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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre, College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Tom Delbello from Texas State University on the pod. For our newer listeners, it's another one of our College Deep Dive episodes, where we explore the landscape of the college theatre world and try to demystify this daunting audition process. It's also another one of our Act 2 episodes, or really almost an Act 3 episode, since we had Caitlin Hopkins on to talk about the MT program, but also Neil Patrick Stewart on to talk about the BFA acting program. But however you consider it, act-wise, it is a chance to get an update on this program.

And I know this has been one of our most anticipated follow-up episodes, not only because people were interested in hearing about the program and its new leadership, but also because, as Tom reveals in the episode, Texas State is going to be joining us in LA this year for some private auditions with MTCA. We're so excited about that. So lots of good reasons to have Tom on, aside from the fact that they were one of our most frequently raved about masterclasses at our Summer Faculty Masterclass Week, but so many good reasons. So I'm excited for you to hear this episode. I do say it in the interview itself, but I know I've talked about this transition before, Texas State's transition, on the other podcasts, just being an enviable thing, mostly just about where there was a lot of care and planning and forethought in the transition.

Not that this is unique amongst programs. Certainly we've seen other programs where heads retire and the transition goes smoothly and effectively. But I do think in the past five years, especially with the turmoil of the pandemic and a lot of faculty movement, that sort of was the snowball effect of all the different faculty movement, not every transition has been as smooth as this one. But we'll talk about that a bit more in the takeaways. I won't go too deep on that right here. I will say, speaking of those private auditions that Tom will break the news on later in this episode, that all of our MTCA families should have gotten the email now outlining what we have confirmed for this year in terms of private audition weekends and our intention of not only our private audition weekend in December, but then those four other instances at the top of January, as well as in front of each of the National Unified Cities, where we'll have two schools.

So the total of 14 of those wonderful private auditions. We are really excited for this expansion this year, something we've been talking about for a while now, and we're really happy to bring it to this class. So for those MTCA students, do stay tuned to your inboxes for more details and registration information as it becomes available. Like many of our events, these will likely fill up very quickly and I don't want anyone to miss out due to being slow to register. So pay attention to those inboxes. A good rule of thumb in general, as you get organizational with your college experience, is pay attention to that darn inbox. As far as me, life is good here. School has started now for Solvay and we're trying to get in the groove of the transition from summer to fall.

I hope you're all doing swimmingly as well. We have had a lot of love come in recently and I really appreciate it. We've had a lot of love for the pod come in from all kinds of different sources. So I just want to really say thank you for that. It is always appreciated in all of the different forms that I receive that, whether it's in person, at our events, via social media, via email, but especially for those who give us ratings and reviews when you leave those on your podcast platforms of choice. Like a few of these recent reviews, one of which is from Geraro0409 who says, I started listening to this a couple years ago when my kids started expressing serious interest in pursuing musical theater as a career.

The College Deep Dive episodes are one of my main sources for information on BFA slash BMMT programs and I don't think there's anywhere else I can hear the insight that Charlie deftly elicits from faculty. This is a must listen for MT artists and their families supporting them on this career path. Thank you, MTCA. Boy, are you welcome, Geraro. And I like that term, deftly elicits. So kind of you to say so. Or Momof2 in Alaska who says, this podcast has been incredibly helpful to me and my son as we begin getting our heads around the MT audition and college selection process. We are so thankful for it. And we are thankful for you, Momof2 in Alaska, as well as all of you amazing listeners who are listening to my voice right now.

Those of you who are able to drop those ratings and reviews, it is really helpful for us in reaching other like-minded listeners and passing on some of this great information that we work so hard to elicit, to deftly elicit. So thank you to all of you for however you pass the word along. But if you can do it this way, you might just hear me embarrassingly read your screen name on this show. And sometimes I do accents. I didn't do accents this time. Maybe I'll bring those back. I should have whipped out my Canadian accent in honor of Tom today. So with that, with no further ado, eh, that's like Scottish, with no further ado, eh, Canadian, let's get this interview with Tom DelBello from Texas State University.

[5:11] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by Tom DelBello from Texas State. Tom has a BFA in acting and directing from the University of Lethbridge, a master's in directing from Texas State University. This very one was in the world premiere of Andrew Lloyd Webber's The Boys in the Photograph, toured with Joseph and the Amazing Colored Dreamcoat. I think I said colored, but not Technicolor, but we understood the musical I was referring to. And it's currently co-head of musical theater and head of production and new works at Texas State, which is located in San Marcos, Texas. They take classes about 12 to 14 people. They offer a BFA in MT and then lots of other cool BFAs with different emphases. Tom, welcome on the pod. How are you doing today?

[5:46] Tom DelBello: I'm so good. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate this opportunity.

[5:50] Charlie Murphy: We're honored and excited. And our regular listeners are going to be familiar with this little spiel I'm going to do, but this is another one of our act two episodes where we're having a school back on to get some updates, dive a bit deeper into the program. You know, we will do some of the regular questions that we asked when we had Caitlin on and of course, get your perspective on them, but we won't go through every single question. So I do invite and encourage all the listeners. You can listen back to that episode, not only to get a little bit of history, the little history of the pod, because it was one of our first episodes, but to get some of those original details. And then we're going to recover a lot of that from Tom's point of view as well.

But before I get into the Texas state of it all, is there anything you want to add to that brief bio in terms of like your journey to Texas state? If you want to give me like the elevator pitch of who Tom is before we talk about your school.

