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[0:00] Chris Lanceley: Hello and welcome back to the Mischief Makers podcast. My name is Chris Lanceley. I'm your host and on this season we are covering everything to do with the nine year run of The Play That Goes Wrong here in New York City. Today I am joined by Lara Tenenbaum and Dora Trenbeath who are the production stage manager and assistant stage manager or sub-assistant stage manager? Sub-assistant stage manager, many times stage manager, many times production stage manager. A bit of everything over the years. When did you start, Dora?

[0:28] Dora Trenbeath: Oh god, I didn't even think about that. 2022? Starting with a really hard question. That is really hard. I think summer of 2022.

[0:39] Chris Lanceley: Well when did you get married?

[0:41] Dora Trenbeath: When did I get married? Which time? The England time. One time during the pandemic on Zoom. That was in 2020 and then 2023.

[0:55] Chris Lanceley: Oh, so that's the one with people there. 2023 then. Summer of 2023 because my first week at The Play That Goes Wrong, you were in England.

[1:05] Dora Trenbeath: Oh great. Okay, cool. What's interesting, you're in my last week of the show. So you were away for my first and you're here for my last in July.

[1:14] Lara Tenenbaum: That's nice.

[1:15] Chris Lanceley: And Lara, when did you start?

[1:17] Lara Tenenbaum: I also started in 2023.

[1:19] Chris Lanceley: Amazing. Yeah. And then what was your progression?

[1:22] Lara Tenenbaum: So I started as a sub. Dora actually trained me and so I started as a sub-assistant stage manager. I did that for a year and then I came on full-time as a stage manager and then six months ago. Yeah. Six months ago I bumped up to become the production stage manager.

[1:40] Chris Lanceley: Amazing. The Play That Goes Wrong is the award-winning hilarious comedy. Huffington Post calls it tons of fun for all ages. The funniest play Broadway has ever seen. It's a historical, I mean hysterical hybrid of Monty Python and Sherlock Holmes where everything that can go wrong does. According to Forbes magazine you'll never have a better time in a theatre. The Play That Goes Wrong is right for the whole family. Get tickets at broadwaygoeswrong.com.

[2:16] Chris Lanceley: So the roles of stage managers are slightly different in the US from the UK. So I was wondering if you could, we could start off with kind of you defining your roles. First your role is PSM and then the ASM role if you wouldn't mind, Dora.

[2:31] Dora Trenbeath: Sure. So I am responsible for on a day-to-day basis, nightly basis, I'm responsible for the artistic integrity of the show which includes maintaining all directing, all design elements, stunt and fight choreography, you name it. Basically anything that happens during the show on a nightly basis I am responsible for. In addition I'm responsible for the safety of the cast and the crew.

[3:05] Lara Tenenbaum: And yourself.

[3:06] Dora Trenbeath: And myself. Do we really count? I mean yes sure. Plenty you are. And then it's all the other day-to-day stuff, scheduling, emails, oh all the emails, coordinating logistics for everything from having physical therapy in the building to press events to who's going to be at what rehearsal when.

[3:27] Chris Lanceley: Cool. I'm still stuck on the word integrity. I didn't really listen beyond that. We're going to get into that. And uh Dora yeah I imagine it's kind of all the above.

[3:36] Dora Trenbeath: All of the above with a main focus in specifically what's happening on the deck backstage. So I'm more invested in the crew and the cast specifically like night-to-night safety big thing you know making sure that everyone is in the right place on the deck where they need to be especially when we're training new people especially new cast like yeah I have sort of had this reputation of being the one there when we put in new people because I am very good at like safeguarding our new friends as they join cast or crew.

[4:10] Chris Lanceley: Yeah and you're a friendly face.

[4:12] Dora Trenbeath: Thank you for that. And I uh yeah and then just assisting the PSM and all of that and then if the PSM is out of the building you know then I step up to do that yeah so.

[4:24] Chris Lanceley: Amazing. Calling this show that's obviously a big part of the job. Is this show more challenging than other shows a musical perhaps or is it just kind of its own different beast?

[4:36] Dora Trenbeath: I feel like it's deceptively challenging in that you think of it as like oh it's a straight play like it's it that those are the easiest things to call um but actually this is much more like calling a musical than it is a typical play and it can kind of lull you into this false sense of like safety and security like oh we're just we're just changing the lights like no big deal and then we're like into real like automation safety things that you really don't necessarily deal with on things that are other than like a musical.

[5:06] Lara Tenenbaum: Yeah it's a bit different from your sort of typical play um so not the hardest thing I've ever called um Dora I think probably would say the same not the hardest thing I've ever called but it is deceptively difficult.

[5:20] Chris Lanceley: Right and the thing is is that if everything is going right a la going wrong it is fine it is perfectly fine knowing all of the contingencies of when it goes wrong in the wrong way that's the part that is constantly floating in the back of your brain is okay what are we doing if we're doing a no platform show okay what are we doing if we if a curtain doesn't fall and we have to hold like Lara and I have both held this show multiple times um and that does not get less scary anytime like the adrenaline when you have to hold the show whether it's for the tiniest little thing the door handle coming off the door when it's not supposed to which has happened to Lara multiple times whether it's for an injury on stage whether it's for an um the building tells you to stop because the fire alarms are going on yeah um the audience and we've I've held for a rowdy audience members before that we had to kick out that was a day that we had together so it's more it is always just that you have to be on high alert for what is possibly coming and remembering all of the steps of what okay no platform show here's here's what I need to tell props here's what I need to tell lighting here's what we need to make sure the cast knows here's what we need to make sure that this traffic is different those are the things that are constantly like and that um never goes away.

