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[0:00] Dave Hearn: Hello and welcome to the next episode of Mischief Makers with me, Dave Hearn. I am joined today by two wonderful people. I've got James and Sadie with me. Say hello, James and Sadie.

[0:20] Sadie Jennings: Hello.

[0:21] James Goldsworthy: Hello.

[0:24] Dave Hearn: And why don't you guys just quickly introduce yourselves and tell us what you do in The Comedy About Spies.

[0:25] Sadie Jennings: I'm Sadie. I'm the stage manager for The Comedy About Spies.

[0:29] James Goldsworthy: And I'm James. I am the assistant stage manager.

[0:33] Dave Hearn: Okay. So why don't you guys, for those of us out there who don't know what any of that means, what's the difference between your jobs, for example?

[0:40] Sadie Jennings: So the stage manager kind of oversees everything. So you work closely with departments including technical teams and the creative teams. And my job is to kind of make sure that everything happens when it should and how it should so that we're all together and safe.

[0:58] James Goldsworthy: And then you're part of that.

[0:59] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. Well, I suppose the assistant part is to assist you in that role. It kind of falls a bit more to deal with like the props and the maintenance of that as well. And the actual then book cover part of my role comes into covering the deputy stage manager when they call the show. So if they are ill or away, then it's my job to step up to you just introduce another title.

[1:27] James Goldsworthy: I know.

[1:28] Sadie Jennings: So you cover the deputy stage manager who is the person on the book.

[1:32] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. So Helen is our DSM on this.

[1:37] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. We should like name drop all of our team.

[1:39] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. Get them in.

[1:39] Sadie Jennings: But yeah. Helen is the deputy stage manager who, like throughout tech, was making the book and putting in where the lighting cues go and the sound cues go. And then during the show is the one calling all of that over the comms, over the headset so that it all happens at the right point.

[2:00] James Goldsworthy: So for instance, in a scene change, you'd have Helen on the book who would be calling lights in flown pieces and things like that and sound. Then myself on the deck as a stage manager would be watching everything and making sure everything's moving when it should and everything is safe and being ready to call a stop if needed if something went out of time. And James would be in one wing and Eva, our SM, would be in another wing and they would oversee their crew and varying set pieces. And then the hope is it all comes together and the scene change happens successfully.

[2:35] Dave Hearn: And though you've made that sound quite easy, but now I suppose it does feel slightly easy that we're quite far into the run. Would you agree with that or would you be like there are still very challenging moments in it?

[2:46] Sadie Jennings: Act two is very busy. There's a kind of a section in the middle of act two where it's very quick. So I think everyone knows what they're doing and you get into a lovely rhythm.

[2:56] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, but you still have to make sure you're fully focused the whole time. When you get too relaxed, that's when people start to make mistakes.

[3:05] Sadie Jennings: It feels easier because you've done it so many times, as I suppose it would with you performing as well. But we still have to be switched on a little bit. That section is the act two chase. So even its title sounds a bit manic.

[3:19] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, there's a lot of traveling and there's lots of stuff going on and coming off of it.

[3:25] Dave Hearn: And so I wonder what is the, like as things start to settle, is the more challenging element of the job as it goes on is to remain vigilant? Is that like a very challenging part or is it more physical or is it kind of more of a mental challenge?

[3:40] Sadie Jennings: Probably more so for you. Again, the assistant part of the title makes it slightly easier for me to take a backseat and maybe be a fool in the wings and try and make you laugh on stage.

[3:51] James Goldsworthy: I've noticed.

[3:52] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[3:53] James Goldsworthy: But I'm hearing none of this.

[3:56] Sadie Jennings: No, I don't do that.

[3:58] James Goldsworthy: It's just like a statue. Yeah. Waiting for his next cue.

[4:02] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[4:03] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[4:04] Sadie Jennings: Vigilant. But no, I think we, like with all the roles in whichever department, we have to have an element of being switched on.

[4:12] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. Something were to not happen like it usually does.

[4:18] Sadie Jennings: Yes. And so I think part of it is part of the job is being able to maintain that level for six months a year, you know, depending how long.

[4:31] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. I guess in the same way performance is performance. You want to go out and that's audiences the first time they're seeing you. So you want to have the same performance every night and the same level and the same quality.

[4:39] Sadie Jennings: And I think for us we need to make sure we have the same focus every night even if you're doing it for the eighth time that week and you've been going.

[4:47] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. It's really important to remember that everything needs to happen as planned.

[4:53] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. And if you get too comfortable and start to lose focus, that's when it comes. Things go not in there. Not in the comedic way.

[5:05] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. In an actual way.

[5:05] Sadie Jennings: And so yeah. How do you feel about you're kind of often responsible for someone else's safety, right? Especially if it's an actor who's flying or you're flying something in and there's lots of us running around being silly but you're sort of there.

[5:21] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. How do you feel about that? Is there a moment where you're like, oh God, I wish they didn't do this bit or are you like, okay cool, I'm on it. I've got it.

[5:30] Sadie Jennings: It's like, it's a huge part of the job and sometimes those managers can sadly have to be the kind of sensible one.

[5:39] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. We should maybe stop this.

[5:39] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. But part of the job is making sure that you can achieve what the director wants and what the creative team wants. So I've never had so many people fall out of windows as I have on this show.

[5:49] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, there's a lot of that. Fall out of windows, falling through things, flying, you know, on a Mischief show it's particularly challenging.

[5:59] Sadie Jennings: But a lot of screams as well in the script, like scripted but occasionally.

[6:05] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. Is that a real one or?

[6:05] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. There's one where Adele as Rosemary screams as a fly piece is going out.

[6:13] James Goldsworthy: Oh wow.

[6:14] Sadie Jennings: And I had you have to say to everyone on comms that's gonna happen every night.

[6:18] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, yeah. Unrelated. Especially if you have a deaf in or someone new coming in that you're like, don't panic.

[6:22] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. That's meant to happen. But it's part of the challenge as well and part of the fun.

[6:28] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. If someone says, right, we want this person to fall out a window and swing through here and then fall through here. I mean, you know this.

[6:35] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. You basically just described my part.

[6:35] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. You are the problem.

[6:41] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. Yeah. I'm a problem child.

[6:41] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. Making that happen is part of the fun.

[6:46] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. And just sort of ensuring that there's.

