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Have you ever been so excited to do

something you love

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that you could hardly wait to begin?

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That's how I sometimes felt before

walking on to stage or stepping in

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front of the camera.

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Not because I knew I was going to be

brilliant.

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Believe me, there were plenty of

occasions when brilliance was not on

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the schedule, but because I was about

to do something I absolutely loved.

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And then something interesting

happened.

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Once the scene began, that excitement

seemed to disappear.

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Or

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perhaps it didn't disappear.

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Perhaps it became something else.

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I stopped thinking about my choices.

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I stopped thinking about myself.

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I became involved in what was happening

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and curious about how I was affecting

the other people around me.

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And now, years later, sitting on the

other side of the audition table, I

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sometimes recognize that same quality

in another actor,

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something alive,

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something engaging, something that

makes me want to keep watching.

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So what is that?

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Can we learn it?

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Can we lose it?

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And perhaps most importantly, can we

rediscover it?

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Today we're talking about the joy of

performance.

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Thank you.

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I want to begin today with a

confession.

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I'm not entirely sure I can explain the

quality we're going to be discussing

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today.

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And that's a slightly uncomfortable

admission for somebody who makes a

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living explaining things to actors.

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But I know I've experienced it.

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I know I've witnessed it

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it's a particular kind of creative

energy that seems to make an actor come alive,

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not bigger, not louder, not necessarily

more emotional,

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just alive.

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And I think it's worth exploring

because somewhere between learning our

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craft and trying to build a career,

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we can sometimes forget the pleasure of

actually doing the work.

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Welcome to casting actress cast.

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I'm Jeff driesbach, casting director,

teacher, author, former actor and

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somebody who still gets excited

watching actors discover something

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wonderful in a scene.

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And if you're just joining us here at

the studio for the first time, welcome.

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And if you've been listening for a

while, thank you for coming back.

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You can find everything we're doing at

casting actors cast dot com.

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And that's where you'll find the

podcast, information about my book,

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booked it, the actor's play book for

getting cast, and my online course.

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Next level auditions prepare smarter,

perform, better, book more.

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And while you're visiting, be sure to

fill out that form that says, jump into

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the talent pool.

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You'll receive access to some free

resources, including my voice over book

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and video, along with casting

directors, what they don't tell you.

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Ok, now let's talk about something that

may not be a technique at all,

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and yet

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I believe it can influence almost

everything

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that we do as performers.

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The excitement that happens, I think,

before the work.

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And when I think back on my ears as an

actor, I remember something that I

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didn't always appreciate at the time.

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I loved the anticipation of performing.

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There was an excitement before the work

began.

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Sometimes it happened backstage,

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sometimes it happened on the film set.

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Sometimes it happened just before an

audition.

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I knew I was about to enter a world

that required my imagination, my

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attention and my willingness to

participate.

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And I loved that.

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Now I'm not suggesting, I was always

relaxed

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far from it.

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I experienced nerves, I experienced

uncertainty.

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I experienced those wonderful moments

when you suddenly wonder whether you actually

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remember any of your lines.

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But underneath those concerns,

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there was something else,

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eagerness,

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a feeling that something interesting

was about to happen.

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And here's what I find fascinating.

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Once the performance began, I wasn't

necessarily aware of that excitement

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any more.

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I became involved.

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The script took over,

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the relationship became important,

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the circumstances became immediate.

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And my attention drifted away from

myself,

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sometimes afterward.

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I couldn't even remember exactly what

choices I had made,

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not because I hadn't prepared,

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but because I wasn't consciously

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supervising every moment of the

performance

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I was participating.

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And I was curious, curious about the

other actors,

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curious about what was happening,

curious about how my behaviour was

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affecting the people around me.

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Looking back,

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I wonder whether that anticipation was

part of what allowed me to become so engaged,

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not because excitement guarantees a

good performance, it certainly doesn't,

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but because my attention was directed

towards something I wanted to experience,

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rather than something I was afraid of

getting wrong.

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That's a distinction I've come to

appreciate.

