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[0:00] Jennifer Apple: Hello! Welcome to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Apple, a multi-hyphenate actor, educator, acting coach, writer, dog mom, and founder of this vibrant community that champions artists as they carve out their own unique paths in this wild industry. Whether you're just starting out, in the thick of it, or seeking a bit of artistic fuel to expand your toolbox, you're in the right place. In this space, we'll have honest conversations, share actionable strategies, tips, and resources, and delve into the messy yet beautiful journey of living a sustainable, creative life. We unmask the reality of life as an artist, from navigating career highs and lows to nurturing your full human well-being.

I chat with women and non-binary guests who share their personal stories, helpful learnings, and hearts to help you unlock your artistic potential, expand your knowledge, and show up fully and fearlessly in your artistry and daily life. Before we dive into this week's conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. If today's chat resonates with you, please leave us a review. It helps us reach even more incredible artists just like you. And hey, feel free to spread the love. Share this podcast with a friend or post it on your socials, making sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can chat with you there. Alright, grab a cup of something cozy, settle in, and let's get to it.

[1:22] Jennifer Apple: Ever wonder what it takes to become a sound designer? In this episode, I chat with Tony Award-winning sound designer Jessica Paz to demystify the path into sound design and offer a behind-the-scenes look at what the job entails. From breaking down the different jobs within the world of sound to discussing the gear that is helpful to know, Jessica shares the nitty-gritty of how she got started, what tools she uses on the job, and how to approach learning for this part of the industry. Together, we talk about advocating for yourself in a male-dominated space and how collaboration is at the heart of good design. She gives advice on how to build relationships with other creatives, tips for working in various houses, and why staying curious and asking questions is essential.

Whether you're an aspiring sound designer or simply fascinated by how theater comes to life through audio, this episode offers actionable tools, insider knowledge, and empowering insights to help you step into and thrive in the dynamic world of sound design. Jessica Paz, welcome to the space.

[2:21] Jessica Paz: Thank you for having me.

[2:23] Jennifer Apple: I'm so grateful that you are here. For anybody who does not know you, who are you today?

[2:29] Jessica Paz: Oh, do I get to choose who I am today?

[2:31] Jennifer Apple: Oh, yeah. This is a choose-your-own-adventure.

[2:34] Jessica Paz: Choose-your-own-adventure. I am Jessica Paz. I am a sound designer primarily for theatrical musicals and plays in the theatrical space. I've also done some concert work, audio drama work, podcast work. Not quite yet worked on film or TV, but I hope to. Yeah, sometimes I write music here and there. That's me. That's me today.

[3:00] Jennifer Apple: We have not had a sound designer in this space, and so to finally have somebody with the career that you have had in here feels like a true honor, so I'm very grateful. I'm curious to hear how you got into this work and certainly the journey that it's taken to get where you are.

[3:21] Jessica Paz: I think similar to many people, there weren't a lot of university or college programs for sound design, and I truly found it by accident. I'll just do a brief little timeline so that we can talk about more fun things, but I was friends with someone who was an actress, and she was in this Rocky Horror show at this community theater, and I'd go every weekend and hang out.

[3:51] Jennifer Apple: When you were in high school or college?

[3:55] Jessica Paz: In my early 20s, yeah. I didn't really know even that backstage work was a job or being a... I just thought it was magic, and I wasn't making a lot of money at the time and didn't want to pay for tickets, so I started volunteering to operate the fog machine or something, and then I eventually did sound and started stage managing and volunteered my time there, and then sound at that theater became doing sound at another theater, and so I was mixing, and a friend of mine was going to be directing a production of Smokey Joe's Cafe, and I wanted to be the sound designer. I didn't want to just mix it, so I went into the artistic director's office and asked him if I could sound design it and told him if he wasn't happy with my work, after two days of tech, he could fire me, and then I never got fired.

[4:54] Jennifer Apple: Wow. I love the audacity, but also the confidence in knowing that you were going to be good at this thing that I guess you've never held a position officially doing.

[4:58] Jessica Paz: No. How did you know you were ready? The worst he's going to say is no, and then I still get to mix the show anyway.