[6:50] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. And actually I feel certainly from my perspective I've never felt like unsafe. I imagine I make. I can't. Have I ever made you nervous?

[6:57] Sadie Jennings: Like I feel like when I jumped out the lift in the tech that was a moment where you were like hmm.

[7:00] James Goldsworthy: When you jumped out the lift and when we were working out if Nancy's character could fall from a height.

[7:06] Sadie Jennings: Oh yeah, yeah. And we said, oh, we'll get someone said, oh, we'll get Dave to test it. And you just went.

[7:13] James Goldsworthy: Just threw yourself off.

[7:17] Sadie Jennings: You threw yourself off this piece. And I'm not sure any of us had had a moment to think yet.

[7:22] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. That was one of those.

[7:25] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. That was one of those weird moments in tech, wasn't there, where it was getting a bit tetchy and we needed, we knew we needed a bigger crash mat and then we wanted to test if we knew. And I was like, I'll get, I'll just do it. And then I hit the deck and I remember you. You were the first person I spoke to at you. You actually okay.

[7:39] James Goldsworthy: I was like, oh no, I've winded myself horribly. But I am fine. I will be fine in about 10 minutes. And then that was when I spoke to Shields because he was like, how was it? And I was like, no, she absolutely cannot do that. And he was like, I think it will be fine. I was like, no, I'm telling you.

[7:51] Sadie Jennings: That was my favorite issue because Shields was very sweet because I went, mate, you're more than welcome to do it if you like. I've just done it and I'm told. And he looked over the edge and went, yeah, okay, let's not do it.

[8:03] James Goldsworthy: No, I was like, good.

[8:03] Sadie Jennings: But that must be hard actually if you've got actors who are just doing stuff like that because if I got really hurt, is that like. Of course I would never be like, why didn't you stop me from doing that. But if I'd got really hurt, is there a moment where you're like, oh, that guy's an idiot or I should have stopped him?

[8:15] James Goldsworthy: No, thankfully all the safety precautions were in place. We had the right thing. We had Greg as our flight captain and we had the director there was myself. I think Shelley was there.

[8:26] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. So all the right things were in place and we were there to look at that action.

[8:33] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, I think it was just the speed with which you went. Yeah cool. I'll do it.

[8:37] Sadie Jennings: And then we're just like ah that hurt. Let's not do that.

[8:40] James Goldsworthy: You have a moment to question whether you should. Oh, it's already happened.

[8:44] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. I think that's always my best way of doing it. It's like because someone will eventually tell me not to. So if I just do it and then I hurt myself, I've proved it right one way or the other. We should or we shouldn't.

[8:57] James Goldsworthy: Jumping through the lift. I think that was in a blackout as well.

[9:01] Sadie Jennings: Yes. Yeah, yeah. You did jump out of the lift in the dark.

[9:05] James Goldsworthy: Oh, so then you couldn't even see that. So that didn't happen.

[9:10] Sadie Jennings: That may or may not have happened.

[9:10] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. But that's the swing side of it as well is because you guys have done it so regularly on other shows, it feels more confident and safe as well. Like your, everyone's presence around it means that we're not necessarily questioning it as much whereas if it was, if you hadn't thrown yourself out of windows in other projects or things, then maybe we would have been a bit more tentative alongside you.

[9:36] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. And it's hard. I know when we have cast changes and stuff like it's really interesting then I know the biggest challenge for stage management that carry over is that you've been working with a cast for a year who are very comfortable with that and you then become comfortable with them being comfortable and then a new cast comes in and you're like, oh, these guys aren't comfortable and you sort of have to reset your.

[9:55] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, and it's just different people's abilities, isn't it? It's like, yeah, the understudies or ensemble covering whichever track might slightly adapt to the physical aspects of a role slightly differently. I mean, it's the same with the depths that come in to learn our tracks if I'm ill or something. We've had simple things like height is like, oh hang on.

[10:28] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, you cannot do what I've been doing on the track even if it's as simple as putting something on a shelf in a scene change. It's like I've been doing that because I'm a foot taller and the person that we've called in, through no fault of their own, doesn't take a huge amount to be able to fix that problem. You just go, okay, someone else put it on the shelf.

[10:48] Sadie Jennings: It's the same sort of thing of like adapting with your understudies or our depth. But we have Liam, our resident tour guide.

[10:54] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, he's a million feet tall.

[10:59] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, he comes in handy.

[11:03] James Goldsworthy: He does a lot of flying as well, doesn't even need to go up to the rig.

[11:03] Sadie Jennings: No, he just picks you up.

[11:11] James Goldsworthy: I had that with the first time I saw Crystal.

[11:11] Sadie Jennings: Who's, is Crystal in-house or is Crystal?

[11:17] James Goldsworthy: In-house, yeah. So does that mean she works for?

[11:25] Sadie Jennings: No, she's freelance but she works for Noel Coward or at the Noel Coward.

[11:30] James Goldsworthy: Yes. Crystal and the other crew were hired by the Noel Coward to work on the show. So we tell them how many people we need.

[11:33] Sadie Jennings: I see.

[11:33] James Goldsworthy: And they hire and make sure we've got the right amount. And so they wouldn't be classed as stage management.

[11:41] Sadie Jennings: No, they are crew.

[11:41] James Goldsworthy: And then there's also the in-house stage who are tied to the Noel Coward who do the flies and they're kind of duty stage and they cover plots and stuff if needed.

[11:46] Sadie Jennings: Okay. And so then what would be the difference between somebody hired by the Noel Coward and like your guys team?

[11:50] James Goldsworthy: We work closely with them but it's more that we're in the rehearsal room. So we're with the project from the very beginning. So you would have had stage management in the workshops as well. And then crew are venue based. So they're not in the rehearsal room with you. And when you get to the venue, I had written plots for all of them. So we knew that we had five crew, two stage left, two stage right, and one who kind of floats around and goes up to the flies.

[12:22] Sadie Jennings: And I'd made draft plots for them and at the start of tech you hand them to them and as we go they adapt and we say actually can you do this instead or they might go oh I think it'd be helpful if I did this and then you build the plots together but you get the starting point. I suppose in theory you could just hand them all that plot over to somebody else who could come in and then pick it up.

[12:43] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, by now they've also learned to cover each other so that they can have holiday or they can...

[12:49] Sadie Jennings: Oh great as well but again like with who can have cover who, Crystal being our resident smaller crew member can fit behind the wharf and that was what I was...