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Now when we use the word energy, I want

to be very careful, because actors

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sometimes hear that

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they hear that word, and then they think

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it means doing more,

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you know, more movement, more emotion,

more intensity, more personality.

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And that's not what I'm talking about.

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An actor can be completely still

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and passes tremendous

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creative energy.

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An actor can whisper and command our

attention.

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An actor can play someone who is

exhausted,

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frightened, grieving, or emotionally

withdrawn, and still seem completely

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alive within the circumstances.

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The energy I'm describing isn't

necessarily visible as excitement,

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it's visible as engagement.

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Something seems to be happening inside

the actor.

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They're not simply delivering a

prepared interpretation.

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They are experiencing the consequences

of what's happening around them.

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And that brings me to something

important.

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The joy isn't necessarily

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in the character

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it's, in the actor's relationship

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to performing.

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A character may be experiencing

terrible sadness,

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but the actor can still be experiencing

the creative fulfillment of telling

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that story

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truthfully.

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The actor isn't enjoying the

character's suffering.

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They're engaged in the artistic process.

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And that engagement can be

extraordinarily

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powerful.

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So it will move this to the other side

of the audition table.

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Now into casting, because this is where

my perspective change going from being

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an actor.

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And now as a casting director, I have

watched ah thousands of auditions I

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have.

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And I've seen actors with extraordinary

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training,

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actors who are beautifully prepared,

actors who understand the script,

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actors who make intelligent choices,

actors who know exactly what they're doing.

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But occasionally

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an actor comes into the room and

something feeling feels different.

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It might not even be coming into the

room.

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It could be even on a self tape.

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There's a quality of attention

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that draws me in

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they're listening, they're responding,

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they're allowing themselves to be

affected.

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And perhaps most importantly, they seem

genuinely interested in what's happening,

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not interested in showing me how

talented they are.

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Interested in the scene,

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interested in the other person,

interested in discovering what happens next.

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Now I can't tell you exactly what that

actor is feeling internally.

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I don't know whether they are excited.

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I don't know whether they're nervous.

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I don't know whether they're

experiencing the same kind of pleasure

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I remember for my acting days, and I

wouldn't presume to know.

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But I can observe the behavior,

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I can see the responsiveness, I can see

the specificity.

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I can see the concentration.

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And sometimes I can see a performance

that feels as though it's happening for

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the first time.

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Boy,

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that's a wonderful thing to witness.

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And it raises an interesting question.

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What are we usually responding to?

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Perhaps it's not the actor's enthusiasm.

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Perhaps it's the consequences of their

engagement.

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There's a distinction I want to make.

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That, I think, is particularly

important for auditions.

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The difference between performing and

demonstrating.

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Some actors enter an audition feeling

they have to prove something.

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They want to prove, they're talented,

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they want to prove, they're prepared,

they want to prove.

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They understand the character,

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they want to prove, they can deliver

the emotional demands of the scene.

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And I understand that impulse.

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After all, an audition is an evaluation.

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Somebody is making a decision.

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But there's a problem.

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When proving your ability becomes more

important than experiencing the circumstances,

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the actor begins demonstrating the

work.

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Instead of doing the work,

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they show us the anger.

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They show us the grief.

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They show us the vulnerability

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they show us the preparation.

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And sometimes what we see is a very

polished presentation of acting,

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but we're not necessarily experiencing

the scene.

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Now consider an actor who has done the

same preparation,

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but approaches the audition

differently.

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Instead of thinking, I need to show

them how well I can play this character.

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The actor becomes interested in what

the character needs from the other

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character in the scene.

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For example,

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their attention shifts.

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They're not demonstrating anger,

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they're trying to change someone's mind.

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They're not demonstrating sadness.

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They're trying to hold on to a

relationship.

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They're not demonstrating fear.

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They're trying to protect something

important.

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And suddenly behavior becomes

purposeful.

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The actor is doing something

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and not showing something.

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They're not showing us their work.

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They're doing their work.

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That distinction can change the entire

experience.

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Let's talk about concentration,

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because I think it's

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central to what we're exploring to day.