[5:03] Jennifer Apple: Okay. How did you learn, and I guess, well, thank you for sharing that, but now, how did you learn to mix, to sound design? I mean, it seems like for all intents and purposes, you have not gone the quote-unquote traditional, say, university training structure of it all, so were there mentors? Was it like, oh, I had, you know, all these, I don't know, videos that I watched? Was it reading books? Was it just sitting and twiddling?

[5:32] Jessica Paz: It was a combination of that, and the reason that I started doing sound in the first place was because there was the show, there was a show in that theater, and the sound was super bad, and it was feeding back all the time, and it was making me crazy. I was the stage manager. I wasn't even doing the sound, and I went to a sound friend of mine named Matt, and I asked him how to do a mic check. I had no idea what I was talking about, so he explained it to me, and then the next day, I went in, and I did a sound check with the cast before the show, and we had a show without feedback for the first time, and then I started mixing, and then moved on to mixing musicals at other theaters, and did that for a few years until I applied for a sound op position on an off-Broadway play with Rob Kaplowitz, a sound designer who became a mentor and a really dear friend of mine, and I worked my way from board op to the following show.

He hired me as an assistant, and then he became the designer of a show called Fela, which was a musical about the life of Fela Kuti, Nigerian musician, Afrobeat artist, etc., and I got promoted to associate for that position. We did the show on Broadway. We took it to London's National Theatre. We took it to its home in Nigeria, and I got to mix a concert version of the show in Fela's nightclub, which was super amazing and strange, and yeah, so I worked for Rob for about eight years, and then I kind of, theater slowed down a bit. I did a lot of work at venues like Sleep No More, Queen of the Night, The Box, and working with a lot of local bands throughout Brooklyn, and various, doing a lot of event work, mostly, but music mixing, which is wonderful, and became, was the assistant-slash-associate for a sound designer named Mark Menard at the Delacorte Theatre, and got promoted to designer at the Delacorte after he sadly passed away, but I designed out there as either associate or lead designer for seven years, and then I ended up making a connection with Nevin Steinberg, who is a sound designer on Broadway.

You may know him from a little skit called Hamilton, and Hadestown, and Dear Evan Hansen, so I became his associate for Dear Evan Hansen, and that sort of started our working relationship, was an associate for him on shows like Bandstand, the Bright Star Tour, and Dear Evan Hansen throughout its life, and including its West End productions, et cetera, and then we became co-designers on Hadestown, but I actually started as his associate when the show was in Canada, and became co-designer when the show moved from Canada to the National Theatre in London, which was just prior to its Broadway engagement.

[9:04] Jennifer Apple: Thank you for going into the details of it, because, I mean, I kind of wanted to, like, flex on your behalf, being like, let's just talk about the things that you've done, but you naturally got there, and it's just the breadth of work that you have done is expansive, and it really, I mean, if I think about, like, the pieces themselves, they all tell very different, but heartfelt stories, and there's all, like, a pulse of real creativity, and so it's just, it's cool. I love an origin story, is ultimately the bottom line, because it really tells, for me, like, an ethos a little bit about the way in which somebody works, and the things that they value, and the way in which they build community, of which clearly you have.

I'm curious to dial back just a bit, and this is, like, the nuts and bolts of it all, which may feel, you know, maybe reductive for some folks, but I think it's important before I maybe throw other things into the mix, of, like, what is the landscape of sound design for positions, as in, like, what is actually possible, right? Like, you're naming associates, you're naming, you know, co-creating, you're naming mixing, you're naming sound ops, like, you're naming these positions that, as I've been in the career for a while, and been in many shows, like, I've interacted with folks like this, but maybe for folks who are newer, or are like, hey, I really do love sound, but I'm not even quite sure what is possible. What are some of the jobs that even exist, or the things that people could do?

[10:31] Jessica Paz: I'll talk about the positions just at the Broadway level. Obviously, every level has sort of a different way that they do things, but Broadway is the most bespoke, right? We go into a Broadway theater, we get four walls, some seats, and maybe some heat. We hope. We hope. They'll turn the heat on at some point. So, we bring in everything. Every cable, every microphone, every connector, adapter, like, you name it, there is really, truly nothing, including dressing room, speaker systems, and all of that. So, there's the design, the sound designer, right? So, that's the sort of the head of the department responsible for the sound system design, the content creation, etc., for hiring the team that works on the show, and then alongside the sound designer would be the associate or assistant.

