This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jimi: I learned a new word the other day.

[0:02] Tommy: Tell me.

[0:03] Jimi: Crapulist. As in you are a? You are feeling very crapulous.

[0:08] Tommy: Crapulous means hungover, feeling ill because of alcohol.

[0:12] Jimi: Oh. But was the word that was in use long before hungover even entered the vocabulary?

[0:15] Tommy: Well, there you go. Why did it ever leave?

[0:18] Jimi: I know, because it's just crap.

[0:20] Tommy: Is that where crap comes from?

[0:22] Jimi: No, it has actually nothing to do with crap. It's just a coincidence.

[0:26] Tommy: Well, that's fascinating. What is the etymology of crap though? There's something I don't know.

[0:30] Jimi: Right? I'm sure it's wildly disputed. From Middle English, crap, c-a-r-a-p-p-e, crappin, crappies, which means chaff or buckwheat.

[0:39] Tommy: It could also be from Old French, meaning chaff. So it's old Dutch to cut off, pluck off, a chap, cutlet. Yeah, so it's the residue from rendering fat.

[0:52] Jimi: How did we get to that?

[0:54] Tommy: I guess it means like the off cuts, the rubbish bits. Great, well there we go. That's me.

[1:00] Jimi: Will somebody get us another drink?

[1:05] Tommy: Guess what?

[1:06] Jimi: What?

[1:07] Tommy: It's good that we're talking about words.

[1:09] Jimi: It is good that we're talking about words.

[1:11] Tommy: Why is that?

[1:12] Jimi: I believe the answer to that is also the answer to last podcast's trivia question.

[1:17] Tommy: Oh my god.

[1:19] Jimi: Whoa, do you have like morning radio in the UK? And I say that, I imagine there's radio in the morning, but there's a stereotype of like morning radio in the United States that's like, we're gonna wake you up, oh it's zany, boing. Like, stupid sound effects.

[1:35] Tommy: Like the WSKID.

[1:36] Jimi: Yeah, kind of like that. You know, Bob McRob here in the morning, waking you up and playing some of your favorite tunes. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Welcome to K922 36.5, The Drive.

[1:49] Tommy: Jing, jing, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

[1:52] Jimi: Yeah. Basically, yeah.

[1:54] Tommy: No, we don't have that. But we never have American enthusiasm, so we have dour British politics and news.

[2:01] Jimi: See, and we have that can-do spirit of newsboys and billionaire oil barons.

[2:06] Tommy: Exactly.

[2:07] Jimi: Exactly.

[2:09] Tommy: Our last week's trivia question was, this was a tricky question, Jimmy.

[2:13] Jimi: Yeah.

[2:14] Tommy: Tricky question, I mean trick question.

[2:17] Jimi: We got you all.

[2:18] Tommy: We got you all. This musical was Julie Andrews' last Broadway performance to date. In an unfortunate turn of events, she flubbed on her lines and left stage in embarrassment. What musical?

[2:30] Jimi: It was not Victor Victoria.

[2:32] Tommy: It was not Victor Victoria. It was not Mary Poppins. That'd be weird. That wasn't on stage.

[2:37] Jimi: That'd be really cool.

[2:39] Tommy: What else was she in Broadway on?

[2:41] Jimi: Camelot.

[2:42] Tommy: Camelot.

[2:43] Jimi: Wasn't that either?

[2:44] Tommy: Camelot. Nope, wasn't Camelot.

[2:46] Jimi: It was her hugely popular and well-known performance in the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee.

[2:53] Tommy: Woo!

[2:54] Jimi: And the crowds go wild.

[2:56] Tommy: And everyone at home is like, what? Julie Andrews was in Spelling Bee?

[3:01] Jimi: Right? Of course she was. She played Barfey.

[3:05] Tommy: That's Barfey. We listeners, we apologize. Julie Andrews was a special guest star on a matinee kids performance of Spelling Bee. There's great footage of it on Playbill.com.

[3:15] Jimi: We'll try and put it in show notes. It's hard to find.

[3:18] Tommy: Yeah, I know. That was buried.

[3:20] Jimi: And Jimmy, what word did Miss Andrews get out on?

[3:24] Tommy: It's... oh, would you like it forward or backwards?

[3:29] Jimi: They asked her to spell supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, and she flubbed on her lines and left the stage.

[3:36] Tommy: And it wasn't on purpose. I don't think anyway. She's not that good of an actress.

[3:41] Jimi: What? She's a great actress.

[3:43] Tommy: Oh yeah, but you know, that was some genuine shock when she got on.

[3:47] Jimi: That's true. And you'd figure, like, if you had to pick the one person in the world who you think knows how to spell supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, probably Julie Andrews.

[3:55] Tommy: Which means she must have done it in one take.

[3:57] Jimi: That's true.

[3:58] Tommy: Because that's the only way.

[4:00] Jimi: She probably invented that whole song off the cuff when they were filming it.

[4:05] Tommy: Yeah, she's just like, make up a word, Jules.

[4:08] Jimi: Oh, yeah, okay. Can you say it backwards?

[4:12] Tommy: Which way? In the Broadway way?

[4:14] Jimi: In the Broadway way.

[4:16] Tommy: No, I can't say it backwards in the Broadway way. I can say docious aliexpiastic-

[4:20] Jimi: Oh, I see, you got me.

[4:22] Tommy: No, try it, try it.

[4:24] Jimi: Docious aliexpiasticfragicalirupert is how Julie says it in the movie. But that's not backwards. That's syllabically backwards.

[4:32] Tommy: So I think in the musical it is suercatalystic-syllagar for the Creepus.

[4:37] Jimi: Ooooo.

[4:38] Tommy: Right?

[4:39] Jimi: He may be tricky, but he's bloody good.

[4:41] Tommy: Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun.

[4:46] Jimi: We're not doing Mary Poppins, we're doing Spelling Bee.

[4:49] Tommy: There was a period where my friends and I tried to learn that choreography.

[4:53] Jimi: Yeah?

[4:54] Tommy: We did okay. You know, this is- I mean, since we're on a Mary Poppins tangent only briefly...

[4:59] Jimi: Our first tangent of the day.

[5:01] Tommy: Right? I know, we never go on tangents ever. MTI is licensing out Mary Poppins in America.

[5:07] Jimi: Tremendous!

[5:09] Tommy: And so it's doing the community and high school theater rounds like nobody's business.

[5:13] Jimi: Yeah.

[5:14] Tommy: And there's explicit- it's written into the contract that you can perform the original Super Cal choreography, which is great and interesting because it's like not written in the Chicago contract that you can do the original Bob Fosse choreography.

[5:26] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[5:27] Tommy: But when you do Chicago, you do the Bob Fosse choreography.

[5:30] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[5:31] Tommy: Or it's not written in the Les Mis contract that you can do the marching in the triangle.

[5:35] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[5:36] Tommy: But everyone does it.

[5:38] Jimi: How peculiar.

[5:39] Tommy: Copyrighted choreography, subject for another day, but-

[5:43] Jimi: Yeah, I thought that was only something Jerry Robbins did, because he was a dick.

[5:48] Tommy: No, there's all sorts of- oh, we should have a full discussion about this later, but there's a whole lawsuit about the choreography of Urinetown.

[5:55] Jimi: Have you heard about this?

[5:57] Tommy: Really? No.

[5:58] Jimi: Oh, it was big old bad news for an amateur theater. The original choreographer sued some community theater for doing their original choreography, and it went to court, and it came down to what can you and can't you copyright as a choreographer.

[6:12] Tommy: And that's all I know, actually. I don't remember who won.

[6:15] Jimi: It is a contentious point, but-

[6:17] Tommy: Yeah.

[6:18] Jimi: Hey, one for another day.

[6:20] Tommy: One for another day, because we're talking about Spelling Bee.

[6:23] Jimi: At the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, my parents keep on telling me just being here is winning, although I know it isn't so.

[6:35] Tommy: But it's a very nice, very, very nice, very, very nice, very nice beginning.

[6:42] Jimi: So you did Spelling Bee, right?

[6:44] Tommy: Yes, this is the first show that we've talked about that I've actually directed.

