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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre, College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Ryan Kasparzcak from Montclair State University on the pod.

[0:19] Charlie Murphy: For our newer listeners, this is another one of our College Deep Dive episodes where we explore the landscape of the college theatre world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. And this is another one of our Act Two episodes. We had Mark Hardy on the pod a while back, and we've been planning to have Ryan on from the moment he took over this program as interim head last year. You'll hear, I think it's a really fun one because Ryan is a friend of mine and a colleague from the TPAP days. If you search deep into the bowels of the internet, you will find a video of the two of us playing a fierce ping pong match together, which I believe was in my first ever Instagram post. You can scroll all the way to the bottom of my Instagram posts and all the way to the right on those videos.

Ryan and I think have a very delightful banter, as always, I think we often do. Though I think you'll still get the tone of this in the interview. But unfortunately, for some reason, our audio lag. I think it was actually like something about the audio, maybe it was Ryan's headphones. I made a few of our like fun quick quips, or at least my little quick quips to try to get in there. I was like, I'm not sure Ryan can hear me perfectly. So we didn't get the perfect banter at the highest level that I think Ryan and I are capable of. It's where we just need like an audio tech on the podcast to solve these issues. We can only do so many things here. But I do think it really delightful interview and Ryan is able to go really deep into some specific topics that I really wanted to get into for a while, specifically, some of the higher level dance conversations, some conversation we've not had before in terms of, you know, like what dance expectations might be at a musical theatre college, you know, what you can do.

I did a little follow up even to some of what Michael Campano was talking about from Point Park. That was interesting. Some really beautiful transparency and vulnerability from Ryan in terms of the way he and Montclair operate when it comes to admissions and waitlists and how all that works. You know, I think you'll get a real sense of Ryan's personality, which, of course, is a huge part of what the goal of this podcast is. Can you get a sense of who this person is, what the school is going to be like, and then some great information. And the big reason I wanted to get this podcast out this week instead of what, you know, sometimes we've done like a Thanksgiving mailbag kind of episode is because Montclair is participating in our private audition weekend in two weeks.

And I wanted to make sure everyone had this episode as it's like the last of our updates that I wanted to do for all of those schools participating. So everyone now has hopefully all the updated information they need heading into those weekends with those schools and those program heads. You know, I know people use this podcast, of course, all kinds of different ways, and I encourage you to use it however is best to you. You know, some are really using it in that initial school list phase with younger students, sometimes parents of younger students doing that. But I know many have described the specific use of liking to like hear the episode right before you walk into the room so that you get a sense of the people behind the table that you're about to meet.

I think it's really a smart use of the podcast, and I'm trying to provide that to you as much as possible whenever possible to have those active episodes, especially, of course, for our MDCA auditions. And I know some people have mentioned they really use it at the very end of their process as well. Of course, you're welcome to do that, though I will say by the end of your process, you know, once you're already into these schools, you're going to have direct contacts with alumni specifically, with all the people at the actual program itself, and I'd almost rather you get that more personal deep dive specifically with you and your conversation with the schools, right, in terms of your actual relationship, rather than, you know, on a podcast, we can give you general answer, I think they're good answers that you can get, but it's more of an overview and more similar school to school where I'd rather you get even more specific.

You know, my intention with the college deep dive episodes, this podcast was always more of that overview of the landscape. And then, of course, that goal of demystifying the process a bit, you know, to meet some of the people behind the table, and then any general advice with takeaway stuff like that, but basically to be a utility up to your auditions themselves was always my goal. And then colleges beyond that will really provide direct information to you as needed. And certainly, I guess the reason I'm saying is certainly I would never want one of these podcasts to ever replace a visit, in my opinion, I'd rather that you do actually visit the schools that you're really interested in. Though again, if you have 15 options, could you use a quick episode to help you determine to get down to which schools you actually visit?

Sure, welcome to do that. And of course, use the podcast however you want, right? But hopefully, by the time you're actually into school, I've also got you hooked on those artist episodes. And you can switch over and listen to those artists episodes for the next six years of your life or whatever you're going to do with some general career advice, we hope. Also worth noting, as we mentioned in this episode, you know, concurrent with the private audition weekend, which of course is for our seniors, that Montclair is one of the six schools that are attending that weekend, and that there's also going to be an event for our juniors, which we call our junior college experience, which, you know, they get to kind of piggyback on the seniors who are auditioning.

And it's really a chance for our students to take classes from all six of those professors. I think, I believe Ryan mentioned he's teaching a Hamilton class, as well as a chance to get to engage in a Q&A with each of these schools for the students and parents themselves. So that is open to all without any minimums to participate. So even if you've not yet met MTCAs, you're listening to this podcast, you're welcome to participate in that event for sure. That's over the same private audition weekend on Saturday and Sunday, which is December 13th and 14th. And even before that, if you're looking for more MTCA content geared toward our younger listeners, we do have one of our free MTCA workshops, Meet MTCA Workshops, those are, which is next week, December 3rd at 8 p.m. Eastern, that is free to sign up for, free to attend.

You can find that information at mtca.com. Click on the banner at the top to sign up. It's a great chance to meet us, get a sense of what we do, get a sense of the process as a whole, if you're a newer listener and you haven't really gotten that sense of what the whole process is. And then in this workshop, you're also going to see some video examples of the kind of work that goes into this process, right? You'll hopefully leave that evening with a real sense of the expectations of the process, that's the goal, especially the artistic expectations, and the beginnings of a game plan for yourself and how you're going to specifically achieve it. So that's really appropriate for juniors, sophomores, and freshmen that's class of 2027, 28, 29, who are still early in this process.

If you are a senior, if you're class of 2026 and you haven't met us yet, I'd really recommend jumping right into initial consultation with time being so much of the essence for you, and really with your process looking a bit more different timeline-wise, it's going to be a bit more of an abridged process compared to the process that we'll talk about on that evening. Though for our seniors, for those class of 2026 students who are already MTCA students, please don't forget we only have a few more mock auditions available, you've heard me talk about them all fall if you've been a listener, so if you've been putting off signing up, please do check out. It's December 7th and then January 3rd are our last two in-person mocks in New York City, or January 6th through 8th, those are in the evenings, which are our online options spread out over those three days.

You know, whether you're considering a second mock or you haven't yet signed up for one, I really do think those days are a great bang for your buck and an essential part of MTCA students journeys. We really recommend them as the number one tool in your event bag. Tool in your event bag is a weird way of saying that, but we're gonna leave it in, Megan, we're leaving it all in. Okay, that is quite enough events talk. Were you just like writing all that down? You guys all got all those dates, I'm sure. But I did want to say, despite the lack of an official Thanksgiving mailbag episode, which, you know, maybe we'll do that over the next holiday break, we'll do some kind of fun special episode, I am wishing all of you a really wonderful Thanksgiving holiday.

I know this can be a tough one for our seniors with some big December 1st deadlines if you still haven't filled out all those applications. I know those are looming right around the corner, but hopefully you all, whatever state you are in your audition process, can find some moments of rest and relaxation and reset. I know we're all trying to do that here in the MTCA world as we kind of gear up for our busy audition season, what that means for us in the months ahead, so I hope all of you can do that. Hopefully you can find some moments to reflect on some of the things you're grateful for, you know, even if it is a bit hard to see that in some of the more stressful moments of this process of like, what a privilege this process is, I hope you can find a moment of gratitude for that.

You know, you are doing deep and challenging work and, you know, what it is to work on yourself as an artist, it's incredibly rewarding, incredibly tough, but incredibly rewarding, and I think a great privilege that we all should be thankful for, you know, whether that, if it's a student, maybe you're thankful to your support network that allows you to do this training, you know, for all of us to the world that we're living in that allows us to possibly pursue this as a career instead of like, I always say like, we could be like serfs working in the fields of medieval Europe or whatever, and that's what we're just stuck with because that's where we're born into, you know, it is such a blessing and it is a wonderful choice that we get to make to pursue our dreams, to get to go pursue our dreams and work on our human self as like a career is such a blessing and a privilege.

So I think if we can find the gratitude to that, that could be a nice thing, hopefully, to rest and reset a little bit. I'll say personally, I remain as ever grateful to all of you, our listeners, without whom this privilege of doing this very podcast would not be possible. To me, it also wouldn't be possible without the hard work of our producers, Megan Courtier and Kelly Prendergrass, who I often shout out the end of these podcast episodes, but here I'm going to shout you out at the beginning, as well as Jordan Rice, who's been doing social media work for us, as well as now Jordan is diving into the much anticipated five-minute highlight podcast episode project that many of you, I believe, are likely hungry for, even if it's really going to bear fruit a little bit more for next year's class, depending if you're a senior listening to this.