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When actors hear the word

concentration, they sometimes imagine

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intense mental effort, a kind of forced

focus.

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But I'm interested in a different kind

of concentration,

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the concentration that happens when you

are genuinely fascinated by something.

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Think about a conversation you've had

when you were completely absorbed.

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You weren't thinking about how you

looked right?

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You weren't planning

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every response, you weren't evaluating

your conversational technique.

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You were interested,

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you were listening,

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you were responding,

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and time seemed to move differently.

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Now imagine bringing that quality of

attention into a scene, not because

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you're trying to achieve a special

psychological state, but because the circumstances

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matter to you.

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The other person matters to you.

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What happens next matters to you.

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That's where I think creative

engagement becomes especially powerful.

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And here's something else.

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When you're genuinely interested in the

other person,

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your behavior becomes less predictable

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because your responding to something

that's happening now,

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not something reproducing something you

decided yesterday.

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Now that doesn't mean you abandon

preparation.

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It means preparation has given you the

freedom

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to participate.

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Now there's a word I think we sometimes

forget as professional actors

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play.

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We perform in plays.

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We play characters, we have seen

partners.

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And yet, somewhere along the way, the

experience can become terribly serious.

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We analyze we prepare, we study, we

rehearse, we evaluate, we compare, we worry.

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And then we wonder why the process

doesn't feel particularly joyful.

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Now I'm not suggesting that acting

should always be fun.

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Some material is difficult.

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Some working conditions are

challenging.

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Some Scenes demand tremendous emotional

and physical discipline.

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But I do think there's room for

playfulness in the creative process.

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And by playfulness

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now, I don't mean being silly.

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I mean allowing yourself to explore,

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to experiment, to discover, to be

surprised, to make a choice and see

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what happens.

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00:14:16,890 --> 00:14:20,160

In our last episode, we talked about

asking, what if?

256

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What if the character wants something

different?

257

00:14:24,664 --> 00:14:27,0

What if the obstacle isn't what we

assumed?

258

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What if the behaviour is unexpected?

259

00:14:31,71 --> 00:14:33,773

Well, perhaps there's a connection here.

260

00:14:34,741 --> 00:14:37,444

The actor who becomes curious about

possibilities

261

00:14:38,11 --> 00:14:42,82

may begin to rediscover the pleasure of

exploration.

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00:14:42,816 --> 00:14:43,783

And the pleasure of exploration

263

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may be the work feel less like

examination

264

00:14:49,222 --> 00:14:50,724

and more like an experience.

265

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That's not a guarantee,

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but it certainly

267

00:14:56,96 --> 00:14:58,64

worth investigating, I think, don't you.

268

00:14:59,532 --> 00:15:02,869

Now, what happens when that feeling

seems to disappear?

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Because I suspect many actors listening

have experienced this.

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Maybe you begin acting because you

loved it.

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You loved rehearsing.

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You love performing.

273

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You love to becoming

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involved in stories.

275

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You love the relationships.

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00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:22,722

You love, the excitement of discovery.

277

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And then

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the professional realities, arrived

279

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auditions, rejections,

280

00:15:29,229 --> 00:15:29,529

schedules,

281

00:15:30,263 --> 00:15:34,501

financial pressures, compensations,

self tapes, callbacks, agents, managers,

282

00:15:35,769 --> 00:15:38,571

the constant uncertainty of the

business.

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00:15:39,873 --> 00:15:44,678

And somewhere along the way, actie

began to feel like something you had to

284

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succeed at,

285

00:15:46,346 --> 00:15:48,148

rather than something you loved doing.

286

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That's understandable.

287

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I don't want to trivialise it.

288

00:15:54,254 --> 00:15:57,290

A professional acting career can be

demanding.

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00:15:58,258 --> 00:15:59,359

The pressures are real,

290

00:16:00,493 --> 00:16:04,964

but I wonder whether some actors might

benefit from separating

291

00:16:05,932 --> 00:16:07,33

the two experiences,

292

00:16:08,101 --> 00:16:09,436

the business of being an actor

293

00:16:10,437 --> 00:16:11,371

and the experience

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of acting.

