This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Rob Schneider: Will everyone here kindly step to the rear and let a winner lead the way? If you are a movie buff, then you know that more often than not, a sequel to a movie is never as good as the original. Case in point, Caddyshack 2, which traded Rodney Dangerfield for Jackie Mason, and such great lines as, "What's a funzanoon? A funzanoon is someone who farts in the bathtub and bites the bubbles." Now, don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure that screenplay was written by Tennessee Williams, but I digress. You can't punish those who want to replicate a hit and make it just as financially fruitful as the first IP. That's intellectual property, kiddies. See, I learned something from the Marvel franchise. And the 1980s were full of film sequels.

Think about Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jaws. So why couldn't Broadway do it as well? And with one of the most successful musicals to have ever hit the stage, Annie. But what had once been an easy street was now a dead end. See, what happened was, well, we will tell you when we look at the ill-fated sequel to Annie, Annie 2, Miss Hannigan's Revenge, on this week's Broadway Bound, the musicals that never came to Broadway.

[1:18] Rob Schneider: Hi, I'm Rob Schneider, and welcome to Broadway Bound, the musicals that never came to Broadway, the podcast. There isn't a person out there who doesn't know the adorable little red-haired moppet known as Andrew Keenan Bulger. No, I'm kidding. It's Annie. Annie. Her name's Annie. Little Orphan Annie. I am sure there is now a politically correct term for Little Orphan Annie, like short stature victim of terminated parental rights Annie, but that's hard to rhyme. Even for the late, great Martin Charnin, the lyricist and mastermind behind Annie's journey from page to stage and the engine behind today's episode. Yes, it was Martin Charnin or Martin Charnin, depending on how you'd like to say his name, composer Charles Strauss and librettist Thomas Meehan that created one of the greatest musicals of all time.

But who were they? And how did Annie come to revolutionize not only Broadway, but the world? Annie was the brainchild of Martin Charnin, the original big deal in West Side Story. Martin told me that his audition for West Side Story consisted of walking across the stage, and Jerome Robbins liked him. Can you imagine that happening today after 900 dance calls? But Martin wanted to be a lyricist, and he worked on a lot of projects, but none of them really had percolated. There was Judy Holliday's last vehicle Hotspot, a 1963 musical comedy about a PR crisis for the Peace Corps. I know, right? And there was Zenda, a musical about doppelgangers switching places. Now, remember that later on, friends.

It's going to come back to this show, which had never left California. And finally, Mata Hari, produced by David Merrick and closing on the road, despite a marvelous score by Charnin and Edward Thomas that was thwarted by the misdirection of Vincent Minelli, or as we know him in these circles, Papa. We will probably discuss Mata Hari on another episode, so I won't get too much into depth here. But finally, in 1970, Charnin got an actual success, and that was Two by Two with Richard Rogers and starring the man everyone loved to hate, Danny Kaye, who often ended the show at bows, saying to the audience he was grateful that they were there, but the writers were not. Oh, boy. In the early 1970s, Charnin was known as a review guy, directing and creating Nash at Nine, Music Music, the National Lampoon Show, none of which had a long life, but it seemed TV was going to be his new home, because he won the Emmy for producing Annie, The Women in the Life of a Man, starring Anne Bancroft, with contributions by a guy named Thomas Meehan, and he also won an Emmy for S'Wonderful, S'Marvelous, S'Gershwin.

I just imagine that the actual show was called Wonderful, Marvelous, S'Gershwin, but somebody had a list, but we digress. This show, S'Wonderful, S'Marvelous, S'Gershwin, had an all-star cast of folks like Jack Lemmon, Fred Astaire, and Ethel Merman, but Martin had a deep desire to do a big old book musical that would land on Broadway, and one day, while shopping for a Christmas gift, he discovered an anthology of Thomas Gray's Depression-era comic strip, Little Orphan Annie, and it felt musical. A precocious little girl, a stuffy father figure, and colorful characters filled with optimism. In 1972, Charnin approached his old buddy, Tom Meehan, also had worked on the Anne Bancroft show, and Tom was known for being well-known in literary circles in New York for his brilliant 1962 article, Ima Dream, which ended up then being performed by Anne Bancroft on her special. This is Ima Dream, just to give you a sense of Thomas Meehan.

[4:49] Rob Schneider: Ima Dream I had this dream. I was giving a cocktail party for Ima Sumac, the Peruvian singer. This is odd. I mean, I adore her singing, but I've never met Ima Sumac, and even in a dream, it seems strange that I should be giving her a party. Anyhow, she and I are alone in the living room of my apartment on Beekman Place. The doorbell rings. I open the door, and there to my delight is Ava Gardner. Darling, she says, how wonderful of you to have asked me. Funny, I don't know Ava Gardner either, but in the dream, all of my guests know me very well. Oddly, though, none of them seem to know each other. Anyhow, Ava Gardner, I say I'd like you to meet Ima Sumac. Ah, please, says Miss Sumac. Let us not be so formal, por favor.

Introduce each guest only by their first names, so that we may become, how shall I say, amigos. Fine with me, I believe, and introduce the two again. Ava, Ima. The doorbell rings. The second guest is Aba Eban, the Israeli foreign minister. I make the introductions, and as Miss Sumac asked, I keep things on a first name basis. Aba, Ima. Aba, Ava. I start to grin, but no one else finds anything amusing in what I've said. The doorbell. It's Una O'Neill, Charlie Chaplin's wife. I bring her into the room. Una, Ima. Una, Ava. Una, Aba. But Meehan had not written a musical before, yet Charnin thought he could do it, even though Meehan wasn't sold on the idea of Annie as a musical. And neither was Charles Strauss, the composer of Bye Bye Birdie, All American, and of course, the All in the Family theme song.

All with lyricist Lee Adams, who he had stopped working with at this time. Charnin would be his collaborator, his lyricist instead. None of these guys, in the age of Stephen Sondheim and rock musicals in Vietnam and Watergate, could figure out why an audience would want to see a cartoon on stage. Sure, it worked for Little Abner, but for Annie? And who would be Annie? Bernadette Peters? That's camp. That could work, but Charnin didn't want camp. Meehan didn't know what to do, because the strips weren't giving him anything to inspire him, so he created his own story. Now, you should know Annie by now, but if you don't, Annie is living in an orphanage in Depression-era New York, and the orphanage is run by the wicked, washed-up Miss Hannigan.

One day, Oliver Warbucks, the richest man in the world, wants to adopt an orphan, so his secretary Grace gets him one. Annie. Warbucks holds a contest to find Annie's birth parents with a huge reward, and that's where Rooster, Hannigan's brother, and his ditzy girlfriend, Lily St. Regis, enter the picture. They will disguise themselves as Annie's parents, who are dead, get the cash, split it three ways, and live on Easy Street. That's the plan, but of course, all is found out. Warbucks adopts Annie, and we assume marries Grace's secretary, and all is well. There are even visits from President Roosevelt, Hooverville residents, and of course, my personal favorite, Mr. Bundles. Yes, Mr. Bundles the laundryman. I think he's the greatest character in Annie, but if Annie was one thing, she was optimistic. Take it away, Annie.

[8:14] Rob Schneider: Well, these three gentlemen, against all odds, got a production at the Goodspeed Opera House in Connecticut on August 10, 1976, despite Meehan and Strauss saying this show was never going to work. It didn't. It didn't work. Audiences were bored, critics were dismissive, and it looked like Annie would be one of those shows that would fade in the memory of Goodspeed audiences, but Charnin at this point couldn't really afford a flop. This was his first big book musical as lyricist and director. He had to show he was more than the review guy, so tough decisions had to be made. Kristen Vigard, the original Annie, switched places with a firecracker in the ensemble named Andrea McArdle, and that helped a lot.

Then Uber director, not like he directed Uber, but he was a big director at the time, Mike Nichols, was brought kicking and screaming to see the show and felt something was there, and he advised the team on what to trim, what to add, and who to fire. Next on the chopping block was Maggie Task, who was, as Miss Hannigan at the time, too abrasive, too cruel, too cold. You had to love to hate her. You just hated Task. Nichols knew exactly who could play this role, and that was one of the unluckiest ladies in show business. In fact, she shows up in three of our ten episodes this season. Dorothy Loudon. Dorothy Loudon was one of those supporting players who always seemed to be the best thing about a bad show.

