This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Kevin David Thomas: Well, hello, everybody. Hello, everybody. It's been a while. It has been a while. We were on summer vacation, just like the kids do. Nice long extended COVID vacation, you might say. We've been on a break, but we had some downtime and we wanted to do a little summer catch-up with everybody and see how everyone is doing. But first, I have to start with you. Hey, Rob, how old is your child now? Crawford Dwight Thomas is... He was born...

[0:46] Robert W. Schneider: That's my dad's name. Crawford Dwight Shruti Thomas.

[0:48] Kevin David Thomas: That's right. He's two years and let's see, June, July, August, September, two years and two months old, two and a half months old. He's starting to talk. He loves music. He has opinions about things. He enjoys golf and he loves musical theater, especially the musical Six. He still enjoys the old Six cast recording. No, but I just... He's growing up, Rob. It's crazy.

[1:15] Robert W. Schneider: It's absolutely insane. He's absolutely adorable. So I know that you had your hands filled with that little beautiful man. It's been a busy time.

[1:24] Kevin David Thomas: It's been a busy time. It's been a busy time. But we decided that this summer has been quite an eventful summer, to say the least, not only just for you and I and all the stuff that we get to do, but also in the theater community. It has been a wild, rambunctious ride with so much good news, so many twists and turns, things I would never have seen on my Broadway bingo card in a million years. Twitter was aflame the last couple of weeks, Rob. I've never been a part of so many Twitter scandals that were just going on and on.

[1:53] Robert W. Schneider: You know, I will be honest with you. I never use Twitter.

[1:58] Kevin David Thomas: I know. It's just one of those things that I'm just not that familiar with. And I have seen so much negativity about our business over the past few weeks on Twitter that I went on yesterday and I wrote a simple little question.

[2:09] Robert W. Schneider: Viral. Viral. You went viral, Rob. I was literally laughing so hard. I said, this man never goes on Twitter. He never does it. And he says one simple little question to spark some positivity. And what happens? People lost their minds.

[2:34] Kevin David Thomas: It was amazing. All I wrote was, all I wrote was, all right, MT fans, name a song that the first time you heard it, you said, this is why I love musicals. And I was expecting you to respond. I was expecting Robbie Rizzo to respond and Kevin Daly to say something from 1600 Pennsylvania. And I went away from my phone. And the next thing I know, it's like blown up, which means, I think, that, you know, it is so hard, I think, in this particular time that we are living in, especially when we've all been like trapped lab animals for two years, not to go just a little bit off the deep end. And so I think when something occurs, there's just all this venom and negativity.

[3:23] Robert W. Schneider: And I totally understand, you know, you can never please everybody all of the time. I absolutely get that. And I'm also not saying that the negative, not the negativity, but the commentary and discussions are not.

[3:32] Kevin David Thomas: Snarkiness sometimes.

[3:34] Robert W. Schneider: Yes, yes. But it's like blood in the water. And there's this joy that comes along with, you know, tearing people down and tearing the industry down. And so my feeling was, can we put a little bit of positivity out there? So that was my, I was an innocuous question. And I think a lot of people responded to it, hopefully, to bring us all back to the joy of musical theater, which is something that we'll be talking about today as we do a little summer recap with everything that has been going on. This is not a place for negativity. This is a place for joy and joy. We've always said that, and I could not agree more with you. I was so overjoyed when you posted that.

[4:13] Kevin David Thomas: It's funny, because I wrote a tweet, I did a tweet, you know, I will write little quips and things, and I comment on people's things. But my mom, I was with my mom the other, you know, my mom was visiting this weekend, and, you know, for Thursday through today, and she told me offhandedly how she saw A Chorus Line. It was her first Broadway show, original cast, 1976. And I was so flabbergasted by that, because I thought, how? I'm 41, and my mom never told me that. So I just typed that into a little tweet, you know, like you did, you know, and I thought nothing of it. This is the only tweet in my life that's ever gotten, it's got like 220, not that it matters, but like 220 people were like loving it. And I thought, how? And I can't understand why, except I do think it has to do with celebrating the positivity of it. So I'm so happy and so with you on that, Rob. And I think, yeah, go for it.

[5:07] Robert W. Schneider: Now it has 568, like, 155 quote tweets and 19 retweets. But also, I mean, like I said, I had no, I was like, I don't even know who any of these people are, but it's been so wonderful. And just, it's so cool to see, you know, the wide, wide range of songs that tastes and loves, and like the people's, you know, the reasons why people love stuff. And I love that too, exactly. And it's also cool because people are also sharing their stories. Like this woman named Betsy King Hansen says, parents loved, grew up, my parents loved MT, so they, she grew up listening to classics, so they grew up listening to classics, which is, MT is part of my soul, thanks mom and dad. Isn't that sweet?

[6:00] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, yeah. So I mean, that's why we do it. So I had no, I just literally thought it was going to be you, Kevin, Robbie Rizal, and Jack Fertel, God bless him. Jack Fertel gave a shout out to A Family Affair.

[6:07] Robert W. Schneider: Listen, I do Twitter a lot. And let me tell you that he's constantly talking about A Family Affair. He loves it with Ben Dreyer. It's always, who knew that Family Affair was such a big favorite. And I love it. I just posted a new question because, you know, keep the momentum. Now you're in it. Now you're in it. Now you're a Twitter person. All right, MT fans, name an act one closer that made you think, don't stop now. I have to see how this turns out. And I've gotten one response from the wonderful John Moss. And his response was, his response was, back in showbiz again from Bring Back Birdie because no one could have possibly followed what had previously happened over all that laughter.

[6:50] Kevin David Thomas: So a little stark with the happiness. I like it. I like it. Of course. Anyway, so that's wonderful. But I think that's one of the things that we're looking to do is to bring more positivity. So today I'd love to share some positive things with you. If you're willing to share some positive things with me.

[7:03] Robert W. Schneider: I'm here for that. The first thing I'd love to talk about is, you know, we have been so starved from seeing theater for such a long time. Yeah. I got to see my first, like, show show, professional show show in New York a few days ago in Brooklyn at the Brooklyn Navy Yards from a group called the Bridge Production Group. Are you familiar with them?

[7:26] Kevin David Thomas: No, I mean, I am because I did research when I found this show out and I thought, how did I not know this show was going on? And who are these people doing this?

[7:34] Robert W. Schneider: Of course, I will say it was so nice for me to see the show. I mean, I'm a big fan of the show. It was so nice, first of all, to be reintroduced, to be reintroduced, to be introduced to a brand new theater company. And the theater company has such passion about what they are presenting. And it looks like versatility of what they're presenting, because based on the research that I did, and if I'm wrong, please correct me. This is the first musical that they are doing. So bless them for coming back with a musical. And they overtook this outdoor space at the Brooklyn Navy Yards, and it was literally a balcony. It was literally like when you walk upstairs outside to go into an office building. Yeah, that's where they decided to do title of show. You don't need much with title of show, really, you know, that's the beauty of it.

[8:26] Kevin David Thomas: And I want, you know, it was directed by their artistic director who also starred in the show, a gentleman by the name of Max Hunter. And one of the things I found so interesting that you and I, I think, might be on, oh God, don't kill me, opposite sides of the fence when it comes to title of show. I have long been a fan of title of show. I used to watch the title of show show, listeners, do you remember this, the web series that Hunter and Jeff did with, of course, with Heidi and Susan. And it was like the early days of the World Wide Web. I can't believe I just said that. But it was it was like an early YouTube series. I don't even know if it was probably on YouTube, but it was it was a it was a series in the arts that was about them talking about the show and all that.

[9:08] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah, Rob, I love title of show. It's I am a big fan. But tell me, were you a big fan of this before you saw the show for this production?

[9:18] Kevin David Thomas: I'm going to give you full disclosure. I have seen this show many, many times. I have never. I did not see it on Broadway. I did not see the original production. So I can't talk to that. I have found when I have seen previous productions of title of show, there seems to be a very large emphasis on the campiness and the comedy and the show geekery of it. And then by the time you get to the end of the show, when everyone's heart is breaking and we're now talking about artistic compromise, you kind of get confused because you go that you've shifted the tone on me so drastically. And I'm only talking about previous productions that I have seen that I have seen in the show. What I would love to applaud this this group on is it was the first time that I actually felt invested in these characters.

And I will say, because there's such an emphasis on this production in the heat and how the friendship dynamics and the creativity is challenged when artistic compromise is made, you lose some of the comedy early on. But I don't mind losing some of that comedy for the greater emotional payoff by the end. Overall, a really lovely way of going back into the theater outdoors. And it had like a ragtag quality to the show that normally is not seen because normally the show should feel ragtag. And usually when you see it, it comes off very polished. This was literally done outside on a platform. The show did start 20 minutes late. So it took us a while to get into the show because our butts were a little tired.

But once we got into it, it was a really lovely production. And I can't wait to see if the Bridge Production Group is going to tackle any other musicals in their in their in their gestation. So congrats to them. There was a woman who played Susan in title of show. Her name is Jennifer Apple. She was absolutely marvelous. She is one of the funniest comic actresses I have ever seen. And I think she has such a big career ahead of her.