[6:48] Jimi: That's awesome. How long ago did you direct it?

[6:51] Tommy: I directed it in October 2014. Is that right? Yes, it is.

[6:56] Jimi: Wow, that's like a decade ago.

[6:58] Tommy: I know time flies really quickly when you're an adult and you get depressed. But yeah, it was my friend and I directed it, and it was the funnest thing ever.

[7:10] Jimi: We did it in like three weeks.

[7:12] Tommy: It was a ridiculous turnover for what we're used to, but we managed it. And yeah, everyone really enjoyed it who came to see it.

[7:19] Jimi: It was a little bit rough around the edges, as you can imagine.

[7:22] Tommy: I think it suits itself for that.

[7:24] Jimi: Yeah, completely. And we wanted to buy into the shabbiness of it, because you'd never go to a Spelling Bee in a county Spelling Bee. It would be hugely grand, all bells and whistles, and look polished.

[7:36] Tommy: Right, no, it's in a cafeteria somewhere.

[7:39] Jimi: Exactly. I imagine this show is difficult to direct.

[7:42] Tommy: What is challenging to me is the choose your own adventure aspect of it.

[7:46] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Should we tell everyone what that is in case they don't know?

[7:50] Tommy: Oh, yeah, we should tell people if they haven't seen Spelling Bee, the premise. So, I mean, it's a Spelling Bee. It's seven, I think.

[7:57] Jimi: I may have got that completely wrong.

[7:59] Tommy: Children.

[8:01] Jimi: Yeah, a couple of middle school children-ish, like 12 to 16 year old.

[8:06] Tommy: Yep. Although we do have Logan, who I think is eight.

[8:09] Jimi: Yeah.

[8:10] Tommy: And she's the youngest.

[8:12] Jimi: Played very much by adults.

[8:14] Tommy: Yes, exactly. And they are just competing to win the county tryouts to go on to state nationals.

[8:20] Jimi: How would you characterize these children?

[8:23] Tommy: Very much like children. They are like every single caricature and archetype of a child that you can imagine, in all shapes and forms, and very accurately written archetypes. Like very much, you know, they have that adolescent awkwardness down to a T, all in their own different ways.

[8:38] Jimi: Exactly, exactly. You see the horrors of your 12-year-oldness.

[8:42] Tommy: Absolutely. But alongside them, you've also got some equally dysfunctional adults.

[8:46] Jimi: Yeah.

[8:47] Tommy: Who in some ways are more so dysfunctional.

[8:50] Jimi: Yeah.

[8:51] Tommy: Vice Principal Panch, and Miss Peretti.

[8:54] Jimi: Rona-Lisa Peretti.

[8:56] Tommy: And then you've also got the comfort counselor.

[8:59] Jimi: The comfort counselor.

[9:01] Tommy: Mitch Mahoney.

[9:03] Jimi: Mitch Mahoney.

[9:04] Tommy: Who is working on his community service.

[9:07] Jimi: He is my favorite. What a ridiculous and wonderful character.

[9:11] Tommy: They're all my favorite. The whole thing is great. It's just such a wonderful show.

[9:15] Jimi: It's so original.

[9:17] Tommy: Like, so original.

[9:19] Jimi: Absolutely. Like nothing else that had come before.

[9:22] Tommy: Nothing else come before it. I can't imagine.

[9:25] Jimi: In a really simple way, too.

[9:27] Tommy: Yeah, completely. And I think, obviously, the defining character, I just think I've not got to yet, which is the audience participation.

[9:34] Jimi: Which is just so...

[9:36] Tommy: Oh, it's hilarious.

[9:37] Jimi: It's done perfectly.

[9:39] Tommy: And it's made, and I can say this as someone who's directed it, it's made so easy for you by the writers, because they give you very, very clear instructions of how to deal with your people, how to choose them, which type of person you should choose. And then all the way through, it gives you lots of different options and get outs for when to get them out and when they need to be out by.

[9:58] Jimi: Yeah.

[9:59] Tommy: And yeah, you're definitely armed with the right tools, too.

[10:03] Jimi: So along with all of the scripted spellers for our listeners, they invite four audience members up on stage to also participate in the Spelling Bee.

[10:12] Tommy: And not just the Spelling Bee, they get to participate in the numbers and the jokes. They get to become characters. They're very much a part of the show as anything else.

[10:22] Jimi: You can't do the show without them.

[10:24] Tommy: So how did you rehearse that? This is what I've always wondered about the rehearsal process of Spelling Bee. Because you can't, do you invite three random, four random people off the street every day to come and be in it or what?

[10:36] Jimi: No.

[10:37] Tommy: So we, well, for the numbers that required people, the numbers specifically, when we initially were choreographing them, we would be like, there's a person here, especially, and then myself, the other director, or anyone who's kind of lying about would jump in.

[10:50] Jimi: Just fill in.

[10:51] Tommy: And then we did a sort of a preview day.

[10:54] Jimi: Okay.

[10:55] Tommy: We invited some of our friends along who we knew would be up for it and willing. And so that was the first time we got to stretch our improvisational pause. And it worked really, really well.

[11:06] Jimi: It worked really, really well.

[11:08] Tommy: And then we got good feedback from them as well as to how they felt as a part of the process.

[11:13] Jimi: Because the main, basically what you don't want is for your guest spellers to ever feel alienated.

[11:18] Tommy: Or isolated on the stage.

[11:20] Jimi: And that's made so clear in the script, is that it says, they are, you know, the golden children, never drop them.

[11:25] Tommy: Absolutely. Guide them through.

[11:27] Jimi: You never want, and it's really been clear on this as well, that you never want the audience to laugh at them because they are the audience and they will make or break your show.

[11:36] Tommy: Yeah.

[11:37] Jimi: And if they feel uncomfortable, your whole audience will feel uncomfortable.

[11:41] Tommy: Exactly.

[11:42] Jimi: So you don't want that. So we got nice feedback from them about the times.

[13:08] Jimi: The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee Shindig is a production of the Broadway Podcast Network.

[14:39] Tommy: We are still missing a speller. Would Mr. Al Sharpton please join us on stage?

[14:51] Jimi: Thank you. Take your seat.

[14:58] Tommy: Mr. Sharpton. This fall, Mr. Sharpton will run for class president on a platform of racial equality and macaroni and cheese.

[15:13] Jimi: Thank you. Could you give me the definition please?

[15:17] Tommy: It's an infectious disease transmitted by mosquitoes and characterized by headache, joint pain, skin rash and severe diarrhea.

[15:27] Jimi: Could you use it in a sentence please?

[15:30] Tommy: When the pediatrician asked Billy to describe the symptoms of his dengue, he said it's like there was a race out of my tushy and everybody won.

[15:39] Jimi: Thank you. D-A-K-N-I-A.

[15:44] Tommy: You're about one for six.

[15:47] Jimi: It's D-E-N-G-U-E.

[15:50] Tommy: That's what I said.

[16:09] Jimi: It must be such a fun show to perform in too, because you get that flexibility and opportunity as a performer in a well-written character, in a well-established skeleton. It's just awesome.

[16:22] Tommy: Exactly. It's really, really good.

[16:24] Jimi: So I just looked at the script for this because I wondered how do you script something that's so improvised? And it is so wonderfully leading. Because in the story, if you haven't seen the libretto, you have to get all of the guest spellers out by a certain time, but you don't want them all to be gone right away.

[16:46] Tommy: And so you have to structure the words they get and the times you call them up so that most likely they're going to win or lose and you can keep them or get them out.

[16:55] Jimi: It's so smart, isn't it? It feels like science.

[17:00] Tommy: And that's the thing is, we were so lucky that the people playing Rona and Arpanj were so good and they were so on it and they were able to really judge the spelling ability of each person.

[17:13] Jimi: Because a big part of it as well is working out, well, who do you want to keep to the end?

[17:17] Tommy: Right, who's going to be fun throughout the whole thing? Because the longer they stay, the more they obviously get involved in.

[17:23] Jimi: And then also, you need to be able to take the rip out of the guest spellers as well when they call them up.