But many thanks to all of you, especially out there in the MTCA world, who try to make me look and sound good. I know, making me look and sound good is no small feat, so I thank you for all of it. And a special thanks, as always, to those brave listeners who throw us a rating and review, or even better, maybe directly share this podcast with your interested friends. That is the way our listenership grows. It wouldn't be possible without all of you, so I thank you for all of that, and I really appreciate all of those who share and who reach out to me and tell me they love the pod and tell me they've told all their friends and all those things. It really means a lot to me. All right, we all feel thanked.

We're all feeling grateful. We're all feeling rested, rejuvenated. We're feeling we're making plans to do that, maybe, if you're listening on the Wednesday tomorrow. I really hope that's the case. Let's get into this episode with Ryan Kasparzcak from Montclair State University.

[10:54] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited and titillated to have the wonderful Ryan Kasparzcak on the pod. Ryan has a BFA from Marymount, Manhattan, and an MFA from Wilson College. He's both a performer and a choreographer. As a choreographer, he's been the dance supervisor of Hamilton. He's choreographed for Billy Elliot, for Smash, the TV series, Grown Ups 2. My gosh. He's performed in things like Bandstand, The Honeymooners, Fosse, etc. Previously, he's taught at Marymount, Manhattan, and he's currently an assistant professor and head of Montclair State, which is still located in Montclair, New Jersey. Ryan is now standing while we read the bio. He's hiding off the camera.

[11:36] Ryan Kasparzcak: I was trying to do an entrance. I was like, I know it's a podcast, so that was going to be less effective on audio.

[11:43] Charlie Murphy: Most people are just listening, but they'll get that. But I have to tell them that there's still classes of 17 to 22. That's what they're shooting for in terms of an incoming cohort. They offer BFAs in MT, BFA in acting, BFA in theater, BFA in dance, etc. Okay, Ryan, now is your time for your big entrance. Welcome to the show. How do you feel?

[11:59] Ryan Kasparzcak: Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for hosting me.

[12:02] Charlie Murphy: For those not watching, he was off camera, sliding on camera, giving a goofy face the entire time.

[12:08] Ryan Kasparzcak: I did a bit. You're going to have to check the YouTube edition.

[12:11] Charlie Murphy: It's a good chance for you to sell our YouTube. So thank you, Ryan. Yes, we are on YouTube with these podcasts. Okay. I read that bio, which you mentioned in the pre-show was 15 years old. Anything you'd want to add in terms of bio, but really also in terms of personal details of your journey, certainly in terms of this kind of permanent position? This is a newer thing for you. So just talk to me about your journey to Montclair and to where you are now.

[12:33] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, sure. So I spent four years as the dance supervisor of Hamilton. That part was in the bio. And then I have two young kids, as you know, as a parent of a young child. And so the show schedule was not really for me anymore. So I was looking, you know, for forever at home, I guess, in academia and Montclair State. I had taught here as an adjunct. And so an opportunity arose. And this is only my second year as the head of program. So I still definitely feel like a rookie in the process. And as I like to say to the students, I'm definitely still in a space of discovery more than dictatorship. I am doing a lot of listening and learning along the way. But I do think that's important because, you know, as your students are looking at different schools, I think we are definitely improving.

[14:39] Ryan Kasparzcak: I would say about 90% of the faculty lives and works in New York and commutes out to the university to teach or direct or choreograph. And I think we also are supported by one of the best dance programs in the country. And so sort of the OG Montclair students, if you will, from when the musical theater program was founded 15 years ago, were typically incredible dancers. And I think a lot of our most successful alumni also have carried that reputation. And so I do think we are a dance forward program, but we definitely support movers of all stripes and skill levels. And I think what we're trying to build is a community of open-hearted artists and I think like the Red Hawk culture is really growing.

And I think it is becoming increasingly important, yes, in our recruitment practices, but mostly amongst the students. And this freshman class, especially, I think have invested in that and they have done their own kind of like team building and they built out their own social media presence. And a lot of this is MTCA alumni. And I think one of the things that I really like about the MTCA family is these, I have found that the alumni that we have in our program, these are yes and people. They're here, yes, they're here to be in class and to be in production. And they're here to create their own culture and their own environment and to build out the social aspects of being a Montclair State Red Hawk. And that to me is awesome.

[17:36] Charlie Murphy: You're amazing. You're already doing advertisements for us. That's what's supposed to come on the break. We run ad through VPN and then we'll run our own ads later. Thank you for that. That's very nice. But just tell me a little bit about, so you started saying, hey, this is something that I care about that I'm growing in sort of that broader sense of who they are. Is there anything from a curriculum perspective or from a large program perspective that you would go, either stuff that you've already started to put in the last two years, or is there stuff that you're thinking, hey, this might be five years before I really pull this off, but here's where I see Montclair going.

[18:05] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah. So one of the things that, going back to the intro and saying that the students have a lot of autonomy of how we're shaping the program, we do these musical theater town halls like twice a semester, right? So it's all the students, it's myself and some of the other faculty, and it's essentially an open forum. And what it's become is a brainstorming session where the students offer ideas about, you know what would be cool is if we had X, Y, and Z. And so a lot of my work in my first year was trying to implement some of those ideas that they were really jazzed about. And some of it was already in the works from when I was an adjunct. So like as an adjunct, I taught a partnering for musical theater dance class.

And that was something the students wanted. And so we put it in. And last year I taught understanding swings and understudies, which is my favorite course. And having spent most of my career as a dance captain and a swing, I think that is a wildly important class for students. And again, building on this sort of like, we have a lot of dance feature ensemble, smart, bright actors graduating from the program. And so this has become a little bit of a filler for that. We added a casting course that's an online synchronous course featuring Lindsay Levine from the TLC office, who is also my wife and actually has been an adjunct here at Montclair State since 2018. So she was here long before I was ever on campus.

We have added, I teach a Hamilton history course that's currently elective, but in the fall will be a history credit. And then we also just submitted a personal finance for creatives. So we are building out the curriculum in a lot of ways based on the feedback we're getting from the students. We added contemporary dance for musical theater. We added an ensemble singing course that the students were asking for that counts for what they used to have to take chorale, which was something all the music majors took. And we made it specifically ensemble singing for musical theater. So, I think the heart and soul of the program remains the same from the time that Mark Hardy was the head who's now retired or Clay James, who was the founding head.

But what's really great about the support that we have of the administration is they really allow us to tinker. And they're really allowing me to tinker around the edges, I think, in a way that we support the elective credits and adding in all of these sort of extra things that the students are interested in.

[20:50] Charlie Murphy: You mentioned autonomy. Certainly, it makes sense in terms of the town halls of them asking for things that then can change the whole program. How much election, you mentioned, how much electives, how many electives, do they have in terms of the things you're talking about? How much is like, this is part of the MTU curriculum and how much is like, well, if I'm more of a dancer, I take this. If I'm more of a singer, I take this. How much choice do they have within the program?

[21:11] Ryan Kasparzcak: Great question. So we really try and get the students to sort of bang out their required courses, both within the major and within the university and the gen eds in the first two years. So what that means for musical theater majors is a lot of music classes in the first few years. You get your theory and your oral skills and your keyboard and all those sort of required music courses. And then you have a lot of freedom. And what I really like about our program, one thing that I think is unique about our program is we can tailor it to the specialization of the actors in our program. So for example, if you come in and you are an expert musician, you play a bunch of instruments, you can pass out of two levels of music theory, you can pass out of oral skills, keyboard, all of those sort of required music courses, you might not have to take.

Or if you aren't, you start at the beginner level of that, but maybe you're a more advanced dancer. You can pass out of some of the levels of musical theater dance that we have. Within the program, we have four levels of tap and jazz, three levels of ballet within the musical theater program, but we have this incredible dance program that has another six levels of ballet and modern and creative movement and choreography and all these other electives. So if you, let's say you have passed out of all of your music courses, but you would like to take a jazz theory class. Cool, we can set that up for you. You wanna take a music composition class. Great, we'll fill that in and we'll count that for what would be a required theory credit.

And same thing in the dance program. If you wanna take four years of ballet, yeah, we can set that up for you. You can have point, you can have all those advanced ballet classes that a dance major would have. Or if you're like, you know what? I've never tapped dance a day in my life. I would like to do two semesters and be done. Great, excellent. For you, I would suggest stage combat. We'll count that for a dance credit. I would suggest clowning. We'll count that for a dance credit. You know, we can kind of, we can tailor the experience in a way that I think is really unique. And that's because we have small cohorts of 18 to 20 students, you know, in a larger university setting with a great theater and dance program that extends beyond the bounds of musical theater.