She was a saloon singer abroad whose patter included consistently interrupting herself singing to make jokes, comments, sarcastic asides, like a tougher Carol Burnett. This is a little sense of Miss Dorothy Loudon.

[10:34] Rob Schneider: Nobody knew what to do with Dorothy's brassiness and uniqueness. Flop after flop, closed out of town show after closed out of town show. Loudon wasn't even a has-been, she was a never-was. But Nichols knew she could play Hannigan and make the show pop. Well, he was right. Loudon elevated the show, and some of the funniest lines of the script are actually from Loudon's ad-libs, such as, "Why any kid would want to be an orphan, I'll never know." Well, on April 21, 1977, Annie opened at the Alvin Theatre, playing right alongside a Kurt Vile musical, a wife-swapping musical, and a review of Stephen Sondheim's Cynicism, and Charnin was finally right. Annie was exactly what Broadway wanted. Tonys for set design, costume design, score, book, choreography, Dorothy Loudon, and best musical.

Charnin was nominated for Best Director, but lost to Gene Sax for I Love My Wife. Now, there are two stories here that I have heard. One is that Sax's ability, on incredibly short notice, to take an average show and make it look great, deserved some credit, but the word on the street that I had also heard, I had spoken to one of the nominators that year, the word around town was that Mike Nichols was more of the directing force on Annie, which is not true at all, but because he was known as a director, and because his name was splashed everywhere, people just sort of bought into that scurrilous piece of gossip. Annie was going to be the launching pad of all these people, for a show that was produced for $800,000, it earned a profit between $20 million and $30 million, including a $9.5 million movie sale.

How do you keep that momentum? What was going to happen to all these incredible talents between opening and the show's closing on January 2nd, 1983, after a total of 2,377 performances? The answer is not much. Loudon left, went into another flop called Ballroom, which played 50% capacity. Get it? 50% capacity? Okay. Tried to star in a TV series, which was cancelled after four episodes. Charnin tackled I Remember Mama with Richard Rodgers, and that flopped, as did The First, his musical about Jackie Robinson, starring David Alan Greer. Strauss also flopped with Charlie and Algernon in Bring Back Birdie. It seemed like everyone was back to square one, except Thomas Meehan, who was beginning to collaborate with Mel Brooks on screenplays that would turn out to be, to be, or not to be, and Spaceballs.

Maybe Annie was a fluke of their talents. Maybe without Mike Nichols at the top of the pyramid, what the bitter show queens were saying at Howard Johnson's was true. Strauss's best days were behind him. Charnin was the review guy, not the Broadway guy. Loudon belonged in cabarets, and Meehan would thrive in Hollywood on the coattails of someone else. They just couldn't replicate their brilliance independently. Maybe that is why, when Annie closed, at the curtain call, Charnin stood on stage and exclaimed that Annie's story would continue. Yes, in the next Broadway season, the 1983-1984 season, there would indeed be Annie too. The press loved it. Audiences began applauding wildly. The curtain rang down as Charnin looked at a confused Charles Strauss and Thomas Meehan and said, "Fellas, what if we start with Hannigan in jail and we call it Miss Hannigan's Revenge?"

A musical sequel? It happened before 50 years earlier with Of Thee I Sing and Let Him Eat Cake, and it happened two years earlier with Charles Strauss on the disastrous Bring Back Bertie, a sequel to Bye Bye Bertie, which asked, "What happened to Albert and Rosie?" The answer, it seemed, was, "Who cares?" Strauss remembered, "Was it age or greed or that same old devil that sat on my shoulder back in 1980 when I wrote Bring Back Bertie, who now appeared in the guise of Martin Charnin? Hey, Charles, the devil Martin said, I've got a great idea. What is it? I asked. How about doing a show? Not really a sequel."

[14:47] Robert W. Schneider: But a continuation. What are you talking about? I'm talking about Annie 2. I've asked myself, would I go see a chorus line 2 or Cats 2? And I decided, no, I wouldn't. But no matter. Strouse, who had very few other things going on, signed up. And according to Charnin, Annie 2 would go into rehearsal in spring and then open the summer of 1984 after a national tour. Charnin was quoted as saying the sequel would be an adventure and chase story, sort of our Raiders of the Lost Ark, and it would be an extravaganza taking place in many, many locations. But he emphasized that the plot would still center on the relationship between Annie and Warbucks and that Miss Hannigan would resurface. Then Annie 2 would come in during the 1985 season.

86, 87. And it kept getting delayed and delayed because they hadn't figured out what exactly the story was until May of 1987, when they asked, what if Warbucks had to get married? And this was what the plot was going to be. The show would open exactly where it left off. The cast would sing the ending bars of A New Deal for Christmas, and then the press arrive and the orphans act out all the events of Annie 1 to get the newspaper men up to speed. At the end of this mega mix, Annie removes her old locket and gives it to Warbucks and says she is ready to be his daughter, but would love to keep the locket in a safe place. And he says he will put it in his safe where he keeps his 20 million dollars.

Isn't that unsafe? The press asks. Not at all. It would be easier to get into Fort Knox. Oh, foreshadowing. And then this is my favorite note in the outline. Now, the orphans giggling about Warbucks and Grace holding hands suggest to Annie that she'll soon have not only a wonderful father, but also a wonderful mother, too. Annie will have everything. Annie agrees. I'll never have to sing tomorrow again, says Annie, because tomorrow is at last here. It's today. With a verse written to the music of tomorrow, Annie then sings a brand new song entitled Today. The end of the number marks the end of scene one. That's in the outline. Annie arranges for all the Hooverville residents to go see Anything Goes.

I'm not joking. And while outside of the theater, she and Warbucks are approached by Mrs. Rochelle Van Cortland of the Society for the Perpetuation of American Motherhood, who says anything goes except bachelors adopting prepubescent girls. Then they sing a song called Motherhood and reveal Warbucks has 60 days to find a wife and mother or Annie gets taken away. Leaping conservative lizards. Now, why not Grace? Why can't he marry Grace? Well, Warbucks admits he's too old for Grace and she deserves better. And he sings a song called A Younger Man. Oh, the truth of it is, Annie, she's not too young for me. Oh, but I'm too old for her. She's a lovely thing. And don't I know it. She belongs in the arms of a younger man.

[19:00] Robert W. Schneider: Meanwhile, the orphans mooching off Annie in her palatial playroom sing a song called Rich Kid about how Annie is so spoiled. These kids are assholes. But the song is interrupted with a bulletin that Hannigan, Lily, and Rooster have all broken out of jail. The orphans, terrified, will stay with Warbucks until she is captured. Our trio of criminals sing an Easy Street-esque song and then they realize their dirt broke. What to do? What to do? Well, as they ponder their life at Clancy's Bar, a 15-year-old boy, Spit McGuire, also I think also featured on Corbin Fisher, comes in to show off his talented sister Maggie, who sings a reverse Tomorrow about how bad life is and her thick New York City accent of dems and does.

But Hannigan isn't listening. No, no, no. This girl is the spitting image of Annie. What if, Hannigan conjures, they teach Maggie to be Annie, swap her out for the real Annie, have Warbucks reveal to her the safe's location and combo, and boom, they're on Easy Street. They go through a Reign in Spain montage trying to teach this girl to be Annie, how to be cheerful, how to be optimistic. They use crates and bar stools to be the mansion and they all pretend to be Grace, Warbucks, and servants. And finally, she is ready and they are going to make the switch at the opening of Oriental Temple of Mystery in Coney Island, where Annie has been promised to be the first one to ride through its darkened halls and corridors.

Annie gets in the car and goes through the ride and emerges. Warbucks hugs her and she says, Oh, Daddy, that was great fun, followed by Sandy snarling at her as the Act One curtain descends. Now for Act Two. Well, there is no Act Two outlined in Meehan's papers, the Library for the Performing Arts, not a proud sponsor of Broadway Bound, but very supportive of us in other ways. Perhaps he never wrote one or Charnin read this version and said, Nope, this feels like us trying to repeat the success we had before pale imitations of Easy Street and Tomorrow, etc. Starting the show, reminding everyone of the brilliance they had once created. But an Annie doppelganger, that's interesting. Audiences love Annie and now there are two of them played by the same actress.

