it sort of took them out of poverty or out of homelessness or out of families that weren't going to support them in it. It introduced them to a completely different life, people that have worked all over the world in different cultures, learned different languages, and it's a really magical world. But it is, you know, there's hard work that requires you to be in there.

But again, I think we're talking about two is like seeing sort of a young person with the hard space and the passion, and that's what carries you through to the Baryshnikov level, right? It's not, it's the soul regardless of like your technical capability that can be polished. But that little seed that can then fly.

[30:10] Eila Mell: And I love what you're talking about too. There's some other projects of mine we're sort of in conversation about this IP journey of what it's like to have a film and then launch into the musical space. And I love that because it just gives a greater longevity for people to appreciate that story and experience it because maybe you don't want to sit and watch a film, or maybe you don't want to sit in a theater. But either way, you can still be in conversation with that story in the cultural zeitgeist, and I think that's the gift of it. Also, I mean, when you add music and song to dance, like I like the best drugs. How are you gonna turn that down and say no? As a person who doesn't do drugs, I think that's the magic to a feeling that vibration in a theater of like so long, literally that vibration with dance and those beautiful designers, like, you know, contributions to it is such a, I would say holy place to be.

[30:58] Breton Tyner-Bryan: And maybe you got there by watching the film, by watching Billy Elliot. But I also love too because there's so many young people that I actually saw one of them yesterday who is in that show and also in Kinky Boots. Like, I don't, you're not gonna replace, like you're not gonna be 10 again or 12, and it's such a cool experience for those young artists to get to do that at a young age and to open their eyes to that and then where they want to go in their career next. But, and but yeah, I think those, it's a really magical show. And selfishly, you know, for us, for people that love this medium and love, you know, live theater, love, you know, cinema of this type, it keeps it going because you're opening the eyes of a ten-year-old who maybe knows that they like it, but now all of a sudden you've created a new theater goer. You've created somebody who will continue the torch.

[31:49] Eila Mell: 100%. I think building that ecosystem is everything, that there's a place for everybody to participate and contribute. And you don't have to be talent, like talent is a whole nother set of obligations in some ways in this life. But you want people that are in love with that experience, and storytelling is like the oldest, look at us talking about stories, it's the oldest form of communing and sharing. So I totally agree with you. And so this, the transformative quality of being in a theater and taking a break from the rest of your daily life, that was always imprinted on me with many of my teachers. I was like, they were like, you're performing for people that need to transcend what they just did for the past five hours, and you know, you should honor that you're capable of doing that, but that you are giving to others in that process of entertainment.

[32:35] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Yeah, all right, I'm gonna take us back about 80 years or so, but it's stormy weather. The Nicholas brothers, I think two of the best dancers of all time. What they did back then without CGI, without any kind of special effects is insane. Today, dancers probably wouldn't even attempt what they do because they don't have to, right? This play down the stairs, oh my gosh, and they're jumping from like drum to drum or whatever. They're on these platforms. It's crazy.

[33:06] Eila Mell: Yeah, I didn't, what I mean, the large, and what's cool about that too is it's sort of coming from like vaudeville in a stage scale. So those sets that they're working on are large, and to talk about energy and sort of like that magnetic switch, it's gonna captivate. What's so cool to me is also not only their technical capability, their bravado, their heart on display, but the understanding like you're gonna do this in one take. It's a very an approach of like, and I'm sure they did many takes, but like that is this, it is a much longer dance sequence and how things are approached just early today. So like the stamina, the joy to do that, I mean, and they danced like they're my friends' uncles, but they danced like, you know, for a very long time.

So they're not necessarily, you know, 15 or 20 doing like 25 splits down those beautiful staircases. But I also wanted to shout out to like the volume of energy required for them to stand out at that scale with those bands and with, I mean, there's two people that are promenading those scenes with their physicality and their joy. And I think that's, that only comes from live.

[34:06] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I think understanding the scale of projection to do that and then to put that on camera. So, I don't, I don't know how you could divorce there. I know Matt, but they're the best. But also what's so unique about them is how they dance two people as one.

[34:21] Eila Mell: Yes, and there's like subtle distinctions in personality that I think are such a great blend. And to have two men that's sort of having that, there's such a love there that you can see there's sort of that unites them that it isn't really competition. Like you said, it's sort of this one unit, but yeah, just phenomenally gifted. But I would say willing to, there's a throwaway actually at the end of their movement that's so amazing. They're not, you can feel they're not holding anything back.

