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[0:00] Michelle Simone Miller: Hi, welcome to a brand new episode of Mentors on the Mic podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Simone Miller, and I'm so excited to share with you this incredible episode with wonderful director Georgia Oakley. Georgia Oakley is responsible for directing the beautiful new retelling of Sense and Sensibility. I'm so excited for you guys to see this film. It is absolutely beautiful. Before we get started into that and a little bit about Georgia Oakley, please follow on any podcast platform you're listening to, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, get to hear more from the mentors in the entertainment industry. The season is jam-packed with lots of incredible interviews with people on the red carpets for the Hampton Film Festival, maybe Woodstock Film Festival.

We just covered the Innovation Festival and the Atlantic Festival. So you're going to get festivals, red carpets, and incredible mentors like director Georgia Oakley. If you haven't yet also, I just recently started a sub stack where you get a little bit more behind the scenes on red carpets, on interviews that I had, you know, thoughts that maybe I wouldn't be able to, I wasn't able to put in the episode. And yeah, behind the scene things that I normally don't get to share unless it's on socials or to my friends. So now it's on sub stack. So please read it's in the link in the show notes. All right, so Sense and Sensibility is a gorgeous retelling. I was very lucky and fortunate to be able to watch an advanced screening, which was really nice.

A lot of the movie for me when I was watching it really screamed like this is beautifully shot. Like I felt like there were moments where just the frame looked like it could be its own picture. And I personally love when visual storytelling is at that peak, where you are watching it going, this is so beautiful. I want to be in that world. And that actually reminded me a little of Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice. So that if you know, if you remember, that was the Keira Knightley version. And I felt like there was a little bit of that there was a little bit of the, oh my god, this beautiful world of like, Georgian England, I believe it's Georgian England is just stunning. And I want to be like in I want to like transport into that shot.

But there were a lot of that where there were just these standalone frames. And I like looked at the cinematographer, I was like, oh, gosh, who did this beautiful work alongside Georgia Oakley. So you have a little bit of that, which is amazing. The cast is just stellar. So we have Daisy Edgar Jones, who if you you know, she's been so many things where the crowd ads saying normal people, both of which are amazing. She's just a phenomenal actress and watching her on screen. You just understand, you know, like there's some people you watch and you're like, oh, I understand that person's a star. Like that person just like doesn't have to do much. And just like exudes just emotion and intensity.

And she just stands out. She's just one of those people. And so watching her felt a little bit like of what I was saying before, I've just like the frame is so gorgeous. She is like that, like she would just be like, looking towards the camera and like staring off and just have this thought in her head. And you're like, Oh, God, she's beautiful. And she's so good. And she's exuding so much. So as even as an actor, I was like, gorgeous. And then you know, the the cast is rounded out by Fiona Shaw, who's fantastic character actress, Catriona Balfe. I don't really know how to say her name. She's amazing. And she I mean, she's in a lot of things like Outlander. I just saw her at the Hampton Film Festival in Tenzing, which is a lovely movie with Tom Hiddleston, highly recommend that one as well.

She's just a beautiful powerhouse actress. And she just really provided like she was the mom in the film, which I remember having to think to myself, like, is she old enough to be everyone's mom? And then I remembered, in that time in England, you got pregnant like at a very, very, very young age. But she just has this understated emotional quality to her that feels very natural and grounded. And just like, she is fully invested in her family. She is just, you know, just a powerhouse. She's just like, I can't wait. I feel like I'm going to see more and more of her and I'm so happy about that. There's Esme Creed Miles, who's beautiful George McKay, all the cast is just a beautiful cast. And they tell this wonderful story made me want to reread Sense and Sensibility, which I haven't read in many, many years.

Big Jane Austen fan. And this was a beautiful updated modern retelling. And I highly recommend watching it. I've already told people about it. This comes out on the 16th, I believe, which is a Friday. So you know, definitely, definitely check it out. little summary, very quickly about Jane Austen's 1811 debut novel, which this is, this is based on Sense and Sensibility, which follows the Dashwood sisters, Eleanor and Marianne. And in the in the film and in the book, they face sudden poverty and they have to navigate really like the social standing in Georgian England, but also like the love component and the romantic relationships that come with, you know, do you get married for these reasons?