[13:01] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, because I didn't notice that until literally about a month ago. The wharf is two big pieces of set that kind of come on from opposite sides and then between these at the skyline there's like a drop-in, isn't there?

[13:12] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, and the edge of the wharf is just this tiny human just like squeezed in.

[13:16] James Goldsworthy: Now why is she there? Does she just get...

[13:22] Sadie Jennings: She just wanted to be and we never wanted to have fun. You can never just tell her no.

[13:31] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, too much fun. The... we realized that we needed someone to put the drop bolts into the wharf which are things that keep it safe, stop it from shifting about. Yeah, so if it wasn't on big set piece on wheels you guys are all running along it, yeah it's gonna wobble.

[13:43] Sadie Jennings: So in order to put them on, Crystal needs to be behind the wharf and then there was just no way for her to get off stage so she's just there.

[13:53] James Goldsworthy: So she stays there but then it helps because when we move into the next set piece and that section of wharf has to travel off, Crystal is guiding it.

[14:05] Sadie Jennings: Okay, so it did have a bonus. Is she still there until the end of the show?

[14:11] James Goldsworthy: There's a blackout before the bow and she can quickly...

[14:16] Sadie Jennings: So when would be screams and then that blackout she's there until she...

[14:21] James Goldsworthy: Oh wow, that's quite a long time. She runs across and helps strike a set piece stage left and then runs off. So if you watch on the infrared as I do every night, you see Crystal jump up, run across the stage.

[14:27] Sadie Jennings: Wow, I didn't know that.

[14:32] James Goldsworthy: That's so cool.

[14:39] Sadie Jennings: So we had to test out different crew members as to who would fit behind there to cover Crystal and how many have passed the test.

[14:43] James Goldsworthy: Is it just... is there a Crystal?

[14:50] Sadie Jennings: Oh wow, that's so fun. Yeah, because I remember seeing her and just sort of like she was so very chill and then I kind of was like, "Crystal!" like sort of waved at her and then she just sort of looked up from like laying on the floor and she was just like, "Yeah, I'm here all the time."

[15:08] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, bless her.

[15:12] Sadie Jennings: Well, how do you feel like when you come into the rehearsal room and then moving into tech and then dress and then opening night? Is it the similar... do you think it's a similar track to an actor in terms of feeling or is it like you feel slightly more detached from it until a certain point?

[15:23] James Goldsworthy: I mean there's definitely the same adrenaline when it comes to first performances and like opening night previews and all of that build up. You can obviously feel a bit more relaxed in rehearsals because it's not the real thing and able to facilitate a bit more but then yeah, you also can't escape. You don't want to be the thing that also isn't like perfect on...

[15:49] Sadie Jennings: Sure, yeah, on any show but especially like some of the earlier ones when all of the creatives are in and all of the friends of and family is under a lot of scrutiny.

[15:55] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, yeah.

[16:01] Sadie Jennings: And now it's up and running and we just don't care about...

[16:10] James Goldsworthy: No, just let it... yeah, it kicks off more in tech because in the rehearsal room the SMS are working especially on this show, they're working incredibly hard getting all the different props together for all the different ideas that people were working.

[16:20] Sadie Jennings: Because you'll... you know there'll be new ideas, a lot of ideas and it's great that you can then have a quick standing prop and test that out.

[16:24] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, so cutting a lot of things out of polystyrene, I remember this.

[16:31] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, yeah, that was very cool. They didn't make the final show, alas. But you two were very busy doing that and my role in rehearsals is more planning so that when we get into tech everything's there and ready to go and we all know what we're doing.

[16:45] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, so yeah for me it really kicks off in tech when you kind of bring all the departments together for the first time and make everything... try and make everything run smoothly.

[16:51] Sadie Jennings: So are you on comms with all the departments all at once?

[16:57] James Goldsworthy: So I have on my comms I have the DSM stage which is flies, stage crew, stage management and a stage management private ring and then lighting have a separate ring.

[17:08] Sadie Jennings: But I can talk to them in the main ring.

[17:15] James Goldsworthy: Okay, yeah. And so you're like quarterbacking everyone with... and are you trying to like hear bits of conversation? Right, so if a director and say an actor is talking about something can you go, "Well I know that's about to have an on-stage effect that needs to be changed"? Are you relying on that to be communicated directly to you or you're sort of eavesdropping all the time?

[17:35] Sadie Jennings: They're both, I think you need to especially in the rehearsal room there's lots of conversations going on at once and you kind of need to be aware of all of them so that if someone comes to you and says, "Oh we need this now," you know what that's in relation to or if a director says, "Oh I've just decided that we're going to change this or cut this," you're kind of with them. It's not a shock to you when they come and say that because like this sometimes discerning the difference between like a, "Oh this is a thought that I've had," and "Oh no this is now set and we said that yesterday."

[18:15] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, and this is definite like can be quite a thin line I imagine with us as well because it will probably be like because we all... all of the actors have a certain level of kind of autonomy about the show so like I know that if I've come up with a joke that the writers will be happy for me to try it so like yeah I might just be chatting to you and be like, "Oh yeah, I just had this idea," but then sometimes like a whole thing will turn up and I'll be like, "James, what this like you said?" and I was like, "Did I? Yeah, okay, yeah this is great, let's do it," or I'll be like, "Where's that thing that I definitely asked you for which I definitely didn't?"

[18:43] Sadie Jennings: I think that's what makes a Mischief show really interesting is as you said you've all got input.

[18:50] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, because it's not your standard there's a group of actors, here's a director, here's a writer. You're all involved and it's really collaborative but it means there's a lot of ideas.

[19:00] Sadie Jennings: A lot of ideas, a lot of voices. But Matty, our director, is absolutely brilliant.

[19:09] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, he was really good listening to you all and everyone having input and then also keeping everything on track.

[19:14] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, and how did the tech compare for you guys having to make the decision and going, "Yeah, that's enough ideas now, let's... this is a good one, let's stick with that one"?

[19:21] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, I actually said this to Matty as well a couple of weeks ago. I was like, "I think you give us too much reverence. I think he was too kind to us. He was, 'I want to hear everyone's idea.' I was like, 'No, no, sometimes men need to be like, guys shut the f*** up, we need to just pick a lane and do it.'" But I thought he did that really well in the tech.

[19:39] Sadie Jennings: He did, yeah. It was like he... it felt like it could have gone off the rails.