295

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See they're connected,

296

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but they're not identical.

297

00:16:17,77 --> 00:16:18,845

You may be frustrated with the

business.

298

00:16:19,312 --> 00:16:20,914

You may be disappointed with the

opportunities.

299

00:16:21,614 --> 00:16:26,720

You may be exhausted by the uncertainty

and still love the act of performing.

300

00:16:28,188 --> 00:16:30,724

Those feelings can exist together.

301

00:16:32,92 --> 00:16:36,629

Sometimes reconnecting with the work

itself can remind us of why we began.

302

00:16:37,797 --> 00:16:39,999

Not because it solves every

professional problem,

303

00:16:41,134 --> 00:16:46,706

but because it restores, something that

the professional pressures may have obscured.

304

00:16:49,75 --> 00:16:50,510

We're going to make a quick break.

305

00:16:51,77 --> 00:16:56,649

But when we return, I want to explore a

question that I think is especially important.

306

00:16:57,50 --> 00:17:01,454

Can actors actually cultivate this

sense of creative engagement?

307

00:17:02,355 --> 00:17:03,56

And if so,

308

00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:07,27

how do we do it without turning joy

into another performance requirement?

309

00:17:08,28 --> 00:17:11,798

Because the last thing I want is for

actors to leave this episode thinking

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00:17:12,198 --> 00:17:13,933

they now have to be joyful on command.

311

00:17:15,68 --> 00:17:17,103

We'll talk about that right after this.

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00:17:18,338 --> 00:17:20,740

Ok, let's return to our original

question.

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00:17:21,141 --> 00:17:23,43

Can the joy of performance be taught?

314

00:17:24,511 --> 00:17:28,114

I don't think we can teach somebody to

feel excitement on command.

315

00:17:29,449 --> 00:17:32,986

And I certainly don't think we should

require actors to manufacture

316

00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:34,888

enthusiasm.

317

00:17:36,356 --> 00:17:40,427

But I do think we can create conditions

that make creative engagement

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00:17:41,561 --> 00:17:42,228

more possible.

319

00:17:43,863 --> 00:17:45,432

And I want to offer a few ideas.

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00:17:46,433 --> 00:17:49,602

First, reconnect with what interests

you about the scene,

321

00:17:50,270 --> 00:17:53,106

not what you think will get you the job.

322

00:17:53,873 --> 00:17:55,375

What genuinely interests you?

323

00:17:56,676 --> 00:17:57,744

Is it the relationship,

324

00:17:58,178 --> 00:17:59,45

the conflict,

325

00:17:59,479 --> 00:18:00,847

the humor, the mystery?

326

00:18:01,381 --> 00:18:02,115

The character's contradictions?

327

00:18:03,149 --> 00:18:06,886

Find something you want to explore,

something that makes you curious,

328

00:18:07,554 --> 00:18:07,954

because curiosity

329

00:18:09,222 --> 00:18:11,191

gives your attention somewhere to go.

330

00:18:12,158 --> 00:18:12,792

Second,

331

00:18:13,793 --> 00:18:16,329

prepare enough to become available.

332

00:18:17,630 --> 00:18:19,466

Know the material, understand the

circumstances.

333

00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:22,35

Understand what your character needs.

334

00:18:22,268 --> 00:18:23,770

But don't prepare so rigidly

335

00:18:24,904 --> 00:18:27,40

that there's no room for discovery.

336

00:18:27,874 --> 00:18:29,109

Give yourself a foundation,

337

00:18:29,876 --> 00:18:30,543

not a prison.

338

00:18:32,112 --> 00:18:34,748

Third, become interested in the other

person.

339

00:18:34,981 --> 00:18:35,949

This is especially important.

340

00:18:36,349 --> 00:18:40,754

Instead of concentrating on how you're

delivering your words, your lines, pay

341

00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,356

attention to what your seeing partner

is doing,

342

00:18:44,257 --> 00:18:45,592

what are they giving you?

343

00:18:46,426 --> 00:18:47,160

What are they withholding?

344

00:18:47,627 --> 00:18:48,328

What changes?