[17:29] Tommy: They do it in very typical, for those of you who haven't seen it, they kind of bring the guest spellers on in very typical Spelling Bee fashion by giving a brief blurb or interesting fact about them. Again, all completely improvised. The book gives a nice list.

[17:47] Jimi: Let's say that you have a completely bald head.

[17:53] Tommy: So it would be like, Mr. Musical Mash is recovering from head lice. Do you know what I mean?

[18:00] Jimi: That's a funny one. Or they've got for someone wearing flip flops.

[18:04] Tommy: Ms. Musical Mash supports the Democratic Party by wearing her flip flops. Do you know what I mean?

[18:14] Jimi: Yeah, it's wonderful. And whenever they, in the stage directions for the thing, have a moment for improv, they're very insistent that the improv be short and sweet and not take center stage.

[18:27] Tommy: Which I think is one of, I live in ground zero for a lot of improv. You know, Chicago, the Second City, and then every other improv community that's ever birthed. And that gets a little trying at times. My friends and I have a joke, friends don't let friends do improv.

[18:45] Jimi: And one of the things I think that can get difficult about it is it calls attention to itself. It gets very self-indulgent quickly, which makes me feel uncomfortable as an audience member.

[18:54] Tommy: Right. And Spelling Bee avoids it wonderfully.

[18:59] Jimi: Exactly. And it's one of those things as well. If you find that you do have a guest speller who isn't taking the reins, then that's when you're cracking knuckles and you're like, what have you done?

[19:11] Tommy: I did see a production where the cast got blindsided, which immediately made me feel uncomfortable as an audience member. They were on person number two. It was clear they needed to keep them in.

[19:24] Jimi: They were going to give them a word to keep them in no matter what. And so they said, your word is two, which is a good one to either keep in or get out.

[19:35] Tommy: And then the audience members have to, what is it, they ask for a definition. And they said, I don't remember what they said, it was something cleverer than a two.

[19:44] Jimi: Amazing. And then ask them to spell it.

[19:55] Tommy: And it was clear whatever spelling they were going to give, they kept them in. And the lady went, T-W-U-O-2. And they have to get her out. That's not how to spell any of the words.

[20:10] Jimi: And they rolled right with it. Paunch hit the bell, they sang goodbye. And then they struggled on through and skipped the next one. But you could see on all the cast members' faces, them break for a second and be like, oh, shoot.

[20:30] Tommy: But they give you advice if that happens. They cover every eventuality. If for some reason someone's a complete idiot, you can skip to this, which is great.

[20:40] Jimi: Yeah. And they have, if you can't get a person out, they say, like, give them a made-up word that they're going to get wrong. And for the definition, say, the definition is, spell this word wrong.

[20:53] Tommy: Yeah, exactly. Because I was lucky enough, when I saw production, I got to be a guest speller. Don't put me as a guest speller, I'm an attention seeker.

[21:02] Jimi: No, I had a lot of fun. I got through to the end. I'm a good speller, right? And I think I spelled one of the words that they didn't expect me to spell.

[21:18] Tommy: But it was so much fun being a guest speller, because when you're sitting there on the bleachers, the cast are always interacting with you. There's always something going on. They're always in character. So it's like, you just get a completely different show.

[21:34] Jimi: It's not like you're just sitting there waiting about watching the audience. You fully get to be a part of it.

[21:41] Tommy: You still get a show.

[21:46] Jimi: Which is so enjoyable. It was great.

[21:49] Tommy: Should we talk a bit about the music?

[21:52] Jimi: The music for this is beautiful. I mean, William Finn, Bill Finn. He's fabulous.

[21:57] Tommy: Good ol' Billy. He's so good.

[22:01] Jimi: He's got a different feel that still fits in a lot of the contemporary musical theatre scene. I think Spelling Bee is one of his most vanilla of musicals, too.

[22:13] Tommy: Yeah, to be honest. It's certainly not as autobiographical.

[22:18] Jimi: That's true. Bill Finn writes about himself.

[22:22] Tommy: Even if you compare it to any of the falsettos, it's not as in-your-face.

[22:30] Jimi: There are obviously some in-your-face moments, but I agree that it is a lot lighter.

[22:37] Tommy: I think throughout all of his music, definitely in Spelling Bee, he doesn't patronize his audience with the music.

[22:45] Jimi: Nothing is simple. I don't think he repeats much of a chorus throughout the whole thing. Maybe Pandemonium, you hear Goodbye 12 times, but even then, each Goodbye is different.

[22:56] Tommy: Exactly.

[22:58] Jimi: He's not a 32-bar song kind of guy.

[23:02] Tommy: That's the thing. For a musical about kids, it doesn't ever feel like a kid's musical.

[23:09] Jimi: It's not a song that any kid would ever sing. The music's really tough. It's really difficult to learn, really difficult to play.

[23:17] Tommy: And that just works. You don't feel patronized.

[23:23] Jimi: No one feels dumb in this musical. People feel flawed, but no one feels simple or stupid.

[23:30] Tommy: He's such a great lyrical genius, in a completely different way to Mr. Sondheim.

[23:38] Jimi: He's got sass down to a T. There's no one that writes sassy music.

[23:45] Tommy: Better than William Finn.

[23:48] Jimi: The sarcasm and the edge to all of it.

[23:51] Tommy: Sondheim's really good at writing cynical stuff.

[23:55] Jimi: I think William Finn's really good at sarcastic.

[24:00] Tommy: Together, they cover the whole wealth of that.

[24:05] Jimi: There's a lot of thinly-veiled subtext throughout all of this.

[24:08] Tommy: It takes you on a nice ride, too.

[24:11] Jimi: It sets you up with these simple, middle school kids. This is going to be a nice, free-flying musical.

[24:19] Tommy: We get real deep into some real big problems that they all have in their lives.

[24:23] Jimi: It never feels out of the blue.

[24:26] Tommy: It definitely hits you, but never in one of those deeper songs am I like, Where did this come from? I'm like, Okay, I understand.

[24:36] Jimi: The thing that I absolutely love about the show, and this is something that we really wanted to bring out in our production for sure, is basically the kind of world of these spelling bees, and all of the different pressures that kids are under, for various reasons.

[24:52] Tommy: Have you ever seen the movie Spellbound?

[24:55] Jimi: I feel like I've seen parts of it, but I have very little memory of it.

[24:59] Tommy: It looks like it's one of those... Oh, sugar. I've forgotten his name.

[25:06] Jimi: The guy from Spinal Tap.

[25:08] Tommy: Christopher Guest.

[25:10] Jimi: Christopher Guest, there you go. The documentary feels like a Christopher Guest movie, but it's not, and that's when you get scared, because the characters and the parents and everything are ridiculous.

[25:25] Tommy: Basically, it follows, I think, something like 12 different spellers who are going for the US Championship, the final, final. And you get to see their families, a bit of their life, why they got into spelling, what they want to do when they're older.

[25:44] Jimi: It's weirdly not inspired by spelling bees, but there's no link between the two of them, but it's the same thing. You get to see all of these exact same archetypal children, and I watched Spellbound ages ago, and then when we decided to do Spelling Bee, I was like, we need to watch this, because this is the reality of it. If we want to find any truth in it, we've got to watch it.

[26:17] Jimi: Welcome back to Jim and Tomic's Musical Theatre Happy Hour! We are so excited to be back after our little hiatus.

[26:47] Tommy: Yes, and what better way to return than with a discussion about "The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee"?

[27:17] Jimi: Absolutely! This musical is such a fun exploration of pre-adolescence and the pressures of spelling bees.

[27:37] Tommy: And let's not forget the characters! Each one is so unique and relatable in their own way.

[27:57] Jimi: Right? I mean, who doesn't love a good underdog story?

[28:17] Tommy: Speaking of underdogs, I have to confess my undying love for Barrett Foa.

[28:37] Jimi: Oh, Barrett Foa! He’s fantastic! His energy is just infectious.

[28:57] Tommy: And his performance in this show is no exception.

[29:17] Jimi: For sure! The way he brings his character to life is just brilliant.

[29:37] Tommy: Plus, the music by William Finn is just so catchy and clever.