[11:29] Robert W. Schneider: That's wonderful. Jennifer Apple is just brilliant and title of show. Sorry, I want to question. Not that we can edit this out. But it was it. Is it with the equity actors? Was it a professional?

[11:39] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, all equity production.

[11:44] Robert W. Schneider: Forgive me. Forgive me, members of the company, because I just honestly didn't know. But I all equity production. Yep. Good. Wonderful. God bless them. Let's talk about Cape Cod. I was going to ask you, but I can't get a word in.

[12:02] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. How was the show? Tell us about it.

[12:07] Robert W. Schneider: Oh, boy. So, folks, I think we've talked about this a few times before. If you live in the West Falmouth, Massachusetts area, please, over the summer, you need to check out the College Light Opera Company that has been around now for 50 plus years. They do nine shows in 10 weeks. The students are always I mean, the actors are always working. It's incredible. And I was very, very lucky to be the first show to rehearse in their new four million dollar rehearsal facility.

[12:28] Kevin David Thomas: How'd they get that? That's that's incredible.

[12:32] Robert W. Schneider: Once again, they live on Cape Cod.

[12:36] Kevin David Thomas: Ah, there it is.

[12:37] Robert W. Schneider: There you go, folks. What I really love about this particular theater company when it's not in non-COVID times because of COVID times, they have to adjust a little bit. These shows are always done with the original orchestrations. They're done with casts of 32 orchestras of 24 to 28. And there's no amplification whatsoever. So you feel like you're going back into an old school. Remind us the shows that you've done in the past, please, Rob, with the full orchestrations.

[12:52] Kevin David Thomas: How to Succeed in Business Without Crying, Wonderful Town, Bye Bye Birdie. And because of COVID, they can only have three band members this time around. And we did Jerome Kern's Very Good Eddie, which was such an absolute delight of a show, a show that I was a princess musical. I had no familiarity with it going into it. In fact, I said yes to direct it before I even read it. Like, let's have a challenge. We love a challenge. And it was a joyous experience. And these kids, God bless.

[13:28] Kevin David Thomas: They understood this style so... Specific kind of comedy, isn't it? Boy, that's like so period. So of that era, I mean, the 20s was like, you know, Vaudeville almost. Vaudeville. It really was. I mean, that was it was shtick. You know, I will say this. I'm always so nervous about going in, working with young people on a period piece because I always go in and think they're never going to understand this. Like how do I explain to them who the Marx Brothers were? How do I explain to them, you know, what a screwball comedy was like? And I don't know who's teaching these kids, but you're doing a great job because all of my kids understood style brilliantly. So mazel tov to them. But if you ever get a chance, they're talking about their next season and there's a rumor they might do No No Nanette.

And if they do and I don't direct it, I'll need you to come up and help me burn the theater. How could they not? You basically pay to do it. You told me on this broadcast, you told us listeners that you would do it for nothing, that it's one of those shows that you would drop everything to do. So how could they not use you? I would hand them my checkbook. There's three little items I would love to share with you of previous guests were involved with that I think are probably on your list, Rob. Well, first of all, where we were supposed to be tonight was at Leroy Reams concert. Happy birthday, Leroy, because it is his birthday, I believe. And that is Mr. Old Showbiz himself. Unfortunately, we were not able to be there.

But the other celebration, yet a little sadness is Mickey Grant, because we had tried so hard to get her. I was actually going to make her my favorite thing. And then I realized she already was a year ago. And if you have, if you want to listen to a great album, go on YouTube and listen to Don't Bother Me, I Can't Cope. It is so wonderful. It is so good. Listen to Working. But Mickey Grant, man, we almost got her. We tried so hard. There was conversations back and forth. I will cherish my meeting her at the end of Working last year or two years last year. Kevin, my God, two years ago. But I was really saddened to see that she had left us because that is a real legacy. There is, like you said, I'm so happy you said that.

Yes, there is a legacy there. And I think unfortunately, because she was overshadowed by so many other composers of that era that we don't celebrate her for all the great stuff that she was able to create and all the great stuff she was able to contribute. We don't really talk about her when you're learning about the history of musical theater in college. And I feel like that is such a huge deficiency. Garbage, garbage. It's absolute garbage. Rob, it makes me actually angry. I think that if there was a white male composer who wrote the stuff that she did, there would have been cast recordings of every single show. This is the first female who wrote the book music lyrics to all these shows. They are good.

They are solid. And the fact that you don't have a mainstream cast recording from the 60s and 70s is disgusting. And I think it makes it is just it is sad to me that we don't. And so and I'm glad that what we little we have exists. But oh, man, she was she went out with. Yeah. Yeah. And a brilliant performer in her own right because oh my God, saying from the cradle will rock. That's right. I love that recording. So and there's some YouTube clips of that as well. Like Kevin was saying, we made phone contact with her. And unfortunately, she just was not up to doing an interview with us. But thank God we got to meet her. We got to get a compliment from her when we did Working at 15 Below. So, yes, I'm happy that you mentioned her.

And I think we should all listen to some Mickey Grant music this week. What about speaking of other legends that we've I mean, I feel like when I watched the PBS documentary Beyond the Golden Age, Rob, even though all the interviews are about 15 years old, it felt like every single person on there was someone who we had talked to, including the great late Rick McKay, who was the producer and the interviewer. And if you listeners, if you would like a little insight on what he went through in order to create this documentary, we lost him a couple of years ago, you know, unexpectedly, I think in a way, unexpected. He had plans for a part two and three. Now, posthumously, you know, his friends and producers and folks like Jane Klein got together and put this together.

And very much the same style, maybe not exactly how he would have done it, but in the same sort of tone as the first Golden Age documentary that we loved so much that it was the reason why we interviewed him. But I thought that the minute it came out, Rob, that night I watched and I texted you and all that. But it's just beautiful, a great celebration of this theater going on, this riff of elevating the art form and loving the art form. It is just a pure celebration of that. And it was nice to see Michonne Peacock since we'll never hear her interview. Kevin, Kevin, Kevin's got some shade today to throw. Let me ask you a question, Kevin, because I have not seen this documentary yet. And I remember the first one had such an effect on me.

And meeting Rick was I think an honor of both of our lives. Yeah. And I think he was one of the first guests to equate what he was doing with what we were doing. And that, I think, was a very shared passion. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. For those of us who have not seen this documentary yet on PBS, can you tell me, is there something that really stood out to you, either an interview or one of the set pieces that made you go, oh, I didn't know that? That's it. And maybe not because I hear it's a very overwhelming experience. Well, it went a lot of directions like there was, you know, the chorus line stuff we knew, I mean, because we've talked to so many of those people. I was sort of tongue in cheek with I don't know if we can talk about Peacock, but like, you know, that information, you know, like that world, we heard about that.

But it was for me more, Rob, it was to see a lot of people that aren't with us anymore and to see them talk about things. And I'm always fascinated when I hear stories that you and I have heard from the people that we've interviewed. But then I hear the same story from another set of another point of view. So I guess that was more to me what was interesting was like the more you invest in learning the history of what we do and because you and I, I would I hope I can say that we're both kind of historians. And like when you hear those histories spoken again and another point of view, I'm I love that. And so I love getting more context and like sort of filling in the black and white picture a little bit more color.

So I couldn't tell you a specific incident in that. And I'll watch it again because I was just I was just overwhelmed by it, to be honest. I was just loving everything. I love that. I mean, it's like a Rashomon, you know, like it's we know there's one event here from nine. How do you see it? How do you see? Yes, exactly. Well, I will see what I want to say. I see what I want to see. Yeah. Rashomon of musicals. That was the original title of See What I Want to See. Actually, the Rashomon of musicals. No, what? No, no. Rashomon. That was the original title when I think I played Williamston. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was before it was See What I Want to See because it was all about that. They're parallel.

Right. Like you see what you want to see. That's what that movie was about. So that was in one of the segments is Rashomon. That's why it's that Japanese sort of flavored the Mark Kudisch, Idina Menzel storyline that does the beginning where you each see their point of view. If you guys if any, Michael John, the fans are out there, you are with me on this conversation. But 95 percent of you have no idea what I'm talking about. But Michael John, the five percent see what I want to see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was Rashomon out before it came. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of listening to things. What? What are you laughing at? That transition. Hey, speaking of breathing. Damn it. I was just. Speaking of theater, you know, we haven't done this in a while.

My segway. I know. I know. I love it. I love your segways. I love you're so good at segways. As they used to be. You had a favorite thing a while back, and I have fallen in love with this favorite thing over the past few months. And so now I'm just here to validate the brilliant thing that you said earlier, if that's OK. Please bring it. What was it? I know it wasn't a wild party. Well, uh-huh. We student at Penn State's doing that for their thesis. And I was like, oh, that's not fun. You know, when I talk about that show, the more I talk about it and I'm like, I can't find a way into it. The more I talk about it, I think I find ways into it. That makes sense. Yes, of course. That's my goal to use it for you.

What is that? Yes. I think like from six degrees of separation where he's talking about Sidney Poitier making cats and then all the he really saw the reasons why. And as he's listening, all the reasons why he can't make a movie of cats, he's realizing all the reasons why you can make a movie of cats. Of course, John Guare never saw the wonderful cats movie that got to be. That would have been a different conversation. Sounds of Broadway. I love you for that, Rob, because it's my daily listen, and I'm glad you're giving a shout out right now. I really, I really am. I for the past couple of months, one of the reasons why we haven't been around this summer is I've been working on a couple of projects out in Los Angeles, which means there's a lot of driving time in Los Angeles, which means I have to listen to something.

