This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Andrew: We've got a mission to find the best song that's ever been on Glee.

[0:09] Andrew: There's no rhyme or reason to it, so don't get mad at me.

[0:18] Andrew: Glacket by Glacket, we'll rank everyone to see which song will move closer to spot number one.

[0:26] Andrew: Gleek of the Week, Gleek, Gleek, Gleek of the Week. It's Gleek, Gleek of the Week.

[0:35] Andrew: Hey! Okay, so first recording of 2026, and we have none other than Miss Tina Cohen Chang.

[0:45] Andrew: I'm talking about Jenna V. Ushkowitz with us today. Hey!

[0:50] Jenna Ushkowitz: Hello!

[0:52] Andrew: How is everything?

[0:54] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh my gosh, it's crazy. Happy 2026!

[0:59] Andrew: What are you looking forward to getting done this year?

[1:01] Jenna Ushkowitz: You know, it's funny you ask that. I honestly have a lot going on, but I chose not to do any resolutions this year. I also chose not to have a word this year. I am quietly squeaking into 2026, hoping for a very quiet 2026. Now, I know the reality behind that, but there's a weird hope and manifestation for a calm 2026. Does that make sense?

[1:34] Andrew: I mean, could the word be calm? I know that you just said that you don't want a word, and here I am presenting a word to you.

[1:40] Jenna Ushkowitz: The calm was 2025, and 2025 was anything but calm.

[1:44] Andrew: Oh, so you've learned.

[1:46] Jenna Ushkowitz: I've learned. The expectation is just not there anymore at all.

[1:50] Andrew: Wait, what other words have you had?

[1:53] Jenna Ushkowitz: I mean, I don't know. I mean, in the past, I'm sure I was like, successful and fruitful in whatever way. It was just like, a lot of like, there was a lot of hope.

[2:07] Andrew: Yeah.

[2:07] Jenna Ushkowitz: Or dreams.

[2:10] Andrew: Oh no, we're starting off on this. No, oh no. Can we just like, survive?

[2:16] Jenna Ushkowitz: Sure.

[2:17] Jenna Ushkowitz: But you know, it's gotten weird over the past five to eight years, so I'm just kind of, I'm just trying to exist here and make it, okay?

[2:25] Andrew: I got it. I mean, like, I'm watching, I mean, like, I, Pie in the Sky, would obviously love to see you back on Broadway. I know that that's anything but calm.

[2:36] Jenna Ushkowitz: I know, I know. I would love that too, to be honest. It's like, I haven't been performing or acting a ton. Obviously, I've been playing mom and, you know, working with this new company. And so like, there's just a lot of different things happening in my life and perpetually podcasting. So, but you know, uprooting my whole family is different than like, shooting off to New York for two or three years to do like, Waitress and a movie, you know, so it's a different life now. So I would do it for sure. It would just have to be the right thing.

[3:08] Andrew: Of course. Do you have, hey, you know the question's coming. Do you have a right thing? What's, what is the dream role next for you?

[3:16] Jenna Ushkowitz: I mean, maybe Heavy Ending would be really fun.

[3:18] Andrew: That, oh my god, when you were talking with Darren, and like, it was the first time that you revealed that like, you did a workshop at one point, or like you were involved.

[3:27] Jenna Ushkowitz: I auditioned for it. I auditioned for it. That was as simple as that. I did get asked to read it for a workshop. I don't remember if it was an audition or not. But there was some point in which I had looked at the script, and I, it's so freaking special, and I still haven't even seen it. But I just know how special it is.

[3:46] Andrew: Oh, yeah. It's incredible.

[3:48] Jenna Ushkowitz: So good.

[3:49] Andrew: And I mean, like, Darren, has he even, has he, but this is bad Gleek alert, has he announced when he's leaving? I feel like he's just continuously just...

[3:58] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, no, I don't think he talks about it. I think he just does it. He goes, he comes back and he goes, Yeah, I don't even think he was talking about coming back until he was coming back.

[4:07] Andrew: Yeah. Well, I mean, that would be, that would kill me and many other Gleeks to see you and Darren opposite each other.

[4:12] Jenna Ushkowitz: That would have been the thing, too. I know, I know. That would have been fun.

[4:17] Jenna Ushkowitz: It also, I think, is like, not that I'm saying Helen, like, it's Helen's part. But initially, when I had auditioned for it, like, the first thing through my mind was like, there is no way in the world that they're going to cast me in this show with Darren already attached. Like, it's just too obvious.

[4:35] Andrew: I mean, I remember like, when they had the Funny Girl of like, Beanie leaving with Jane, that people were like, Oh, why didn't we get Jane and Leah on stage together? And it's like, yeah, as much as I would love to see that.

[4:51] Jenna Ushkowitz: It's like a little too...

[4:53] Andrew: It's too weird. It's too...

[4:54] Jenna Ushkowitz: I know, I know. Especially with like, her re-emerging onto stage, like for the first time in so long, it just felt like, let her have her moment, you know?

[5:04] Andrew: Yeah. And Tova. I mean, Jane was great, but Tova as well. Yeah. Okay, amazing. Enough Broadway talk. I mean, I'm sure we'll talk more about Broadway.

[5:12] Jenna Ushkowitz: I mean, yeah, hours.

[5:13] Andrew: But I mean, you've since wrapped up your Glee watch journey.

[5:20] Jenna Ushkowitz: Really crazy.

[5:20] Andrew: Hey, how does it feel having re-watched it? Do you have a new scope of the series?