[34:49] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Yeah, but the volume of that, that level of giving is huge. They're like dance stuntmen almost.

[34:55] Eila Mell: Yeah, I think that's a really great way. They still think they'd outdo all the dancers today and all the stunt people. They're incredible. I don't know what their hamstrings felt, but that's part of it too is like you turn the switch and you're giving for that moment in that scene. And how cool that we have them on, you know, on camera for a moment years ago because people, because we could talk about it today and then we can share that with young people and go, this is the level that existed. Yeah, this, this is, this is possible. So get to work.

[35:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Because it's not AI. Work, yeah. No. All right, Bruce, you're up.

[35:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay, one of my favorites, Dirty Dancing. I mean, you take a story that is, you know, not really about dance, but then it's so much about dance. Like it kind of hybrids this, you know, rom-com vibe with, you know, people who probably wouldn't necessarily sit down to watch a dance movie. And then Patrick Swayze is just really, I mean, perfect in the part with, you know, Jennifer Grey, and it's just, it just keeps layering on top of itself to like just kind of keep one upping itself all the way. I mean, you said it. I think that's sort of our template and our goal for the more smooth as well. It's about dance, it's not about dance at all, and it's meant to be accessible to everybody. But then you're seeing some of the best dancers in the world in it as well, so you're exposed to that.

But at the core of it, it's about ego and appetite and camaraderie. I mean, Dirty Dancing, I mean, Patrick's one of the greatest dancers in the world too, but and we're also in the greatest actor. So again, you're getting that like unique hybrid of those two levels of excellence coming together. Jennifer's incredible, but I think you said it too, it's you, there'd be no film without dance, but at the end of the day, that's not, you know, the narrative that's just driving it, whereas like Center Stage, like it is very much about, right, about the dance.

[36:45] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I probably, I don't know, I love that film so much. I don't know, it's um, how I'd even speak on it more articulately because it's such a feeling for me that, I mean, I've seen it thousands of times, and whatever it's on, it's, I think it pulls you in with like the authenticity too of the two leads. So their chemistry, their connection. It's also cool that, you know, her father's Joel Grey, a great dancer, so, you know, so she knows dance even if she's not a dancer herself.

[37:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Well then like who's a dancer, right? It's like dance is for, and I think that's sort of what I love about that and the message for them are smooth is that dance is for everybody, however you want to experience it, whether you're at the club in the Poconos with your husband or your wife dancing, or you're with your friends at the club, or you're doing it for a living. Like I think that's what creates patronage is that people feel they can participate in the ecosystem at any level, but that should be what dance is. Dance is for everybody because it's such a spiritual, lovely thing to do.

[37:41] Breton Tyner-Bryan: And then also I feel like I have to throw in because, you know, people who are seeing it for the first time now or, you know, in the past 20 years don't realize that people didn't know that Patrick Swayze was a dancer up to that point. It's really, yeah.

[37:56] Bruce Gotlieb: That's a really, I mean, I've had that experience too. There's a lot of people asking me another like, "Oh, you're a dancer?" And it's wild to sort of have that conversation because I've done it since I was like five years old. And I think that that's the, you know, that's the sweet spot of like media and cinema is that you're bringing high-level dance to an audience that might never have experienced. I mean, Patrick is a ballet dancer. He was with Joffrey Ballet. I mean, just one of the most incredible artists. But I think also too, just like you said with Joel Grey or with Jennifer, like there's so many people that have dance training that are actors that are musicians, like that it's part of the linear experience of being an artist that's not, if you're, you know, it's so valuable regardless whether or not you're a Nichols brother and you're doing, you're only doing that piece of it.

[38:37] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I think the more you dig into it, I mean our whole cast are all dancers, whether they did it, whether they dance in the film or not. We have Lily on a page plays Francesca, and everybody has dance background. So I think that created like the physical understanding of the ecosystem for Rhythm or Smooth. So I love that you pointed out Joel too because it's sort of in the water, if that makes sense, in the entertainment.

