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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got John Michael DiResta from Drew University on the pod for our newer listeners. This is another one of our college deep dive episodes where we explore the landscape of the college theatre world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. And this is another one of our rare BA-focused episodes. I know that is not most of your focus out there as listeners, but for the right listener, it is going to be exactly the right focus for you. So I hope you enjoy this episode muchly. And if you're out there and you're just like, gung-ho, I'm being BFA or bust, then great.

Thank you for the download. You can keep it moving if you want to. Maybe spend some time writing a few of those essays for our seniors. Except I will say to all of you out there, if you haven't listened to any of the BA episodes yet, and if you think for sure you are BFA or bust, maybe listen on. Maybe it will just help you confirm your priors of, yes, this is why I wanted what I wanted. Charlie, I told you I wanted BFA, and I did want to BFA, which I think there's real value to that, to be like, okay, so now I see why I wanted what I wanted. But maybe it will also just pique your interest enough that you might add it as another option into the mix, and who knows where things go as we keep exploring.

I don't know, but I think you'll enjoy the conversation either way. I think this is a fun one if it's your first BA episode to listen to. I did get to see a nice group of you out there this weekend at our online junior kickoff. That was so fun, so exciting to see those hungry, young juniors who are really ready to attack their processes. Proud of all of you just for being in there, showing up for yourself as you plan the long horizon of your process. While we were there, my fellow director, Leo Ash Evans, gave everyone the challenge to think about where they wanted to be a year from now. It made me think. It made me remember back, now four years ago, we did a time capsule challenge on one of our episodes a few years back, where I gave all of you a time capsule challenge.

Super fun. A bunch of people did it. It was now a number of years ago, but all of which is just to say, just the same way these episodes are hopefully intended to be somewhat evergreen, or at least successful for a number of years after we record them, hopefully stuff like that is for all of you as well. You're welcome to go back, listen to that, and do the time capsule challenge. I know some of you may be listening very early in your process. You may be in 8th, 9th, 10th grade, 7th grade for some of you out there. Some of you are in 11th grade, and you're really beginning your process in earnest, where some of the stuff you're going to pick up some of the year with us, right? Other listeners right now as we record this may be smack dab in the middle of your process, filming free screens, doing essays, all that kind of stuff as seniors.

Hopefully, you can adjust. You're smart people out there. You can adjust to the parts that are appropriate to you as we do these takeaways or these intros at the top. Even as some of that stuff is pretty time of year specific, you can adjust. If we're talking about Unified's prep and it's not Unified's, you can throw that away for yourself or just ignore it, right? I'm always going to focus most on the classes that are actively in the process, so especially the juniors and seniors, but I always invite you to go back and apply things to your own situation where appropriate. And I say 7th grade, or I say it jokingly at least, because at that same meeting, one of our amazing MTCA parent listeners, a listener of a current senior, did throw the gauntlet down and she said she's MTCA podcast's number one fan, we'll have to see if that's true, but she said she has been listening since her child was in 7th grade and Zane is now a senior, so whatever that math is, four and a half years, right?

Which makes me want to challenge all of you out there, has anyone been listening longer than that? It's possible. We're now in our year six of the podcast, so it's possible some of you have been listening even longer. So this is the challenge. Maybe pop this into a rating and review or comment wherever you listen, wherever you engage with us in a social forum. How many years have you been listening? Can anyone out there beat four and a half years or even four years? Maybe it's only four years for Sima, I'm not sure. How many out there are proudly sporting two plus years of listenership? That's a pretty rare crowd if you're in two plus years. Most people, it's more of a nine month, year-long journey, right?

The truest sickos, the real sickos who need to go to the hospital, are the ones who tell me they've been listening for four years, but their child finished the process two years ago and they keep listening on. That's the one that I'm really worried about. But it's okay. You can come out of the woodwork and confess if that's you. If you're still listening to college episodes and your child finished this two years ago, I think there's something wrong with you. But it's a safe space. Please admit it. You can tell us. We want to know. Other people are here to help. All right. So after you've finished that rating, review, comment, I do really hope you enjoy this interview with John Michael DiResta from Drew University.

[5:01] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by John Michael DiResta. John Michael has a BA in English from Columbia University and an MFA in theater directing from Northwestern University. Lots of work as a director, adapter, playwright, divisor, all kinds of different stuff in terms of professional career. He's taught previously at Skidmore College and now assistant professor of theater arts and directing at Drew University, excuse me, which is located in Madison, New Jersey. Their class size is about 20 to 40. Let's talk about some of the specifics of how they declare their class sizes. And they offer a BA in theater arts. And we'll talk about all the different concentrations. John Michael, welcome on the pod. How are you feeling today?

[5:42] John DiResta: I'm feeling great. I'm actually out in Seattle visiting some family. August in Seattle is a magical, magical place to be and enjoying these last couple moments of summer before it all gets back to reality. Don't tell them that it's August because in the magic of this all, this is going to be releasing in October or whatever, sometime later. It's just a magical place.

