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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, it's Charlie from the future, which is now the past. I'm recording this little intro as an episode topper, even though maybe it should have been an insert into the episode, or maybe even an ending, because what I'm about to say is, of course, a giant spoiler. If you're listening to this episode, you may already know that Emma recently announced her Broadway debut coming up soon in Wicked as Glinda, and I'll bet if I didn't say anything in this topper, you would wonder when she tells an audition story that she's about to tell in this episode if it is, in fact, that audition. So I wanted to confirm for you all that it is, in fact, that audition. I reached out to Emma after the episode, emailed her, and she said, yes, that is, in fact, the audition, with a lot of exclamation points and funny emojis.

That may spoil some of the fun of this reveal, so I'm sorry for spoiling it for you, but I think it will help you in hearing the interview itself. Emma's going to tell you a story about having the worst audition ever, how this was a really bad audition. No, no, a seriously, actually, not like joking, a really bad audition, and then we're going to talk about it in the truth of that context, which is what she was experiencing that day. And that's not to dismiss the experience of having really bad auditions, which, of course, does happen, and some people really do bomb in auditions. Obviously, that couldn't happen, but just to introduce the idea that even as professionals, and Emma is certainly a professional at this point, we're not always the best judges of our own experience.

Emma is judging that audition against her years of expectation, probably since she was 15, 16, 17 herself, of how she would do in a Glinda audition, if it ever came, and how she might have that day felt like she came up short of that expectation. But obviously, these auditors were able to see through that, see through what might not have been her absolute best that she possibly can do, but also see how perfect Emma is as Glinda, which, of course, she will be, and I can't wait to root her on. And I say all that for our young listeners, whether you're still in college, right out of college, with their early professional auditions, when you have those, and even our high school auditionees, too, who are hearing this, who I think always spend way too much time trying to parse out the meaning of their post-audition experiences.

If you're listening to this right after I happen to be recording this, you may have just finished Unifieds, and a huge part of what you will say made an audition good or bad will be about some pretty irrelevant stuff that might be said to you behind the table, right? Which, when you're talking about scheduled auditions with schools, meaning non-walk-in auditions, these are scheduled auditions that you've applied in advance, the difference between what is said or not said behind the table will normally have much more to do with how a school chooses to conduct auditions than how well or badly you actually did, right? And also, I think it's worth adding in what we can learn from Emma here, that adding in the weight of stakes and expectations, if this is a huge audition for you, if this is a dream school, that that might color your experience of how you did, which it likely does for Emma here.

So again, as you listen on to what I think is a really great interview and a beautifully vulnerable experience that Emma shares, I just want to give you that little flash forward that a TV show sometimes does, so that you know the ending as you're experiencing the episode. Let that fact, let that truth wash over you, as you also hear the emotional truth and the reality of what she's saying, with you now knowing what you know. And maybe for yourself, just think about the ways that we do this to ourselves as artists all the time. I hope you enjoy.

[3:30] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping the College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Emma Flynn Bespolka, nay Emma Flynn, on the show. For our newer listeners, in these artist exploration episodes, we aim to explore the paths to success that artists have forged and are still forging, in Emma's case, and tease out how that theatrical training helped them to blaze that trail. And this is another one of our MTCA alumni interviews with a young artist who is basically in the shoes that many of our young listeners are right now, whether you're in late high school or college, just a few short years ago, and how Emma has really managed to forge a successful early career.

And we really are now starting to find success in our goal of having more and more young people on the pod. I really do think it's helpful to mix those in to just help you get a different perspective from a younger person. I mean, Emma was, of course, a delight to chat with. I can't wait for you to hear the interview. And I really do think sounds different from the perspective that you're hearing when you hear from a Jesse Mueller or a Celia Keenan-Bolger, who also are wonderful guests. But just Emma is generationally a bit younger and generationally just different in her experience of a BFA program and the career that she's entering into. You're going to hear a different perspective, and I think a really helpful one.

We do get into some really big conversations about how to be holistically successful in your career. And we talk about one of Emma's bad auditions that she just came from right before the pod, which was kind of fun to have that relevant experience and a fun conversation. And for those watching the video, you will notice that I'm, again, filming this from my childhood bedroom in Pittsburgh. This was filmed a few weeks back now, which is why you're also going to hear a bit of a departure from this runner that we've been doing lately. If you're a regular listener on self-discovery, we've been having a bunch of different conversations about how to discover who you are. And we're going to have at least two more episodes on that, both of which are recorded already.

So you'll get to hear those in the coming weeks before we're likely to give that a bit of a rest on that particular runner. Just so you know, sometimes we do record in different orders than how we release them. Not that you're too interested in how the sausage gets made of a podcast, but that's why that happened that way, because the runner had not yet existed when we filmed this episode. Speaking of timely announcements and timeliness, just a reminder that tonight is our next Meet MTCA workshop. That's that free workshop, which is a great chance to meet me via webinar and get a sense of what MTCA does. You'll learn about the process and the artistic expectations, especially the process. Make a bit of a game plan for yourself, or if it's a loved one that you're listening for, who might be considering embarking on this process, you get to make a little bit of a game plan from that evening.