[23:40] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I wanna stay on this idea of dance because, you know, what will now be probably the episode releasing before yours, I recorded it maybe two weeks ago, with Point Park, you know, Michael Campagne, who's just taken over that program. He sort of mentioned, hey, we're shifting away from dance. And part of his reasoning, which is his quote, not to make you respond to another faculty member's quote, but was sort of like, hey, a lot of the people who are working at the high level that he sees on Broadway are like dance dancers, meaning they've come in as amazing dancers. Maybe they went to a dance program, maybe they're modern, maybe they didn't go to school at all, who knows? We know the competition dance level, whatever, people.

And he was like, I don't know that realistically I can take an 18-year-old and turn them into a dancer if they weren't there. I'm putting a little bit words in his mouth, but that's part of why he's shifting the program. I guess I'd love to kind of hear from your perspective as someone, because I know you got a BFA that wasn't in musical theater and have spent most of your life dancing. I guess we didn't really hear about your dance background up until 18, but what do you think in terms of what is possible in those four years? We'll sometimes say with MTCA, if we have six months with you, we're not gonna turn you into a ballerina necessarily. We're gonna try to take you from here to here and improve you in the ways that we can.

But what does that look like realistically in four years in terms of the kind of careers people can have if you come in as a mover or if you come in as an advanced dancer, but who's not the most high level competition dancer? What does that look like at your program?

[25:01] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, I think, you know, dance is the hardest thing to make up. You just, you can't, you can't get 10,000 hours starting at 19, you know? And so I think the dancers who are working on Broadway in the industry, they have a long history and the body adapts slower than the mind and the voice. And I just think, I don't disagree with my colleague in assessing that, you know, if you've never put on a pair of tap shoes and you show up at Montclair State your freshman year, it's unlikely that you're gonna have a storied history as a tap dancer on Broadway. There's just, there just isn't time. Now, I think part of what we need to focus dance curriculum on is the things that we can adjust, right? Style is something that can come at a later time when you can really understand it intellectually, when you can understand your body in a way that the isolations fit in for you.

And so I think it's important that we teach musical theater dance as its own established style. It has its own history. It has its own legacy of incredible choreographers and that informs your dancing in a way that I think is important. I think we have moved beyond the philosophy that tap plus jazz plus ballet equals musical theater dance. I think that is a thinking from two decades ago. And I think now musical theater dance is stylized movement driven by the story. And so that is what we want in all of our classes. And like, what is the style of the piece? What is the style of the show? That's dictated by the score and the creative team and things like that. But I think it's naive to say that ballet is important in musical theater dance.

Well, actually that's not naive, that's true. But ballet isn't musical theater dance on its own, right? And even when we look at what we think of as like the great ballet choreographers of the musical theater era.

[27:50] Ryan Kasparzcak: The evolution of man painting where it's like man starts as an ape, this is the evolution of the redhawk, which is the Montclair State mascot, starting as a tiny redhawk version of Annie, and then developing into this is our mascot, Rockette, the redhawk. Anyway, that idea is like, we can always be improving, there is always an extra 1%. And what's what I love about that idea is it a little better every day forces you to only focus on the work directly in front of you. You can't make yourself better in a show that you're not in, that is six months from now, right? And so this idea is really important in dance, but also in all of the things that we do.

[28:41] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, it's so well said. And I do think, yes, it's worth noting that there's a difference between, I can turn you into a dancer, meaning somebody who's going to work your whole life dancing. And also that the improvement is not worth it. I'd say that weirdly, but think that there isn't worth, I mean, Elizabeth is never going to audition for a show as a dancer. But Pal Joey, choreographed by Savion Glover, who's like, it's like, that's not like she's not the most amazing tapper. But she didn't look out of place in that show to me. I mean, she wasn't doing tap solos, the way that some other people were, but like, she could dance enough to fit in the show. Like there is still some in the same way that maybe you talk about with a swing class, like for amazing dancers, you don't have to be the greatest singer, the greatest actor, but you have to be good enough that you can cover because that's gonna likely in your career, you're gonna have to do some covering.

It's like how those incremental improvements make a difference, even if you never get to a place where you're going, well, I'm auditioning only as a dancer, I'm actually only as a singer. There's value in all that.

[29:35] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, I mean, one of my mentors was Anne Rankin. And she used to have the saying she used to say, protect your downside, right? Which is like, yes, you should focus on the things that you are an expert at, and you should keep improving on those. But like, don't be don't have a blind spot. As an actor, as a musical theater performer, where you're just like, I don't ever need to learn tap dance. Or like, for me, it's like, I don't need to know music theory. No, Ryan, you do. No, it's like invest, invest in that as well. Because like, what does it mean to be well-rounded? It doesn't necessarily mean that you're equal parts, right? It means that like, that you don't have huge gaps in your skills and in your abilities. You know, yes, you should specialize.

[30:23] Charlie Murphy: Would you give me a little bit of your personal history in terms because also, I think of you as someone who, you know, also in a very actory way, you know, I've seen you teach a clowning class, I've seen like, like, you've sort of also seem to have used musical theater and shifted and blended it into what we might think of more traditional acting. Like, I don't think of clowning as musical theater dance in the same way. Think of that as like, MFA acting more.

[30:45] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, my background, you know, I grew up as a competitive dancer, you know, in the big national championship competition kind of circuit, you know, 60 hours a week, all day on Saturday, that kind of thing. And, and, and I got kind of burnt out on dance is the truth. You know, my junior year of high school, I was like, I'm done with this. I don't really want to do this anymore. And that happened to be the first summer I spent studying with Anne Rankin. And so that was my entrance into musical theater dance. And I think part of the reason I'm so passionate about it is what I realized looking back at my history was, for me, until like the age of 16, I thought dance was jumps and turns and leaps and tumbling.

Like, I don't know that I'd ever done a step until I was 16 years old. And Anne was like, Oh, you isolate your hip and your shoulder and your finger. And I was like, Oh my God, what's this? And so I started to discover that's what dance was. I also was always a really strong tap dancer. And so I'd spend the summers going to these tap festivals, Chicago Human Rhythm Project and the Motor City Tap Fest and, you know, St. Louis Tap Festival. And so I got to study with not only like Anne Rankin and I studied with Gregory Hines at that summer program, but also like legendary tap dancers like the Nicholas Brothers and Peg Leg Bates and, you know, Fred Kelly and all this. So I had an interesting dance background.

[32:15] Ryan Kasparzcak: And then because I was so burnt out on dance, I didn't want to go into a musical theater program. So I was a BFA acting major at Marymount Manhattan College. And even that experience, you know, I always wanted to be a creator. Like I started choreographing when I was a teenager. And I always knew that that was going to be that was really what I loved. I liked being a maker. And so I got really lucky in the sense that in the summers, Anne would give me the opportunity to choreograph and work on pieces with some of my now best friends like Neil Stewart at Texas State and a bunch of other people. And then at Marymount Manhattan College, I spent two years working with Elizabeth Suedos at La Mama.

And it just was a lucky thing. She came in and was doing a new musical. And so that team, it was it was Elizabeth Suedos. Michael Friedman was the music director who, you know, wrote Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson and some other incredible pieces. And, you know, and I learned how to make a show, how to put a show together. And my freshman year, the founding head of Marymount Manhattan Theater, Bill Bordeaux was his name, was retiring. And so he had zero Fs to give. And so they had a teacher come in who was teaching the special topics, 400 level clowning class. And Bill knew I was a dancer. And he was like, hey, if you take this clowning class, I'll pass you out of your basic movement. And I was like, yeah, sure.

Changed my life. That class absolutely changed my life because, again, I thought I thought dance was jumps and turns and kicks and leaps and rolling on the floor. So to understand that movement could be storytelling and that comedy could be movement, like blew my mind. And it just like turned the whole world on its head.

[34:07] Ryan Kasparzcak: And so I studied with her. I studied in London for a semester and did a lot of clowning there. You know, and then after college, I did the musical theater thing. I was in the national tour of Fosse and that's my first dance captain gig. And I don't know, I have like a mixed relationship with the idea of like classic musical theater, you know? And so I was like, I don't know if I just want to be a chorus boy. And so I got into this company called Parallel Exit Physical Comedy Theater. And we started making our own clown shows, basically. And we toured Europe and did a show at the New Victory Theater. And it is such a huge part of who I am as a maker and who I am as an artist. And it drives so perpendicular to like my classic musical theater background. And I think, you know, I'm going to get ahead of myself, but you're going to ask me what I look for in a student. You're getting into the next section already.