[6:01] Charlie Murphy: Oh, it's wonderful. Football, whatever. Okay. Is there anything else you want to know about your bio that you'd want to include in terms of your background, how you came to teach, anything you'd want people to know before we dive into the specifics of Drew?

[6:09] John DiResta: My background actually speaks very directly, I think, to what makes a Drew education and the Drew Theater Department so special. And what I'm about to say next is actually going to seem extremely nonsensical, but I promise I will follow up on this, which is to say I didn't take my first theater class until my first day of graduate school. I often joke about the fact that the first actual academic experience I had was my first day of graduate school at Northwestern. The class was called Advanced Directing and it was taught by Tony Award winner Anna D. Shapiro. And I sat there scared out of my mind because I felt like I faked my way into it. But that is to say that my background is in the liberal arts.

My background is I went to Columbia for English where I studied theater academically within the context of an English department. I then became an education director for both the Theater Development Fund and Manhattan Class Company, MCC Theater in New York, and got an awful lot of learning by doing experience there. My approach to theater, and I think the approach to theater that happens in my university that I'm really excited about, has always been holistic and has always been interdisciplinary and multimodal. And it's really exciting to get to work on that within the context of the liberal arts education that we offer at Drew.

[7:28] Charlie Murphy: What a perfect segue. I don't even need to be here. You just segued yourself into talking about Drew. I love it. So talk to me about, you know, I want to hear the specifics of Drew, but especially more of the shows, the schools on this pod have tended to be somewhere in the BFA world, the BM world. We've had certainly plenty of BAs on the pod, but I would just say a higher percentage, you know, when we're talking about that spectrum of conservatory to liberal arts experience, often we're talking about still only basically half of the spectrum. We're talking about the conservatory conservatories, where it's really rigid, four years, that's everything. And then we talk a lot about the BFA liberal arts, where there's, you know, some choice.

You might get a double major even, but it's still pretty structured. Talk to me about, like, where would you put yourself on the spectrum in relation to that BFA? And then just kind of the liberal arts approach in general. And then I'd love to hear specifically, yeah, let's talk about the curriculum at Drew.

[8:15] John DiResta: I've taught in a variety of different programs. I've taught in BA programs, BS programs, BFA programs, MFA programs. I've run the gamut in my teaching. So I've gotten to experience a lot of different environments. And what I have loved about my time at Drew so far is that when I think about a BA program in a liberal arts college, I think about a more theoretical approach. I think about a more perhaps historical scholarly approach to studying theater that's much more rooted in academics. And when I think about a BFA, I think about something that is more industry focused, something that is ready to get students working in the biz. And we are both. And it is the first institution I've taught at where I've really felt that that's true.

Our students get a really rigorous liberal arts education in the craft of theater, the history of theater, the art form of theater. And our students have enormous opportunities to work within the industry at a variety of professional theaters before they graduate and to get credit for it. So our students graduate industry ready, which is really exciting. I got an email from a student yesterday who graduated in May. She's been hired as the education director at a theater in New Hampshire. Hi, Cece. We're so proud of you. So that sort of work happens very, very constantly. And I can talk a little bit more about that. And I have students who write senior theses on theater theory in relationship to the production work that they're doing. So we get a real broad gamut there. And that is, I think, perhaps the most exciting part about a Drew education in theater.

[9:48] Charlie Murphy: I love it. So well said. And just for newer listeners who are really learning about this process from the whole, again, if we're looking at that full spectrum of maybe even a non-university conservatory, but where it's just you're spending acting, singing, dancing all day. It's just learning about theater, right? To the far end of this or sort of learning how to do theater. Excuse me. I said that wrong there. Learning how to do the technique. And then there's the very far, far right end of the spectrum where it's maybe just theory, just learning about theater. You're saying you're somewhere maybe on that three quarters, one quarter in this direction of where you're going. You are still going to learn about theater.

You're going to learn about the broader, but some of the how as well, not just the about, but some of the sort of technical how, but it's not going to be all how the way a more conservatory BFA would be like. And we define how really broadly, which I think is another thing that's really exciting. Our students graduate having taken enormous amount of acting classes, dance classes, voice classes, movement classes. They graduate with the opportunity to get something resembling a conservatory training from our really extraordinary faculty. But we also define how as being in residence at equity theater companies, observing, being in the room, watching things happen. And I can talk a little bit more as we go on about what we offer beyond performance in terms of our stage management and design and all of those programs. But we define how really holistically, which I think is really exciting.

[11:06] John DiResta: Give me more of the holistic. I love, I want to hear more specifics of that kind of apprenticeship model or the observation in terms of the work itself, but also just from a class perspective, what does that look like when, because theater is so broad, especially when you're your theater arts and it could be, am I lighting? Am I stage managing? Am I acting? Am I directing? So how broad and holistic and how does that work in terms of the way your curriculum might actually go?

[11:28] John DiResta: I'll just sort of offer a couple case studies. I'm thinking about some of our seniors this year who are about to graduate. And I'm thinking about one of our students who's directing their senior thesis is doing an adaptation of Richard III. Last year, he acted in a production of Henry VI. He's also really involved with the comedy group on campus. He's also a playwright who has done the full playwriting complement of classes and is working this summer at a regional theater in New Jersey doing administrative work. So that is just sort of one example of the variety of hows that a student gets. I'm thinking about the student that I directed in You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown last year who played Schroeder.

