This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre, College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Tim McGarrigal from Ohio Northern University on the pod. For our newer listeners, it's another one of our college deep dive episodes where we explore the landscape of the college theatre world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. And yes, it's another one of our act two episodes. So we keep going into year six of this podcast, we're going to have more new schools on, of course, we're always having new schools on. I was trying to plot those new points in the landscape, have some fun ones coming up.

Some of them we've been trying to get on for a while, so I'm excited for those. But we are also going to keep doing these act two episodes, some of them act three and act four episodes as well, both in terms of having acting programs on when those acting programs are separate from the musical theatre programs, and then also having different faculty when faculty members change different programs, or sometimes just to keep getting different new perspectives from multiple faculty members at the same programs when we can. It is an ever-changing landscape, we're trying to map it as best we can, we're trying to get all different angles from it, different zoom ins, double clicks on the street view, whatever metaphor you want to make, we're going to keep trying to innovate and do it as best we can.

As always, if you have any schools you really want us to either have on for the first time or have back on, we welcome your feedback. You can write us at mailbag at mappingthecollegeaudition.com or comment on one of our social media posts, whatever floats your boat.

[2:05] Charlie Murphy: Speaking of social media, oh yes, that's right, I did post this last week. I did it, I did a post. I'm up to almost four posts a year and I'm pretty proud of it. And you know, I think like only half of them are collaborations where my wife does all the work, so that's pretty impressive, I know. This is a do as I say, not as I do when we talk about social media and having those creative social media accounts, students. But this post of course was all about our wonderful spring break vacation, which was a joy. I appreciate all of your patience while I was out and all of your kind words about the vacation itself. And then that also that long awaited kindergarten update pod I heard from a lot of you and I thank you, it meant a lot to me.

I know that episode itself may not have been the most satisfying update for those of us who are really paying attention, but it was fun for me to write and hopefully there will be more updates with some good news to come. Though I promise there will be only more updates, there will not be another blog and pod on the whole process, I promise. That's it, we'll just update the one that already existed if we have any news. I hope you are all doing wonderfully out there. Our seniors, our class of 2026, you are in that final stretch of final decisions. Except of course, as we say final stretch, then there's though that weightless excitement that will continue past May 1st, fingers crossed for all of you out there.

And for our junior and younger listeners, we are now in the swing of our online spring masterclass series and looking forward to our in-person summer faculty masterclass week this August. I hope you are all out there planning your years joyfully. Now is a really great time to look ahead and think about what that summer might look like. Of course, when it comes to stuff like MTC events and planning for a mock as we get into the fall, but also planning all of the academic organization you got to do, thinking about just everything that's going to have to happen with your school list and applications, your essays, your coaching to prepare, your pre-screen material, all that kind of stuff. The more you can really make that plan, the more joyful your fall can be.

I promise this process can actually be fun if you're able to plan ahead successfully, and it can be a bit overwhelming if you don't. I mean, to be honest, it can still be a bit overwhelming even if you do plan ahead, but I do really promise it does get fun for most of our students. When you listen to those green room episodes, you can really tell like they're having fun. It's like they put in the work, it was stressful in some points, but they're able to get to this point place of having fun. You really get to that by planning ahead, and that really begins now for those of you as you're wrapping up your junior year.

[4:04] Charlie Murphy: All right, let's dive right into this interview with Tim McGarrigal from Ohio Northern University. We are so excited to be joined by Tim McGarrigal. Tim has a BFA in acting from the University of Connecticut and an MFA in acting from the George Washington University Shakespeare Theatre Company. Very cool. He's worked as a performer, director, choreographer, and fitness instructor. Maybe we'll do some bonus fitness questions at the end if we have time, including as a performer in stuff like the movie Across the Universe. He has recently taken over as head of musical theater at Ohio Northern University, which is still located in Ada, Ohio. He did classes of about 12 to 15 and offered a BFA in MT. Tim, welcome on the show. How are you feeling today?

[4:54] Tim McGarrigal: I'm feeling great. Thank you so much for having me.

[4:55] Charlie Murphy: Of course, of course. We're so excited. It's another one of our Act 2 update episodes. We had David Coolidge on a while back. So for those who are very interested in the program, of course, I invite you to listen to both in whatever order you want to. We'll get to do a little revamp and a refresh on where the program stands today. I know it's pretty new in your tenure here. We'll likely answer a lot of the same questions, but maybe not in full detail. I probably won't go as deep into some of the academic stuff that may be similar as it was four years ago. We'll get a little bit of an update. That was right out of COVID. Now we're out of COVID. So hopefully we'll be in a slightly different place as we do this interview today. First off, before I dive into the school, is there anything you would want to add to that? I gave that brief bio, but is there anything you want to add in terms of your journey to the school or what brings you to Ohio Northern?