[35:16] Charlie Murphy: Well, but for me, like I want both, right? And I think that's because I think that's who I am. Like I can function. I can do 42nd Street. I can do Fosse. I could do Hamilton, right? I can do things that exist in the normal range of musical theater. And I can do this like wacky, avant-garde, downtown, gritty, build-your-own shoebox theater. And I think, you know, I'm drawn to both of those. And so some people, some unicorns maybe are both, but at the very least, I'm interested in both things, right? I'm interested, like if you come in for me and you crush someone to watch over me, I'm into that. If you come in and you play the bongos and the harmonica with a ukulele attached to your feet, I'm also interested in that.

[36:09] Ryan Kasparzcak: How many people come in and play bongos for you, to be honest?

[36:12] Charlie Murphy: You know, I've yet to see one of those.

[36:13] Ryan Kasparzcak: Maybe in the wild. I love where we're going because then we'll go farther in there after the break. But part of the reason I asked that question was exactly what you just said, which is we do have a lot of people who come in sometimes as really high-level dancers to the point where I am really strong, stronger than a lot of my freshman level classes are going to be, certainly, even if I were to level up into a musical theater class. I've been dancing since I was three and I'm really at that level. And many of them make the choice you made. Many of them say, hey, I'm either going to go to an acting-based musical theater program because I already know how strong my dance is, or they go just to acting programs.

Versus some think, well, do I want to try to stay in a program where I'm going to keep up that level of dance? I guess I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And then also for Montclair specifically, if I were an actor at Montclair, who was that high-level dancer, how would I be able to find that permeable membrane to get to musical theater classes? Could I be in the musicals? What would it be like as an acting major if I was a really strong dancer, but I wanted to focus more on acting?

[37:10] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah. I think I'm really proud of the way we support top-level dancers at Montclair State. And obviously, I think I'm one of the few program heads who has a dance background. Of 200-some episodes, it's a handful where you would say their strongest thing is dance. Not the only one, but it's rare. It's more rare than not.

[37:31] Charlie Murphy: Yes. And so obviously, that is something I am really focused on and really sensitive to. As far as technique goes, like I said, we are able to rely on our dance program. And our high-end dancers, they're really in the mix with some of the best dance majors in the country as far as their technique goes.

[37:52] Ryan Kasparzcak: What I am focused on is the things that, as a young dancer, I didn't get and that unlocked things for me. And what I mean is if your technique is easy and you can do four pirouettes and you can hit every fancy tap trick, then what? Now the real work begins because you have so much facility. And so for me, that is finding space for them to join our creative teams as assistant choreographers or as dance captains, finding opportunities for them to choreograph. We work that into – I teach a new works class in the spring where we're developing new work. And whenever I have a student who's interested in choreographing or directing, I'm like, hey, come with me. Let me give you a number. Let me give you a piece.

Let me give you something to work on. And then this idea of the swings and understudies is huge in our program. And this is because my career really took off when I started to understand exactly who my type was. And my type wasn't what I expected. My type was smart. And I mean this because there are so many skilled, gifted dancers. And then there are some who I think understand things in a three-dimensional way that is really hard to explain to other people. And so the swings and understudies class is an opportunity to train that muscle and to understand not just what it means to be a great dancer, but what it means to pick up quickly, to be able to rotate the camera 360 degrees and put yourself into any position on stage.

And once I realized like that is my superpower, boom, like everything took off. And so I'm interested in investing in that. And the swings and understudies class, as I say in the first class, I want you to discover if this is for you or if this absolutely is not for you. Because that also is an important thing. And even great dancers sometimes find like, oh, you know what? Like, you know what's going to be best for me? One on stage track over and over for 1,200 performances. And that is its own skill. And then there are some like me who are like, I want to look at the whole thing. I want to close my eyes and see the archival video on the inside of my eyelids because I have studied so closely.

Also make sure you're a good choreographer and all those things. Like all that stuff makes sense. I think what we do really well is we allow space for people who come in with tremendous technique to continue to grow that. And we are providing opportunities for dancers to discover how else to use their skills.

[40:31] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I love it. And a little bit of having an acting comfort and a singing comfort also is helpful. I mean, I noticed that was like, I was starting this podcast as Elizabeth was in Jagged Little Pill. And I would look at that sometimes of like, you can tell the difference between the two amazing competition dancers who when they had like two lines were pretty incredible. I'm like, actually, and there's other parts they could have fit more into that they ended up giving to other people because they just didn't have like the comedic chops.

[41:30] Ryan Kasparzcak: Students, but also with the BFA musical theater students. And so that's a two-week intensive. The juniors put on a full script in hand performance of a Shakespeare play. Our sophomores and our seniors are in master classes with them. The BFA musical theater students, in addition to four years of really curated acting training, you know, they also have acting for the camera electives. And there's lots of film and television opportunities and acting for the singer and musical theater styles. And all of those courses are really the bloodline of the program. And so I think I sometimes get distracted talking about the dance because that is my expertise. And what about the flip side of that? That was one of the branches.

I gave you a three-branched question earlier, but for the people who are BFA acting majors, if they're MTCurious, what can they take? What can they do? What access do they have or not have in terms of the program? Yeah. Great question. So the BFA acting majors can opt for a musical theater minor. And so that structures their curriculum a little differently. They can get private voice. They can take the dance classes, things like that. But one of the things that's great about Montclair State is all students in the university are eligible to audition for any of the productions. And so we have a ton of crossover in the sense that we have BFA acting students who get cast in the musicals. We have musical theater students who get cast in the plays.

We have musical theater students who get cast in the operas at the music school. We have vocal music students who get cast in the musicals. And we have musical theater students who get cast in the spring dance concert. And so there is a lot of crossover within the various programs. And so as far as performance opportunities go, it's kind of up to you.

[43:21] Ryan Kasparzcak: Like the real world?

[43:24] Charlie Murphy: Exactly. It's the real world. It's like, you want to do an opera? Go for it.

[43:27] Ryan Kasparzcak: Empty only or whatever. You're like, well, can you do it? If you can do it, you can do it.

[43:30] Charlie Murphy: Exactly. If you can do it, you can do it.

[43:32] Ryan Kasparzcak: Let's do a little lightning round on some of this stuff that I asked you.

[43:34] Charlie Murphy: I love a lightning round.

[43:36] Ryan Kasparzcak: You had to do a five-minute version of it. Talk to me a little bit about that percentage. I said, hey, about what percentage of academics versus what percentage of musical theater classes? We'll count Hamilton as a musical theater class, even though it's an academic credit. How much time am I spending doing acting, singing, dancing, theater classes? How much time am I spending doing academic classes otherwise?

[43:55] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah. So you need 120 credits to graduate. 93 of them will be in your major. And to be honest, that's actually a low estimate because classes, we double dip a lot for what counts as a gen ed. Like your acting one class counts for a speech and communication credit and history of Broadway as a literary analysis credit. And so that is the detailed official listing. But to be honest, I would say you would have less than a quarter of your credits that aren't in the major.

[44:27] Charlie Murphy: It's funny. I often say that. I'll say some schools are more like 80, 20, even 90, 10. And you look at curriculum, the curriculum will never say 90, 10. The curriculum will always say 75, 25 at the most, like what you mentioned. But because of the double dipping, I'm counting that. My theater history class.

[44:41] Ryan Kasparzcak: So don't tell anyone, but it depends on who's asking.

[44:45] Charlie Murphy: Like if the provost is asking, then yes, at least a quarter of the credits are gen ed.

[44:51] Ryan Kasparzcak: Right. That's right.

[44:52] Charlie Murphy: If a theater student is asking, it's like maybe 15%.

[44:57] Ryan Kasparzcak: That's right. People would sort of describe Carnegie Mellon from an academic perspective, but that's not what it was. I know the percentage of time that it was a lot more than 90. Part of the reason we try and double dip so much is not that we're trying to, you know, scam our way out of universal education. It's a time constraint situation. The musical theater majors, they spend, you know, yes, they spend time in their classes from nine to five, and then they're in rehearsals from six to 10. And so how do we try and not totally burn them out? It's that we count as many classes as we can within the major for a gen ed.

[45:33] Charlie Murphy: And then how many people get an outside minor? So you mentioned like acting majors get an MT minor, but how many people get a psych minor or a different academic minor?

[45:40] Ryan Kasparzcak: I would say probably maybe 10% of our musical theater majors are taking on a different minor. And usually it's something completely outside of the scope of theater or dance. For example, we have a criminal justice minor right now who's a freshman. We have a computer science minor who's a senior. We have a lot of education minors. So that, yeah, it happens. And mostly it's their other interests. What's more common is our students will gravitate towards some of their interests for their electives and not necessarily officially complete the minor. It'd be like I did a lot of Shakespeare. We had a student who was essentially a double major in costume design, but we couldn't figure out how to coordinate the credits so that she officially got the major.