[29:57] Jimi: It really is! I mean, you find yourself humming the songs long after the show is over.

[30:17] Tommy: And the humor in the show is just top-notch.

[30:37] Jimi: Definitely! It balances the serious themes with lighthearted moments perfectly.

[30:57] Tommy: Speaking of humor, did you know that even Dame Julie Andrews tripped over her lines during her guest appearance?

[31:17] Jimi: No way! That’s hilarious! It just goes to show that everyone has their off days.

[31:37] Tommy: Exactly! And it makes her appearance even more endearing.

[31:57] Jimi: And if you’re interested in the real-life world of spelling bees, you should check out the documentary "Spellbound."

[32:17] Tommy: Oh, I love that documentary! It really captures the intensity of those competitions.

[32:37] Jimi: And it’s fascinating to see how these kids prepare for such high-stakes events.

[32:57] Tommy: Absolutely! It’s like a sport in its own right.

[33:17] Jimi: Speaking of sports, have you seen that video of Billy Eichner and Jason Sudeikis tailgating for "Wicked"?

[33:37] Tommy: Yes! It’s so funny! They really know how to have a good time.

[33:57] Jimi: And it’s great to see that crossover between sports and musical theatre.

[34:17] Tommy: Totally! It’s like they’re both just as passionate about their interests.

[34:37] Jimi: And let’s not forget the Kids Bop cover of "Thrift Shop."

[34:57] Tommy: Oh man, that’s a wild ride!

[35:17] Jimi: It really is! You have to listen to it if you haven’t already.

[35:37] Tommy: And TheatreMania put together a great compilation of the Spelling Bee reunion concert.

[35:57] Jimi: Yes! It’s so heartwarming to see everyone back together again.

[36:17] Tommy: And Leaf Conybear with his cat capes? I can’t even!

[36:37] Jimi: Right? That’s just the kind of quirky charm that makes this show so special.

[36:57] Tommy: And then there’s Logainne Schwartzandgrubenierre holding her breath.

[37:17] Jimi: Classic! It’s those little moments that really stick with you.

[37:37] Tommy: And remember when internet marketing was just starting out?

[37:57] Jimi: Oh, those were the days!

[38:17] Tommy: And finally, have you ever heard the word “sardoodledom”?

[38:37] Jimi: I can’t say that I have! What does it mean?

[38:57] Tommy: Trust me, it’s worth a listen!

[39:25] Tommy: That thing is, it doesn't talk about her, really. Yes, it talks about, oh, she has a newfound thing, but it's just, I think, saccharine. I think it's very much, um, yeah, bling on heavy unnecessarily.

[39:37] Jimi: I could see that. It does seem very much, you know, it's, uh, the alternate ending is kind of a baseball bat approach. Like, did you get it yet? BAM! Not yet. How about now? BAM! And it would change your whole thoughts about the whole show. It potentially would spoil it for many people, and it's not the kind of show that that's for. Do you know what I mean? It is, yeah, musical comedy! Music comedy! Like, you've got your fiddlers out there for that reason, so you leave and you're shaking. You're not supposed to leave a spelling bee shaking. You're supposed to leave having had a wonderful time.

[40:23] Tommy: Yeah, that's true. And I think there's enough melancholy in all of the epilogue as a total that we don't need the...

[40:28] Jimi: Exactly, because that's the thing, is it's weird sandwiching that in alongside things like Leif Konebear has cats, or, you know, Chip Cholentino grew to love his erections, you know what I mean?

[40:35] Tommy: Yeah, exactly, yeah. As did many others. They're so well written and funny that it'd just be weird. You'd be like, why? What's that? I mean, suddenly you're getting the pause clap, which is nothing you don't want.

[40:54] Jimi: Yeah, I think I have not yet had the opportunity to be a part of a production of this. I think I would go that way, too, with the happy ending. I would recommend it to others. I do think it's a wonderfully interesting dramaturgical choice to include this alternate ending. You know, I wouldn't even be surprised if the thing said, this is the ending we originally wrote. Don't use it. It is included here to give you a fuller picture of the show.

[41:26] Tommy: Yeah. Like, it feels almost like that sort of thing. Yeah. Everything's great.

[41:34] Jimi: I don't know. No, it's weird to me, even just thinking about it. It's just like...

[41:38] Tommy: Makes you uncomfortable. Speaking of uncomfortableness and alternates provided in the script, I assume you included, we're gonna say the word erection a bunch of times now, so if you're listening with your parents, maybe in the car, maybe this is the part to skip.

[41:55] Jimi: Exactly. There's a song in the show. No, you shouldn't. No, you shouldn't. Erection, erection, erection. Everyone gets an erection. We all get them. Well, about half of the population, give or take, gets an erection.

[42:06] Tommy: Well, technically, females can get one, too. If you're still listening with your mom, now's the time to turn it off. Right? It's sex ed with Jim and Tommy. So they give this alternative for the song, My Unfortunate Erection. There's alternate lyrics called My Unfortunate Distraction. What do you think about this?

[42:25] Jimi: Oh, I just think it's stupid. I understand why it's there, because that would be the make or break at your local community church hall, and they say, what are you talking about erection? We should be talking about that as a child.

[42:39] Tommy: Right. There are no children here. There are no children here.

[42:43] Jimi: Yeah. It's not, you know, I mean, you don't, it's an erection. Yeah. And like, literally, you know, it's a kid singing about it. Clearly, this is an experience that a lot of people have gone through. Like, there's nothing, you know.

[43:03] Tommy: But, like, I always wonder about things like this. Who, where the push for this came from? Like, when we talk about Sondheim's boulderized lyrics for Sweeney Todd.

[43:11] Jimi: Yes.

[43:11] Tommy: Is this Bill Finn being like, ah, we should include this? Or is this MTI being like, you know, one of our top audiences is high schools, and you gotta rewrite this. And he begrudgingly includes it so that they can market it to these schools. But I feel like if that's a change you're making, you shouldn't be doing this show.

[43:29] Jimi: Yep. Well, did you get the preamble to it?

[43:34] Tommy: Yes. And it's wonderfully written.

[43:35] Jimi: From Will Finn. Because he is very much like, you shouldn't, like, don't use it.

[43:42] Tommy: Yeah.

[43:42] Jimi: Like, he's actually pretty much like, if you're using it, stop it.

[43:45] Tommy: Yeah. I love he said, he's like, note, whatever lyric Chip sings, he is singing the song while throwing candy into the audience. If he throws enough candy at a school, the audience will be screaming so loud that it won't matter what lyric he sings. For the record, the original is funnier and more to the point. Use it if at all possible.

[44:02] Jimi: Like, he does not beat around the bush.

[44:04] Tommy: Exactly. It's, you know, I mean, he's not talking about going and having sex. He's not, like, it's not can't keep it down.

[44:10] Jimi: Yeah.

[44:11] Tommy: Which I would say is a lot more risky. And thankfully, there are alternate lyrics for that one. But it's, yeah.

[44:20] Jimi: Oh, man, the world of alternate lyrics and musicals. Have you ever heard?

[44:24] Tommy: Have you ever heard of Avenue Q?

[44:26] Jimi: I was going to talk about a chorus line. It has my favorites.

[44:31] Tommy: What are the alternate lyrics on the chorus line?

[44:32] Jimi: Think through it. What's the song you can't sing at a school? You'll get there.

[44:36] Tommy: Right. But I can't remember there being an alternative.

[44:39] Jimi: Uh, there's a whole bunch. Instead of tits and ass, they say this and that. I've heard that.

[44:46] Tommy: That wasn't in my script.

[44:48] Jimi: There's also boobs and butt. I don't know if any of these are approved, but they're all ones I've heard of schools doing.

[44:54] Tommy: They're not in the libretto. That's really interesting.

[44:58] Jimi: They're not in the libretto.

[44:59] Tommy: And I think that one is more risque. I think there's no reason to rewrite it, but I think it's more risque than My Unfortunate Erection.

[45:07] Jimi: Yeah. I mean, erection isn't a bad word. Tits isn't either, but I can see why it's closer to being a bad word. Like, erection is clinical.