[5:26] Jenna Ushkowitz: I do. I have a new scope of the series. Again, we know my memory is really terrible. And so like, I've kind of forgotten it already. But there's like a short window of time where like, my brain opens up to it. I'm like, I remember this now. I love this part. And then like, the window shuts again. And it's like, I think it's like protection against like, the trauma.

[5:50] Jenna Ushkowitz: But I did have a different view this time around, I think having space and time away from the show. Having space and time away from watching it after all of the, you know, tragedy and all of the shit that happened. I think it gave me a new perspective on like, oh, it wasn't that bad. The end of like, the five and six of it all were actually like, very good and very fun.

[6:19] Jenna Ushkowitz: Very fun.

[6:20] Andrew: And I really enjoyed it.

[6:22] Jenna Ushkowitz: I feel as though like, yeah, the later seasons, like you think about them, and you're like, they can't be. I mean, they aren't as good as the first. However, they are like their own thing, where it's like, you guys are just like having fun, because like, it's just off the rails. And you're able to do these Katie Gaga twerking episodes. Like, it's just, it's not well.

[6:48] Andrew: Yeah, fine.

[6:48] Jenna Ushkowitz: That's the thing, though, that Ian had said, was like, this was the Glee that he always wanted to do. Like slightly unhinged, a little like, it was almost like the, we had listened, the fans had spoken in one, two and three so loudly, right? They could not be ignored, which we obviously loved. And we were doing it for the fans. But at some point, you're like, when do you like, close that off again, and just do what we were doing in the beginning in those first 22, where barely anybody saw them, and there was no noise, right? Like, and I mean, the Hurt Locker.

[7:30] Jenna Ushkowitz: I used to be a hater. I've since, I really turned a new leaf.

[7:36] Jenna Ushkowitz: Turned a new leaf. I'm a new person. After Jigsaw.

[7:39] Andrew: Jigsaw Sue. Jigsaw Sue, hey.

[7:45] Jenna Ushkowitz: It actually like, brings me a lot of joy when I think about it. Like the elevator and the tricycle. It's really, it was really well done. And I see it with new eyes now, and appreciation for the show.

[8:02] Andrew: That's great. I mean, there's always, obviously, constant talk about a Gleeboot. And I know you're probably tired of it. However, I wanted to ask you, if you were called up by Ryan, I don't even know who'd be calling. In my head, it's Ryan.

[8:14] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, it'd probably be Ryan.

[8:23] Andrew: Hey, lady. We're doing it again. How do you approach picking up Tina again? Do you go back and watch scenes back? Or where does Tina exist in you?

[8:33] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, it's a good question. I actually don't think it would be that hard.

[8:38] Andrew: You don't think so?

[8:43] Jenna Ushkowitz: No, I think it would, it's like, for such a long time after the show, going into auditions and reading for parts and meeting with casting directors, there was a lot of like unraveling that I had to do. And I think if you asked anybody else, like they would have the same kind of answer. Like, there was a lot of the pace of how we spoke. There was a lot of like the personality that we brought to it, you know, within our own characters. Like, Tina got really sassy towards the end. And so there was no filter at all. And she was just saying how everything how she wanted to, with that like very Rachel Berry intonation that Leah kind of created. And so I think it's very easy for me to drop back in to Tina.

So I don't, I don't, I would not be worried about it. I would watch, I would watch a lot of it. I think, I think it would just depend on like where the time jump was and what she was doing. And like, it's kind of like, it was kind of similar to like doing 2009. And for me, especially, I mean, all of our characters, but for me had such a big arc of like, costumes and look and vibe and personality. And so popping back into that Tina was actually like, I had to go back and watch it. I had to watch the pilot, I had to watch the first episodes and get back into the stutter Tina, goth Tina, shy Tina. So, you know, she had many versions of herself.

[10:16] Matt Stauffer: I mean, and the costuming was constantly evolving in a way that it's like, we're not even seeing really where this, I think that they called it like Go Go Dancer, kind of like 70s, like whatever, where she was dressing of really loud colors, as opposed to like, just two episodes ago, it was, you know, the spiders and all.

[10:35] Amy Henry: Yeah, it was kind of my fault, actually. Because, well, early season two, well, yeah, mid season two, like she started getting into the steampunk, you know, the lace with the belts and the things. And at some point, I'm sitting on set. And I looked at Kevin and I was like, I don't know that I can hold this up much longer. And I knew like we were going for a long time. Like I knew the show was on the train tracks. And so I was like, I don't know how much longer I'm gonna be able to hold this up. Like, every ring, every bracelet, it took time. And I was like, it's too much. So I talked to the costumer. And for the new season, she was like, I think it was season, the beginning of season three, she started like the, was that audition?

[11:18] Matt Stauffer: Yeah, yeah. Season three, The Purple Piano. Yeah. I remember the promotional picture of yours where you're wearing that black and white polka dot dress where it's like, this is a whole new girl.

[11:27] Amy Henry: Yeah, yeah. Towards the end of season two, we had a conversation with Lou. And Lou was like, I was like, can we like switch this up? Can we kind of simplify this in some way where it still makes sense for the character? She's like, let me talk to Ryan. I was thinking the same thing. Like she can't stay like this forever. And it really did kind of inform the writers too. Because obviously, they were commenting on everything that was happening on and off screen. And so to have them see Tina start to go into go, go Tina, brighter Tina, everything informed what they were writing for. So it was kind of this like, we all were listening to each other. And, you know, she was coming out of her shell and she was saying more and she was getting a little bit sassier. I was getting a little bit sassier. So it was that vibe.