But she spent a lot of her time in the shop and she designed a show and that kind of thing. I will say it is exceptionally rare to have a double major in BFA musical theater and anything else. To my knowledge, we have one who has done it. She did it in a five-year plan. She was a double major BFA dance and BFA musical theater. That is it. And again, it's just because of the time commitment.

[47:02] Charlie Murphy: I love it. And then let's do a quick cost one. So our crack research team has come up with the numbers I'm looking at was about 16,000. All right. Yeah, 15.6. So 15.5 in state and then out of state is 26,000. Talk to me about how do you, if I were to bring those numbers down, but let's talk both in state and out of state, how do I pay less than that? Is it more going to be about academics? Is it more audition based, talent based, need based? How do I bring those numbers down for you?

[47:30] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, we definitely, you know, the pool for academic scholarships is just a little bit bigger because we're drawing from the university as a whole. So what's really nice is we are able to stack all of the scholarships. So, you know, let's say you're a great student. The top presidential academic scholarship is going to be about nine thousand dollars. Right. And we could stack that with the talent scholarship, usually anywhere between a thousand and five thousand as far as talent goes. And then on top of that, again, if you're a great student, I always recommend the honors edge program. We just received a five million dollar grant for the honors program here at Montclair State, which means that that opens up another pool of scholarships, sometimes as much as like three thousand scholarship, three thousand dollars a year.

So already we're looking at like bringing that number down by at least 15, 18 thousand dollars. And in addition to that, we do have some specific grants earmarked for musical theater students from a few different patrons. Wendy Gillespie, who's now a Broadway producer, is a Montclair State alumni, and she is a big donor. And every year we have about two scholarships specifically for students of need that we can add on into those other sort of traditional avenues.

[48:49] Charlie Murphy: And do you feel like are you trying to focus more of the scholarship money on the out of state? The out of state is not that much higher compared to some schools. It's like a huge difference. There's only ten thousand more. But are I getting more artistic money if I'm an out of state student to try to bring that number down? Is it equal across the board? Is there any difference in state for you?

[49:05] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, I would say it is definitely a little more weighted to out of state, you know, because of the quality of our program. We've been able to recruit nationally for at least the last five or ten years. And so we're trying to get the total number kind of in the same ballpark as much as we can. So it's very affordable, obviously, that number 15. Yeah, especially listen, if you live in Jersey and you're not applying to Montclair State and you're interested in musical theater, come on, give me a chance.

[49:32] Charlie Murphy: Well, if you live in Jersey and you're not applying to Montclair, you're not an MTCS student. I'll tell you.

[49:36] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, exactly. You better do those in state schools. You better if it's local and you can make it happen, even if you don't think you want to stay in state. Why would you not? And we really we really have committed ourselves to trying to get the best of New Jersey talent. I spent last summer teaching at the Paper Mill Playhouse, Summer Conservatory. I'll be back there again this summer. So we are really trying to recruit the best of New Jersey. You'll see me in New Jersey. Thespians, come take my class. And, you know, and so we have done better, increasing our percentage of in-state students in the last year. But yes, I would say we do try to skew a little more of the scholarship money towards out of state, just so just so the total number ends up around the same ballpark for in and out of state.

[50:24] Charlie Murphy: Last of this has only been semi lightning round. This has been a faster, but not fully lightning round. But let's talk about a showcase. So how do you prepare your students for their entry into the business? And then what does that showcase look like?

[50:37] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, well, in addition to this showcase, I really think we are one of the best programs in the country at embedding professional development over the course of four years, partially because of our geography, right? We're bringing in creative teams that are working on Broadway right now. Ryan Dobrin is directing Natasha Pierre in The Great Common of 1812. He's Whitney White's associate. So he was the associate director for the last five years and Merrily We Roll Along on Broadway. And Mandy Raposa, who is also the associate choreographer for Merrily We Roll Along, is choreographing the show. And so that's very common in almost all of our both studio and main stage productions. Last year, Ahmaud Simmons came and directed and choreographed.

He played Ben Vereen in Fosse-Verdon and original company Hadestown and Hamilton and a million other things. So that really is baked in. And also a lot of our I mean, all of our dance faculty teach at Steps and Broadway Dance Center and are choreographing in the city. All of our acting faculty, to be honest, every single one live and work in New York. And so these are Broadway actors. These are Broadway directors that we have on campus. Now, in addition to that, we do do the whole showcase rigmarole. The whole senior year is really geared to your professional launch. So in the fall, it's audition technique, which is building your book beyond sort of the traditional uptempo ballad golden age.

You know, do you have a country song? Do you have a 1950s pop song? We really try and get into the nitty gritty of like what's in the book so that you're ready to go. And then also, that's a chance for students to test out what they think might be their showcase material. So and part of that pairs with a class in the spring, business and musical theater, which is, you know, it covers all of the questions you might have about agents and managers and unions and equity signups and stuff like that. Students develop their own website. So that's ready to go when we get to the showcase time.

[52:47] Ryan Kasparzcak: And then your showcase itself this year for the first time, our industry sponsor is going to be Lindsay Levine from the Telsey office. How do you get that one? Yeah, I know. I know somebody. Anyway, so we do we do kind of a hybrid model of the showcase. We do a closed industry showcase, meaning Lindsay curates a small group of casting directors, agents, managers who come and see the students material. I think that's important. Well, philosophically, we won't go into like the idea of like, do you need an agent when you graduate? The short answer from me is absolutely not. But our students think it's really important. And if they think it's important, then we want to honor that. And so by the same token, we want to make sure that these are quality agents who are not just trying to sign any young whippersnapper they can.

So in addition to that, we build our showcase in partnership with the school communications. So the school communications films really professional packages for our seniors. They also edit them. They like them. They look great. And so we have these really great professional packages. And so what we've done in the past, the package, what does that look like? Usually it's usually it's two songs for the BFA musical theater students, for the BFA actors. It's a song and a scene. And sometimes people will do a mix depending on what their skill, you know, they'll do a song and a monologue or a song and dance number and a song. So we can again, we can really curate it to the skills of the actor. And so coming out of the COVID.

[54:40] Ryan Kasparzcak: We had done a Zoom version and this year we're doing sort of a hybrid. So it's going to run like almost like a TV show where we have this curated panel of professionals and we'll run the students' package. We'll run the professional package, you know, two and a half, three minutes, and then we'll crossfade and that student will be in the studio getting to dialogue with the agents and the casting and all of that. And in addition to that, we also do coaching with the casting director and our full-time faculty and all of that. So we've had really good luck. I would say, you know, probably 90 percent of our musical theater students end up signing with an agent coming out of the showcase. What about for your more advanced dancers?

What do they have in terms of dance footage leaving the school? I feel like that is now, you know, more of an expectation than it was certainly when I graduated from school. It's like, oh yeah, there's video of you dancing that looks really good that, you know, how do they get that? Is that in class? Are they doing that professionally? How does that work for them?

[55:50] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, it's a mix. You know, all of our sort of top-end dancers will cut a dance reel as part of their business of musical theater course. And so where do they cut that from? We have, again, the school communications professionally films all of our main stage productions and all of our studio productions. So the students sometimes will cut that. We also just in general, students can sign up for studio space. It's just a QR code and it's a Google thing. So like you want to get in the studio at 8 a.m. if it's available, you've signed up for it. You can film whatever it is that you want. You know, we're kind of in a wild time now, too, because like a lot of people's dance reels are TikTok videos or whatever.

[56:29] Charlie Murphy: But look good.

[56:30] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah. Yeah. And it's true. Professionals want to see that stuff. So go to someone's Instagram and see what. Yeah. And we also we also do try and tie it into the showcase package. If you're if you're a top-tier dancer, we're going to encourage you to do a song and dance number as part of your showcase package.

[56:46] Charlie Murphy: OK, let's take a quick break. We're running way over time. What a surprise. You and me. I'm sure this will be a three-hour podcast. A quick break and then we'll talk a little bit more about audition admission, which you've already given a preview into. So back in a flash.

[57:08] Charlie Murphy: All right, we are back with Ryan Kasparzcak, and we're talk a little bit how to get into it. Now you're so excited about this program. Now, how do I get in? Let's talk about first just a little overview of all the wonderful places you're going. You mentioned New Jersey Thespians, which I didn't have on the list, but all the places you're going this year. You know, I just saw you at PUA, which the people who watch that two-hour video would have seen five minutes of you standing on a chair talking about where the auditions work and then also just kind of the general process. So how does that work with like prescreens and what is the process of applying to and then eventually getting into Montclair State?