[45:16] Tommy: Yeah. Subject-wise, in a chorus line, she's talking about, you know, improving her body to land men and roles. Like, there's something more adult about that than my accidental erection.

[45:32] Jimi: Yeah. But then it's one of those things, like, we've talked about this before, but don't do it. Don't do a chorus line.

[45:38] Tommy: Right. Exactly. Like, read the show beforehand.

[45:42] Jimi: Yeah, exactly. Like, you're also dealing with adult relationships, you know, children not coming out to their parents and going off to be a drag queen. Like, come on. If you're watering that down, don't do the show, because that isn't the show. You're then not doing the show. Do you know what I mean?

[45:57] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[45:58] Jimi: Have you ever seen or read any of the Avenue Q School Edition stuff?

[46:03] Tommy: No, it must be the worst. What do they do for the Internet is for Porn?

[46:07] Jimi: So instead of the Internet is for Porn, you have My Social Life is Online.

[46:13] Tommy: Oh, god. Oh, god, that sounds like a Kidz Bop song. I mean, that's basically what they did, I imagine. Like, do you have Kidz Bop?

[46:24] Jimi: No.

[46:24] Tommy: I'm gonna put some Kidz Bop in the comment for you, Jimmy. It's, they take popular songs and re-record them with adolescent voices and entirely censor them. My favorite is the Kidz Bop version of Thrift Shop by Macklemore. You know the line in Thrift Shop where they go, smells like R. Kelly's sheets. It was 99 cents in the Kidz Bop version. It was 99 cents! And then it goes, boing!

[47:19] Jimi: Oh, my god.

[47:21] Tommy: That's so obsessive.

[47:22] Jimi: Yeah, it's a lot of things like that. So that's what this sounds like, Kidz Bop Avenue Q. But like, on the other hand, where do you reach that rewriting threshold where it's a different show now?

[47:38] Tommy: Right. And I think with Avenue Q School Edition, it's a different show now. I think with-

[47:43] Jimi: What's the point in having Trekkie Monster if he isn't around the clock jacking off all the time?

[47:48] Tommy: I think in Spelling Bee, if it's my unfortunate distraction, you've taken a lot out of Chip's character.

[47:57] Jimi: Chip's character, exactly. And I guess, like, the point is, is he's still talking about his erections, just not saying the word erection. So it's still, you know, if you direct it appropriately. But then the thing is, is if you're directing it appropriately, and he's, you know, talking about his part-

[48:14] Tommy: Then it should be as equally as offensive to the people who are offended by erections. And like, good on William Finn for setting up that trap. Like, he's like, fine, here, take this.

[48:27] Jimi: Completely. Because, yeah, his epilogue line changes. His epilogue line, I'll do a dramatic reading for those at home, is, Chip Tolentino made it through adolescence, and in the course of time, came to appreciate his erection. As did many others, as you quoted earlier. The alternate would be that he says, came to appreciate the distractions of puberty. And it's the same-

[48:56] Tommy: Yeah, it's the same joke. There is no question. And, you know, it's like, well, then at that point, why bother? At that point, why bother? That changed. You know, cut the song. Just say erection.

[49:06] Jimi: Here's, free the erection. That's what I say. Hashtag free the erection.

[49:12] Tommy: I'm gonna make you a t-shirt that says that, that you should wear around town.

[49:17] Jimi: I'm right. My words.

[49:20] ♪ Musical number: "My Unfortunate Erection" — performed by Chip Tolentino ♪

[50:34] Tommy: On the subject of spelling bee being adult. The spelling bee late nights.

[50:39] Jimi: I got that on my notes too. Adult performances.

[50:42] Tommy: Yeah. I love this idea.

[50:45] Jimi: It's the best. Oh man.

[50:48] Tommy: It harks back to it being an improv show, do you know what I mean?

[50:51] Jimi: Yeah. And it totally just being like, hey, let's just go have some subversive fun on Broadway.

[50:59] Tommy: So it was originally like one night a week, maybe?

[51:04] Jimi: I think. Was it even that frequent? Well, I seem to recall at the very least, you didn't know if you were going to attend an adult night of spelling bee or not. And then on a certain night, the cast would absolutely make it the most dirty, raunchy show you have ever seen.

[51:22] Tommy: Yeah.

[51:25] Jimi: Which is hilarious. So funny.

[51:27] Tommy: And particularly because of the show that it is.

[51:31] Jimi: Right. Yeah, so good.

[51:34] Tommy: But again, it goes back to my like, you know, that's what makes this show exciting. Makes it like a sports game. You don't know what's going to happen.

[51:41] Jimi: Exactly. Exactly. And that's I think that's why, you know, it did do so well. I was, to be honest with you, I was surprised it closed as early as it did.

[51:50] Tommy: Not that it closed particularly early, but just that it closed.

[51:54] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[51:56] Tommy: It's one of those things, even if it is the eternal thing of improv, even if you've seen it once, you go back, you see a different show. Do you know what I mean?

[52:03] Jimi: Every night is different.

[52:06] Tommy: Yeah, it played for three years on Broadway and maybe a year off previously.

[52:13] Jimi: I think it was a year. Yeah.

[52:15] Tommy: Like a four year New York run.

[52:17] Jimi: Yeah. And I don't know, I just feel, I would have to go watch Spelling Bee now, even though I know it inside out. I would have to go see a performance of it because you don't know what you're going to get.

[52:28] Tommy: You don't know what you're going to get. Every production is different. There's parts written into the script that say like, you know,

[52:34] Jimi: Local jokes include topical jokes. Yeah, exactly. Update this.

[52:38] Tommy: Uh-huh. Because that, well, that's a big part of it as well. Because our person playing Logan, Logan at halfway through, gives a speech. Because Logan is a sort of political activist, even though she's eight years old. She's got two gay dads and she's very for rights for everyone. And yeah, she gets to give this, deliver this address, basically. So our one was about Lady Gaga. Uh-huh. And yeah, like feminism. And it was very good. She wrote it all herself. She was fantastic. A great Logan. Kate, if you're listening, she won't be listening. Hi, Kate. Sorry that you're not listening.

[53:21] Jimi: Yeah. Yeah, it's such great. What a great opportunity for actors to be able to, you know, great, great, big, big meaty roles. No one is one dimensional in this show. It's very, you know, even the original production was cast with, what was that phrase I used? Intentionally racially diverse or whatever.

[53:46] Tommy: Yes. BAME. Yeah. There are a lot of BAME roles in this that could or could not be. And then they took the choice to, you know, not whitewash the whole show.

[54:00] Jimi: Exactly. Which is great. Like just a bunch of wonderful choices made for the show. And you know what? That's a great point to talk about, because that was something that we find really challenging. So as kind of multicultural as Edinburgh isn't really, the musical theatre scene is very, you know, I mean, very difficult. You do not have your kind of pick.

[54:24] Tommy: Yeah. And so when it comes to casting characters like Mitch and like Marcy Parks, you're faced with an immediate challenge because Mitch is not in any way scripted that he is supposed to be a black male. And he was originally played by a black male.

[54:48] Jimi: Yeah, exactly. And his song is very gospely and, you know, inspired by gospel churches and things like that. Then Marcy Parks is kind of your, I don't want to say, I don't want to be offensive, very stereotypical, you know, comes from an Asian overachieving family. And her story is all about the pressures that come alongside that.

[55:16] Tommy: Stereotypical or not, there's truth in it that I think people feel.

[55:22] Jimi: Exactly. About all of it. Yeah, completely. So we didn't have a black male audition. So there was no choice we had. And I don't think, I can't remember that we had any Asian girls audition. So, you know, we're faced with a bit of a problem, particularly with Mitch, because you don't want to make, and we've made this mistake with Fame, where you don't want to try and ghetto up a skinny white boy. And so we were faced with this kind of challenge of, well, what could Mitch be? Because basically, you've got this guy who's on, you know, doing his community service. He's obviously been arrested for something.

[56:10] Tommy: Right. Do you know what I mean? And so we went on this really weird journey to try and work out, what did Mitch do?