And they have gone on to do an enormous amount of acting and musical theater and classical theater within our program. And then went to London and studied theater history for a semester in London. And this summer is interning in theater administration at the Bushwick Star for a credit-bearing program with us and is getting the on-the-ground training there as well. So we have innumerable students like that. And that's not even getting into the theaters that we are formally in residence at. We have innumerable students who are having that really, really broad education while still having the opportunity to focus on the areas that are most important to them.

[12:39] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. And as you know, of course, each student is going to be different. But when you define the sort of typical Drew student, is it somebody who comes in at 18 and says, I know I'm interested in these three or four specific multi-hyphenate areas where I know I want to be a director, writer, producer, or whatever? Is it that? Or is it more people who are going, I know I love theater. I'm not even sure. I might want to explore my hyphens. And I don't quite know which hyphen. How much are students coming and saying, I know I want to design this major because I know what I want versus going, I know I love theater. I want to be exposed to it. How do you sort of define that with Drew?

[13:09] John DiResta: It's both. And they really play nicely together, which is really exciting. Again, when I directed You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown last year, I think about the young woman who played Sally, who was a first year, who got cast as Sally in her first semester of undergraduate because she just smoked her audition and was so impressive. She's also on the varsity golf team and has time to both be on the varsity golf team and be one of our absolute varsity players in the musical theater program. So we are a school that has room for both of those things. She showed up ready to work. She had this clear goal. She wants to be a swing and a Broadway tour after she graduates. She's on track for that. And she's extremely, extremely excited about that.

And I think about the young man who played Snoopy in You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown last year, who did just a remarkable job and had done plenty of musical theater at Drew and was also a visual artist and also a creative writer and is now getting his MFA in poetry from Columbia University. So there is that real variety of different types of students who are working. And what's most exciting to me is those students feed each other. Those students actually really help each other do.

[14:12] John DiResta: The type of student that thrives in a BA program at Drew University is someone who is curious and passionate about theater. They should be willing to explore various aspects of theater arts, including acting, directing, and playwriting. It's important for students to be open to collaboration and to engage with their peers and faculty in a meaningful way.

[14:42] John DiResta: At Drew, we prepare our students for life after college by providing them with a well-rounded education that emphasizes both practical skills and critical thinking. Our curriculum is designed to help students develop their artistic voice while also equipping them with the tools they need to navigate the professional world.

[14:52] John DiResta: The admission process at Drew is fairly straightforward. We look for students who demonstrate a strong commitment to their craft and who have a genuine interest in the theater. This includes submitting an application, a personal statement, and an audition or portfolio, depending on their area of focus.

[15:02] John DiResta: One of the unique aspects of our BA Theater Program is the flexibility it offers. Students can choose to major in theater while also pursuing a minor in another discipline, allowing them to tailor their education to their interests and career goals. This interdisciplinary approach enriches their learning experience.

[15:12] John DiResta: We also encourage students to take advantage of internships and practical experiences during their time at Drew. These opportunities help them build connections in the industry and gain valuable hands-on experience that will serve them well after graduation.

[15:22] John DiResta: Our faculty members are dedicated to mentoring students and providing them with personalized guidance throughout their academic journey. We believe that strong relationships between students and faculty are essential for fostering growth and success.

[15:32] John DiResta: In addition to our rigorous academic program, we offer a variety of performance opportunities, including mainstage productions, student-directed projects, and workshops. These experiences allow students to apply what they've learned in the classroom to real-world situations.

[15:42] John DiResta: We also emphasize the importance of community engagement and collaboration. Students are encouraged to participate in outreach programs and to work with local theaters, which helps them develop a sense of responsibility and connection to the broader artistic community.

[15:52] John DiResta: Overall, our goal at Drew University is to cultivate well-rounded artists who are prepared to thrive in the ever-evolving landscape of theater and the performing arts. We want our students to leave with not only the skills they need but also the confidence to pursue their passions.

[16:02] John DiResta: The BA program is designed to be both challenging and supportive, providing students with the resources they need to succeed. We believe that every student has the potential to make a meaningful impact in the world of theater.

[16:12] John DiResta: As students progress through the program, they will have the opportunity to explore various genres and styles of theater, which helps them develop a diverse skill set. This versatility is crucial in today's competitive job market.

[16:22] John DiResta: We also encourage students to take risks and to push their creative boundaries. This is an essential part of the artistic process, and we want our students to feel empowered to express themselves authentically.

[16:32] John DiResta: The admission process is designed to identify students who not only have talent but also a strong work ethic and a desire to learn. We want to see that they are committed to their growth as artists.

[16:42] John DiResta: Once admitted, students can expect a supportive environment where they can explore their interests and develop their skills. Our faculty is here to guide them every step of the way.

[16:52] John DiResta: We also have a strong alumni network that provides current students with valuable connections and mentorship opportunities. This network is an invaluable resource as students transition from college to the professional world.