Sometimes there's both. There could potentially be an internship position, as well, at the design table, and then you have your A1, or mixer. They, generally speaking, share the responsibility of programming the sound console alongside the associate and designer throughout the production, and they are responsible for mixing the show on a day-to-day basis and maintaining the sound of the show on a day-to-day basis, up to and including, you know, how new actors and understudies sound, and etc. There is the A2, who works backstage with the actors and all of their microphones and is in charge of building all of those rigs that the actors wear, all custom-built for every person, for every show, and then they also kind of take care of the band area.

So, all of the microphones and monitoring for the musicians gets maintained by that person, as well. On the installation side, so at load-in and at the shop prep, so there will be a shop order that I put together as a designer. That is all the equipment we want to use for the sound system. There's about a three to four-week shop prep period where all the equipment comes into, like, a zone in the warehouse, and a team of people build the sound system from scratch and custom, and then it gets tested. It gets put in boxes, brought to the theater, and gets put back up, and then tested again. It's wild. And so, there's a production audio position who is the lead in charge of the installation of that.

[13:09] Jennifer Apple: Welcome back to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. Today, we have a very special guest, Jessica Paz, who is a Tony Award-winning sound designer. Jessica, thank you so much for being here.

[13:39] Jessica Paz: Thank you for having me, Jennifer. I'm excited to be here and talk about sound design.

[14:09] Jennifer Apple: So, let's dive right in. What does a sound designer do, and how did you get started in this field?

[14:39] Jessica Paz: A sound designer is responsible for creating the auditory world of a production. This includes everything from the music to the sound effects and the overall soundscape. I got started in sound design during my time in college. I was drawn to the technical aspects of theater and found that sound was a way to express my creativity while also being deeply involved in the storytelling process.

[15:09] Jennifer Apple: That's fascinating! Can you share some of the tools or gear that you find essential for sound design?

[15:39] Jessica Paz: Absolutely! Some of the essential tools include digital audio workstations like Pro Tools or Logic Pro, as well as various microphones and speakers. I also rely heavily on plugins for sound effects and mixing. Understanding how to use these tools effectively is crucial for creating a polished sound design.

[15:49] Jennifer Apple: It sounds like there's a lot to learn. How do you approach the learning process in this industry?

[15:59] Jessica Paz: I think staying curious is key. I always encourage aspiring sound designers to ask questions and seek out opportunities to learn from others. Collaborating with different artists and attending workshops can also provide invaluable experience.

[16:09] Jennifer Apple: Collaboration seems to be a big theme in your work. Can you talk about the importance of collaboration in sound design?

[16:19] Jessica Paz: Definitely! Collaboration is at the heart of good design. Working closely with directors, actors, and other designers helps to create a cohesive vision for the production. It's important to communicate openly and be receptive to feedback to ensure that the sound enhances the overall experience.

[16:29] Jennifer Apple: That's such a great perspective. In a male-dominated space, how do you advocate for yourself as a sound designer?

[16:39] Jessica Paz: Advocating for myself has been a journey. I’ve learned to speak up about my ideas and to be confident in my contributions. Building relationships with other creatives and finding mentors has also helped me navigate challenges in the industry.

[16:49] Jennifer Apple: Those relationships sound invaluable. What advice would you give to someone just starting out in sound design?

[16:59] Jessica Paz: I would say to be persistent and keep honing your craft. Don't be afraid to experiment and make mistakes, as they are often the best learning experiences. Also, network as much as possible; you never know where a connection might lead.

[17:09] Jennifer Apple: Great advice! Can you share a project that you're particularly proud of?

[17:19] Jessica Paz: One project that stands out is "Hadestown." The collaboration with the creative team was incredible, and I felt that we really pushed the boundaries of what sound design could do in a musical context. It was a rewarding experience to see how the sound contributed to the storytelling.

[17:29] Jennifer Apple: That sounds amazing! What do you think is the most challenging aspect of sound design?

[17:39] Jessica Paz: One of the biggest challenges is balancing the technical and artistic sides of the work. You have to be both a technician and an artist, which can be a lot to juggle. Additionally, ensuring that the sound is clear and impactful in different venues can be quite challenging.

