This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ariana Grande: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo. And you're listening to The Sentimental Men Podcast.

[0:05] Ariana Grande: Visit vpn.fm to discover more.

[0:30] Quincy Brown: This is a whirlwind press tour that this cast is currently on. The Wicked Bonanza. I feel privileged and honored to be a little blip in the mass hysteria. And just privileged to be living in a timeline where anytime you open up your phone, there's Wicked content. New Wicked content. I know. It's a blessing.

[0:54] Kevin Bianchi: To the cast and creative team, thank you so much for pounding the pavement on the press tour. We are really appreciating it. And the movie comes out so soon.

[1:02] Quincy Brown: The movie comes out, I know, a week from today. If you're listening to this, the day it comes out, a week from today.

[1:08] Kevin Bianchi: Wow.

[1:09] Quincy Brown: After years and years of waiting, we'll no longer be living in a world where the Wicked movie is not available to the general public.

[1:18] Kevin Bianchi: And I gotta tell you, as like the days have gone by, I'm getting very excited for part two.

[1:23] Quincy Brown: I know.

[1:25] Kevin Bianchi: Shut up, Jake.

[1:27] Quincy Brown: But we got a lot of time to talk about part two.

[1:31] Kevin Bianchi: I gotta start thinking of some new talking points about part two.

[1:35] Quincy Brown: Kevin, we also got to go to the Wicked movie premiere in Los Angeles last week.

[1:41] Kevin Bianchi: Oh my god, I know. I almost forgot because it truly feels like a month ago. That's how many premieres they've had since then. I'm like, that truly cannot have been just last weekend.

[1:53] Quincy Brown: Yeah, we're recording this on the eve of the New York premiere. They already had a Mexico City premiere in between LA and New York. And then I think they're finishing in London next week.

[2:03] Kevin Bianchi: That sounds right to me.

[2:05] Quincy Brown: This interview is one of my favorite interviews we've done. I left the recording session very misty-eyed.

[2:13] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, I think it's a really special conversation. Her experience with the show is so singular, or with the role is so singular, that I feel very lucky that she opened up with us the way she did.

[2:27] Quincy Brown: Let's get into it. Before we do, this will be the same situation as the Ariana spoiler-free episode, so there'll be some fast-forward scrubbing that you hear. That means we're talking about spoilers. We want you all to be able to see the movie with as fresh of eyes as possible.

[2:45] Kevin Bianchi: And then speaking of, we are also going to push back the release of the two extended spoiler-included episodes for Ariana and Cynthia, just to give everyone a little more time to see it first before we all discuss. So Ariana's extended episode is going to drop on December 2nd, and Cynthia's is going to come on December 9th. So just pushing everything a week. But go see the movie. Go see it three or four times before.

[3:13] Quincy Brown: I was going to say, use those extra days to see it again and again.

[3:17] Kevin Bianchi: All right, let's get into it. I'm excited.

[3:23] Quincy Brown: I'm Quincy.

[3:25] Kevin Bianchi: And I'm Kevin.

[3:27] Quincy Brown: And this is Sentimental Men. We're here to talk, and maybe scream, about our favorite women in musical theater.

[3:35] Quincy Brown: Cynthia Erivo, thank you so much for joining us on Sentimental Men today.

[3:43] Cynthia Erivo: Oh, it feels good to say.

[3:45] Quincy Brown: During the midst of, like, the craziest moment of the Wicked Press Tour?

[3:50] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah, yeah. It's actually nuts. We leave for Australia in three or four days.

[3:58] Quincy Brown: Is that the first premiere?

[3:59] Cynthia Erivo: That's the first premiere, yeah.

[4:00] Quincy Brown: Gotcha. And then you're just traveling the world?

[4:02] Cynthia Erivo: Yes.

[4:03] Quincy Brown: How are you feeling in this moment?