[17:02] John DiResta: In conclusion, Drew University's BA Theater Program is an excellent choice for students who are passionate about theater and eager to learn. We are committed to helping our students succeed both during their time at Drew and in their future careers.

[17:12] John DiResta: If you have any questions about the program or the admission process, I encourage you to reach out. We're here to help and support you on your journey.

[17:22] John DiResta: Thank you for taking the time to learn more about Drew University and our Theater Arts program. We look forward to welcoming you to our community of artists and scholars.

[28:24] John DiResta: You know, an enormous amount of local work that allows her to stay home and be with her family and be close to where she is. But she also has the tools and the skill set to enter that ecosystem there. And we have students who graduate extremely enthusiastic about applying for MFA programs. And it's something that is really exciting from my perspective, in particular with our acting students who are less focused on musical theater, working with them to prepare for MFA acting programs, working with them to put their audition materials together, working with them to sort of give them the lay of the land. I think our students graduate prepared for MFA acting and in just extremely profound and real ways.

They're really exciting. We also have students who are really passionate about writing musical theater. And that's one of the things that's most exciting about working at Drew. I had a student last spring at the end of the year who was just like, Oh yeah, my musical is done. I didn't even know they were writing a musical. But we have students who are constantly producing from that perspective who graduate either thinking about MFA writing programs, MFA thinking about BMI, thinking along those lines, or who are thinking digitally. And we have a lot of students who are thinking digitally right now about what is the world that I'm graduating into in which my online presence is extremely important and the way in which I am bridging the gap between comedy and performance, between sketch comedy and classical theater, things along those lines.

Our students are really wrestling with that. And that part is really, really interesting and exciting for me. We graduate a number of students every year who I see go off really ready for the industry, really ready to sort of take things by storm and do things on their own terms. And it has been really exciting in my first two years to see a student who has returned home to where they're from and has begun working in the local equity theater there. That part is really exciting. I am so interested as we think about the showcase and what is that, and should we be doing that, and how are we doing that. And I think one of the things that's really interesting is the showcase in relationship to the conversations about the liberal arts holistic approach to teaching.

How do we culminate? And it's been really exciting to work with your students to see them go off in myriad different ways there. I love it. I mean, you're not going to tempt me into a showcase conversation because I spent so much of last season. We did like a whole deep dive on showcases though. It's really interesting. And it's, you know, even the way now industry meet students and understanding the idea of multi hyphenate possibilities and what am I signing you as? And you could be, you know, as a manager, I'm like, you could be doing four different things. And they're like, I'm interested in representing your career. So many interesting things we can talk about there, but we're not going to talk about them in this very episode because I've done too much of it.

Give me a little bit of context on, I'd love to hear outside of the theater program, you know, the broader Drew University, what am I going to get? So from an academic perspective, from a campus perspective, what is the experience of going to Drew outside of the theater program? We are a small college where everybody knows everybody. We are an extremely tight knit community. We are often referred to as the woods. Drew is in an extremely wooded campus in Madison, New Jersey. So we're sort of like that last moment of New Jersey where we're still suburban, but you just go another 20 minutes and we're in the rural part of New Jersey, 30 minutes. So when I came to do my campus visit, when I was applying for this job, I just remember parking and I was just breathtaking.

It took my breath away being on campus. The campus dates back to the 19th century. We were originally a seminary and many of those original buildings still exist. So we do have a real sense of history and a real sense of place and uniqueness on campus. We have an incredibly robust student club and association environment on campus. One of my favorite stories about Drew is in my first couple weeks there, I was seeing all of these signs for Drew football, Drew football, come see Drew football, come see the Drew football team do this. I didn't realize that we don't have a football team and that's what the improv troop has named themselves. And I think that that's extremely on brand for Drew's kind of humor.

We are nerdy in that way. We are artsy in that way. We are the kind of place where we're like, hey, we don't have a football team. So let's call the improv troop, the football team. And they will, exactly, exactly. Yeah. And the football team, I mean, seeing a sign that says Drew football presents Macbeth and then they're doing an improvised version of the Scottish play. That's very on brand for who we are. That's the kind of students that we produce. The Scottish plays, what you call after the huddles, we're doing the Scottish play. Exactly. We can say it. We can say it on the internet. I'm not in the theater right now. So I feel pretty interested. The Scottish play, we're not saying the name.

It's fine. We can say the allusion to it. I love it. The last question, then we'll talk a little bit more about the admissions side of things is just cost. I'm seeing tuition of about $50,000 on there. How, you know, as the students talk about all the different ways that they come down from that higher sticker price, is it mostly about academics? Are they getting anything from an artistic perspective from your department? Is it mostly need-based? How do we get potentially scholarships in there for Drew? 80% of our students receive some form of financial aid. So we, you know, what we are constantly saying is the price tag should not be a detriment to students applying and to students being involved.

Once students are on campus, one of the things that I think is that really makes Drew unique, we have a student support system on our campus that is just staggering to me. Our students get advisors from the jump and I, you know, I recognize that you just asked about tuition and I'm going to answer this by talking about something a little bit different, but this is relevant. All of our first year students take what's called a DSEM, a Drew seminar, which is a seminar and which is basically an introduction to college, how to be a college student, and you get to pick your topic. So I often, you know, I have a colleague, my colleague Chris teaches a class, an acting class on acting and truth that is a Drew seminar.