[12:15] Matt Stauffer: I was gonna say the Rachel Berryfication of Tina that we got to see. I remember like watching, it was on my way, season three, middle of season three, where like everybody's in a circle saying the things that they want to do with the rest of their life. Tina says, I just want a song. And I remember like watching that 16 years old. And I was like, oh my god, they're actually acknowledging that Tina is giving jack shit on this show.

[12:45] Jenna Ushkowitz: And it's like, I was like, oh my god, they're aware of it. Which was like, and then I feel as though that was when the avalanche came, where diva Tina came out.

[12:56] Rachel Berryfication: Yes, yes, that's right.

[13:01] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, I do think that there was like, and I don't know chicken or egg, like I definitely made myself clear that I was feeling underused. I also think there was a part of it where they didn't, Tina was never fully fledged from the beginning. Like in the pilot, she was, we didn't know who she was. Well, I didn't know who she was. And we were just, we were building her.

[13:23] Matt Stauffer: The writings are on the wall with literally in the pilot, I was like, in the pilot, Finn says that the Glee Club like, okay, like Mercedes, you're gonna do costuming. Rachel, you're gonna do choreo, which is why would Rachel get choreo to begin with, but then Tina will find something for her, which I feel like that was like, kind of, it took a very long time to find that thing for Tina.

[13:49] Rachel Berryfication: Yeah, and a lot of the people like, even like to Heather's credit, like she, she created Britney Spears behind the scenes with like the bad singing and the whole thing. And it was, you know, obviously collaborative, and Ryan kind of took it and ran with it. But like, there was just this part of Tina that we never quite she didn't quite sink in until much later. And I didn't really know who she was yet. And then on top of it, like when you find out your stutter was fake in episode nine, season one, you're like, everything I thought I knew was actually not true.

[14:28] Jenna Ushkowitz: So then I had to go back and unravel that story and make something make sense. And so it was like a constant evolution of her of trying to figure out what felt the most real and also the costumes like, didn't feel like me. I've never been that and like I like putting on the character, but it wasn't matching up. And so it took a while to sync her up. And I, you know, it's nobody's fault. Like ever, there were 100 characters. Everybody's so freaking talented. Like it was everybody had their moment. And when I went back and watched it this time around, I actually did I, I'd healed enough from that.

[15:07] Jenna Ushkowitz: Those feelings. Yeah, I feel like I, I got the chance to watch it in from a place of like a fan. And was like, she did get moments, she should have gotten more. There's other characters that also should have gotten more. So like, I wasn't the one being beat down. Like, you know, I just didn't get what I wanted out of it early on. And like we talked about, just didn't quite know where she fit in. And so I was like, more forgiving towards it. And then like, she gets her moment. Oh, she she gets plenty of moment. She's winner of diva week. She gets she's prom queen. She gets into Brown.

[15:55] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, yeah. So I was much more forgiving this time around with her. But it was it was definitely a journey. Tina's always been a journey.

[16:00] Andrew: I know I think about I literally, I am not blowing smoke. I literally think about Tina probably more than any other character. Like because I think that from the beginning, like Tina was like the girl to watch for me because I'm always like when I'm watching TV or movies that I'm like, I'm always like, Okay, but what's that girl's deal? You know, and it's like, there's so much building. There's like an entire world.

[16:25] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, we're not even exploring with Tina.

[16:26] Andrew: Oh, that's so nice. That makes me feel so nice.

[16:30] Jenna Ushkowitz: I remember like watching that that Dancing with Myself when like, I feel like that's like a real like your first like full like moment where it's like, Oh, you're the apple of Artie's eye.

[16:41] Andrew: Yeah, you know, and that was a good episode for that.

[16:46] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah. And I think that episode so special and what a stand out for you and Kevin.

[16:52] Andrew: Yeah. There's also like, I think Kevin and I did feel like that. I mean, Kevin, obviously, we both had our own journeys. But like, I do feel like Kevin and I always felt like Tardy was, we didn't know that the fans didn't really like Tardy together. But they were cute for what they were. I don't think that they're together anymore, though.

[17:08] Jenna Ushkowitz: News to us, okay.

[17:10] Jenna Ushkowitz: And I think we always thought like strength in numbers for us, like we always on and off screen, but like, we always felt like the we were we shine together on screen. And that's what we clung on to.

[17:22] Andrew: Yeah. And I love it. Like, it's so evident that like, when, like Ryan and the writers like writing toward those relationships, because there's already something there that it's easy to kind of play off of.

[17:34] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that was so much fun.

[17:39] Andrew: Oh my gosh. I do have a question for you. If you could relive one day of your time on Glee. I know that I'm asking a lot of your memory right now.

[17:51] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, I know. I'm like digging. I mean, there were a lot there were a lot of really special days. One of the most unhinged days that I remember that I would like to relive was with the new cast. So it was season four.

[18:06] Andrew: Are you talking Marley? Are you talking like, yeah, Roderick?

[18:14] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay. Yeah. Season four. It was an Eric Stoltz episode. And it was a late night.

[18:22] Andrew: China or what it was.

[18:27] Jenna Ushkowitz: It might have been Beatles. No, no, no, no, no, no, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. That was too late. It was early on. Maybe it was. Was it the Eric Stoltz?

[18:36] Andrew: Eric Stoltz? He I love his episodes. So fun.