[38:59] Bruce Gotlieb: It's right needs, and it's also I remember watching, you know, whether it be a film or a TV show that had somebody that you knew, like Gregory Hines for instance, was a great actor, and any time I saw him at anything, I was just like, I think, and have him dance, is he gonna dance? So I was the whole film almost on the edge of my seat wondering, are they just gonna give us a taste? And it didn't take anything away from whether he did or didn't, but it added a level of excitement because you know the capabilities are there, and you just want to know, like it might not serve this piece, but you just, even for a five-second quick little tap, oh, you'd be, you'd get enough.

[39:38] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Yeah, I know. I love that you pointed that out too, that like you're just, you're just one upping it to share like another level of expertise and that it can live cohesively in those spaces. It doesn't have to be divorced in its own arena.

[39:51] Bruce Gotlieb: All right. So this one's a fun one for me. It's Fame, the movie. But especially now, don't laugh. It's the scene when Leroy auditions with Shirley to get into the school.

[40:34] Breton Tyner-Bryan: The actress is Carol Massenburg. She's so good as Shirley. It's a really great scene. I can't believe I was literally watching it. I mean, I love that film. I grew up on that film as well. And I sort of caught, you know, because of when that came out. That was just that was really my introduction to like, oh, there's schools like this in New York City. This is what this is like. This is what these people behind the table are like, because I've auditioned for those people behind the table. It's like, and they're not they're not coming down for anybody. They're, they're, they're sort of like, we've been here for this amount of time, but I think you bring a really good point to, I don't know, I feel like that film is so universal and timeless. That's kind of what it is.

[41:13] Breton Tyner-Bryan: It's like, that's what's so successful about it is that they really capture the tension, I would say, of, are you going to be allowed to train? Are we even going to be, you know, open the store to you? And do you have what you need? And, but also, like, come back? Like, yeah, it's not, you know, it's not like push a button. It's like, maybe you're going to audition three times, five times, like, if you want it, go get it, because it's not being handed to you. And I think that's, I don't know, that develops like an unmistakable work ethic that, you know, is, I think, we'll see you through any industry. But yeah, I just I love that scene, because I know all those characters. I've met them all in many, many areas of life.

I've been in those, I've been behind the table. Now I've been the auditionee. And it's kind of like, you got to just be who you are, you got to be Shirley, you got to go, you got to be Leroy, and then you'll find your place, your path, I think.

[42:03] Breton Tyner-Bryan: There's nothing better to me than an audition scene. I love it.

[42:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[42:08] Breton Tyner-Bryan: But Shirley was not getting in, just based on her outfit alone, that Superman t-shirt, I think she was wearing, and the high heel sandals, it was not going to work for Shirley. I mean, I've taught for a very long time. And I know those kids that come in, and they don't have a clue how to be dressed. And but what you're still watching for is like the talent and the heart.

[42:28] Bruce Gotlieb: Like Leroy.

[42:29] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Exactly. And it's like, how fast can you take off the sandals, pull your hair back and focus? I mean, that's really what we're talking about is how, you know, do you want it?

[42:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[42:39] Breton Tyner-Bryan: And you see kids that I don't think you like train that or create that they have it or they don't. And it's, it's a beautiful thing, too, because I work with kids all over the world. There's kids who come to New York City, like, from all different countries don't I mean, so many times my students speak English, we work with students who don't, but they're going I want that they're reaching past those sort of like cultural communicative barriers. And that's what's so cool about dance is, like, once you're in that space, you don't need to speak the language, you can take class, you can understand it anywhere in the world. And that was my experience from a very young age as I was working with people that were not American. So the way we communicated was through dance. And I think, yeah, there's so many times I've seen kids come in, but they're hungry. And so they sort of it's sort of how fast can you get it together?

[43:23] Breton Tyner-Bryan: But the thing is, also, you know, in Jean Anthony Ray was just a brilliant dancer. But in that movie, his character Leroy didn't even know that he wanted to be a dancer, he was just helping her with her audition, and it completely changed his life. And that that's a real thing.

[43:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Which is so beautiful, because I mean, there's so many times I've watched young men walk into studios go what, what is this? And it's sort of like the universe is guiding them to a supreme talent that they discovered, just like Billy Elliot, too. It's like, how would you, how would you know about this unless you're exposed to it through cinema or live or you get to walk into a studio? I mean, I've spent my whole life in a studio. But I know that like, it's a privilege to sort of be in that space and to discover that world. So I love movies, because then we get to share that space with people.