345

00:18:49,62 --> 00:18:50,263

What surprises you?

346

00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:52,832

How does your behaviour affect them?

347

00:18:53,633 --> 00:18:55,669

And how does their behaviour affect you?

348

00:18:56,436 --> 00:18:59,172

That's where the scene becomes a

relationship

349

00:18:59,773 --> 00:19:01,107

rather than a presentation.

350

00:19:02,575 --> 00:19:03,43

4th,

351

00:19:03,610 --> 00:19:05,311

allow the experience to be imperfect.

352

00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,14

This may be the hardest one,

353

00:19:08,815 --> 00:19:12,18

because when actors are trying to get

everything right, they can become

354

00:19:12,252 --> 00:19:14,554

afraid of anything unexpected.

355

00:19:15,388 --> 00:19:17,924

But creative work involves uncertainty.

356

00:19:18,758 --> 00:19:23,963

Sometimes an experiment doesn't work,

sometimes a moment might feel awkward,

357

00:19:24,731 --> 00:19:27,0

sometimes a chance leads somewhere.

358

00:19:27,701 --> 00:19:28,968

You didn't anticipate

359

00:19:29,869 --> 00:19:31,37

that's part of the process.

360

00:19:32,105 --> 00:19:35,542

You don't have to celebrate every

mistake, but you don't have to be

361

00:19:35,542 --> 00:19:37,744

frightened of every surprise either.

362

00:19:38,678 --> 00:19:42,282

And finally, remember that joy doesn't

have to look like joy.

363

00:19:42,649 --> 00:19:46,553

You don't have to smile you don't have

to be outgoing, you don't have to have

364

00:19:47,153 --> 00:19:48,755

or possess a particular personality.

365

00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:52,792

You don't even have to feel happy.

366

00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:58,565

The objective isn't to appear

enthusiastic it's to become genuinely involved.

367

00:19:59,666 --> 00:20:00,333

Because

368

00:20:01,134 --> 00:20:02,869

I think art is a shared experience.

369

00:20:03,937 --> 00:20:05,772

And that's one more thought I want to

leave you with.

370

00:20:07,374 --> 00:20:10,76

When I think about my own experiences

as an actor,

371

00:20:10,677 --> 00:20:13,913

I remember being curious about how I

affected the people around me.

372

00:20:14,914 --> 00:20:16,950

And that curiosity has stayed with me.

373

00:20:17,851 --> 00:20:21,221

Because acting isn't simply something

we experience privately.

374

00:20:21,855 --> 00:20:23,189

It's something we share.

375

00:20:24,357 --> 00:20:26,92

We affect our seed partners,

376

00:20:27,227 --> 00:20:27,827

we affect

377

00:20:29,229 --> 00:20:29,396

directors.

378

00:20:29,863 --> 00:20:30,764

We affect audiences.

379

00:20:31,531 --> 00:20:33,133

Sometimes we make people laugh,

380

00:20:34,501 --> 00:20:37,470

sometimes we make people feel

uncomfortable, and sometimes we make

381

00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:39,673

them recognize something about

themselves.

382

00:20:40,974 --> 00:20:41,775

Sometimes

383

00:20:42,275 --> 00:20:44,944

we simply hold their attention for a

moment.

384

00:20:45,945 --> 00:20:48,815

And we may never know exactly what

effect we had.

385

00:20:49,949 --> 00:20:51,51

That's part of the mystery.

386

00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:56,823

I once found myself thinking that art

only becomes art when it affects

387

00:20:57,223 --> 00:20:57,924

somebody else.

388

00:20:59,392 --> 00:21:03,396

Now I recognize that's a philosophical

statement that could keep us debating

389

00:21:03,697 --> 00:21:04,431

for quite a while.

390

00:21:04,597 --> 00:21:07,300

And perhaps we'd need a much longer

podcast.

391

00:21:08,435 --> 00:21:09,536

Hm, I don't know.

392

00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:12,972

But the idea behind it still matters to

me,

393

00:21:14,40 --> 00:21:14,741

art is communication.