[7:03] Chris Lanceley: Yeah I'm actually I'm going to be the active glossary for the podcast and let's define calling the show I should have maybe done this before but calling the show that is what is that?

[7:08] Dora Trenbeath: So that is um so we call lighting sound um automation some like set moves um some props moves and we have some actor cues as well which you don't have as Chris Bean but you did have when you played Robert the light the the light yeah yeah so you're you're responsible for speaking to each of those departments and telling them when to do which things.

[7:35] Chris Lanceley: Yes anytime you see anything move on stage it's because a calling stage manager is cuing the people to make the thing happen.

[7:40] Dora Trenbeath: Cool so that's calling and holding the show's pretty self-explanatory that's when we have to stop yeah for any reason for whatever reason and everyone's heard that lovely thank you for your patience while we have a technical difficulty.

[7:56] Chris Lanceley: That's so it's interesting from the stage that because obviously I I've been backstage when we've had to hold for things um so I've seen it from there but being on stage it's so it either you you can see and you can tell that we're about to hold because you can see either someone got hurt or something isn't where it needs to be and there's no way we can carry on or which has happened a few times you have no idea.

[8:19] Dora Trenbeath: I was gonna say the last time I stopped the show I don't think you had any idea why we stopped.

[8:24] Chris Lanceley: Uh yeah no I had no idea everyone's gonna be wondering what it is now.

[8:31] Dora Trenbeath: Little injury.

[8:32] Chris Lanceley: Yeah yeah yeah uh he's fine he's absolutely fine he was fine then he was over no he wasn't.

[8:38] Dora Trenbeath: The other interesting thing from the stage is that I mean and maybe this is what's different and what makes it more challenging is um timing you're so involved we often talk about how the set is another character in the show and you are essentially the puppeteer behind the set deciding when certain things happen so and and the timing is crucial from from you do you feel that pressure?

[9:04] Lara Tenenbaum: Yes and it's definitely one of the things when we're training new stage managers to call the show that it's that that is one of the most difficult things is like getting into that rhythm yeah and knowing kind of like in your bones what that rhythm is like I I've been training people and it's it's like you know oh I call this on the v of haversham yeah you know what I mean it's like it's this very specific per person thing and it's it's I think that's the most difficult part of this call and that's what makes it more like calling a musical is because on it in musicals right you're calling it on a beat you're calling it on a you know and but this is kind of similar because you are calling it you know someone's rhythm like especially because like you've been in the show for a very long time I know your rhythm I can anticipate when you're going to do things how you're going to say it you know I can tell you what kind of a show you're having by the way you say certain lines.

[10:03] Chris Lanceley: Yeah yeah that's that's interesting because I I'm like you said that and you have a rhythm and you've been doing it so long and I'm like no I'd mix it up every night it's different I'm just living in the moment.

[10:12] Lara Tenenbaum: In your head you do but what comes out at least to us is yeah you know what I mean like I'm being your intention behind it is different every night but the right the vocal rhythm at which this play works yeah is best when it is consistent for everybody like that is the part that is like a musical when you can I can close my eyes and just hear the rhythm and know where you are on stage where Brent is on stage and that when when we train deck stage managers too I'm always like training listen for the rhythm because when the rhythm breaks that's when I'm like something happens yeah that's when I'm like that sound is new that he turned stage right instead of stage left that's there's a reason for that like he that is part of how we keep people safe on this show is the rhythm it's it's also one of the things that when we're training deck stage managers because I'm in the middle of training a deck stage manager right now that we're also like you'll know if this stunt is wrong you'll hear a different sound when they for instance roll off the shades yeah like these are the things we're looking for and I'm like I can't quantify what it's going to like sound like but you will know but you will know because you'll be so used to what it's supposed to sound like that when it sounds different a la the first time you rolled off the chaise Jonathan I went different I was like oh that's different he's very loud.

[11:43] Chris Lanceley: I try to be on and off stage um yeah I played Jonathan I I was the or just kind of glossary ongoing this is although this isn't a glossary thing um I was uh the original Jonathan off Broadway when we opened in 2019 I did it for I don't know about 600 700 shows maybe uh and then I switched to being but I was lucky enough to go back and do two shows last year um I don't know if we had a coverage issue or something and I ended up switching out which I'm still bitter I didn't get to see because I was praying for it for so long.

[12:12] Lara Tenenbaum: Well after July I will be I'll be swinging in as whoever I can't wait I cannot wait being Jonathan Robert.

[12:18] Chris Lanceley: I know me either I can't wait for that kind of mixed bag who am I going to be in a good day you're training someone new right now?

[12:28] Lara Tenenbaum: I am.

[12:29] Chris Lanceley: Is that a challenge?

[12:31] Lara Tenenbaum: To consistently have to, I mean, bring new people in, subs, that sort of thing. I mean, is that training someone on this show different than another show? Is there a lot of kind of offstage stuff that you have to talk people through as well? Because obviously this show has a life backstage, offstage, rehearsals, before the show, after the show, that you also have to deal with as stage managers here. What is that like training someone new and telling them what to expect here?

[13:00] Dora Trenbeath: Do you want to start?