[56:19] Jimi: Right, exactly. And at one point, he was a paedophile, sex offender. And we thought, well, what would the irony be? But we thought that was a little bit too far. So in the end, he sort of became just kind of this alcoholic, with anger management issues. So sort of like a Patrick Bateman type, as opposed to ghetto.

[56:46] Tommy: Who just liked gospel.

[56:53] Jimi: Yeah. It's an interesting, I don't know, tap dance to try and figure out something like that.

[57:02] Tommy: Completely. Because it's one of those things, if you've never seen the show before, you wouldn't know. Do you know what I mean? But to give that character substance.

[57:10] Jimi: Right. And I've seen it done as well before, where he's kind of like a sort of hick, red, like proper, really redneck guy. Which completely worked as well. Just this really big, fat, sweaty guy. So funny. But then comes out with this amazing voice. You're like, yeah, you're great. And yeah, I think to give Mitch that shape, you really need to work that one out. You gotta think about it. And you gotta do it with care and delicacy, as you should with all characterizations. It's just a different angle a little bit.

[57:48] Tommy: And that's the thing, is all the characters have these quirks that could be offensive to some people.

[57:54] Jimi: Yeah. Like all comedy, like all good comedy, I think sometimes, there's a little bit of offensive in it. You know, everything from the two gay dads to Marcy Park coming from a stereotypically overarching Asian family. There's a lot of, you know, even there's a bunch of Jesus jokes in this.

[58:13] Tommy: Yeah. Leaf Coney Bear as well. He's another one. You don't often get characters with potential disabilities on the musical theatre stage. And it's like, well, how far do you push that?

[58:25] Jimi: Yeah. Especially that kind of intellectual learning disability, as opposed to something physically manifesting.

[58:31] Tommy: Exactly. Have you ever seen, actually, have you ever seen, let's talk about Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

[58:35] Jimi: Oh, yeah. Jesse Tyler Ferguson is fantastic.

[58:40] Tommy: So I mean, that's the cast of the show. It's like out of the park. And it's all like, it feels like where were they when? Because I didn't know who Jesse Tyler Ferguson was before this musical.

[58:50] Jimi: And I don't even know what he did before. I couldn't tell you.

[58:52] Tommy: No. I mean, I imagine he was on Broadway and things like that.

[58:55] Jimi: I thought he did something. But this was his leap. And now, you know, if you don't know, Jesse Tyler Ferguson is the one who plays Mitch on Modern Family, which he doesn't watch Modern Family. It's fantastic. And he's got a wonderful career now. We've got Josh Gad, who, you know, this kind of skyrocketed him into Elder Cunningham in Book of Mormon, which then got him into Frozen. And now he's unstoppable.

[59:20] Tommy: And then there's other people like Celia, who I love. She might not be as big as the others. Have you seen the reunion concert of Spelling Bee?

[59:36] Jimi: Potentially? I don't know. Maybe not. They did a 10th anniversary. I think it was a 10th. So it must have been just last year. Anniversary fundraising concert. They got the band back together. It was everyone. And they all did the same thing. They all had beards. It was great. It was clear they all made their outfits from things they found at home.

[59:57] Tommy: Excellent. Did they do the whole show?

[59:59] Jimi: They did the whole show. Top to bottom, original choreography. It looks like it's a gymatorium somewhere, which is the best part. I'll put the video in the show notes. Theater Mania or someone did a nice compilation of it. And then as the finale, they sing the final goodbye again and call up everyone. And so you see this little like Leaf Coney Bear clump with Jesse Tyler Ferguson and then like all these different and they're all just belting their hearts out. It looks fantastic.

[1:00:27] Tommy: That's so good. It's like that blows the Les Mis reunion out of the water.

[1:00:33] Jimi: Exactly. So good. In fact, yeah, we have to pause for a minute and talk about Barrett Foa. I don't know your opinions on Barrett Foa. Do you have any?

[1:00:44] Tommy: I think I need to remind myself what he looks like.

[1:00:49] Jimi: Oh my god. Well, please do enjoy that moment.

[1:00:56] Tommy: Oh, yes, yes. I think Barrett Foa is fantastic. What's he doing right now?

[1:01:00] Jimi: He's in NCIS LA. Was he in Spelling Bee?

[1:01:05] Tommy: Yeah, he was first replacement Leaf Coney Bear.

[1:01:10] Jimi: Right. I'm going to attribute Barrett Foa to like one of the people getting me into musical theatre. Like, seriously. Yeah. Because, well, when was it? This was like 2009. This was when I started to become a geek.

[1:01:20] Tommy: Okay. Like, I always liked it. And then I was trying to find an audition song for Rent. And I thought, okay, because I wanted to play Angel and I knew that much.

[1:01:36] Jimi: Uh-huh. So I did the whole, you know, fun audition song.

[1:01:42] Tommy: Right, exactly. The journey that all young musical theatre actors have gone through.

[1:01:47] Jimi: So, like, scrolling through, scrolling through, and then this one came up. I'm Not That Smart from Spelling Bee. Now, I'd heard about Spelling Bee before. I was like, this fun, new-ish musical. And I was like, okay, this is interesting. And so I listened to it and I was like, this is the funnest thing I've ever seen. And the version that I listened to was Barrett Foa doing it at Bryant Park.

[1:02:07] Tommy: Is that right, Bryant Park? Is that where they do all the performances?

[1:02:12] Jimi: Like Broadway in the Park? Yes, yes, yes, yes. And it was him doing that. And I was like, you are the most beautiful person. And then I literally became obsessed, like, to the point where, if I met him, like, he is my number one. Just to let you know out there, if you're listening, Barrett, I'm here for you, over in Scotland.

[1:02:35] Tommy: I'm sure he'll come over.

[1:02:39] Jimi: Yeah, he would, he would. He was great. But no one's better than Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

[1:02:46] Tommy: It's true. I mean, it's clear that he developed the role. I mean, it's clear that all of them developed their roles. These are not characters that one person wrote. These are characters that came out of lots of time and rehearsal, lots of figuring out and playing and sorting through. I mean, have you seen it? Have you seen any of their original viral marketing for it?

[1:03:07] Jimi: Yes, it's the best thing.

[1:03:12] Tommy: It's amazing. And why doesn't all musicals do that?

[1:03:16] Jimi: Right? There's a whole video of Jesse Tyler Ferguson as Leaf Coney Bear. It's called Leaf Coney Bear Has Cats. And it's about how he makes little capes for his cats and sells them. And all just completely improvised. And it's so great because you just get to see this fully fledged character. And that's because, like, you see, obviously, you see a lot of Leaf in the show. You get to see all of his idiosyncrasies. But that is where you get to see, like, the beef.

[1:03:47] Tommy: Yep. Absolutely.

[1:03:50] Jimi: And then have you seen Logan's one as well?

[1:03:52] Tommy: It's been a while.

[1:03:54] Jimi: Because she does one where she is, like, trying to hold her breath because she's so competitive. And so she's, like, trying to. So she's in the bath in all of her clothes.

[1:04:06] Tommy: Of course.

[1:04:07] Jimi: And she literally holds her breath. And it's like this weirdly, like, awkward thing, because that's the thing about Logan is she's so highly strung because her dads are like show dads and really push her. And she's inhabiting all of this and becomes this, like, firework little child. And that's where it starts to get dark.

[1:04:29] Tommy: Yeah. A little too real.

[1:04:32] Jimi: Yeah. And to be honest with you, like, in our production, obviously, I've seen varying degrees of good Logans. But in our production, Kate was so fantastic. So to give you another name check, Kate. But Woe Is Me.

[1:04:51] Tommy: Yep.

[1:04:52] Jimi: So Woe Is Me reprise ends up becoming the most heartbreaking moment in our show.

[1:04:58] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:04:58] Jimi: Like, because we were like, I love your song. That's it. That's the way.

[1:05:03] Tommy: Right.

[1:05:03] Jimi: You know, nothing else is going to top that.

[1:05:05] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:05:05] Jimi: This comes along.

[1:05:06] Tommy: This comes along, you're like, right in the gut.

[1:05:08] Jimi: Oh my God. Because that is the number that shows you, like, the cruelty.