[5:36] Tim McGarrigal: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I would just say, I guess somewhat of a unique journey in that I did study acting, which was the conversation between my parents and I of I wanted to dance and my dad had been an athlete. And so he thought acting has more longevity. Also the decision of going to school in state made sense for me financially. But I always, I went to an undergrad program that had a graduate degree program as well. That was really strong. And so that I think kind of laid the foundation for me pretty early on that I knew I wanted to teach. I wanted to get a graduate degree and I've always wanted to direct and choreograph. So, you know, and then getting to be a swing on some tours and we will rock you in Vegas was a great way for me to kind of still perform while I kind of saw the bigger picture. So those were really kind of foundational things that led me to here.

[6:39] Charlie Murphy: I love it. I really love the sort of actor dancer hyphen. I feel like it's not that sometimes we have like singing actors, but the actor dancer hyphen I always think is a really interesting sort of view and lens into the business. So let's talk a little bit. So, you know, especially with you being, you know, this was basically your first year was this last year that you're just completing your first year as we record this. Let's talk about, you know, from your experience seeing different universities and now being in Ohio Northern, what do you think makes an Ohio Northern student? So as of today, if we were to sort of slice the tree and be like, what does it feel like right now? The program is we'll talk a little bit about where it might be going, but what do you sort of see Ohio Northern student as from like an ethos perspective?

[7:15] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah, totally. I think the biggest thing that comes to mind for me is because we have a flexible curriculum, which shows up in a lot of different ways in terms of you can double major, you can triple minor, you can study abroad, you can triple minor. I can get three different minors. My God. Yeah. So there's a lot of different examples I could give you of students, but what's cool is that they really are. There's no two BFAMTs that are on exactly the same track. Very customizable program. So I think we really appeal to people who already are interested in being multi-hyphenates. They want to be well-rounded. They want to figure out who they are as artists, but also in general as humans, they want to participate in Greek life and sports. And so, you know, they're really looking at, you know, a wide variety of ways that can be entrepreneurial from a pretty early stage.

[8:09] Charlie Murphy: I love that. That's great. That's great. You don't often hear triple major or triple minor. Let's talk about, so what does that mean from an academic perspective? You know, whether it's helpful to talk in credit hours or talking like time, how much time am I spending within the major of the BFAMT versus how much time does that mean I'm going to be pulling off those triple minors?

[8:25] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah. So in general, yeah, of course, there's going to be some variation depending on, you know, how much credits you come in with. If you have some, you know, AP courses and things like that. But in general, I would say it's 60 percent of your time is going to be spent in the major.

[8:39] Charlie Murphy: Makes sense.

[8:40] Tim McGarrigal: And then 40 percent to play with outside the major.

[8:44] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. Within the major, what are we talking about in terms of what does that curriculum look like? What are you taking me through the four years in terms of, you know, the acting, the singing, the dancing and the different things I'll get from BFAMT?

[8:52] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah. So every semester, you will always have an acting class. You'll have voice lessons and you'll have a dance class. So that, again, shows up a lot of different ways. We have dance as all leveled. So ballet, modern, tap, jazz. And I teach musical theater dance styles one at one and two levels. So you are required to take at least three semesters of ballet, for example, but you might place into ballet three and then take that three times on a repeat ballet one three times. So it really lends itself to people, you know, customizing it again to their level and what they feel like is going to be the right fit for them.

[9:38] Charlie Murphy: You said I might want to repeat ballet one three times. I don't think that might happen. That might be what I would do because I would never get past it. But I don't know that I want to repeat it three times. Do you feel like is there a discipline of the three that you are known for that you feel like currently you're focusing on? And then also, if there's any shifts that you feel like you're making of like, hey, right now we've got a little more credits in this, but I want to shift for this. Like how do you balance the acting, singing, dancing of it all?

[10:00] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah, I think I would say because of my acting background and I talk to the students all the time about how I was never the most, you know, technical dancer in the room on auditions. I was I booked jobs because I was acting while I was dancing. So I have a really great camaraderie with my colleagues here. So we are I would say the acting is probably the thing that we are really focused on integrating into their voice lessons. We, you know, we do a rep class where it's a chance for all of the different levels, all the different, you know, four years to sing together, to see each other, which gives us a chance to wherever you are in your four years to see what else is out there to kind of glance at some of the vocabulary vernacular that maybe you haven't dove into yet.

James Savage is the head of our BA program. He teaches the acting acting courses. I teach MT acting styles, but we talk all the time about, you know, the Stanislavski, the Meissner. So we're the Laban and that extends into the dance classes as well. So I would say, yeah, integrating all three, but acting would probably be the thing that we're always talking about with storytelling.

[11:25] Charlie Murphy: And how does that work? So with not having a BFA acting, it's a BA acting program. So how does that work in terms of the sort of actors interacting with the MTs of it all? And then also like non-majors, how does it work with if I'm a, say I am triple minoring in something else, but I want to take some theater classes. How does that work at Ohio Northern?