[19:44] James Goldsworthy: Oh very easily. Matty was... I think I have to say the most organized director ever because the American system is slightly different so he kind of moved from stage management to directing because the American stage manager is more creative, which means he came at everything with a stage manager brain which I absolutely loved.

[20:02] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, yeah. He had ticks on the travelator and things like that, kind of language that would have necessarily some other directors might have just been like, "Figure it out." Like he solved it for us.

[20:12] James Goldsworthy: That's a good thing actually, people might find it interesting.

[20:17] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, tell us about the ticks on the travelator.

[20:23] James Goldsworthy: Sounds like a band. In the show, the travelator runs like across the whole length of the stage like a treadmill.

[20:30] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, operated mostly by Liam as well, resident tall Liam.

[20:37] James Goldsworthy: And so for like the frantic act to chase, for example, it's running constantly, you guys are running on it, and then stage management and crew are placing small bits of set like a newspaper stand or a souvenir stand for it to go across and that happens off stage to then move on to stage and meet you guys in the center.

[21:03] Sadie Jennings: So a lot of tech was the timing of that and yeah, when do we put it on? Can we put it on with beats of the music for it to meet the middle?

[21:10] James Goldsworthy: Wow, because obviously then the speed that it travels at can change that too.

[21:15] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, so getting all of those bits precise. And the tick part of it was Matty created like every... I think it ended up being a meter apart, wasn't it? So every meter we have a little spike mark, it's like a little golden or yellow thing.

[21:30] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, and then at the top of act two, as a good example, when there's that corridor scene that Bernard walks between the two rooms a lot, that became very much, "Okay, so how many meters?" I suppose is the easier way of saying it is before we put the bit of set on.

[21:49] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, yeah.

[21:58] James Goldsworthy: For Bernard to reach it at the pace that we're moving at because then each scene also speeds up.

[22:04] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, of course.

[22:08] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, because I remember being in the same wing as you because you're watching from there and I remember hearing some conversations that was just so funny because like the guys were like trying to put the doors on with the ticks and the amount of times I just heard Matty being like, "How many ticks are we on?"

[22:17] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[22:23] James Goldsworthy: And then he'd be like, "17." He'd be like, "Make it 25." And it was just felt so random.

[22:29] Sadie Jennings: And I remember Callum just being like, "He's not gonna want 25, he's gonna want 21, I guarantee you."

[22:34] James Goldsworthy: And like the serious conversation about the ticks.

[22:38] Sadie Jennings: No, with people just being like, "Are you on comms?" being like, "He's about to change it to 19."

[22:44] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, and then it's like he doesn't want 19 ticks, he wants 20. And then it'd be like, "It's 20 now." But we sort of just had to like...

[22:50] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, to be fair, I think Matty was fairly accurate with a lot of them.

[22:54] James Goldsworthy: And as you guys got better at it, I think that's when the amount of ticks reduced because it was like you needed less time.

[22:57] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, because you were getting through a couple of previews as well. I think there were some like script changes as well to make like that whole section a bit tighter.

[23:05] James Goldsworthy: So eventually, again, it's... we've done it so many times that it seems to go flawlessly a lot of the time but it doesn't take much on that moving conveyor belt.

[23:11] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, yeah.

[23:18] James Goldsworthy: If something's placed slightly off, yeah.

[23:23] Sadie Jennings: Like why?

[23:27] James Goldsworthy: Why is the door at a complete 90?

[23:32] Sadie Jennings: Oh yeah, some of that is funny.

[23:36] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, we're just trying to like dodge the props that have just been like... so you could just... and it's so weird on stage like when you see the stuff coming on you can sort of tell the story that's happened in the wing where you're like, "Oh something's gone wrong," and somebody's just had to throw all of this on and you're sort of walking towards it laughing because you know it's not right.

[23:48] Sadie Jennings: Usually one of us kind of like trying to backpedal.

[23:56] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, because to give an idea to you know people that see the show in each wing in that back and forth there's stage management and there's one stage manager, like ASM, two crew members and a cast member helping to lift things on and off.

[24:01] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, plus the cast members that are getting on the travelator to move.

[24:05] James Goldsworthy: And then stage left we've also got Liam operating and myself watching.

[24:11] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, so many of us stood in this tiny little gap having to lift things on and off to time.

[24:18] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, it's so strange. I think as well the thing about the No Coward is it has a lot of depth but we don't have a lot of width, do we? Like behind what you can see there's a lot of space but to the left and right of what you can see is very tight and I've definitely slammed into the wall a few times on the chases.

[24:27] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, because you've got to like sprint off into the way.

[24:31] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, do you remember this journey we talked about crash mats?

[24:36] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, yeah, people could just like bounce off heading back in.

[24:41] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, I thought that might encourage people.

[24:44] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, to be fair, yes, that's a very good point actually. I'll be like, "Yeah."

[24:45] Sadie Jennings: I just slam into a crash mat, it's fine. Just pad all the walls up. And I mean, you can attest to the act two chase as well on stage right, when we're essentially playing the floor is lava with everyone.

[24:57] James Goldsworthy: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[24:57] Sadie Jennings: Costume are having to stand on treads of another set piece to be out of the way of everything else that's moving whilst they're doing quick changes. It's quite... so much stuff coming in and going off and it's like, yeah, getting it out of the small space into the bigger space.

[25:11] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, but it's also the walkway for everyone to get to the stage. So if one's trying to dodge it, yeah, if there wasn't any cast on stage having, yeah, it would actually be really... I think a lot of our problems would be solved if we just got rid of that bike.

[25:25] Sadie Jennings: I feel like the bike is always... don't let me hear you say that.

[25:28] James Goldsworthy: But we all thought we all had bets that the bike would be cut. I don't think anyone predicted that the bike would get added in more.

[25:34] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, me too. I thought I did not see that coming.

[25:36] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, and it's now in. It's Kenny Waxman. He loves the bike. Literally. I remember we put the bike so much. I think it had to make extra appearances.

[25:45] Sadie Jennings: Oh my God. It was mad. I remember we did this whole run and it was like a real big triumph for us at Three Mills where we were rehearsing and we'd put it all together and we'd had like, yes, like polystyrene cutouts of stuff and like as much tech as we could get. And I think I remember us managing to like really do it and being like, okay, there's a lot of work, but we've just put together a run. And I never forget Kenny just being like, I loved the bike going across the stage. And I was like, are you serious? You've just watched us break. Everyone's broken their back for two hours. And you're telling me you like the bike. He was like, yeah, you don't see a bike on stage very much. I was just like, get out. You're not welcome here anymore. Leave.