And I decided on one of the commutes, I'll listen to Sounds of Broadway, as per Mr. Thomas's suggestion. Kevin, do you want to tell them what Sounds of Broadway is before I start? As a thing, I love you as a reminder, you guys, Sounds of Broadway, it's very rare and kind of really special. Stu Brown, you know, in his basement in, I think, Connecticut is a passion project. Stu is just loves show tunes so much. And by day, he's, you know, he's has a good living. But by night and by late night, he does a radio station, an Internet radio station. And so at any time of the day, you can I can't say the word Alexa because then it'll go off. But you can tell your smart device or your anything. There's even an app.

There's literally an app called Sounds of Broadway. And what it is, is it's just a radio station that does shuffle of shows. But you guys, it's not just like the same carousel cast recording you've heard a thousand times. The other day, this song from Doonesbury, the musical, it was like, what? Long night. And I thought, oh my God, I cannot believe that you're doing Doonesbury. It's the most rare stuff. But then he'll do themes and you're going to talk about that in a minute, Rob. But it's an app and a radio station that you can just it's where if you don't know what to listen to, because I often feel this way because I think I get overwhelmed because there's so many cast recordings to listen to and you don't have that much time.

I just want someone to pick it for me. Well, Stu picks it for you. Twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. And it's like a radio show where after 10 songs, he'll be like, and that that was Kwamina, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he'll like he'll give you the little like just like a radio program. And it's just special. OK, thank you, Rob. Go. No, I'm going to tell you here, folks, like this is I recently the playlist for right now recently played being alive from company. Great. What a guy. The Goodbye Girl. Lovers on Christmas Eve from I Love My Wife. Over here from over here. The Nervous Set. Weekend shopping. I love Nervous Set. Greenwich Village, USA. Times are hard for dreamers from Amelie Rex.

Away from you. The Happy Time. Unprodigal Daughter from Jagged Little Pill. So he I mean, that is a hodgepodge. If I ever heard one, I'm Rob. That's incredible. I mean, we all have been flat, but you will not hear waving through a window every hour on the hour. I mean, this and there's so many songs where I'll be driving and going, what is this from? Me, too. I'm sorry, my son's crying, but me, too. I often listen in the morning because I went Crawford, speaking of the son, I want him to hear, you know, you know, fun stuff. So I'll put it on Alexa and like every other song. And I think I don't want to toot our own horns, but I think you and I know a lot of show tunes. I think I'm you know, I like I play a lot of them.

I would say one out of five songs that go on, I feel like open up the app and be like, what is this? Like, how have I never heard of this? Like Cindy, you know, I forgot that those songs were on there, you know, and what did he play? What's the one with the duck scrambled scrambled? Yes. He played something from that with Jim Walton. I mean, who knew? Yeah. So I mean, and he's also converted a lot of vinyl stuff. That's what I mean. Exactly. The stuff like Doonesbury is not on CD. You can only listen to that online. I'm like, that's there's a lot. And recently he's been in a cry for us all phase because that's been playing on there and you go, where else would you get this? Where else would you get this? Pretty Bell. He played some Pretty Bell the other day. I love that. Yeah. Pretty Bell. Maybe, maybe when they revive Pretty Bell, they can get Benny Beanie Feldstein to be in that. Let's talk about.

[27:56] Kevin David Thomas: She also knew she could sing, so she would use that and throw it out there.

[28:00] Robert W. Schneider: Then I listened to Funny Girl the other day. It's an insanely difficult part to sing, so I don't...

[28:09] Kevin David Thomas: Does Beanie sing? Does she sing like that? Do you know?

[28:12] Robert W. Schneider: It's obviously she must, because they...

[28:15] Kevin David Thomas: She must!

[28:16] Robert W. Schneider: I don't think they...

[28:17] Kevin David Thomas: I can't wait!

[28:19] Robert W. Schneider: I would assume so! I mean...

[28:22] Kevin David Thomas: I can't wait!

[28:23] Robert W. Schneider: Dolly, but I don't remember if she sang anything in Dolly.

[28:26] Kevin David Thomas: I know.

[28:28] Robert W. Schneider: But...

[28:29] Kevin David Thomas: This is a multi-million dollar production. I am sure that they said, hey, can you...

[28:32] Robert W. Schneider: Brilliant casting, brilliant idea. She's the it. She's so on it, and I'm so glad that in the midst of her career that she's decided to spend, you know, almost a year doing a Broadway show, you know?

[28:45] Kevin David Thomas: When you could be making...

[28:46] Robert W. Schneider: Because she just came out with another movie, and she's doing lots of stuff, and I just think...

[28:50] Kevin David Thomas: You're not Hugh Jackman, who's sort of getting over the hill a little bit when it comes to the action hero, so why not play Harold Hill? Like, Beanie, thank you. Thank you for gracing Broadway with your talent and with your gifts, because we need it, and we love it, and Funny Girl deserves you.

[29:03] Robert W. Schneider: No, I'm so excited to see her do it. It's not a choice that I would have thought about in a million years, and I'm so happy that that's the way they're going with it, so...

[29:12] Kevin David Thomas: And no matter what, I'm just excited to see Funny Girl come back to Broadway.

[29:17] Robert W. Schneider: It's... Listening to it again, with a new set of ears, it was... Like, just really listening to it, it's brilliant. And Bob Merrill, man, some of those lyrics are really incredible.

[29:29] Kevin David Thomas: I still stand by my statement I've been saying since the beginning, that Julie Stein was really as good as the collaborators that he had with him, that they forced him to be better. Like, you know, I really believe that. Julie Stein was kind of little from the late 50s to, like, the 70s, even the 90s. Like, he was kind of all over the place a little bit, but when he had the right collaborator, it was just solid, incredible, beautiful, specific work.

[29:56] Robert W. Schneider: People. The music that makes me dance. I mean...

[30:01] Kevin David Thomas: And the pastiche songs, you know, like Cornet Man, Rat-a-tat, like all these that are... And, you know me, I'm, like, so obsessed with the vaudeville era. You know, he had to kind of, like, emulate that, but also make it popular sounding for the 60s, which is, like, no small feat, because you have to kind of, like, juggle both. You have to make it a Ziegfeld song, and also, you know, make it a 1960s musical. And I thought it was very effective. I hope the orchestrations are redone and hold up to that style, that sound, because, you know, you are... It's not a Barbra Streisand musical. It's a Fanny Bryce musical, so it has the sound still, I think, has to be of that era, you know? And I'm excited to hear that era again on Broadway today. I miss that, and I think that'll be really fun to see what audiences think of it as well.

[30:52] Robert W. Schneider: Me too. I'm very excited to see. Either way, I'm just excited to be introduced to it. And I will, I'll be honest with you, when they announced first it was going to be Lauren Ambrose, and then Lea Michele, both times I was, like, oh, interesting. And this is one where I was, I'm very excited to see where this one goes, so I'm looking forward to it.

[31:11] Kevin David Thomas: Definitely.

[31:12] Robert W. Schneider: Also, I think, besides Funny Girl coming out this way, we also, I think, have, I don't know if you've... Oh, in London, over in London, Cinderella opened.

[31:24] Kevin David Thomas: I know, with David Zippel and Angela Webber.

[31:26] Robert W. Schneider: And it's getting great reviews.

[31:28] Kevin David Thomas: Angela Webber finally has a really, really, really solid lyricist. It's exciting. It's really, you know...

[31:33] Robert W. Schneider: You didn't think Tim Rice was solid? You didn't think T.S. Eliot?

[31:36] Kevin David Thomas: He's solid in the bank, and he's all that. But as far as, like, you know, really smart, inventive lyrics, I think David Zippel is really special.

[31:46] Robert W. Schneider: Old Possum's Book of Poems?

[31:50] Kevin David Thomas: Not what you want?

[31:50] Robert W. Schneider: Man, he's laughing all the way to the bank, Mr. Webber. But no, they postponed it, but now it's... And I hear, I mean, amazing things about David Zippel. I hear it's great. And I hear there's, like, what was it called? Like, a coup de theater?

[32:02] Kevin David Thomas: I don't know. There's something magical that happens.

[32:04] Robert W. Schneider: Who knew you could... I mean, but of course, the only person who could do that is the same person who did Old Possum, you know, the Cats musical. Like, who could do... Do we need another Cinderella? Probably not. There's been a thousand different Cinderellas in the world. Not to forget Cisterella, the Michael Jackson-produced musical that was a favorite thing a couple years ago that I still love to listen to. But no, who knew that we would need another Cinderella? And yet, it's... If it's good writing, it's good writing.

[32:30] Kevin David Thomas: And maybe Laura Osnes can be in that one.

[32:33] Robert W. Schneider: Stop it. Right. You're mad at me for my peacock... Okay.

[32:38] Kevin David Thomas: I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. I'm just talking about people working. Hey, and if you can't get to New York or to London to see a show, don't worry. There's a musical on your television screens called Schmigadoon.