Plus, Annie might be losing her new family. There is a big heart here and one that could explore what is a family, which was a hot button topic for the moral majority at this time period in the 1980s. By December 1988, Charnin, Strouse, and Meehan began working on the new outline for Annie Two. They showed it to the producer of Annie, Lewis Allen, and he said it was better than the original. Backers auditions started and soon producers were capitalizing the $8 million needed to produce the show, a far cry from the $800,000 the original Annie had cost. The sequel would cost a pretty penny more and lo the person who called it a sequel. It was a continuation, Charnin said at every turn he got in front of a microphone or reporter.

I'm wondering if he got a dollar every time he said it because I think it got to a point where someone would go, morning, Martin, and he would say, it's a continuation. Whatever it was, on June 13th, 1989, with producer Lewis Allen by his side, Charnin announced at a press conference that Annie Two, Miss Hannigan's Revenge, would be coming to Broadway. And it was a continuation. Rehearsals would begin November 6th. Previews at the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C. on December 23rd, then the first preview at the Marriott Marquis on February 5th, and then opening on March 1st, 1990, right in time for Tony Noms.

[22:28] Robert W. Schneider: On October 12th, at Sardi's, Martin Charnin played to a room of 100 producers with checkbooks in hand, all brought there by Karen Walter Goodwin, president of Fifth Avenue Productions, and a fundraiser for the British producer Cameron McIntosh. She had signed on with Lewis Allen, Roger Berlinde, and Margot Lyon. Charnin started by saying, quote, Annie Two will be a full-bodied, full-blown, honest-to-God American musical comedy. And he then proceeded to do an abridged version of the show, playing everyone, Annie, Hannigan, Sandy, Babe Ruth, singing all the songs. This is a remembrance from Charles Strouse. I remember moneyed people lining up to invest after a first audition at my office. Perhaps another maxim of this tinseled world ought to be, the easier it is to acquire backing, the more likely the show will fail.

Charnin was proud of the high bar they held the sequel's creation to. Annie Two was an agonizing show to write. We went through three outlines and four drafts in seven years. Nobody wanted to just go back and do it again unless we felt we had something quite specific to contribute and had a way to make it fresh and interesting. There's only going to be a hint of it in the new show. It's like when you go to a wedding. Even if they chose to play an original piece of music, somewhere in your head you hear Mendelssohn. Similarly, I don't think it's possible to go into Annie Two and not, somewhere in your head, hear it tomorrow, even if you don't necessarily hear it on the stage.

[23:52] Robert W. Schneider: Now it needed a cast. Lots of great ladies had played Hannigan on Broadway. Alice Ghostly, Betty Hudden. Maybe a movie or TV star who knew the role was a home run would want to do it, like Carol Burnett or Bea Arthur or Rita Moreno. No, none of them could bring to it what the OG did. And would Dorothy Loudon want to do it? You mean take a break from doing Jerry's Girls at the Alhambra Dinner Theater? Of course! She was in! The Golden Team together again, plus a few other familiar faces, in addition to producer Lewis Allen, set designer David Mitchell, costume designer Theone V. Aldridge, Loudon, Raymond Thorne, the original FDR came, and even Sandy was going to do it, but he got arthritis and was replaced by Bo, the replacement for Sandy.

Age, man, age. It's not funny. For Warbucks, Reed Shelton was not around, but Harve Presnell, who played it countless times before and had one of the best baritone voices as heard in Molly Brown and Paint Your Wagon, he would jump in again, as would Lauren Mitchell as Grace Farrell. A new character would be invented, a love interest for Miss Hannigan. His name would be Lionel, and his casting would be a bit of a reunion for the team. Ronnie Graham was one of the most celebrated performers, writers, and lyricists of reviews, including the New Faces series, not to mention his contributions to TV shows like MASH, the Brady Bunch Variety Hour, and the Paul Lynde Halloween special. He was a writer on To Be or Not To Be with Mel Brooks and Thomas Meehan, and even played the stage manager of the troupe named Sondheim, who was told at one point, Sondheim, send in the clowns!

And he was also the priest in Spaceballs. He would tread the boards again for his good friends. Adding to this group would be the regal actor Marianne Seldes as Mrs. Marietta Christmas, Jerry McIntyre as Punjab, my favorite character, and future Oscar winner J.K. Simmons as Albert Einstein.

[25:49] Robert W. Schneider: Now, who would be Annie, the precocious little orphan? Well, a massive audition was held in September of 1989 at the John Golden Theater, where thousands and thousands of young girls came out to be the next Annie. Reporters, TV cameras, all of it were on hand to capture the potential new Annie. The notice said that she must be between 3'10 and 4'4, sing loudly and clearly, be able to act and tap, and not be afraid of dogs. They were separated from their parents to see how they function alone, and line up in front of a 4x4 yellow ribbon to see if they were being honest. After they sang a few bars of Tomorrow and were not that hot, Charnin would dismiss them with a thanks and an Annie 2 button.

What a great memento! One girl during her audition dropped to her knees during the number Tomorrow, like in the original, and Charnin screamed, Young lady! Miss! Did I tell you to sit down? Thirteen years ago I told someone to sit down. And sing it in the tempo as written, please. The few that made it would go on to the next round, perhaps ready to be Broadway's next Annie. Oh, those poor deceived little girls, because it was all a publicity stunt. The real Annies were being auditioned in private sessions, and that is where they found 11-year-old Danielle Findley of Missouri, who would be the next Annie. She was chosen because in final callbacks with Sandy, Charnin found himself looking more at her than the dog, and her face made the front cover of Life magazine.

That's how big a deal it was that Annie was coming back to Broadway. It made national news. She was also funny and spunky. When told she was a good singer, she said she wanted to be better than Streisand. Maybe, just maybe, Annie 2 would be the big fat American hit that would rejuvenate Broadway. And on November 6, 1989, at 890 Broadway, an excited cast of 36 crew and producers all gathered for the first time to be introduced to one another and to discuss with the press their excitement about Annie 2. Wouldn't it be great if we could just go back and be a fly on the wall in those conversations? Well, guess what? We can. Here is a recording from the first rehearsal of Annie 2.

[28:04] Robert W. Schneider: A very heartening moment. Charles and Tom will attest to the fact that the first time this show surfaced back in 1976 up at the Goodspeed Opera House, there was one lady who took a Polaroid.

[28:25] Charles Strouse: Which didn't come out.

[28:30] Robert W. Schneider: Which didn't come out. And we appreciate the coverage that we're getting a great deal. You guys are going to have to get used to it because I understand, and you do as well, that making a musical is a very private and arduous and occasionally torturous circumstance.

[28:56] Robert W. Schneider: But for the time being today, we are grateful to have all of this attention focused on us. And what we're going to do before we even begin is do a couple of setups. Again, you will have to put yourselves in my hands. I'll be putting some people together to make some shots. Don't question it. It doesn't mean anything and it means everything.

[29:30] Robert W. Schneider: But before we go any further, for those of you who have not...

[29:35] Robert W. Schneider: I think it's important that you know the other faces in this group.

[29:41] Robert W. Schneider: This is Tom Meehan, who wrote the book for Annie 1 and Annie 2.

[29:49] Robert W. Schneider: And this is Charles Strouse, who wrote the music.

[29:56] Robert W. Schneider: Now, this is the young lady who's going to be playing the role of Annie.

[30:01] Robert W. Schneider: If you didn't see Life Magazine, that's Danielle Findlay, who is wearing the 2 to distinguish her from the other children in the company.

[30:10] Robert W. Schneider: There she is in the pink.

[30:15] Robert W. Schneider: This is a treat. I never thought this was going to happen.

[30:18] Robert W. Schneider: Well, a couple of things I didn't think were going to happen.

[30:21] Robert W. Schneider: They are, however, going to happen.