[6:32] Tom DelBello: Sure. Yeah. I, as you kind of mentioned, I was a musical theater performer for 20 years. I am from Canada. I did get my musical theater degree at Sheridan College in Toronto. Yeah. And yeah, so I just, you know, I was one of those actors who, as I was working on that world premiere musical, actually I was sitting on the side of the room and I was trying to understand like, why are we moving in this way? And what is the concept here and all this? And so my brain was really moving in a, in a director kind of brain all of a sudden. And I was like, okay, well, what is this? And I started to explore it a little bit more and I realized I have something else to say with my storytelling and having gone through the industry, you know, for 20 years and the schooling that I had, I was just like, what else could we be doing to better prepare people for this?

And so I knew I wanted to teach at the university college level. And so I wanted to get my MFA in directing. And originally, you know, I thought, oh, I'll probably just get my MFA in Canada or somewhere, you know, somewhere close. And then somebody who was teaching at the University of Lethbridge had gone through the Texas State University system and told me about it. And they were like, Hey, and you should look Caitlin Hopkins is running that program. And so of course I went online and I started looking and I was like, hold on, what? And so that I immediately applied. I was so lucky. I got added onto the cohort. There were already two MFA directors coming to do plays. And they were like, we want you to come and emphasis on musical theater.

And part of that was getting to mentor with Caitlin, like Caitlin as my mentor. So it was kind of a win all around. And when I got down to the university, it was almost shocking to me. I was like, well, these people are speaking my language. The values of this program is speaking my language and getting Caitlin was so wonderful and Cassie Abate, who was here at the time and just really welcoming me into the fold and guiding me down this path of, Hey, as an educator, it is possible to teach in this way, in a way that is mentally healthy and a sustainable way. And so the students have these longer careers, you know, and it was just truly, it felt like magic to me.

[9:02] Charlie Murphy: And I don't know if I'm going to get to talk about the university a little bit later, but this is where we're going. Let's, let's get right into it, but let's give the update from, so imagine someone just finished that Caitlin episode, right. And, and they're, you know, or just someone who's heard about the program, but it's been a little while. Can you give us a little update on what the sort of transition from Caitlin was, or is, and now structured with these co-heads? So can we talk about that? And in Cassie, there was that period. So just talk to me about like, if I just listened and it was in 2020, and now here I'm in 2025, what is the program now?

[9:27] Tom DelBello: So now it is, um, we do have three co-heads that run the program and you have me, you have Erin Brown, uh, who does the student relations and you have Kira Carper, who's new to us this year. And we are finally a full faculty, uh, and Kira will be head of curriculum and recruiting. And there's also just an incredible, uh, musical theater dance instructor. Um, we also have Jackson Perrin, who's now the head of One Voice and Deontay Warren is a One Voice teacher. We have Spencer Hanson as music director and Amy Radix is the head of music direction. And so we are this and Julio Catano, the amazing Julio Catano is head of musical theater dance. We are finally a full faculty. So we've gone through this transition and now we are a full faculty and we have gone through, you know, times have changed since 2020, obviously.

And through that transition, we've been able to kind of, um, the program in a way that, um, really looks at like where we are today with the industry and what the students need right now in this industry. And so for me, it's like, we're really, we, we're kind of a program where we're looking for, especially like the kind of students that we're looking for. We're looking for people who are curious. We're looking for, um, students who, you know, are interested in a wellness-based program. So we talk about our program as being like holistic, wellness-based and customized. And it really is that. We're holistic in that all eight of us really do work together. You'll get some crossover in classes.

You'll get us co-teaching classes, um, and wellness-based. We really are like, that is that foundation that Caitlin and Cassie really laid for us. And we do still honor that because it truly is kind of the thing that put us on the map and it keeps us on the map because it's something that is so beneficial for the students.

[11:22] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. And it sounds like, so a lot of the ethos of what Caitlin started really is still there. The, in terms of any kind of direct involvement, how is Caitlin, is Caitlin still, um, are you still in communication or are you still involved with the students? How, what is her level of involvement currently?

[11:35] Tom DelBello: Caitlin is still a co-producer, uh, of our senior showcase, which is awesome and stays on board. We call her our founder still. Right. And so it's still involved with the university, um, works with our donors and we have started, we launched last year, a whole alumni program for further education for our alumni. And what this is, is, uh, Caitlin will do masterclasses in New York City with our alumni, and we're starting to build up other kinds of masterclasses that are accessible for our alumni and they are free of charge. And it's just a way of us keeping in touch with our alumni because a big part of the Texas State Musical Theater experience is this idea of mentorship through students and teachers, but it's that alumni who are still so involved with our program.

And Caitlin really does keep in touch with the alumni and keep working with the alumni and helps like get the information back to us. Um, one of the things that has really just blown my mind over the last two years is the way alumni will reach out to me all the time and be like, Hey, this is changing in the way that we're doing video submissions for auditions. Do you have this updated in your curriculum? They are constantly coming back and telling us, Hey, here's what's happening right now, just to make sure that you're doing it because it's impacting me as somebody who's out in the industry and it'd be great if your seniors coming out to the industry knew all this.

[12:53] Charlie Murphy: It's so cool having that feedback looping. And I just, I'll say for the record, uh, you know, I've said it on a couple of different episodes, actually talking about different programs and maybe less successful transitions. Um, but just what an enviable position this is as a university to be able to have that kind of smooth and intentional transition over multiple years, really is over a period of time, you know, as opposed to, you're normally lucky if you get even a couple months when you know someone's leaving and they're, but they're kind of leaving and they're kind of taking some of the reputation with them and some, and so finding that little bit of, um, stability in the intentionality and the transition is really, really nice for the students.