[13:01] Lara Tenenbaum: Yeah. Well, I can say, I mean, to the little like boring stuff, the backstage traffic, for example, in the final 10, like you must, regardless of who you are, stage manager, props, whatever, you have to stand in the exact same place every time or you will break the traffic pattern. Like that is to like the exact space on the floor. So those things like those sort of technical things are very important. Obviously, they keep everything flowing backstage and that's a big part of it. But more, I think the specifics are like, for example, in the Sandra knockout, we've had, you know, I've done the show with eight or nine different Sandras. They all land in a slightly different way when they get knocked out.

You know, Maggie Weston, who did it for several years, landed with her legs in a figure four. Gemma and Leanna land with their legs in a big V. So learning and like teaching and knowing those things, not just like, okay, the Sandra is going to get knocked out now, but like Gemma does it like this. Leanna does it like this. Laura does it like this. And all of those specifics of every person for every stunt, for every, you know, again, the beans rolling off the, sorry, the Jonathan's rolling off the platform. Many of them land like one knee up, one knee on the ground. Damien lands with his butt wide up in the air, like full butt. And so, and that's what he does. So like those-

[14:31] Dora Trenbeath: He's a very butt forward actor.

[14:32] Lara Tenenbaum: Yes, he is. That's very true. He gets the most air on the truss swing. He does the biggest swing, big swing forward, big landing. Like that's what he does. Clyde, who did the, was Jonathan for years, has had the most specific truss swing. Like, so all of the intricacies of each person, each character, even each person running the light board is slightly different. The timing of each person running automation, the timing can be slightly different. And so remembering like, and for example, when Sid was Max, he gets the vase handed on the upstage side of the metal unit and every other Max gets handed on the downstage side, all of those things. So we're remembering them like, okay, this person's on today.

What do I need to remember? And then trying to teach, okay, this person's on today. What do you need to remember? Like, here's all the things you need to know about this person's track. That's the big challenge of this show. And there's some of that in a musical. Some people do, but on the whole, I would say when understudies, for example, are going into a track in an ensemble in a musical, they're going to fit much more into the mold versus because this show has so much physical safety, it is more okay for Sandra to fall for a different way, for example. So I think that's the big challenge of teaching the show.

[16:01] Dora Trenbeath: Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of them. And then there's like all of the other stuff that we do, right? Because it's not just running the show, right? It's not just like watching the deck track or calling the show, right? We're also like we're in the office doing paperwork. We write a report every single night or not even just every night. We write a report after every single show. We do all of the scheduling for the entire show cast crew, sometimes artistic staff. And then it's like answering all of the emails, right? So it's all of those little things. Like yesterday when I was training, I was like, oh, birthday club, you're responsible for birthday club. Here's the birthday club template email. Here's how you figure out who was the last person on birthday. Like it's all of these-

[16:54] Chris Lanceley: Glossary moment, what is birthday club?

[16:56] Dora Trenbeath: Okay. Birthday club is basically it's a group of people that sign up that they want to like celebrate their birthdays. And so it kind of goes in like round robin fashion. So for instance, Mr. Lansley-

[17:10] Chris Lanceley: I am next.

[17:11] Dora Trenbeath: You are next. So Chris's birthday was the last one that we celebrated in April. He is responsible for buying treats for the person whose birthday is next, which is next week. And it is our head of wardrobe. So he has gotten his reminder email yesterday.

[17:24] Chris Lanceley: She wants cookies.

[17:25] Dora Trenbeath: She does want cookies. He got his reminder email yesterday that he's got to provide a treat next week. But that's like all of these other little bits and pieces. And it's things about like, okay, we're in rehearsals. What do you need to do in rehearsals? Like, what are you responsible for in rehearsals? It's not just being on book. Sometimes we're also like, we're actively calling the show during rehearsals. It's knowing what, if we have costume pieces, where to find those, what props we're going to need for each individual track and what are like the stunts that we continuously rehearse for those tracks. And then it's put-ins. So like Dora is going to come and do a put-in rehearsal with us next week to help train our new stage manager because those are-

[18:10] Lara Tenenbaum: What's a put-in?

[18:11] Dora Trenbeath: Hyper specific. It's when we put a new cast member into the play. So next week we're putting in a brand new Chris Bean.

[18:26] Chris Lanceley: My replacement.

[18:27] Dora Trenbeath: Your replacement. Yes. We're putting David in next week. So Dora is going to come in and help me train for that. And we have a very specific process. And so it's just not just about like running the show, but it's all of the other things that go into running the show. Sometimes you, in a put-in, for example, sometimes you skip chunks. Like if, you know, when the Bean's off stage for the five minutes or whatever, we jump forward. So then it's making sure that we're actually set to go on to the next thing. Like in those five minutes, did anything move on stage? Did a prop come on or off? Like again, knowing the show in, out, up, down that well that you can be prepared to say, yep, we're good to jump forward. No, we need to move this thing. Like all of that.

[19:11] Lara Tenenbaum: And also, are we going to make Chris Bean sin on the platform for 15 minutes?

[19:15] Dora Trenbeath: I was just thinking that. I think yes. I think that's important to know how long that is.

[19:20] Chris Lanceley: Actually, yes, we do make them sin.

[19:22] Lara Tenenbaum: When to get prepared.

[19:24] Chris Lanceley: Yeah.