[11:43] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah. So in general, the BFA MTs have probably the most requirements and they have automatic placement into a lot of the classes. If you are a BA and the BA is a theater, BA theater. And so you just have more flexibility and as long as there's space. And so right now, you know, I'm teaching an MT acting styles for the sophomores, which is a smaller class. And so I do have a BA in there. So it's a case by case basis where, you know, you talk to your advisor, talk to that instructor and figure out, you know, if we can get you in there, you know, we always want to give as much opportunity as we possibly can. And generally we try to keep you, if you're a sophomore with sophomores of a different major.

[12:23] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. Totally makes sense. And then you may not be able to give me all the iterations of different triple minors and double majors people could do, but what does it look like from outside the theater school of it all? What does it look like in terms of the academic university and also kind of like the university life? Like what am I going to get it when I step outside of the theater school?

[12:36] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah. I mean, there's there's so much opportunity. It's, you know, it's a small school. There's only 3000 students undergrad. And then the only outside of undergrad, the only thing that is offered is the law school. So there's no other graduate studies, but it's a quite large campus. I just was a judge the other day for a Greek thing. So I got to see what all the fraternities and sororities are up to. And they have a really robust. What were they up to? Up to no good, I'm sure. Very entertaining singing competition, which was awesome. They really brought it. But yeah, a lot of our theater students participate in that as well. But yeah. And then we've got a ton of athletics. There's really and the flexible curriculum extends outside of just the theater department.

So I think in general, that the theater students are unique and that they're that well-rounded and multi-hyphenate, but also outside of the theater students, that flexible curriculum extends to them as well.

[13:36] Charlie Murphy: I love it. OK, talk to me about the way you sort of prepare students for their launch into the business. And I imagine most of this is going to still be how it was. David talked to us a little bit about kind of their creative showcase process of where they were in 2022 in terms of what was virtual and those kind of things. But where does that stand in 2026? What does it look like to sort of be prepared in your time there?

[13:58] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. Today, we're diving deep into Ohio Northern University with Tim McGarrigal, the Assistant Professor and Head of Musical Theatre. Tim, thank you for joining us.

[14:28] Tim McGarrigal: Thanks for having me, Charlie. I'm excited to be here and share what ONU has to offer.

[14:58] Charlie Murphy: Let's start with the curriculum. I know ONU has a flexible curriculum. Can you tell us more about how that works for students?

[15:26] Tim McGarrigal: Absolutely! Our curriculum is designed to be adaptable, allowing students to explore various interests. They can balance their degrees with double majors or multiple minors, which really helps them tailor their education to their career goals.

[15:54] Charlie Murphy: That sounds fantastic. How do students typically manage that balance?

[16:22] Tim McGarrigal: It requires good time management and support from faculty. We encourage students to communicate with their advisors regularly to ensure they're on track while still pursuing their passions.

[16:50] Charlie Murphy: Speaking of support, how does ONU prepare students for the business after graduation?

[17:18] Tim McGarrigal: We focus on practical experience. Students participate in numerous productions, internships, and workshops with industry professionals. This hands-on approach helps them build a strong resume and network before they even graduate.

[17:46] Charlie Murphy: That's crucial. What role does community play in the ONU experience?

[18:14] Tim McGarrigal: Community is at the heart of what we do. We foster a collaborative environment where students support each other, both academically and artistically. This sense of belonging is vital for their growth as artists.

[18:42] Charlie Murphy: It sounds like a nurturing environment. How do you think that impacts their development?

[19:10] Tim McGarrigal: It significantly impacts their confidence and creativity. When students feel safe to express themselves, they take risks in their work, which is essential for artistic growth.

[19:38] Charlie Murphy: That's a great point. What advice would you give to prospective students considering ONU?

[20:06] Tim McGarrigal: I would say to visit the campus, meet the faculty, and get a feel for the community. It's important to find a place where you feel you can thrive both personally and artistically.

[20:34] Charlie Murphy: Excellent advice. Thank you, Tim, for sharing these insights about Ohio Northern University.

[21:02] Tim McGarrigal: Thank you for having me, Charlie. I'm looking forward to seeing the next generation of artists come through ONU.

[21:30] Charlie Murphy: And to our listeners, if you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com.

[21:58] Tim McGarrigal: We're here to help!

[22:26] Charlie Murphy: Don't forget to check out MTCA for individualized preparation for your college audition journey.

[22:54] Tim McGarrigal: Absolutely, it's a great resource.

[23:22] Charlie Murphy: Thanks again, Tim. Until next time, keep exploring your options and finding the right fit for your artistic journey.

[23:50] Tim McGarrigal: Thank you, Charlie!

[24:18] Charlie Murphy: This has been Mapping The College Audition, part of the Broadway Podcast Network.

[24:46] Tim McGarrigal: Take care, everyone!