I teach a class about queer performance in the 80s that is a Drew seminar. It's a way for students to get involved on campus and then you also create a safety net through that because you have your students and you have your faculty member who's also your advisor, which I bring up to say that part of what we're doing also there is we're helping with things like financial aid, with FAFSAs, with helping students renew their scholarships, find new scholarships, things along those lines. We have within our department individual funding that is arts-based. We also have college-wide funding, scholarship opportunities, things along those lines, and as I said, 80 percent of students receive aid in some way.

So, you know, as I have heard you talk about so many times on this pod, that sticker shock number is it's kind of like an airline ticket where it's like, well, there's lots of ways to fly and there are different ways in which that price actually winds up being. Yeah, it's for the rich people to pay that. You can afford it, you know. Yeah, we've occasionally had students where they go, I can afford it. I'm turning down my scholarships. We're like, that's why the price is what it is. It's for you people. Yeah, I love it. All right, we'll take a quick break and on the back end we'll dive into the admission process. So all right, we are back with John Michael DiResta and we're talking about the admission process for Drew.

So holistically, the same way that you beautifully gave me the, you know, a little bit of the what is the liberal arts from a spectrum perspective, talk to me about, you know, when you say we're not an audition-based school, which is true of a lot of theatre programs, that they're not quote-unquote audition-based, but you're going to do these recruitment events. Just from the consideration of admission, what percentage, if you were to say percentage, is what we would call academic versus artistic? So how much does the artistic, whether they're sending you something in, whether you're seeing something, how does that weigh into their admission? Is it a, you know, a five percent factor, a ten percent factor?

You might not have a number, but basically how does it weigh in when you say we're not audition-based, it's going to be about your academics, but what does that mean in terms of how you'd actually get admitted to Drew? I'm going to be a little bit of a politician here, but what I will say is in terms of this conversation about how much of it is artistic, how much of it is academic, at Drew the artistic is academic and that's one of the things that I love most about teaching there. As a tenure-line professor who'll stand for tenure in a couple years, my artistic work is considered scholarship and that's not true at every institution. We are a school where artistry and academics are synonymous, so it's a little bit hard to put a percentage on it in terms of like, well, 30 percent of it is how well you sing in that video you sent in in 70, you know, 30 percent of it is your SAT score and 40 percent of it is your GPA.

Because we're such a small school, every application is individually read, every application is individually evaluated and assessed. We also have an admissions officer, Steve Rubin, hi Steve, who is specifically working with theater students. Steve is a theater person himself, so he really speaks the language of it and he's there to advise potential theater students who are coming in. So to get to your question in terms of how much does each of them matter, I would actually really encourage students as you're applying not to think so much along the lines of, okay well my SAT scores aren't quite as much as I want them to be, but my GPA is here, but man my audition is really fantastic, so that's going to get me some points over there, and actually to think instead about how can you talk about the way in which your audition materials, how can you think about the way in which your audition materials are in dialogue with the work that you've done in school?

What is something on stage you've done that's really excited you? What is something in class that you've done that's really excited you? How do those two things communicate with each other? Because that's the basis of a Drew education, and that is what makes us unique, and we're really interested in accepting students who can speak to that relationship. There is no ideal Drew student. There is no model that we look for, and of course I know every institution says this, but because we don't have as our end goal, hey let's make sure that a certain percentage of our graduating class winds up cast in a national tour, we really don't have an ideal Drew student. I think about the student who joined us from rural Kentucky a couple years ago who came with a completely different life experience, and I think about our student who has lived on the Jersey Shore their whole life, and the way in which those two students were in dialogue, their admissions portfolios were completely different, and they speak to each other in really organic holistic ways, and that's what we're looking for.

I love it. It's a perfectly good answer, and I never expect to actually get a percentage when I ask for a percentage, but what also you're telling me there is that it seemed like there's a single point of entry from the holistic perspective if it's being evaluated. It's being evaluated as a whole, as opposed to some of the BFA programs where it's like you have to get in academically, and then it's all artistic after that, or somewhere they go the academics really don't matter. It's all artistic from the jump, but even where some of them where they're really considering both, it's often an academic experience that is completely separate from the audition, and you're saying that we're not separating these out there.

The academic is your audition. The artistic is your audition, is your application, is your academics in a singular process, and to be completely honest, we do a lot of recruitment events. We will often be in Trenton. We'll often do some of these recruitment events, but the thing that I really want students to know is those events are as much about you learning about us as it is us learning about you. Admissions is just like auditions. I always say students who are auditioning for a play, there's three steps to auditions, and I only have control over one of them. First, you decide whether to audition, then I decide whether to cast you, and then you decide whether to accept the role, so you actually have way more power over this than I do.

