This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jayke Workman: What's up everybody? My name is Jayke Workman and this is Oh My Pod U Guys, a musical theatre and pop culture podcast. You guys, welcome to the pod. I am so, so excited to share that I have officially implemented video into the pod universe. And thank heavens because look how cute it is for the listeners at home, for the people who are just listening and not watching. We have our gorgeous little neon sign, we have our green couch with our pink pillows. It's giving something. Let me just say that. It's giving profesh. It's giving podcast. Welcome you guys. I'm so, so excited to share that moving forward, I will be having video episodes in addition to the audio episodes. So if you want more than just the audio, you can find video.

Actually on Spotify, they are beta testing a really amazing new video podcast platform on their site. And then I'm also going to be putting the episodes on YouTube and I'll be sharing some highlights and clips on TikTok and Reels. So we are hitting the ground running. 2025 is going to be the year of video for Oh My Pod and I am so excited. And I'm very excited that moving forward, I will also have a lot of guests in person recording with me. So it's going to be so much fun. So stay tuned for that. And thank you all for being on this pod journey with me. I honestly cannot believe that we've even reached 99 episodes or something crazy like that. So yeah, it's gonna be really fun. I'm excited for episode 100 and the hundreds to come.

I'm already tired. Um, you guys with that we have to dive right into this week's Broadway World recap brought to you by my amazing pals at BroadwayWorld.com. First, you guys Broadway World shared the crazy announcement that swept away on Broadway has actually pushed their closing date to December 29, which we just you know, got the report that they were going to be shut down very, very soon then due to popular demand and people buying tickets and saying this is ridiculous. They have pushed their closing date two extra weeks to December 29, which is really cool. I'm excited for them. I'm glad that everybody involved gets two more weeks to do the show and two more weeks of employment. I do think it's kind of insane that this has happened and that people's backlash has actually affected the way that box offices are selling tickets.

But it did. So who's to say what that means for the future of other shows? When you know, your closing announcements come out and how people respond to them. But yeah, congratulations to everybody in swept away. I am glad that this means that I will have the chance to see it before, you know, the crazy holidays and everything. So yeah. Next, you guys. We got the crazy kooky announcement that Miss Trisha Paytas, YouTuber, podcaster, pop culture icon is set to make her Broadway debut in a one night only show called Trisha Paytas's Big Broadway Dream. It's going to play a one night engagement at the St. James Theatre. And while I recognize that this is unorthodox and strange, I have to say that I'm kind of excited about this because of what it could potentially bring to Broadway.

Obviously, people in the Broadway community were rather up in arms about this announcement because it does feel like it's the type of thing where you could just buy your way into Broadway or use your celebrity to basically do whatever you want when there are people who have worked their entire lives and dedicated everything to the craft and to get to this place and to work in New York City and on Broadway shows. But I do think conversely, there is a side of this that could expose the world of Broadway to an entirely new audience. And I think that it will also maybe entice potential producers to reconsider what they have previously produced and what they might want to put their money towards in the future.

And I don't know, I think it's just a cool, I mean, it's crazy. It's so strange, but it's also a Broadway show and people are going to be employed because of it. And I just think also Trisha Paytas is wacko, cuckoo bananas in the best way. And she has always loved and supported the gays. She's always loved and supported theater and the arts. So why not, Trisha? Oh my God, Trisha Paytas, come on the pod. Let's talk Broadway, Trisha Paytas, come. Trish, let's do it. Let's do it. But yeah, so congratulations to Trish. That's exciting. And lastly, you guys, friend of the pod, Miss Marsha, Marsha, Marsha, Marty Louder, themself, did a really fun feature with Broadway World, just like as a fun interview about like their process and what they do backstage at Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club on Broadway.

And they share some really sweet moments and must-haves backstage. I just love Marty and it was so fun to have them on the pod. So definitely check out that article on BroadwayWorld.com. And you guys, this has been the Broadway World Recap. Oh my pod, you guys, I am so excited to welcome my next guest to the show. She is a star of the stage and screen, currently starring in the smash hit Broadway play, Oh Mary. It's Bianca Leigh. Welcome to the pod.

[6:41] Bianca Leigh: Thank you, Jayke. Really lovely to be here. Thank you very much.

[6:45] Jayke Workman: Yes, I'm so, so excited to chat with you. But before we dive into everything, I always ask, where are you calling in from on this fine day?

[6:53] Bianca Leigh: I am in the East Village of Manhattan.

[6:57] Jayke Workman: New York City girl. Where are you?

[7:01] Bianca Leigh: I'm Upper West Side.

[7:03] Jayke Workman: Yes. Oh, I've been here for a year or two. I've been here for a long time.

[7:09] Bianca Leigh: I love it. Well, thank you so much for being here. I have followed you and your work for quite some time. And I was so, so beyond thrilled to finally get to see you on stage in Oh Mary. But before we talk about Oh Mary, I would love to hear about your road to your Broadway debut doing The Nap at MTC. Was that your first, like, actual Broadway credit?

[7:39] Bianca Leigh: The first time I was on a Broadway stage, we did a concert of Tales of the City the Musical at the Music Box.

[7:50] Jayke Workman: The Music Box. That's right.

[7:52] Bianca Leigh: Yes. And because I had done a New York workshop and a San Francisco workshop. And then they did a production at ACT and it didn't make it into the Broadway pipeline. But I believe it was Betsy Wolfe that was like, we are going to do this on Broadway, even if it's a one night concert. And I believe she arranged everything. And we had a wonderful time. And that was my first time on a Broadway stage. And I remember I was in the wings with everyone and Armistead Maupin was right next to me. And I was so excited because I love the piece and I love the music. Jake Shears and Stephen Aramis was the musical director and Jason Moore was the director. It was just a fantastic cast. And I loved doing it.