Are you allowed to get married if you're not if you don't have the same social standing anymore? And Eleanor represents sense, right? Like, pragmatism. There we go. She's very pragmatic. And then there's sensibility, which Marianne represents, which is passionate, impulsive, very expressive. And then so as sisters, which is what really I focused on, how do you how do those things counteract? Like, what do we how do we get a little bit more of maybe the other? And and maybe it's not bad to have one or the other and you're allowed to have conflicting personalities and still come together. So it was really nice to talk to Georgia Oakley. And we did like a couple different things, not only learning about her and how she started.

She's done a lot of short films as well. So I love when directors have a lot of experience with short films. She had her feature film debut with Blue Jean in 2022. And so we talked a little bit about her beginnings, how she focused on this film and how she put it together with her team. And then we also did this like fun little game at the end where she finished a sentence that I came up with. So I highly recommend the film. Thank you, Georgia Oakley for coming on. Without further ado, here's Georgia Oakley.

[6:47] Georgia Oakley: Hi, Georgia, how are you?

[6:50] Georgia Oakley: Hey, I'm really good. Thank you. How are you doing?

[6:52] Michelle Simone Miller: I'm doing really well. My podcast is called Mentors on the Mic, and I interview different people in the industry and specifically focus on how they started, how they moved up to where they are today. So it's really a mentorship platform, a roadmap, if you will. Obviously, everyone's career is different, but there's so much that can be learned from how you started and then how you made this project. So I always start off with the question, what was your first role in the entertainment industry?

[7:18] Georgia Oakley: Oh, my first role was I was kind of like an extra, but I was like a supporting, an essay, I guess, but I was on set for two weeks. So it was quite, it was more than like a day. I was on set for two weeks on actually a working title film when I was 17. And it was completely out of nowhere, because I had no aspirations to work in the film industry or to act or I did a bit of acting at school. And because of that, I met this casting director at my school who had come to look for the main parts in Atonement. That was the film.

[8:09] Michelle Simone Miller: Oh, lovely.

[8:11] Georgia Oakley: Yeah. So, so yeah, but I fell into it. I wasn't, you know, lots of my friends had gone to this audition and been really excited about it. And I remember I was in the gym at the time and a friend came in and she was like, I really think you should go and audition. I was like, nah, I don't think so. And she was like, I think they're looking for people that look like you or something. Okay, I was like, do I have to do anything? She was like, no, just stand in a line. So I went and stood in a lineup. It was not, you know, but in the end, I had to learn a script and go to London and do an audition. And in the end, I didn't get the part, but they said, would you like to come and be a nurse for a couple of weeks in the hospital that they built?

St. Thomas's, they like built St. Thomas's in Shepherds and Studios. And yeah, I sort of took it on as like a summer job. I wanted to go traveling and make some money. And it was not, at the time, I had no idea that that would then lead to an interest, more than an interest, a kind of fanatical obsession with wanting to make films.

[9:17] Michelle Simone Miller: I love that. I've done some extra work myself. I have an acting background as well. So the image of you being a nurse on Atonement of all sets, was there any moment there that you were like, yeah, I think I'd like to do more of this? Or I know that you have a history of creating shorts. Was there something there that you thought, yeah, I can do this myself? Or there's something I'd like to say?

[9:38] Georgia Oakley: I think I definitely remember wanting, I remember becoming kind of fascinated with the attention to detail. That was the thing that really, from my experience on Atonement, it was all about attention to detail. I had no idea, as I'm sure most young people who don't have aspirations to make films, we don't understand how much goes into everything. And as part of my role as a nurse, I had to attend some rehearsals prior to the shoot. And there were some war veterans that were brought in to talk to us about their experiences and other ex-nurses who had taught us how to make hospital corners on the beds and tie bandages. And in another, we'd all go in the same place for lunch, and I'd see Keira Knightley and James McAvoy, they'd be doing their rehearsals over there.

But they'd also be sat in these lectures, not lectures, but sat listening to these war vets talking about their experiences. And I think it was during that process where I was like, wow, there's so much going into this that I've never, ever thought of when I've watched a film before. And then obviously being on a set like that, where everything is built, but a lot of things are still going on.

[11:04] Georgia Oakley: I think the amazing thing about that experience was just knowing that everybody, no matter what your role, everybody is as important as the next person. Because everybody, a film relies on everybody doing their role to the best of their ability. And everything has a kind of domino effect. And I think that was what fascinated me with it. And also made me feel like, okay, I don't care which element of this I want to be involved. I don't know at this point what I want to do or how I want to be involved. But I will happily work in a costume department or I will happily... I didn't mind at that point. It was very early days.