[26:25] James Goldsworthy: Well, there we go. It's got a bigger part. It's in. It's in. And is there any parts of the show that, what are the parts that you get most excited by or most scared by? And it doesn't have to be spies. It can sort of be in any show that you're like this part of it.

[26:38] Sadie Jennings: I don't think there's anything that I get scared by, like not to the extent of being terrified, but I, because I kind of enjoy some of those moments that create the adrenaline, the adrenaline that would be nerves or being scared. But for me, I really enjoy calling a show and I'd like to be TSM one day.

[27:05] James Goldsworthy: Hire me, please.

[27:08] Sadie Jennings: Yes. Well, yeah, yeah. I get the last month of the run to be TSM, which is lovely. And you've done it a few times already.

[27:14] James Goldsworthy: Yes, I have.

[27:16] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, but especially when you first learnt the book.

[27:20] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, it's very much. Personally, I feel it's very much more obvious. If I were to mess up, it kind of falls on that role's head to be like, oh, yeah, hands up. That was me. Not saying that when I'm ASM, I pretend it's someone else's.

[27:38] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[27:40] James Goldsworthy: But if the mistakes were slightly more public, yeah, if you don't sound cue or light cue isn't quite right.

[27:47] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[27:51] James Goldsworthy: And especially with things to music or something as well, when it's so clearly supposed to be happening on the beat of something, it's harder to maybe hide those little mishaps, which have never happened. But that going, yeah, the adrenaline of that is quite nerve-wracking, especially the first few times. But I quite like it.

[28:12] Sadie Jennings: And it must be kind of weird because you're sort of in...

[28:15] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[28:18] Sadie Jennings: Describe the little perch for the...

[28:23] James Goldsworthy: I've never personally been in a perch before. It could be looked at as quite like regal or like surveying everyone down below. But it's a little bit lonely. It's a bit isolated.

[28:34] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[28:39] James Goldsworthy: Because also the benefit of our comm system, the way we communicate with each other, there's so many rings or channels to all the different departments to talk to each other. The one that the DSM operates on is like the main one that everyone hears. But to avoid distracting the DSM, not many people talk on it.

[28:56] Sadie Jennings: Sure.

[28:56] James Goldsworthy: So there's a massive chunk of especially in the Battenberg when it's just scene after scene, lighting cue after lighting cue. You're sat up there in your perch and it feels like you're just talking to like everything because you're watching a screen as well.

[29:12] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[29:17] James Goldsworthy: And then have definitely been times I've felt like going anybody out there? Like, yeah. And I'm just kind of like chatting to myself up here.

[29:22] Sadie Jennings: Well, that's kind of what I was interested in. He's describing that kind of like adrenaline or the nervousness. And I can imagine if you have that backstage and you're around loads of other people, there's there's a kind of shared experience or if you're like lugging a massive bit of set and doing something big and physical. But if you're just kind of sat staring at a book and a screen on your own, just experiencing that kind of strange.

[29:49] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, I think it can have its benefits too. Sometimes if you don't want to have to talk to people.

[29:55] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, you're one of those days like just me and my little space, but you don't necessarily get as much gratification as like you say, if you're pushing the wharf up the ramp at top speed with three other people.

[30:12] James Goldsworthy: I think stage management is an interesting one because the jobs particularly stage manager and DSM are so different.

[30:19] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, even though it's technically deputy stage manager.

[30:22] James Goldsworthy: Deputy to your role, but in no way are they similar.

[30:26] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, they're very different, aren't they?

[30:28] James Goldsworthy: So you get a lot of people like I am much happier running around on the deck.

[30:31] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, like problem-solving that way.

[30:35] James Goldsworthy: And other people are just so brilliant at DSM and so suited to that because it's just a completely different skill set.

[30:42] Sadie Jennings: I feel like Helen had to almost create a whole other language to sort of understand that tech process as well of just like being able to go, like again over here those conversations, oh, a line change.

[30:54] James Goldsworthy: Oh, yeah, and how many then departments that affects because it's being approached especially in this context more from like a comedy aspect.

[31:04] Sadie Jennings: Oh, we're changing this.

[31:05] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, yeah for the laugh.

[31:09] Sadie Jennings: But then that has a ripple effect to sound and they're speaking five extra words. So I can't turn their mic off at the point that I have for the last two weeks sort of thing. And that's definitely something that I have enjoyed remembering and learning from her and this process because in some of the shows before it doesn't change as frequently. So you forget to then go. Oh, yes, and that's the next level.

[31:41] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[31:42] Sadie Jennings: I remember speaking to Helen actually because she came up to me once and I was like what happened to the queue there and she was like, oh you didn't say the line. I was like, oh yeah, I just improvised something and she was like, yeah.

[31:50] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[31:50] Sadie Jennings: So that word in that line is the key for this thing and I was like, oh, okay. So she was like say whatever you want.

[31:55] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, the second I hear that word I'm going to fire that queue and I went okay good to know and then because it was at the start we were like writing down everything and making sure every word was right. But the second you put us in front of an audience, it's like we're going to play with the rhythm and see what's funny and then actually yeah just being as an actor being reminded for being like we've got to the point now. It's like don't care what you do. But when you say this, this is going to happen. I go great. I know that like that's and so we're kind of sort of obviously not learning the book in the same way, but we're learning where the queues are so we can play around within the queues which is fun.

[32:27] James Goldsworthy: The first time, I have to go throw Adam under the bus here. He won't mind. The first time Adam went on as, oh we were rehearsing Adam into track one or two, which one is it?

[32:38] Sadie Jennings: Track one.

[32:39] James Goldsworthy: Track one. Couldn't remember then. Because Adam had been on as Woodbead a lot.

[32:43] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[32:45] James Goldsworthy: He was a bit later in the game going on in that track which involves the massage bed.

[32:50] Sadie Jennings: Yes.

[32:50] James Goldsworthy: And I just loved a moment when he looked at Helen and said, oh, it's all right. I can't quite remember the lines but I'll busk it. Are any of them queue lines? And she just went yes, all of them.

[32:58] Sadie Jennings: Yes, I remember that.