[19:24] Lara Tenenbaum: Yeah. I was about to say what it is. That's a spoiler. I don't imagine anyone listening to this podcast is unaware of The Play That Goes Wrong.

[19:30] Chris Lanceley: Can you imagine?

[19:31] Lara Tenenbaum: Maybe. I don't know.

[19:33] Chris Lanceley: Maybe they've only seen comedy about a bank robber and not a play that goes wrong.

[19:37] Lara Tenenbaum: Yeah. Bank robbery.

[19:38] Chris Lanceley: Bank robbery. Sorry, it's not Come to America. I've only heard.

[19:43] Lara Tenenbaum: That's true. That's true.

[19:44] Chris Lanceley: I've been waiting for that one to come to America for nine years.

[19:47] Lara Tenenbaum: I've heard wonderful things.

[19:48] Chris Lanceley: Me too.

[19:49] Lara Tenenbaum: I just know that most people listening to this podcast will be going, it's a robbery.

[19:52] Chris Lanceley: It's a robbery.

[19:55] Lara Tenenbaum: After hearing everything that you have to do on a daily basis, I just want to tell the people listening that this was the easiest recording session to organize. I was like, can you guys, what about this date? Yes. Yes. Ready to go. Here's my email. Done. It was all set up within five minutes. Perfect.

[20:13] Dora Trenbeath: That's the stage manager way.

[20:14] Lara Tenenbaum: We are, we are trained not to be the problem. That is how we live our whole lives is to not be the problem so we can help other people with their problems.

[20:21] Chris Lanceley: Kind of the opposite of acting training.

[20:23] Lara Tenenbaum: That's exactly right.

[20:25] Chris Lanceley: Be the problem.

[20:27] Lara Tenenbaum: When you were talking about that, I forgot, well, I didn't forget, but how much you have to relate to the crew as well as us, you know, where the cast, you know, I'm, we're all in the dressing room where we're all, you know, whatever we wear our own entity. I forget that you also have, you're on the deck with the crew. You're there with them more than you are with us.

[20:45] Dora Trenbeath: Yeah.

[20:45] Lara Tenenbaum: And that has those implications on calling the show and relationships and all of that sort of thing. Is that challenging to kind of, and they're very, you know, they're obviously very different people that the crew, they have different roles, different jobs, responsibilities, stresses, that kind of thing. Is that a challenge at all? Having the kind of managing the two different groups?

[21:10] Dora Trenbeath: I think the biggest part of it is trying to make sure that everyone feels sort of like one group. You know, when that building New World Stages is running the best, like everyone just sort of cohabitates well. I think that, I mean, we've seen it with, you know, several crew members we've had over the years. We know how it is when you can just look to walk past Austin Gray as the automation operator and know everything's going to be okay because you, because the cast and the crew have built that relationship and stage management is in the middle of it. And that is, so that's, I think what is constantly, we're trying to make everyone feel like.

[21:55] Lara Tenenbaum: Cohesive.

[21:56] Dora Trenbeath: Cohesive. And that's not always easy for many reasons. We've had actors in the show for seven plus years, not some people been doing it for nine years in New York. We've had, you know, and some crew members who have joined as recently as six months ago. So to try and meld that energy and, you know, the respect for the quote unquote old guard and like the new energy. And like, this is, you know, a lot of like, this is why we do it this way. And there's, you know, there's all of that. And like, and then being like, this makes no sense. And I, well, yeah, and that's, but it's, you know, that's the thing about a long running show is there are, you reach things where it's like, okay, this makes sense to make this change because we've all agreed we've been doing it for six years this way.

And like, oh, look, we found this new way to do it and whatever. But then there's also things that's like, this is why we do it this way. And we've, I guarantee you, we've tried every other possible iteration of this thing.

[22:52] Lara Tenenbaum: Um, so yeah, all of that to say, I think that it is, it is challenging and we are constantly trying to make everyone feel like, because the crew is such a, such a part of the show as well. I mean, they're doing the Foley, for example, you know what I mean? Like you can tell when you've got a crew member who is invested and understands the timing of the slaps and the punches and whatever, and getting them to feel a part of that team as opposed to just like, I'm taking these cues because it's my job.

[23:21] Dora Trenbeath: Yeah.

[23:21] Lara Tenenbaum: Which I think is, is different than a lot of shows, you know?

[23:25] Dora Trenbeath: Yeah.

[23:25] Lara Tenenbaum: So, okay. Thank you for that. And that's something I hadn't thought about the concept of, you're not trying to service two different groups. You're trying to make one single cohesive group between everyone.

[23:36] Dora Trenbeath: Um, yeah.

[23:37] Lara Tenenbaum: And it doesn't always work. You know what I mean?

[23:41] Dora Trenbeath: It's an ever changing game for sure.

[23:43] Lara Tenenbaum: And like, but it is, I think about my own relationship with the crew and some people I spend a lot of time with, some people I don't. I spend a lot of time on stage. I don't get to see certain people, certain moments in tracks like I did when I was Jonathan.

[23:54] Chris Lanceley: Right.

[23:54] Lara Tenenbaum: And when I went on for those two shows last year, speaking about the backstage choreography, I was like, I don't know where to be, but I'm not in somebody's place, in somebody's way anymore. Um, but you know, I, I make a relationship with, um, props too, because they're always putting snow on my shoulders and they're, they're there when I'm making entrances and that sort of thing.