But that is only relevant if you listen to the episodes on drop day, which is of course Wednesday at midnight. If so, it's tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern, and there's still time to register for the Meet MTCA workshop at mtca.com. There's a little banner at the top. If not, and it's no longer Wednesday where you're listening, then you are fully too late, and I invite you to catch the next one. Or you can still head to mtca.com and sign up for initial consultation to begin your own personal journey with MTCA, as Emma did all those many moons ago. Okay, that's it. I'm going to try to be efficient in both the intro and outro of this episode. In the outro, I'm going to give you a bunch of really quick hitters in terms of the takeaways.

I'm going to try to do a bunch of takeaways. We'll see how that goes. But I hope you all had a lovely Thanksgiving and a bit of rest. Hopefully you were filled up with some delicious food and some delicious gratitude, and I hope you really enjoy this conversation with Emma Flynn.

[7:14] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by Emma Flynn Bespolka, formerly known as Emma Flynn when she was an MTCA student, and we are so excited to do another one of our MTCA alumni interviews. I'm excited to take you through the gauntlet. But first, I will just say Emma has a BFA from the Hart School, and most recently played Cher in Clueless on the West End. So we're going to talk all about... This is our first American guest who has worked internationally in the way that you're going to do it, so we're going to talk about some international stuff. But before we do all that, how are you doing, Emma? Welcome on the pod.

[7:43] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Gosh, I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk. I had a plan for what we're going to talk about, but then you came on this call and said that you just had a terrible audition, so we're definitely going to talk about that, too. I'm really going to make you relive it. I was like, I want the deep emotional breakdown on the pod. That will be our first of those, too, so it's exciting to be doing it first.

[8:02] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Oh, yeah. I'm down to emotionally break down. That's my forte.

[8:06] Charlie Murphy: A great skill as an actor to have. But before we do all that, take me through... I want to take our listeners especially through a little bit of your own audition gauntlet in terms of your college audition experiences. You're now joining the ranks of... it's so exciting how many MTCA alum we've had on the pod. We've had Helen Shen and Talia Saskauer and Ali-Louise Borgi and all these amazing... we just had Molly Griggs. We just played two weeks before you, I think, if this timing is right. But it's always fun for us to go through the process and hear about some of the different processes, especially I feel like some of our more veteran guests, our older guests, it was such a different process for them 30 years ago.

And for you, you're going to feel that way from 10 years ago time, but it's still not too long ago. But before I take you through the 10 years ago time, give me a little bit of a catch up on you in terms of where you've come from in the world. Catch me up to you at around 16, 17 years old as you started thinking about the college process. What do I need to know about you up till that point?

[8:55] Emma Flynn Bespolka: So I was... yeah, I was about... actually, I just turned 18 when I did my in-person audition. So I was 17 when I was doing my self-tapes and thinking about auditioning. And I lived in Bedford, New Hampshire with my family. And I was one of nine children.

[9:12] Charlie Murphy: Oh, my God. I didn't remember that. Nine children?

[9:15] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Yes. One of nine children. I was the third. So I was in the older side of the kids. And so I had still lots of children at home. There was still like, I think there was still seven of us at home at the time. And so lots going on. My parents were very busy, obviously, but they still made time for my auditions, which is crazy. And I think I was kind of at first thinking about doing nursing school as well. So I was applying to nursing schools at the same time. And spoiler alert, I got into all my nursing programs, and I only got into one musical theater program. So that puts it in perspective, too. And yeah, I was deeply insecure. I was like a 17-year-old. I wasn't actually... this is what's funny.

I think some people go into this fully confident that they are going to make it. I think I went into this loving the art, but had zero confidence that I was actually good at it. I was just kind of like, let me go to school and see. But that informed, I think, a lot of the outcome of my college audition program, because I think that deep insecurity is something that... because I didn't have that belief in myself yet as a human being. All of the different things that you have to do when you are auditioning, which is a lot of putting yourself out there, obviously. I think a lot of our listeners are going to relate to that. That's why I want you to tell this terrible audition story, which I'm sorry to make you relive.

But I do think a lot of our listeners are going to relate to that idea of going, it is a real battle with their insecurity. We've added much more, from MDCA's perspective, we've added more wellness coaching and more psychological prep, even independent of the wellness coaching. Just in the coaching itself, we realize it's a bigger and bigger part of what the battle that young people are going through is, like, is their self-belief and is the confidence to walk in the room and all those kind of things is a huge part of it. But wait, we're getting ahead. I want to do a little bit... I have to pause and talk a little bit about your parents. So how did your parents... I'm sure we have some parent listeners going, doing this process with seven other kids at home?

Oh my God, or seven kids at home total. How did they navigate this? Were you mostly doing it on your own and them giving you a little help? Were someone helping you navigate and be stage managing this process? I mean, how?

[11:26] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I mean, I don't think... My mother was really helpful. I don't think I had the same experience as other people. I think when I look back on it, that's why my parents put me in MTCA, because they didn't have the bandwidth to be at everything all the time, always... they're not showing up to every parent meeting and every... There's no way with seven kids. But they tried their best. My mom, especially, was really present with me through the whole process. Every time someone is going through the college process, she's very present because she knows that it's going to take up a lot of... My mom always says, teenagers need you more than younger children a lot of times because they're going through so many more things and they're just taking on so many responsibilities. I have a four-year-old. You can't tell me that she's going to need me more when she's 17. The amount that she needs us now is overwhelming. I can't believe it.