[18:45] Jenna Ushkowitz: He did a thing maybe. No, that was weird. Let's see season four. Early season four. I'm gonna here he is. Okay, makeover. Does that make sense to you?

[18:54] Andrew: He didn't makeover.

[18:56] Jenna Ushkowitz: Makeover is like, I'll say no, not a great one.

[19:04] Andrew: No. Okay, hold on. Um, he also did Guilty Pleasures.

[19:11] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay. It might have been Guilty Pleasures.

[19:14] Andrew: Okay. I'm just looking I need to see a picture. This is so sad. It might have been.

[19:22] Jenna Ushkowitz: I have the entire series list if you don't.

[19:29] Andrew: I'm just trying to remember we were watching and we were watching a performance. And we were on in the auditorium and it was Becca and Jacob and me and Kevin and we were just trying to stay awake. And we chugged a bunch of Red Bull.

[19:45] Jenna Ushkowitz: Of course, I mean so much Red Bull that we were just like, it was not we were not well and we were messing up takes and we were like messing with each other. Anyway, it really actually doesn't matter. We were just it was like one of those nights where I think finally the new cast and the OGs like clicked in a way that we hadn't before.

[20:01] Jenna Ushkowitz: And then I mean, really, if I had to relive one real day, it might have been this is like masochistic is like self Tina in props going in the fountain.

[20:22] Andrew: No, that's iconic.

[20:22] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh my gosh. I mean, I had to like actually like dump myself in the in a in a fountain, which was ridiculous. But like Ian was directing it and it was like Tina's moment and it was just really so special.

[20:39] Andrew: You got a Celine Dion song out of it.

[20:51] Jenna Ushkowitz: Hey, I mean, after like over a season of not singing come back with Celine.

[20:54] Andrew: Speaking of songs, okay, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna do the we're gonna do one competition of the Glacket today. We're gonna take a look at two songs, put them head to head with your help.

[21:04] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay.

[21:10] Andrew: And if we need a tiebreaker, we're gonna conjure Tina Cohen Chang and see what she would vote for.

[21:10] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay.

[21:10] Andrew: But I want to ask Mount Rushmore of Glee songs. I know this. I feel like so bad for asking.

[21:16] Jenna Ushkowitz: Throwing this on me.

[21:22] Andrew: I know. Over the whole series over the whole series. Is that a terrible question? We can go over it.

[21:27] Jenna Ushkowitz: So rude. No, it's okay. You just like work with me here.

[21:30] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay. Yeah, let's do this together. Do you want to do Mount Rushmore of Tina songs?

[21:32] Andrew: Oh, we could do that. Although I have more Mount Rushmore songs than that, that are not Tina songs.

[21:37] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay, I'm just pulling up my Glee seasons. Glee. Glee cast.

[21:44] Andrew: Are you on the Glee wiki?

[21:50] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh, I'm on.

[21:56] Andrew: Okay, let's see. Full series. You know, I'm gonna include some of the Tina songs, because I think that's definitely God, this is so hard. Does it only have to be four? Because famously, there are four.

[22:02] Jenna Ushkowitz: So yeah.

[22:12] Andrew: Oh, rude. Gloria.

[22:12] Jenna Ushkowitz: Gloria. Oh, the Gleeks are gonna love you for that. Great pull immediately.

[22:19] Andrew: I know this is crazy. This is like really not I don't know that everybody's gonna like me for this one.

[22:25] Jenna Ushkowitz: God, this is so hard.

[22:30] Andrew: There's so many songs. No, go ahead. This is a bonus. This is a bonus.

[22:34] Jenna Ushkowitz: Bonus. This is if there was like one more president that was listed on this, on in this, carved into this mountain.

[22:38] Andrew: Yes.

[22:46] Jenna Ushkowitz: Dark Side.

[22:54] Andrew: Dark Side, which I'll let you have. It's never done much for me, but I love that you love it.

[22:54] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay, fine. Fine.

[23:02] Jenna Ushkowitz: River Deep Mountain High.

[23:02] Andrew: Of course. Of course. Of course.

[23:08] Jenna Ushkowitz: I feel so bad. We can tap out.

[23:10] Andrew: No, no, it's okay.

[23:15] Jenna Ushkowitz: Still haven't found what I'm looking for.

[23:15] Andrew: Incredible. Incredible. You sound mama.

[23:20] Jenna Ushkowitz: Thank you. Thank you.

[23:24] Andrew: Um, do I have one more?

[23:27] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, I mean, you did say the bonus head.

[23:29] Andrew: Okay, right, right, right. She let's throw a little like, do we have a Kevin thing?

[23:34] Jenna Ushkowitz: That we can throw in there?

[23:34] Jenna Ushkowitz: I mean, obviously, I'm never going back again.

[23:39] Andrew: And there we go. Never going back again. I still haven't found what I'm looking for. River Deep Mountain High. Gloria bonus head my dark side. I mean, there's 100 other ones.

[23:42] Jenna Ushkowitz: This is really on the fly here. I'm gonna come back to you and be like, Oh, that was wrong.

[23:47] Jenna Ushkowitz: What was the Naya song that was so surprising to us this post?

[23:56] Andrew: Constant Craving.

[24:02] Jenna Ushkowitz: People aren't talking about that one enough.

[24:02] Andrew: No, it's a sleeper. It's a sleeper.

[24:09] Jenna Ushkowitz: It's good. It's like, okay.