[24:12] Dora Trenbeath: And the gun handoff.

[24:13] Lara Tenenbaum: I mean, that's, you know, that with props too.

[24:16] Dora Trenbeath: That's a whole ritual.

[24:17] Lara Tenenbaum: Oh my gosh. I always guess the time every night with, uh, with our props too. How, you know, and I can always tell if we're going quickly or slowly with the audience and anyway.

[24:25] Chris Lanceley: Yeah.

[24:25] Lara Tenenbaum: We're about to head into a break. And before we go into the break, uh, I have a mischievous question for you. I'm asking everybody a mischievous question. I've stressed for a long time about whether it's mischievous or mischievous. I've gone with mischievous.

[24:36] Dora Trenbeath: That's where we're at.

[24:38] Lara Tenenbaum: So the American pronunciation.

[24:39] Chris Lanceley: I don't know.

[24:40] Lara Tenenbaum: I'm not sure.

[24:41] Chris Lanceley: I can't remember.

[24:41] Lara Tenenbaum: I was going to say mischievous sounds.

[24:43] Chris Lanceley: I thought mischievous was British.

[24:45] Lara Tenenbaum: I thought it was the other way.

[24:47] Chris Lanceley: Well, maybe that's the question, but my mischievous mischievous question, uh, for you is, would you rather, um, a prop break backstage before it goes?

[25:02] Lara Tenenbaum: On stage, breaks irreparably, or would you rather something doesn't break on stage? For example, something is about to break and that you're about to call and it just doesn't happen. So everything goes, everything breaks backstage or everything does not break on stage. So what's interesting is we have contingencies for both. Yeah. I do feel like it's easier if something doesn't break on stage because then it's like, oh, you know, pull this off the wall or I'm just going to, you know, cause we, those are like, we know how to proceed for most things. Um, I have seen props irreparably break backstage right before they're needed. And, um, the ad-libbing that goes into what happens before we can get a replacement on stage, um, or, uh, what crazy ideas people come up with.

Um, honestly, that's kind of what makes The Play That Goes Wrong great. Um, is that kind of like a lot of you just like you, you know how to ad-lib, you know how to improvise right on the spot. Um, so it's kind of not fun, but we can get away with a lot. We can get away with the audience who haven't seen the show before. I think it's part of the play. The super fans who have seen it a hundred times know something. They know something's happened, but there will be an Instagram story about it that will get reposted by The Play That Goes Wrong. But most people don't know for even when, even when we have to hold the show, like they actually, they often think it's part of the show. We can get away with a lot. So I, I, I agree with you. I know for a fact that's really challenging for the ushers. And they're like, no, it's really, it's real. You actually have to evacuate.

[27:01] Chris Lanceley: Okay. Wonderful. I did have a backup question, which was going to be, uh, you're the deck stage manager. Um, and, uh, right before an entrance, uh, an actor, um, gets hurt, can't go on something. I don't know. They trip, they stubbed their toe and you have to go on for that role. I know this would never happen. This scenario would never happen. The union would go mad. Um, but which character would you want that to be?

[27:23] Lara Tenenbaum: Well, no, they wouldn't because we're allowed to. That's true. We're in the same union. So we are, so as a production stage manager, you are not allowed to go on as a role, but as an assistant stage manager, you are. And my Annie is excellent. I am not kidding. I have done every single bit of Annie except I still have not somersaulted through the window and I will do it before this play closes. But, um, I, my Annie is quite good and I, people have seen it and can attest to it.

[27:49] Chris Lanceley: Yeah. I think I, I got to play Trevor the other day.

[27:55] Lara Tenenbaum: Oh yeah. Trevor's fun too. And I really enjoyed playing Trevor. Um, but I, I would say Trevor or Annie is probably my, yeah. Yeah. It fits it. It is. It's a stage manager role. It's the, it's the easiest because also if I'm standing in the wrong place, um, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Bean's going to glare at me and I'm going to move like for real as Trevor. I also feel fully confident I could do the window lift. So like I feel 100% confident I am strong enough to do that. So yeah, both of those probably.

[28:23] Chris Lanceley: That's something else I'd like to see as well. If you need to do that.

[28:26] Lara Tenenbaum: Give it time. Yeah. It'll happen.

[28:30] Chris Lanceley: All right. We'll be right back.

[28:31] Lara Tenenbaum: Welcome back. Um, we have so many more questions here. Um, I'm going to start with, uh, what is the hardest thing in the show to coordinate over the comm? Um, and I suppose also as the deck SM, there's a lot to do there as well. So what are the hardest things in the show specifically to work on?

[29:01] Lara Tenenbaum: I don't know if there's something that's like on a nightly basis that is the hardest, but definitely I would say the hardest thing for us to coordinate that happens on a regular-ish basis is any kind of show stop. That is the hardest because it's kind of going out of the norm and making sure that, um, for the most part, everybody knows where they need to be, what they need to do, but you are still coordinating because you are coordinating the crew. You're coordinating the cast and you're communicating with house management as well as via radio. So you're like on three different forms of communication because you're communicating on comm with the crew. You're communicating in person with the cast when they inevitably come to talk to you.