College admissions works the same way, and I really encourage students to think about it from that perspective. You are deciding where to apply. You are deciding which offer to accept. We're only making one of those three decisions, so at these recruitment events, we are there to let you know about us and for you to get a better idea as to what we offer. That is also really helpful for them to hear the idea that even if they're performing monologues in front of you, that might not be a hugely impactful audition experience for you. What can be confusing to these students is they may be there with you and other schools who are auditioning them in a more real way, though what I would say about what you said, and I can say it to you because you're saying it out loud where other schools won't, for many of those other schools who are even nominally auditioning you, there still is a high level of college fair experience.

They are so really recruiting, even if it feels like they're going, we're here to audition you. A big percentage of what that is true for a lot of schools is we're here to tell you about you, that it is a two-way process, even you're saying literally it's a two-way process. Some of these schools will say, no, it's an audition, but then callback is me as the professor telling you all about my school because it's like they're really still pitching you. So just to say that from a broader perspective, that is not unique, that the students should be there auditioning themselves, meaning going, who do I like? All right, I'm off my soapbox. Let's talk more about the academic side of things. Can you just place for those who don't know Drew University well in terms of what would be the academic standards of the school, in terms of where does it live?

You don't have to give me again a number or a ranking, but where does it live in terms of what a GPA might look like, what SATs might look like, what kind of things would be considered from the academic perspective? Again, not to be a politician, but our admissions process, her admissions process is so bespoke. The averages are out there, a student can Google. I actually don't even want to give the numbers because I've worked with so many students who are so far away from some of those numbers. Either that their SAT scores or their GPAs were so far above or so far below what we publish because we are, because we are so small, we are really thinking about the dialogue that's happening on campus once students arrive.

So what I would say for students that are applying, the thing that is important to us when we're looking at potential Drew students, what really, really matters to us is do you have a passion? Is there something that you're passionate about? Whether it's, you know, it might be theater, it might be sociology of the immigrant experience, it might be biochem, whatever that happens to be, are you passionate about it? And are you the kind of thinker that wants that passion to be informed by a wide portfolio of opportunities? Because within the course of our very, very rigorous curriculum and students will be taking courses across our campus.

[45:06] John DiResta: In terms of what is going to be holistically considered, can you just talk about like what are the things you know? And you don't have to give all the tips and tricks to put this in your essay or whatever, but what are the things that you're factoring in? Are you looking at grades? Are you looking at test scores? Are you looking at essays? When the students have the option to send in supplemental materials, what do you want in an artistic aspect of that? It seems it could be pretty broadly supplemental depending on what you're interested in theater. Talk to me about what goes into the application and that you'd be considering in total.

[45:39] John DiResta: One of the things I like most about this is every spring, I get the email from the admissions department with the link to the Airtable file in which we have the monologues and the songs, and I'm asked to just offer feedback. One of the things I really love about our admissions department is I'm not asked to evaluate numerically. I'm just asked to offer a qualitative assessment of what I'm seeing. That's really exciting, and this happens at the same time that we are evaluating the arts-based scholarships. So we think about admissions and scholarships in the same breath, with a simultaneity. What I look for when I'm looking at that supplemental material that is sent to me is I'm looking for a uniqueness of point of view. I'm looking for a student who has figured out a little bit who they are and is able to present themselves in that way.

[46:21] John DiResta: We had one video last year from a student who did this monologue, and the monologue was very impressive. It was very technically adroit. It really understood, okay, I'm here, I'm telling a story, this is how you do a monologue, great. And then in their next video, they sent this spoken word poetry that had movement attached to it. That is the kind of thing that is so unique to the liberal arts experience that we're able to see that and say, wow, that's not gonna fit into any of our main stage shows. We are not producing a hip-hop musical within the next couple of years, and what this student is gonna bring to a class discussion is extraordinary. This student is going to bring to a broader dialogue what this student is gonna bring to my colleague Kimani's Afrofusion dance class. Yes, this is the kind of student that we are really looking to welcome into our community.

[47:17] John DiResta: So what I would encourage students—and I'll speak only for our school though, I think this is the thing to think about holistically—what I encourage students to do in that material is to really sit back and think about who am I? What is it that makes me special? Why am I someone that people want to do table work with? Why am I someone that people are gonna want to do contact improv with? And how can I tell that story through a very, very short recorded video? Those are the ones that get me really excited.

[47:43] Charlie Murphy: I love it. That's great advice, and I think you've simultaneously used the words simultaneity and adroit in the same sentence for the first time in this podcast. The academic level of this podcast just went up a lot from the BFA world.

[47:59] Charlie Murphy: The last question I want to throw out there was just the idea of, you know, we mentioned this—we were talking about the intro—of like how you have an intended class size of we're getting exactly 30 students coming in as BA, 30 theater arts majors. Can you talk about that process of what it is after you've been accepted to school, after you've joined the school, in terms of how you would become a theater arts major with a dance minor or a musical theater minor? How that process goes to find your majors and your minors at Drew?

[48:26] John DiResta: If you are in when the student is admitted to Drew, if you stand up and say, "I'm a theater person," BAM! You're a theater person. It's done, and we will worry about the details of that later. Our major is so broad and so wide that there's a place for everybody within. So we have students who arrive in the fall of their first year ready to audition, ready to be on stage, excited. They finish the diploma requirements by the beginning of their junior year. The major is complete, then they're just taking electives, they're doing internships, they're in New York. That happens so fast that it's thrilling and exciting.