[12:16] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Yes, I know. But it'll be in a different way. It's like children need you in different ways at all points in their life. But I really appreciate it now looking back. My mom had so much going on and she still came with me to Chicago Unified. But that's why I think my mom has always been a really big... She's always been just a very intellectual person. She was a doctor before she stayed home. She cares a lot about education. She wanted to figure out for each child what the best educational route was. I think that's why she wanted MTCA or some sort of college prep program because she knew how difficult...

[12:56] Emma Flynn Bespolka: The audition process was just from hearing about it and she was also just very good at like witnessing the other moms and kind of figuring out how people are doing it because at the time my both my parents are in medicine and both my brothers went into like scientific and I didn't have any friends who had done it I didn't have any community members who had really done it so it was really like I was coming in with zero knowledge and my parents were coming in with zero knowledge so for us it that's kind of why they took advantage of a college prep program because even though you know it's kind of an investment it was like if you are a person who like doesn't have any experience or people around you like a village around you like that is the village you have to kind of invest in one totally.

[13:43] Charlie Murphy: How much do you remember the details of the process? Do you remember like which auditions you did on campus? Do you remember about how many schools you did? Talk to me about what do you remember? You did mention self-tapes, which I guess you would have been in the beginning of what we called pre-screens or we still call it first year.

[14:05] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Yeah, it was if the first year sounds right. Yeah, so what do you remember of that? Yeah, talk to me through like what do you remember going through that let's say the pre-screen process and through the audition process? What sticks out? What sticks in your mind? I remember like almost everything. I didn't do that many in-person auditions because I was so limited by my resources with my family and stuff, so I did mostly unified. I did audition for two programs on campus; it was Hart and it was Pace because I was going I was so close to Hart and then I was so like around the time my audition was for Pace I think I was going there anyways like I was going to unified's already or something else. So New York City Unified often people do.

[14:47] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, so it was and I think I was coming in and out of New York so much that it didn't feel like that much of a thing and I think I might have come by myself like I think my mom came to every single audition like I know she went to Hart but I think there were things that like I got on the train and I you know went by myself which is so crazy to think about now because I like I was so little like I you know I was like 17, 18 years old but I think yeah I was so green. I still feel green like I didn't when I was auditioning via self-tape I remember like I used a bed sheet and I taped it to the wall and my dad went and got lights from Lowe's and we put the camera up on like a stool with like a bunch of things piled on top of it so that the camera would be facing me and I recorded those self-tapes a million times like I and I still do this like these are all like I mean all that sounds the same as now except maybe the lights from Lowe's now people are gonna have a ring light or whatever but short of that that sounds pretty similar.

I haven't learned a thing, I'm just kidding. I honestly like the process is still grueling like it's I think what I learned now looking back is like that was a really good sort of window into like the professional world of acting which is like mostly unemployment and auditioning which is like you know that's the work of it.

[16:08] Charlie Murphy: But I digress. I remember so much about auditioning. Oh, I auditioned at Juilliard as well. I went in person on campus. Oh wait, no, not on campus that was at UChicago.

[16:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Do you remember the, I mean especially because people heard oh my gosh one school you got into it luckily it was a great school but I think that the fear what is oh god one school means you're only one away from zero you know do you remember how many you ended up actually applying to?

[16:35] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Yeah, so like over 20, over 20. Yeah, I think it was like 22 or 25 like I applied to like if it was an affordable program I was applying to it. The only programs I didn't apply to were like NYU and Boston Conservatory because of the prices but other than that I was applying to quite literally like everything that I could. Maybe not Elon because I remember we couldn't afford to fly there it was far away.

[17:02] Charlie Murphy: So if you believe it Emma as of this year Elon is coming to Chicago Unified.

[17:06] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I'm not surprised because like it really does a disservice to the school to not like me you're gonna miss out on talent just on people who can't afford it.

[17:15] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, it's like you know not only rich people are talented like you know people from all walks of life but also I oh I auditioned on campus at Carnegie Mellon of course. That was like my dream school.

[17:25] Emma Flynn Bespolka: No, of course necessary that's great they did but I mean I do think that's a generational thing two things you've said here so specific to your generation is like one taking the train into New York which used to happen all of our students from Jersey from two hours away people take the train and take the train back all by themselves to coach to do whatever to go see shows to go audition. I mean that was just and now I think that is so uncommon so rare that somebody is doing it all by themselves in that same way not that you would never go to an audition by yourself I guess if you lived close but I think more parents and students don't feel post-COVID I'm not feeling as much comfort in kids going on their own.

[18:02] Charlie Murphy: But then the other thing that feels so generational is the idea of you know you did 20 schools and got into one. I think you're the generation when it was it really got competitive the pre-schools were hitting the competitiveness was really upping but that has freaked all these people out it's why they're doing 40 schools and we go you don't need to do 40 schools you don't have to we have to find a little bit of balance to it or whatever but I think they get they're nervous hearing stories like that and especially knowing someone as talented as you could have been 20 in one. I mean that could and that would not be the only case where that happened so I do think it's you you've contributed to the inflation of people's school lists with this pod like I do think you don't have to apply to that many schools.