Um, you are communicating with the rest of the cast via our like announced paging channel, um, which goes to the dressing room to tell them, Hey, we've stopped the show. Um, and, and the reason we've stopped, um, you're communicating with the house for, to tell them we've stopped by a radio. And then you're also communicating by a text message with the management of the show. So with general management, company management, whenever we stop, we need to fill them in. Um, and potentially depending on the reason that we've stopped production management and, um, directing. Um, so there's not like a, I think that's one piece of it, right? If we do a show set up, if we go into contingency mid-show, that's another area that's like very difficult to coordinate.

It's like, Hey, do you remember this contingency? No. Great. I'm going to talk you through this contingency while I continue to call the show and answer questions from the cast and say, Hey, go pick up this paper that's on stage left or stage right. That like, we'll also walk you through it and let me know what questions you have. Um, and frequently we're also getting like cast members, for instance, fight captains will come backstage when they know we've gone into contingency, um, to try to help coordinate. Right. Um, and they'll need to know what's going on as well.

[31:10] Dora Trenbeath: So our contingencies, uh, are, uh, and we rehearse these. Um, so we have a number of scenarios where if certain things don't happen the way we expect them to do or don't happen at all, uh, we spend a few hours every couple of months rehearsing, um, what to do in those scenarios. And there is a huge list, a multi-page list that is constantly maintained by guess who? We're up to 11 pages now.

[31:34] Lara Tenenbaum: 11 whole pages. Um, and everyone should know their role in the cast. Everyone should know what, um, which is so challenging for the, uh, covers who know four or five different roles should know exactly what to do in each scenario. For example, the shield that swings down and hits Chris Bean on Chris Bean's entrance. If that doesn't swing down, if it swings down early, late, you know, what do we do? How do we proceed? What scenarios can we continue in? What scenarios end up in a show stop or a hold? Um, we have all of that planned out in advance in, um, you know, with, with you guys. Uh, but if anyone's backstage, a new company member who hasn't had one of these rehearsals yet, you have to talk to them and tell them what it is.

[32:15] Chris Lanceley: I imagine that's where a quality ASM assistant stage manager comes in as well. That can leave you to call while they know. And you're one, you're someone who's been here Dora so long and you've experienced a lot of these things from behind the call desk and off it.

[32:28] Dora Trenbeath: Yeah. Well, I will give a prime example. The first time that, um, we had to do a no platform show with a new Trevor, never fun. The no platform show is never fun for anybody. Um, the first time we had done it with a Trevor who hadn't done the contingencies or hadn't remembered, we are, Trevor has a phone that is from the show, which is part of his character. But the big reason he has the phone is because he's in the clock for several minutes and has no idea if the platform has fallen or not. So I was texting with the Trevor at the time saying, okay, the platform hasn't fallen. Do you remember what you do instead of going under the platform? Because it's not going to, you can't get knocked out by the third level drop if the platform hasn't fallen.

And the alternate is that the Trevor goes backwards out the window, Christine pushes him out the window. So like being able to communicate that over text to make sure that they understand, um, it's the same thing for when they come out of the clock and hit Sandra, like they have to manipulate the clock in a different way. Sandra stands at a slightly different place because the platform isn't taking the brunt of that clock hit. So communicating that all over text in like five minutes, making sure that they feel safe, they feel good because if they don't, we're going to stop the show. Like end of day, we will never proceed if it's not safe. That is, and, and I will say, having done the show for so long, we have had the blessing of general management, company management, artistic, we stop whenever it is not safe.

No one has ever been like, why did you do that? Like it's always, yeah. Safety is the number one priority. And we are very lucky that they're always supportive, but like, we don't want to stop. So ideally, we don't do that for multiple reasons. So making sure that that actor felt like, yep, I've got this. I know what to do. I can do this safely. I feel confident that I can do this safely. That is when, you know, you need someone on the deck who knows the show. You don't want like, there are people who can just come in and like run the track, but, but doing all of those pieces, that's when you need a quality assistant in that moment is, and that the PSM or whoever's calling, calling SM doesn't have to even worry.

You're like, no, I got this part. You keep calling the show. You deal with this, you know, the crew, you deal with whatever, you get ready to try and do the platform drop again, whatever it is, as we're like communicating all of these things.

[35:04] Chris Lanceley: It's true because as we have someone training at the moment, we have so many stage managers backstage as well. What's the collective term? An abundance?

[35:09] Dora Trenbeath: An abundance of stage managers.

[35:10] Chris Lanceley: Yeah. A murder of stage managers. Definitely a murder of stage managers.

[35:16] Lara Tenenbaum: That's great. That whole thing, we're all instilled with that, you know, feeling and confidence that we can, even the actors on stage can hold the show. And that's great. That we can all feel comfortable doing that. If we don't feel safe, if it's something that we don't want to continue for, we can all just put our hand up and say, let's stop.

[35:23] Dora Trenbeath: And you and I have done that together. And at least two situations where it was like, it is when you are calling, that's another piece of it is like, we want to let and let the cast, the people on stage really dictate what is happening because we might look at it and be like, that was scary. Something's wrong. Are they okay? But we are looking at it over a monitor. And if you're lucky, the ASM maybe has a shot from the wings where they walk out front of house and try and see what's going on. So we're always trying to judge like, is everyone okay? Is everyone safe? And so sometimes you, like the person on stage being like, no, we are, we need no, like save us, please. It is such a like symbiotic relationship in that way.