[57:42] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah. So because it is only my second year as head of program, I am trying to teach anywhere and everywhere I can. So I have been participating in sort of any of the events where I have the opportunity to teach or run a dance call or something like that because, you know, I'm a new guy. And so I want students and parents to get to audition me and decide if I'm right for you or if Montclair State is right for you. So what that means, we are at Pittsburgh. I taught three master classes at the live audition. We also did the virtual auditions. We will be at the Dallas Munifieds this past weekend. We were at the Druinifieds virtual event. We will also be at the CAP virtual event in St. Louis. You can find us at the New York, Chicago, LA Unifieds. And then we do a series of on-campus auditions, mostly live, but we do do two virtual on-campus auditions. So if you can't make it, there's always that opportunity.

[58:39] Charlie Murphy: You mean just virtual live auditions?

[58:44] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, the virtual live auditions that we host.

[58:48] Charlie Murphy: So, yeah, and we do one of those.

[58:51] Ryan Kasparzcak: I like that. You're saying it's not someone else's virtual audition. It's a virtual.

[58:53] Ryan Kasparzcak: Exactly. Exactly. It's Montclair State hosted.

[59:00] Charlie Murphy: Ryan, I feel like you forgot the most important. You did every, you named every.

[59:03] Ryan Kasparzcak: And we will be at the MTCA exclusive college auditions.

[59:10] Charlie Murphy: Exclusive, of course.

[59:11] Ryan Kasparzcak: Coming in December.

[59:12] Charlie Murphy: In December, you'll be at our audition weekend with six schools.

[59:15] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yes. And I'll be teaching there as well, I think, for the juniors. Is that correct?

[59:20] Charlie Murphy: For the junior listeners, junior or younger, though mostly will be junior. Could be sophomores and freshmen. You'll be teaching a class as well. He is learning about his auditions as we speak.

[59:30] Ryan Kasparzcak: So many ways to see you. I mean, truly, it's amazing all the places you're going to be at. How does that work in terms of like, especially when you look at when you did a PUA or Druinifieds or Immunifieds, you know, and with MTCA too, also, they're not turning in a prescreen. How does it work in terms of the difference of those auditions for you?

[59:47] Ryan Kasparzcak: Hopefully, the audition itself is the same, but in terms of the experience of like, if you met a kid at Pittsburgh, it's what the burning question so many of our students are asking of like, OK, so what does that mean in terms of my communication with all these different schools? How does it work when I met you at Pittsburgh versus if I meet, if I did a prescreen and meet you live on campus later?

[1:00:03] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yes. Let me talk you through because it is a little bit different for each event. OK, so MTCA listeners, if I saw you in Pittsburgh, either at the live or the virtual, we're accepting those as a final audition. Right. So hopefully a lot of your students already received an email from me where I say, congratulations, we're thrilled you got a call back. So what does that mean? If you got a call back, what's most important is that you apply for the university. Any final decisions come through the admissions office. They don't let me tell everyone what I want to tell them. And so you have to apply to get your audition decision. And if you anyone who who gets an acceptance or a wait list for Montclair State, I really encourage you to come see us if you're going to be at one of the other events.

So like if you're going to be at New York, Chicago or L.A., come to one of our dance calls. Just stop by the table and say, hey, I'm available at this time. We'll slot you in. And we use that as a masterclass opportunity. If you haven't already gotten a masterclass for me or you want to get another one, that's the way to do it. I teach all the dance calls myself again so people can get an idea of how we work and what the philosophy of the program is.

[1:01:15] Charlie Murphy: So I encourage them to do that. I just want to pin in that because, Ryan, I think that is so helpful. And I think some students get freaked out hearing that. So like, what does it mean? They think it's like audition and then in or out are the options. And so then when they get that happens a lot where schools would say, like, hey, come see me. You're in, but come see me anyway. In the audition, we could talk for 10 minutes, we could whatever. But just having that experience of going on that second or third date, which eventually will be really helpful information for you come March and April when you're doing those visits. All that time spent is a good investment of time. So just to say, even if you go, like, I think I'm in. Would this make me out if I do badly in the dance? I was like, no, of course not. That's not what the experience.

[1:01:51] Ryan Kasparzcak: No, absolutely not.

[1:01:53] Charlie Murphy: In a place that you can't see and spend 10 more minutes with a person, it's going to ruin it. You want to be building a relationship with all these people. So I'll say that's only a good thing if you met them at Pittsburgh. Let's say they already say we want you to then continue that relationship. I would also keep investing in those relationships, even if you already haven't.

[1:02:08] Ryan Kasparzcak: OK, keep going.

[1:02:09] Ryan Kasparzcak: And I would go even further. I would say, you know, the reason we do it is not because I need more information on you. It's because you need more information on me. You are now narrowing from 40 schools to like maybe five, right? Like I already know you. I like you. I'm impressed. So it's really the other way around. I will say this too, just as far as the numbers go, and then I'll get into the other events and how those are working. So we have already seen like about 430 auditions. It is October 28th, right? Our program, we're only going to end up with about 20 students. So just thinking about those numbers, they're a little bit bananas. And so we have been using this 6% number as 6% acceptance to kind of keep myself reeled in because I want to accept. I came away from Pittsburgh. The live audition, I think I called back like 65 students.

[1:03:09] Ryan Kasparzcak: You're like, they're all good enough. I want to accept them all. They're amazing. I want them all. So hear me, hear me, MTCA community. If you end up on the wait list, please do not panic. I would say about half of our currently enrolled students started on the wait list at some point. And the reason is just about the numbers, right? So as I'm looking at, we have seen about 430 students so far. We have like less than 30 accepts out of that because we have to hold to this 6% number, which means that a lot of my favorites will end up on the wait list. And I say this often, and some of your MTCA students who are current freshmen can attest to this. Our wait list is my wish list. And that is the truth, right?

These are the students that I love, that I'm interested in, that I feel have a spark, that I feel would be great here at Montclair State. And admissions will not allow me to take them at this point. But when we get to March and we get to April, those are the ones I'm coming for, right? Those are the ones that I'm going to be reaching out to and saying, listen, I loved you from Pittsburgh in October. And if you haven't committed, give us a chance. And that's the truth.

[1:04:32] Charlie Murphy: I love that. Talk to me a little bit about, you mentioned some of sort of the kind of students you're looking for in terms of the multiple skill sets earlier, you know, in the audition. So when you're watching the PUA auditions, which of course, those are a little less personal in the experience because you're not alone in the room with them. But I'd love to hear from both, maybe that's more of the pre-screen perspective of like, just when you see the material, what are you seeing that makes you go, I like that person? And then in the live audition, when you get to interact a little bit more, what are you seeing that makes you go, oh, that's definitely, this person is one of the 30, this person makes.

[1:05:04] Ryan Kasparzcak: Before we do that, and I'll feed this into my pre-screen, which is some of the other events, some of the other events we're handling differently. So this year at New York, Chicago, LA, and the Montclair on-campus auditions, we are requiring a pre-screen. And that mostly, I'm thrilled that Montclair State has become so popular, but the truth is we haven't been able to see everyone or allow access to the program at the Unified auditions. So we're adding that element just so, again, just so everyone has a chance. We will be taking walk-ins at the New York, Chicago, and LA Unifieds. So if for some reason you haven't, what we're going to do is we'll give students the opportunity to either sing or dance first if you're doing a walk-in.

So if you come and you haven't signed up, but you're like, oh, I really am interested in Montclair State, you can come. And if you want to sing first, you'll sing. And then hopefully, if we like you, we'll call you back to one of the dance calls. But if you're like, I'm a dancer first, I'd really like to be seen dance first. Look, no one is going to stand for the dancers out there like I am. So we'll give you that chance.

[1:06:06] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, exactly. So along those lines, what do we look for in the pre-screen? In the pre-screen, I'm looking for an element of expertise. And so that could come from any area. And so if you have a gorgeous 32 bars, that's going to be enough for me. I'm looking for a little bit of a spark and a little something in the voice maybe that makes me say, oh, I would like to hear this in person. I will see you at the Chicago auditions or something like that. Or vice versa. If I see someone who is a dancer first and their dance submission is excellent and the voice feels like it has potential, I want to see that in the room too. Because I do think we really are looking for a certain level of expertise, right? I want you to score an eight or a nine in at least one area. I would prefer that than someone who is a seven all around.

[1:07:05] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. And for musical theater students, should that one of those areas be singing or dance as opposed to an amazing actor but not a singer or a dancer?

[1:07:08] Ryan Kasparzcak: Ideally. But every once in a while, you know, there's somebody who sparks like my favorite monologue from last year. I could tell you who that student was because they're a freshman here at Montclair State. Right. And so I was like, man, she's just such a great actor. Like I believe in this person and there's room to grow in the other areas. You know, again, if you were an expert in one area, you do have to clear a minimum bar in the other areas.