[32:50] Robert W. Schneider: I have watched the first episode. I laughed all the way through it. The Easter eggs in it are so beautiful. I can't wait to watch more.

[33:01] Kevin David Thomas: I only...

[33:01] Robert W. Schneider: Did you watch all of it?

[33:02] Kevin David Thomas: Nope. I've only watched the first episode as well. I have found it to be an absolute delight.

[33:07] Robert W. Schneider: It is a hoot and a half. I'm obsessed with Cecily Strong.

[33:12] Kevin David Thomas: A half-hour episodic musical. Who knew we would be in 2021? When I was in high school, where there was, like, the only thing we had was Brandy and Cinderella, which was amazing, thank you very much, and Whitney Houston. But, like, you had to have those kinds of stars in order to make a musical. Now, it's everywhere, and I'm so pleased that we have an episodic TV show on Apple TV that's a musical.

[33:35] Robert W. Schneider: Not since Cop Rock, folks. Not since Cop Rock.

[33:38] Kevin David Thomas: They're going to talk about the PBS show. What's that PBS show with Patti LuPone?

[33:43] Robert W. Schneider: What's his name?

[33:44] Kevin David Thomas: It's Lonnie Price and Walter Bobby and Patti LuPone. It's like a Suds opera, something. People are yelling at me right now.

[33:50] Robert W. Schneider: I know, I know, I know. Folks, if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's the Patti LuPone 30-minute musical that's on PBS from the 80s, where she's the ghost of a washing machine.

[33:59] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah!

[34:00] Robert W. Schneider: If you don't know what I'm talking about, look it up, because it's incredible.

[34:04] Kevin David Thomas: Okay, so you've seen Schmigadoon.

[34:06] Robert W. Schneider: I've loved Schmigadoon.

[34:07] Kevin David Thomas: As well. And it's also so nice to see so many Broadway actors getting exposure.

[34:12] Robert W. Schneider: Good on them. Good on them for bringing, you know, that's a testament to those producers that they said, you know what? Because what drives me crazy sometimes, Rob, is when you see a musical and they're like, well, let's only use the Hollywood people, you know? Even though I feel like a quarter to half of the Hollywood people are all people who started on Broadway. But when you really bring in the people who do this for a living, it really shows, I think. And I think it's fun. I think I can't wait to watch the rest of it. And I'm glad to see that it being a mainstream, you know, form of entertainment that we can see.

[34:46] Kevin David Thomas: Exactly, folks. So let us know. Hey, and if you are in town this week, Thursday, are you doing something on Thursday?

[34:53] Robert W. Schneider: I can't, how do you know this, Rob? Yeah, our good friend Todd Bonaparte. I'm doing a cabaret.

[34:59] Kevin David Thomas: It's my first performance, a professional performance at 54, Feinstein's 54 Below.

[35:05] Robert W. Schneider: Todd Bonaparte is doing an amazing, hysterical cabaret, a celebration of the divas of Broadway and his relationship with them. And he's singing all songs that you know. I wrote a couple medleys, there's one mega diva medley that is really, really something. And he is just so funny. So if you're not doing anything, come up. It's the late show. So that's 9:45, folks, on Thursday, and you're gonna laugh your butt off. It's just, it's really fun. And he's a great performer. We all know.

[35:39] Kevin David Thomas: And I think this was a show from Provincetown, right?

[35:43] Robert W. Schneider: Yes, he was. Well, yes, he was there. That was the Provincetown, you know, pandemic. I mean, like, there was like, craziness that happened. But, but fortunately, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna get to see it here in New York City. And I just can't highly recommend it enough. It's really fun. I'm excited.

[36:04] Kevin David Thomas: Anne Miller, I'm so glad you're here, darling. I was just donating on Patreon to those boys at Behind the Curtain.

[36:09] Robert W. Schneider: Oh, Jenny, I love that show. Did you hear Mary Testa? Oh, she's so cute in Oklahoma, stirring up that cornbread. But I was in the back of the line and all I got was corn water.

[36:22] Kevin David Thomas: Dear, well, at Patreon, there's no mess. You just set a monthly donation and give all you can.

[36:29] Robert W. Schneider: Well, I hope somebody gives to me so that I can go back to Broadway and see a show for 500 bucks. I hope they're giving away green stamps.

[36:41] Kevin David Thomas: You fascinate me. Remember, Patreon.

[36:52] Robert W. Schneider: Actually, you know, let me ask you a question, Mr. Thomas, because there's a pretty big seismic shift in the profession since this summer has occurred. And that is that Actors Equity, an organization of which you are a member and of which I used to be a member, but I think maybe now I'll be a member again.

[37:05] Kevin David Thomas: You'll get a card. You'll get a card. You'll get a membership.

[37:13] Robert W. Schneider: Doors to anybody that can prove that they have been paid for performing.

[37:21] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Which is very different from how I think it was when you joined the union 20 or so years ago. Would that be correct?

[37:27] Robert W. Schneider: Oh, you are. Yes. It was actually the stress of every non-equity actor was how do I become an equity actor, even though I have understudied. I've been an intern at this Somerset theatre. I've done X, Y. You know, you had to collect numbers of, you know, listeners, you know, when you're non-equity, the only way to get an equity job is to go to an equity audition.

[37:51] Kevin David Thomas: But the only way to go to an equity audition is to be an equity member. So it's this weird catch 22, right?

[37:57] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah. And so, and so, and even my clients that I've coached over the years and stuff, it's always been like the biggest sort of like Mount Everest for them is like just being equity. And I remember in college that was, you know, there are some college programs. I think my alma mater is, is one of them, but they, they pride themselves as saying, you'll be equity by the time you graduate. I'm not saying my program says that, but there is a sort of like, you know, you want to be equity as soon as possible at first for some people, for some people, even though there's a lot of, there was a lot of non-equity work. But now it's, it's, it's completely different. And, and, and the circles and the hoops that you had to go through by, you know, you would have to work a certain number of weeks.

I think it was like 40 weeks at a professional theatre. So that means you had to literally work for X number of weeks in this world, and then you could pay all the money to become, Rob, what is it now?

[39:52] Kevin David Thomas: Well, it went from like 50 points. I thought it was 50 weeks. Like what was it? I think it was 50. I don't remember because it was so long ago, but they upped it.

[39:56] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah. And then they, they said, okay, you only need like 25 points, which was an influx of actors. This was right before COVID occurred.

[40:08] Kevin David Thomas: And now since COVID, they have said, as long as you can prove that you've been compensated in some way, shape or form for performing, you're more than welcome to pay the initiation fee, which is $1,700 and join the union. So this has been a very controversial, it was controversial. So, so let me ask you this because I'm so curious. People that are, first of all, are, are you for this or are you not for this as a member of Actors' Equity? You're not a, I'm not asking you as a representative of Actors' Equity. I'm saying as somebody who is a member, what are your thoughts on, on this?

[40:43] Kevin David Thomas: It's complicated. I think it's very complicated. I don't think you can have a black.

[40:48] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah. I don't think it's like a real black and white kind of thing because at the same time as I want my union to be strong, I want my union to be able to stand for us. You know, if you're an actor in Actors' Equity right now, you guys know this, but our union is not the strongest union of all the unions. Our union, we, we, we joke about our union all the time. And, and part of that problem is, is, is the financials. Part of it is just the fact that, you know, actors can be replaced and all of those kinds of things. So I want our union to, to stay afloat. And I think,

[40:53] Kevin David Thomas: I hate to say this. I shouldn't say this. I know a lot of talentless, no, not talentless. I know a lot of people who are perhaps learning the talents still of the business who are paying members of equity before all this happened. They just, they got lucky and something happened, you know, and that's just the way it is. So, yes, I think that I do believe that people that are working professionally, even if it was like two regional theater gigs where you were the understudy Louisa or the El Gallo, you should be able to pay and then go to those auditions because really all it is, is you're just getting the opportunity to go to open calls. That's, it's opportunity. It is merely opportunity for you to be able to go there.

So I'm kind of like, sure. Is it going to make it more crowded? Sure. It already was crowded when they lowered it to 25. Everyone was already talking about that. And there's an influx of people right now. And now with video submissions, you know, I can't tell you how many people that they're like, well, I put my video on YouTube and I can see the number of views and the casting director hasn't even looked at it yet. Well, that's showbiz. I'm sorry. Like that's just the part of it. But now you at least have a chance. And so I'm all about roll as many dice as you can and try to get the best odds as you can get. So I guess the long story is yes. What do you think, Rob, as a previously equity member and a director who will hire equity people, because you have your wonderful, wonderful theater company that we have yet to talk about, but that we need to.

But like, how do you feel about that? Do you feel like the, oh God, will the quality go down of auditions? No. I mean, I think that it will still be solid. You know, this is my feeling. And I really, I think that if you, if you believe in, if you really want to be part of a union and you can afford to pay your dues, I don't think there's any reason why you should not be a part of that union. I, yes. You know, the musicians union, you just got to go in and give them money. And then you're in the musicians union. Like that's, I genuinely believe, I genuinely believe that. And I, it drives me crazy that so many actors for so long had to figure out, like you were saying, how do I get this? How do I get that?