[30:24] Robert W. Schneider: An extremely talented and interesting and friendly and wonderful lady has decided to be in our musical.

[30:36] Robert W. Schneider: And that's Marion Seldes, who has never done one before.

[30:43] Robert W. Schneider: I welcome all of you.

[30:44] Robert W. Schneider: And now I would like you to take a moment, take a deep breath and say hello to that nefarious pussycat who is coming back to recreate the role.

[31:01] Robert W. Schneider: And that's Dorothy Loudon.

[31:15] Dorothy Loudon: What do you think about approaching the role again?

[31:20] Dorothy Loudon: Oh, I got so identified with this role.

[31:25] Dorothy Loudon: I really created that woman, I feel.

[31:29] Dorothy Loudon: And so she's never left me.

[31:31] Dorothy Loudon: I've done a lot of things. It's been 12 years, 13 years really.

[31:35] Dorothy Loudon: We opened 13 years ago in '76 in Washington.

[31:39] Dorothy Loudon: And I think it never leaves you.

[31:41] Dorothy Loudon: I think it never leaves you.

[31:42] Dorothy Loudon: I think it's like playing tennis, you know, or riding a bike.

[31:45] Dorothy Loudon: But she's my favorite of all the women that I've done.

[31:50] Dorothy Loudon: She was mine to begin with, so I'm very protective of her, you know.

[31:54] Robert W. Schneider: Tell me, what was one memorable moment in all that time that you did the role of Miss Fanny Baker?

[32:00] Dorothy Loudon: I think one particular moment.

[32:01] Dorothy Loudon: Oh, I suppose when I caught my foot in the treadmill and broke all my toes.

[32:08] Dorothy Loudon: And we were scheduled to go to the White House that night and to show you what the priorities were.

[32:13] Dorothy Loudon: I went in a wheelchair and then they sent me to the emergency ward.

[32:16] Dorothy Loudon: I mean, it was supposed to be the other way around.

[32:18] Dorothy Loudon: But I remember that very, very vividly.

[32:22] Dorothy Loudon: I remember the excitement of the success of the show and how everybody needed it.

[32:29] Dorothy Loudon: Psychologically, they needed it.

[32:30] Dorothy Loudon: So it was just after Watergate.

[32:33] Dorothy Loudon: It was a great time, great time.

[32:37] Robert W. Schneider: Oh, absolutely.

[32:39] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah.

[32:40] Robert W. Schneider: Thanks very much.

[32:41] Robert W. Schneider: And they sat down to read aloud for the first time Annie 2: Miss Hannigan's Revenge.

[32:46] Robert W. Schneider: And one hundred and forty-five pages later, the read-through ended and the producers gave each other that look.

[32:53] Robert W. Schneider: That look of I think we're in trouble.

[32:57] Robert W. Schneider: Why was Hannigan hell-bent on killing Annie?

[33:00] Robert W. Schneider: Hannigan is sassy and ornery, not a murderer.

[33:03] Robert W. Schneider: And where were the orphans?

[33:04] Robert W. Schneider: Where was Annie?

[33:05] Robert W. Schneider: What had once been sweet and optimistic was now dark and angry.

[33:09] Robert W. Schneider: But Charnin assured everyone that the show had to be more sophisticated.

[33:13] Robert W. Schneider: It must have more appeal for adults to succeed.

[33:16] Robert W. Schneider: Sophisticated musicals.

[33:18] Robert W. Schneider: That's what Broadway wants.

[33:19] Robert W. Schneider: But that's also what they wanted in 1976 when Annie conquered the Sondheim pessimism that had pervaded Broadway.

[33:26] Robert W. Schneider: Meehan defended the script.

[33:28] Robert W. Schneider: I think it's a risky enterprise.

[33:31] Robert W. Schneider: We're certainly going to get a lot of people who say we're just trying to cash in.

[33:35] Robert W. Schneider: We're all very political, especially the song One Tough Town.

[33:39] Robert W. Schneider: To me, it's a very important song, even though the show is set in 1934.

[33:43] Robert W. Schneider: The song is really about New York now, which is one tough town.

[33:47] Robert W. Schneider: Ironically, that song will be cut before it even leaves the rehearsal room.

[33:51] Robert W. Schneider: But no matter, Annie 2, based on its optimism, could be the sweet dollop of joy that would have boosted that 1989-1990 season.

[33:59] Robert W. Schneider: Broadway was in a really bad spot in the late 1980s.

[34:02] Robert W. Schneider: A bad, bad spot.

[34:04] Robert W. Schneider: The British had dominated Times Square with its massive pop operas.

[34:07] Robert W. Schneider: Chances for people to sing the scenery on their way out.

[34:10] Robert W. Schneider: You know, that's what they were.

[34:11] Robert W. Schneider: The Tony Award winner for Best Musical in '89 was Jerome Robbins' Broadway, a dance review,

[34:17] Robert W. Schneider: which was ten times better than its original competition, including another review, Black and Blue, plus Star Mites.

[34:23] Robert W. Schneider: And I think largely New York might have been in there as well.

[34:25] Robert W. Schneider: Enough said.

[34:26] Robert W. Schneider: And Broadway needed something to balance out the wry cynicism of good shows like City of Angels and Grand Hotel,

[34:33] Robert W. Schneider: as well as something better constructed than The Prince of Central Park and A Change in the Air.

[34:38] Robert W. Schneider: It needed a good, old-fashioned, original musical comedy for all ages.

[34:44] Robert W. Schneider: Annie, too, could do that if it leaned on its original charms.

[34:48] Robert W. Schneider: Even before Thanksgiving, the box office had done $3 million in business, all wanting a warm return to Annie.

[34:55] Robert W. Schneider: But Charnin and team didn't want that.

[34:57] Robert W. Schneider: They wanted something sophisticated to show their intelligence.

[35:01] Robert W. Schneider: And when creators want to showcase their cleverness as opposed to serving the story, it just never ends well.

[35:07] Robert W. Schneider: But these creators were used to last-minute miracles, just like in the original Annie.

[35:12] Robert W. Schneider: They could iron out the kinks.

[35:14] Robert W. Schneider: The team headed down to the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C., where more trouble had awaited them.

[35:19] Robert W. Schneider: The loading of the scenery had taken longer than expected, and many of the costumes were late,

[35:24] Robert W. Schneider: so there was no full dress rehearsal before the first public performance.

[35:27] Robert W. Schneider: Plus, Ronnie Graham was having trouble learning his lines,

[35:30] Robert W. Schneider: and Dorothy Loudon kept going around saying to anyone who would listen that the show wasn't working,

[35:35] Robert W. Schneider: and was anyone going to fix this bomb, which didn't sit too well with Martin Charnin.

[35:40] Martin Charnin: Musicals are still excruciatingly difficult to do.

[35:44] Martin Charnin: They are still handmade, molecule by molecule, joke by joke, step by step.

[35:49] Martin Charnin: I have a feeling we'll take Washington by storm.

[35:52] Robert W. Schneider: Also, if anyone is wondering, it's not a sequel, but a continuation.

[35:56] Robert W. Schneider: He didn't say the last part, but I feel like he did, okay?

[35:58] Robert W. Schneider: December 22nd, 1989.

[36:01] Robert W. Schneider: A packed house filled with tons of children and their parents sat in eager anticipation for Annie 2: Miss Hannigan's Revenge.

[36:10] Martin Charnin: It's ready to go.

[36:12] Robert W. Schneider: The audience, of course, may ultimately tell me a whole other story.

[36:15] Robert W. Schneider: And they did.

[36:16] Robert W. Schneider: The curtain rose, and we were in prison, a woman's detention center,

[36:22] Robert W. Schneider: and the inmates are fighting when a prisoner from upstage shouts,

[36:25] Robert W. Schneider: All right, everybody, shut your traps and go back to sleep.

[36:28] Robert W. Schneider: And Loudon turned around.

[36:31] Robert W. Schneider: It was Miss Hannigan.

[36:33] Robert W. Schneider: One of the women, Patsy, gets up, throws her cigarette off to the side,

[36:38] Robert W. Schneider: it lands in a bag of laundry, and she says,

[36:41] Robert W. Schneider: You ain't got a snowball's chance in hell of getting back at that kid.