Like I, you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, yeah, I can see it in your, I could see in your face that you were ready to say, hold, as I was saying, hold on the God man. Like that relationship is like, and that trust, like that's such a big part of, again, like anyone can come in and just like run the track, but like knowing, like we were saying before, your body language to know like, you're not okay. This person's not okay. Something is not okay. We cannot continue forward, but we don't want to like disrupt the energy unless we have to. Right. Right. So then that that's, there's so many different ways. There's the timing between the two of us. Then there's that sort of thing where there's safety stuff and little changes can let you know if things aren't quite right.

[37:03] Lara Tenenbaum: Yeah. Yeah. It's the same. You were talking about that earlier. Like if you hear a different rhythm or something, it's the same, you know, there's a whole bit where I'm getting changed from the director tux into the inspector's costume. And I'm listening to the show over the, if there's anything unusual there, I'm terrified. Um, yeah. Uh, is, is there an issue with complacency in the long run? Would you say, or does that add things as well to your role as a stage manager? Just the longevity of it. I can already see things that might be more challenging like access, like myself, seven and a half years and expect and want things to go a certain way and have memories of, um, different roles, you know, what we're used to do that.

[37:34] Lara Tenenbaum: On any show, complacency is always an issue, and especially a show where you are actively watching for safety. That is like always an issue and just like assuming everything will be fine because you know nine times out of ten or nine and a half times out of ten it is. But one of the things that we have is like we are consistently checking because we frequently have understudies or swings on. One of the things we're frequently checking that's just like not a complacency check but a little bit is like have all of these props been switched out for the next person who's on tonight, right? Because we don't want, you know, one person's mouth going on another person's mouth like their prop, you know, those kinds of things like those kinds of like little tiny details.

Those are the things that like we're checking when we change over, like when we switch cast members. When we talk mouths on mouths, we're talking about the bank book that goes in somebody's mouth or cups we drink from or like the cigarette case. Each standard has their own mouth tape. Yeah, all of those things. All of those things get changed out depending on who's on in the role.

[39:00] Dora Trenbeath: I didn't know that about the mouth tape.

[39:01] Lara Tenenbaum: Oh yeah, the Trevors have different bags of peanuts because some of them put their mouths on the bags and some of them pour them into their hands. Yeah, the Roberts have different visors for the fire extinguisher. I didn't even know that, and I played Robert. That's because the stage managers were just like watch and are making sure like oh all of those things have been changed out. So that's like one area where we're like constantly fighting the complacency. But another is just like that's why I think we give so many notes. And we're constantly on this show giving notes. We're constantly getting notes and we're constantly giving notes. So we're getting notes from directors, the production managers, what have you.

But we're also constantly giving notes not just to the actors but to the crew as well to kind of combat that. Like oh hey, I like, you know, the plant looks sad. It needs more palm fronds. You know what I mean? Like just those like little normal things that are like a part of wear and tear because we're doing this eight shows a week for seven and a half, eight years, right? With, you know, the same props, the same set. And just, you know, really like hey we need to, you know, give this a little bit more love. Give that a little bit more love. You know, maybe it's time for us to look at a replacement for this to kind of like combat that a little bit.

[40:30] Lara Tenenbaum: And then there's also the piece which is that we have, I've worked in several stage management teams to do this show over the past few years. And we have found that it is better when you don't call the show eight times in a row and it is better when you don't deck the show eight times in a row. Which is why we started flip-flopping. We are normal, quote-unquote normal, is we flip every other show. Call one, deck one, call one, deck one. And that is because when you do multiple in a row of either track, it is very easy to start to slip into did I call that cue already today? Did I see that? Was I watching for the right thing? Did I pick up my phone at the wrong moment? Did I, you know, it is because the safety is such a piece of it we're trying to always look at the show with like the freshest of eyes.

And it is totally possible to call weeks on end, but it is not ideal. You are better when you get a chance to, okay now I'm going to focus my brain on this part of the show. The deck part of the show. What are all the things I'm looking for? Now I'm going to call the show and not feel like it's just, it's so much easier to make a mistake when you've done it several days on end. And you know some stage managers don't see it that way, but I, in the most successful teams I have worked on, we have all found that the flip-flop is best because it helps keep your brain fresh and ready to, because when I'm at that calling desk I'm locked in for two hours and ten minutes like here we go again, all those contingencies floating in the back of my head. And when you have to be that on eight shows a week, you know, like it is very easy to.

[42:10] Chris Lanceley: You mentioned the notes. I think it's the same from an actor's perspective. What I've realized through my seven and a half years with the show is that I might get given a note and then two and a half years later I'll be given the opposite note and I'll say why was I given the opposite note? And the answer will probably be because it's getting stale and boring and it's looking, you know, like you do it every single night. Or the combination of players has changed. Or the combination of actors. The music of the show is different. It worked with actor A but it doesn't work in the same way with actor B. You know what I mean? So that's the, it's all those like little tiny things because we've had, and recently, right in the last year we've had like what, three principals change over in the last year? I've been like with us for a while. Annie, Sandra, and Max have all changed over in the last year and so, and about to be Bean.

[43:13] Lara Tenenbaum: Wait, what?

[43:14] Chris Lanceley: I didn't text Dora when I decided I was going to leave the show. I didn't text her directly. I thought I was going to see her soon and Dora's very upset. I'm never going to not hear about that.