[25:14] Charlie Murphy: Bye for now!

[25:42] Tim McGarrigal: Bye!

[26:10] Charlie Murphy: See you next time!

[26:38] Tim McGarrigal: Looking forward to it!

[27:06] Charlie Murphy: Bye!

[27:57] Tim McGarrigal: You're sniffing for warmth. They all are now going to know to say the word community, so you're going to hear that from all the podcasts. What are you looking for in that interaction? What are you hoping to discover on their end, from you, from them, but also on their perspective? What are you hoping is going to happen in that exchange with the interview?

[28:17] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah, I mean, of course, I think probably any school, you want the people that you feel like are going to be a good fit, that they're going to be happy here. So, you know, I always try to be super clear about the fact that, you know, we're not a conservatory, and we are not in a big city. You know, we are in a rural area of the country. So if you're looking for that, if you're looking for a chance to have a flexible curriculum to kind of shape your own path, then that's something that, you know, it's exciting when, you know, we had people auditioning who sat down at the piano and said, oh, actually, you know, I composed something. Can I play it for you? Awesome. So yeah, things that make me excited to teach them. So yeah, I think that shows up in a lot of different ways. I love it.

[29:01] Tim McGarrigal: And then you mentioned really liking the wild card. What is it that you like to see? I mean, you don't have to give me, I like it when they juggle or whatever, but what are you looking for in those wild cards that you feel like is especially revealing for you?

[29:14] Tim McGarrigal: I think a sense of joy. Something that, you know, whether it's riding their jet ski or, you know, playing cards with their grandmother, like something that just gives me a little peek into, you know, what lights them up and makes them excited about what they're doing.

[29:30] Tim McGarrigal: And how much do you feel like you're looking for originality or something that is truly wild? You know, sometimes it's one of the questions that people go, how wild does wild card have to be? Because I do feel like there's a little bit of wildness inflation that happens because they hear about their last year's class and they hear about the five most wild, and then they go, mine's not wild. So how do you feel in terms of, do you like the wild or wild cards? Do you like to be playing cards with grandmas? Not too wild, I guess, but how do you feel in terms of what you see in those?

[29:54] Tim McGarrigal: I think, honestly, it is something that, yeah, it's more than it doesn't feel like they're just doing something for shock value or that it doesn't feel like the idea isn't to necessarily be wild. I think it's to show a different side of yourself that, you know, it might be a poem that you're just reading that, you know, it just shows a different side of you. So I think it's just something that is like a contrasting piece, right? When you have two contrasting pieces, like contrasting can mean so many different things. So showing us something that, you know, it might be another dance. It might be another song that just is another extra thing that is a different layer that doesn't feel quite as performative.

[30:39] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah, I love that. Great. OK, you mentioned we don't want to keep those SAT scores secret if they're good. Is there anything from the academic side of things that you do interact with that at all? Do you see their grades in SATs when they're auditioning for you or how do you interact with the academic application at all?

[30:52] Tim McGarrigal: A little bit. It's more so on the tail end, I would say, once we know, you know, we really want somebody that's when or if they reach out to us and say, hey, you know, what else can I is there anything else I can get from financial aid? That might be the point where I'll go into Slate or Dr. Clark will go into Slate and look at their GPA and kind of, you know, call up the admissions folks and say, hey, they've got a really or they if there's been a discrepancy, right, if they this current semester, actually, my GPA is a lot higher. So we update that. So those are the moments where I'll step in, but it's not necessarily before then.

[31:33] Tim McGarrigal: But are you reading their essays or do you read like there's anything supplemental? Nothing like that. OK, great. And then how rigorous is it in terms of the academic admission? How does that look in terms of your end of things, of what they would need to get into Ohio?

[31:42] Tim McGarrigal: I don't think it's terribly, you know, rigorous. It's yeah, I mean, again, I'm only aware once we get to that point of it's rare that I've seen somebody that I don't know if they're going to academically be accepted. We really have to pull for them. And generally, students have been great about giving us a heads up about something like that of, hey, my, you know, my freshman year, I was going through something. I my GPA dropped. But if we look at this and the current one, I can update it and then we can maybe have to do an appeal for their financial aid. So then conversation.

[32:25] Tim McGarrigal: And what else are you thinking about as you're building a class? I mean, you know, obviously, to some extent, you're going to be looking toward the talent that you're seeing, right? You're talking about the kind of human being that they're going to be and that they're going to fit into this community. Of course, you want them to be looking for this kind of school. Right. What else, especially, you know, think about the intimate program. You're talking about 12 to 15 kids a year. We're talking about 48 to 60 over the course of the whole BFA program. You know, what do you think? Are you thinking about stuff like gender balance and height balance and size balance and racial diversity, geographic diversity? Like, how do you make that whole the 48 to 60 people all go together? And how do those considerations come into factor for you?

