This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jeff Malone: Welcome to Half Hour with Jeff & Richie, the podcast where we explore the latest shows we see, sharing our insights and opinions on the performances, storylines, and everything in between. In today's episode, we discuss the new Broadway musical, Illinois. Whether you cannot catch the show in person or you want to expand your thoughts after seeing it, this episode is for you. And as always, we want to inform you that this episode will contain spoilers. So, if you're ready to dive into this production, stick around with us. I'm Jeff.

[0:28] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie. We're thrilled to be your hosts for today's episode. But before we start the conversation about Illinois, a few words from our advertisers. Half Hour.

[0:43] Jeff Malone: Welcome, everyone, to a new episode of Half Hour with Jeff & Richie. Today, we're discussing the new musical, Illinois. Based on the landmark Sufjan Stevens album, Illinois springs to epic life on stage, as the Washington Post says, in a mysterious, deeply moving, and unforgettable dance musical, as the New York Times says, directed and choreographed by Tony Award winner Justin Peck. Peck and Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright Jackie Siblai's Drury have crafted an original coming-of-age story that takes the audience on a journey through the American heartland, from campfire storytelling to the edge of the cosmos, all told through a unique blend of live music, dance, and theater.

[1:22] So, as always, we're going to start with our bold statement about this piece, and then see how that unfolds into our discussion. So, my bold statement is that Illinois is the musical masterpiece that Broadway has been craving, and will stir all, and definitely stirred my, emotions completely.

[1:43] Richie Grasso: Hmm. I will say, as my statement, that in a very meh and on-the-fence and oversaturated Broadway season, this is an incredible, brilliant, gorgeous new musical that is exactly what the Broadway season needed, and will, I think, definitely win the Tony Award for Best Musical in 2024. 100%.

[2:07] Jeff Malone: So, dive in time. Diving in. Here we go. So, let's talk just overall plot and concept here. What a concept this is. Oh my god, it's just amazing. And you and I went in really blind. I didn't know Sufjan's album. I mean, I think you said you knew one or two songs before?

[2:29] Richie Grasso: I did know one or two songs. I didn't know the album. The album came out in 2005, so it was definitely a little bit ahead of my time before I was starting to move into that alternative concept music space. I was still definitely blasting Britney Spears at that time.

[2:48] But listening to this, these are the kinds of albums that really inspire me, because there's so much storytelling that happens in these lyrics that someone, you know, says, oh, this belongs on the stage. And hello, yes, it does. I mean, I went in completely blind. This is a very, very late, last-minute addition to this season. I wanted to kind of know nothing about it. I had heard that there was really no dialogue, that it's a dance piece, it's music heavy. And I'm like, okay, cool. Like, fine. We go in, and I was just really captured. I was on the journey for nine minutes. I never once looked around. I never once yawned. I never once looked at my watch. I was in it. I was like, clicked into the rollercoaster and set off on the track.

[3:42] And I really, I'm not trying to be dramatic when I felt like I sat in that theatre for ten minutes. I feel like I was in there for ten minutes. It flew by. I was feeling every emotion. I was with them. I was just with them. Usually in a lot of theatre, I'm either ahead, I'm like three scenes ahead, or I'm three scenes behind. And I'm like, okay, well, we gotta pick this up. Or like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? This was just, I was with them. And to see the band up there, to see the dancers moving the way that they were, I understood the story fully. I knew exactly what was going on, or what I thought my interpretation was, at least.

[4:20] I felt things. And I know that we talk about this all the time, like, do you need to feel something every time you go to theatre? To me, I think you do. I think you need to feel extreme comedy, and laughter, and happiness. I think you need to feel extreme sadness. I think you need to feel anger. I think you need to feel joy. There's so many things that theatre can make you feel.

[4:40] Richie Grasso: Not every show is going to have all of those things, but they're going to have at least one of them.