[36:47] Robert W. Schneider: Her old man, Warbucks, the richest guy in the world,

[36:50] Robert W. Schneider: you think you'd even get within a mile of her?

[36:54] Robert W. Schneider: Rochelle says, With Annie locked away in that mansion of Warbucks,

[36:57] Robert W. Schneider: how are you ever going to get your hands on her if you ever get out of here?

[37:01] Robert W. Schneider: Hannigan says, There's a knock, knock at the door, kid.

[37:07] Robert W. Schneider: It's the florist with an oar, kid.

[37:11] Robert W. Schneider: And Annie says, Let me have a whiff.

[37:15] Robert W. Schneider: She takes a sniff, and she's stiff.

[37:20] Robert W. Schneider: You're my quest, kid.

[37:22] Robert W. Schneider: You're my grail, kid.

[37:24] Robert W. Schneider: I'm the hammer.

[37:26] Robert W. Schneider: You're the man, kid.

[37:28] Robert W. Schneider: She'll regret the way she ran you up a tree.

[37:32] Robert W. Schneider: You ain't seen the last of me.

[37:36] Robert W. Schneider: And bang, she's a stiff?

[37:39] Robert W. Schneider: She's gonna kill Annie?

[37:41] Robert W. Schneider: What? You're gonna kill her?

[37:43] Robert W. Schneider: But before the audience can try to understand,

[37:46] Robert W. Schneider: the prison burns down, and Hannigan escapes,

[37:49] Robert W. Schneider: and the next scene takes us to Warbucks' office,

[37:51] Robert W. Schneider: beautifully designed by David Mitchell.

[37:53] Robert W. Schneider: Seriously, they're gorgeous if you can see these photos.

[37:56] Robert W. Schneider: Finally, page nine.

[37:58] Robert W. Schneider: Page nine, friends, page nine.

[38:00] Robert W. Schneider: Annie enters and sits quietly while everyone sings a song called 1934 about how bad the economy is.

[38:07] Robert W. Schneider: Finally, on page 15,

[38:10] Robert W. Schneider: 20 minutes into the show,

[38:13] Robert W. Schneider: Annie finally speaks,

[38:15] Robert W. Schneider: but not for long, because Annie is upstaged by Congresswoman Marietta Christmas

[38:21] Robert W. Schneider: from the United Mothers of America who demands Warbucks find a wife

[38:25] Robert W. Schneider: or Annie must be removed from his home.

[38:28] Robert W. Schneider: Finally, on page 23,

[38:31] Robert W. Schneider: Annie sings, and all it is is a short reprise of 1934.

[38:36] Robert W. Schneider: Take it away, Annie.

[38:38] Annie: Sleeping wizards ain't like something

[38:42] Annie: You don't know what to expect

[38:45] Annie: There you are, all calm and cozy

[38:49] Annie: And like that, your train gets wrecked

[38:53] Annie: Mommy?

[38:55] Annie: Mommy, make you eat things like squash

[39:01] Annie: Clean your room and wear your gala shoes

[39:07] Annie: Never had one, I don't need one

[39:11] Annie: Me and Daddy, that's enough

[39:14] Annie: Daddy gives me love and piggyback

[39:18] Annie: And all that other stuff

[39:21] Annie: Trouble really came through that door

[39:28] Annie: And Miss Hannigan is free now

[39:32] Annie: Probably coming after me now

[39:37] Annie: Oh, hooray for 1934!

[39:50] Robert W. Schneider: Then Miss Hannigan meets up with Lionel McCoy on a tugboat, this is Ronnie Graham,

[39:53] Robert W. Schneider: and in a very funny moment, they hatch a plan the audience can't hear,

[39:57] Robert W. Schneider: because this massive luxury liner keeps passing when they concoct their plan.

[40:04] Robert W. Schneider: And in Mitchell's set, a huge luxury liner passed, and their little tugboat would rock.

[40:08] Robert W. Schneider: I mean, it's really funny. It's so funny.

[40:11] Robert W. Schneider: So whatever the plan is, we discover it later on,

[40:14] Robert W. Schneider: but Lionel is going to get a job as a chauffeur in the Warbucks mansion to get closer to Annie,

[40:18] Robert W. Schneider: and Hennigan, to disguise herself,

[40:20] Robert W. Schneider: goes to the Brooklyn Academy of Beauty to get a makeover,

[40:23] Robert W. Schneider: so Warbucks and Annie don't recognize her.

[40:27] Robert W. Schneider: Who runs the Brooklyn Academy of Beauty?

[40:29] Robert W. Schneider: Well, his name is Maurice,

[40:31] Robert W. Schneider: and he has wonderful lines like,

[40:33] Robert W. Schneider: Are you men, or are you hairdressers?

[40:35] Robert W. Schneider: You think that's adult enough?

[40:37] Robert W. Schneider: There are countless goddams in this script,

[40:40] Robert W. Schneider: so kids, cover your ears.

[40:43] Robert W. Schneider: Now, Hennigan disguises herself as Charlotte O'Hara.

[40:47] Robert W. Schneider: She goes to Yankee Stadium to participate in a contest for finding Warbucks a wife.

[40:51] Robert W. Schneider: He picks Charlotte.

[40:55] Robert W. Schneider: Why? Grace was right there.

[40:57] Robert W. Schneider: And Grace and the Yankees, yes, the New York Yankees,

[40:59] Robert W. Schneider: and Grace Farrell sing a song called He Doesn't Know I'm Alive.

[41:03] Robert W. Schneider: Grace, speak up, girl.

[41:07] Robert W. Schneider: Grace, take this down.

[41:09] Robert W. Schneider: And, oh, you know.

[41:11] Robert W. Schneider: Grace, get this wheat picked up.

[41:13] Robert W. Schneider: Grace, fetch some ketchup.

[41:16] Robert W. Schneider: And, oh, you know.

[41:18] Robert W. Schneider: Grace, get me a wife.

[41:23] Grace: He doesn't know I'm alive.

[41:29] Grace: And if he knew,

[41:32] Grace: would it matter at all?

[41:36] Grace: And if it mattered at all,

[41:38] Grace: would it matter enough?

[41:41] Grace: And if it mattered enough,

[41:43] Grace: would he then look at me

[41:45] Grace: and see more than he sees,

[41:47] Grace: normally sees?

[41:50] Grace: I'm always there

[41:53] Grace: on the job.

[41:57] Grace: So is the moon

[42:00] Grace: and the 4th of July.

[42:03] Grace: But once in a while,

[42:05] Grace: someone says,

[42:06] Grace: what a wonderful moon.

[42:08] Grace: Even the moon needs to know

[42:10] Grace: that you've noticed its glow

[42:12] Grace: and consider it more,

[42:14] Grace: more than just cheese.

[42:18] Grace: How to stay rich, he knows.

[42:20] Grace: Which wine is which, he knows.

[42:21] Grace: How to wear clothes, he knows.

[42:23] Grace: Clothes, he knows.

[42:26] Grace: How to sell short, he knows.

[42:28] Grace: Whom to support, he knows.

[42:29] Grace: Whom to oppose, he knows.

[42:31] Grace: Those, he knows.

[42:34] Grace: But he doesn't know

[42:37] Grace: I'm alive.

[42:40] Grace: Deaf, dumb, and blind

[42:43] Grace: to the woman I am.

[42:46] Grace: He doesn't know what a treat

[42:48] Grace: he is missing in me.

[42:51] Grace: He doesn't see the complete life

[42:54] Grace: together I see.

[42:58] Grace: He doesn't know just how patient

[43:02] Grace: a woman can be.

[43:10] Grace: He doesn't know.

[43:13] Grace: He doesn't know.

[43:16] Grace: He doesn't know.

[43:27] Robert W. Schneider: So Charlotte and Lionel go back to the wharf and they run into, remember, Spit and Kate McGuire.

[43:32] Robert W. Schneider: And Kate is the spitting image of Annie.

[43:36] Robert W. Schneider: Another plan.

[43:38] Robert W. Schneider: Yes, yes, yes.