[12:16] Michelle Simone Miller: Yeah, I think it sounds like there's almost this love for the collaborative process. Like the process of creating it is amazing. But it's almost like, I can imagine you going, I don't care. I just need to do something like this, is what I'm hearing. So then, you know, you'd be in your career, really making short films, and then directing your feature film, your feature debut, Blue Jean. Was there anything in those initial earlier experiences and the process of making your first feature that really taught you about directing that you specifically leaned on in directing Sense and Sensibility? Is there anything specific that comes to mind?

[12:53] Georgia Oakley: I think, actually, it goes back to even before I made my first short film. When I was at university, I did some theatre work. And I directed a couple of plays. And so for that process, it was so much smaller, in a way, more contained than making a film and less, not less collaborative, but there was a smaller team. There was kind of me and the actors, and the actors would come to my apartment every afternoon, and we would rehearse for a few hours. And I just, I think through doing that, I learned this kind of what it means to sort of have build this kind of temporary family that, you know, where there's a lot of trust needs to kind of, you know, there needs to be trust moving in lots of different directions.

And you have to engineer that quite quickly, in order for people to, you know, do their best work, I guess. And so that's probably the thing that springs to mind as the most kind of formative thing that I then lent on when making my debut feature and also this film, because, you know, the size of the crew can get a lot bigger, and the size of the cast as well. But ultimately, you still need to kind of drill into the same relationship dynamics and hope that people trust you to, you know, lead them in a way that feels, you know, sort of, that emboldens them to give everything to what they're doing.

[14:44] Georgia Oakley: And I think that's something I learned from doing theatre really early on. And then obviously shorts, but everything, you know, each project that I've done, there's more people and more scale and more shooting days, everything. But I think the feeling is always going back to that, what it felt like to be directing four actors in my living room, in a play that no one was really going to see.

[15:10] Michelle Simone Miller: Was there ever difficulty in saying goodbye? I mean, every time I feel like it, specifically in theatre, you know, you really, because there's more rehearsal, and there's a lot of time spent with sort of this family, do you ever feel like there's difficulty in separating yourself once it's over?

[15:28] Georgia Oakley: Definitely. When I did those plays as a young person, I felt this enormous loss, enormous loss, and probably the same for my first couple of short films. And then I think when I started making features, I know that I could sense that there was that feeling with some of the crew, and maybe some of the cast and everything. But honestly, my answer would be as a director, that by the time you get to like day 50, on this, it was, I think, 50 days. It was, it was just, I like stumbled over the finish line. It was a long endurance test.

[16:13] Michelle Simone Miller: It's arduous. Especially, yeah, filmmaking is an arduous task, because there's, it's almost, especially for someone like, for the director, I just feel like it's never ending. And just all hours, you're just like, okay, I'm doing it again tomorrow.

[16:29] Georgia Oakley: Yeah.

[16:30] Michelle Simone Miller: So let's get a little into the process of making Sense and Sensibility. Can you tell us, I mean, as many people who are listening know, I almost feel like, you know, there's pre-production, there's in-production, and then there's post. And the film changes so much sometimes in all those three stages. Can you talk a little bit about how that changed and what you saw from that initial screenplay and all the, you know, choices you made in terms of creating a team to actually filming it? And then, of course, the editing process?

[17:00] Georgia Oakley: Yeah, sure. So one thing I would say about Sense and Sensibility is that in some ways, it didn't change all too much, which is perhaps surprising. And I know, because the producers have pointed out that from the kind of initial ideas that I put forward, when I was pitching to them initially, that the film does kind of feel and look a lot like how I hoped that it would. And there weren't like enormous changes, although there were some, you know, we changed the ending. And I guess how I would describe it is maybe more of like a refocusing things that come up through the process. Like for me, with this film, I wanted the cottage initially was, it's written as being by the sea in the book and also in the screenplay.

And so I was looking for a long time for a cottage that was like looking out onto the sea in that area of the UK. And I couldn't find one because all the cottages that I came across were so modernized and rented out for holiday lets or whatever. So I couldn't find exactly what I wanted in the vibe of the kind of rugged windswept cottage on the coast that I wanted. So I ended up with this cottage that at the time didn't have a roof, didn't have windows. This wasn't, we had to do a lot of building of that on that cottage. But it was in the middle of Dartmoor, this amazing kind of National Park. And so I would say things like that, where you had a plan for something, and then it didn't work out, and then you found something else, and you fell in love with that.