[13:27] Tom Delbello: So we have actually started a singer-songwriter club that was created by our students as a faculty advisor, but it's for things like that where they meet every week and then at the end of the year we get to watch them do kind of like a showcase of what they've done and a lot of them have gone on to record EPs or release albums and things like that. So it is just where they're finding their interest and they're starting to realize it's like great, I'm gonna get this musical theater degree anyway, but while I'm here, why don't I round this out so that when I'm out there, there's so much more I can do.

[18:59] Tom Delbello: Yeah, so well said. Any updates or changes to the showcase of it all? So I mean other than that Caitlin is still there co-producing, but in terms of in 2025 postcode, I think when we were talking about it was probably a virtual only if I'm actually listening back to the episode I'm guessing in 2021, but what does it look like in terms of 2025 showcase wise? We are back in person. We take it to New York and we do it three times in one day for the industry. And it's been very exciting to go back in person. It really has been and we have our virtual option, of course, that is available on our showcase website and it's just been really exciting to hear the feedback from everybody who attends it all the people that attend it and just how this showcase is actually serving the students that are graduating in a way of the industry saying I've got to know who they were individually has been really exciting.

And so we still our showcase still has the same formula and that's what me and Amy Radix do showcase together. We were together at school and then Rachel Hoffman from Telsey and Caitlin co-produce the New York version so they get everything going up in New York for us. But it's been really exciting for Amy and I. We kind of went back through all the old videos and we were like, wow, this actually is a very special showcase that we do and there is a reason it's so popular. It does offer the industry like a really great look at who are these people as humans on top of what can they do talent-wise.

[20:27] Charlie Murphy: Yep. And what do you feel like in terms of is it the vast majority? Is it basically all? What percentage of your MTS end up New York focus versus ending up in Atlanta or LA or staying in Texas for a bit? Like when they graduate, are most of them going, I'm hitting the ground running in New York City, and that's where I'm gonna be, right?

[20:45] Tom Delbello: I would say we're in the 90% and higher range of people who actually do go to New York. And it's something, you know, that we were really honest about is like you don't have to move to New York the day after showcase. It's a great time, you know, you know what the summer is like in New York City. There's not a ton of auditions going on, but you know, there are people who want to move there immediately and try different neighborhoods to see where they might want to live, you know. And so I would say that we're in like the high 90s percent wise of people who are going to New York, although I'm sure you're starting to see if you look at our social media, we have a lot of people who are booking television and film work right now. So they're kind of going all over the place.

[21:24] Charlie Murphy: Yep, totally makes sense. And this is I imagine not particularly new for since the last episode, but we talked about the amazing cost of Texas State in that first episode and one of the big selling points. Can we give a little refresher for those about this is maybe the most enviable part of Texas State? Not only free alumni classes, but I think a nearly free tuition. You want to talk to that?

[21:43] Tom Delbello: Yes. So this is something that Caitlin and Cassie worked on really, really hard and they wanted to make sure we had it in place before they left and it's our last dollar scholarship. And anybody who's coming into the musical theater program as a freshman, after all of the scholarships you receive after you apply for all your scholarships and such, whatever money is left over, our last dollar scholarship will complete the rest of that tuition fee so that it is a tuition-free experience for your musical theater courses. So if you're taking a minor or a major, obviously those wouldn't be covered, but anything that has to do with your musical theater program is covered.

[22:20] Charlie Murphy: Amazing tuition-free experience. I mean, it is one of the reasons when I do initial consultation, I basically always force it onto people's list. I won't say force it, but even when people say like, hey, I'm looking mostly at Northeast schools, I go, but have you heard of this option? It is free. Your parents might care about the free part of it.

[22:36] Tom Delbello: Oh my gosh, and you know, even our students when they get here, they're like, you know, I actually would have paid to go for sure. Of course. I mean, you were not, I mean, I do think it's this, I get a hole on the rant. We're talking about like wine or whatever where people talk about like, oh, if it's a hundred dollars, it must be better. I'm like, this is not the case that this education is worth the cost or it's worth much more than the cost of it. Let's not conflate the paying a lot of money means you're getting a better education here.

[22:58] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, though some people wine snobs will tell me I'm wrong. They'll be like, no, no, the $200 wine is different than the $40. I'm like, no, it's not. Well, who knows? Who knows? Maybe you feel that way. But can we talk a little bit about the geography of it all in terms of, you know, this is something I think that has become much more common in terms of the students saying I don't think I want to go to school in Texas, right? I taught for a week at Texas State something for my friend Neil, a previous podcast guest. But you know, I often will tell the Northeast and the California kids, hey, San Marcos and Austin, these are not what you necessarily think of as Texas if you don't live in Texas, but I'd love to kind of hear what is your perspective? Are you hearing more of that from a political perspective or guess? What are you hearing in terms of people, the difficulty or how you get people if they're not from Texas to potentially go to school there, right?

[24:47] Tom Delbello: And the one thing that I always say is, you know, I'm somebody who's not from Texas and I'm actually, you know, I'm from Canada, about as north as you can get truly. And you know, that was one of the things for me too before coming down here. I was like, oh gosh, you know, we have all these ideas about what Texas is gonna be and I got down here and we literally live between Austin and San Antonio. San Marcos is like, and it's all along 35 highway and it's basically a city that doesn't stop between the two cities, right? And so you are in this cultural hub of arts and like the liberal arts and there's festivals, there's concerts, there's sporting events if you want to go to that. Like it's just, for me, I had to question myself this year.