[43:40] Robert W. Schneider: They could bump off the original Annie, replace her with this Annie,

[43:42] Robert W. Schneider: and then Hannigan is on Easy Street.

[43:47] Robert W. Schneider: But first, Dorothy has to sing.

[43:50] Dorothy Loudon: What do you keep staring at me for?

[43:54] Dorothy Loudon: Why don't you stick your eyeballs back in your fat head?

[43:57] Dorothy Loudon: I know you.

[43:58] Dorothy Loudon: No, no, no.

[44:00] Dorothy Loudon: I know you.

[44:02] Dorothy Loudon: You, there's something about you hard to place.

[44:04] Dorothy Loudon: It's familiar, that funny hair,

[44:09] Dorothy Loudon: that face, how you move,

[44:12] Dorothy Loudon: and yeah, you got eyes of blue.

[44:14] Dorothy Loudon: Oh, God, you could be Annie too.

[44:17] Dorothy Loudon: You're just about the right size.

[44:18] Dorothy Loudon: Wait, wait, hold it right there.

[44:20] Dorothy Loudon: Don't run.

[44:52] ♪ Musical number: "Annie 2" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[46:25] Robert W. Schneider: This is the last song of Act 1, friends, and in the original script, Annie, little orphan Annie, of Annie 2, has 27 lines. 27 lines only. And a lot of these lines are like, "Aw, daddy." So, sorry, Annie. Now, those who came back for Act 2 got treated to a political dialogue between Annie and President Franklin Delano Roosevelt as Annie shows him all the poor people still suffering, like an agitprop Clifford Odette's play. She says, "All is hopeless," to which FDR says, "Not at all," and Annie can't lose hope because... "Don't you understand, Annie? When you smile, I smile. Your smile makes my smile. So when I'm low, nowhere to go, nothing is clearer. I see a grin, gotta give in. We're like a mirror."

When you're gone, me too. This is the tomorrow carbon copy hit that everybody wanted. So now, everyone treks out to Coney Island like the first draft, and Kate and Annie are switched. Annie is literally tied up, gagged, and put into a gunny sack as they tell Annie they're going to drown her. How are you feeling, kids? Alone, Annie sings. A car and two kids, they're in line. A sort of hopeless wake-up. I'm all alone, just like I used to be. I guess that all I want to see is my very dark side. And I find myself so complicated. Then, Hamigan, Charlotte O'Hara, dressed in furs at Warbucks' big penthouse, sips champagne and sings. "Tell the Maharaja that tonight ain't good. But drop by any time you're in the neighborhood."

Someone bring my tray. "Isn't this the way to go? Think I'll gut the mansion. God, it's such a mess. Mrs. Astor's party? Tell her no. Wait, yes. Cancel Saint-Tropez. Isn't this the way to go?" On my left, FDR. Next to him, some old czar eating off my flowered spode. Dinner's done. I'm a wreck. Good night, Chiang. Chiang Kai-shek. Everybody hit the road. Wait. I want to party. Leave the light bulbs on. Scoop the good beluga. Pour the perignon. Oh, Mama wants to play. Now, at this point, Grace figures out the plot and brings both Annie's to Warbucks. But which is which? Only one way to find out. We have her call Sandy. Sandy goes to Annie. Everyone is carted off to jail except Warbucks and Grace who get married by Mayor LaGuardia with FDR as a witness.

Three and a half hours later from that opening, the curtain fell and those who were there said it was like the audience from the producers. Charnin, the optimist, said, "30 seconds into the show we knew that something on the order of the Exxon Valdez had occurred." Making Hannigan the central focus makes no sense whatsoever and as brilliant as Dorothy Loudon was she's what I like to call a five-minute actor. After five minutes, you kind of want to move on. Which is why she excelled in ensemble pieces like Annie and Noises Off. Make her the lead in Ballroom or her sitcom. It just doesn't work. But kids wanted the red dress and not Annie as Joe Worker whenever she was allowed to be on the stage.

I mean the parallels between the depression and Reaganomics just went over the head of the five-year-olds wondering what crime they committed to be punished by watching this show. Charnin said, "Up until that first preview, we and I'm speaking for Charles and Tom and myself and all the producers were putting on a show that was for our intellect and our cynicism and our supposed sophistication. In that preview, there were 700 children in the audience who could not care less about this un-Annie Annie who came to re-experience or to experience for the first time this mythological thing that ran for decades in the comic strip. And by virtue of the fact that 700 kids were not having a wonderful time the 700 sets of parents who came to see their kids have a wonderful time were not having a wonderful time and there were no real warnings along the way.

No one was listening like composer Charles Strauss who said, "I did not want to do this show as I did not want to do the first one. I didn't want this to be a piece that was just an expression of greed. It's not a musical in which characters discuss their psychological underpinnings and I feel as though a lot of people are going to ask, 'Where have you been for the last 45 years?' We had a free ride in two ways on Annie. I think it was a good show but we had 10 weeks to work on it and then at the Goodspeed Opera House the even bigger free ride was that it was the end of the Watergate era. The week we opened there was an editorial in a New Mexico newspaper that said, 'Last night on Broadway a jaded New York audience leaped to its feet when a little girl instead of taking off her clothes and saying four letter words said, 'I love you.'

I believe we were helped very much by the feeling that people all over the country wanted to say that it's a new time. I don't know whether that's in the air now. It's January 5th to January 4th as the team frantically begins to rewrite an Annie with no Annie. And of course we're traveled to New York City by those who took special glee in watching the show fail. A shout in Freud that if it wasn't their show tanking they were happy. Hannigan in this new version no longer wanted to kill Annie just kidnap and hide her until she got the dough. They flipped the first two scenes so the musical now opened with Warbucks and Annie followed by Hannigan on the tugboat. Never going to jail but being sent to Argentina by Warbucks.

But she jumped ship, swam back and was rescued now by her friend, not lover, Lionel. They even gave Annie a great new song called Changes. And this is one of Strauss' favorite compositions for it's looking at maturing from girl to a woman in a very beautiful musical way. So now with Changes audiences knew immediately what Annie wanted. "You're going to have a mother. Isn't that grand?"

[57:55] ♪ Musical number: "Changes" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[59:01] Robert W. Schneider: But you go on.

[59:09] ♪ Musical number: "You Go On" — performed by the cast ♪

[1:07:56] Robert W. Schneider: Never forget that you are talking to the man who wrote "Tomorrow." The sun will come out tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar. There's only so much you can do. This musical has not found its character yet. You're limited by the hours of rehearsal, and you're limited by how many brain cells you can produce that can come up with ideas.

[1:08:19] Robert W. Schneider: We can get creamed or we can get constructive reviews. I just want to be allowed not to act out of desperation.

[1:08:49] Robert W. Schneider: Meehan seemed to know what Nichols was saying. Meehan. We were in a bit of a bind because the stakes in Annie 2 are different. Annie's adventure in Annie 1 is much more a question of life and death. We were beginning to invest the new show with those aspects. At the same time, we were attending to the diabolical aspects of Miss Hannigan.

[1:09:11] Robert W. Schneider: There are honest truths in the story. But perhaps we were telling too many stories. In a way, we were serving two masters, Annie and Miss Hannigan. Plus, they were trying to mirror the success of the original too much, which is what they were trying to avoid.

[1:09:27] Robert W. Schneider: 1934 set the scene in much the way we'd like to thank you, and "A New Deal for Christmas" did in the original. The salute to Coney Island was the new version's variation of NYC. Miss Hannigan's "I Could Get Used to This" was similar to Annie's "I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here." And "When You Smile" was a "Tomorrow" wannabe. While the show toiled away at the Kennedy Center, the producers held a private meeting to review the situation, and it wasn't good.

[1:09:53] Robert W. Schneider: The advance was only $3.7 million, which may sound like a lot, but paled beside the $19 million for "The Phantom of the Opera," and that translated into perhaps maybe seven weeks of tickets. Producer Roger Berlin remembered, and that first night in Washington, we looked at each other and we thought, "What is this? It was like taking a miniature and blowing it up, and every flaw was so apparent."