[33:02] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely an ongoing, you know, puzzle. Right. But I think, you know, I think all that stuff is somewhat secondary. You know, the first thing being, do they feel like they're a good fit in terms of that Ohio Northern? This is where they want to be and what we offer in terms of doing six productions a year, auditioning as a freshman. And then they have some degree of awareness around who they are and what they want. I think that really helps because it keeps, you know, part of that flexible curriculum and double major, triple minor shows up also, I think, in keeping us from feeling like a cutthroat competitive. Everybody really has their own path. So I find that the students are really supportive of one another.

I would love to increase our diversity as much as possible. But again, I know that, you know, the location is limiting to some people. So yeah, I think the personality, the talent are the kind of two biggest things. And then, yes, of course, you know, we think about, you know, but we are also open to switching. We do casting. You know, a non-binary student playing Anatole in Comet. So, you know, we try to be flexible with that so that we're not too limited with like, we have to have, you know, five male, five female.

[34:28] Tim McGarrigal: So that is... Meaning if your population ended up more female identifying than male identifying, you can pick the season to make that work. And you go, I don't have to be exactly that.

[34:36] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we always ask in every audition, you know, are you comfortable playing any gender? Because that might, you know, and that might, we understand that might change throughout their four years, what they feel comfortable exploring.

[34:50] Tim McGarrigal: Totally makes sense. And one thing I don't think we mentioned in the audition side of things is online auditions. Do you do any online auditions? How does that work in 2026 for you?

[34:58] Tim McGarrigal: For the program you mean?

[34:59] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah.

[35:00] Tim McGarrigal: No, we haven't. We really like to stay in person if possible. Yeah.

[35:08] Tim McGarrigal: I love it. Okay. Just to reassure our nervous parents out there, post UArts, we've, you know, there's been the fear of closures and financial issues in different schools with now it's not just UArts in terms of schools being bought out by other schools, though UArts is the only one that at least of the BFAs that has had this, you know, or the high profile BFAs that had a collapse. But how are the finances looking at at Ohio Northern? Can you give us any car facts?

[35:35] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah, no, we're, we're really solid. Yeah. And only getting, you know, more and more solid. We just had a meeting with the president and our dean, and they reassured that, you know, we're, our department is, is, is doing really well. So I think they're really happy with us and our growth.

[35:52] Charlie Murphy: Awesome. May that continue?

[35:54] Tim McGarrigal: Yes.

[35:54] Charlie Murphy: Okay. What about advice for the parents? I mentioned that the nervous parents, you know, as you've gotten to interact, especially this year with, you know, parents who are helping their children through this process, you know, a lot of our listeners are parents, we of course have student listeners too, but plenty of our listeners will be parents, especially of the freshmen and the sophomores, they're starting to just look at this process and they're, they're trying to get a window in. And then certainly as the juniors and seniors are ramping up, what advice would you have for a nervous parent who's trying to guide their child through this process?

[36:24] Tim McGarrigal: That's a tough one. I mean, I think, you know, trusting, trusting them, of course, in, in-person campus visits, I think are just beyond valuable. I'm the youngest of three and my older siblings, I got to like experience their college tours with them. And there were colleges that, you know, counselors and people had recommended to them and we drove there and my sister wouldn't get out of the car. This is not it. Like she just knew in her gut. So I think that's really important. And then the next best thing, and that's why we do always an interview component. So even if that's, you know, I have some perspectives that we've, we've done a Google meet or we've done a Zoom call where we can just, just sit down and talk.

We connect the perspectives as well with our current students, because I think that's really important. We do a big event this weekend where they come to see the spring musical and they can do an overnight and stay on campus with a current student. So I think all of that is, is, you know, hopefully going to help. And there's no, there's no application fee. So I think, you know, no harm to foul to like cast a wide net and, you know, look into as many programs as you can. And, and really, I think just figuring out what you want in terms of, do you want a big city? Do you want a small school? Do you want all class size, you know?

[37:46] Tim McGarrigal: And, and that onstage experience, you know, again, I think something I've heard from, from people is that it's unique to us that within their first semester, they might be on stage because we do a holiday show. So within the first couple of weeks they're auditioning. So it's a lot of, you know, a lot of that. And then there's, you know, other programs that, you know, maybe it's more appealing to say, I want to spend my first year, like not having auditions, not worrying about that yet, taking my time. So yeah.

[38:12] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. I think it's great advice. And especially those things that are more static, there's things you won't know in the process, like what my vibes are with this person. You will know things like, do I want to get a double major? Do I, I mean, that's the kind of stuff you could figure out of like, do I want rural? Do I want city? I mean, you know, you might change and things do evolve, but some of those things you can try to identify earlier on and, and save your wallet a little bit. So you're not traveling to the schools that, you know, this is a hard no before I walk out of the car.