[49:03] John DiResta: We have students who halfway through sophomore year think, well, I have to fulfill my arts requirement, I guess I'll take theater design because I like to draw, and I sort of worked in a carpentry shop somewhere and it was fun. So I guess I'll take theater design, and then a year later, they're minoring in theater and they're doing the scenic design for a student. You know, those are both paths to assimilation within the theater program at Drew that are equally valid, and we welcome students in both ways.

[49:33] John DiResta: We do a thing at Drew that I really love. At the end of the academic year, we do a senior toast, and we split up all the majors and minors amongst the faculty, and each faculty gives a toast to each of the graduating seniors. Everybody cries, and it's really wonderful. It's been one of my most special experiences. I had a student a couple of years ago who was a big fan of RuPaul's Drag Race, and instead of giving him a toast, I roasted him. We have relationships like that with our students, which I'm really thrilled for. What's always exciting to me in that moment is I look at the students that I'm toasting and I think, wow, that student who was the lead freshman fall, and wow, that student who just declared a theater minor at the end of their junior year. There's room within that for everybody to make work together, which I really love.

[50:21] Charlie Murphy: I love it. All right, well, let's wrap with a little bit of advice for the parents in this process. We've plenty of parent listeners, many of whom may be going, "Oh, I hope my child picks the more academic path and this silly BFA that they all want to do." Talk to me about what advice would you have for parents guiding their children through this process, maybe especially children in this process who, like yourself, were not a hundred percent sold at 16 years old if I want to be a performer or whatever that kind of thing. So how would you advise parents in terms of guiding their children through this business?

[50:49] John DiResta: I think a lot about our location in this respect, and I would encourage parents in particular to think geographically because the fact that we have such access to New York City and our students go home every night is, I know, extremely attractive to many students and to many parents. So my advice for parents is to really think geographically and really think about, like, okay, I know my child. Where is my child going to be happiest going to bed at night? What is the place that is right for them in terms of where are they gonna lay their head at night? And that's different for everybody.

[51:30] John DiResta: I think back to my college admissions program and I think about how I went to college in Manhattan, but I also applied to colleges in extremely rural places. I think back on that, like, wow, I could have used a little bit more guidance from the universe. What is the geography that's gonna be right for your young person? And that's different for everybody. So that's one thing that I really encourage parents to think about.

[51:56] John DiResta: The other thing that I really encourage parents to think about is I think that college is career preparation, and a good college degree will graduate you career-ready. That's one of the things that's really exciting about our department. We graduate students who are career-ready, yes, as performers, but also in so many other ways, some of which are not freelance ways, some of which are jobs that are full-time salaried positions at theater companies, which is important to many graduating students. An undergraduate theater degree, or sorry, an undergraduate degree of any form, also has to prepare you for your change in career. It has to carry you to pivot, especially in a world where things are changing so quickly.

We have no idea what the next 15 years look like. So many of us will be changing careers; many of us will be changing the way in which we put food on the table and fulfill ourselves spiritually. A good undergraduate degree prepares you for that change, and I think that that is something that within the liberal arts we have real access to.

[52:53] Charlie Murphy: Beautifully said. Prepared to pivot, we must all be, God forbid, the next couple of years, what the technology is about to do to our industry and our whole world. We have no idea. But we can't dive into that either. We don't have time. We have to wrap this thing within—we're doing okay. We said for about 45 minutes per interview. We're doing okay. I'm not achieving my goals of keeping these shorter because I always want to chat.

[53:07] Charlie Murphy: I was gonna have a chat, and we're having fun. But if people do want more information, they're like, "Charlie, I wanted this to be a three-hour podcast." Where would you send them? You like websites, social media? Where's the best place for people to find out more information on Drew?

[53:21] John DiResta: Again, drew.edu. That's our website, and within there, you can find our theater department website, which has links to all of our social media. The other thing I would really encourage anyone who's interested in Drew to do, again, because we are so small, reach out to us directly. We are not like a hospital; you won't be on hold forever. You will get to talk with a human being very, very quickly. We have a really dedicated admissions team that exists across campus that individually tailors and caters to each department. So my advice to anyone who's even remotely interested: go to our website and then just be in touch. Shoot us an email. You can look at our theater department page; you can look at our individual pages.

All of our contact info is up on the Drew.edu theater department faculty list. We're excited to talk with you. We really love speaking with potential students. Come visit us on campus, come to an event, come see. I hope I think that the timing on this might actually work. We're producing Heathers: The Musical this fall. Come see Heathers this fall. We will be running at the end of October, so we'd love to welcome students to that. Come see a dance show, come see a student-directed show. We really love welcoming people to campus, and once you're here, look for us, introduce yourselves. We're really excited to speak with potential students.

[54:39] Charlie Murphy: I love it. That was great. And yes, your timing is perfect on that. Almost certainly will be released in time for that. And I will say anyone listening this deep in the episode is almost certainly interested in Drew at least somewhat. If you made it 52 minutes in or whatever it'll be. I know John, Michael, it was so great to get to chat with you. Thanks.