[1:10:22] Robert W. Schneider: The show is getting better rapidly. We could have come into New York with an extended preview period if I didn't think the show could get dramatically better. That might be what we would have done. But I still think this can turn into a mega hit, and I want to give it a chance to do that.

[1:10:39] Robert W. Schneider: The producers sat down with the creative and asked if they could get Annie 2 in shape by the Broadway deadline. Meehan and Charnin said yes, but Strouse, exhausted and contracted to do "Nick and Nora," said no.

[1:10:52] Robert W. Schneider: I told the producers that I felt myself not knowing what I wanted to do. I said I just did not understand the show. The thing that attracted everybody about Annie 2 originally was that we thought it was self-mocking and mocking about the original Annie. There was a kind of zaniness about it, like the Marx Brothers. We had gone through the sweetness and light thing about Annie, and now we were really sophisticated.

[1:11:13] Robert W. Schneider: The fact is, though, that when it was put on, instead of everybody laughing at ourselves, they found it mean-spirited. We had forgotten how much of a legend the original show had become. In hindsight, maybe he wanted to stay on Annie 2. While Strouse was lukewarm, Meehan knew how to fix the show.

[1:11:30] Robert W. Schneider: I realize now that it was the biggest mistake to call it "Miss Hannigan's Revenge" and focus on adults. The sense of disappointment here, when the little girls in their velvet dresses came to see Annie and didn't see Annie, was unbelievable. We wanted to do a whole new show. I think part of it was the feeling among all of us that maybe we were looked down upon by certain people in the theater, that in Annie we'd done something just about orphans and dogs, and it was just for the money, and it was just for a child audience. It wasn't a serious show. So we said, we can write a real grown-up show, too.

[1:12:06] Robert W. Schneider: And that's what we did, and we were really stupid. It was as if we had taken everyone's favorite orphan and killed her in D.C. I felt awful. People got their kids all dressed up for a Christmas treat, and they were so disappointed.

[1:12:20] Robert W. Schneider: So Berlin came up with an idea, one that was unprecedented in Broadway history. What if they had postponed Annie 2 but used the current cast to do a revival, and then the creators could work on Annie 2 without a deadline looming, and the producers wouldn't lose a lot of money?

[1:12:37] Robert W. Schneider: Now, according to him, and actually incorrectly, he said 70% of the Annie 2 sets and 90% of the Annie 2 costumes could be repurposed for Annie 1. Most of the cast had played Annie somewhere in their life. They would know this. The advance sale of approximately $3.8 million would normally be returned, but it's conceivable in this case that some of it would be applied to the revival.

[1:12:59] Robert W. Schneider: So on January 15, 1990, the statement came that Annie 2 would not be coming to Broadway in 1990, but a revival of Annie 1 would. Everyone was enthusiastic, it seemed. Berlin said, when an out-of-town show is not quite right, a producer is faced with two choices. You can close it or you can bring it in. The first instance doesn't happen very often because you end up falling in love with the show and you don't want to be a loser. The second choice accounts for most of Broadway's major disasters.

[1:13:26] Robert W. Schneider: What we have here is a unique opportunity because of the Annie revival of saving the entire production and working on Annie 2 until it's ready. Everybody was on board on January 15 with this plan, except Dorothy Loudon. Not only was she sick and had missed five shows, she went on the record the next day to the press to say there was no way in hell she was coming to Broadway to do an Annie revival. Now, Charnin was so pissed, he told her she was forbidden.

[1:13:56] Robert W. Schneider: A few hours after Loudon's statement, Berlin actually runs the numbers and realizes nothing from Annie 2 will work for Annie 1, and so they announce that an Annie revival will not be happening, and Annie 2 will close on the road on January 20, 1990, after 36 performances in Washington, D.C. The cast received t-shirts with Annie on it, but she had her arm in a sling, a black eye, and sat atop a tagline reading, "We'll be back." To make matters worse, the saga of Annie 2 had become international news, and Johnny Carson, the talk show host that everyone watched, quipped, "Well, we're in the 1990s. Boy, it's off to a good start for me financially. I checked my investments. I put all my money into AT&T, Bloomingdale's, and Annie 2."

Yes, the flop of Annie 2 was international news. What is ironic is that Annie is a musical about optimism, and these creators are the embodiment of that. They could have walked away, but they did not, and a week before the show closed in D.C., the writers had convinced the Goodspeed Opera House, the original home to Annie, to do a bare-bones production at Goodspeed's Norma Terrace Theatre in May of 1990, with Charnin again directing. This meant a minimal bare-bones production, with sets of wooden platforms, a three-man band instead of a large orchestra, salary cuts for actors, and costumes salvaged from the many outfits designed for Annie 2. It would cost a reported $400,000 for a nearly three-month run, with expenses covered by ticket sales, Goodspeed, and the show's original producers.

[1:15:31] Robert W. Schneider: The writers told The Powers That Be that they now knew what needed to be done. Strouse said the last week in Washington was so informative, but they had no place else to go to implement the changes they wanted. Charnin knew how to fix the tone and the story. When Goodspeed asked what had gone wrong, Meehan responded with, "We told a fairy tale from the witch's point of view." With all these movies today that put comic book villains front and center, perhaps this team was actually ahead of its time. From May 7th to July 8th, 1990, the new version, with only two songs and 10% of the D.C. dialogue, ran to enthusiastic audiences. Gone were Findley, Mitchell, Graham, and Loudon. Even Bo was demoted and replaced by Chelsea.

Strouse had lost count of the number of melodies he had written, and Charnin knew he had written 61 new sets of lyrics. If nothing else, Charnin had a great sense of humor and often wore a t-shirt with Annie's picture on it and the tagline, "Not Since Lazarus."

[1:16:29] Robert W. Schneider: Now, the new plot for Goodspeed. Seldes was now Commissioner Margaret Stark, who would try to put her sister, Fran Riley, into Warbuck's bed. Grace leaves Warbuck's out of frustration and Annie runs away thinking it was all her fault, but she learns some lessons along the way. At home, the orphans realize what Riley is up to and they reveal all. Two-time Tony winner Helen Gallagher was going to be Hannigan, but during the run, Hannigan was written out to really give Annie a fresh start, sending Miss Hannigan off to Bolivia, and Helen Gallagher became Fran Riley and Lauren Gaffney took on the role of Annie. Harv Presnell and Raymond Throne stuck around to be Daddy Warbuck's in FDR.

[1:17:14] Robert W. Schneider: Oh, speaking of Gaffney, you might wonder, where was Danielle Finlay? The author said not only did audiences not respond to her, she seemed so unchildlike, she sang too well, she didn't have any vulnerability. That's an actual quote from Meehan. Oh, you're too hard, kid. Wow. Our optimistic producers saw it and knew it could get to Broadway. Just retitle it. Let's call it Annie Warbuck's, as Meehan observed. In Washington, whenever that little red dress was offstage, and it was frequently offstage, nobody was interested. You could feel the lack of interest from the audience. The writers instituted talkbacks with the audiences, with Gaffney often on Martin Charnin's lap with him quipping, "my protection, so you can't throw things at me."

Honestly, if I were him, I would have thrown her as a weapon if it got really bad, but that's just me. I'm not a brave man. I hate talkbacks. I think they're torture. Torture. But in the talkbacks, the audience asked good questions, like, what happened to the evil Miss Hannigan? Would a powerhouse like Daddy Warbuck's concede without a fight? Where was the now-missing Punjab in the asp? That would be my question.

[1:18:24] Robert W. Schneider: In February and March of 1991, the creatives gathered for a backers' audition and told the group that Annie Warbuck's would open on Broadway on April 21, 1993, at the Neil Simon Theatre, which had been the Alvin, home to the original Annie, and the potential backers took their checkbooks and went home. There was the aura of failure surrounding it that many thought would be insurmountable. The Berlin-Lewis-Goodwin-Lyon partnership was dissolved and the rights to the show reverted back to the creative team. Now, these writers could have packed up their toys and gone home, admitting that perhaps a sequel to Annie was not the best idea, but they didn't. But the optimism which pervaded the original Annie still pervaded this team, with Charnin leading the charge.