I was like, how do I feel living here now? Because I'm slightly, you know, we're in this kind of bubble where we are of Austin, San Antonio and San Marcos all feeling very like it's very safe here, you know? And it feels like so much support from the community around us at large, you know? And like a lot of our students do go to Austin on the weekends or down to San Antonio to see, but that is even I and other faculty will work in Austin and San Antonio because there's a lot of people who live in San Antonio. Other faculty will work in Austin and San Antonio because they're so close, but because the community is so open.

[25:07] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, totally. I mean, yeah, my experience was it felt like Brooklyn in the south or whatever. There definitely was a lot of like vegan food and things. It's like this is not what you think of Cowboys or whatever, like whatever your picture of Texas is. But from a political perspective, I mean, you know, we do have parents say stuff like, you know, my child is LGBTQ. I don't know, just can't, don't necessarily see them going to school in Florida or Texas or any place where we feel like the laws are a certain way or often will now hear it with my daughter might need an abortion and how that how would that work? Like is that the kind of thing where from your work with students, have you seen any of those frustrations or in their struggles from a sort of political perspective?

[25:42] Tom Delbello: Honestly, we haven't. And that is again like because, you know, I'm a member of the LGBTQ community and I had to question myself. I'm like, okay, I'm getting asked this question and I actually feel safe and I haven't like directly been impacted by anything like that. We had this moment last year and it kind of made like big social media news. These two guys came on campus with those like hateful signs and the thing that happened was they were doing this tour kind of around all the universities down the 35 and it was just on our campus. Of course, it picked up social media because within two minutes of them being here, they were surrounded by students and faculty who were literally removing them from campus and that's why that ended up on social media at our school and not all the other schools they hit was because it's not tolerated on this campus and it's written.

You'll see it on the web page like we have our own university UPD, our own police department and is the hate is absolutely not tolerated on this campus and they were gone within minutes, yeah minutes and that is the kind of safety you feel here.

[26:51] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I love it. Well, and my last question before we throw to your break a little bit is, you know.

[26:55] Tom Delbello: With Caitlin's departure, have you felt any, you know, as people are signing on the dotted line and you have, you know, of course, a lot of these families have multiple options where the students go? I have all these great options. Have you felt any difficulty with people being like, you know, how the reputation of the program being wrapped up with Caitlin, where they're feeling a little bit of like, oh, is it going to be, is it going to maintain the same quality? Is it going to like, do you feel like our family is worried of going, what will this mean now in this new era compared to when it was with her? Yeah. And being honest, you know, when the news first came out, when Caitlin first told us, I was like, oh, what is this going to be?

But because of the way she left and like made sure the faculty was in place that could carry on what this program is, I actually haven't felt that at all. Our application numbers are the same and growing. And really it is because of the foundation that she laid and the very careful curating of faculty that happened to make sure that everybody is at the top of their game. And everybody is understanding what is happening right now in the industry, what has happened in the industry. We're all very aware. We also meet as a faculty every single month, musical theater faculty, and we talk, we work as a faculty. Our mission statement that's on the webpage was built together as a faculty. We are very united.

And I know our students feel that as well, because we're such a community-based program. So that was one of the beautiful things that Caitlin kind of left behind. And Cassie was this idea of like, this is a community and they welcomed us into it. And when I tell you Bobcat pride is a thing, we are very proud to be Bobcats and we are very proud to carry on the legacy of this program and to continue to grow it and evolve with it.

[28:46] Charlie Murphy: Well, I'm getting a little taste of the, we just had you at our summer masterclass week. And so many of our students were like, oh my God, I left Texas State. And I was just wowed. I'm adding that school to my list. I'm getting a little taste of it. You're giving me the spiel that's working on the students. I like it. Okay. Let's take a quick little break. We mentioned some numbers, some auditions. We're going to talk a little bit about the audition and admission process in a second.

[29:03] Charlie Murphy: All right. We are back with Tom Delbello and we're going to talk about the admission, the audition process. I'd love to just do a quick little overview and get us into 2025 about like the different places you can currently audition for Texas State. You know, when we first talked, it wouldn't have been a Pittsburgh Unifieds, wouldn't have been an option, but places like, you know, so on-campus options online at different Unifieds or different regional opportunities. What does it look like in terms of those opportunities throughout this year?

[29:29] Tom Delbello: Yeah. So we will be at Pittsburgh this year to do an in-person pre-screen. We'll be at Unifieds this year. What is it? November 20th, 23rd. I'm not going to say that's a rival company. I'm going to tell you the dates for Unifieds. No, I'm kidding. I'm good. But wait, I have some exciting news. And we're doing a virtual, we'll do two virtuals this year in the spring semester, January 17th and February 14th. We will have two on-campus auditions, January 24th and February 21st. It's all in my brain. We'll be at Unifieds February 1st, obviously to the 4th, and we will be doing a day with MTCA now in LA. Heck yes. Talk about a talk. Talk about it. We are so actually, this just came to fruition in the last few days.

I was talking about it with Leo in the summer and the fact that we are able to make this happen. We are thrilled to get out west and just give more opportunity to people. It's hard. I know this is a hard thing to schedule. I know there's a lot that goes into this and it's hard to spend the money to travel. And so we are really on a mission to make this as accessible as possible to people.