[17:49] Jennifer Apple: It sounds like a complex but rewarding field. How do you stay inspired in your work?

[17:59] Jessica Paz: I stay inspired by constantly seeking out new experiences, whether that’s attending performances, exploring different genres of music, or collaborating with new artists. Inspiration can come from anywhere, so I try to keep my mind open.

[18:09] Jennifer Apple: That's a wonderful mindset to have. Thank you for sharing your insights with us today, Jessica.

[18:19] Jessica Paz: Thank you for having me, Jennifer. It's been a pleasure to share my journey and talk about sound design.

[18:29] Jennifer Apple: And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. We hope you found this conversation inspiring and informative. Until next time!

[26:18] Jessica Paz: How do you meet new people or new folks in this world or do they kind of knock on your door now?

[26:24] Jennifer Apple: Both. It's yeah, it's both ways. I will get emails from people looking for work or wanting to send me their resumes wanting to have coffee. Sometimes I get emails from students wanting to talk to me because they're writing a paper for school. I have a contact database where I keep people's resumes and I keep notes on what someone's favorite ice cream. I don't know, things that I could like get them for opening night gifts. I'm now incorporating a frequency of contact. So there are certain people that I do like I remember it of my own accord in my mind, but I want to keep up with people on a regular basis. So I'm setting it up so that my contacts automatically send me an email.

[27:14] Jessica Paz: I love it.

[27:17] Jennifer Apple: I think we take it for granted. I know myself as well. I've been over this past couple of years really trying to be more intentional about the relationships that you build and the people that you meet and in an organic way of like you've shared things with me. We've spent time, we've talked, like I am curious about your life even if we haven't spoken in a hot second. Like what are the ways in which we can continue staying engaged? And you never know who people become and who you become a little bit on. And to be honest, because I value my relationships, I even have reminders in my calendar that remind me at certain intervals to call my brother or call my best friends.

[27:53] Jessica Paz: Yeah, because if not, otherwise what happens is not that I forget to call my brother. It's just that six weeks will go by and I'll be super busy.

[28:02] Jennifer Apple: For sure, so I won't be able to remember to send him a, "Hey, I love you."

[28:07] Jessica Paz: Yeah, I literally with my friends now and we go out for whatever we do, we will pull out our calendars then knowing that things can change and we can always change it but put a calendar date and it could be like two months out that are just like, "Hey, we are now going to be intentionally seeing one another." Because when you would time, I don't know where time goes and certainly when you're like in true adulthood, it's just like where is it? What is it like? No, if it doesn't get on the calendar, it will never happen.

[28:31] Jennifer Apple: But if it gets on the calendar, even if it moves, it will occur.

[28:36] Jessica Paz: A thousand percent. Yep, that is the mantra to live by. I will live and die by it truly.

[28:40] Jennifer Apple: I love it. Are there certain actual processes that you use with that? Is that like systems on your computer or you know?

[28:46] Jessica Paz: I believe that every sound designer needs to play around in this kind of thing or be really behoove them to own an iPad like, I don't know. But are there certain things that you're like, actually this would be a really good helpful sound designer starter kit to get familiar with?

[29:02] Jennifer Apple: Sure.

[29:03] Jessica Paz: I think Ableton Live is probably the best piece of software to use for creating sound effects just in terms of its flexibility and speed to being able to spit things out and alter and stretch and cut up. It's just fast for that kind of work and really creative and it doesn't always need to function linearly all the time. You can use it non-linearly, which is really great.

[29:36] Jennifer Apple: Is that considered like industry standard or is that just your preference or is there not even an industry standard?

[29:39] Jessica Paz: I don't know. That's my preference for what DAW to use. I prefer Pro Tools for mixing, Ableton Live for creating sound effects and content, and then there's Logic which sort of lives in the world in between. Depending on what the project is, I may use any one of those DAWs. I use MainStage as a reverb engine host. We also, keyboards and the music department use MainStage for keyboard programming and synth sounds and things like that as well. So I don't do that part of the job, that's the music department, but we use MainStage in the sound department on my shows to host reverbs. So I'd say that's a pretty big tool.