How do I get this? And also, I just want to say, going off of what you were saying, and this is not any shade towards actors equity, because I was a former member and I will be rejoining now that I can rejoin without a problem. I'll be rejoining because I believe in unions. But I think there's a certain arrogance of you're not talented until there's an asterisk next to your name. And I, you know, and I, and I think that, like you were saying, we know a lot of people who maybe are not the best storytellers that are in the union because they can juggle four balls and somebody was doing a production of Carnival and needed that. Do you know what I mean? And there's also lots of people who just can't get their foot in the door.

So I'm hoping, I'm hoping then by equity saying, no, listen, like, just like every other freaking union in the world, you want to be a part of us, you just pay your dues and you're more than welcomed. I mean, I think there's a lot of people who are complaining saying, oh, you know, it's a it's a money grab from equity, or that, you know, the reason that they're doing this is, you know, they were they were cloaking it under the idea of diversity and inclusion, but it's really not it's a money grab. I think at the end of the day, you have to say to yourself, is this getting, regardless of motivation, is it getting more people protected? And is it getting more people to be part of a union? So there's strength in numbers of storytelling.

And the answer on that is yes. It makes no difference if you're equity or non-equity, when you walk into the audition room, I've always, I've always tried to tell students and colleagues, you know, our colleagues, if you're right for the part, they're going to give you the equity contract if you're not equity. So so everyone's equity now. So so now our union is going to be stronger. And now we're going to fight even harder. And the people who aren't going to work are still not going to work. Like, I mean, I don't know what to say that like, I feel like that's the ugly truth. But it is it doesn't change really that much. Because if you fight for it, if you really want it that bad, you're going to go for it, you're going to do everything you can to get in that room.

And you're going to fight as hard as you can and train as hard as you can and not give up till you make it. So yeah, good. Now there's now some people are going to be one step closer. And now other people aren't going to be they're going to spend some time doing it think they can and they won't. And then you're still going to like, carry on. So things go in cycles. So who knows 15 years from now equity might say, boy, it's really hard to control this influx of people. You need to now work 50. You know, we might go back to it at some point. But at least for now, it's bringing people in. And I think that's, I give him credit for for I give him credit, to be honest, for taking a risk. And equity has always been kind of like, okay, I guess we'll do this.

You know, they've always been a little, a little tentative about certain decisions. And I really give him credit for really going for something and be inclusive. And the influx of people is going to be a lot of young people, a lot of people. And who is the people that are really going to need some opportunities right now? Well, the people that graduated college, and then the pandemic shut, literally shut our business to the ground. So you know what? Yeah, let's let's have a little more. And this business has a tendency to weed people out. So if there's an influx of people that join because they can, and then as time goes on, they realize they don't like acting anymore, or they're not getting the work that they wanted.

They'll leave. Fine, they'll leave. But I don't think I don't think there's any reason to prohibit individuals from joining a union, as long as they have the dues required. And the dues required in this case, it seems is $1,700. So as long as you've got your $1,700, you can be protected because actors need to be protected more. It was bad before COVID. But now it's getting worse.

[47:06] Robert W. Schneider: You're exactly right. You're so I think as many people that can be protected, because if you're in a non-equity, and I listen, I do a lot of non-equity theater, and I and I love doing it because like you, I do not see the difference between the asterisk to me means nothing in terms of quality. So which actually, I'm so happy that you mentioned my theater company, because I mean, we put the new season up on the website. So what we haven't, what is it? Well, we haven't made an official announcement yet, folks. It's been on the website. So if you're interested, we're going to start with in February, we opened February 10 of 2022. And we will be starting with a class act, which was the show that closed on opening night because of COVID.

So opening was supposed to be at 7:30 at 4:30. They said, Hey, don't come in. But don't worry, it'll only be two weeks. And two years later, we're finally getting to do the show. So we're going to start with a class act, which I will say it's just I mean, it's, in my opinion, I think it's just a beautiful production.

[48:12] Kevin David Thomas: You're directing it, right, Rob?

[48:13] Robert W. Schneider: Directing it. Yeah. And it was written by our former guest Lonnie Price, which is great. And then our second show of the season will be a show that has not been done in New York in quite some time. And it's just a chance to make every single person in New York laugh, I hope, and put a smile on their face. And that is the great 1980s musical, A Day in Hollywood, A Night in the Ukraine. A Day in Hollywood, A Night in the Ukraine.

[48:41] Kevin David Thomas: Tony winner?

[48:43] Robert W. Schneider: It did not. It was no, it didn't win Best Musical.

[48:46] Kevin David Thomas: Didn't somebody win? I thought somebody won a Tony.

[48:48] Robert W. Schneider: I think won. Or Priscilla Lopez won.

[48:52] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[48:53] Robert W. Schneider: Or I think, please forgive me, I should know that. But former guest David Garrison was in it when the crowd show marked. So David, if you're listening, come back, take your old role. And so our second show will be A Day in Georgia Serving.

[49:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, A Day in Hollywood, A Night in the Ukraine. And then the third show I'm excited about, because the third show is going to be a show that closed out of town, never came to Broadway, has been in New York at the York Theatre and a couple of other theatres. But I'm excited to dive into it. And that is Stephen Schwartz and Joe Stein's The Baker's Wife.

[49:29] Robert W. Schneider: Amazing.

[49:30] Kevin David Thomas: Which features the great fun Meadowlark as well as Proud Lady and other.

[49:34] Robert W. Schneider: Where's the warmth? I mean, it's gorgeous, gorgeous score. I mean, lush. You know, the fact that Stephen Schwartz did like Pippin, and then he did, you know, Godspell Pippin. And then he was like, here you go. What? It's so smart and deep and mature. And, you know, and you can listen to Carol Dimas' interview with us. She talked, so she was the original before Patti came. It was like, bye. But um, but it's it there. It was fraught, you know, the out of town, you know, it was not without its troubles. But for those of us who love the musical theatre, we it's a, it's a, we love it. It's a cult favourite. It's definitely a cult favourite. I'm so glad that you were able to do that, Rob. That is a really solid season.

[50:15] Robert W. Schneider: Thank you. And so, you know, and we're going to be announcing all of this. But also, it's important to let people know that after every performance, there will be a talkback of some sort with either original cast members or current cast members. So every show will have an event associated with it. And ideally, on our dark nights, when we're not performing, which will be like, I think Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays, we're looking to do lectures, programming concerts, all in celebration of musical theatre. So that's all it's on our website. So I don't feel like I'm telling tales out of school. But, you know, we all hope that you'll be able to join us for our second season, which we're calling it, you know, season two, year three, because it's been such a weird time for all of us.

[51:02] Kevin David Thomas: And we need it. That's exactly the kind of, you know, material we need right now is these kinds of shows, Rob.

[51:08] Robert W. Schneider: So yeah, and you know, and we're also at the same time, Encores! is performing and, you know, Kill Two Birds With One Stone and their season is epically good. It's the tap dance kid, which I'm with Dulé Hill.

[51:21] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I love him.

[51:23] Robert W. Schneider: And then they're doing the life that Billy Porter is directing with former guest Chuck Cooper in it. And then they're going to do this all-star Into the Woods.

[51:31] Kevin David Thomas: Wild.

[51:32] Robert W. Schneider: Did you see that?

[51:33] Kevin David Thomas: Wild. Sara Bareilles, Christian Vorel. I mean, come on. Come on, get out of here. I'm still up by season tickets, and I never thought to do that before.

[51:43] Robert W. Schneider: And I don't know, folks, because the York had their flooding. I don't know if they're doing Mufti at that time, either. So I'm hoping they'll be able to figure out something.

[51:51] Kevin David Thomas: I wonder how they're doing. Yeah, I haven't even heard about that.

[51:54] Robert W. Schneider: Come and see the great stuff that Encores! is doing and hopefully the great stuff that the Spotlight Theatre Company is doing. And Rob, will you please give us your website address, please? Because I forgot it. And so I think I need to be reminded.

[52:05] Robert W. Schneider: www.j2spotlightnyc.com. That's www.j2spotlightnyc.com.

[52:14] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, and 2 as in the number 2. And I'll post it in the info description. Season tickets will go on sale in October, then individual ticket sales will be in November.

[52:23] Robert W. Schneider: That is the game plan.

[52:24] Kevin David Thomas: I can't wait to get mine.

[52:25] Robert W. Schneider: I can't. I can't wait.

[52:27] Kevin David Thomas: And in the meantime, I have to do another shameless plug for myself if I'm more than welcome to do so.

[52:31] Robert W. Schneider: And you better.

[52:32] Kevin David Thomas: You always, I love when you brag. Starting September 7th, I am launching a new podcast.

[52:40] Robert W. Schneider: A podcast.

[52:43] Kevin David Thomas: Is this the fourth one?

[52:45] Robert W. Schneider: Third, third.

[52:46] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, OK. Oh, this is the producing one.

[52:47] Robert W. Schneider: OK, it's number three.

[52:50] Kevin David Thomas: Trace, I'm very excited, folks. It's not theater related. So that's that's a little different for me. But please listen to my new podcast called This Was a Thing, where my co-host Ray Hebel and I, who's an actor I used to work with out in Los Angeles. He and I could not be more different than each other. He is a huge Lakers fan, and I think that's a basketball team.