[33:00] James Goldsworthy: I remember that. Look at his little face. It was just like, okay, when Adam stops talking, you can get the next one. That will be the new girl.

[33:08] Sadie Jennings: Oh, bless him.

[33:09] James Goldsworthy: Fair play to him. He smashed it.

[33:10] Sadie Jennings: He did it and he did know them. But it was just his hope that they weren't queue lines.

[33:14] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[33:14] Sadie Jennings: It's also, yeah, Adam's a fantastic one because he'll just be like, yeah, I've got it. And then you'll get halfway through and he'll be like, no, you don't get it. You haven't got it. And he'll be like, no, no, no, should we take a minute?

[33:24] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, let's learn it.

[33:25] Sadie Jennings: Bless him. And, sorry, you go.

[33:27] James Goldsworthy: No, I was just going to say that is also the fun part of when you get too comfortable with what you guys are doing or what we're doing that it doesn't have to be as rigid as well. Because your improvised moments, your little corpses or whatever is also what makes it fun.

[33:44] Sadie Jennings: We never want to get to the stage that it's so paint by numbers or that we also can't adapt to things because I suppose we have to in case things go wrong.

[34:00] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, and I think that's true. This sort of is a theme runs through, as you were saying, in terms of the collaboration and the amount of voices. But, yeah, it's a thing that starts in the rehearsal room and kind of makes its way even to now. Like, every Friday we have conversations about changing lines and stuff. And I think we've now learned the process of being like, okay, let's just double check with whoever's on the book to make sure we're not going to f*** anyone up if we do this, which is a new thing for us because the show is so, like, cue heavy.

[34:27] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, it's a very busy show.

[34:30] James Goldsworthy: But I like those Fridays with the little lines changes. I think it's interesting to see what kind of Hen and Henry or anyone else has come up with.

[34:39] Sadie Jennings: And one of them that came from that circle, the kind of parish notices discussion, I think it's really funny.

[34:48] James Goldsworthy: Which one?

[34:48] Sadie Jennings: The bang, bang, woo.

[34:49] James Goldsworthy: Oh, yeah, bang, bang, woo. Yeah, yeah.

[34:51] Sadie Jennings: And that was just people pitching in. Just silly ideas.

[34:54] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, Henry said, oh, we're going to cut this line and everyone was like, oh, we really liked that one. And we'd replace it with something. And then you kind of collaboratively came up with that and then it got a big laugh.

[35:03] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, and sometimes we really strike gold and sometimes it's like, I remember we asked Byron to try a new line once and he did it. And I came back and I was like, Byron. And he went, yeah, swing and a miss.

[35:13] James Goldsworthy: Just like went on for his scene.

[35:15] Sadie Jennings: There was one of Janet's lines that we tried for one night.

[35:21] James Goldsworthy: And then the next day everyone just went.

[35:23] Sadie Jennings: Which one was that?

[35:24] James Goldsworthy: It was about her bunions.

[35:26] Sadie Jennings: Oh, the dunk my bunions thing.

[35:27] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, there was one before.

[35:29] Sadie Jennings: Blitz my corns.

[35:30] James Goldsworthy: Oh, no, there was. There was one we tried for one night.

[35:33] Sadie Jennings: Blitz my corns, dunk my bunions.

[35:35] James Goldsworthy: And it almost got a groan because it was a bit too visceral.

[35:38] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, I think I've deleted it, but I do remember that.

[35:41] James Goldsworthy: Nancy just gets to leave the scene and you were left.

[35:43] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, she was like, how was that? And I was like, awful. I was just sat in the sourness of your gag.

[35:51] James Goldsworthy: It was horrible.

[35:52] Sadie Jennings: But yeah, that is, I suppose that is really fun. And like, actually, the thing that I'm always impressed by with you guys, actually, particularly backstage is just the change between just like the downtime where actually there's particularly during like the hotel sequence in the Bamberg. There's probably, it feels very relaxed backstage. There isn't too many cues. There's stuff to keep an eye on. But then going from that kind of like downtime to just like the full throttle scene changes, particularly in act two. Just kind of how organised everyone is, is always so impressive.

[36:23] James Goldsworthy: I think it's one of my favourite things is when you, for instance, in tech, there's a lift shaft sequence or a lift sequence, which we teched a lot because throughout previews, we were making changes to it. And it involves everybody. Every person in stage management, every crew, even the cast are helping at points to get it set up and then to strike it involves everybody. And when you're first doing it in tech or in previews and you've got like a goal of how long you need to be and you think, okay, we're going to keep working at this and we will hit it. And then once you've, you're in that sequence and everyone knows what they're doing and you know where you're going and you run it's time and you're done before you need to be. And that's really satisfying. And it comes from just doing it over and over and over.

[37:08] Dave Hearn: You can enjoy it a lot more because it's like, and now I step here to get out. I remember in one of those actually, because we fly in like the front cloth to cover the scene change. And I remember it flew out, you know, you had two minutes or something, or 90 seconds or whatever it was, and it flew out on 90 seconds and it was all done. And then I remember speaking to Helen in the break, and I was like, how quick is stage management doing that bit? And she was like, oh yeah, they were done well before. And I was like, fly out the cloth as soon as they're ready. She went, what? And I went, don't wait for night, because we're just making, like we were just improvising out front. I was like, we're dying on our arses out there, trying to like buy time.

And you guys are doing it like, wait. And I was like, and I remember speaking to you about it and you were like, oh yeah, it's done in like a quarter of the time that we were doing it in tech. And then I spoke to Matty and he was like, oh yeah, no, no, you should be flying it out whenever you're ready. But I remember Helen being like, oh, okay, that's new, write that down. But it's weird, obviously, as an actor, that feels like a really obvious thing. But she doesn't know. She's like, yeah, maybe you've got a 90 second scene. And like, equally, what could happen is... What's Dave's bit today? Yeah, I could be doing a bit and then she flies something out halfway through a bit. I'm like, what are you doing? You've just ruined my joke. So she's just doing what she's told. But yeah, those bits are the most satisfying, I imagine.

[38:22] Sadie Jennings: We did discuss a full musical number for Nancy at that point. Yes, that was on the cards. That could be our cover. Just because we weren't sure how long that was going to take. Oh, I remember that. That was so fun. I remember in another show, I did Grown Ups, where there was a big scene change. And the director asked me to come out. I had a very small part in it. I sort of started the top of the show as a headteacher talking to the students as a school. Sorry, talking to the audience if there were students at school, and then a smaller part in Act Two. And in between the scene change, she said, can you come out as the headteacher and just do some business while covering the scene change? And I went, okay, how long for?