[30:36] Charlie Murphy: Heck yes. Certainly the free tuition doesn't hurt in terms of making these things accessible. I'd love to talk a little bit. So let's imagine, you can please tell me if this is not true, but let's imagine that most on-campus and Unifieds-like experiences will be very similar auditions, whether it's with MTCA, whether it's at Unifieds, whether it's on campus later in the year. How does it differ? You mentioned the live pre-screen. What are you looking at from a PUA experience or a Unifieds when you're seeing them a little bit earlier in the year? How does that affect or make the audition at all different if it does?

[31:11] Tom Delbello: You know, it honestly, it doesn't. And we've made a real effort to make sure that it doesn't because I know that is the feeling and I got that feedback from people. Because, you know, I'm very fortunate. I get to work with you all at MTCA and I get, we do our summer camp at Texas State, but we do get a lot of feedback from people where they're like, we're worried about doing something earlier in the fall that I'll somehow slip off the list. You know what I mean? Or I'll be moved out of consideration just because you saw me earlier. And it's just simply, it's not the case, which is one of the reasons that we meet every month as a faculty because we talk about the people that we're looking at. And you know what I mean? Obviously, recruiting is such a big process and it's a lot that goes into the puzzle of making a class, but we absolutely keep these people in mind.

[32:02] Charlie Murphy: And how does that work in terms of like how you recommend people to keep in touch? Like, that's a part of it. I mean, of course, the audition experience may be relatively similar, but you know, if I meet someone in October and November, and if often it seems like a lot of the final answers may be coming a little bit later, how does that work in terms of, you know, do you want an email twice a month? Do you want an email? Do you want a text if you're giving numbers out? Like what is the way that you sort of recommend like keeping in people's, keeping on your radar if the faculty are discussing all of you?

[32:28] Tom Delbello: Right. So if somebody, you mean like somebody who has auditioned, like just to remember me kind of thing. If you met me in November, exactly. And I haven't heard yet, or maybe I was told I'm waitlisted, or I'm told I'm in the pool of consideration, or you know, whatever that is. How do you like to be kept in touch with, and how much do you recommend that?

[32:44] Tom Delbello: Honestly, when we get those emails, it means a lot. And to me, it's like, it shows me, you know, I'm like, oh, you are really interested. You do the experience that we had in the room together, or on our zoom together, we found something like you felt a connection, we felt a connection into like, get that email. There's a lot of times and they write so specifically about what it was in that audition that meant something to them. And to me, I'm always like, wow, because we're the same way, right? We go through those essays with a highlighter, like, and we want to talk to you about what's in your essays, we want to invest in you, which is why we like, reserve the amount of time we do for each callback, because we want that moment to just talk to you. And like, I'm happy to talk about to like things that like really do help make those successful those callbacks and such.

[33:39] Charlie Murphy: Oh, I want to let's get into that. But before we do callback, can you tell me a little bit about the prescreen process? If you're comfortable talking about numbers, you mentioned the numbers that didn't dip, like, do you have a sense of how many ultimately prescreens you will get? And what that will lead to in terms of a number of auditions that, you know, we can then do the math to figure out what that percentage is. But how many people are you seeing? And then how many people are ultimately getting a callback?

[33:57] Tom Delbello: You know, we try and call back as many people as we can, based on so like all of those things that I listed for you. It's like we try and fit as many people in as we can in those. Yeah, we even extended unified has been extended by a half day from where it used to be, just as we are trying to call back more people, because like, again, we just want to give that opportunity to some people who like maybe couldn't have made it, you know, just in terms of like application numbers, we get a lot is what I'm gonna say.

[34:27] Charlie Murphy: Okay, we're gonna try to percentage from a lot to as many as we can. So that percentage, I'm gonna guess is 25%. No, I'm gonna want a lot to as many as we can. That's fine. You're allowed to be as cagey as you want, Tom. That's your interview. But let's talk about that. Well, maybe let's talk about what because I want to talk about what makes a callback successful. But let's talk about what you're looking for in a prescreen. What ultimately leads to a yes or a no from the video, you know, probably a little bit even more difficult process leading to the ultimate yes in the callback. But just when you're looking at those videos, what are you sniffing for that says, hey, this person is worth seeing more or I don't think this person's ready for Texas State?

[35:00] Tom Delbello: Absolutely. What something that like really sets you up for success is to not overly formalize your slate, especially it's that is that opportunity. And this is something that I love about doing MTCA in the summer, because I know you all talk about this with them. And I see it in the room. And it's so successful when you take that pressure off of this whole process, and you make it more about like, let's build a relationship. And you can even do that in a prescreen of just being like, hey, here's who I am. Yep. Right. I don't stand to be rigid and be a robot and say, you know, it's like, hey, my name is so and so. And it's just like, show us who you are, you know, like, be yourself in those.

And in your material as well. It's really clear if you're disconnected from the material, like you haven't found that way in for yourself. And it's like, really, like, do that work and be like, what makes this personal for me? Right? What is that thing that I love about the song? Or what how is this song really, you know, showing you something about me? And it's, again, it's like not over formalizing everything, because it's that, it's that idea of like, I'm trying to be perfect. It's hard for us to see who you really are.

[36:08] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, it's, it's so well said. And, you know, something I've been teaching for years of like, hey, really show your personality in your slate. And like, there's a chance for you to introduce yourself. And then I, you know, since I all these self tapes, I've been helping my wife with the self tapes, I could not believe the level to which she does that, like even way more than I would do. We're like, I would have tried to be like personable, but I would have been like, Hi, I'm Charlie, and I'm from New York, where she's much more likely to be like, I'm Elizabeth, this is my plant. And this is my wife, like, she'll like, she'll get real weird and creative. Like, that's, it's smart. I'm like, you know, you can get as creative as you want. Not that everyone needs to be bringing their plant into their free screen. Don't all steal that.