And of course, it was like, I'm going to be stepping onto a Broadway stage. This is a part of the business where a lot of queer people and definitely trans people were not welcome for many, many years. And so it was a big deal. And I'm in the wings and I'm looking, I'm like, okay, these are wings. And these are black. And that's a stage and that's an audience. And as thrilled as I was, it was a wonderful reminder that it's a theater. It's a theater. There's theater all over the country, all over the world. And I love being on Broadway and I love doing The Nap and I love doing Oh Mary, but theater is everywhere. And so we went out and we did it. And Justin Vivian Bond played Anna Madrigal and she was magical, unbelievable.

[10:04] Jayke Workman: Amazing. It's so exciting to hear, you know, someone who has worked for so long in this industry, not just on stage, but also in TV film, to sort of share that sort of universal experience of like, regardless of if it's on some sort of quote unquote level that is Broadway or whatever, it's all the same. The craft is the same. What we're hoping to do is inspire audiences and make people think. And so that's just so lovely that you had that moment for yourself of like, I'm on Broadway. Yes. This is like, you know, what we think of as like the pinnacle of it all. But yes, I've been here before and I'll be here long after this, regardless of if it's here.

[10:49] Bianca Leigh: Yeah. I mean, it is. I mean, it is thrilling. And I'd always seen it and heard it spoken about strictly in terms of prestige. But it's also, I mean, it's the amount of people in the audience.

[11:09] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[11:10] Bianca Leigh: The biggest difference. I've been on lots of stages in different parts of the country and some very small. I used to sing on a tiny little platform at the Stonewall.

[11:21] Jayke Workman: Yes!

[11:22] Bianca Leigh: So, you know, I did that for a long time. I mean, I made my living singing in bars and nightclubs for several years.

[11:33] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[11:34] Bianca Leigh: And anyway, so all sizes and all shapes and in the round and outside and traditional prosceniums. But it is really thrilling when you go out and there's like over 900 people laughing at your joke.

[11:54] Jayke Workman: I mean, you are experiencing it in real time. The being in this play. I mean, we must talk about Oh Mary being sort of this like runaway success story. You were part of the original Off-Broadway company and then transferred to Broadway. And now you guys are playing the oldest, the most historic Broadway theatre there is, which is just incredible. Talk about the jump from Off-Broadway to playing the Lyceum. Like, did you when you did it Off-Broadway? Well, and I guess before then, like when you first were presented with this piece of work, did you know that it was going to have the life that it has had?

[12:38] Bianca Leigh: No, and yes. I mean, I was offered the developmental table read, which we did in the CAA offices with Sam and with Cole and with the producers in February of 2023. And I knew there was definitely something special. I didn't know how special. You know, you first look at it, you first read it or you first watch it and you're like, oh, here's this kind of kooky offbeat humor. Yeah. And you don't realize that it is actually structured beautifully, masterfully, like a puzzle. Yes. And there's a reason for everything that happens. And everything comes together. There's nothing really extraneous. There is a lot of what Cole would call stupidity, you know, and I like it because.

[14:05] Bianca Leigh: You're inundated with fart jokes. And within that, you don't see it coming. But there are moments of really beautifully crafted language. And the pain and the beauty of being a human being. And at the heart of the play, it does hit you right over the head. And it's quick. And then we go back to the fart jokes. There actually are not any actual fart jokes. But you know what I mean? Yes, yes, of course. You know, the clowning and the outrageousness and yes, the stupidity, the stupidity of it all. But it's you said it so perfectly that like, it does all of a sudden out of nowhere hit you. And you're like, Whoa, I thought that we were just watching this, like ridiculous, you know, tomfoolery happening.

But there's like real sentiment and there's real sort of like tact in what we are exploring. It's just it's so brilliant. I, I also, I mean, I actually had Miss Peter Smith on the podcast. And we were talking about how I remember seeing the show advertised off Broadway, and then it being announced for Broadway. And I felt such a sense of pride, even though I have no part of it. It was just like this, this like thing about like being a queer non-binary person and seeing a queer non-binary person and like a cast of trans people on stage doing a show that has nothing to do with that or we're not commenting on that was just like a such a heartening reminder that in this crazy industry and in the world of like commercial theatre and making money and everything, there can still be queer art in the mainstream.

It's just so thrilling. I would love to know like, have you found the experience of playing Louise, playing Mary Chaperone, heartening in in ways that, you know, you might not have anticipated, because it's not a role that you have to comment on your trans identity in?

[16:33] Bianca Leigh: What is this trans that you're talking about? I've never heard of such thing. What is this? What is this? I keep hearing this. It's in the zeitgeist. Several glass ceilings were broken.

[16:50] Bianca Leigh: Yes. And the main one was, up until a few years ago, this play would not have been allowed above 14th Street or any play like it, you know, which is why, you know, we started at the Lorto. The Lorto was perfect for this fabulous, camp, queer thing. And obviously, we sold out. People couldn't get tickets. And I knew then when people could not get tickets, there's money to be made. And somebody's gonna want to make it. Period. So it was time. You never really know when the time is. You never know when it's time, when the ceiling will be broken. And when it happened, it was almost as if it just felt really right. And to be honest, it's kind of like, I know that the cast, and especially Cole and I, we honor the tradition.

We honor, you know, we know whose shoulders we stand upon. Sure. And I know Cole really does. And one of the first nights, maybe it was the dress rehearsal, I'm sure, Charles Bush was in the audience. And when we took our bows, Cole stopped and said, hang on, we have to introduce, you know, the mother of us all. But on the other hand, when talking about O'Mary, they don't use the C word. Nobody calls it camp anymore. Queer, a lot. But basically, it's its own phenomenon.