[24:17] Andrew: All right. We both watched that and came back to that episode. And when we recapped it, we were like, wait a minute. She's cooking.

[24:28] Jenna Ushkowitz: When? So good.

[24:28] Andrew: Okay. All right.

[24:28] Andrew: Okay, we're gonna we're gonna watch a song number one we're gonna we're gonna watch we're gonna discuss and that Mount Rushmore is gonna keep me up at night by the way to see I'm gonna get a DM at 3am. I feel like I changed my mind.

[24:35] Jenna Ushkowitz: Actually, here's we're gonna put Baby Got Back on that Mount Rushmore.

[24:40] Andrew: Gold digger.

[24:40] Jenna Ushkowitz: Gold digger. No, exactly.

[24:46] Andrew: Okay, here we go.

[24:46] Andrew: Okay, song number one. You already know what it is. The song here is It's Not Right, But It's Okay.

[24:51] Jenna Ushkowitz: Can you also Honorable Mention to Diane Agron in a wheelchair?

[24:58] Andrew: Catches me by surprise constantly.

[25:03] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, okay. There's like a five span episodes where it's like, oh, okay, that's what's happening.

[25:09] Andrew: I think that is the most unhinged storyline on Glee. Come at me.

[25:15] Jenna Ushkowitz: I mean, tough competition for that one. It's Not Right, But It's Okay. What do we think of this number?

[25:21] Andrew: I don't know. It's strange. Paris directed this, I think.

[25:30] Jenna Ushkowitz: Paris did direct this episode.

[25:30] Andrew: Yeah.

[25:35] Andrew: I mean, look, Darren did the best he could with what he was given. And we love this song, obviously. It just feels very out of Glee. Like it is not a quintessential Glee song by any means.

[25:42] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh really? Okay.

[25:43] Jenna Ushkowitz: I really love.

[25:49] Andrew: You love this song?

[25:49] Jenna Ushkowitz: I think it's so fun. And I also think that it's like, I don't know if you're familiar with like, there's, there's the original version of this song, the Whitney song.

[25:54] Andrew: Yeah.

[25:58] Jenna Ushkowitz: And then they then they did like the club. It's called the Thunder Puss remix.

[26:04] Andrew: Oh my god. That's what they're doing. That's what they did. This is what they did.

[26:10] Jenna Ushkowitz: And I think that's like, oh my god, they had so much fun.

[26:16] Andrew: Okay, fair enough. No, I don't I don't mean to sell you. We can have differing opinions.

[26:23] Jenna Ushkowitz: No, no, no. But this is why we need you guys, because like, sometimes I'm just too attached to like the day or the memory or the recording or like, whatever it is that like, I remember, we were just like, what are we doing here?

[26:30] Andrew: Yeah.

[26:30] Jenna Ushkowitz: And we're like, this is just like a small snippet. We were just like showing up on stage. It was different than that. Like, I don't know. I what episode is that from?

[26:41] Andrew: This is the Whitney Tribute.

[26:41] Jenna Ushkowitz: The Whitney Tribute.

[26:41] Andrew: Yeah, in late season three. Again, let me tell you, I just not checked into that episode at all. I was not I don't know that I was even in it.

[26:47] Jenna Ushkowitz: But okay, you were there. We saw you in that before.

[26:52] Andrew: No, I know. But like, yeah, like, was I there?

[26:56] Jenna Ushkowitz: It was. It's a great. It's a great fine number. It's not one of my favorites.

[27:01] Andrew: Okay. All right. Agree to disagree.

[27:07] Jenna Ushkowitz: I feel okay. So like, Tina didn't obviously, famously didn't get a lot of songs. I'm thinking about like these tribute episodes, where it's like, I would have loved to have heard Tina on a Whitney track.

[27:19] Jenna Ushkowitz: I mean, look, I appreciate that. I also, I don't know that I want to, I don't want to take Whitney on. So I'm kind of glad because she's such a, a behemoth of a four. Like, I don't want Tina to do Greatest Love of All.

[27:34] Andrew: Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no. Let that let me I would stream straight here.

[27:40] Jenna Ushkowitz: But I, you know, like what, I, I would have loved to be on more of the trip in the tribute world. Like, yeah, really Joel was a massive Billy Joel fan. I grew up really Joel fan. And like, I was like, you guys, please, please put me in coach, please, you know, right.

[28:02] Andrew: But everybody has those feelings about these, you know, do you have a do you have a song for Billy Joel that you would have desired?

[28:08] Jenna Ushkowitz: Um, I mean, Summer Highland Falls, like I love that one.

[28:18] Andrew: These are not the best times. They're the only time I've ever known.

[28:23] Jenna Ushkowitz: I'm not the biggest Billy Joel fan. I'm gonna check it out.

[28:28] Andrew: Go listen to Moving Out though. Michael Kavanaugh does an amazing job on the musical.

[28:34] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh, I love Billy. And then I also love the musical because they do such a good job at translating that first stage. I saw that musical 1000 times. But I, you know, that's a Jenna song, though, not a Tina song, like a Tina song. And you'd be like, you know, scenes from an Italian restaurant. Like it's ridiculous. Like, she's crazy.

[28:50] Jenna Ushkowitz: But I don't know, it's it's just tough because there's so many you have to serve the story you have to serve what's going on. Tina didn't always have a storyline. So like, it was just a, it is what it is at that point. But everybody has their feelings about all this. Like, Britney.

[29:12] Andrew: Well, I think that okay, yeah, Tina didn't get anything the first time around with Britney. But the second time around, you got three you got to be a womanizer.