[4:44] Jeff Malone: But this one had it all. I'm really not just saying that. I really was joyous when they were joyous. I was heartbroken when they were heartbroken. I was with them. I couldn't believe what I was witnessing, and what I was watching on stage. And I said to myself, oh my god, this is the future of Broadway. This is the future. This is not what every Broadway show needs to be, necessarily. But this is what the future of Broadway needs to be right now. Because in this movie to musical, movie to musical, revival, revival, revival, re-adaptation, this was this gorgeous breath of fresh air that came in.

[5:27] I'm being so dramatic in the way I'm describing this, but I just feel like I took a breath of fresh air. We saw this on a beautiful day, and it was just the audience was living, and the performers were living. And I'm like, spring has sprung, and here we are.

[5:35] It really is making theater feel alive for us, I think. Because in a season that has so much, which really is making theater alive, but this one made it feel alive, all capital letters. Like, just even from walking into the space, and you see this beautiful set, and you're already starting to wonder what's going to happen. Like, you can tell that the band's on stage. You see this beautiful lighting. It sounds like a forest. There's these trees hanging upside down in the world, like your world is upside down. And as it slowly goes down, and the show starts, and they come out, and you start realizing who Henry is, who's like the main character here, and what's happening in his life.

[6:25] You kind of don't know at first. You kind of look around, and you're like, all right, am I going to buy this? And then as they slowly, the rest come out, the rest of the ensemble here, and we see that this is in this campfire-y kind of setting, which also almost feels like a meeting area for people with trauma that need to talk about their past. And it's just like, it's great in terms of how often do we hear stories from people, and you either want to be able to share your story with someone, or there are other people that are there to listen to you.

[7:04] And that, to me, is the heart of this whole piece here. It makes you look at something as well. You want to be heard, but you also want to hear everyone else around you. And that's why we see the main character in the beginning leave someone, go to this campfire setting, and then we start hearing the stories. And theater is story, right? And we're hearing the stories, and I'm hearing one character's story, and then there's a dance moment. I'm hearing another character's story, and in the support of the others supporting these stories, I say, oh, something's a little political here, or something's emotional, and we're feeling things.

[7:39] And I'm like, oh, we're kind of getting a little bit of a chorus line-esque feel of now your story, and what's your story? We're all here together, but we all have different stories. And then there was this beautiful concept vision of we're all humans, so there was this wonderful representation of different races, different genders, but we're all together as human beings telling our story. And the band is almost looming above them, the singers and the band as this ambient upside down trees hanging above them, and we're looming, and yet we're feeling, and we're seeing, we're there.

[8:15] You have to be there with them. If you're sitting there not with them, I don't know where you're at at the St. James Theater if you're not with them the whole time, because I was just there with them. I followed the stories. I thought the concept of this flowed effortlessly through dance, and I didn't want it to end.

[8:36] But a big thing that you like to say a lot is when a creative team either does trust their audience or doesn't trust their audience. And what I'm looking at here is like this could have gone in two different ways. People could have saw this and said, what are they doing? They're being too much. It's too avant-garde. Like, no, pass. But this creative team looks at this, and they say, no, we're going to trust the audience and let them come fully on this journey with us.

[9:07] And you could feel it. You really could feel what every single one of those dancers was doing up on that stage, because they weren't just dancing. They were acting as well.

[9:19] Richie Grasso: It would, and this whole piece is unlike anything on the stage right now, on the mainstream stage anyway. It's unlike-

[9:24] Jeff Malone: And something that hasn't been on the stage in a really long time.

[9:29] Richie Grasso: What was the last time we had a fully fleshed out, visualized dance piece with a book?

[9:36] Jeff Malone: Right. And there is a book here. And I think what people realize is, yes, you can have a book and not have dialogue. A book has to tell characters. It has to tell setting, locale, character, the stories of all the characters, in what order are we telling the stories of the characters? There's a book. Of course, there's a whole concept, right?

[9:53] And how many shows have I seen this season where I've said, oh, filler book scene, filler. Oh, we couldn't trim that down. Oh, not here. You understand? Not here. This was, everything was needed and warranted here in the 90 minutes.

[10:08] Jeff Malone: Which I think is a perfect segue into the director character performances and design. But before we do that, we're going to have a few messages from those that make this show possible.