[30:25] Jennifer Apple: And I will say that in terms of technology and software, I tend to incorporate new tools on a regular basis. I set aside what I call my friend who a friend of mine was like, "What are you talking about?" It's like R&D and they were like, "What?" And I'm like, "I know I'm just like self-employed." But I do set aside time for R&D for research and development. Yeah, and you know, we'll try a new piece of software or take a little course, read, it's you know, research time. It's new tools and new practices and I'm actually in the process of reorganizing my workflows for my to-do lists and calendars and email to all new software, which I did about a year ago and I'm doing again because the software technology is changing so rapidly now with AI that there's just a new solution all the time and I've never quite found one product that can do all the things that we need to do. So sometimes I will build custom solutions for things I need to manage.

[31:25] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I think you're naming something that's also really wonderful is how adaptable it seems that you are in the way in which you work. You know, I think there and there's no fault in any of it. There's some folks that you know, they do what they do and they do it really well and it is what they do and they stick to it. And then there are other folks which it seems like maybe is yourself, which is, you know, you know what you do, you do it really well and if there's something else that will make you do your job better or there's a way to improve this particular area of the thing, the curiosity around learning what that could be to continue growing yourself and expanding the ways in which you work, you're open to that. And arguably that's, again, like what's gonna continue propelling your career for the rest of your life as you continue, you know, moving with the times.

[32:10] Jessica Paz: I feel like my grandmother but like living with the time, you know, adapting with the way in which the world is moving and certainly sound is very much like a tech-based part of what we do and the technology is changing. What I tend to enjoy about having a way in which I do things is that I like to think that I show up to each show with a set of tools. Yeah, and those tools are the processors. I like to work with the software, familiar with the console that I enjoy that I know how to program really well. It's a set of tools and then I expand on that tool set specifically either for the show because it's for the show specific or I'm just trying something new and experimenting. But having the tools means that I can set myself up to do it the way that I've always done it but have the flexibility to do it a different way if needed.

[33:15] Jennifer Apple: Correct, correct, which is what makes you brilliant at what you do. So yay to knowing yourself and like the way you work and giving yourself growth opportunities. I feel like that's how we don't stay stagnant and how we continue staying creative and dramatically and artistically.

[33:32] Jessica Paz: What solved something on another show won't necessarily work on this show, right? Yes, for any number of reasons.

[33:39] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, what are some of the things that now at this point in your career are really fulfilling for you creatively? That could be project-based, that could be community-based, that could be like again like the technology-based. Like where are you finding current fulfillment and creative inspiration?

[33:55] Jessica Paz: I will answer that. I think in terms of the people I choose to surround myself with creatively and the projects that I choose to take on. I mean, there's ways I feel creative with the technology, but it's about the relationships. It's about the storytelling. It's about feeling part of something and that I'm working with other people and we're all working together to create something new. Yeah, it's like giving birth. I like to say that after a show when I'm done with a show that I have postpartum for like the yeah after I'm finished because you work so hard and so many hours and you know almost to the detriment of every other area of your life or the production period and then the show opens and it's just over.

[34:58] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, no, it's very real. It's very that creative pushed off a cliff.

[35:04] Jessica Paz: Yeah, it's very, very real. We had a conversation with Liz Kimball in our first season all about that creative cycle of like the idea, the actual creativity, the investment, the physical investment, the emotional, the spiritual, whatever, the birthing of the thing and then whoo.

[35:21] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, and it's over and it really is something that arguably many artists don't even really name because it's just part of what we do. You know, it's we create the thing and we move on to the next thing and then we create that thing and move on to the next thing and it's so it can easily just become part of that cycle. We just create and then move on. But to not acknowledge that process in my opinion is just diminishing the art itself like that and that was the creation like that was the thing that took so much out of you and so under the hangover that comes afterwards, the postpartum, the depression, the sadness, the exhaustion, all of those feelings, A is like totally natural but B it would be wild if you didn't feel that otherwise, where were you?

[36:09] Jessica Paz: And also you just are now going from seeing, you know, 50 or 60 people every single day for months on end that you've now gotten used to and attached to to not seeing those people every single day anymore. It's a lot of relationships to shift all at once and also finish a project and so I will used to beat up on myself for spending a day or two in bed after a project was done. Now I just know.