[19:03] Bianca Leigh: Yes. And which is great, because you want to acknowledge your roots and the style and the tradition, but you don't want to be kept in a box at the same time. So yes, I think so for the show, we broke the 14th Street thing. I mean, Charles Bush had a play on Broadway, but it wasn't starring Charles Bush, you know, as a female character. And maybe it was like Linda Lavin. And, you know, it was more of a traditional Broadway comedy. And so this was, you know, everything in the kitchen sink. So it was obviously time. It was time. On the red carpet, a lot of the reporters were asking, what are people going to think? And how are the tourists going to react? And my reaction was, you know, there's been adult comedy on Broadway since the very beginning. Let's step back a little before, you know, Mae West wrote a play in 1927 called Sex.

[20:17] Bianca Leigh: Talk about mother. And then she wrote a play called The Drag. And they were both brought, you know, she was a Broadway playwright. And of course, there were there were scandals. And, you know, she was arrested at one point. But it's not completely new, you know, I know, of course, when I say it was like, when Mae West did something like that, it was, it was still sort of through the lens of a white heterosexual woman, you know, I think I, you know, I, we did a reading of The Drag at the center. And Everett was part of it and Brian Bilevich. And the scenes where all the drag queens come in and, you know, they're carrying on. And I'm like, this is still going on. Today, same, these same barbs are still happening in the dressing room of Lips restaurant to this day. So she, she definitely got a lot of it really, right. Yes. But there's always that through the lens of that slight, even with the best of intentions, there's sort of a slight othering.

[21:41] Bianca Leigh: Othering. Yes. You know, of course. And I think with Mary, it's not about titillation. It's the characters and who they are, and we are who we are, and take it or leave it, baby. You know, that Abraham Lincoln is carrying on, but it's not judged. It's not othered. And so for me personally, oh God, I'm really going on and on. For me personally, that's the point of the podcast, darling. That's true. For me personally, my journey has been, you know, I'm a, I'm an actress and I want to play all sorts of roles. You know, I did not train and work so hard to play this tragic trans trope over and over and always. Yep. And I don't even really like when it's always the storyline, you know, and it's like, I transitioned.

I transitioned. It's done. I know. I, you know, I'm done and I don't want to keep saying these same lines about the struggle. We do need to talk about it, of course, but we also need to have trans characters that are living their best life. Because that's the reality of you.

[23:27] Bianca Leigh: Well, I do some sensitivity trainings and some presentations at medical schools around the city. Don't ask how I fell into that. But the first thing I start with, with these students is, well, the first thing I say is start paying your student loans right away. And they always laugh because they're like, you know, you think, you know, a compound interest is, but you don't. Trust me, you really don't. But I also say before we talk about the challenges of being trans, um, please know that we do transition and we can and often do go on to lead full, productive lives and lives that are happy, joyous and free. Yes. You know, and, uh, you know, the whole thing. We weren't created in a test tube. We have families, we have friends, we have, uh, you know, we're artistic collaborators and we're part of the community.

We're your neighbors, we're your friends, we're family. It's just what they've done is this sort of like these, those people, you know, but for me, I think I seek characters that are not necessarily trans or cis, you know? So Louise is probably a cisgender woman. I mean, she is a cisgender woman because in earlier iterations of the script, she mentioned that she's married with children. Um, but that has more to do with the time period, you know?

[25:24] Bianca Leigh: Oh my God, I'm so sorry. No, you're so right. Um, the roles that I seek are what I call non trans specific. So if it's a bitchy fashion editor or a quirky coroner on a crime procedural or whatever, these things that I'm drawn to, give me the role and I'll do it. And then upon viewing, if the audience doesn't read trans, great. If the audience does read trans, great. Yes. So that it doesn't matter. I don't want to say I only want to play cisgender roles. I'm not saying that at all. Sure. What I'm saying is I want to play more roles where it doesn't matter and it's not central to the script. Yes. And you know, that's what I mean. You know, we get into this because we want to explore different kinds of lives and things and we just don't want to be, you know, a professional whatever.

And I'm sure it's true of gay male actors and lesbian actors and non-binary actors. For sure. Do you feel beautiful on stage as Louise in that enormous gown? Like what is that stamina even like? You are like carrying pounds of petticoats while you are running around in that dress.

[26:55] Bianca Leigh: Well, I do. I do feel I feel beautiful in a way that my character is in contrast to Mary. So Mary is to me the shape-shifting, time-traveling, demon, alien, angel, trickster. Like she's all over the place. She's Wednesday Adams in the 19th century. Yes. And Louise is supposed to be the polar opposite. Louise is blonde and she's pastels and her hoop skirt is wider and longer and she's corseted more tightly. She's supposed to be the polar opposite but also the exemplary of a lady of 19. So I do feel that. I sort of feel that stature. I feel the stature and the grace and I do feel beautiful. I mean, you know, and feminine. But you mentioned that. So we have the hoop skirts downtown but they were somewhat lighter because the hoops were of a different material, of a lighter material.

[28:10] Bianca Leigh: I mean, I tripped a few times, Cole tripped a couple of times. A couple of times we got caught in the door. Yes. And it was a learning curve, but we got it. You know, we got it. We learned how to do it. One of the biggest tricks is you have to stand completely straight when you walk. So, because if you tilt even one degree you trip on the hem of the skirt. Right, yeah. So that's one of the reasons why these ladies because they know if they tilt, you know and that's why when they run they pick it up. Yes. Because the air will, you know, blow the skirt under your feet if you start running. So that's why you pick it up. And it's very dramatic, but there's a very practical reason you're getting it the fuck up.