[1:07:37] Charlie Murphy: We talked about the ways that different things in musical theater is there plenty of musical theater, non-dancers, non-singers who are musical theater performers, you know, not not quote unquote singers that wouldn't be there for you, but you go, but they sing one up, but they're funny enough or they're they bring some skill set that you go you have a career even if you're not known as a belter or whatever.

[1:07:45] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah, totally. Totally.

[1:07:56] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yeah. And I would take I would take that spark in one area over the generalists any day. I love it. Now, what about you mentioned the academic side of things in that you can't give an admission until they've applied? What does that look like in terms of the bar that they have to clear and just how it works? Is it mostly you have control over the yes, but academics just has to say good. Are they weighing in strongly? How does it work from the you know, with the university itself?

[1:08:19] Ryan Kasparzcak: Welcome back to the show. Today, we're diving deep into Montclair State University's Theatre and Dance program.

[1:08:49] Charlie Murphy: I'm excited to have you here, Ryan. Can you give us an overview of what makes Montclair's MT program unique?

[1:09:17] Ryan Kasparzcak: Absolutely! Our program is designed to be flexible while maintaining a conservatory-style education. We focus on developing the whole artist, which includes acting, singing, and dancing.

[1:09:37] Charlie Murphy: That sounds fantastic. What are the dance expectations for students entering the program?

[1:10:05] Ryan Kasparzcak: We expect students to have a solid foundation in dance, but we also understand that not everyone comes in with the same level of experience. We provide training to help students grow in their dance skills throughout their time here.

[1:10:29] Charlie Murphy: That's great to hear. How does Montclair evaluate auditions?

[1:10:49] Ryan Kasparzcak: During auditions, we look for a spark in the students. We're interested in their potential and how they can grow within our program. It's not just about being perfect; it's about showing us who you are as an artist.

[1:11:17] Charlie Murphy: I love that approach. Can you talk about the admissions process and any tips for students?

[1:11:27] Ryan Kasparzcak: Sure! It's important for students to build relationships with faculty and to be authentic in their auditions. We want to see the real you, not just a performance.

[1:11:37] Charlie Murphy: That makes a lot of sense. What about waitlists? How should students navigate that?

[1:11:57] Ryan Kasparzcak: Waitlists can be tough, but we encourage students to stay positive and keep in touch with us. Building a relationship can make a difference.

[1:12:07] Charlie Murphy: Absolutely. What advice do you have for students to navigate this process with clarity and confidence?

[1:12:27] Ryan Kasparzcak: Focus on your growth and aim for a little better every day. It's a journey, and each step is important.

[1:12:37] Charlie Murphy: That's a great mindset. How does Montclair support students once they're in the program?

[1:12:47] Ryan Kasparzcak: We provide a supportive environment where students can explore their artistry. Our faculty is dedicated to mentoring students and helping them find their unique voices.

[1:12:57] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a nurturing space. What are some common misconceptions about the program?

[1:13:07] Ryan Kasparzcak: One misconception is that it's only for students who are already highly skilled. We welcome students at all levels and focus on their development.

[1:13:17] Charlie Murphy: That's reassuring for many prospective students. Can you share a success story from a recent graduate?

[1:13:27] Ryan Kasparzcak: Certainly! One of our recent graduates landed a role in a national tour shortly after graduation. It’s a testament to the training and support they received here.

[1:13:37] Charlie Murphy: That's inspiring! What do you think sets Montclair apart from other programs?

[1:13:47] Ryan Kasparzcak: Our commitment to the individual student is key. We tailor our approach to meet each student's needs and aspirations.

[1:13:57] Charlie Murphy: I love that personalized approach. What should students keep in mind as they prepare for their auditions?

[1:14:07] Ryan Kasparzcak: Be yourself and trust your instincts. The audition is an opportunity to showcase your unique talents.

[1:14:17] Charlie Murphy: Great advice! Lastly, how can students learn more about Montclair's program?

[1:14:27] Ryan Kasparzcak: They can visit our website or reach out to us directly. We're always happy to answer questions and provide more information.

[1:14:37] Charlie Murphy: Thank you so much for joining us today, Ryan. This has been incredibly informative.

[1:14:47] Ryan Kasparzcak: Thank you for having me, Charlie! I'm excited to see the next generation of artists come through our program.

[1:14:57] Charlie Murphy: And to our listeners, if you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com.

[1:15:07] Ryan Kasparzcak: Good luck to everyone out there!

[1:15:17] Charlie Murphy: Until next time, keep striving for your best!

[1:22:00] Ryan Kasparzcak: Oh, that's a great question. Yes, and yes, you should go. I think our social media is the best way. It's not really worth following me, tapdancekaz, at Instagram because I don't really post anything. You should look at, hold on, Montclair New Year's score, musical theater, that's going to be the best spot. Also, our social media team is awesome. It's run by our students. DM them, ask them questions, get connected with them. They will answer you and they will answer all those questions that you want a student's answer and not my answer.

[1:22:42] Charlie Murphy: I love it. Ryan, thanks for the time today. I really, really appreciate it.

[1:22:47] Ryan Kasparzcak: Yes, yes, yes. What a delight Ryan is. You know, our studious listeners who listened closely to that Pittsburgh Unifieds episode, notice you will have heard Ryan for a very entertaining few minutes on that panel. And you may have also noticed if you watched that video, he was like jumping on his chair at the time. And he brought the physical comedy in this episode too, you know, ever the clown, ever an argument here for us, the one to be checking out our YouTube, to watch these episodes on YouTube. If you want to stare at my face, not moving and watch Ryan do some bits, you know, you're always welcome to watch these podcasts on YouTube as well.

[1:23:15] Charlie Murphy: I have like 50 takeaways I could do from this episode. I jotted down a bunch. You know, you're going to get in, I guess, an extra heaping of takeaways in honor of Thanksgiving this week, I guess, in what is already a pretty long episode. What are we going to do? For those who don't like these super long episodes, you know, stop listening, I guess, whatever you want to do. Here we go. Some takeaways. Just a quick underline to the idea that Ryan talked about and we've talked about it before on the podcast about this idea of like you auditioning them as much as they are auditioning you and how that can hopefully give you confidence in this process. You know, I always talk about however you can find that spine, however you can find that like self-assuredness as like a place to share your joy from, it's a win, right?

And I do think that idea is like a great way in from an artistic perspective, just being open and curious about the people behind the table instead of so focused on what you're doing that can really free people up to like share their actual self. So that idea of you're auditioning them as much as they are auditioning you is a win, right?

[1:24:07] Charlie Murphy: You know, I always talk about however you can find that spine, however you can find that like self-assuredness as like a place to share your joy from, it's a win, right? It's about can you feel like you're really listening to them and taking them in so that you're not so hyper-focused on yourself and you can do a little bit more of that authentic sharing that we're going to talk about. Also, a quick thumbs up to that motto. I really liked it. A little better every day. Simple, but it's just what a great motto, right? That could be an MTCA motto as well. I mean, it really just feels like when Ryan's talking that you're ready for the guest blog, for Ryan Kasparzcak to write a great MTCA guest blog, maybe.

But yes, I mean, you've heard me talk about this before. A little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing. We talked about trusting the process. We talked about that idea of like keeping your eyes on your own paper, not looking left or right, but really looking at your own work and just moving forward every day. These are all just like different ways of saying the same thing, which is like both generally good life advice to like being the kind of artist who is continually learning and growing. That's a great thing to be. But it's also in this process, I keep wanting to highlight the things that sound woo-woo, but that are actually like it's not just about that. It's also a form of being competitive, of actually getting in an audition process, which is auditioning you as a student. It's not auditioning you as a final product. It's auditioning you as somebody who's in process, right?

[1:25:30] Charlie Murphy: So rather than just like this process being like taking a sample of where you are, taking a snapshot and like how far along are you and that's a static thing, it's not that, right? They want to see you in process to see you getting a little bit better every day and to see you see a human being who's in process and is doing that since that's the kind of learner that they're going to work with for four years, right? I'll just say that is just so much more important than seeing a finished product and how far along that finished product is or even exactly where your skill level is, right? And we'll talk about skill level. Skill level is important. It's not that it's not important. Of course, the work that you do to actually progress your skill level matters.

It's just that it's even more important that we're seeing the human being working and striving to get better, right? A little bit better every day in this case, right? I think that idea of like are we seeing you in that process and can I imagine you in that process at my school is like a form of being competitive in this process.