394

00:21:15,475 --> 00:21:19,312

And performance becomes especially

meaningful when our inner creative

395

00:21:19,779 --> 00:21:22,415

experience reaches another human being,

396

00:21:24,17 --> 00:21:28,321

not necessarily through a dramatic

reaction, not necessarily through applause.

397

00:21:28,888 --> 00:21:30,390

Sometimes the effect is quiet,

398

00:21:31,224 --> 00:21:32,792

sometimes it's delayed.

399

00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,528

Sometimes we never know it happened.

400

00:21:36,429 --> 00:21:37,931

But the possibility of that connection

401

00:21:38,998 --> 00:21:41,935

is part of what makes performing

extraordinary.

402

00:21:43,136 --> 00:21:47,40

And perhaps that's what I was

anticipating all those years ago.

403

00:21:48,174 --> 00:21:52,579

Not simply the pleasure of acting, but

the possibility of sharing something,

404

00:21:53,713 --> 00:21:56,583

of entering a world with other people

and discovering

405

00:21:57,617 --> 00:21:58,385

what might happen.

406

00:22:00,20 --> 00:22:02,255

That's a remarkable privilege.

407

00:22:04,24 --> 00:22:06,726

So here's your reset for this episode,

408

00:22:07,293 --> 00:22:11,998

before your next audition, rehearsal or

performance, ask yourself a different question,

409

00:22:13,299 --> 00:22:16,2

not how am I going to do,

410

00:22:17,103 --> 00:22:17,604

but

411

00:22:18,438 --> 00:22:20,640

what am I looking forward to

discovering,

412

00:22:21,775 --> 00:22:24,10

what interests me about this scene?

413

00:22:25,145 --> 00:22:27,47

What do I want from the other person?

414

00:22:27,614 --> 00:22:29,916

What might happen that I haven't

anticipated?

415

00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:34,87

And once the scene begins, give

yourself permission to participate,

416

00:22:34,921 --> 00:22:35,855

listen, respond.

417

00:22:36,489 --> 00:22:40,760

Allow yourself to be affected and

become curious about how your behavior

418

00:22:41,227 --> 00:22:42,729

affects the people around you.

419

00:22:44,664 --> 00:22:48,735

Don't try to manufacture excitement,

don't try to demonstrate joy.

420

00:22:49,235 --> 00:22:53,440

Don't turn creative engagement into

another standard you have to meet.

421

00:22:54,341 --> 00:22:58,712

Simply remember that acting is

something you once wanted to do,

422

00:22:59,379 --> 00:23:03,483

something that captured your

imagination, something that made you

423

00:23:03,616 --> 00:23:05,385

curious about people, relationships,

424

00:23:06,419 --> 00:23:09,756

stories and the extraordinary

complexity of human behavior.

425

00:23:11,157 --> 00:23:14,994

And perhaps somewhere beneath all the

professional pressures, that curiosity

426

00:23:16,262 --> 00:23:16,963

is still there,

427

00:23:17,697 --> 00:23:19,32

waiting for an opportunity.

428

00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:22,869

Because the audience doesn't need to

see how much you love acting.

429

00:23:23,536 --> 00:23:24,170

They need to experience

430

00:23:25,238 --> 00:23:27,674

what that love makes possible.

431

00:23:29,376 --> 00:23:30,410

I'm Jeff drives back.

432

00:23:31,144 --> 00:23:33,79

Thank you so much for spending time

with me.

433

00:23:33,313 --> 00:23:37,117

This is casting actor's cast, and i'll

see you next time.

434

00:23:38,251 --> 00:23:39,219

From all the lots to

435

00:23:39,452 --> 00:23:40,520

screen, fast to

436

00:23:40,653 --> 00:23:41,454

everyone,

437

00:23:45,225 --> 00:23:47,27

break down those last

438

00:23:48,361 --> 00:23:50,96

sign, the journey with Geoffrey

439

00:23:51,398 --> 00:23:51,698

jumping

440

00:23:59,706 --> 00:24:00,974

dick slum wants you

441

00:24:02,976 --> 00:24:04,944

every week we're bringing you