[18:38] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think I look back and there was a lot of schools that I applied to because I felt like I had to but the truth is the school that you're going to get into is the school that you well we can get into that but I think like where it ended up was the school that I felt the least amount of resistance at and I felt like really calm. I felt really calm in that audition and I think like I didn't feel calm in any of the other circumstances and I think like that is something that as an adult like I still work on and like I think if you put your so much pressure on like I have to apply to 40 different schools it's like it puts such a weight on you but then also if you only apply to two of course there's pros and cons but it's like so many things it's balance right we talk about the balance you know yes the number between 2 and 40 probably you're going to balance somewhere in between there but but also we always talk about the competitive balance too having enough schools that aren't the most competitive schools on your list that gives yourself a little bit of a breath and a little a little more security so that you know you'll have multiple options and that also are not like if they're all the most competitive schools then you can't guarantee that's going to happen and you know I do think more people would do 20 but 16 of them or 17 of them would be most competitive schools and you go that really makes the balance tougher.

[19:56] Emma Flynn Bespolka: That's where we often talk about six or seven in that competitive tier. I think also like I look back and I mean the Hart school is great and it gave me what I needed but I wish that I think I had prioritized different things than I did when I was like you look back and you're like oh you know I actually wish I had and I'm glad I went because I met my husband and lots of good things happened from it but I think like what you prioritize as a child versus like what you actually need in your adulthood is like so different.

[20:23] Charlie Murphy: Talking about that what would you prioritize? What did you prioritize then and what would you prioritize differently now if you looked at it?

[20:26] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Well I prioritized going to a school that was a conservatory program where I was going to get like really intense training and I think what I discovered was that the training that I got like it's good to go to a conservatory it really really is but I also think it's really good to have a real life and I think like when you're an adult and you are in this theater community and if you put yourself in the bubble and you only think about theater all day long and you only think about you know this one thing all day it puts again you put so much pressure on yourself you put so much pressure on this thing and like achieving this thing and you know striving for this success in this industry and it's all you're surrounded by and I think for me as a person I think everybody is different but I think I would have really benefited from actually like a little bit more life like a little bit more campus a little bit more school spirit a little bit more separation of career and like real life because I think that I did feel the heat like all four years that I was there and I felt like life or death like I have to be successful in this program or else like I'm gonna die like that's how it feels and I think like now and as an adult I have such different priorities for myself I'm like okay when when it starts to get hot like that like that's when I actually need to say okay I need a break from this environment and I need to like fill my life up with other things that make me feel like grounded again.

[22:10] Charlie Murphy: So well said and I think it's really hard to know at 16, 17 or just at 18 it's hard to know what you're gonna want. I mean there are people who the people who feel that way go oh gosh the conservatory was too intensive even if I knew from my summer program and I tried testing it out and I tried whatever that but they go was too or the opposite people go no I wish I was in a more I wish I felt more rigor it's it's hard to know what you're gonna want when you're 17 until you're in it you know and you can't like look back on and like truly no regrets like but I think it is like as a 17 year old it's like it's impossible to know exactly you know and and to me I look back and I'm like there's no there's no perfect choice there's no right decision it's just you make the decision right.

[23:04] Emma Flynn Bespolka: It's like wherever you go you just make it right and like make the decision right. I've never I love that I've never heard that that's like love the one you're with basically.

[23:10] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, it's like the same thing for marriage it's like you know it's like there's no perfect whatever it's like you make a decision and you know yeah you're part of making it right.

[23:15] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Perfect decision or right decision it's like you make that decision right and so putting that all that pressure like I have to find the perfect school or else like my life isn't going to go no it's fine wherever you go you're going to make it right and it doesn't have to be actually the perfect in every single way it just has to be you know it has to be you know as good of a choice as you can make in that moment at 17.

[23:35] Charlie Murphy: I love that answer Emma. Okay, well then that leads me right to tell me a little bit about Hart in terms of you know in general we're now over 200 episodes in so most of the schools from artist episodes we've heard a decent amount about so I've been skipping this for some schools but I think you are our first actual artist guest who went to Hart. We had Hart on to talk about the program itself we had you know represented from the faculty but I'd love to just hear like what was the experience how did you make it right for yourself what was right and wrong and what was what was the experience curricular for you?

[24:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Yeah, no I mean the curricular experience was like really intense it was a conservatory but then also my class was a bigger class than they were used to I think they had a high acceptance rate year like a higher yield than they expected yeah forgive me I think like a higher yes commitment rate or something and so we had like 50 kids in my class which was quite large for their program at the time and I would say now a lot of the faculty that was there since I was in school has retired actually so like it's a different I don't know what the environment is exactly like today but I can give you an idea of like you know if you were a beginner ballet you were starting your day at 8:30 you know you were going mostly to dance and acting and voice classes at the there was a separate campus for the dance and theater kind of world off campus called HPAC so we would go out there and then most students after their freshman year lived off campus so it was a very separated world like we weren't at the University of Hartford necessarily very much we were very much at HPAC which was kind of a singular building off campus and it sort of set it up so it felt like kind of that summer intensive program like you're going to this one building you're really staying there you don't I don't know how it is now but at the time you don't perform in any of the main stage productions until your junior year so your first two years are really like about the classwork and like the curriculum and so it was a lot of like you know 10 a.m. ballet and then 11:50 voice and then you know one o'clock jazz and then you know you're going through and then you have rehearsals that you're working on a show as you know a freshman intern so you're like doing or whatever they call it like crew your crew so I was like ASM for.