[38:37] Tim McGarrigal: Yeah, exactly. Or do I want to study abroad? Do I want to participate in Greek life? Cause you know, where I went to undergrad, there was no, I really wanted to be a cheerleader and that was not an option. I was super bummed.

[38:51] Charlie Murphy: There's still time, Tim. The Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader is a whole show on it now. You can make it happen. I believe in you.

[38:58] Tim McGarrigal: This is great. Tim, if people want to find more information on Ohio Northern, where's the best place you want to send them? Do you like online? I mean, do you like social media? Do you like website? What's the best place to get more info?

[39:04] Tim McGarrigal: Our social media is fantastic. It's at ONU Theater Arts. The students completely run it and create content for it and they update it all the time. It's super current. You can look at our masterclass series. You can look at all the people who've come to campus, the production rehearsals. I love it. And you even, you sent me something that we're going to link in the show notes as well, which is an article. It seems like about ONU itself. So we'll put that in the show notes along with the links to your social media.

[39:35] Tim McGarrigal: Thanks so much for the time. It's so great getting to chat with you.

[39:38] Tim McGarrigal: Thank you. I really appreciate it. I'm a big fan of the pod and it's been, it was super helpful to me as I was exploring where I wanted to go and interviewing at different schools and stuff.

[39:42] Charlie Murphy: All shucks, Tim. All shucks. We're not just for the parents and the students and we're for the faculty too.

[39:51] Tim McGarrigal: That's what we do here.

[39:51] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

[40:00] Charlie Murphy: Yes, yes, yes. So fun to get to chat with Tim and so touching to hear the podcast is helpful, not just to our students and parents, but also to faculty. I've now heard that from a number of different faculty members, both on the pod itself and then sometimes offline. And I really do find it touching and deeply humbling. I will say that is not an intention we had when we were starting out the podcast. I really wanted to help our families and try to be a resource and democratize the process. And there are a lot of things we're looking for. I did not think, oh, faculty members are going to listen to this and innovate their programs based on it. But that's a very humbling thing and means a lot to have Tim say that.

[40:31] Charlie Murphy: Okay. Let's get into some quick takeaways here. Just a quick underline and a bit of an eyebrow raise to that idea of a double major and a triple minor and how common those are. I love that phrase. It's not one that you hear roll off the tongue so commonly in our field. With the BFA programs, sometimes you'll hear double major, sometimes more likely you'll hear minor. But the idea of double major or triple minor, it's a lot. But I do think one of those helpful identifying statistics for students who are looking for that kind of academic experience, that is the kind of static thing that we talk about in this pod of like, if you know you want that, well, your list should reflect that that's something that you want.

And this is a great example where that's something that's true and not at a school that is as competitive academically. So it's not necessarily an elite academic university, but can still provide that kind of academics. That's a cool school. So it's worth noting for those of you who might be looking for that.

[41:21] Charlie Murphy: And I thought fun to get a bit of like wellness in the context of fitness. I don't know that we really said anything that was going to be revolutionary of sort of what, how fitness fits into the wellness space and almost should be its whole episode. But it's kind of fun to hear about some of the stuff they're doing at ONU. You know, I really do feel like wellness is one of those words that can mean like everything and nothing. Like I do think it is a term, you know, get kind of buzzwordy and kind of woo woo. And sometimes I feel like it almost loses its meaning when people are talking about the wellness space in general. But then again, as an artist,

[42:56] Charlie Murphy: There is a buildup of the tenacity and the resilience that is as important as your physical health. And then of course we talk about vocal health and all the things we talk about in the pod, and a lot of those things I think go without saying as well. And even beyond those three, you know, those are three that I've used a lot of times as words, but you know, all the other things that go into wellness too, as you sort of explore that umbrella. You know, we've done more and more episodes in the past few years with stuff like how you breathe, how you navigate your nervous system. But I do think it's really interesting as my generation learns about this particular umbrella and how it unfolds for our students.

It's like, oh yeah, wellness, that's like part of your life. But it was not a space that existed in the same way when we were all going to school. It just wasn't a word that was like out there, right? It is really being created now. It's been created in the past 10, 15 years in terms of the schools and really what they're doing with it. And it's just being understood in a different way and then kind of re-infused into training programs in really interesting ways. You know, and I'll say personally, as I explore it and I go deeper, I always feel like, oh, I thought that was the end of it, but no, there is a little more deeper there. And wow, that's a whole other avenue we could explore, right?

I really find it fascinating to continue to explore that space for myself. And I do feel like a lot of these concepts are things that existed in school to some extent when I was there, just without necessarily being named wellness. Like when we talk about like voice class or movement class, like definitely some of these concepts were taught or on a seminar, we say in acting class, you know, as much as I do deeply believe that acting training should not be confused for therapy. And certainly it's in a substitute for therapy. You can understand sometimes why it functions that way and how sometimes the psychological, you know, understanding of a character is going to relate to some extent to unpacking yourself and unpacking your own psyche.