And then through the course of making the film, Dartmoor, the landscape of the moors where that cottage is, became such a huge part of the visual language of the story and kind of so interconnected with the relationship between the sisters. And then the biggest change that I made through the process was to the ending. And lots of different changes were made throughout. And we did shoot this whole other ending. But in the end, I wanted to end the story in Dartmoor, at the cottage with the sisters. And the idea was always to end with the sisters, not with the kind of romance, the respective romances, it was to end on the sisters. But we had this other scene and another location. And I just, it was like the Dartmoor location kind of grew through the screenwriting. And then the shooting of the film, it kind of grew in importance. And then again, in the edit. So that's probably the main example of something that was more of a kind of refocusing.

[20:22] Michelle Simone Miller: That's wonderful. I mean, thinking, well, it's funny, because I've seen the film, it's absolutely beautiful. But you know, with this idea of movie magic, where yes, it might not be right along the coast, but the way you've edited it, it has to be very close to the water, right, for certain things to happen. I mean, there's an implication of bringing a character back to the house from the water, and they can't be that far. So, you know, movie magic lends it to, you know, okay, there's an implication, this is right, very, very close to the water in order for certain things to happen. But you don't need it to be in the shot that this is right along the coast. But yes, that's so interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

[21:02] Michelle Simone Miller: I wanted to ask a little bit about, you know, Jane Austen is an author that I love, has been adapted countless times. And each filmmaker obviously has to bring in their own interpretation to the work. Were there any previous adaptations of either Sense and Sensibility or even Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice that inspired your approach to this? Or did you want to distance yourself from all of that as well?

[21:28] Georgia Oakley: I mean, I had seen both the Ang Lee Sense and Sensibility and Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice and love both of those films, but I didn't revisit them in the lead up to making this. And I hadn't seen the Ang Lee film for probably 15 years or something. So I wouldn't say that there was, that those adaptations inspired me. It was more that I had to kind of, yeah, it wasn't like a purposeful distancing. But it was also just, I would say to the crew, like, remember that we are making a film, a standalone film. And that, you know, to

[22:09] Georgia Oakley: To some degree, we have to shake off the fact, more kind of, I would say we were in the shadow of this book more than other adaptations. And I wanted to, as much respect as I have for the novel, and I could talk about it all day. And there's so much in the book that isn't in the film. But at the same time, it felt like I had to forget about the fact that there would be this huge audience of people that love this book and had a relationship with the book and had certain expectations for an adaptation of it. All I could do was make a version of it that felt honest to me and my kind of sensibility as a filmmaker. And at no point was I wanting to say this is like the definitive version of Sense and Sensibility. And I don't think anyone should ever say that about any adaptation. These stories are for us to reinterpret. And this is just our version.

[23:23] Michelle Simone Miller: I agree with that wholeheartedly. I feel like I've talked to many people about book adaptations on my podcast before. And I think about them quite often because I'm an avid reader. And I think what people sometimes miss is that it is one version of it. If you're adapting a book, this is your version of what that adaptation is. And it doesn't have to be exact and nor should it because a book is beautiful, but the visual version of that has to be different and certain things have to be different. When you set out to make Sense and Sensibility, what did you want your version to say? You talked a little earlier about your pitch. What was your pitch? What did you want to sort of showcase the world? And was there some sort of pervasive image or idea that stuck with you the whole time that you wanted to make sure to go back to?

[24:14] Georgia Oakley: Yeah, I think it had a lot to do with centering the love story between the two sisters and talking about how it sort of seems things have changed a lot for young women in the 200 years since this book was written, but actually, they haven't changed nearly as much as we would like to think. And that was kind of my starting point was talking about the negotiation that young women still have to face between the lives we set them up to kind of expect, or the things that we set them up to expect from their lives, and then what the world is actually prepared to offer them. So that was kind of, in terms of story, my pitch was that this story doesn't really need to be modernized as such, because Jane Austen was writing about such inherently contemporary themes.

And she's writing about patriarchy, she's writing about the limitations of life as a young woman. And that is something that, you know, we don't need to shake it up or reinvent the wheel. It's there in the story, and it speaks to young women today, I would say. And then in terms of the visual element, I spoke a lot about leaning into that relationship with nature and time and having a kind of close, you know, being able to sort of touch the characters, reach through the screen and touch them and not feel like we were at arm's length from them. And having this kind of intimacy that sometimes I felt is missing from period films, where you kind of really feel a closeness as the audience to these characters and also their relationships with each other.