Is that sad? No, please, more. You're getting it out. You're getting it the fuck out of the way. Get that skirt out of the way. It's almost like you're lady, lady, lady and then something tragic happens. You're like, come on. God damn it. Long boring story. So when we moved uptown the hoops were made of metal and mine was wider much bigger, much heavier. And during the tag on the preview I was throwing my back I threw my back out in like three different places over tech and previews and I was like, this is for the birds. And the costume was much stiffer and I was sitting in the wings you know, that first tech day and I wasn't used to it and the stiff bodice and this giant thing and I'm sitting and they have this long bench for me to sit on and someone said, oh, you're in between scenes you're checking someone else's scene and someone said, oh, Conrad's in that so why don't you go sit with Conrad?

And I'm like, how? I can't get through that door. I couldn't sit in the theater. What are you doing? I felt like I couldn't even move, you know and the physical therapist, the PT said you need to do strength training. And I got it. I really, you know, I've always been I've always been physically active but I took it very seriously and you know, we now have our own dressing rooms and I was like, I got in there I get in early and it's like squats. Okay. I do a shit load of squats. I do planks. I do stuff to strengthen my back and lots to strengthen my thighs and squats and squats and squats. Oh yeah. There are buns of steel under that hoop skirt. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I made that hoop skirt my bitch.

[31:12] Jayke Workman: Yeah, she did.

[31:13] Bianca Leigh: So it went from like, oh getting caught in the door and tripping on it to, oh, maybe I'll do a little flourish. Maybe I'll do a little maybe a little figure eight. Twirl. Do a little figure eight. Twirl. And I'd love running across the stage. You know, you got to be careful though. And once in a while, I will get caught in the door. The other night I got caught in the door when I came in and I didn't realize and I saw Cole look at my skirt in the door and I was like, oh my God, you saved my ass because I would have just started running toward Abraham Lincoln. So.

[32:00] Jayke Workman: Had you worked with Cole prior to this show?

[32:03] Bianca Leigh: I'd never even met Cole.

[32:04] Jayke Workman: No way.

[32:05] Bianca Leigh: That is so wild to me because the onstage chemistry and timing and rapport that you have is sort of unmatched. I mean, watching you two do the scenes together was like a comedy masterclass. It's just ridiculous. So how did you... Was that part of like the rehearsal and sort of like direction developmental process of finding that rhythm?

[32:30] Bianca Leigh: No. The focus was like in any play. I mean, the directorial was just trying to put this world into a frame and make it consistent and set the pace. I worked with Sam Pinkleton's husband, Andrew Russell, several times. So I consider Sam family, you know, colleague family. And then Henry Russell Bergstein, the casting director, I've auditioned for him a million times, so I thought it was them. I thought it was they. And, you know, we had the developmental table read and I knew something was very special, and especially because the producers in the room, I'm like, oh, this is going to happen, you know. And there was something very special. You just sense it. And then when we went into rehearsal in the La MaMa rehearsal studios, January 2nd of this year, you almost heard an audible click. It was like that. It was like, oh no, something is really right here. Something's really working.

[33:40] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[33:41] Bianca Leigh: It's the right script. It's the right cast. It's the right director. It's the right producers. It's the right theater, you know. I would run into Sam coming into rehearsal and be like, how are you? How are you? And Sam would say, I'm great. I feel like a piano is going to drop on my head any minute. And I said, yeah, I feel the same way. I'm like, this is going to be fabulous. This is everything I've wanted. I'm going to be hit by a bus.

[34:21] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[34:22] Bianca Leigh: It's just a little too good to be true. Yeah. No, I've got to be hit by, you know, or this is going to be the role of a lifetime, which means it'll be my last role. I think it's sort of this mental protection so that we don't go flying off into mania. But it is kind of weird. Like something wonderful happens and you're just like, but that's going to be it. And we went into the room and then, of course, we were at the Lortel and I was in the dressing room. We had skirts and trousers, dressing rooms. And I said to Hannah, our understudy, something, oh, you know, well, I know Sam. And I'm sure Sam was the one, you know. And Cole said, no, it was me. And I said, but Cole, we'd never met. And Cole said, I saw you in Transamerica when I was 18. And I've been following you ever since. And I said, what took you so fucking long?

[35:36] Bianca Leigh: You shape-shifting, trickster, demon angel, genius bastard. And I said, whoa. And then in interviews they've mentioned seeing me in The Lily's Revenge with Taylor Mac.

[36:43] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[36:45] Bianca Leigh: Did you see that?

[36:46] Jayke Workman: I didn't.

[36:48] Bianca Leigh: Five hours. You would have loved it.

[36:50] Jayke Workman: Wow.

[36:51] Bianca Leigh: Yes. So a play should be an hour and 20 minutes or five hours. No in between.

[36:58] Jayke Workman: No in between.

[36:59] Bianca Leigh: I mean, you've got to have a really good reason for anything being longer than an hour and a half, in my opinion.

[37:06] Jayke Workman: Absolutely.

[37:07] Bianca Leigh: A really damn good reason. But yeah, so I had heard of Cole because, you know, they made such a huge splash at Joe's Pub, you know. It was just like Mary Child Lincoln had this huge career in Cabaret, the neo-Cabaret, you know. So it was, you know, Justin Vivian Bond and Cole and Lady Rizzo and Bridget Everett. And they were taking Cabaret and turning on its head.

[38:01] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[38:02] Bianca Leigh: And it was great. I broke into Cabaret probably 10 years before that. And I did not turn it on its head. I turned it on to its stomach and I, no, no. Yeah. I mean, I had fun and I love riffing with the audience and, but I was very, I really liked standards. I didn't like to take standards or I, nobody was taking pop songs and making them into Cabaret medleys. No one's doing that. We're still doing the standards, which I loved. So, yes.

[38:40] Bianca Leigh: So we went into rehearsal and I knew it was important. And I have the utmost respect for playwrights. I mean, literally Cole wrote this script and starred in it. And handpicked, as far as I'm pretty sure, handpicked four notorious scene stealers, which shows a certain amount of confidence and smarts and grace and generosity. Like they pulled a cabernet.