[36:41] Tom Delbello: Yeah. Yeah. Like, please don't steal that. That is our thing. It's our Seymour. Don't take it.

[36:46] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, no, but okay, let's what about then in the actual, let's say, let's imagine now an in person callback experience. First, like, what are we going to get from adjustments, interview questions, that kind of what are you going to do with me? And then what are you looking for? That might say, you know, Sam connected my material, let's say I had that great slate, and we started to make connection. But now we're moving toward, we know that number is 12 to 14. That's actually going to be one of the class, how do I get into that 12 or 14 pile?

[37:07] Tom Delbello: Right. And so like, a big part of that is going to be please be intentional with your essay, like put that thought into it. And don't try to over formalize that. Like that really is the opportunity for you to talk about who you are. What are your other interests besides musical theater? A lot of people talk about that. And we're like, yes, you have other things you do for life experience. That's really exciting. When you walk into that room, again, it's like we're looking for those people who are like able to walk in and not just like breeze past us all at the table and walk to the piano and just ignore that we exist and tell you slate, right? It's like, if we're all looking at you and just say hi. Like start that relationship as soon as you can. And to me, that's even like that's a tool you use beyond college, right? It's like, let me start to like build this relationship as soon as possible when I walk in the room.

[38:09] Charlie Murphy: And so true. And I know this is something you all teach as well is really you're interviewing us just as much as we are interviewing you. But an interview is a conversation. So we're just asking where we just want to have a conversation with you. And in that conversation, you're going to do some material for us as well. And it's usually going to be two songs in a monologue. A lot of times we end up looking at three songs because we're like two musical theater and a pop. But we always want to hear that pop song as well, because it's so interesting how those songs really reveal a lot of who you are and like the kind of music you listen to or you're interested in or your take on that kind of music.

It's so funny how often we'll see more of a sense of taste in the pop song, even though you're like you could do that musical theater. You don't have to sing like musical theater you hate just because it says classical or whatever, like find something you like. But sometimes people feel more freedom to go. I'm really going to riff and show you something special about myself in the pop song.

[39:05] Tom Delbello: Absolutely. And then, you know, the kind of feedback that we would give would be to like, it's an investigation now of like, OK, great. I mean, you've been called back. You're here. We love you. I mean, like we are so interested and we are so curious. And so we're going to just be like, hey, what's what's happening? You'll get like our one of our voice teachers will probably do a little bit of work. You'll get some acting. We'll just see what's going on. And a lot of it is to be like, how do we communicate together? And is the vocal work likely going to be like, hey, this is something that you particularly are missing that I'm hearing that you're not doing? Or is it like, hey, I'm going to throw you a test? Like what kind of stuff are we going to get when I'm being vocalized or if I'm getting a one voice test? Are you giving a little bit of a lesson? Like what does that feel like from a vocal perspective?

[39:49] Tom Delbello: It can be it can be many things, but a lot of time it's just what more information could I get? So if we've done all your songs and we're like, oh, I wonder if there's potential for this, right? Or this other thing, because we heard you maybe flip up into a head voice all of a sudden and get scared. So it's just like, oh, hey, in this moment, let's try doing this. And we'll just see, like, how do you respond to the material? And again, this is all to be like, our is this is our language is our vocab. Like do

[41:24] Tom Delbello: And I'm going to be talking about the bare minimum GPA, which I need to like check the website to make sure they didn't up it. I don't believe they did. I think it's still sitting the same.

[41:33] But it is, you know, it's obviously like go on there and see. There's so many factors, you know, things that like I was made aware of is just like what you're putting in your application just in terms of like, where do you place in your class, all those things go into how you place at the university, right?

[41:51] And sometimes, you know, obviously, and that's when we do investigate and we do call the references and we get more information as to if somebody is below the GPA and we're like, well, this but this would be somebody that we could go to the office of admissions and be like, hey, this is a real like there's so much potential here. And this is somebody who it's so clear that they actually do work hard. And we did look up the references. And here's some circumstances in their life that happened that here's the reason why it went down that road. Right. And we have resources at the university, which is something that we like tell our freshman first day is like, there are resources at the university to help people.

[42:09] You know what I mean? Especially if something's going on in your life. It's like, yes, there is an office for you to go and talk to a counselor. There are things, you know, to help you stay on track academically. Well, and if you don't mind expanding on that, I mean, we kind of yada yada the wellness part of it because I know Caitlin to talk about it. But again, if this if they're not going back and listen to the episode, what does Texas State offer in terms of those resources? And you mentioned some of the sort of wellness based approach from the musical theater perspective. What does that mean? And what does that look like in terms of what I'm getting as a musical theater student?

[42:56] Right. So our university has a full counseling service that's available to them. And it's already covered in your fees. Right. For tuition that is paid for. But it's all covered for you. And there's we even have like there's an online service for it now. There are there's many things like that you can do if there are like special needs you have for class accommodations. There's an office of accommodations. Right. And we give you all that information in advance.

[43:24] And then, I mean, we obviously have built into our program. We also do our own mental wellness stuff where we're talking about the science of the brain and why you're feeling nerves in this moment. And here's some breathing exercises to alleviate some of those nerves. Or if I'm feeling imposter syndrome, let's talk about what that is and what the science of that is. So you understand it's like there are exercises, there are tools that I can have to help me through these moments. And so that's built into our musical theater curriculum like holistically.