Right. And so certainly that's true with how you breathe that, you know, how you use your voice, how you move and what that means in terms of physical wellness. But I'm excited to see all the ways in which the increased understanding of some of this stuff will keep informing our training. And I think that is, we're on the cutting edge of that now, and it's continuing to cut that edge. It's continuing to innovate. It's really exciting.

[45:19] Charlie Murphy: Okay. Speaking of different spaces, I just want to shout out to that joke we made about holding space and sort of what holding space is as a competitive form of auditioning is what Tim said is like the most important thing he's looking for. You know, I will say for those of you who didn't catch that, I think it was a wicked meme. You know, you can Google, I think it's Cynthia Erivo and holding space. If you don't understand that the wicked meme, but I do think it is just worth noting and remembering for those out there, especially for more nervous auditioners. And I would even say for the, like the hungry auditioners who are out there who really feel like my job as an auditioner is to like prove myself.

I want to lean forward and show them something about myself and prove that I'm worthy, prove that I'm good. But whatever that instinct to like lean forward and prove and project outward, just that reminder for yourself of how powerful and important the idea of holding space is of like, I sometimes call it like owning your spine and owning your backbone and what it is to have that energy that's moving backward as well. You know, Tim's just talk called it just breathing honestly in a room. Like sometimes you could think about that as like, what is to really live in the moment, breathe in the actual moment that's happening. Those things are just so important. Like you can't triple underline and bold them enough.

And of course you can't only do that, right? They are going to expect you to sing some songs and monologues. You can't just walk in the room, breathe honestly and walk out. Right. But once you've put in that hard work, once you've really thought about your pieces and all the stuff that you've done before you walk in the room, don't forget that important work of what it is to walk in the room and really breathe in that actual space in an actual way. It's so important and it is work, right? It's not something that just happens. It's not like you're the kind of person who breathes honestly and you're not like, no, it is a practice that one has to learn of what it is to walk in a room and be able to live in the moment and be able to be present.

It's a skill that you can develop and some people are maybe it comes a little more naturally too, but everybody has to work at it and is something that all of you should be thinking about and working on.

[49:17] Charlie Murphy: And then just to keep it quick with the idea of wildness, inflation of the wild card. I mean, I really think that is a natural phenomenon that's been happening as, you know, almost any process evolves and develops, you know, that the next year is going to learn from the class before and they're going to iterate it on what they do in positive ways. I think it's natural and good, but just to say that you want to be aware when that inflation is coming from anxiety. We've talked about that idea of anxiety and inflation, which talks about like school list inflation and how, you know, that very good advice, a very well-intentioned advice that we've given an MTCA for years of like, it's smart to cast a wide net, to have a large balanced list is a really good idea.

But if you keep letting that inflation grow 20% and then 20% more and then 20% more, all of a sudden you have people ending up applying for 50 schools, which was never the advice that we've recommended. Right? So the same idea with your wild card, right? I love creativity. I love the idea of, you know, letting smart ideas from peers who did this last year or two years ago, let those inspire you to get creative. And what does that make me think of? And how can I iterate off of that? I think it's great. Right. But just don't throw out a good idea. If that feels authentic to you, if something that you feel like, hey, I think this is something that works just because that good idea is not wilder than the wildest idea you saw, heard from the year before.

That's just not the goal of what a wild card has to be. It's not serving you or serving anyone to be like, to go for shock value. Like Tim said, right. You know, it's kind of like the idea we talk about often with material and, you know, having material that's not overdone, certainly a good idea to not have stuff that's done all the time or have all your material be stuff that's, you know, is incredibly common or incredibly overdone. But the goal is not to find all of these pieces that nobody's ever heard before, right? The goal is to find the right pieces that showcase you how you want to be seen. So just because somebody else did something in their wild card before doesn't mean it couldn't be great for you.

Again, we haven't seen you do that version of it, right? The same thing's true for your piece. We haven't seen your version of this song or your version of this thing, right? The same analogy holds there. If you're being lazy and just doing a piece because your high school teacher told you, hey, you're perfect for this and you go, all right, I guess I'll do that, right? That's probably not the best way to pick material. And the same is true for your wild card, right? If you're just too stressed and you go, I guess I'm overwhelmed. It's a white blank page. I have no ideas. And so then you just do the first idea that your mom tells you. Your mom says, you should do this. And you go, okay, I'm going to do that.

I don't love that as a process. Right. But if you're inspired by something and you go, I think this feels right, even if it's something that's done before or even if it's something that's not incredibly wild, more power to you. I say go for it.

[54:03] Charlie Murphy: OK. And then I think we've talked about this advice of like, what are the static aspects? You know, we talked about the idea of is it a city school or is it a school where you can double major or triple minor in this case? Right. And the idea of like, can you do that research in advance and try to sniff out some of that stuff so that you can save your wallet when it comes to traveling? You know, that idea that Tim talks about of going to audition to a school where you've sent in an application, you've sent in a prescreen, you pass the prescreen. Now you're showing up for a live audition with a plane ticket and a hotel. And then you realize, wait a second, this is a tiny rural campus and I definitely don't want that.