[38:59] Jayke Workman: Cabernet was like, no, I'm going to hire you.

[39:04] Bianca Leigh: The whole thing would come up. I know it's probably in the very beginning. Um, Cause. I think Cola shy. I'm not sure. But I think call it, call, call is not someone to talk about themselves a lot. You know, there's nothing that's like, I don't want to talk about myself. I don't want to talk about myself. I don't want to talk about myself. I don't want to talk about myself. To talk about themselves a lot. You know, this is not a gregarious, but this is a very kind. Lovely. Beautiful person. But you know, isn't the typical actor. Hey, everybody. Let's go to lunch. You know?

[39:48] Bianca Leigh: Um, so I take it as. That they were kind of shy, you know? And, um, over time, you know, getting to know this person and that, and when someone's not like that, then when you do get to know them. It's so wonderful because you get to kind of know the real. You know what I mean? You don't have to wade through all that extraversion. Like obviously most.

[40:14] Jayke Workman: Um, whatever do you mean?

[40:17] Bianca Leigh: I'm a demure little tulip.

[40:18] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[40:19] Bianca Leigh: I'm a delicate flower myself.

[40:20] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[40:21] Bianca Leigh: We could be in the same garden.

[40:23] Bianca Leigh: So I would say, you know, maybe like in, in, in the, in the very beginning of the Lortel. And part of it was. To be honest with you. Um, I was. Concerned that. I show, because I knew everyone else was going to shine. It wasn't that, but I wanted to make sure that I show. You know, and then. You know, now I can see that there's only five of us. So everything that happens is important and all the characters are important. But at the time I was like, okay. My role is not that big. You know, and I'm on and I'm off and I'm on and I'm off. And I said, I've got to make sure, you know, and then the first time we, we. Took our bows.

[40:35] Bianca Leigh: You need help. Five people. There are five. Well, I didn't think they were literally going to forget me. But you know, And.

[40:59] Bianca Leigh: I guess the first. Just the first preview. And I got a nice. Little cheer. And I was like, oh, wow. And I cheered up a little. What's happening. And I said, well, I thought they were, they would have forgotten me. You know what I mean? Louise kind of. I become a different character.

[41:28] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[41:29] Bianca Leigh: Yeah. And I'm like, I just thought maybe they'd sort of forget about Louise. And Cole was like. You need help.

[41:46] Bianca Leigh: Wow.

[41:47] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[41:48] Bianca Leigh: Yeah. To soften. Mary's edges. And. That was sort of, they didn't know. You didn't get to know it. You didn't get to feel it. And then. you know, I think, you know, I think in the beginning because. There was more of a sense that Louise. What sort of brought in.

[41:59] Jayke Workman: Yeah.

[42:00] Bianca Leigh: To soften. Mary's edges. And. It was sort of, they didn't know. You didn't get the sense that they knew each other that well. And of course, because Colin, I didn't know each other that well. And then over time, you know, we've done this thing over 300 times. Right. And. I was sort of concerned that I, you know, I was very supportive. To my other actors, of course. But I wanted to get my shit in, you know, I wanted to make sure that I got some laughs. And that I shown, you know. You want to make sure. And. Also, you know, I, I have this bright idea that. The action takes place in the 19th century. So I was, I thought, oh, I'm just going to be, I'm going to sort of play this sort of. 19th century style. And I'm going to do everything out a lots and lots out front. And I did do a lot out front. Oh, if anything happened, I would die.

[42:15] Bianca Leigh: And over time, it just evolved because you're out there together. Most of the scenes are two-fers, you know, and you're out there with your scene partner in front of hundreds of people and all you have is each other, you know. And when I was younger, I remember they would say, you're only as good as your scene partner. And I'd be like, yeah, I don't know. I can act with a broomstick. Right. Watch me. And I have. And I have. But it is so true. If you really, you know, I mean, if you really want to act, you really want to discover the magic of truly being in the moment and living it. Everything has to go on your scene partner.

[43:21] Jayke Workman: Mm-hmm.

[43:22] Bianca Leigh: 100%. Everything, you know. So we opened, you know, over time you do it, you learn to, oh, I can trust this person, this person. They feel they can trust me. And the focus becomes less about I have to make sure that my shit, you know, that becomes not even a concern because also, you know, with five people, everyone's going to shine.

[43:49] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[43:50] Bianca Leigh: And you realize people come up to you after the show and you're like, oh my God, they really see what I'm doing and they appreciate it. And then, you know, and then over time it just becomes less of a concern about making sure that you shine and that you get your laughs and then suddenly you're in a Broadway theater and there's 900 people and it's just the two of you and you don't even care. I'm not, you're not doing three quarters. You're not doing this presentational. It's you and your colleague, your friend. And you are locked and loaded and you're 100% in it and you are 100% there for each other. And it's like a trapeze and you're like, let go. I will catch you. I know I kind of speak, I speak about it in this, but it is a very important relationship to me. It's a very important. It's like, you know, it's like your partner, it's like, you know, two, two, um, cops sitting in a, in a patrol car for years, you know, it's like, that's your partner.

[45:02] Jayke Workman: Yes.

[45:02] Bianca Leigh: You know, that's the person that has your back and that you trust. And it is, it's like, let go, let go. And in the beginning, I, you know, it's like, I obviously have some laughs. I don't have a lot of great punchlines. You know, Louise is very amusing, but she doesn't have a lot of killer punchlines. And me being a comic, we're going to run into a problem here. I'm getting my laugh. You know what I mean? It's like, so if I had to get them with a double take, if I have to get them with an expression or a funny voice, I'm going to get them. So, um, and then just sort of having to reconcile that, finding a place where you can get it, you know, cause you just have to get a certain amount of laughs if you're a comic actor, I'm sorry, you know, and you have to find it, but you have to find it so that it's not obtrusive.