[25:52] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I was driving like it was my first time living in an apartment and you know, it was a lot of learning curve and I think I tried to balance things like I joined a sorority. There were some sororities on campus. I don't recommend trying to do that if you're in a conservatory program. It's like very, very intense on its own and it's also like me as an adult, I'm like that was silly, like just make your friends. Like no, like I did it and it was fun and I have some friends from it. But I think like curricularly, it was a very intense program with a lot of different training.

[26:43] Charlie Murphy: Did it feel like it sounds like maybe I'm getting a little bit of a hint that like maybe partially with a bigger class and the experience of what it was like jumping into conservatory from that more suburban environment? Did you feel like a little overwhelmed? Like did it feel almost competitive in terms of like your class of like, oh god, I'm a fish in this pond and I'm trying to swim and I'm like feeling overwhelmed by just the experience of your other classmates?

[27:29] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think so and I think there was this feeling for me at least that like, and I still feel this way all the time, but it's like, oh these people have so much more experience than I do or they have so much more knowledge of theater and like the industry than I do. And I really went in like not even knowing the difference between an agent and a casting director. Like I was very lost and I didn't have any parent who or like I didn't have any, you know, when I was a child, like I didn't have anybody who was really doing this. So it was something I was passionate about because of my high school program and things like that, but I didn't, I was in over my head at college. And I think now, you know, you look back and you're like compared to spare, like imagine how many of those other kids felt the exact same way.

But they're swimming along trying to look like they know what they're doing and you believe them at the time because you don't know what you're doing. And like you're all in the same spaces, yeah, like it doesn't matter. But I think at the time it felt like, oh gosh, like because the class was quite large and it was a very intimidating place. I was very intimidated and I really struggled. My confidence was really rocked by being in a very intense program and feeling a little bit like a fish out of water. Yeah, and like I was in this very, it wasn't a huge pond, it was quite like, you know, in the grand scheme of things, it was a small pond, but it felt, I was really new to the pond. I felt like not, I felt like a black sheep a little bit, a black sheep in a pond drowning. Dick wooly. Thank you for taking my metaphors. I appreciate that.

[29:14] Charlie Murphy: Okay, I want to take a break and I want to talk a little about your showcase and your professional experience. I'm gonna make you tell this terrible story about yourself, but just looking back at the college process, so we kind of wrap up this section. Is there something that you felt like you did particularly well? Like is there an area we say, hey, I really am proud of my 18-year-old self for this? And then is there something you go, if I could go back, I would try to change it?

[29:38] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I mean, I think I was really, I think if I look back, I had a lot of humility and I think like, you know, it is a good thing to have. I really didn't have this great desire to be chosen or liked more than anyone else. I was just kind of like, I just really genuinely was like trying to find the right school. But I think I think like that was a good thing because I never looked at the person next to me and I was like, oh, they're going down. Like I never had that personality. And I think like that ended up being really helpful to me as I got older because I never have been very competitive. And I think for some people they need that like competitive edge to survive the industry because that's the way that they cope.

And I think I've never been a competitive person, maybe with myself, but I've never been competitive like with other people necessarily. And I think that really saved me some. I would sometimes put other people like on a pedestal. But I think, and I also worked really, really hard. I think like I look back and I'm like, you know what? I didn't know what I was doing, but I really gave it my use driving person.

[30:44] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. Is there anything on the flip side of you were to say, man, I wish I could have done this a little bit. I wish I could go back and tell myself this, just a little more of this.

[30:55] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Oh gosh, just get over yourself, girl. Like just, you know what? Like screw it, just go in there and like don't be so insecure, like genuinely. And like, because it's not about you. And I think like that's what I, you know, I'm still working on now. It's like just, it's not about you. Just, it is about you, but in that, in the room, you're just sharing yourself. You're not like, you don't have anything to prove. You just have things to share. And I think I look back and I wish that I had just lent, I wish I had leaned into who I was more as a person with my material. I felt this need to be different. I was like, oh, I don't want to do, you know, anything like Glenda II or, you know, that's who I am.

So it's like, don't feel this great need to like push away from who you really are. Like you can just really lean in and be like, you know what? Like I am a blonde girl and I'm going to be in movie musicals and like that is like my type and you know, I love, but just like I love that you said that, Emma.

[32:05] Charlie Murphy: I do think that, you know, we talked so much and I think people correctly hear the reaction to 25, 30 years ago and misinformation about having to play into type and so they hear people going, you don't have to do that. You can be whatever you want to be. And I think sometimes people like, so should I do something that's not what I look like? Do I have to do that? It's like, no, of course not. Like if you happen to look like something that feels like it's who you are, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just about not putting yourself into a box because someone else told you to. But it's also like it's a weird different kind of box if you're like, I have to play against type and now I'm putting myself in opposite type mode or some weird other thing, all this type stuff.

I'm like, if you are, if you want to play Elle Woods and you look like Elle Woods, it's okay. You just go for it, girl. Sing so much better. I honestly wish I could tell myself that, you know, now ten years later.

[33:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: 'Cause now like my, I only sing one audition song pretty much for every single audition song. I mean for every audition ever and it's like from Rock of Ages and like that is completely within my type and like, yeah. And the thing is, is like you just, it helps you in the long run if you can be like, you know what? I'm really good at this thing and I completely match it and I'm a package then you're like, great. I know exactly what to bring in.