And she was like, the fastest we've done it is just under three minutes. And I went, you want me to do three minutes of improvised business with the audience? She was like, you don't have to, we can just like pause the show. And I was like, no, no, no, I'll come out. And me and Bri went out, I just did. And by the end, we had a type five. And then we had like...

[39:20] Dave Hearn: You'd increased it by two minutes.

[39:21] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, we had a type five. And I was like, no, guys, we're putting more business here. And then we ended up like refining the jokes. And then we cut it down and we sort of matched it. And then the whole thing got changed to like this big 90s Megamix, where you saw the scene change happen, which was much better. But yeah, that was one of the weirdest things I've ever been asked to do in Mischief, was like come out as a headteacher and improvise.

[39:42] James Goldsworthy: Just bump.

[39:43] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. Well, that is one of the things that I've enjoyed over the process the most as well, is like, seeing what's stuck and what's landed that wasn't necessarily even in rehearsals. Like some of the jokes and some of the, you know, rule of three that suddenly appeared in the show as ongoing themes, like weren't in there until previews or something like I feel like the pigeon made quite a late appearance. Like I don't think the pigeon has a prominent role as they ended up having in the show. And I think the spleen stuff, it's one of the biggest laughs now, but it wasn't like...

[40:23] Dave Hearn: Well, that was quite recent in sort of, yeah, like it wasn't, we'd been running for a little while. But yeah, it's interesting, like that kind of stuff, what sticks out for an audience, certainly, where you're like, oh, they've really just like got on board with the spleen thing.

[40:36] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. So let's do a couple more spleen gags.

[40:39] James Goldsworthy: And it really works.

[40:40] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. And it's very strange. I think it's also quite humbling as well, though, because Mischief creates such a like, great atmosphere for everyone to collaborate, that you feel like you can do it too. And then it helps you remember that you're not an amazing comedian when your suggestions aren't being taken. It's like, oh, the line change could be this. No, it's not made it in. Oh, interesting. You only put Dave's ones in. Maybe that's because it was funny. We'll give it a go. We should give everything a go, though. I feel like now it's like if anyone has a joke, we had it on Bank Robber. We had a few guys from Front of House suggest some stuff and some of it's made it in. Then I was like, yeah, let's give that a go.

[41:23] Dave Hearn: OK, so it is just my stuff.

[41:25] James Goldsworthy: It is just yours.

[41:26] Sadie Jennings: Oh yeah, the spleen, all me.

[41:28] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[41:29] Dave Hearn: No, absolutely not. There was a moment last week that we've got the Dummies replica Dave's backstage for some of the bits that happen and more of the flying through the windows that for whatever reason, I decided to hide underneath one and also look like a splayed corpse because I was doing my job properly. Not distracted in any way. And I remember Shields just kind of came over and was like, what is this for? But it was the way that he didn't even ask, why are you doing this? It was the phrasing of what is it? It was like, couldn't you even imagine that it was for humour and entertaining you? It was like, no, this is just like...

[42:15] Sadie Jennings: All you're doing is showing you've lost your mind.

[42:17] Dave Hearn: And I mean, he wasn't wrong, but it was still a bit like...

[42:21] Sadie Jennings: What is this for? When I feel like sometimes stage manager's role is to uplift and keep people entertained backstage.

[42:28] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, yeah.

[42:29] Sadie Jennings: It's hard to do in this case when the people you're trying to entertain are comedians who have been doing it for like 20 years or whatever.

[42:38] Dave Hearn: Well, I appreciate it. Just know that I appreciate it. Now, I'm going to have to wrap this up in a minute. But before we do that, I've kind of got two questions floating around in my head. The first one is, Sadie, you made some notes. We've got to see what sort of notes.

[42:49] Sadie Jennings: Oh, no, no, it's not good.

[42:50] Dave Hearn: What was the notes?

[42:53] Sadie Jennings: Okay, so I listen to a lot of podcasts and I always get annoyed at people that A, haven't listened to the podcast they're going on. And B, aren't prepared. James, have you ever seen?

[43:01] James Goldsworthy: Every episode.

[43:02] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, yeah.

[43:02] Dave Hearn: This is the most stage manager approach to a podcast I've ever seen.

[43:08] Sadie Jennings: I'm fully aware. What have you got on there? Come on.

[43:10] Sadie Jennings: I just took the email that Harry sent saying, this is the kind of thing as we're going to chat. And then I made little bullet points so that if I ran out of things to say, I had ideas.

[43:21] Dave Hearn: Okay.

[43:21] Sadie Jennings: It includes mischief or a lovely bunch of humans.

[43:24] Dave Hearn: Wow.

[43:24] Sadie Jennings: That's written as a...

[43:25] Dave Hearn: That's what they forced you to say.

[43:28] Sadie Jennings: They made me type it against my will.

[43:31] Dave Hearn: And more people falling out of windows.

[43:34] Sadie Jennings: Okay, I see it. This is great. Collaborative process, rhythm and pacing.

[43:41] Dave Hearn: These are all really good. Comedy is dependent on rhythm and pacing.

[43:43] Sadie Jennings: Are there any bad things on there?

[43:46] James Goldsworthy: Run tech, coordinate scene changes, keep people safe.

[43:50] Sadie Jennings: Having writers in the show.

[43:51] James Goldsworthy: It's different, yeah.

[43:52] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, yeah. There's a difference between like mischief and a, you know, your kind of standard show. You've got Helen Henry in it and all of you in it, which is why we're still doing those changes on a Friday.

[44:01] Dave Hearn: Yeah, this is very... I love that, James.

[44:04] Sadie Jennings: I, yeah.

[44:05] James Goldsworthy: Sorry, this is why I'm assistant.

[44:06] Sadie Jennings: That's why you're assistant to the stage manager.

[44:08] James Goldsworthy: I'm not ready. I'm not ready.

[44:10] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. And my final question was probably more of a, I was going to say a political one, but not in terms of like politics, politics, but more like, do you think there is a shortage of stage managers or a shortage of people wanting to be stage managers? And if so, why?