It would go to the Marriott Lincolnshire in Illinois first, and on February 5, 1992, after three weeks of rehearsals and rewrites, Annie Warbuck's opens the season in Lincolnshire to good reviews and runs for nine weeks. Variety said with some serious trimming, Annie Warbuck's should finally bring the redhead back to Broadway. It was then picked up by the Drury Lane Theatre near Chicago, where it underwent three more weeks of rewriting before a seven-week run.

[1:19:31] Robert W. Schneider: Then a goldmine idea, one that might have saved Annie 2, originally, according to Lewis Allen. Allen thought if the show had gone to just one more city between D.C. and Broadway, it would have given everyone the appropriate time to fix the show. Well, Lewis said, how about five cities instead of one? In March of 1992, a consortium of five theatres in Houston, Seattle, San Bernardino, California, San Diego, and Los Angeles finished working out a plan to share the costs of a tour for Annie Warbuck's. The great reviews and strong business led once again to optimism, and on October 30, 1992, the trades announced that Annie Warbuck's is going to open on March 18, 1993, at the Neil Simon Theatre. Annie, as you know by now, sang about how the only constant is change.

Well, Annie, you not coming back to Broadway also seems to be constant because producer Karen Goodwin announced only two months later that a key investor, who she refused to name, pulled out, taking $750,000 with them. She shut down construction on the sets and postponed the opening until April 21, 1993, the same day the original Annie opened in 1977. To keep hope alive, they even had a fake audition for Orphans in January of 1993, while Charnin and the team tried to gather investors to bring this show in.

[1:21:02] Robert W. Schneider: On January 25, a chamber version of Annie Warbuck's for theatre party agents was presented at the Virginia Theatre, now the August Wilson, in New York. In his opening remarks to the audience at the Virginia, Mr. Charnin noted the auspicious signs, like when the original Annie opened, there was also a Stephen Sondheim revival starring a British actor, a revival of Anna Christie, a new Democratic president from the South whose last name began with the letter C, all very good omens, and… nothing. No, no, no bite. A film producer had promised to swoop in and save them, and then he backed out. Finally, February 19, 1993, with the show more than $1 million short of its $5.5 million capitalization, Ms. Goodwin announced that Annie Warbuck's will not open on Broadway in 1993, and she is stepping aside as the producer.

It's Charnin. "We are moving in the direction of having it happen at some point in the future. It's not ended. It is postponed. You are talking to someone who wrote the most optimistic anthem ever heard on the Broadway stage. Tomorrow is indeed only a day away."

[1:21:51] Robert W. Schneider: Tomorrow finally came true on August 9, 1993, not at the Neil Simon, which was now getting ready for a Dutch musical version of Cyrano, but at the New Variety Arts Theatre in New York's East Side. Annie Warbuck's moved on in, with Presnell still being Warbuck's future full-house cast member Catherine Zaremba as Annie, Arlene Robertson as Commissioner Doyle, and Broadway veteran Donna McKechnie as Sheila Kelly, a notorious black widow who was in cahoots with Doyle. The off-Broadway production retained four songs, including A Younger Man, When You Smile, Tenement Lullaby, I Got Me, and Changes. The tagline, ironically, tomorrow can come true.

[1:22:32] Robert W. Schneider: The reviews, not shockingly, were mixed. Notoriously prickly, John Simon said, "You could do a lot worse. You could, for example, see Tommy." And Jan Stewart in New York Newsday reported that the choreography for The Little Orphan Girls forced them to shake their fannies cooch-dancer-style one too many times, and said if it were boys doing that, the musical would no doubt have been forced to close in previews on indecency charges. The most accurate review in all of this, and one that sums up the misguided vision of its creators and what the theater lost while they tried to prove a sequel could work, was Variety's Jeremy Gerard, who said he was happy the show opened, "because now the musical creators could finally get on with their lives, for which we can all be grateful."

[1:23:19] Robert W. Schneider: So what happened to Annie Warbucks? Well, it was recorded, and then became a staple of schools and community theaters who wanted the popular Annie brand, but not to produce Annie again. Sony bought the movie rights, but the film was never made. So what went wrong? Hindsight is 20-20, and there were tons of opinions as to why Annie 2, Miss Hannigan's Revenge, didn't work. Sequels rarely work in musicals. Divorce Me, Darling. The Best Little Whorehouse Goes Public. Love Never Dies. Not so much. Only Falsetto Land, which became Falsetto's work because William Finn felt there was more to tell in that story. These writers didn't have anything they wanted to tell at the moment. No compelling need for us to revisit these characters, except it might be as successful as the first one.

There was really no guiding principle except to show that they were more than optimism and sunny dispositions. They could be political, cynical, and dark. Instead of writing a new musical that could show that, they opted to shoehorn that into their pre-existing property. And with all the Monday morning quarterbacking about this musical from critics, audiences, insiders, geeks, scholars, queens eating their omelets at Westway Diner, of which I'm one, the most accurate reason why Annie 2 did not work was articulated the best by one of its creators, Thomas Meehan, who said, with the simplicity of a book writer who knows his word count must be brief, "We wrote the wrong show."

[1:24:37] Robert W. Schneider: Why did Charnin want this show to happen so much, even when the writing was on the wall? The answer, ironically, lay with a book series called Best Plays. This was an annual publication that was an almanac for theater seasons. Charnin said this. "I didn't want to be in the wrap-up of the season. It's only a musical that closed out of town. A small life is better than a death." Martin Charnin and Thomas Meehan were two people that were actually very important to me, so I want to make sure that they get the credit that they deserve. Thomas Meehan, I think, is probably one of the greatest book writers, if not the greatest book writer who ever lived when it comes to musical theater construction. And the fact that he had poured so much of his heart and soul into this to try to make it work, I think, is something that should be acknowledged.

[1:25:22] Robert W. Schneider: Martin Charnin also is a person that I don't think gets the credit that they deserve because they are a fantastic lyricist who just does not get appreciated the way that they should when you look at what Martin had created over the years. In addition to the stuff for Annie and Annie Too, there was this unyielding optimism about him that was present in all of his works. And no matter how much musical theater and New York audiences or critics could be snarky towards him, he, like Annie, always had this optimism about him. And one of the things I really loved about Martin was watching someone who put the audience's needs above his own. And sometimes it was there from the get-go with the original Annie.

Sometimes he had to rediscover that power that he had, like on Annie Too. But he is a person that I think deserves a lot more credit than they actually get. And I wish that he was here still so we could let him know in person. He was a wonderful, wonderful human being.

[1:26:19] Robert W. Schneider: And also, nobody worked better with children than Martin as a director. If you ever got the chance to watch him at work with any of the kids, he treated the kids just like he would treat the adults. He held them all to a very, very high standard, but did so with kindness and with generosity.

[1:26:36] Robert W. Schneider: Now, Annie is an adorable little girl that is loved and beloved and everybody wants what's best for her. Now, we're going to be looking at a totally different type of girl. A girl that is also just as well-known as Annie and also somebody, when you look at the source material that she is coming from, might make you go, does this really sing? Meehan and Strauss and Charnin proved that, yes, little orphan Annie could sing. But could Alan J. Lerner prove that Lolita could sing or should sing? The story of Lolita, My Love, the musical, next time on Broadway Bound. Bye-bye.

[1:27:22] Robert W. Schneider: Hi, friends. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Broadway Bound, the musicals that never came to Broadway. Just a reminder that it takes a lot of research and assistance to get these episodes produced, and any financial assistance is always appreciated. If you like what we are doing, please head over to robwschneider.com, that's R-O-B-W-S-C-H-N-E-I-D-E-R.com, click the tab that says AMTA, that stands for the American Musical Theater Archives, and make a tax-deductible donation to keep shows like this one on the air. Oh my gosh, I sound so much like PBS right now. I'm so sorry. And sadly, I can't even send you a tote bag, but I can wave energetically if I see you on the street.

And isn't that worth the price of a donation alone? Actually, donate to PBS, that way they can send you a tote bag, you can put it over your head so nobody sees me waving at you if you're really ashamed and embarrassed of my vociferous energy. Once again, robwschneider.com, click AMTA, make a tax-deductible donation, and I will be forever grateful.