[36:42] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I think I really love that you're naming that because we don't do what we do in isolation at all. It is a massive collaboration and as you named, you know, when I asked all the different like people who even work within the sound department, it's like you named 50 people and that is just one department let alone the entire infrastructure of the thing that everyone's creating and yeah to be in a reminder that what we do is a collaboration I think is really important. So it's a breakup.

[37:12] Jessica Paz: I know, I know and one that you're like, but I didn't want this.

[37:17] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, oh there was a time I see got it.

[37:21] Jessica Paz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[37:27] Jennifer Apple: In the same vein, are there certain topics that you are interested in pursuing for projects or again, is it really just more about like the people that you're doing it with and whatever, you know, and trust that those relationships will create something beautiful?

[37:40] Jessica Paz: Both, okay, right, but I'm also expanding a little bit into producing.

[37:45] Jennifer Apple: Okay.

[37:46] Jessica Paz: And as a Tony nominee, so there's a number of things that I'm interested in. I may have influence in a room on a collaborative process and on how that show gets made, but I am finding myself desiring to be having a bit more influence over what is being made.

[38:11] Jennifer Apple: Yes, right, and what is being rewarded for being made.

[38:17] Jessica Paz: And so I'm also doing a little bit of producing and so it's what comes my way and what speaks to me and in terms of topic and you know, of course women's stories, queer stories, environmental stories, but then there's also, you know, so there's the really deep stories and then there's shows like Six, right, that are these really fun concerts. I mean, there's a lot of that are these really fun concert experiences and are over-the-top and like bombastic but amazing and exactly what they're supposed to be and that's really fun too.

[39:00] Jennifer Apple: Right, there's both, there's all that and then there's the, oh, the content of this show doesn't necessarily speak to me, but I have this really great relationship with you as a director.

[39:11] Jessica Paz: So yeah, did you notice a shift post-Tony, which muzzle congratulations? How was that experience and do you have you noticed a shift?

[39:17] Jessica Paz: There's a funny shift in that everyone assumes that you're like super, super double triple booked.

[39:27] Jennifer Apple: Your advice for anybody who is listening to this and interested, whether they've been in it a little bit or whether they are first starting out?

[44:14] Jessica Paz: I would say read the trade magazines, stay abreast of new technology, and also dive into various studio production techniques. And while not all of them are able to be replicated in a live environment, they teach you various ways of processing audio. Also, the various parallel fields in audio inform each other, in my opinion. Something that is done on film could maybe be done in a live environment. I think those worlds are bridging more and more as technology grows and becomes more capable, right? So I think that that's important. A lot of the techniques that I use on Hadestown I learned from just reading magazines.

[44:57] Jennifer Apple: Do you believe that one has to go to school for sound and sound design?

[45:26] Jessica Paz: No, I think that there is something that you get from school and college particularly. One is that you don't necessarily learn everything you need to know about your major, but you learn how to think and you learn how to ask questions. I think that some of the most successful people in the world are people who know how to think and how to ask really good questions and know that they don't have to have the answers to everything because it's impossible, right? So that's what you get out of school. But I think the bulk of the education of how to do sound and how to do sound in these rooms comes from experience. Yeah, and on the job. And then there's the talent, right? You can do all the things and have no talent, and you can do all the things and have talent.

Yeah. So there's all aspects. But I think college is a great path. And also not only does it teach you how to think and ask good questions, which is part of thinking, it also helps you form relationships. There's a lot of people who they all went to Yale together, and so they do shows together all the time. And there are these groups that form. You get to build relationships, which is important. I didn't have that. And I think that without those relationships, things take longer. It takes longer to get where you want to go.

[46:51] Jennifer Apple: I will say one thing, and it's about being a woman in the industry. It'll be the only thing that I say is that not only is it really important to be treated as an equal, being a woman or even a person of color in the industry, to be treated as equal, it is important to enter these rooms and feel equal.