It's not taking like the play is like a cruise liner, you know, and there's a few ports of call, but you can't, you can't turn the cruise ship over here. So, you know, it's like, thank you, Louise, but that's, we got to keep going. We got to keep going. We can't, Sam one said that is great, but that takes us on a side trip and we just don't, we just don't have the time, you know, or I did something where I almost fainted, which is what a nice 19th century lady does. She's in distress. I almost fainted and Sam said, that was hilarious. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it.

[46:59] Jayke Workman: That is such the crazy balance that you have to strike. I mean, I had a similar experience. I did an off-Broadway show in the summer and it was the first time that I had played a non-binary character that I felt so connected to and just normal in. I didn't feel like I was putting anything on, but it was also one of the main characters. So I was essentially, you know, playing the ingenue and that was a huge learning experience for me because I am always the comic character. And so to, to be setting up the jokes and have someone else get the punchline was so eye-opening, but it was fulfilling in a different way. It was a really nice reminder of like, okay, I am contributing to the bigger picture.

I am contributing to the laughs. Without my setup, the punchline wouldn't work. So, you know, it's all necessary, but that is that experience of being like, okay, I'm going to get my laughs in here and there, but otherwise I'm in service to the bigger picture. It's just really cool.

[47:59] Bianca Leigh: I mean, I, everything you just said was absolutely right. And I fought it because when I was, you know, I've been making people laugh for a long time. I'm older than I look, which don't say anything. And when I was younger, the older comics would speak very disparagingly about straight men, not straight men. You know what I mean? They called them stooges and it was almost a shameful thing, you know? And I don't know if that's an old Vaudeville. I wasn't in Vaudeville, but you know what I mean? Like the elders when I was young. So I, you know, a couple of my bits were cut and I called the stage manager and I'm like, wait a minute. I'm not a straight man. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not a straight man.

If you wanted a straight man, why would you hire me? I'm a comic actress. What is happening? What is going on here? And that's great about Brian, our stage manager, because I can call him up and say, if they cut one more laugh, you know, I'm this serious actress, but I'm also Sid Caesar on the Borscht belt. You're not cutting one more of my bits. And it's a thing. It's, you know, from the directorial standpoint, it has to fit in the frame. And getting to the part where, you know, I get my 10 lousy laughs and they fit. I almost said at one point, look, if you cut that, I'm going to find another place. So you might as well just leave it where it is. I have my quota. I don't know if it's 10. I don't know what it is, but I just, there's a quota I get, I have. So work with me here. If that's not cool, we got to figure something out because mama's got to get her laugh. They're like oxygen.

[50:04] Jayke Workman: Yes. A hundred percent.

[50:06] Bianca Leigh: So part of that thing with being on the trapeze is over time. Okay. So I'll give you an example. The ice cream.

[50:19] Jayke Workman: The best part of the show.

[50:23] Bianca Leigh: Thank you. My speech, I wanted, when I discuss, you know, I wanted that to be a comedy. That was going to be a comedy tour de force. And it's not, it's amusing. It's delightful, but it's really a long setup for one of Mary's lines. And it took me a while to realize. And it's like, so that's kind of where Louise is at. It's not a statement in the strict sense of the word, but a lot of what she does is amusing. And I just had to realize this is a wonderful moment for me, but it's still part of a long setup. And I'm fine with that. You know, I'm fine with that.

[51:09] Jayke Workman: I mean, it's still brilliant. Even just the tiny choices that you, that you make, like saying ice cream, like the little style choices, all of those are what, you know, clue us into who you are as a comic.

[51:23] Bianca Leigh: Yeah. And that's, you know, when you're an actor, you know, your job is just, you know, this stuff is written down, but it's black ink on a white page.

[51:32] Jayke Workman: Yep. What else is there?

[51:34] Bianca Leigh: You know, you know, it's like, we got to make it three dimensional. We have to add the sound, you know, we have to add the color and it's great. We have a good director that's helping you set the pace and fit into some, some kind of larger vision. But basically we have to do the work and we have to, you know, we have to add the sound and the color and the, and the textures and that's what's so wonderful because then it's really a collaboration. You know, the writer hands it off, okay, I'm going to lift this shit off the page. I'll be right back. And so, yeah. And then, you know, some of the choices can be put into words and some of them, I can't explain. I don't know why Louise says things like ice cream and hummingbird and a newspaper cartoon. I don't know why, but it just felt right.

[52:34] Jayke Workman: It's so right.

[52:34] Bianca Leigh: So I do it. I just do it. So then for a long time I was like, okay, so not, you know, I get to be funny. I'm not a straight man, but I do, part of my labor is I do have to do setups and I never really minded that. But like you said, it's like, oh wow, there's a learning curve here. And what I learned is if I blow a laugh of my own, okay, you know, I may be, oh damn. But if I blow a setup for a call, I really feel bad. And there is this certain responsibility, you know, and it's like when I say, um, nothing ever happens. Our country's at war. Thousands are being ravaged by typhoid. Your own son perished just last year. And it causes a bunch of like, it's like, I'm very aware. It's like, spit it out, girl, spit it out.