[10:17] Richie Grasso: Alrighty, let's get back into here. Character performances, direction, design.

[10:24] Jeff Malone: Well, this was clearly a piece where all these designers and directors and choreographers, everyone's working together. As soon as we left there, I said to you, well, Justin Peck directed and choreographed this. And you can tell that his staging works. The choreography is next level. I mean, hello, it's winning the Tony Award. I know we're going to do our Tony predictions at the end of this, but I'm sorry, everyone. This is winning the Tony Award for Best Choreography, hands down.

[10:56] Richie Grasso: But a big thing that I really enjoyed, and when I was looking through the playbill after, is he brought in his lighting designer, Brandon Sterling Baker. I looked in there and it said that they had worked on over 30 productions together. And that is where you can say, hello, you can tell it is perfect. And when we are lighting dancers, we know how to light a dancer, because there are so many times where you look at lighting design, and there are dancers over here, and it's pitch black on them, and you don't even know what's happening on them.

[11:37] Jeff Malone: And I don't think that's by choice. They just don't know how to light them. And this, everyone was lit so well.

[11:45] Richie Grasso: Totally. Even to the point of the glowing orb balls that they had lit, and that movement of those, right? It was gorgeous to look at. And when you talk about audience being captivated, I could hear a pin drop in that theater. And the St. James is a big theater. You were just there with them. These dancers make it look so effortless. They are so good at what they do. Justin, Justin, Justin. I mean, let's just talk about Justin. Justin Peck is a master. He is a master at his craft. We will keep seeing more things from him. He knows exactly what he's doing.

[12:26] Jeff Malone: Not to mention, Sufjan's gorgeous lyric and melody, and orchestral music. We're hearing electronic, we're hearing orchestral. And while we're talking about the music, we have to talk about the arrangements and orchestrations that Timo Andres came in and brought here, because that was some of the most beautiful orchestrations that I've heard on a Broadway stage in a really long time.

[12:52] Richie Grasso: I feel like there was a 40-piece orchestra up there. And it was orchestral, but it was also like rock, and it was a little bit of modern electronic synth sound, but then it was also this gorgeous flute and violin and acoustic piano, acoustic guitar. It was just stunning to hear it hybrid together like that. That's where my emotions were coming from, too. Of course, it was the dancers on stage and what they were doing. But to hear the sounds of the vocalists, to hear the instrumental, it all was woven perfectly together. And I'm like, I'm with it. I'm here. I'm here. I was so there with them.

[13:27] Jeff Malone: And all of it was done on this beautiful, scenic, designed stage by Adam Rigg. I mean, to bring this foresty, new wave-looking style stage around here, and we have these beautiful dancers dancing around the stage, and the lighting also telling the story with these performers on the stage. Anytime a scene was going on, you knew exactly where it was. You didn't have to have a skyscape of New York City come out. All it was was a piece of lighting had to just shine on the word New York City, and you knew you were there.

[14:10] Richie Grasso: And the projection on the billboard would change to show the different characters' story you were telling. Yeah, for sure.

[14:16] Jeff Malone: Or another sticker that says, middle of nowhere, and you were like, oh, we don't even know where they are. Where are they? Where are they going? And it kind of leads to some of these, like, listen, everyone stood out to me in this show. I don't think you could look at any single one of those dancers on the stage, and I would watch some of them. I would pick one for, like, five minutes, and I would just watch what that one was doing during the stage, when they were on the stage, and not just whoever the main, you know, focal point was, because there was so much going on there.

[14:49] Richie Grasso: And they all were not doing the same moves, which makes it even more choreographed than half the things that we are seeing on a Broadway stage right now. But there were some people that really did stand out for me, and I think, like, Ricky Ubeda, who's playing Henry, I mean, the emotion. The emotion. There's a scene with him. Listen, I don't cry in musicals. I'm bawling at this point, in this musical, when he is talking about his love life. And, like, I don't want to ruin it here. I know we talk about spoilers, but, like, that is just the moment, and that is the moment of the Broadway season right there.