[47:07] Jessica Paz: Right. We need to feel like we need to come in not questioning that and not showing up and putting the imposter syndrome aside, I think. Yeah. And coming into these rooms as an equal, even if we go home and, you know, cry. Whatever. But I think that it's just as important for women to be given the place in the room and for women to take it. Yeah. And to not wait for it to be given to them either. Show up feeling equal. Because I think showing up feeling equal gives people permission to treat you equal and vice versa, right? And being treated as equal gives us permission to act as equal. And I think it all informs each other. And I don't think that we should be waiting to be given permission to participate in rooms in the ways that we want. I think that in the room, then we got to show up fully, right?

[48:10] Jennifer Apple: I love it.

[48:11] Jessica Paz: Yeah. Not halfway. And not just fully, actually. Probably like 125%, 110%. We got to show up better. Right? There's no...

[48:23] Jennifer Apple: I've been criticized for having high standards.

[48:26] Jessica Paz: High standards for yourself or for others or for the show?

[48:29] Jennifer Apple: All.

[48:30] Jessica Paz: Mm-hmm. Probably highest for myself. But my standards are very high. And, you know, to live up to my expectations can be hard because my standards are really high. And the and to this, not the but. The and to that is that you know that you're capable of it. Mm-hmm. You know, you wouldn't be setting those expectations or those standards for yourself if you didn't know that you could. And I will add to that in terms of, you know, what should people learn, all those things. I happen to feel like my career has been very special because I've been able to do all the jobs. I've been an A2. I've been an A1. I've been a stay-at-home mom. I've pushed boxes. I've run cable across fields. I've, you know, slept in console covers. I've, you know, packed trucks and I've worked in shops and I've done so many of the jobs and therefore I feel like that gives me permission to have high standards and I get to have high standards because I know how to do the job.

[49:31] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[49:32] Jessica Paz: And can do it. Yeah. And you put in actual hours and sweat and blood and tears probably to make it.

[49:38] Jennifer Apple: I know what it takes to do it. I know how hard it is and I know it can be done. So let's do it.

[49:43] Jessica Paz: Yeah.

[49:44] Jennifer Apple: And I also just want to name that like even if you didn't do all of the other jobs, you're still worthy of it. Like I just, you know, like you have put in all of that and therefore even more so, but even if you didn't, like you are putting in the time, the energy, the talent, the emotional presence for all these jobs that you are currently doing and that also makes you worthy for it. Period. But I think that it makes me a better designer to be able to know and understand what it feels like to mix a show and that gives me the ability to conversate with my A1 in a better and different way.

[50:16] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[50:19] Jessica Paz: You're a collaborator because you actually know what these jobs entail. You're not just talking to people who do things. You're like, no, I get this actively.

[50:26] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[50:27] Jessica Paz: Yeah. Actively get it. Yes.

[50:30] Jennifer Apple: I love it. Thank you for going on this journey with me and for sharing all of your beautiful insights and the various aspects of this part of the industry. I know I've learned and I also, I know our listeners will learn. So for anybody who wants to continue following along for your journey, potentially reach out to you for questions, thoughts, considerations, how within your boundaries is the best way for people to find you or follow along for your journey?

[50:55] Jessica Paz: I have a website, JessicaPaz.com, that is probably in desperate need of updating because I do my own web design and bookkeeping and taxes and accounting and all of that. So there's just not time to do it all myself. I got it. And then I have Facebook and Instagram. You can find me on those, which are also linked on my websites and my contact information should be on there. But if it isn't, it should be design at JessicaPaz.com is a good address to reach me.

[51:29] Jennifer Apple: Beautiful. Thank you so much. That's it for today's episode. I hope you walk away with some fresh insights, feel inspired and a little more empowered to take the next step on your artistic journey. Remember, whether it's a small shift or a big breakthrough, every step forward counts. You've got this. And we're here cheering you on every step of the way. If you found today's episode helpful, don't forget to hit subscribe. So you'll never miss out on the discussions we have each week. And if something today really resonated with you, please leave us a review. It truly is one of the best ways to help other artists find our podcast and join in on the conversations. Plus, we feel the love too when you do.

And don't keep all this goodness to yourself. Share this episode with your people or post about it on social media. Be sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple underscore so we can see what's landing for you and keep the conversation going. As always, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. And thank you for being a part of this incredible community. Keep creating. Keep thriving. Stay empowered. I'm Jennifer Apple. Until next time.