[34:02] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, that's true. It's so often like that's too easy or I think I'm gonna be boxing myself in. You go, but if it is who you are, it's just that you don't have to sing Elle Woods if that's not who you are. If you happen to look like that but you're like, but secretly on this do that other thing, but you are that totally.

[34:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Yeah.

[34:23] Charlie Murphy: All right. That's a great place to leave it. Let's do a little break and we'll come back. We'll talk about your professional life a little more.

[34:27] Emma Flynn Bespolka: All right. We are back with Emma Flynn Bespolka. Before we get into, I want to go deep into your professional career when I talk about showcase. I want to talk whatever, but I can't wait any longer to hear the audition story. So will you tell us the most modern thing that just happened to you? This is why Emma thought she might be late to this podcast. She ended up being 30 minutes early, which by the way is very good. Even late as early on time is fired, whatever those things are. But go ahead and tell me, will you tell me what happened in this audition? That was so awful?

[34:49] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Oh god. Well, I'll preface it with this. I haven't been to an audition in over a year and a half, so this was my very first in-person audition in over a year and a half.

[35:01] Charlie Murphy: Because you're only recently back to the States, right? So we're gonna talk about being overseas include, but give me can you give me a little your time trajectory back to the States?

[35:07] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Yeah, so I basically got back in September, but then I've been back and forth for the past couple of months actually. Like I've been back to London twice and now I'm going back again tomorrow and so I've just been doing a lot of traveling and then back and forth from my parents' house to New Hampshire to New York and I just moved into my apartment here. So like I got back like about, I want to say when did I get back? Monday?

[35:33] Charlie Murphy: Monday, two days ago.

[35:37] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Two days ago. Oh my gosh. Here we are. Okay, so now people hearing this is maybe a month later, but we're saying two days ago was with your first audition in New York. Okay. So now you can you tell us what the audition was? Can you tell us how it went? Give us whatever?

[35:45] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I'll say this. I don't know if I can say like what it is, but I'll say this, it's a big musical that everybody knows and it's the girl you think that I went in for and I like, that's gonna kill me. Okay. It's a big audition that everybody knows that and there's a girl you think you'd go in for.

[36:06] Charlie Murphy: Okay, I got it. I mean, it's exactly who you think it is, right?

[36:09] Emma Flynn Bespolka: So I taped for this and just to put it in perspective, like I taped for this while I was in London. I had to run to studio. I had a borrowing light, everything, the whole nine yards. And I was doing the self tape going, I know that I'm so right for this and that everybody, you know wants me to do this thing, but there was just this like something the universe, I don't know, just like pushing back. Like every time I would go to start the song, a truck would like go by and honk its horn. Like it was just like the like something spiritual was happening. Whatever. I was like these tapes are not good. Also, I pretty much immediately as soon as I got the tape came down with pneumonia. So I was like so sick. Anyways, sent in the tape, got the appointment. I go to the appointment today. I've been prepping for like a week, but I've been like traveling around and stuff.

[36:55] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I would say right now, and this is something that if you're listening kids, like note this. So when you're very stressed out in your life and you're not settled and you're not grounded and your two feet aren't on the ground, it's not a great time to go in for the biggest things that you like. I mean, it's just like what I know and like for you to be successful in a room. I really have to have like both feet on the ground in like, I mean that in my life. And right now, like I very much do not. Like I'm back and forth from London. I'm like all over the place. I know that like it's just not the time right now for things to be going well for me. But I also got this tape and have this audition and like I do have to continue forward.

So I considered, I was like, ah, should I cancel it? Should I not? I'm just gonna go. Well, I honestly wish I had just trusted my gut and been like, you know what? I don't need to go in for this this year. It's okay. It'll be around. It's a show that is gonna stay around for another 20 years and like it'll be here. But I was like also the dissonance of being like, oh, but it only auditions once a year. I have to go. You know, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go. I put so much pressure on myself. I, you know, wore a very costume-like outfit. I go in and I've never met this casting. Even before, I've never met these people before. And they're like, well, I don't, they're like, oh lovely dress and, and you know, I'm talking too much because I'm nervous.

I'm like, oh, thanks. It's not mine. It's my friend's. I borrowed it. And it's just like a zip your lips girl. Like it was just a classic tale of like being really nervous, saying too many things. They're giving me notes and I was just not able to take them. It was just a nervous Nellie audition.

[38:43] Charlie Murphy: And you tell me, give me a little more of a picture. But so what when you said, 'cause you said I bombed it,' what was an often? I mean, I'm not saying you didn't, maybe you really did bomb it, but often that experience may feel like it's more dramatic on our end. What were the things that happened? You know, you said you're not able to process because what you were in your head. Like what was the experience for you of going, this was a bomb? I did not.

[38:57] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think I was very nervous and for me, I already have a pretty hot engine naturally, and so when I'm nervous, it's like, like I'm and so they quite literally asked me to please calm down. Like no, they said please calm down. You're like just calm just because. And I was like, I was like, I'm totally calm. I'm like completely calm, you know, I'm like not calm at all. I was so nervous and I think I was really judging myself. Like after I finished a song, I would like put judgment on it like it, uh-huh, and they were like, don't, you know, when you finish just let it go. They're like coaching you in the audition. Yes, I was kind of, I felt like this anxiety I think from my real life.