[15:30] Jeff Malone: Well, and to me, when he's with his partner, and it looked like he had a nightmare at some point, and they're just on the floor dancing, and then there was a moment where him and his partner are holding each other, and they're breathing, and they're stepping side by side, and I think they're almost making a box on stage, and they're breathing, and they're holding each other, and they're emotions. And then, the chord progressions of the orchestral, it's all coming together. That's when the tears started flowing for me, and I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I'm feeling so much for these people right now. Not to mention, there's this beautiful, it's a beautiful gay love story, too, to have the LGBTQ representation on the stage, to have the music working so well in this moment.

[16:09] Richie Grasso: There's moments, I don't think I breathed for the last 20 minutes. I was like, I think at one point, I realized my mouth was open, and my jaw, I was like, I just had my mouth open for a little bit. I was like, oh my gosh, my mouth is just like, in awe, literally jaw open, watching what's happening. I was fully taken in it.

[16:26] Jeff Malone: But that's when you can feel something, because there was even a moment for me, I just felt tears coming down my face. I wasn't even crying at a certain point, because some parts were just so beautiful, they were making you cry. It wasn't even about they were sad. There were sad parts, but there were just some parts that were like, this is beautiful. I think it was the second song, I was already like, alright, I'm just going to cry the whole time during this show.

[16:53] Richie Grasso: All the emotions there, but what were you going to say?

[16:57] Jeff Malone: But what I was going to say is, I always think that some of the best new works that either win the Tony Award for Best Musical, or just really...

[17:05] Richie Grasso: Okay, what I was going to say is here, I think for some of the musicals that either win the Tony Award for Best New Musical, or just are just wonderful new works on the stage, I always, when I see what's going on, and they get rave reviews on it, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is beautiful. They are learning what came before, and they are ticking, and then they are pushing it forward into the future. You can't tell me that there are not elements of musical theatre before that are working here.

[17:50] Jeff Malone: I see a little bit of Chorus Line, I see a little bit of Rent, I see a little bit of Ballad, of Golden Age Musical Theatre, I see Ballet, I see so much, a little West Side Story, as I'm watching, I'm seeing, oh my gosh, all these musicals that are so successful that came before. And then I'm like, nope, but it's not being them, it's not copying them, it's making it its own. It's learning from the past to create for the future. And sometimes I think that writing a musical in so many people's eyes is like, oh, we need a song here, we need a scene there, we need a book scene there.

[18:26] Richie Grasso: And it's just, like you say, the checkbox musical, check the box, put a number there, instead of just, no, create from the emotion, create from the sense of I am creating something that I need to feel, that I want audiences to feel, and that I can learn from what came before me.

[18:44] Jeff Malone: Listen, I'm going to tell you something right now, this art form is not that old. Musical theatre is not even 100 years old. It's about 100 years old. The Tony Awards are not 100 years old yet, we're at 77 years. Compared to opera, compared to drama, compared to music, why can't we have a musical like this on the stage?

[19:06] Richie Grasso: You know, when people say, oh, but there's no script, oh, there's no dialogue. We can keep reinventing this art form, and we should. We totally should. Why wouldn't we be constantly trying to recreate and reinvigorate, instead of, oh, well, this is how they did musicals for 75 years, so I guess we should just keep following the, put a ballad at the end of act one, put a dance number here, put a scene there. Why? Why do we have to follow, yes, that works for many shows, don't get me wrong. Everyone's going to say whatever they want to say about this. They'll try to classify it as something else, because it's not their traditional format. At the end of the day, there's music, there are lyrics, there is a book, whether someone wants to say it or not, there is one, because there's a full story that I followed happening on that stage.

[19:54] Jeff Malone: And what was nice is that-

[19:55] Richie Grasso: And there is acting. They're not speak acting, but they're acting. I got more facial expressions from people that are dancing their tails off, and I knew the emotions that they were feeling from their faces.

[20:14] Richie Grasso: Tired from dancing. They were telling me I'm sad. Or they were telling me I'm interested in what that person is doing over there. Or I'm angry. Or I'm confused. You knew every emotion. And that's what you're supposed to feel from theatre.