[43:51] But these other services, you know, and this has become something that's I think apparent to every university and acting classes that there are some things that we've we've become very knowledgeable that acting teachers are not psychologists. Right. And we're not therapists. And it's so that is, you know, like when it is like, hey, if we something's going on, let's go to the office of counseling and, you know, we'll set you up. We're like, it's never a high pressure situation like that.

[44:19] We're happy to help you. And that's where the resources are there. Yeah. And I think you're right. I think Texas State among a couple of universities, but really has been a leader that has that has now infused a lot of different programs. You hear more and more about that in a way that 15 years ago, it just was not commonly spoken about. And now it's like often people will say, oh, that's something we we think about. This isn't therapy. And the way that we are approaching our curriculum, I think, is really shifted for a lot of people.

[44:43] I love to talk a little bit about, you know, as you're looking, especially a class of 12 to 14, a very small class. What are you thinking about as you're filling out a class? I mean, are you conscious of stuff like, you know, gender balance and height balance and size balance, racial diversity, geographical balance? How do those things factor in, especially as you, you know, you make those initial offers, but then there could be weightless movement. How are you thinking about what is the what is the 12 to 14 people I'm putting together and and what's important to me in those 12 to 14 people?

[45:11] Yeah, you know, and I think I've said this word like so many times, you're probably sick of it. But like, really, we're looking for curious artists. And a lot of time, like you said, like four times, it's not that much. Really, I'm not sick of it. Yeah, you could say three or four more times, and I'd be fine with it.

[45:26] And, you know, it's like, we're looking for like, community based people, like, we're, we're looking for people like who having integrity and are interested in wellness, you know, and what starts to make up the class is like, we start to balance it out, right? We're like, okay, here's our current, obviously, we look at like, who do we currently currently have? And like, is it way off balance in one area, you know, and it's just like, okay, great. So let's, because the second you get too off balance, it starts to affect kind of everything in the domino effect.

[45:56] On its way down, especially like you start looking at production shows and getting opportunity to work with people in class on scenes. And you know, it's just like, you want to make sure that you can give everybody as much experience as possible, which is why when you look at our classes, they are, it's like a wide range of human beings, because we're interested in like, what kind of viewpoint is this human going to bring into our program.

[46:17] And it's exciting when somebody comes in, and we're like, we don't have anybody who has this kind of viewpoint right now. And how exciting to bring that into our community so that we all learn together. Right. And so like, it always comes back to like, the good of like, what is going to serve this big community that we are. And, you know, we stand on the shoulders of our alumni, we truly do. And like, we, we see that they are also this big community of people who care about each other, and are willing to like, reach down and talk to each other.

[46:47] Right.

[47:17] If anything, in terms of the experience of an online edition than what you get in person.

[47:48] You know what I mean? It's like, we don't want if something's not going right in your audition, we will be like, hey, let's just pause and make sure that you're set up for success here. Right. You know, I know, it can be easy to just be like, Oh, let this one go. It's fine. But we will not do that. Like, we want to make sure that you have been given like, the time that you deserve. And because we are so interested in you already, we're going to invest that time like we are, we are set up for success.

[48:16] Yep. And I imagine, you know, that you get a wide swath of auditionees across the board, but especially as a school that is more that is free for musical theater, that you're gonna, there'll be some people where that access is really even more important to go, I really can't, I can't afford even the one flight to a Unifieds or the, they go, I want to do musical theater, but I'm not in a place to spend, I mean, even just doing one Unifieds, you're talking about over $1,000 realistically, if you're flying and staying, I mean, it's a lot of money.

[48:41] Yeah, we, you know, we still run our virtuals, like we do our on campus, where we do a big program overview with everyone. And then everybody will move to the waiting room for their auditions, but we keep all the parents so that we can have a meeting with the parents, right? It's the same thing we do on campus. And it's like, even in Chicago, when we're done the program overview, I'm happy to talk to the parents and like, ask me questions, you know what I mean? Because I know you have a lot of questions as well, because you're about to, you know, or a family member, whoever it is, you're about this person's about to leave for four years.

[49:11] Right? It's like, suddenly, they're not right beside you, so you can feel safe that they're right there. And it's, we're happy to talk and answer questions.

[49:42] Yeah, and I will say, Deontay Warren, who joined our faculty last year, is also uses they them pronouns. And it's amazing when you allow people to just be who they are, what they feel like they are. And that's, you know, that's the beauty of it.

[50:05] It's amazing when you allow people to just be who they are, what they feel on the inside, you know what I mean? And it doesn't always have to be an outside appearance is telling you exactly who somebody is.

[50:20] You know, and obviously, you're all the clips from our guys and dolls will start to appear very shortly. The trailer, I think, is coming out in a couple of days of what we did in the spring. And you know, my research is LGBTQ specific, a lot of times, and I'm looking at gender in that way. And we were, we had a class with five non binary seniors this past year. And so we wanted to make sure we did a show that where we could allow them to also explore this. And what is this?

[50:47] How does it impact the show? How does it impact an audience? How does it? How could it? How can we help the industry see what's possible, right?

[50:54] And it's mentioning, we haven't seen those clips yet. What did what did you do with guys?