[38:48] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. Today, we have a special guest, Emma Flynn Bespolka, who is an MTCA alum and currently playing Glinda in Broadway's Wicked. Emma, it’s great to have you here!

[39:18] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you so much for having me, Charlie! I'm excited to be here and share my journey.

[39:48] Charlie Murphy: Let's dive into your experience. You’ve had quite the journey, and I know you have some insights about being yourself and trusting your type. Can you elaborate on that?

[39:53] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Absolutely! I think one of the most important things I've learned is that being yourself is truly the key to success in this industry. When you walk into an audition room, you have to bring your whole person with you. It's not just about the talent; it's about who you are as an individual.

[40:23] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Trusting your type is also crucial. There are so many roles out there, and each person has a unique essence that can shine in different ways. Embracing that can really set you apart.

[40:53] Charlie Murphy: That’s such a valuable perspective. I know many students struggle with the pressure to fit a mold. How do you suggest they navigate that?

[41:23] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think it starts with self-acceptance. You have to grieve the setbacks and disappointments, but then release what you can’t control. Focus on what you can bring to the table, and remember that every audition is a chance to showcase your authentic self.

[41:53] Charlie Murphy: That’s a great mindset. Can you share a specific audition story that stands out to you, perhaps one that didn’t go as planned but ended up being significant?

[42:23] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Sure! I had an audition that I thought went terribly. I was so nervous, and I felt like I didn’t connect with the material at all. But that experience ended up being a turning point for me. I learned so much from it, and it ultimately led to my Broadway debut.

[42:53] Charlie Murphy: That’s incredible! It’s amazing how those “bad” auditions can sometimes lead to the best opportunities.

[43:23] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Exactly! No school is perfect, but the one you choose becomes yours through the work, the mindset, and the investment you bring. It’s all about making the most of your experience.

[43:28] Charlie Murphy: Well said! For students preparing for their college auditions, what advice would you give them to help them stand out?

[43:33] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I would say, don’t be afraid to showcase your individuality. Bring your unique perspective and experiences into your performances. The schools are looking for authenticity, so let that shine through.

[43:38] Charlie Murphy: That’s such an important reminder. Authenticity really resonates with audiences and panels alike.

[43:43] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Absolutely! And remember, it’s okay to be vulnerable. That vulnerability can create a powerful connection with the people in the room.

[43:48] Charlie Murphy: Thank you for sharing that, Emma. It’s been a pleasure having you on the podcast today.

[43:53] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you for having me, Charlie! I hope my experiences can help others on their journeys.

[43:58] Charlie Murphy: I’m sure they will! For our listeners, if you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out to us at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com.

[44:03] Emma Flynn Bespolka: And if you’re interested in working with MTCA for help with your individualized preparation, check us out at mtca.com or on social media.

[44:08] Charlie Murphy: Thanks again, Emma! We look forward to seeing you shine on stage in Wicked.

[44:13] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you! I can’t wait to continue this journey.

[51:44] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think one of the biggest things that I learned in college was to really embrace who I am and to be myself. I think that’s something that we hear a lot, but it’s so true. When I was in college, I was really trying to fit into a mold of what I thought a musical theater performer should be, and it wasn’t until I started to embrace my own uniqueness that I really started to shine.

[52:14] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Trusting your type is so important. I remember when I first started auditioning for roles, I would get really caught up in what I thought I should look like or sound like. But the moment I started to trust my own type and bring my whole self into the room, that’s when things started to change for me.

[52:44] Emma Flynn Bespolka: It’s also important to grieve the setbacks. There are going to be times when you don’t get the role you wanted or when things don’t go your way. It’s okay to feel sad about that, but then you have to release what you can’t control and move on.

[53:14] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I have a “bad” audition story that actually turned into my Broadway debut. I went in for a role, and I completely blanked on my lines. It was one of the most embarrassing moments of my life, but I learned so much from that experience. It taught me to be resilient and to keep pushing forward, no matter what happens.

[53:44] Emma Flynn Bespolka: No school is perfect, but the one you choose becomes yours through the work, the mindset, and the investment you bring. I think it’s really about finding a place that feels right for you and where you can grow as an artist.

[54:14] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I remember feeling so overwhelmed by the choices out there, but once I found the right fit for me, everything clicked. It’s about finding a community that supports you and encourages you to be your best self.

[54:44] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I also think it’s important to remember that everyone’s journey is different. Just because someone else is having success doesn’t mean you’re not on the right path. It’s all about trusting your own journey and knowing that you’re exactly where you’re supposed to be.

[55:14] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I’ve learned that being yourself is “popular.” When you bring your authentic self into the room, people are drawn to that. It’s what makes you unique and special, and it’s what will ultimately set you apart in this industry.

[55:44] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think the more we can celebrate our differences and embrace who we are, the better off we’ll be. It’s a tough industry, but if you can stay true to yourself, you’ll find your place in it.

[56:14] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I’ve had to remind myself that it’s okay to be vulnerable and to show my true self. It’s not always easy, but it’s so worth it in the end.

[56:39] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think that’s why I love being in shows like Wicked. It’s such a celebration of individuality and being true to yourself.

[57:09] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I’ve learned that the more I can bring my whole self into my work, the more fulfilling it becomes. It’s about connecting with the material and with the audience in a genuine way.

[57:22] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think that’s what makes theater so powerful. It’s a way to share our stories and connect with others on a deeper level.