[44:07] Breton Tyner-Bryan: And say, hey, come on in, like, maybe it is for you.

[44:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[44:10] Bruce Gotlieb: All right, Bruce, you have one last one?

[44:12] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I do. I do. It's not as well, I guess, respected as much as the Broadway show is, but A Chorus Line in that audition in that space. Because what I think is important, although it does take out some of the elements that the purists of A Chorus Line love, to me, anything that gets people from not in the New York tri-state area, the ability to be opened up to theatre and to what that is, and to stretch.

[44:41] Bruce Gotlieb: I think is worthwhile, even if there are cuts that we don't appreciate that we don't like.

[44:47] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I mean, talk about an audition. The whole film is an audition.

[44:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[44:52] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I mean, I grew up watching that film till four in the morning alone. I know the entire thing by heart. I knew the film before I got to see the show.

[45:01] Bruce Gotlieb: So talk about the reach and the breadth of understanding that. I hadn't seen gold top hats and coats. I was watching Busby Berkeley in black and white. I didn't know. I wasn't seeing that world in the ballet ecosystem I was in.

[45:15] Breton Tyner-Bryan: That film is like a huge introduction for me. To even know, like, okay, where does this exist? Oh, I have to go to Broadway to find it? Okay, how do you, what is this, like, there's going to be 500 people auditioning? Oh, that's sort of the scale of what we're dealing with at a five, six, seven. It's like, there's not a lot of, you know, it's like, do you want it or not? It's just very New York. And I love it because I feel like when you're ready for that, people will feel it. They feel the appetite. And because that's, I mean, those auditions are crazy. I've been to them too. But what you're looking for is stamina and longevity.

[45:48] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Because you're going to do eight shows a week. And it's, I've just, I've seen that so many times. That sort of older style of auditioning where it's like, let's go again.

[45:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[45:58] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Let's go again. And I mean, I love that film. So I have nothing negative to say. But I also love it because it was it was like the introduction for me. It was the introduction for sure.

[46:12] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, I am a chorus line snob. So I'm not a big fan of the movie. But there are two things about this movie that I love one that Terrence Mann is in it at all. Because growing up seeing him just in the two minutes in the commercial for cats was everything for me. It was like, who is this just the energy that he brought was amazing. So okay, that but I mean, the talent of Greg Burge as Richie in a chorus line is just off the charts.

[46:41] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Just off the chart. I loved him in that so much.

[46:44] Bruce Gotlieb: I mean, they're like, the best dancers of that. It's like, who can do what those guys can do? Right. And which is really interesting to me, too, because you're watching them all as leads, and then they arrive into ensemble, which I think is such an interesting expose of like, both ends of that world of like, who's the lead versus like, how you're, how you're expected to be in ensemble. But I mean, each of those dancers is fun. I mean, they're just like, I don't know if there's anybody else like them. I don't think.

[47:09] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Which is so interesting, because people have played those roles in the show for years, but they kind of they set the bar for sure.

[47:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. And also just the way of telling a story. It changed theater. It was also you know, one of the first times that you could just have a show that's based in the current present day. That looks exactly in the theater the same way it does on the street right outside the theater.

[47:31] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Right, like leotards and dirty jazz shoes and like hard work and like.

[47:35] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, very simple set.

[47:36] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Can the adults please smoke? I mean, yeah, Sheila's got silver on and she's like, guys, I have things to do. I have to get to my day job. It's so New York. I also love a show within a show. That's like one of my favorite sort of theatrical mechanisms, whether it's, you know, it's TV, film or, or live.

[47:54] Bruce Gotlieb: I love those that layers of like walking back into arrive at what it's like to be an artist. And for people to actually see that, but which is cool to talk about that show versus like center stage, because I think I don't have the word like, did I know Terrence Mann was at the time? Yes. Did I have an understanding to dissect, you know, what it should have been like? No, I think that's a really cool space, because it's sort of like a Billy Elliot for me, at that moment in my development that I just pulled me into the world. I'm like, whatever this is, I want in. I want to hang out this all day long. Whereas like center stage, I'm aware that, you know, it's highlighting people that were people that I knew that were high in those, you know, in the ballet world or in the Broadway world that time.