[20:36] Jeff Malone: So you know you get this journal in the Playbill, Henry's journal, journal text by Jackie. Jackie wrote the book, wrote the journal text. So you almost wonder was the journal text written and then they created the piece from that? Or was it written in hybrid at the same time? That was something I would love to interview Jackie and Justin on and talk to them about. I would love to talk to them. I really would. Before we move on to a little bit more of just our experiences with the journal and the show and Tony's predictions for this in general, let's first hear a few messages from our sponsors.

[21:10] Richie Grasso: Okay, so we're talking, I mean we're on a high, right? We're just living. By the way, we saw this right before Tony nomination, so we're going to talk about Tony predictions here. By the time everyone's listening to this, the Tony nominations will already be out. But we're just going to give our thoughts on this. I think this is going to be Tony nominated for almost every category. And I think it's probably not going to get much in the actor categories because that's going to probably go traditional. But other than that, yeah, musical, score, choreography, scenic design, lighting. I mean, maybe not costumes because it's... Although it could be nominated. Yeah, I think it could get a Best Director nomination.

I think the direction of this and the concept was great, but there's a lot of good direction happening this season. But for choreo, for sure. Best musical, for sure. I mean, yeah. And at the end of the day, he did. He directed moments on that stage through choreography, but also like dancing's happening. And there are still performers coming on at moments like we have ghostly figures coming in that stage that was directed beautifully because he gave us the moments that you always say you want.

[22:17] Jeff Malone: Yes, I always feel like, oh, why didn't that character come back? And then what happens at the end? That character came back at the end above on the bridge. I was like, oh my God, I was like, this is just everything. I just felt like I was transported. And then when I read this journal on the train home and I'm reading this journal, like, oh, wait. Yeah, I felt that. Or then I'm reading it like, oh, I didn't look at that like that. That's so cool. This journal insert that they give you in the Playbill is everything to me. And it's heartbreaking. It's tragedy in a way. I found it to be quite tragic. I actually find a lot of things that come across as like comedy or musical theater or like, oh, joyous.

Yes, there's, of course, joy. But like I always say, I think Merrily We Roll Along is tragedy. I do. I think that's such a tragic piece in a way. So I look at this and I say, oh my gosh, Illinois, what tragic moments of heart. But human souls, life, emotions that we go through in our daily life and with family, with friends, with loved ones.

[23:19] Richie Grasso: Oh, the journey and the incorporation of those vocalists with the wings was very cool. I like how we kind of highlighted them and they were lit well so that we could see them and they were equally present throughout this because those vocalists were gorgeously stunning, too. Well, I also like how they were tied into the performers on the stage because when they were the voice for the performers that you can look at them, they were connected. Sometimes they would have eye contact moments and you were like, oh, and they would be so grateful that they were the voice for them, that they were singing those words that we were all feeling. It's interesting because this show played off Broadway very recently in a short run in March, and now we're only in the first week of it on Broadway.

And I could name multiple people that have said, oh, I already have my ticket for the second time. I have my ticket for the third time. I know someone who's going for the fourth time this week. I know people who, and everyone said, oh, I'm going back. I have to go back. I have to go back in June. I have to go back in July or August. I think it's only playing until August, but for now, I'm sure this will, I know that this theater is booked with Sunset Boulevard coming in in the fall.

[24:41] Jeff Malone: I would hope that this goes somewhere to another theater after, I mean, for more audience to see it, especially if it wins the Tony Award. That was one thing I was going to kind of say to you, like, from a business perspective, because, you know, we always have to talk a little bit about the business side of Broadway, but do you think that this is a great promo for them to potentially win the Tony Award, which I think it's happening, but that they can go live and do a very long sit down off Broadway somewhere? Part of me thinks it would go to a smaller Broadway house for a little while first, and maybe go another six months or so, and then go to an off Broadway house. Regardless, it needs to go sit somewhere after the St. James because I think, I actually think the St. James is a beautiful theater.