[1:05:15] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:05:16] Jimi: The cruelty aspect. Because Logan's kind of the only one. Well, no, Chip has a moment too, I suppose. But you really feel it with Logan because she's so young and wild. And then suddenly there's this kind of, like, hubris moment where she's like apologizing to her dads for getting a word wrong. And it's so heartbroken. And she talks about how she's let down America. And it's...

[1:05:42] Jimi: Isn't fake. Like, these kids do believe that stuff. Like, that this is the biggest thing.

[1:05:49] Tommy: It's true. And it's so heartbreaking. Yeah. I mean, that's— I work with middle schoolers, and I've met every character in this show. Like, none of— it is certainly condensed for the sake of the stage, but none of this is terribly exaggerated, or a caricature, or, you know, too much. It's all— like, I have met kids exactly like all of these kids in every way. It's so— yeah. Heartbreaking. Yep. God love little Logan Schwartzengren here.

[1:06:25] Jimi: The funniest character. She's so funny. She's so funny. I would love to play Logan.

[1:06:30] Tommy: And has a great ending. She becomes Secretary of Education.

[1:06:34] Jimi: She does. We had under President Beyoncé Knowles-Carter.

[1:06:40] Tommy: You have to get a little Beyoncé reference in there.

[1:06:42] Jimi: Always. Always. Everything deserves a good Queen Bee reference.

[1:06:46] Tommy: Exactly. And the great thing about Logan is that she has a very strong speech impediment for the whole show. And her song is sung all the way through, and all of her words, thankfully and luckily, have sibilants in them, so that she has to spell them with the fun F word.

[1:07:06] Jimi: But in her epilogue speech— no, I won't spoil it. Wait and see.

[1:07:14] Tommy: Something special happens. Something special.

[1:07:17] Jimi: Something special happens. It's so fun to speak in that, and it's funny, because when you start to, you really can't stop.

[1:07:27] Tommy: And that's how Jimmy had a lisp for the rest of the podcast.

[1:07:30] Jimi: Well, I do have a little bit of a lisp anyway, so I think that's why it helped me.

[1:07:33] Tommy: The gay sibilants.

[1:07:35] Jimi: The gay sibilants.

[1:07:36] Tommy: It's a thing. No one knows where it came from.

[1:07:39] Jimi: I know. The gay voice, the gay sibilants. What is it?

[1:07:41] Tommy: Gay voice, gay sibilants.

[1:07:42] Jimi: What's wrong with us? We're diseased. We should be shot.

[1:07:44] Tommy: One of the most disappointing realities of my educational career is that I did not have a chance to take the class at my college called the gay voice.

[1:07:53] Jimi: What?

[1:07:53] Tommy: I know. It would have been awesome. I didn't have enough room in my schedule, but they were offering a one-semester credit on the history and evolution of homosexual dialect in America.

[1:08:04] Jimi: That's crazy.

[1:08:05] Tommy: Right? Doesn't that sound like the most amazing course ever? And it was taught by this wonderfully flamboyant and queenie professor.

[1:08:14] Jimi: Oh, amazing.

[1:08:16] Tommy: And he owned it in every way you can, and it was the best.

[1:08:21] Jimi: I was just looking at some words. She has, like, fith-tide-th.

[1:08:25] Tommy: Fith-tide-th.

[1:08:28] Jimi: And it's, like, the definition, right?

[1:08:31] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:08:31] Jimi: Oh, no. Use of a sentence. Sorry.

[1:08:34] Tommy: Sally's mother told her it was her cystitis that made her special.

[1:08:38] Jimi: So good. So good.

[1:08:41] Tommy: There's so many freaking levels to the humor in this show.

[1:08:44] Jimi: They keep giving Leif Coneybear all of the African rodents.

[1:08:49] Tommy: Yeah, South American rodents. Exactly.

[1:08:50] Jimi: South American rodents.

[1:08:52] Tommy: Which is great.

[1:08:53] Jimi: Oh, and, like, even in the parts where we're not having everyone spell the words, you just hear him spell chinchilla or something.

[1:09:00] Tommy: Yes.

[1:09:01] Jimi: And you're like, ha!

[1:09:03] Tommy: It's so well done. Interestingly, though, no gay characters in Spelling Bee.

[1:09:08] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:09:08] Tommy: Does that annoy me?

[1:09:09] Jimi: Logan Schwartz and Grubenier's gay dads.

[1:09:12] Tommy: No, I mean, like, kids.

[1:09:14] Jimi: Oh, like, kids?

[1:09:15] Tommy: Do you know what I mean?

[1:09:15] Jimi: Yeah, I mean—

[1:09:16] Tommy: I want the homosexual—

[1:09:18] Jimi: Because one of the things they did do with Chip was, instead of him falling in love with Marigold Coneybear, he falls in love with Leif.

[1:09:27] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:09:29] Jimi: Or, like, one of Leif's brothers instead.

[1:09:31] Tommy: But they only did that on adult night.

[1:09:33] Jimi: Yeah. I mean, I think—

[1:09:34] Tommy: I guess it was a different world in 2005.

[1:09:36] Jimi: Well, I do think, legitimately, it was.

[1:09:39] Tommy: And I only know this because I work with middle schoolers. The coming-out age has been plummeting over even the past decade. Around our time was right when it made the switch. Like, we crossed the threshold when the average coming-out age was early college, late high school, which rings very true. Since then, it's plummeted even further, and kids are more likely to come out in 6th, 7th, and 8th grade now, or at least start broaching that publicly.

[1:10:14] Jimi: That was the wrong way to phrase that.

[1:10:15] Tommy: Please don't use that word, Troy.

[1:10:16] Jimi: It's like, right?

[1:10:20] Tommy: At least, like, you know, talking— like, becoming more open about it.

[1:10:25] Jimi: Broaching the subject.

[1:10:26] Tommy: Broaching the subject. And so, I think, very historically, just in 2004 and 2005, there probably weren't as many out gay middle schoolers.

[1:10:36] Jimi: That's fair.

[1:10:37] Tommy: I don't know, I find it's just surprising from William Finn, because he's someone who's very frank about his homosexuality, and writes amazing, non-stereotypical gay characters.

[1:10:49] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[1:10:51] Tommy: Time for a new brain tangent. If you haven't listened to A New Brain, another musical by William Finn, you gotta go listen to it.

[1:10:57] Jimi: You just gotta.

[1:10:59] Tommy: Go do that, yeah. And especially if you like Spelling Bee, because a lot of it's similar.

[1:11:04] Jimi: Yeah, it's very similar.

[1:11:06] Tommy: It's entirely autobiographical.

[1:11:07] Jimi: It was one of the first musicals I downloaded from iTunes.

[1:11:10] Tommy: Oh, really?

[1:11:11] Jimi: We're talking proto-musical theater mash. Like, this is where I started. Like, it's fantastic.

[1:11:21] Tommy: But so is the Falsetto Trilogy.

[1:11:23] Jimi: So is the Falsetto Trilogy.

[1:11:25] Tommy: And Falsetto Land, or the Falsettos, sorry.

[1:11:30] Jimi: They're just great gay characters. Like, there's nothing...

[1:11:37] Tommy: Like, they're just completely normal. And like, the times that they were written in, we're talking like, the 90s.

[1:11:41] Jimi: Yeah, this would have been revolutionary at the time.

[1:11:44] Tommy: Just like, treating them as normal human beings? How dare you? Like, what are you playing at?

[1:11:50] Jimi: But I do think that adds to what we were talking about. What makes, you know, putting him counting his Spelling Bee, what did I call it? His most vanilla work, is that it is separate from something, separate from that aspect that he likes to write about.

[1:12:08] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:12:08] Jimi: I think that's definitely one of the things that makes it separate. It's not focused on homosexuality in a lot of ways.

[1:12:15] Tommy: That's true.

[1:12:16] Jimi: That's true. And yeah, I suppose that is, you can, I guess, more people can relate to it. Because the thing is, it's like A New Brain.