[48:35] Breton Tyner-Bryan: So I think whatever like age you experience it is pretty exciting, because then it pulls you in or you know, it's, you get to sort of be the expert that saying we should have done it this way. And also, it's important to point out that a chorus line wasn't written by writers who didn't know anything about dance. It was taken from, you know, so many of us know this, but it was taken from sessions of dancers, many of who went on to be in the original cast, telling their own stories. So all the stories you're hearing in the movie and in the play are people's real stories.

[49:08] Bruce Gotlieb: Which I think is what makes it so strong and so unique. And I think you bring up great piece two is like, that's why that experience of dance, understanding dance, having dance training, wherever it lands you in your life is so invaluable, because then you can speak that language and understand what it's like. And I'm very aware that when I'm like the only person on set with dance training, it's a disservice to the project we're on. And when I have everybody else, whether they've worked at the level I have or not, as a physical performer, there's an understanding of how the story needs to be told and what actually is authentic to dance, I think. And I carry, you know, that responsibility for this project.

But also, I think my whole life because I want dance to be seen at the highest level, whether it's cinema or stage. And you realize that, you know, sometimes you're the person that's going to make that call and go, no, that's not how we're doing this. That's not, does not represent dance its best.

[49:55] Breton Tyner-Bryan: So yeah, I'm like, well aware of that, that responsibility. And I, but I, you know, it's like, how lovely, how beautiful to like, have that, that sort of end to end option, you know, of living to go, go, no, we need to do it this way to honor that world and that community.

[50:08] Bruce Gotlieb: When you were talking about the cast of Rhythm or Smooth, how they all are leads, I was thinking, oh, it's a movie full of Cassies.

[50:17] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I mean, that's, that's an interesting way to put it. Yes. Yeah. First, I mean, we have multiple ballroom couples that have danced together before that are in the film. Everybody that's was cast has a dance background. Catherine Curtin also dance. She dances in the film. Amazing. So sort of had that like contagious quality. Yeah. But I think what the core of it too, is like, they're all movers. So they want to move when they're in their scenes. And I think that I allowed for that because you can see that their best performance is coming forward. You know, it's not a medical procedural. It's not a victim cop show. It's, it's a bunch of movers. And everybody has theater backgrounds, too. They're all theater performers. I mean, it's so New York. It's like how you're not really divorcing those pieces. So I think it's fun to realize I wasn't planning on doing a dance movie. And then it's fun to realize we completely did a dance.

[51:10] Bruce Gotlieb: What's the next steps for Rhythm or Smooth?

[51:41] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Okay, well, I hope that you're going to let us know when we can see it when it's going to be streaming somewhere or in a theater that we can go to and see it. Absolutely. And this was so much fun. I know we left off so many and we didn't even.

[51:54] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Kelly and Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers and but you know, another time I polished up I was like, Are we going to go red shoes? Are we going black? I know, I know. Are we going to be Berkeley where but I love what you guys brought up there. I mean, they're really all my favorites and they completely influenced me. Even like being here to have this conversation with.

[52:13] Breton Tyner-Bryan: Oh, when I didn't bring up but I need to just at least throw out their West Side Story the original movie. Just maybe the best.

[52:21] Bruce Gotlieb: There are elements of that film that we discussed as a part of Rhythm or Smooth as well. I mean, just but again, like that, whether it's like dance or like a snap or a strut or a walk, like, to me, the whole thing is movement in that way. And that's got the tension, the beat of New York City, whether it's, again, very universal that time or today like that, that I got to go out and make something of myself, I got to go out and grab that thing.

[52:46] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I've got it's very time sensitive to it's like, Okay, I'm here in New York. Let's go. That's yeah, there's an urgency. Yes. And I think, again, like, that's what's so timeless about it. But I mean, there's a gazillion masters that worked on that. I know.

[52:58] Bruce Gotlieb: All right. Well, thank you so much. This is great. There's so many more that we can talk about.

[53:06] Breton Tyner-Bryan: I feel like I get to talk with you guys. And you'll you'll go No, no, we don't like that part about this. It's really fun. Yeah. All right. Well, we will keep you posted on Rhythm or Smooth. And we will see everyone next time on Behind the Awards.

[53:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Bye bye.