[29:21] Jenna Ushkowitz: That's right. Yeah, that's right. I mean, you know, good things come.

[29:21] Andrew: That's right.

[29:28] Andrew: Yeah. Um, okay, we're looking at, of course, a Blaine number, your iconic storyline, opposite Blaine, of falling in love with a gay man, which I don't know how to love him, of course.

[29:36] Jenna Ushkowitz: I mean, okay, I am I making this up that this is this is a recurring theme for for maybe past Jenna, of falling for for gay men. Correct.

[29:52] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah. So when, how did that storyline come to be?

[29:58] Jenna Ushkowitz: I told them.

[30:04] Andrew: You told them?

[30:05] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah. I grew up in the theater. It was just a well known thing. My first boyfriend was Brandon Uranowitz of Ragtime.

[30:15] Andrew: Uh-huh.

[30:15] Jenna Ushkowitz: Darling friend, wildly talented Tony award winner. Gay.

[30:26] Andrew: Clear throat. Gay.

[30:26] Jenna Ushkowitz: You know, you know, we've, we've lived that life. But it's a joke now. And obviously, like Kevin says, I am a gay man. Like we love this.

[30:33] Andrew: I you know, I also agree. I would, you know, it's like, what an honor.

[30:39] Jenna Ushkowitz: No, and I think that there's a big differentiation. I want you to really run with this, that there's a big differentiation between a straight woman that really likes to be around gay men for the wrong reasons.

[30:45] Andrew: Right, right.

[30:51] Jenna Ushkowitz: But then there are straight women like yourself, where it's like, I feel like we see each other.

[30:56] Andrew: Yeah, straight woman that gets it.

[30:59] Jenna Ushkowitz: It's a kinship.

[31:02] Andrew: Yeah.

[31:02] Jenna Ushkowitz: A kinship. And you can read it.

[31:02] Jenna Ushkowitz: I will say that like, when I was a junior in high school visiting colleges, I remember I visited Marymount Manhattan College.

[31:07] Andrew: Oh my gosh.

[31:12] Jenna Ushkowitz: And I remember one of the first things that they said on the tour was gay by May.

[31:24] Andrew: That's not what I was gonna say. I was gonna say, Jenna Ushkowitz is alumni.

[31:30] Jenna Ushkowitz: No, stop. They did say that. And I remember like, turning to my mom and I'm like, oh, really? That's so funny.

[31:37] Andrew: Tina went on the tour.

[31:37] Jenna Ushkowitz: It's part of the tour.

[31:42] Andrew: I always forget to tell you this, but I'm so glad that I remembered.

[31:47] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh, we love it.

[31:52] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, we love it was you. It was you and Melissa. They said, Melissa Benoist and Jenna Ushkowitz attended the school and I was like, this, these are all Annalie Ashford.

[32:00] Andrew: Well, I didn't have the wherewithal to know who Annalie Ashford was at the time, but yes.

[32:06] Jenna Ushkowitz: Also gay by May in our theme of, um, oh, I mean, they also, uh, I remember Ferrymount. I don't know if you were familiar with that.

[32:08] Andrew: Oh, yes, definitely.

[32:14] Jenna Ushkowitz: I did not go there, but I love the school and I had my own issues with, you know, just college in general, but I really did love Marymount.

[32:22] Jenna Ushkowitz: And, um, I, uh, it, it, it further, um, propelled my love for gay men.

[32:32] Andrew: I mean, you have, I got brought a guy to prom that I dated and in weird long distance relationship from, from Florida, New York, he came to prom. He's gay.

[32:40] Jenna Ushkowitz: Uh-huh.

[32:40] Jenna Ushkowitz: And so then they were just like, I feel like I just, we see each other like you said, and they feel seen. And so it's a comfortable place to be.

[32:53] Andrew: You take pride in that.

[32:53] Jenna Ushkowitz: We gladly accept you.

[32:59] Andrew: Wait, so you literally were just like, Hey, I want you to have this storyline for Tino.

[33:06] Jenna Ushkowitz: No, I did not give this story. I told them this, you know, everybody knew everything about everybody. The writers were friends. And so this was something that we shared with them as it was just kind of widely known.

[33:20] Jenna Ushkowitz: And, and they were like, well, I think we're going to write that Tina falls in the blame because it did feel appropriate for Tina. Like I don't feel like this was out of left field that she would fall in love with. She's just completely unhinged in all the ways.

[33:30] Andrew: And so, um, and never like fully seeing the real reality. Like, I think she's just slightly off in that way. Like she's not completely Delulu, but she's just like slightly elevated Delulu.

[33:42] Jenna Ushkowitz: She's a theater girl. It gotta be a little bit Delulu.

[33:49] Andrew: Exactly. Exactly.

[33:49] Andrew: So, okay. Up against, it's not right, but it's okay. We got another heavy hitter.

[34:02] Jenna Ushkowitz: Well, I mean, you really didn't like the first one that much. So who's to say, um, here we go. The song here is I Dreamed a Dream.

[34:16] Jenna Ushkowitz: Just so just it's great. It's also like so stupid. You know what I mean?

[34:26] Andrew: That's the thing.

[34:26] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah.

[34:35] Andrew: I mean, okay. Idina and Leah, like we always like, are you guys related?

[34:39] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[34:44] Andrew: Then she comes on the show. Idina Menzel comes on the show.

[34:44] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh, of course.