[54:54] John DiResta: Yeah, this has been such a blast. And to everyone listening who's in this process right now, good luck. Be kind to yourself, be nice to yourself, and have as much fun with this as you can.

[55:11] Charlie Murphy: Yes, yes, yes. I really enjoyed that conversation with John Michael. But okay, I don't know if I should be saying John or John Michael in this case professionally. I know he goes by John Michael D'Aresta, three names, but in a podcast casual referral kind of situation, I think I should be saying John. Except, of course, this is a professional representation of him in this episode, so I want to call him how he wants to be called using that good training we all learned in 2020-21. So instead, I'm just gonna stumble over it every time.

[56:02] Charlie Murphy: So if you catch me as we go through this takeaway thing, either John Michael or John, that's what's going up in my head. And they're going, should I just use all three names? And I will not do Mr. D'Aresta. I can't do it. I'm old, but I'm not old enough that I'm gonna start giving people Mr. and Mrs. or Ms. Fascinatingly enough, this is a little side tangent: my child's kindergarten teacher goes by just Brian, just first name, as do all the teachers, even the principal in the school. Just goes by one name, no honorifics, even playing field. It's very interesting.

[56:11] Charlie Murphy: Okay, so for that, I guess let's go John for now. So if it's wrong, apologies. That should be John Michael, but I think John is what he goes by professionally. So we're gonna go John. John, I enjoyed speaking with you very much. Let's get into some takeaways. I thought he gave a great breakdown of BFAs versus BAs in terms of how they tend to function. Very clear, helpful. I think especially to any newer listeners out there, helpful just to hear that general distinction. And then I thought he gave a really nice pitch in saying, "Hey, we do both," right? Kind of saying like we do the best of both, right? That Drew kind of represents the perfect balance between the how and the what.

[56:48] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. Today, we’re diving deep into Drew University with Assistant Professor of Theater Arts, John DiResta. John, thank you for joining us.

[57:18] John DiResta: Thanks for having me, Charlie. I'm excited to be here and talk about what makes Drew University special for theater students.

[57:48] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely! So, let’s start with the type of student that thrives in a BA program at Drew. What qualities do you look for in prospective students?

[57:58] John DiResta: We really look for students who are passionate about theater and are eager to learn. It’s important that they have a collaborative spirit because our program emphasizes teamwork and creativity. We want students who are open to exploring different aspects of theater, from acting to technical work.

[58:08] Charlie Murphy: That makes sense. How does a Drew student prepare for life after college? What kind of support do you provide?

[58:18] John DiResta: We focus on a well-rounded education that not only hones their artistic skills but also prepares them for the professional world. We have strong connections with industry professionals, and we encourage internships and networking opportunities. Our students leave with a solid portfolio and practical experience.

[58:28] Charlie Murphy: That’s great to hear. Can you walk us through the admission process? What should students expect?

[58:38] John DiResta: Sure! The admission process includes an application, a personal statement, and an audition. We look for students to showcase their talents through monologues or songs, and we also consider their academic records. It’s a holistic review, so we want to see the whole person.

[58:48] Charlie Murphy: And how does the major and minor work within the BA Theater Program?

[58:58] John DiResta: Students can major in Theater Arts and have the option to minor in other disciplines. This flexibility allows them to explore interests outside of theater, which can be beneficial in their overall education and career.

[59:08] Charlie Murphy: That’s a fantastic approach. What are some unique opportunities that Drew offers its theater students?

[59:18] John DiResta: We have a variety of performance opportunities, including main stage productions and student-directed shows. Additionally, we host workshops with visiting artists, which gives students a chance to learn from professionals in the field.

[59:28] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a vibrant community. How does Drew foster that sense of community among theater students?

[59:38] John DiResta: We emphasize collaboration and support. Students often work together on projects, and we encourage them to attend each other's performances. This creates a tight-knit environment where everyone feels valued and inspired.

[59:48] Charlie Murphy: That’s wonderful. What advice would you give to students preparing for their college auditions?

[59:58] John DiResta: I would say to be authentic. Choose pieces that resonate with you personally and showcase your unique voice. Also, practice is key—be prepared to take direction and be open to feedback during the audition process.

[1:00:08] Charlie Murphy: Great advice! Lastly, what do you hope students take away from their experience at Drew?

[1:00:18] John DiResta: I hope they leave with a strong sense of self as artists and the confidence to pursue their dreams. We want them to be adaptable and ready for whatever challenges they may face in the industry.

[1:00:28] Charlie Murphy: Thank you, John. It’s been a pleasure discussing Drew University and the theater program with you.

[1:00:38] John DiResta: Thank you, Charlie. I appreciate the opportunity to share about our program.

[1:00:48] Charlie Murphy: If anyone has questions about the college audition process or wants to learn more about MTCA, feel free to reach out to us at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com.

[1:00:58] John DiResta: Absolutely! We're here to help.

[1:01:08] Charlie Murphy: Thanks for listening, everyone. Until next time!