You know, I'm in the moment, but it's also like, it has to be, the pace has got to be there. If I slow down, then I'm handing Cola wet noodle. And, um, you know, and, and they don't really care, you know, they're not, you know, they're not like, oh, you made a mistake. It never cares if I make a mistake. Um, that I know of, I mean, you know, someone else, but it's like, um, and then when you do that set up and you spit it out and you got to go and you, and then you hand it over and then, you know, they deliver the punchline and you get this great laugh. You do feel like it is our laugh. It may not be my punchline, but it is our laugh. Or even you're happy for both of us. You're not so happy for them. It's like, I set up my friends, you know, I did, I did it. And now my friend is great laugh and it does feel good. And it, you know, um, that being said,

[54:46] Bianca Leigh: this is not something I would want to do the rest of my career. I'm like, you know, like if I did another play, be like, okay, well, I called my agent and I said, I am not a straight man. I'll do straight men work for two people. That's it. Period. Nobody else. Nobody else. And of course, you know, I mean, if Patti LuPone was like, you're going to be my sidekick. You're kidding me? Um, but you know what I mean? Um, uh, and, and then, uh, uh, I just sort of saddened to that, like this, I'm not a stew, just not a shameful thing. Fuck those vaudeville guys. And, um, my friend Jason Veazey from, uh, only murderers in the building and a strange loop came to see the show and he loved the show and he did an Instagram.

It was just beautiful what he said. Um, he said, I am the moment and I'm the face. Period. So I'm putting the show in the moment and I'm the face. Period. So I'm putting that on a t-shirt. Absolutely. Title of episode. She's the moment. She's the moment. She's the face. But anyway, um, and then he sent me a private message and said, you are a great straight man for Cole. And it didn't bother me. So it took a while not to be offended by that. Right. And I was like, you know, I really am. I really am. And that is part of my job. And

[56:19] Jayke Workman: When you trained for acting, when you got a BFA in acting, were there roles that you knew you wanted or needed to play? Did you envision yourself in specific roles or was it only about the training for you? Because you've spoken so much about how you are a comic and how you are a comedic actress. So was that part of your training or where did that sort of lead you?

[56:57] Bianca Leigh: Okay, so as far as being in college is concerned, I should send you an article that I wrote for a journal.

[57:07] Jayke Workman: Please.

[57:08] Bianca Leigh: Um, you know, thoughts about being a male-bodied trans actor, you know, I mean, for me, I always thought I would, I always wanted to transition. I was, you know, back then it wasn't super easy. It wasn't like there was all these doctors and, you know, there was just a few gender clinics and they were extremely expensive. I would say to the point of being exploitative. I mean, it was, you had to go through the psychiatrist that charged $150 an hour and you had to see her for a certain amount of period before you can even get a prescription for heroin, you know, and I was making $170 a week. So I got $20 left to live on. Right.

[58:04] Bianca Leigh: Um, so anyway, when I was in school and it was this Meisner training. So a lot of it was these exercises and the repetition and I have some feelings about that. We may discuss, there were some things I really learned. There were things I learned, there was some value in the Meisner training. However, the vast majority of what I've learned has been on stage by doing it. And I just told a young man that was studying at Maggie Flanagan's that, you know, don't let them yell at you. Do not let them yell at you. Do not let them scold you or tell you you're shit or you didn't get it. You didn't have it. It's not a stage. It's a studio, you know, and you're out in the hall asked to make, you know, do an emotional preparation and you know, you're going to walk in.

There's going to be like 25 other actors going, that's not reality. That's not the reality of what we do. So, you know, um, and no, that was a little tangent. So, you know, we were like sort of overwhelmed with this whole thing because we'd have to be, you know, we'd be in the hallway and, and girls were pulling their hair so they could make themselves cry. And if you came in and they didn't think you were sufficiently hurting, yes, it was, you didn't have it. No, you didn't have it. No, no, go back, whatever. And so consequently, I think, I think they really fucked up a lot of heads. A lot of people became really, it's not a coincidence that most of the people that I went to school with, those of us that work are all comics because that's the one thing that they, thank God, thank you, Bill, they didn't screw with.

Bill never tried to mess with someone's funny. And I went, Roger Bart was in my class and Kevin Chamberlain was in the class after me and they work all the time. And, you know, they can act, of course we can all act, but it's not a coincidence that we thrive, you know, um, and that hung over my head for a long time. And I really avoided, avoided, avoided anything too serious, but I kept calling, getting called in for stuff that had some seriousness. Did you see Hurricane Bianca?

[1:00:50] Jayke Workman: Yes, of course.

[1:00:50] Bianca Leigh: So of course she's funny. Karma's funny, but then you have to, you know, you're calling your mother, you know, that you haven't spoken to. I was like, oh God. And then there's a scene where you're reunited with a family after many years of being ostracized for being trans and it's a reunion. And I was like, okay, I got to do it. So it's like, let's fucking do it. So I, you know, when some things I've done with Taylor Mac, it's like, yes, I get to be funny and be stupid, but I'm also given some heavy lifting. And, um, and I just do it. I've done it. I do it. And I knew, and over time I was like, I can fucking do this. And, and then with this, I mean, this is obviously, uh, Mary is a crazy farce comedy, but there's some real acting in it.

And you know, um, Louise's heart is broken. And Sam said, you know, when we went to Broadway, because I, I, I love some of the silly voices you're doing in that scene. But now I think the audience should see your heart broken. And I thought, oh God, I have to act. So go out in the hallway and pull your hair.

[1:02:02] Bianca Leigh: To act. So I go in the hallway and I pull my hair. And the funny thing is, it's like, I just do it. I got to, and you know, I go, I go into the dark corner in two minutes and I, I fill myself up. Sometimes I think about something that actually happens. Sometimes I think about something imaginary. Those are two different schools of acting, by the way, but I'm like, whatever gets me there. Um, and I've done that 300, over 300 times, you know, and some days I'm a little dry. It doesn't matter. They don't need me to have a nervous breakdown, but I need to open that up. I need to open that up and I need to feel that pain so that when it happens, it's right there. Yeah. And so when I look at Mary and, and, you know, that expression that they have on their face, I'm right.