[34:44] Andrew: And then we're doing Les Mis on a show where millions of people watch and you're like, when do you get to give Les Mis to millions of people who would never have ingested this kind of music?

[35:01] Jenna Ushkowitz: Sure. Yeah.

[35:01] Andrew: And that they're Jesse St. James is involved, like, Croft, like, it's a little meta.

[35:07] Jenna Ushkowitz: And then also, like, I was watching that. And I was like, if, if I were just a fan that was not a part of this show, and I was just watching this show for the first time, and I saw that, like, little Jenna would be screaming.

[35:18] Andrew: Well, I mean, like, okay, how old were you in season one?

[35:25] Jenna Ushkowitz: 23.

[35:25] Andrew: 23. Yeah, it's like, great. Like, I can't even imagine like, going from Marymount. Right. Being in the theater world and just being like, there are group shots of like, Idina Menzel is just like, kind of like a, an extra. You know what I mean? It's like, that's crazy. What's she doing back there?

[35:37] Jenna Ushkowitz: What's Idina doing? She's just casually just, she doesn't have a single line in the scene.

[35:44] Andrew: It's insane.

[35:44] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, but it's so it's, it's crazy, but it's so good.

[35:54] Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

[35:54] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh my gosh. I mean, just perfect. Leah, who you started all out together.

[36:02] Andrew: Yes. Yes. What year? What? How old were you when you first met?

[36:10] Jenna Ushkowitz: Probably 10. Both. Are you the same age?

[36:16] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah, we're the same age.

[36:20] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay. And we were probably around 10. When we met, we were both on Broadway at the same time. She was in Les Mis, I was in The King and I, and we knew each other.

[36:26] Jenna Ushkowitz: And then we knew each other through Brandon, my first boyfriend, because he was in Ragtime with Leah prior to like, I think before that.

[36:34] Andrew: Uh-huh.

[36:34] Jenna Ushkowitz: And maybe, maybe after that, maybe it was Les Mis and then she did Ragtime. But anyway, we, we all knew each other. And then when Spring Awakening came, I had a very last minute audition because Lily Cooper, I was originally auditioning for the national tour, I'd seen the show on Broadway, I was like, I didn't even think in my mind, like, Oh, I gotta audition for that show.

[37:01] Jenna Ushkowitz: Right. And then I auditioned for the national tour. I didn't get it. I was devastated. I was down to the last group. And they're like, we'd love to hold you for a future Broadway replacement. Now anybody in the theater knows a future Broadway replacement means like you're never getting a job with the show.

[37:17] Jenna Ushkowitz: But lo and behold, I got a call a very last minute call at the beginning of the year in 2008. And they had said, Lily Cooper has to go on vacation because she has to go do a show at LaGuardia in order to graduate high school. She was in high school at the time she was in England doing Spring Awakening. So she was leaving for two weeks like we need a replacement starting like tomorrow.

[37:38] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah. Can you come in between shows and read so I read with Remy Zakin in between shows. I sang for the producers. And then I got a it was the weekend and they couldn't get in touch with me that I had gotten the job. So our agents were the same and they called Leah and they're like, Do you know Jenna?

[38:04] Jenna Ushkowitz: I don't know. So your Spring Awakening was like, Leah, we know you know Jenna. And we know you have the same agents. Can you call her and tell her?

[38:13] Andrew: So Leah called my agents, my agents called me and they were like, we got it. We got her.

[38:19] Jenna Ushkowitz: So anyway, that the long story short. Yes, we and then very shortly after that, she was like, I'm going to do Les Mis at the Hollywood Bowl. And then got Rachel Berry.

[38:33] Andrew: I had heard she had gotten it, but didn't tell her about it. And then I went on my journey for Glee, got it and called her and was like, I think I'm going to LA.

[38:39] Jenna Ushkowitz: You guys keep on following each other.

[38:44] Andrew: Yeah, yeah, I essentially am following her. But yeah, you are.

[38:50] Jenna Ushkowitz: I mean, it really warmed my heart. I'm not sure if you saw the Jake Shane episode with me.

[39:01] Andrew: Yeah.

[39:05] Jenna Ushkowitz: But she shared a really sweet story about you and her together on tour, talking about singing Empire State of Mind. I'm not sure if you saw that.

[39:08] Andrew: Yes, I did see that actually.

[39:10] Jenna Ushkowitz: And that warmed my heart as well.

[39:15] Jenna Ushkowitz: It was nice to hear talking about Glee because she doesn't talk about it all that much in public.

[39:20] Jenna Ushkowitz: And so we were in New York. It was like so special. The tour was just a whole other thing on its own, which we know at this point, but to come back to our hometowns, our families being there, both big Yankee fans, our families growing up in the city together, coming home and being like, wow, this is our home turf and being able to do Empire State of Mind with everybody in the audience.

[39:43] Jenna Ushkowitz: My brother's a massive Yankee fan. And so it was a really cool, those touch points and moments throughout these very hard, challenging times where you don't always, your feet aren't always on the ground, like tour of being like, just get me home.

[40:01] Jenna Ushkowitz: We were in London and all the girls were crying. Kevin came into the dressing room. We're like, I just want to go home. He's always had the right perspective on these kinds of things where it's like, guys, we're on tour. We've sold out the O2. We'll never do this again. This is amazing.

[40:19] Jenna Ushkowitz: And to have people like Kevin was really helpful. But also then to have these moments where you go home and you get to do the show for your family with Yankee hats on, doing Empire State of Mind in New York. And you're like, oh, right. This is a really cool touch point for me to put my feet back on the ground and realize how special this actually is.