[53:16] Robert W. Schneider: I was going to say that's a place to go when you want to go sun yourself and listen to the sounds of Broadway.

[53:22] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Thank you, Stu Brown. And it's a podcast that each week we will do a deep dive, a comic deep dive into the cultural happenings of yesteryear. There are original songs. There are original sketches. There's games. It should be a fun time. But please spread the word. We recorded all 52 episodes for the season, and I'm pretty proud of how it came out.

[53:43] Robert W. Schneider: So how did this come about, Rob? Can I ask you how did you how did we didn't talk about this beforehand, folks? How did you how did you guys.

[53:51] Robert W. Schneider: How did you decide on this? How did it come to fruition?

[53:54] Kevin David Thomas: You know what's so interesting? It's sort of like you and I, which is like, we've talked about this many times on the podcast before. It'll be quite often at 2 a.m., I'll get a text from Kevin being like, hey, have you seen this? And it's like Charles Nelson Reilly selling soap. Or I'll text Kevin and be like, hey, have you seen this? And it's usually, you know, Trudy Rittman's grave or something. And so...

[54:16] Robert W. Schneider: That's not far. That's true.

[54:21] Kevin David Thomas: You know, this gentleman who's co-hosting with me, I've known him for years and years and years and years. But our thing is not just theater. It's like...

[54:31] Robert W. Schneider: Pop culture.

[54:33] Kevin David Thomas: Pop culture, like weird fads and stuff like that. Like, hey, did you know that one of the Flying Melinda brothers plunged off a building and died? And there's video of it.

[54:45] Robert W. Schneider: What? Really?

[54:46] Kevin David Thomas: And you give context to it and you talk about it and you kind of, oh, man, I'm going to subscribe to this.

[54:52] Robert W. Schneider: No, thank you. So, yeah.

[54:53] Kevin David Thomas: What's it called again?

[54:54] Robert W. Schneider: It's called This Was a Thing. And so what we do is edit it. I mean, in the 52 episodes that we've recorded for the first year, there's only one theatrical thing. Can you guess what it is?

[55:07] Kevin David Thomas: Spider-Man.

[55:08] Robert W. Schneider: Oh, my God. You're so close, though. It's so in that vein. You're so close.

[55:16] Kevin David Thomas: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[55:18] Robert W. Schneider: Carrie.

[55:19] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, nice. Yeah.

[55:21] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah. But no, I mean, we, I mean, it talks like for our first episode is the history of jazzercise.

[55:28] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, my mom was obsessed with jazzercise.

[55:30] Robert W. Schneider: Exactly. Like, how jazz, you know...

[55:32] Kevin David Thomas: But not anymore. No one does it anymore. But there were clubs. They were like full-on clubs.

[55:35] Robert W. Schneider: Exactly. And how it came to be and how, like, women in fitness were looked at and why this woman, Judy Shepard, miss it, who's, by the way, is now worth two billion dollars.

[55:48] Kevin David Thomas: What?

[55:49] Robert W. Schneider: Yes. She's worth two billion dollars from a Korean...

[55:52] Kevin David Thomas: Buh.

[55:53] Robert W. Schneider: Yes. B. Buh, buh, buh, buh, buh.

[55:55] Kevin David Thomas: Still. Still, too. That was like 30 years ago.

[55:57] Robert W. Schneider: Yes.

[55:58] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, my God. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. This was a thing. I cannot wait.

[56:02] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah. So anyway, so we covered jazzercise. We covered, like, the 1919 World Series scandal. We cover the Brady Bunch Variety Hour. We cover the Davy Crockett craze. I mean, it's dance marathons, if you're a Steel Pier fan.

[56:16] Kevin David Thomas: Yes. Yes. That whole thing was like...

[56:21] Robert W. Schneider: June Havoc's book, that was a favorite thing.

[56:23] Kevin David Thomas: She did one of those. And her book, the whole book's chronicling her.

[56:28] Robert W. Schneider: It wasn't just, like, a week-long one. No, no, no.

[56:30] Kevin David Thomas: There were month-long dance marathons where they literally danced for months.

[56:36] Robert W. Schneider: And they could only sleep for, like, what, like, two hours a night or something like that?

[56:39] Kevin David Thomas: It was insane.

[56:39] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah. But you had to sleep standing up.

[56:44] Kevin David Thomas: Yes. While dancing. Yes.

[56:45] Robert W. Schneider: They would tie you to people. And what I found out, and this is on the podcast, what I found out that was really interesting was if you paid an extra nickel, they would let you sit over in the medic ward where you can watch them, like, tending to people that got sick.

[57:03] Kevin David Thomas: That's right. Because it was all about the audience, because the audience got to know the people. Can you imagine? Because it's like, you know, I watch golf, and so I get to know the players, you know? And you're like, oh, so-and-so, da-da-da. So you got so obsessed with them, and you got to see them and realize... of thinking your town for months or weeks on end, and you're like, how is so-and-so going to do? Well, the husband fell down, you know?

[57:23] Robert W. Schneider: Yes. Yeah.

[57:24] Kevin David Thomas: Wow, Rob.

[57:25] Robert W. Schneider: So anyway, that's the show, folks. So we hope you enjoyed it.

[57:29] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, can't wait.

[57:30] Robert W. Schneider: Ray is a lovely guy. He's a joy to work with.

[57:33] Kevin David Thomas: Can't wait to meet him. That's great.

[57:34] Robert W. Schneider: Take a listen to that. And also, Kevin and I were talking today, we were also talking about some favorite things that we've encountered since our last time we talked to one another.

[57:47] Kevin David Thomas: So I have one, and I know you have one. Who wants to go first?

[57:50] Robert W. Schneider: It could be real quick, yeah. I'm going to give you a real quick one.

[57:55] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, because I know we've exercised your ears a lot, listeners, and we so thank you so much for this. So just to be official, we're going to throw a favorite thing out. So my favorite thing is an Instagram account. And I know that some of you may not have Instagram, but I think you can still view it on the internet if you need to. But this is an Instagram account that constantly amazes me, and I know, Rob, you're going to agree with me. I think we know... I have an LP collection. I've got a lot of cast recordings. I collect them. It's a passion of mine. This account posts albums of a specific kind, and I will tell you that there are times that I'm like, what? How have I never heard of this musical?

And why have I never heard of it before? And I'm like ashamed of it. And I'm always like, oh, my God. Jarrell, how did I not know this? How did I not know about this show? So this is a friend of our podcast's, a secondary account that he has on the Instagram. His name is Jarrell Henderson. If you were with us a year ago when we did our trivia night, he was a guest host with us for trivia. Jarrell is an amazing director, a wonderful human being. And so this Instagram account is called black underscore theater, that's T-R-E underscore vinyl underscore archive, black theater vinyl archive with underscores between each of those words. So please go here. It's a public account. You can always see it.

Oh, my God. Jarrell has like, I'm going to scroll and I'm going to try to count how many. First of all, Jarrell, your record collection is sick. It's stupid. It's like, yeah, like you constantly post stuff. And I'm like, how did you even find like he posted the other day? So what Jarrell does is he'll post the album and it's so beautifully curated. He'll post the cover of the artwork, you know, the artwork and then the album itself. I mean, the record album. And then when you scroll through the post, he'll show all of like, you know, the people of color who are on these albums and who are special. And most of them are, some of them are like, yes, full on like Ossie and Ruby and Bread and Roses, a piece that I had never even heard of.

This is Ossie Davis and Ruby Dee in an album of their own. Right. And so I'm like, what? How did I not know about this? And he posts the credits. He posts the songs on it. He posts some of the album work, because what I love about LPs is that there's just amazing pictures that you just don't get anymore. Especially Hello. We all do Spotify or Apple Music and there's no album work. There's none of it. So you don't get any of it. Mickey Grant died and he posted like all of the stuff. So then now what he does is Joel is now posting, like he'll show his record player playing some of Don't Bother Me, I Can't Cope. And so you get like a taste of it. So listeners, please go to this Instagram account and just click on any of them and your mind will be blown.

Yes, you'll see like Sweet Charity and you're like, oh, why is, oh, Thelma Oliver. Of course. Yes. So we're celebrating. Then there'll be Quantina, which is, you know, with the Billy Taylor Orchestra, which is this great jazz rendition of Quantina from 1961. Because in those days, the albums, Broadway show tunes were meant to be popular. So a lot of times people wanted to extract what they could from these shows and make an album out of it. But then there'll be this one thing with Lena Horne. I was like, how have I never heard of, sorry, not Lena Horne, Cleo Lane in Cindy Ella or I Got a Shoe. I've never heard of this. I never knew about it. I've never even seen anything about this. Ned Sheeran wrote some of it.

It's an original cast. I think it's London. Had no idea. And I cannot tell you how many times he will post an album and I'll be so jealous that I don't have the album. So I will, I will buy it. I'll just go on. I'll go on eBay and I will. I need it and I want it and I need to have that. And so I will add it to the collection and listen to it and observe it and just respect it. And I'm scrolling and scrolling, scrolling everything from, you know, Eartha Kitt and New Faces of 1952 to, you know, I was shocked when I saw Regina. It's one of my favorite operas of contemporary operas by Mark Blitzstein. Mark Blitzstein, to me, is one of the most under under known, you know, writers of our era. But it's because Carol Brice was on it.