[44:24] James Goldsworthy: I think there's a lack of access. It's quite a hard thing to get into. You either have to, you have to go through drama school, which is expensive, or you just have to start out at the bottom and work your way up.

[44:39] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[44:39] James Goldsworthy: Which you have to live off very little money. So I think there's a lack of access for people. I think more people would do it if they could. I think people don't know it exists as well.

[44:49] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[44:50] James Goldsworthy: I think a lot of people, if there was more education about the roles in theatre.

[44:55] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[44:55] James Goldsworthy: You might have more people.

[44:56] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, that's true, because like at school, drama was acting. Like I'm one of those cliche, like originally wanted to be an actor kind of thing and then found backstage. But that's because they didn't teach.

[45:09] James Goldsworthy: You didn't start.

[45:10] Sadie Jennings: Or backstage.

[45:11] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[45:12] Sadie Jennings: Yeah. Crew, stage management, sound, lighting wasn't really drama at school. It was just the Shakespeare acting and monologues and things.

[45:20] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[45:20] Sadie Jennings: Well, hopefully this kind of, these kind of conversations will go somewhere. Like if our fans are listening to it, like understanding that so much of what they see on stage, probably half of it is happening off stage in some way, like just for it to happen. Like we're delivering the lines and delivering the jokes. But like.

[45:36] James Goldsworthy: And I mean, we've probably only mentioned 20% of it as well, because there's so many of the departments that aren't represented here.

[45:43] Sadie Jennings: Oh, yeah.

[45:45] James Goldsworthy: We're talking about the things that happen daily with each show.

[45:49] Sadie Jennings: Daily with each show now in the building. But so much happened before we even got to rehearsals or preview or design and all of that. But yeah, I suppose, yeah, it's just making people aware of it. And then that will drive people towards it. Because some people might love theatre, but just not want to be on stage.

[46:07] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, that's exactly me.

[46:09] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[46:09] Sadie Jennings: I love being in theatre. I love the creative process, especially like the opening night of a show. You get, I think backstage, you get just the same rush as the people on stage. But I absolutely do not want to be on the stage.

[46:20] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, which is fair enough.

[46:21] Sadie Jennings: Oh, well, that's where we slightly differ.

[46:24] Dave Hearn: I will never actually do it. But there's a little part that's always like, but if Woodbeed can't go on today, then how many of his lines do I actually know?

[46:34] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, that would be very cool. Can I have a cameo when it's filmed or something?

[46:38] James Goldsworthy: You can be Gladys.

[46:39] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[46:40] Dave Hearn: I don't know if Adam or whoever would give it up.

[46:44] James Goldsworthy: I don't know if Byron or Dish would give it up.

[46:44] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, they're very protective.

[46:46] Dave Hearn: And my final question in closing it is, who would you spy on in Mischief, if you could? They would never know that you've spied on them.

[46:56] Sadie Jennings: Not in like a creepy way.

[46:58] James Goldsworthy: That's your choice.

[47:00] Sadie Jennings: If you want to, if you want to spy on them in a creepy way?

[47:02] James Goldsworthy: No.

[47:03] Sadie Jennings: No, good. Okay. That's the correct answer.

[47:05] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. Okay, I'll have a think. I think, again, in a non-creepy way, Chris Leask.

[47:14] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[47:14] James Goldsworthy: I think there's like a charming chaos to Chris.

[47:18] Sadie Jennings: It's so chaotic.

[47:20] James Goldsworthy: So chaotic. And I want to see if that, like, if he's at home on his own, is it that level of chaos still?

[47:26] Sadie Jennings: I've lived with him for like three months, and there's carnage.

[47:29] James Goldsworthy: Yeah. I think there's an added element to that that I'd enjoy, which is to see where Sergei ends and Chris, like, begins.

[47:38] Sadie Jennings: It's the accent that's the only difference.

[47:41] James Goldsworthy: You see, I think there's still a chance that if we spied on him at home, he just talks like that sometimes anyway.

[47:46] Sadie Jennings: Oh, 100%. I've never known a man who was nervous.

[47:48] James Goldsworthy: And not even because he's now doing that role. Like, he was doing that before Sergei existed. And then he just kind of, like, stepped into the rehearsal room and now...

[47:57] Sadie Jennings: It's just, he's built this character and he's like, oh, I can do my Russian guy.

[48:01] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, did he suggest the Russians to the Henry?

[48:04] Sadie Jennings: There you go.

[48:04] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, he probably did. Chris Leask is proven popular.

[48:09] Sadie Jennings: Oh, really?

[48:10] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, Chris Leask. Quite a few people have said Greg.

[48:13] Sadie Jennings: Yeah.

[48:14] James Goldsworthy: Just because Greg is so lovely. And we're like, what else is going on there, Greg? Come on. Like, is he a real spy? He's so calm.

[48:21] Sadie Jennings: Like, I don't know.

[48:23] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, you're like...

[48:23] Sadie Jennings: Maybe he's the opposite. Maybe at home, he's like Chris.

[48:26] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, where's the chaos?

[48:27] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, yeah. And then Chris is just so calm and still at home.

[48:30] James Goldsworthy: Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, so we'd have to spy on both of them.

[48:33] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, but you could, yeah, you could report back to each other. You know, one could spy on Greg, one could spy on Chris. Although, do we steal your answer? What were you going to, were you going to say something?

[48:41] Dave Hearn: No, I'm, I mean, I think everyone's interesting. I'm trying to think of something different if Chris and Greg are so...

[48:48] James Goldsworthy: No, well, mine was Jono. But there's, you know, there's a reason for Chris and Greg, you know.

[48:52] Sadie Jennings: Oh, you want to say Dave?

[48:54] Dave Hearn: I want to say Dave. That's what it is.

[48:56] Sadie Jennings: No one ever says me, and I wonder if it's because I'm here.

[48:58] James Goldsworthy: Yeah.

[48:58] Dave Hearn: Okay, well, I'm going to say Dave.

[49:00] Sadie Jennings: Oh, wow.

[49:01] Dave Hearn: Okay, I'll set up the GoPro.

[49:03] Sadie Jennings: Yeah, perfect. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think it would be, I'd love to spy on you, Dave.

[49:10] Dave Hearn: Thank you, I appreciate that. What, what hour of the day would best be to spy on you?

[49:16] Dave Hearn: And I'm going to end the podcast there. Thank you very much for listening. This has been Mischief Makers. With me, Dave Hearn, Sadie and James. Good night.