[50:58] So Adelaide and Nathan were both non binary characters. For me, the hotbox club. Why did it? Why can't it just be embodied by all types of people? You know, and so like, that was like a really exciting thing to do. And for me, the question was, is an audience going to still have that fun and exciting, joyful experience from guys and dolls? Or are they going to be stuck asking questions the whole time?

[51:19] Where are the guys? Where are the dolls?

[51:20] Well, where are the guys and dolls? And like, it was amazing to have mid show standing ovations, and people screaming and cheering, and getting so into the world, because it at the end of the day, while the show might be called that it, it just you're playing a character. Right at the end of the day. And so I'm excited for like, people to kind of see what we did there. And to just kind of see it's like, oh, and this kind of stuff is possible.

[51:46] And so for me, I also feel a really strong community around me where we are. I, you know, I have a production company as well. And we do a thing called Queer to Tell, which has a monthly series in New York. And we do, and it's expanding nationally, but we do shows in Austin about four times a year. And it's for everybody in the community. And it's for every generation in the community. And that's what I'm interested in is like, the intersexuality of like, how can we bring everybody together?

[52:16] You know, that's what theater does anyway. And that's what the world of theater does. You're like, oh, we're looking at people having relationships on stage. And like, how do they talk to each other?

[52:26] It's so interesting, especially when you talk about like classical musical theater is like, how you bring some of these shows into the modern world. And then sometimes, sometimes it works, and then it doesn't work of going like, do we just need a new show? This one doesn't. But sometimes it works beautifully. We go, I see this in a totally different way. It's very interesting. I'm always having that conversation when I'm seeing older musicals where I'm like, did this work successfully? Or did we super tire the show?

[52:49] And that is like, it's happening so much right now, right? Where people are asking that question of like, how the heck do we still do this? Because especially when you're working at a university, right? We have like younger students who are like, hey, I'm not just going to say okay, and yes to doing this.

[53:02] Right. How do you do a carousel? How do you do? Yeah.

[53:04] How do you do? And they're going to ask you, if you're going to be like, hey, so we're thinking about this show for next year, they're going to be like, why?

[53:11] Yeah.

[53:12] And like, how are we going to do that show with this? And like, they know what's in there.

[53:16] Right. This hair might have meant this in the 60s, but now it means this in 2025. And what is that? It's complicated conversation.

[53:23] Okay, that could be another hour of the podcast. And we got to let you go. So the last question I ask you is just advice to the parents. You mentioned parents asking questions for you, you sitting down with them.

[53:31] You know, a lot of our listeners are parents who are some of them now juniors at the beginning of the process. Some of their seniors are really about to dive into this as we record this.

[53:38] You know, what advice do you have to parents in terms of how they can best support their children through this process?

[53:43] Yeah, you know, and I would actually just start this as you know, like anybody who is working with a student or has a student that's applying through this process.

[53:51] Charlie Murphy: Welcome back to Mapping The College Audition. Today, we have a special guest, Tom Delbello, the Co-head of Musical Theatre and Head of Production and New Works at Texas State University. Tom, thank you for joining us.

[54:21] Tom Delbello: Thank you for having me, Charlie. I'm excited to be here and talk about Texas State and the unique aspects of our program.

[54:51] Charlie Murphy: Let's dive right in. One of the things that stands out about Texas State is the shared leadership model you have in place. Can you explain how that works and the benefits it brings to the program?

[55:21] Tom Delbello: Absolutely. The shared leadership model allows for a balance of ideas and collaboration among faculty. It creates an environment where everyone feels valued and heard, which ultimately benefits the students. We believe that when faculty members work together, it enhances the educational experience for our students.

[55:51] Charlie Murphy: That sounds fantastic. Collaboration is key in any creative field. Now, Texas State is located in a unique political climate. How does that influence the program and the students?

[56:21] Tom Delbello: The political climate in Texas can be quite dynamic, and it certainly influences our program. We encourage our students to engage with the community and be aware of the social issues around them. This awareness helps them grow as artists and individuals, and it also informs their work in a meaningful way.

[56:51] Charlie Murphy: That's a great perspective. Now, let's talk about affordability. Texas State is known for its affordable tuition. How does that play into attracting students to your program?

[57:21] Tom Delbello: Affordability is a significant factor for many students and their families. We strive to provide a high-quality education at a reasonable cost, which makes our program accessible to a broader range of students. Additionally, we have a hub for auditions, which means students can audition for multiple programs in one location, making it a great value.

[57:51] Charlie Murphy: That's a smart approach. Now, after an early audition, how important is it for students to stay in touch with the program?

[58:21] Tom Delbello: Staying in touch is crucial. It helps build relationships and keeps the lines of communication open. We encourage students to reach out, ask questions, and express their continued interest in our program. This ongoing connection can make a significant difference in the audition process.

[58:51] Charlie Murphy: Great advice! Building those relationships can really set students apart. As we wrap up, what final thoughts do you have for students considering Texas State?

[59:21] Tom Delbello: I would say to be authentic and true to yourself. Our program values individuality, and we want to see who you are as an artist. Don't be afraid to showcase your unique talents and perspectives during the audition process.

[59:51] Charlie Murphy: Thank you, Tom. It's been a pleasure having you on the podcast today. Your insights into Texas State and the audition process are invaluable.

[1:00:21] Tom Delbello: Thank you, Charlie. I appreciate the opportunity to share about our program.

[1:00:51] Charlie Murphy: And to our listeners, if you have any questions about the college audition process, feel free to reach out to us at mailbag@mappingthecollegeaudition.com. Don't forget to check out MTCA for personalized preparation for your college audition journey. Until next time!