[43:28] Lara Tenenbaum: I mean we're approaching time now and I wanted to just kind of touch on the idea that stage management sets the tone in the building. Do you feel a pressure associated with that? Is that something you consider and think about when you approach your role or you're coming into the building? Do you take a moment and think this has been a frantic day. I've got a hundred emails. This is five fires burning that I need to put out. Do I need to take a moment and kind of decide how I'm going to appear for all the people who are in the building?

[43:58] Dora Trenbeath: One thousand percent. A hundred percent. Every day. Every day. So if you're a hundred, you're a thousand. I have to fix my face more than she does. I've got a more aggressive face. I think one of the things, and it's one of the things that we have talked about frequently, is that we inevitably in this job, right, there's a lot of chaos but not everyone needs to know what that chaos is on a daily basis. What you should be walking into is knowing that your team has it under control and like you may know, like you frequently know some of what's happening. A lot of people frequently know some of what's happening. They know we've been in rehearsal all day. I'm always desperate to know more.

[44:45] Chris Lanceley: And soon you can know whatever you want.

[44:46] Dora Trenbeath: But like, you know, people, you know, they'll know, oh we had a four-hour rehearsal today during the day or they'll know like someone is out of the show tonight, right? They may not know the full story but the kind of goal is that we sort of do a reset in the office and by the time the cast is, you know, out in the house warming up and they see us or we're running a fight call that it is business as usual. That there's this like it was a hectic day but like we're going to move on, we're going to do a show, it's going to be a show, it's going to be a thing, we're going to do this thing, this thing that we do together eight times a week. And I, the goal is to like instill the confidence of like we are also locked into the show like you are warming up for your show, right? We are doing the same. This is our time to like also reset and regroup and get into the mindset of like okay now we're going to do the show.

[45:44] Lara Tenenbaum: Great, yeah, and the, yeah, and I think that it just, it goes back to the trust that we build. Like if you see me crying in a corner and then I'm going to step up to the call desk, like that does not instill confidence, that does not instill like oh she's got this. I want you to feel like you can do whatever you need to do on stage to make the best show possible without being concerned that like the show is not going to be called correctly or even just like if you're having a bad day, it's my job to make sure that you are okay to do the show and whatever my like personal, whatever that happened that day, that's for later. Like we can talk about it later but like when we're in this building it's my job to make you feel safe.

[46:35] Dora Trenbeath: Yeah, and again there are people who can do that and there are people who can't.

[46:41] Chris Lanceley: We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.

[46:43] Lara Tenenbaum: Yeah, yeah, it is, actors do not have to drop their day.

[46:48] Dora Trenbeath: No, no, and we often don't, but guess what? We also don't have to go on stage.

[46:52] Chris Lanceley: We don't have to perform on stage.

[46:53] Dora Trenbeath: We have to quote unquote perform for the 12, 14 people, how many people are even backstage these days? I don't know, 14, 15 people in the building, like that's the only people. But you have to go out and do that for 300 people, right? So like when I, when everyone is on stage and when everyone has gone stage left and I'm calling the second about 12 second level drop, I'm all alone stage right, then I can maybe turn off my face, right? But like, but it is also why you'll see frequently we are joking around when we're running the deck track with you all and we're smiling and we're talking and we're because that is also a way of making people more comfortable.

[47:29] Lara Tenenbaum: Yeah, like I think everyone knows at this point that the way I make people feel comfortable is I tell silly stories about my kids and I will tell like ridiculous things that my kids have done that day because it makes people smile and it like makes them feel more comfortable.

[47:47] Chris Lanceley: Yeah, and that's the goal, right? It's just we want everyone to be as comfortable as possible to do the best show that's possible and like we want them to feel confident in our ability to manage anything that happens.

[48:02] Lara Tenenbaum: I think you strike a wonderful balance. I think we're very lucky to have you as the PSM. I think everyone feels very comfortable doing their best work in the environment that you create and foster.

[48:19] Chris Lanceley: And Dora, it is a celebration every time you are subbing into the show and, you know, although you're not full-time with us sadly,

[48:26] Dora Trenbeath: I learned from the best.

[48:27] Chris Lanceley: You know, as soon as you walk in the room, it's like Dora's here, amazing. What's funny is the stage manager that we're training right now, she, that was one of the first things she said to Dora was she was like I want people to react that way when I walk into a room.

[48:44] Dora Trenbeath: People are like Dora.

[48:45] Chris Lanceley: Well, you know, in time, it takes time.

[48:49] Dora Trenbeath: Yeah, it does. Relationships.

[48:50] Chris Lanceley: It was not like that the first day. It's one of the great things about a long seven and a half off-Broadway and nine and a half total in New York run. It helps us build those relationships and foster that environment.

[49:01] Lara Tenenbaum: Well, thank you so much for talking to me today. I really enjoyed this even though I do, we talk so much at work at the show anyway, it's great to kind of have it recorded and actually get an hour to sit down and talk to you guys. It was actually just really nice talking about, I'll talk about the show whenever. I know we've got a little bit over time, but you know, that's fine. What are we going to do?

[49:29] Chris Lanceley: So thank you so much. And for everyone else, we have a few more wonderful episodes left. I hope you join us for those. I'm recording one more today. I'm very excited that matters for the posterity of this podcast. The next episode will be Mark Evans and Alex Mandel who are the replacement Chris Bean and Max on Broadway and Mark also assistant directs, associate directs off-Broadway. So we'll speak to that later today. But thank you so much. I'll see you all soon. Thank you to Lara and Dora. Bye!