[57:49] Emma Flynn Bespolka: So, to anyone going through the audition process, remember to be yourself, trust your type, and bring your whole person into the room. You’ve got this!

[58:19] Emma Flynn Bespolka: And don’t forget to grieve the setbacks. It’s all part of the journey, and it’s what makes us stronger as artists.

[58:49] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I’m so grateful for the experiences I’ve had and the lessons I’ve learned along the way. It’s all about growth and finding your voice.

[59:14] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I hope that by sharing my journey, I can inspire others to embrace their own uniqueness and find their place in this beautiful world of theater.

[59:44] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Remember, being yourself is the most powerful thing you can do. It’s what will ultimately lead you to success.

[1:00:14] Emma Flynn Bespolka: So, keep shining and stay true to who you are. The world needs your light!

[1:00:43] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you for having me on the podcast. It’s been such a pleasure to share my story and connect with all of you.

[1:01:10] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I can’t wait to see where your journeys take you. Just remember to trust yourself and enjoy the ride.

[1:01:39] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you again, and I hope to see you all on stage someday!

[1:02:09] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Keep being you, and never forget how special you are.

[1:02:38] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Until next time, take care and keep pursuing your dreams!

[1:03:08] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Bye for now!

[1:03:37] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you!

[1:03:54] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Bye!

[1:04:23] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Bye!

[1:04:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Being yourself is really the most important thing. I think when you walk into an audition room, you have to trust your type and bring your whole person into the room. It's so easy to get caught up in what you think they want or what you think you should be, but the truth is, they want you. They want your unique perspective, your unique voice, and your unique energy.

[1:05:10] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I remember when I was auditioning for schools, I had to learn to grieve the setbacks. There were times when I didn't get into the programs I wanted, and it was hard. But I learned to release what I couldn't control and focus on what I could. That mindset shift was crucial for me.

[1:05:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I have a "bad" audition story that actually turned into my Broadway debut. I went in for a role, and I felt like I completely bombed it. I left the room feeling defeated, but a few weeks later, I got a call saying they wanted me for a different role. Sometimes, those moments that feel like failures can lead to unexpected opportunities.

[1:06:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: No school is perfect, but the one you choose becomes yours through the work, the mindset, and the investment you bring. It's about finding a place where you feel supported and challenged, and where you can grow as an artist.

[1:06:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think it's important to remember that everyone’s journey is different. What works for one person might not work for another, and that's okay. Embrace your own path and trust that you're on the right track.

[1:06:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I also believe in the power of community. Surrounding yourself with like-minded individuals who support and uplift you can make a huge difference. It's not just about the training you receive, but also about the relationships you build along the way.

[1:07:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: As artists, we often face rejection, and it can be tough. But I’ve learned that each rejection is just a step towards the right opportunity. It's all part of the process, and it doesn't define your worth as an artist.

[1:07:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I encourage everyone to take risks and be bold in their choices. Whether it's in auditions or performances, being authentic and true to yourself will always resonate more than trying to fit into a mold.

[1:07:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Trust your instincts and don’t be afraid to show your personality. The audition room is a chance to share who you are, and that’s what makes you stand out.

[1:08:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I think the best advice I can give is to keep pushing forward, even when it feels tough. The journey is long, but every step you take is valuable and contributes to your growth as an artist.

[1:08:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Remember, it's not just about the destination; it's about the journey. Embrace every moment, learn from every experience, and keep striving to be the best version of yourself.

[1:08:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I’ve learned that vulnerability is a strength. Sharing your true self with others can create deeper connections and lead to more meaningful experiences in your career.

[1:09:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: So, as you navigate your own path, remember to be kind to yourself. Celebrate your successes, learn from your failures, and always stay true to who you are.

[1:09:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I’m excited to see where this journey takes me, and I hope to inspire others to embrace their own unique paths in the world of theater.

[1:09:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you for having me on the podcast. I hope my experiences can help others as they navigate their own college audition journeys.

[1:10:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: It's been a pleasure sharing my story, and I look forward to seeing how everyone grows and evolves in their artistic pursuits.

[1:10:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Remember, being yourself is the most popular thing you can be. Embrace it!

[1:10:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you again, and I wish everyone the best of luck in their auditions and beyond.

[1:11:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Keep shining, and don’t forget to have fun along the way!

[1:11:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I can't wait to see what the future holds for all of us in this incredible industry.

[1:11:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Let's keep supporting each other and lifting each other up as we pursue our dreams.

[1:12:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you!

[1:12:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I hope to connect with more artists and share our journeys together.

[1:12:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: It's all about community and collaboration in this field.

[1:13:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Let's continue to inspire one another and create beautiful art together.

[1:13:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: I'm looking forward to what lies ahead for all of us.

[1:13:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you for listening, and I hope you found some inspiration in our conversation today.

[1:14:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Remember, you are enough just as you are.

[1:14:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Keep pursuing your passions, and never lose sight of your unique voice.

[1:14:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Until next time, take care and keep shining!

[1:15:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you for having me, and I hope to see you all soon!

[1:15:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Let's keep the conversation going and support each other in our journeys.

[1:15:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Take care, everyone!

[1:16:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Bye!

[1:16:20] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you!

[1:16:40] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Bye!

[1:17:00] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Thank you!

[1:17:30] Emma Flynn Bespolka: Bye!