That does feel like a waste of time and money if you can avoid it. And I think likely that's obvious to all of you. But it takes some strategy to go. How do I actually apply that advice of what are the static things? You know, because of course, I always give that caveat of like, you don't always know what you don't know. And your taste really does evolve, right? You may think you love the idea of a city. And then as you spend more time in a city, or maybe you love the idea of a city, but New York City itself is a little overwhelming when you spend more and more time there, right? That is the kind of thing that happens for so many factors. I think I want this. But then as the process goes, it shifts and changes.

So of course, a little bit of grace for yourself that you might not know all of these aspects, right? And also, I do always add for our students that if some of those smaller factors, some of the factors like Greek life, or, you know, does the school have a big sports, you know, I want a big 10 sports, or I really care about certain aspects of geography or the weather, right? If those things aren't deal breakers for you, I think that's generally a great thing. If they can be more tie breakers that you have a sense of, but they're not completely deal breakers, given how competitive this process is, and how much is out of your control when you talk about just the theater program, and how much those ideas of what goes on in the theater program often is the deciding factor for our students.

Having watched people go through this time and time again, that is this thing that right now, as they're making their final decisions, it's normally about their relationship with those specific faculty members, or sometimes it's about the reputation of the program that can weigh in, it can be about the vibes of the student, does this feel like the right fit for me, that normally takes precedent over some of these things like the campus, you know, the feel of the campus and some of those things that you might have a more static, concrete sense of, you know, so I love it when our students, if you're able to, when they can stay as open as possible, with some of those smaller factors, like, I don't know that I want a lot of winter or those kind of things, right?

So I do think it's a delicate balance, you know, then again, the balance of it, if a school is a hard no for you, right? If there's an idea of like, I just, I do not want to go to the South, that is just a no for me, or I don't want to go to school in a city or whatever it is, and that's not going to change for you, then absolutely save yourself the time and money, right? Or for some of our students, they may say, this is more of a soft no, I think I'm leaning more toward this, that would be a good reason to go, maybe I'm going to prioritize those schools are going to be unified schools. So the schools that I travel to are going to be the ones that I go, I'm really excited enough, because I know this is, you know, maybe it's a drive instead of a plane ride, or I know this is what I'm really excited about the school.

So those may be the ones I would travel to, versus the other ones would get a unified slot, or even an online audition, that would make a lot of sense, right? And you're only, you know, just on the off chance that, well, if the money was good enough, and if this was, I'm not going to take, you know, the school off my list, because of the positive factors, even though it's a soft no for me, I think that's a smart way of thinking it. But if you come into the process too close minded, you know, if you have too many of those static factors, that's also not a great thing, right? If you say, I know, I can only go to school in New York City, and it has to be a liberal arts style BFA, you're not really giving yourself a wide enough net to cast.

And you're not really going through the process and getting to have that experience of like, who do I vibe with from an audition perspective. So again, a balance, definitely recommend what Tim said about like, can you identify some of those static factors, that's really smart to go, I don't want you to be in that situation where you're not getting out of your car, actually, you go, what is this campus? I had no idea. But then, of course, finding that balance of going, what are the things that are actually the most important to you? It shouldn't just be because something is static and knowable, that it necessarily rises to the top of your list. Then again, we do want to think about this. So that's the delicate balance, of course, that I always say, it's not an easy answer until you've gone through this process.

Once you've gone through this process, you're like, oh, now I see what's actually going to be most important to you. But of course, most of you listening have not done this process before. All right, let's wrap there on another episode of Mapping the College Edition, produced by Megan Courtier and Kelly Prendergrast with social media work by Jordan Rice. Follow us at Mapping the College Edition on Instagram. Check us out on YouTube, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, however you like to engage with your podcast life. And of course, don't be afraid to engage with your podcast life with a rating and review, it won't hurt you. And now I have to say, I realized I must be saying this all so aggressively to all of you.

Maybe I'm using my stern dad voice or whatever, because so many of our parents will come to me and be like, Charlie, I'm such a fan of the podcast. And yes, I did write you a review as if I was going to like yell at them in person to be like, you better write me a review, which I promise I won't do in person. If you don't want to write us a review, it's fine. I'll still love you as a listener, right? You could just maybe tell a friend about the pod or not. You could not do any of those things. You could just shut your phone device and do absolutely nothing. And I will love you anyway. My love is not conditional to all of you. So there you go. And as always, you can head to MDCA.com for help with your individual college process and to see all of those final decisions of our class of 2026 when they come out on May 1st. To my young artists out there mapping their journeys, please trust that you're enough for the right program exactly as you are right now. Now keep striving. Catch you next week.