And she's, you know, this amazing performer. And so he just he's he's giving you he's serving you attention to a lot of under known stuff and over known stuff. But I'm sorry, I'm getting distracted by Pearl Bailey and all of the other people I see. I didn't know if I could hear you. And it's just it's such it's a great celebration of of a black theater. And and I think as we were talking, I think, off air about Mickey Grant, and I don't want it, I guess, because I was saying how I really feel like she's should be known better. And I think this is a great one stop shop to really educate yourself on the parts that you've been missing. And the artists that have, yeah, that are really, really that are really fantastic and special.

So and it's not just like there's not like 20 albums on here. Again, I still cannot get over that. They're like, it's like 100 different posts already. And it's just a really, really, really well done. So please, please, please go to Black Theater Vinyl Archive to really open your eyes on to a very important corner of the the musical theater world that is very special and influential to the entire musical theater world. And so, yeah, that's that's my favorite thing.

[1:03:01] Robert W. Schneider: I love that. I love that.

[1:03:03] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Jarell L. Henderson is, first of all, is an amazing person. He's just an amazing person. He's a brilliant director and does fabulous work with puppetry. And he resides in the Chicago area. So if you're ever in Chicago and you get to see one of his shows, please do it because he's he's a very special person and was great because he did our black musical theater trivia for us, like you were saying, and just really great, great individuals. So I'm so happy that you mentioned this Instagram because it is fantastic. It's so good. I learned so, so much. And I you know, and I thought I knew a couple of things and I don't, I don't at all. I don't. And it was great. I mean, he will pull out obscure things that you just go, what? How have I never heard of this?

[1:04:18] Robert W. Schneider: Right. And then then you'll see something you're like, oh, yeah, I know that Porgy and Bess, of course. But then, oh, this recording of Porgy and Bess, I forgot about that recording or, you know, whatever. So it's really, really, really, really great.

[1:04:29] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. So congrats. I think it's such a great choice.

[1:04:32] Robert W. Schneider: Um, I have mine is, uh, is a total one 80. Um, and, and resides in the world and.

[1:04:42] Kevin David Thomas: And, uh, all right, my friends, uh, over the summer, we, we lost someone, uh, we lost someone very special to me, at least because, uh, he, he makes me laugh, although he got a little nuts.

[1:04:49] Robert W. Schneider: So in this later years, and that is the great comedian, Jackie Mason, Jackie, what's the funds? And what's the funds? And on the moon is someone who talks in the bathtub and bites the bubbles. Let me tell you what's going on in Palestine because things you don't know, look at him. He's the, you're listening. Thank you. That was my Jackie Mason impression. He, he, he really, he was not without controversy, but he was specific and he knew what his humor was. He knew exactly what his humor was. Everyone lives adjacent to Beverly Hills. Where do you live? 90 miles this way. Mr. You're laughing. You're killing it. You're doing such a good job. It's so good. We saw like when we were doing interviews all the time at Chetler studios, I felt like we saw him every other week. I mean, it was like the seventh and seventh 57th and Broadway. There's Jackie. There's the red air sitting at apple Jack diner.

[1:05:46] Kevin David Thomas: That picture you posted of him. I remember I actually got to meet him once at route 66, which is, I think like I'm 56 or 57 and 10th and 10th. Nobody goes into, I'm sitting there by myself eating. And he walks in with his wife, I'm assuming. And I'm like, I'm just going to go up to him. I'm going to say, I said, hi, I don't mean to bother you. I said, I just want to let you know what a big fan I am of your work. And he goes, why should that bother me? He goes, who do you work for? And I said, I work for Feinstein already, already trying to figure out like how he can get still performing. He goes, and I said, I was like, well, Michael is much younger than you. You're still performing, but it was so funny to be like, that's a cop. Why is that a bother to me? A compliment? I love that. That's the same borscht belt, like joke. He's been using since like 1930 in the Catskills, you know?

[1:06:42] Robert W. Schneider: So I have only, listen, we know about his political views, but I only heard as an artist, he was nothing but good to everybody. Except his daughter.

[1:06:59] Kevin David Thomas: You see, Jackie Mason has had an illegitimate daughter. And her name is Sheba Mason. And she played her mother in the mom's autobiographical musical called

[1:07:19] Kevin David Thomas: Both sides of a famous love affair. The Jackie Mason musical.

[1:07:24] Robert W. Schneider: Oh my God. Oh my gosh. Once again, folks, it's called Both Sides of a Famous Love Affair. The Jackie Mason musical. You see this woman, uh, Gayle, uh, or sorry, not Gayle, I apologize, Ginger, Ginger Ryder, um, has a great line and her line is don't ever fall in love with a fallen star. That fallen star that she fell in love with was a gentleman, a comedian who was on the skids by the name of Jackie Mason. Uh, and they met in probably one of the most romantic spots you could ever imagine. That's Wolfie Cohen's Rascal House Restaurant in North Miami. One of the most beautiful places that you can go. They fell in love, they had a baby, and in 1985, Sheba was born. And then Jackie... 1985? Yes, 1985.

And then, uh, Jackie Mason spent the rest of his life denying that Sheba was his child. Now, uh, Sheba worked very, very hard in trying to get dad's attention. In fact, not only does Sheba look like him, she also became a stand-up comic. So, they decided to write a musical. And this musical, once again, folks, is called Both Sides of a Famous Love Affair. The Jackie Mason musical. And it is played in such places as Chicago and Miami. And, uh, the, like I said, the daughter, Sheba, usually plays the mother. And then different actors will come in and play Jackie Mason. Now, Kevin, folks, you're gonna have to forgive me for a second, because this might not register for you, but it'll register for Kevin. So, Kevin, I've heard to watch some songs from this, and I'm like, boy, that guy Jackie Mason, the one playing him, looks really familiar. Kevin, do you know who that is?

[1:09:04] Kevin David Thomas: Wait, who? What do you mean?

[1:09:14] Robert W. Schneider: Jackie Mason in this musical?

[1:09:19] Kevin David Thomas: No, who is it?

[1:09:19] Robert W. Schneider: Kevin, his name is Ian Wuerl, and Kevin, he's the sound designer for all the NYFA musicals we've done.

[1:09:25] Kevin David Thomas: What?

[1:09:31] Robert W. Schneider: Look, Ian, the sound guy from New York Film Academy that does all the musicals we've done. You know, the real nice, quiet, sweet man? He's Jackie Mason in these musicals.

[1:09:38] Kevin David Thomas: You're literally rocking my world right now, and I can't even pretend, but I'm gonna like...

[1:09:52] Robert W. Schneider: No, it can't be the same one. It's gotta be different.

[1:09:53] Kevin David Thomas: It is. Yes, it is. Because I looked him up, and I looked at his artwork, and it's him.

[1:09:59] Robert W. Schneider: It is. It is. It is. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, Rob. How's that for you? How did I never know this?

[1:10:09] Kevin David Thomas: How? I've worked with him on like seven different shows. I just did a show with him four months ago. Rob, I am literally... I just thought he was a sound designer. I didn't know he was... Oh, my God.

[1:10:20] Robert W. Schneider: Right? Right?

[1:10:24] Kevin David Thomas: I am speechless. I know this is shocking for you guys, but I am completely... Oh, my God, Rob. Oh, my God. That explains why he does all the sound work. Oh, my God. He looks like him, too, like a younger... Oh, my God. I got a lot to talk about him when we do another show again. I'd like to ask him about this, but folks, there's some wonderful...

[1:10:58] Robert W. Schneider: How has he never brought this up?

[1:11:00] Kevin David Thomas: Well, I think if you watch, you'll figure out.

[1:11:03] Robert W. Schneider: You really... You said you got a little... You were going to sneak attack me, and this was really... This was truly something I'm shocked by. Now, folks, for those of you that don't...

[1:11:15] Robert W. Schneider: For those of you that don't remember, folks, Jackie Mason had a very interesting life, which was he was a very popular comedian, and he had an altercation with Ed Sullivan in the 1960s, which Ed Sullivan accused him of giving... Jackie Mason giving him the middle finger on the air during a broadcast. It was not true. It was not true. It was misconstrued. But because of that, Jackie Mason was blacklisted for a number of years and could not get any work. He appeared in The Jerk. He appeared in History of the World and was playing... Excuse me, dive comedy clubs until he did a show on Broadway in 1986 called Jackie Mason, The World According to Me, which ended up being one of the most brilliant one-person shows ever to grace the Broadway stage.

He was given a special Tony Award for it, and that rebounded his career. So in that period of when he's not successful is when he met Ginger and when he had Sheba. And I don't want to give any more away because it's all musicalized, but there's a wonderful song about that Ed Sullivan experience I was talking about, because my story is not great in mere words. It's better in the song The Finger, which is from the great musical, Both Sides of a Famous Love Affair, The Jackie Mason Musical. So that... It's the website, folks, is thejackiemasonmusical.com. So I just want to tell you that. That's where you can go to check it out.