[40:40] Andrew: Crazy.

[40:40] Andrew: Yeah. And it's insane now that I am older than you guys were at the time to have that wherewithal to be like, you guys were checking things off at such a young age, too, that you were global sensations, that you were with Oprah, you were with Obama, you were O2, the big three O's, I guess. You were doing all these things that's just like making these really hard decisions for yourself as well, which is I don't envy that part at all.

[41:04] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah.

[41:04] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yeah. It's a lot to navigate for somebody at that young age. It's such a formative time. And then also navigating it publicly and just not equipped to know how to do any of these things. Nobody gives you a handbook and is like, here's how to handle fame and handle all the people around you and how to appreciate it and keep your feet on the ground and do all the things and do the work at the same time and be grateful for it and happy every day and treat everybody kindly and nicely.

[41:46] Andrew: Like, it's important.

[41:46] Jenna Ushkowitz: Like, you know, you walk in like on set, you're having a bad day, like you don't want the crew to be like, oh, they're, you know, they're pissed or, you know, whatever. Like, it's like, we're just having bad days where we see each other every single day. So like, sure, everybody has bad days. Inevitably, that's going to happen. But like, you just want to make sure that everybody it's like navigating all that. It's hard.

[42:06] Andrew: Yeah.

[42:12] Jenna Ushkowitz: But anyway, it was again, it's like just having the podcast to do this and to talk about it and look back on it and reflect on it. It's just been such a healing experience for us as adults to do that and close these chapters, open other ones, reconnect with people, you know, heal. It's been really lovely.

[42:32] Andrew: No, it's been really great from an audience perspective as well that it's like, obviously, I was at such an impressionable age when it was on that it meant the absolute world to me. I wouldn't be talking about it right now if it didn't make that impact.

[42:42] Jenna Ushkowitz: Right.

[42:47] Andrew: But yeah, and like, here I am watching it. And it's like, I'm watching I Dreamed a Dream and I'm crying when I'm like 16. But like now I'm able to be like, wait, let's actually this is actually fucking ridiculous.

[42:56] Jenna Ushkowitz: Like the fact like this entire plot line is so stupid. There's so many like layers to this show that is so much fun to unpack. And so yeah, you can always say that you were part of part of that.

[43:07] Andrew: Yeah, part of the satire.

[43:12] Andrew: Anyway, I'm bringing it back to this competition with it's not right, but it's okay versus I Dreamed a Dream.

[43:20] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh my god, what are you voting for? More importantly, what is Tina voting for?

[43:32] Jenna Ushkowitz: I am Jenna is voting for I Dreamed a Dream.

[43:37] Andrew: Okay. And Tina?

[43:40] Jenna Ushkowitz: It's not right, but it's okay.

[43:46] Andrew: Okay, and so then I will be the tiebreaker here.

[43:50] Andrew: And you already know what I'm gonna do.

[43:58] Jenna Ushkowitz: I know what you're gonna do.

[43:58] Andrew: I'm so sorry, Jenna, but Tina and I are seeing eye to eye.

[44:04] Andrew: Oh, it's not right, but it's okay gets my vote. And we're will therefore go forward on the clacket.

[44:11] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh my gosh, who knew? I would have never guessed that.

[44:19] Andrew: And here we are.

[44:19] Jenna Ushkowitz: Here we are. It's moving forward. Jenna, thank you so much. This has been a delightful episode.

[44:25] Jenna Ushkowitz: Yes. Thank you so much for joining me.

[44:29] Jenna Ushkowitz: My pleasure. What an honor to be top of 2026.

[44:33] Andrew: Crazy question. What do we want to leave the Gleeks with in 2026?

[44:40] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay, I'm not gonna say it for myself.

[44:46] Jenna Ushkowitz: No, I'm not gonna say for myself, even though I hope for it. I'm gonna leave everybody else with calm. I'm leaving everybody with calm 2026.

[44:52] Andrew: Hey, hey, I'm reading between the lines. Jenna knows about a Glee boot that has not yet been announced.

[44:58] Jenna Ushkowitz: She don't you dare put words in my mouth and she okay, a page six. I hope you're listening. Because this this is an announcement.

[45:04] Andrew: And also, I think that, you know, on a, on a, you know, smaller scale, we do need Jenna, you as a guest host, to be a part of this.

[45:10] Jenna Ushkowitz: You know, smaller scale, we do need Jenna, you as a guest speller, like, tomorrow.

[45:15] Andrew: Oh, yeah, we're working on it. We're working.

[45:20] Jenna Ushkowitz: Oh, I will not be going without seeing Kevin McHale on stage for the first time in New York.

[45:27] Andrew: I we're working on it. So okay, so wait, so you will you will not be just a full like audience member you are and talks you would want to be a guest speller.

[45:35] Jenna Ushkowitz: I think Kevin has some pull there. So if I'm coming to see him, I'm pretty sure there will be a moment.

[45:40] Andrew: Okay, I can't see that not happening with Kevin. I don't think he would let it happen.

[45:45] Jenna Ushkowitz: So we'll need a heads up.

[45:48] Andrew: I will. Okay, I'll give you one.

[45:51] Jenna Ushkowitz: I'll give you one.

[45:51] Andrew: Thank you so much.

[45:53] Jenna Ushkowitz: Okay. Well, thank you again, Jenna. I will see you next time.

[45:58] Jenna Ushkowitz: Thank you so much.