[1:26:23] Charlie Murphy: Then I really loved Ryan talking in detail about the structure of Montclair's program. There are so many different ways and you've heard me do that if you've been listening to a bunch of this podcast. There's so many different ways to break down these programs and what their differences are, many of which from a baseline credit perspective are relatively similar. Many of these schools are really not that different if you're just reading the curriculum, right? But it's fun hearing about like the level of flexibility that exists within even the artistic world of their program, what a dance requirement might be, what a song requirement might be, right? So even in a very conservatory-like environment, which we would call this a very conservatory-like program, Ryan whispered there may be close to an 85-15 school in terms of how much time is spent in the artistic discipline versus in sort of academics, right?

But even within that conservatory-like program, there's a lot of flexibility. I think sometimes people think of flexibility as more existing in the more liberal art style programs where you can take more kinds of different academic classes or even in the BAs. And to some extent, that is true, that a BA is going to offer maximum flexibility in all the different kinds of paths you can take in dabbling in so many different things, right? But there also can be flexibility within the structure of a BFA, whereas some schools may really pride themselves on like, this is our curriculum, this is our structure. All of our students take exactly the students or exactly the sequence, I mean, or nearly exactly the sequence.

And we feel it's well-researched and we really want them not to skip out on any of these experiences. So, acting 1, 2, 3, 4 is going to go exactly like this. Voice 1, 2, 3, 4 is going to go exactly like this, right? It's a real way that different programs can feel really different and that students who might be craving the kind of flexible, you know, artistic flexibility and that idea of like user choice and choose your own adventure. That doesn't always mean you have to lean away from a conservatory-style artistic program. You just have to find the program that is that right fit for you.

[1:28:12] Charlie Murphy: And then I thought, really interesting and pretty unique what Ryan talked about in their audition structure at Unified. You know, how they have it like an equity chorus call versus an equity dance call and the choice that students would make. You know, really interesting and shows their perspective as what Ryan mentioned. He said, I'm looking for an element of expertise. And, you know, how he would at least prefer an 8 or a 9 and at least something rather than 6s or 7s across the board, right? Interesting to hear that in the same interview with the Gail Rankin quote about protecting your downside. Obviously, to some extent, it's a bit of each and different schools will really talk about that differently.

You know, some have said, we really want 2 out of the 3 to be very strong. And some have said, and it's nice if 1 of the 2 of those 3 is singing. So 1 of the 2 is singing and 2 of the 3 have to be strong. I've heard that a couple of different schools have mentioned that kind of thing, right? But I think that idea of what Ryan is talking about of like, I'm looking for a spark. You know, I'm looking for a way in, right? And the idea he's actively looking for a reason to say yes, whatever that might be. And it might be surprising. It might be just about the dance. It might just be about the acting, just about the singing. Just about an element of 1 of those things, potentially, and what that spark is. I think that's a really helpful way to think about it as a student and a performer.

[1:29:23] Charlie Murphy: You know, I talk about this a bit in the blog of like, I do a post about sharing versus hiding, right? And that idea that you want to walk in and actively be showing that spark, right? To show that joy, to show that area where you go, you know, I am great at this. This is something that I have to share. And this is something I'm really excited to share about myself. I think that's just a much more productive way to go about the audition process rather than leading with the idea of like, I don't want you to see any of my weaknesses. You know, I'm playing prevent defenses. Don't look over there, right? I'm trying to cover something up. You know, of course, it is great to be strong across the board.

Nothing wrong if you have nines across the board, even better, right? But the idea of like playing offense in your audition and showing actively sharing as opposed to like covering up weaknesses. That's how I think of it, at least from a performer perspective. You know, of course, there's always that flip side too. You know, when we talk about material selection, you do want to think about, hey, I'm not going to actively lead with something that is a weakness in terms of the kind of material that I pick, of course, right? So it's an element of both of those things, of course. But that's like a whole other blog post. If you want a whole other blog post, I do like that in a, there's a baseball analogy.

I talk about like pitch selection in one of our blogs about, you know, how you do which material you should select and how you show off as many contrasting strengths as possible. I'm really shilling for the blog today. You're getting a lot of blog podcast content. Why not? Here we are. It's Thanksgiving.

[1:30:43] Charlie Murphy: Okay. And then let's talk about the funny way that the office of admissions and these artistic departments interact. I just love the way Ryan described it of like students are going to get an email after some of these events that say you received a callback as if you've like passed the pre-screen, even when it was a final audition, which he's saying really means, hey, you're in, but you have to apply to the university. But of course you can't be officially in at that point because you haven't applied to the university. So you don't have an official in. And I would also say, I wouldn't necessarily assume that even just because you've heard that on this podcast, that it's a guarantee that you might not end up waitlisted.

It means Ryan liked you artistically, but we don't know for sure, depending on when you fill out that application of what happens, are you going to be artistically in or artistically waitlisted, etc. You know, given, especially also Ryan talked about being in year two and talked about the difficulty of these numbers. But all of this is just to say, when you look at this process and you're doing 25 schools that might have nearly 25 different ways of doing things, you really do feel like you're going crazy as a parent sometimes in this process. And as a student going through this process, right, you go like, how could this be the way the world works? And my takeaway is just to say, you're not crazy.

Yes, this is how it works, right? And it's not literally different for every single school. There are some similarities, certainly. But, you know, just to say in terms of what's useful to you, the point is to like keep following up, keep following through and play the process out with each school without hopefully getting too bogged down in like what the specific email says in terms of communication. Like don't get trapped with the like, hey, why didn't it say you're in? Does that mean he's actually not that interested in me? Or what does it mean? Because it's just going to mean different schools, different things for different schools. And it's like not helpful to you to get bogged down in information or to get bogged down in this shouldn't be the way the process works. To some extent, I go, I agree with you, but it is the way the process works and it is how it is, right? And you got to live in the world that we're in, right?

[1:32:30] Charlie Murphy: To that end, I think a really great rule of thumb he gave us in terms of like, if I begin that relationship with you and I say like, come see us, even though you're in already, I'm telling you you're in, come see us at Unifieds, right? Whether you've been offered that admissions or certainly for any school where you're on a waitlist or you're in that pool of interest that you'll be in in these next couple months sometimes or it's not even as specific as a waitlist or an in yet. We just know they're telling you, I'm interested in you, right? Go take that dance call at Unifieds, right? Go stop by for a 10-minute audition slot if they have them available and they say, come sit down and chat with us.

We'll work on one of your pieces or whatever they do, right? Even if it is just saying hi, keep building that relationship. It's just like a good way of thinking about the rest of your career. Not that you'll necessarily be getting a tit for tat for each one of those investments that you make. Some schools you may go and I'm actually ends up, I wasn't super interested in them, okay. But that idea of like investing in relationship building, it's really good training and it will make the audition experience better for you as a whole if you're able to see it, like we talked about, you're auditioning them. Can you see it as like, I'm engaging and building relationships rather than the flip side of that is like, I'm trying to show off and rack up as many acceptances as I can, right?

That's one way of looking at it. But if you can think about, I'm just planting seeds, I'm investing in these relationships and we'll see what grows and I don't necessarily need to be concerned with that right now in January. In March, I'll worry a little bit more about which school I'm actually going to end up attending.

[1:34:01] Charlie Murphy: I also really love that Ryan shared that specific of half of our current enrolled students came from the waitlist. I'll say it's really interesting and cool, but that is not unique to Montclair. I mean, specifically the half, some is more than half, some is certainly less, but that a lot of schools, a significant percentage of students will have started off on a waitlist. You know, I think it is a really accurate description of how schools that are in that, especially that similar competitive category to Montclair are going to realistically operate. It's why, and hopefully this is a little bit of relief for students and parents who are looking at this process, from a newer perspective, when you look at how incredibly scary those competitive numbers are at the beginning of the process and you just want to vomit, right?

You can see how like a 6% school, which 6% is still really low. That's lower than a lot of Ivy League schools in their admissions. When you go, my God, that's still really low. It isn't quite as scary as it initially seems if you add up enough of those 6% to 10% schools, right? And then a lot of those schools in that range, when you talk about those schools, in their post-waitlist numbers, they're not necessarily counting that 6%. So maybe that 6% to 10% may become something like 12%, in this case, 12% to 25% or whatever it could become in terms of post-waitlist, which they're not telling you. It just makes the picture a little less scary, hopefully, right? But also, and I guess what's actionable from this, it shows you how important that waitlist movement is.

If half of the class is coming to the waitlist, how important it is that you navigate that as a student. I just love that quote that Ryan gave, our waitlist is my wishlist. I think that is true for so many of these faculty. You hear that time and time again of how much they like the students who are on their waitlist, that they're not second-class citizens, they just barely missed the cut for whatever reason. I know I always feel that way when we hire MTCA coaches.

[1:35:39] Ryan Kasparzcak: The Montclair State Audition Podcast is brought to you by the Montclair School of Law.

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