[1:12:47] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, that is exactly where you can go to check it out. But please don't forget, folks, that the full title is Both Sides of a Famous Love Affair, The Jackie Mason Musical. And I just want to read you some of the reviews that came out here. A magnificent undiscovered gem with a talented ensemble cast and inspiring, well-written music. I saw the show the last time it had a run in New York and I became a big fan of the music. And that's from the iconic critic, Dr. Thomas Robert Stevens, from his online edition of Applause Applause. And you know what they say, if you don't get a good review from Applause Applause, why do you even bother running?

[1:13:33] Robert W. Schneider: I think this is one of the most amazing favorite things that you've ever delivered, Rob. I am just completely flabbergasted by it, to be honest. I had no idea. It was at the Davenport for a little bit, and I'm pretty sure there were some legal battles.

[1:13:51] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, you think?

[1:13:53] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah.

[1:13:54] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my goodness.

[1:13:55] Robert W. Schneider: But I encourage you folks, like I said, it's celebrating Jackie Mason. I know one time on here I did his music video. If you remember, he did a music video called Amour that I think was written by Paul Jabara?

[1:14:08] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, yes, yes.

[1:14:11] Robert W. Schneider: Oh my God. Oh my God. Rachel Lilley Rosenblum.

[1:14:14] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[1:14:14] Robert W. Schneider: Wasn't that Paul Jabara?

[1:14:16] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:14:17] Robert W. Schneider: That's mine, folks. Take a look at that, Jackie Mason. Wow.

[1:14:23] Kevin David Thomas: Obviously, there's lots of other things that I could have chosen that I found. Like, for example, I just found some sketches in color of Charles Nelson Riley and Nancy Walker doing sketches on The Ed Sullivan Show.

[1:14:40] Robert W. Schneider: Oh, fantastic.

[1:14:42] Kevin David Thomas: And someone also recently posted this. It's Bette Davis and Burt Lahr doing one of their sketches from Two on the Aisle. And it's so nice to see. I mean, there's lots of stuff that we can cover. I mean, there's so many wonderful books and television shows and musicals, but I just thought it might be fun to explore Jackie Mason and both sides of a famous love affair.

[1:15:06] Robert W. Schneider: Wow. The Jackie Mason musical.

[1:15:09] Kevin David Thomas: I know what I'm doing tonight.

[1:15:11] Robert W. Schneider: And I think we should both reach out to Ian and say, how come you never mentioned this?

[1:15:17] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I will be. Thank you very much.

[1:15:19] Robert W. Schneider: And it should also be noted that Jackie Mason did take a paternity test because he said that Sheba was not his daughter, and it was 99.9% accurate, to which Jackie Mason said, what about the 0.1%?

[1:15:31] Kevin David Thomas: So, folks, it was so nice getting to catch up with you. Let us know your thoughts. We talked about a lot of stuff that we didn't. And like I said, we're not even going to talk about the stuff that's making the industry go crazy on one another. Certain individuals. You can go on Twitter for that, you know, and we'll see you there as well.

[1:15:49] Robert W. Schneider: You can go on Twitter for all that stuff.

[1:15:51] Kevin David Thomas: And now Rob's on Twitter, so now you're going to see him as well. So we'll see you there.

[1:15:56] Robert W. Schneider: We ain't touching it with a 10-foot pole.

[1:15:59] Kevin David Thomas: Let's keep it positive.

[1:16:01] Robert W. Schneider: So we are keeping it positive. All right, my friends, if you can, on Thursday, go see Kevin and Todd Wonapane at Feinstein's 54 Below. If you get a chance to see something else that the Bridge Production Group does for Title of Show, go do that. Next summer, come see me, hopefully, at the College Light Opera Company. And pretty soon, get yourself a ticket to see Kevin and Todd Wonapane at Feinstein's 54 Below.

[1:16:25] Kevin David Thomas: Next summer, come see me, hopefully, at the College Light Opera Company. And pretty soon, get yourself some season tickets to the J2 Spotlight Music Company.

[1:16:29] Robert W. Schneider: I'm going to.

[1:16:31] Kevin David Thomas: That's that. And subscribe to my new podcast, This Was a Thing.

[1:16:37] Robert W. Schneider: And I'm sure we'll come back with guests pretty soon.

[1:16:40] Kevin David Thomas: I think so. And we'll do some more favorite things, too.

[1:16:43] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah. Now that everything's revving back up again. I miss you, and it's fun to do this.

[1:16:47] Kevin David Thomas: It was. It was so nice to see you. Hopefully, everyone enjoyed getting to reconnect. But we'd love to hear from all of you, okay? We'll see you soon. Adios, my friends.

[1:16:58] Robert W. Schneider: Bye, everybody.

[1:16:59] Kevin David Thomas: Bye.

[1:17:00] ♪ Musical number: "My Favorite Things" — performed by Ray Hebel and Rob Schneider ♪

[1:17:18] Ray Hebel: Hi, I'm Ray Hebel.

[1:17:21] Robert W. Schneider: And I'm Rob Schneider.

[1:17:22] Ray Hebel: And on September 7th, we'll be launching our new podcast, This Was a Thing, a podcast that will dive deep into the cultural happenings of yesteryear.

[1:17:31] Robert W. Schneider: Now, you might know Ray from The Most Popular Girls in School and TruTV's Dr. Havoc's Diary.

[1:17:36] Ray Hebel: And you might know Rob from his other podcasts, Behind the Curtain, Broadway's Living Legends, and Gay Card Revoked.

[1:17:42] Robert W. Schneider: But we know each other from a chance meeting at Sandals Resort in 2002. In between Mai Tais and Beach Cornhole, we discovered we had an affinity for crazy, culturally insignificant things from the past.

[1:17:55] Ray Hebel: The things that people wanted to forget, we wanted to remember.

[1:17:58] Robert W. Schneider: That's right, Rob. Every Tuesday, we are going to serve you a delicious heaping helping of nostalgia with a side of sass and guac. But the guac will cost you extra.

[1:18:10] Ray Hebel: You see, we have searched, scoured, and sought out the greatest cultural happenings from the past few centuries, and we want to share what we learned with you.

[1:18:19] Robert W. Schneider: We will cover movies.

[1:18:21] Ray Hebel: Who's your favorite Batman villain?

[1:18:23] Robert W. Schneider: I'd say George Clooney's Batnips are probably my favorite Batman villain.

[1:18:27] Ray Hebel: Television.

[1:18:29] Robert W. Schneider: Was America ready to see Mike Brady dancing?

[1:18:33] Ray Hebel: Broadway.

[1:18:34] Robert W. Schneider: Yes, they actually did make a musical of Stephen King's Carrie. And yes, there was a song where the cast actually chanted, Kill the Pig.

[1:18:41] Ray Hebel: Oh, wow.

[1:18:43] Robert W. Schneider: Music.

[1:18:45] Ray Hebel: Now, why would the Beach Boys' Mike Love say, Don't fuck with the formula?

[1:18:51] Robert W. Schneider: True crime.

[1:18:52] Ray Hebel: So apparently, Lana Turner confessed to her hairdresser that she killed Johnny Stompanato and that her daughter took the rap. Can you imagine being that hairdresser?

[1:19:00] Robert W. Schneider: Excuse me, Miss Sweater Girl, what did you say to me?

[1:19:05] Ray Hebel: We can set that permanent wave later, Mary.

[1:19:08] Robert W. Schneider: The only thing I want to be a witness to are those split ends.

[1:19:11] Ray Hebel: Mmm, fashion.

[1:19:13] Robert W. Schneider: Suddenly, because of Davy Crockett, Raccoon Tail soared from 25 cents a pound to $8 a pound.

[1:19:20] Ray Hebel: I can't afford that.

[1:19:22] Robert W. Schneider: Personalities.

[1:19:23] Ray Hebel: So yes, apparently, there is a rich little sex tape.

[1:19:27] Robert W. Schneider: What do you think is on that rich little sex tape?

[1:19:30] Ray Hebel: If Jimmy Stewart was going to go down on you, it might sound a little something like this.

[1:19:38] Robert W. Schneider: Toys.

[1:19:39] Ray Hebel: The Cabbage Patch Riots of 1983 is unlike anything we have ever seen.

[1:19:44] Robert W. Schneider: Politics.

[1:19:45] Ray Hebel: Now, get this. When William Henry Harrison died, nobody knew if John Tyler was actually the president.

[1:19:52] Robert W. Schneider: What?

[1:19:53] Ray Hebel: Tech.

[1:19:55] Robert W. Schneider: Like, the person I probably connected with the most during high school was MySpace Todd, so I get it.

[1:19:59] Ray Hebel: Trends.

[1:20:03] Robert W. Schneider: Yes, I am a bald man. And yes, I will explain how Rachel Green got her sun-kissed highlights.

[1:20:08] Ray Hebel: So please, stop laughing at me.

[1:20:10] Robert W. Schneider: You just want sun-kissed.

[1:20:12] Ray Hebel: So join us on Tuesday, September 7th, when we launch the first season of This Was a Thing, available anywhere you get your podcasts.

[1:20:20] Robert W. Schneider: And to get a jumpstart on all the nostalgic things we will be covering, head over to our Twitter and Instagram at This Was a Thing Pod, or our Facebook at This Was a Thing Podcast, and follow us.

[1:20:32] Ray Hebel: This Was a Thing, September 7th.

[1:20:34] Robert W. Schneider: Check us out.

[1:20:35] Ray Hebel: Check you out!