It works in a big space. It could also work amazing in a smaller Broadway house too. The Helen Hayes Theater, the Booth Theater, some of these smaller theaters, for sure. But it has to live on past August. I mean, it has to. It's too joyous and gorgeous and human. We are dealing with really crazy times in the world right now. We need a piece like this to feel all the emotions that we can feel at that stage.

[26:00] Richie Grasso: I feel like I'm starting to create my perfect new world stages selection of shows that should just go on and live there. And I think that this, as we know, it is closing at the St. James in August, as of now. But right now, my list is like, hey, get Dead Outlaw there right now, so that it can live there. Get Teeth over there after Sunday, because actually today, I think Teeth is closing. Correct. Get Teeth over there, so it could live there. And then it would be this show. And you would have three very lovely, groundbreaking musicals playing at new world stages. And let me tell you, New World Stages would be thriving if it had those three musicals playing there at the same time. Regardless, I think that it needs to live on.

I think people really need to go see this. I think this is going to be a hot ticket if it wins all these Tony Awards. People really need to get there now. I know it just started. It didn't have the four weeks of previews like so many shows have had. It really didn't. It just opened right under the radar, got right in for the cutoff date for Tony Award eligibility. And smart producers, smart producers there, getting this in this season.

[27:05] Jeff Malone: This was the season to get it in. They probably were just like, let's do it. There's nothing on Broadway like this right now. Why wouldn't they? It's not like it's a movie to book to whatever stage adaptation. And they also were probably seeing a lot of the other musicals in the category and how everyone was just giving them mediocre reviews. So I would still say Outsiders is my other contender up against it. But there was just something a little bit more about this one that just got me feeling a little extra for it. Because, listen, that fight choreo still in Outsiders is some of the best choreo I saw all year. So both of these though are storytelling through music. So bravo.

[27:53] Richie Grasso: You don't mean that the step touch, step touch choreo in Back to the Future is Tony winning, Jeff?

[28:04] Jeff Malone: Don't bring that up on this podcast. I'm sorry. I'm only about the good ones. I just, I mean, down the street, a million dollars a week, Back to the Future is still pumping through. And if you really want to know my thoughts on that, go listen to that episode. But Back to the Illinois, I know we're good here. I'm not saying all choreo in Back to the Future is step touch, step touch, but there's a lot of step touch, step touch, but anyway.

[28:30] Richie Grasso: Oh my gosh. I could talk about Illinois for a whole nother half hour, but we do need to wrap up. So final thoughts on Illinois on Broadway, Jeff, go.

[28:34] Jeff Malone: Run, just run and see this show because it's going to win the Tony Award. And we're going to see on Tuesday, all of the nominations are coming out. Well, I don't, you know, this will be in, this will be in the past. So forget what I'm saying now. We'll already know the Tony nominations and you can all come and tell me if it doesn't get the Tony nominations would be the biggest nub of the year. Yeah. So go and see this show immediately. I think it's one of the best things this season. This is definitely one of the best things this season. I was, I was in it for 90 minutes feeling emotions and connecting and living as a human being in 2024 in these crazy times. I was feeling everything I need to feel in the theater and it's amazing, amazing theater.

And it deserves, it's a, it's a, it's a masterpiece and it deserves, it deserves everything. It's going to get all the, all the awards and the accolades. Everyone, yes, please go check it out. And listen, I went in blind. I never knew the music. I didn't know anything about it. I would recommend that. Don't do all, don't try to research a ton on it. Just go in and soak it in, you know, for what it's worth.

[29:50] Richie Grasso: For sure. For sure. That does a wrap up our discussion on today's episode. We hope you enjoyed our deep dive into Illinois and we will share the link here with ticket information in the description of this episode. And don't forget, we want to hear from you. Continue the conversation with us on Instagram at half hour podcast and let us know your thoughts on Illinois. And if you want to, if you enjoyed our show, please leave us a review. Your feedback helps us bring more theater to you. Remember you can listen to past episodes and stay tuned for many more upcoming ones as well. Until next time I'm Jeff and I'm Richie saying ta ta for now. Bye.