I'm open to it. And, um, so if you're an actor and you're out there, do not worship your acting teachers. They're just people. Period. Just keep doing what you're doing. Experience will be your greatest teacher. And if you think, oh, and you can't cry in cue, it doesn't matter. You get more and more experienced. You become more and more comfortable with your instrument and your emotions and your mind become more flexible and, uh, facile and, and, and you'll be able to do all of that. Will you be Meryl Streep? I don't think so. I'm not Meryl Streep. Um, but we can pretty much do what we need. We can, we can do a taste of Meryl. Period. We can do a taste of Meryl.

[1:03:53] Jayke Workman: Beautifully said. Little Meryl, little Glenn. Well, Bianca, you are just a dream. Thank you so, so much for being on the pod. Before I let you go, I have a quick series of rapid fire questions that I ask every guest. And I always go blank on these.

[1:04:06] Bianca Leigh: Oh God. Okay. Let's do it.

[1:04:14] Jayke Workman: Sondheim or Andrew Lloyd Webber?

[1:04:21] Bianca Leigh: Sondheim.

[1:04:21] Jayke Workman: Sweatpants or jeans?

[1:04:21] Bianca Leigh: Jeans.

[1:04:29] Jayke Workman: Do you have a favorite musical?

[1:04:29] Bianca Leigh: Gypsy. The first show I was in.

[1:04:35] Jayke Workman: No way. Who did you play?

[1:04:35] Bianca Leigh: I was one of the kids in Uncle Draco's Challenge. Love. Oh my God. She's a balloon girl. Um, I've been at this since 1968. Go ahead. Uh, do you have a least favorite musical?

[1:04:42] Bianca Leigh: Oh my God. Um, oh, um, I can't say, I can't say because a good friend was in it. I'll tell you. I'll tell you later. Um, do you have a favorite play?

[1:05:02] Bianca Leigh: Um, oh my God. I don't think I do. Um, I, I do remember being blown away by Shadowbox when I was young. Um, and, uh, yeah, I think, you know, and of course, I'm married. Of course.

[1:05:21] Jayke Workman: Um, are you a morning person or a night owl?

[1:05:29] Bianca Leigh: Night owl. I'd love to be a morning person.

[1:05:29] Jayke Workman: Me too. I'm bad at it.

[1:05:35] Bianca Leigh: Um, could you think of the craziest thing that a director has ever asked you to do?

[1:05:35] Bianca Leigh: Of course I'm going back. I, I think it might be being the back end of a cow, but I knew that would make a great story one day. So I was happy to do it. Um, uh, the thing that I think I remember is I was auditioning for, for something and she just kept saying, do it again. Be sexier, be sexier. And I think, well, what do you mean by sexier? I don't know what's sexy to you. That's playable. I mean, tell me, am I trying to like seduce someone or am I just in a, in a, in a narcissistic fugue? I don't know. I thought this was a toothpaste commercial. What are we doing here?

[1:06:31] Bianca Leigh: Yeah. I thought I did one time a director, um, three of us were doing this number and we came out and we rehearsed the number and we did it. And he said, um, you know, you, uh, it was like you were walking around Walmart. And I was like, but the worst thing the director said to me is I was auditioning for an ABC series. Okay. And it was this weird thing where I was, I didn't know how to play it. I didn't know how emotional her husband had just died. And I wasn't sure if she was supposed to be somewhat in shock and able to make these arrangements or she was falling apart. So, you know, and I got a call back at the network casting office in New York and they had the whole setup and LA was online. And I did, I, I did, I ran through it and it was like the director and the writer were in LA and they were on these couches, you know, and I did it. And he said, yeah, do it again. And this time don't do it. Like you're ordering a pizza.

[1:07:49] Jayke Workman: That's insane.

[1:07:52] Bianca Leigh: Because you didn't get the part.

[1:07:53] Jayke Workman: Yeah. Do you have a favorite role that you've ever played?

[1:07:58] Bianca Leigh: Oh, why are you doing this to me? Um, Livia in I, Claudius.

[1:08:05] Jayke Workman: Love.

[1:08:07] Bianca Leigh: We did I, Claudius as, as a serial play. We did one episode every week down in the East Village. And I was Livia, the evil empress. And that was the role of a lifetime.

[1:08:19] Jayke Workman: Yes. Well, my last question for you is a question I ask every guest, which is what is one thing that you would tell baby Bianca?

[1:08:24] Bianca Leigh: It's going to happen. Sit tight. Focus on what you're doing. Don't worry about anything else. Let go of the past. Let go of the future. Just keep your nose to the grindstone. You're a fabulous human being. You're a talent and you're going to get over that hump.

[1:08:49] Jayke Workman: Love. Wow. Well, Bianca, thank you so, so much for coming on the pod.

[1:08:54] Bianca Leigh: My pleasure.

[1:08:55] Jayke Workman: Would you like to tell the listeners where they can find you on the interwebs and keep up with you?

[1:09:02] Bianca Leigh: Well, my name is Bianca Leigh, L-E-I-G-H. I'm trying to think of it. Facebook is Bianca Leigh. It's Bianca Leigh. And you'll see my photograph. There's a million of them. And then I think Instagram is Bianca Leigh 2000.

[1:09:23] Jayke Workman: Very science fiction, right?

[1:09:24] Bianca Leigh: Yes, I love it. Because there's a lot of little Bianca Lees running around like, Bianca Lee, you know, Bianca Lee last name. That's their first and middle name. And I'm like, no, no, no. And I love when they Google themselves and they say like, who is this woman? Who is that? How dare she?

[1:09:47] Jayke Workman: Exactly. Stole my name. Well, you are just a delight. Thank you so much.

[1:09:51] Bianca Leigh: Thank you so much for having me.

[1:09:53] Jayke Workman: You guys, that's it for another episode of Oh My Pod, you guys. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe anywhere you listen to the pod. And you can follow the show on Instagram at Oh My Pod, you guys. Also, check out the videos coming soon on YouTube, Instagram Reels, and TikTok. Thank you so, so much for listening. Talk soon. Bye!