[26:19] Michelle Simone Miller: Oh, I love that. And I think the cinematography and the visual storytelling really stuck out to me. I mean, even just right, like that opening shot of her, you know, with Daisy Edgar-Jones with the, I don't even know what it's called. This is a terrible thing. But like in the middle of, you know, she's in the field, and she's playing around with nature, right away, I felt like I knew what I was going into. And there were a lot of sort of moments where I think you, I would almost say indulge, there was like an indulging of like, I'm going to indulge in this shot. And I'm just going to have, you know, the audience process something, you know, in this moment. And I enjoyed that. I enjoyed being able to take a second with my own thoughts and enjoy something but also go like, oh, this is so beautiful.

And what does this mean to the overall visual storytelling? So I personally, that's one of my favorite things walking out of the film. I wanted to play a little thing with you. It's nothing, it's not really a game. But I'm going to ask you to finish a sentence. So for instance, a great adaptation should always have what?

[27:22] Georgia Oakley: A point of view.

[27:29] Michelle Simone Miller: Love that. Love that answer. The most misunderstood thing about Jane Austen is?

[27:36] Georgia Oakley: Oh, that she was just writing about young women chasing after husbands.

[27:42] Michelle Simone Miller: Agreed wholeheartedly. I have a very specific memory of being in like an AP English class in high school and arguing that exact point when we read Persuasion. As a director, I wish I could?

[27:56] Georgia Oakley: As a director, I wish I could, I guess, get out of my own head sometimes. Yeah, get out of my own head. And yeah, I'd like to feel more free as a director sometimes.

[28:23] Michelle Simone Miller: The most romantic thing a character can do is?

[28:32] Georgia Oakley: The most romantic, well, I have to say what speaks to this film, which is the most romantic thing a character can do is run through a field to declare their love.

[28:38] Michelle Simone Miller: Yes. Yes. That is a wonderful moment. If you could direct any literary adaptation, it would be?

[28:45] Georgia Oakley: Or another one? Another one. I'd love to see, I think it's almost impossible, but I'd love to do a version of The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen.

[29:01] Michelle Simone Miller: Oh, I don't know that one. Excellent. You kind of touched on this earlier, but was there one thing that you learned making Sense and Sensibility that you would bring to future projects?

[29:08] Georgia Oakley: One thing that I learned, I would say, I mean, yeah, I would say the one thing that I learned, the main thing that I learned was about having an amazing team and not to put everything on my shoulders as the director and to, if you have a great team, you can kind of share that load. And I absolutely had that on this film. And it was such a joy to share the responsibility with a team of predominantly amazing women. And yeah, once you've had that, I think you can't go back.

[30:02] Michelle Simone Miller: So similar note, what's your favorite thing about working with these actors?

[30:07] Georgia Oakley: Favorite thing about working with these actors? I love that they were all so different and that they brought different ways of working. Some of them love to improvise, some of them love to rehearse everything over and over. They were all completely different. And that keeps everyone on their toes. You've got to adapt to them and their needs. And you know, the way Fiona Shaw works is nothing like the way Daisy works. And so negotiating that in a scene is, yes, it keeps you on your toes, but it was great.

[30:46] Michelle Simone Miller: Amazing. And then last one. If you could give advice, there's a lot of people listening to this who are aspiring actors or filmmakers, creatives. Is there any piece of advice you would recommend for people to either start something, write something for themselves, direct something for themselves, take it on themselves to create something? Is there any piece of advice you'd give them?

[31:00] Georgia Oakley: Yeah, I think the piece of advice I would give is to maybe stop thinking about what audiences want or what ideas of yours might appeal to other people and to just really tap into something that you care deeply about. Because if you care deeply about it, then it's likely that it will speak to people in a way that you don't necessarily expect. I'm a big believer in something being extremely specific and then becoming universal because of that, rather than focusing too much on what everybody else wants from you. Focus on what you want.

[32:04] Michelle Simone Miller: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Georgia. This has been an absolute pleasure and I appreciate your time and all your answers.

[32:10] Georgia Oakley: Thanks so much. It's great talking to you.

[32:14] Michelle Simone Miller: Great talking to you, too. Thank you, Paige. Thank you so much for listening to Mentors on the Mic. If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with a friend in entertainment you know would love it. Let me know what you've learned or what stayed with you on our Instagram at Mentors on the Mic. I love reading your messages. You can also find me at MichelleSimoneMiller on Instagram. On both accounts, I'll be sharing even more information about our mentors. Talk to someone about what you learned today who would really appreciate it and send them the episode. Also, if you love the show, please go ahead and leave us a rating and review on iTunes. It really makes a huge difference in growing this. It makes it easier for people to find our podcast. I love reading your reviews. Thank you so much and I'll see you next week.