[1:12:23] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:12:24] Jimi: I hope that most people can relate to that. Because the issues that he talks about are, you know, brain surgery and the recovery. And, you know, the Falsettos is talking about AIDS. And, you know, homosexuality in a time that is really, really tough. So, you know, they're not necessarily the most relatable shows.

[1:12:47] Tommy: Right.

[1:12:48] Jimi: They're about an outgroup.

[1:12:49] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:12:50] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:12:51] Tommy: Spelling bees for everyone.

[1:12:53] Jimi: For everyone.

[1:12:53] Tommy: Everyone was young once.

[1:12:55] Jimi: Oh, there's water.

[1:12:56] Tommy: Actually, do you know what?

[1:12:58] Jimi: What?

[1:12:59] Tommy: Do you know what?

[1:12:59] Jimi: What?

[1:13:01] Tommy: I do love spelling.

[1:13:02] Jimi: Yeah, you do?

[1:13:05] Tommy: I love, I spell recreationally.

[1:13:06] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:13:09] Tommy: We don't have spelling bees in the UK.

[1:13:10] Jimi: If only we did. Because that's how I would make my money.

[1:13:13] Tommy: You know, that's crazy, Jimmy. Because that might be something we have in common.

[1:13:17] Jimi: Except I misspell recreationally.

[1:13:21] Tommy: Well, there you go.

[1:13:22] Jimi: Together.

[1:13:24] Tommy: We are at a zero net sum.

[1:13:27] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[1:13:28] Tommy: And that's the way it all should be.

[1:13:32] Jimi: But let us know. Do you like spelling? Have you ever won your spelling bee? Or are you like me and you hate spelling? And you do everything you can to avoid it.

[1:13:41] Tommy: Pick a side.

[1:13:41] Jimi: I didn't even tell you the word I got out on in sixth grade.

[1:13:46] Tommy: Oh my god, what was it?

[1:13:47] Jimi: Waffle stomper.

[1:13:50] Tommy: What, as in w-a-f-f-l-e-s-t-o-m-b-e-r?

[1:13:53] Jimi: Yeah, waffle stomper. I didn't know if there was an e.

[1:13:58] Tommy: I mean, what the hell is that?

[1:14:00] Jimi: What the hell is a waffle stomper?

[1:14:01] Tommy: It's a kind of shoe.

[1:14:04] Jimi: Does it have a shape of a waffle underneath it?

[1:14:06] Tommy: It does. Any kind of shoe with a bit of a, like, that looks like a waffle on it.

[1:14:10] Jimi: It's literally just waffle stomper.

[1:14:13] Tommy: It's literally waffle stomper.

[1:14:15] Jimi: But I thought it was w-a-f-f-l-e-s-t-o-m-p-e-r.

[1:14:19] Tommy: Can I get out? They reference it in Doug.

[1:14:22] Jimi: That's interesting, isn't it?

[1:14:25] Tommy: It's like a hiking boot.

[1:14:27] Jimi: It is like a hiking boot, yeah.

[1:14:29] Tommy: Amazing.

[1:14:30] Jimi: It'll let you stomp your waffles with it, which just sounds like an urban dictionary thing.

[1:14:35] Tommy: Oh my gosh, I forgot the best reference to put in the show notes.

[1:14:38] Jimi: What's that, Eve?

[1:14:40] Tommy: The funniest spell...

[1:14:42] Jimi: Because that's the thing, if you go on YouTube and you just Google...

[1:14:45] Tommy: If you go on YouTube and Google...

[1:14:47] Jimi: Right.

[1:14:48] Tommy: And then when you're done being a grandmother...

[1:14:50] Jimi: Yeah, shut up.

[1:14:53] Tommy: If you go on YouTube and you search for, like, funny spelling bee moments, like, you'll have the time of your life and you'll get lots because they're all great. But the best one I'll put in the show notes. I won't spell the word for you. But the kid is the cutest thing on the planet.

[1:15:08] Jimi: He's so cute.

[1:15:10] Tommy: There's loads of them. I thought I'd put a couple in because, yeah, they're so great.

[1:15:14] Jimi: Awesome.

[1:15:15] Tommy: But yeah, enough about spelling bee.

[1:15:16] Jimi: Enough about spelling.

[1:15:17] Tommy: Let's talk about next time. What are we going to do?

[1:15:20] Jimi: I actually legitimately don't know.

[1:15:24] Tommy: That's not true.

[1:15:25] Jimi: Neither do I.

[1:15:27] Tommy: Technically, we do know.

[1:15:29] Jimi: We do.

[1:15:30] Tommy: Jimmy's got the question for us.

[1:15:32] Jimi: The trivia question. My turn to read it. So sorry if you're American and you've never actually understood a word I've said.

[1:15:40] Tommy: This is where you're going to get thrown up.

[1:15:43] Jimi: Okay, so you ready?

[1:15:45] Tommy: Are you ready?

[1:15:46] Jimi: I'm ready.

[1:15:47] Tommy: Great.

[1:15:49] Jimi: This musical is one that we've never listened to before. And it's based on a book that neither of us have ever read. But we still obviously managed to find some trivia. So the question is, the person who famously never sang as Eliza Doolittle in My Fair Lady played the title character of this show in a 1956 film adaptation of this book that we've never read.

[1:16:21] Tommy: What?

[1:16:22] Jimi: What could it be?

[1:16:25] Tommy: I'm excited.

[1:16:25] Jimi: We get to listen to a thing we haven't heard before, Jimmy.

[1:16:29] Tommy: I know. And admittedly, we just did a sample and already I'm more excited than I've ever been.

[1:16:34] Jimi: Immediately sold.

[1:16:36] Tommy: Like, brand new across our radar.

[1:16:39] Jimi: It's great.

[1:16:41] Tommy: Apparently.

[1:16:41] Jimi: Maybe.

[1:16:42] Tommy: Maybe.

[1:16:42] Jimi: Who knows?

[1:16:43] Tommy: We listened to a minute. Maybe we found the best 30 seconds in the whole thing.

[1:16:48] Jimi: Of the whole thing.

[1:16:49] Tommy: Hopefully not.

[1:16:50] Jimi: Hopefully not.

[1:16:53] Tommy: Okay.

[1:16:54] Jimi: All right.

[1:16:56] Tommy: Another day.

[1:16:58] Jimi: Another musical.

[1:17:00] Tommy: Yep.

[1:17:01] Jimi: If you don't get any dollars, sadly.

[1:17:04] Tommy: No, you just get...

[1:17:05] Jimi: Are you...

[1:17:05] Tommy: You're on the pound or the euro?

[1:17:08] Jimi: We're on the pound.

[1:17:09] Tommy: See how...

[1:17:10] Jimi: See how...

[1:17:10] Tommy: Sterling.

[1:17:11] Jimi: I'm...

[1:17:12] Tommy: Amero-centric I am.

[1:17:13] Jimi: I know.

[1:17:14] Tommy: That's fine.

[1:17:15] Jimi: It's fine.

[1:17:16] Tommy: Some shops will take euros. You know, there was a big controversy, and this is one of the reasons why the pound is so strong. The pound is silver-backed. That's why it's sterling.

[1:17:22] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[1:17:27] Tommy: The American money was originally gold-backed. And there's a big problem. And actually, there's... Although there's some debate as to whether or not this is true, there's theory that the original Wizard of Oz actual novel is a political allegory for the competition between the gold standard and the silver standard of the United States.

[1:17:47] Jimi: No way.

[1:17:47] Tommy: Yeah. Boom. Trivia.

[1:17:49] Jimi: As in, like...

[1:17:50] Tommy: Wait, what?

[1:17:51] Jimi: Right?

[1:17:52] Tommy: Only to let that one...

[1:17:54] Jimi: Say it.

[1:17:56] Tommy: What?

[1:17:57] Jimi: I thought... Wait, is Wizard...

[1:17:58] Tommy: No, Wizard of Oz isn't a religious one.

[1:18:01] Jimi: No.

[1:18:01] Tommy: That's Narnia.

[1:18:03] Jimi: Yes.

[1:18:04] Tommy: Cool.

[1:18:06] Jimi: Bye, everyone!

[1:18:07] Tommy: Bye!