[4:04] Cynthia Erivo: I'm feeling really excited. I thought I would be more tired than I am. I'm not. So I feel like I'm sort of ready to get going. I say that now. It speaks to me in two days. But I'm excited. I think it's going to be really special.

[4:19] Quincy Brown: Okay, so we start every interview with how did Wicked the musical come into your life as just a person?

[4:26] Cynthia Erivo: Wicked the musical came into my life when I was about 20 years old at drama school. I was sort of like the odd one out at drama school. I always felt sort of different. And a friend of mine, or someone who became a friend, his name is Michael Peavoy, and he could play piano, and I could sing.

[4:47] Cynthia Erivo: And he spotted me and was like, hey, do you want to sing some stuff? And I said, well, yeah, sure. So he picked up a couple librettos, and one of those librettos happened to be Wicked. So we went to a little room with a piano, and we kept playing the music, and I learned the music before I saw the show.

[5:08] Quincy Brown: And what were you singing?

[5:09] Cynthia Erivo: Oh, the whole front to back. So we were singing everything. So when I say I knew the music, I learned the libretto. We just went through day by day, and back and went all the way through it often. So I knew everything. I think his favorite song, I want to say his favorite song was, was it The Wizard and I? I think he kept asking me to sing that one. But we sung it all.

[5:38] Cynthia Erivo: It was a toss up between that and Dreamgirls. And then when I was 25, I took myself on a solo date to see the musical in London. And that's history. So then 10 years later,

[5:53] Quincy Brown: Do you remember who you saw in London as Elphaba and Glinda?

[5:56] Cynthia Erivo: I don't. And I think I went to see the show, not just to see the show, but also because I think a friend of mine was running the sound desk during that, but I can't remember who it was I saw.

[6:09] Quincy Brown: Talk to us about that first experience seeing it.

[6:13] Cynthia Erivo: I immediately took to Elphaba because I understood what it was like to be different or not fitting in. And something went off in my brain. And I never forgot that moment. It was one of those moments that stuck with me.

[6:32] Cynthia Erivo: I said before that it felt like I floated home, because I couldn't get the feeling out of my head. I couldn't get out of my body. I remember loving it. I sat in the dress circle, what you would call the, not the balcony, but like the

[6:52] Kevin Bianchi: The mezzanine.

[6:54] Cynthia Erivo: where the flying monkeys come into the audience. And I felt like a kid. I was like, Oh, my God, what's happening? It was one of the most wonderful experiences, because I felt like there was something I had recognized on the stage. And it was something I wanted to be a part of.

[7:22] Quincy Brown: At that point, when you're learning this music in drama school with your friend, and you're seeing the show, are you identifying this as like, this is something I want to do in my career? As an actress, I want to be in the show, I want to play this part.

[7:36] Cynthia Erivo: I didn't know if it was playing the part, but I knew I loved the music. So I think the grand scheme of musical was something I knew that I wanted to be a part of my career for sure. Yeah. I think when I saw it, I was like, Oh, I like that part. There's something about that part. That feels good. That feels right. Yeah.

[7:58] Quincy Brown: So then as you started building your stage career, did the opportunity to play it on stage ever come up in those years?

[8:05] Cynthia Erivo: Really?

[8:07] Quincy Brown: Never.

[8:08] Cynthia Erivo: Especially with the voice you have.

[8:09] Cynthia Erivo: No, it never came up. Yeah. Well, we now know there's a reason why.

[8:14] Quincy Brown: Yes, yes. Everything for a reason. Yeah. So then how did it come up? How did it come up to you the first time?

[8:22] Cynthia Erivo: I knew that they were seeing people for the film. And I told my team to not say anything to me at all. I don't want to know. Don't tell me anything unless it looks like it might come my way. Other than that, I was like, I don't want to know. Don't tell me about it.

[8:40] Cynthia Erivo: Because I think a part of me was like, if I just ignore what's happening, and it doesn't come my way, I won't feel that hurt by it. Because I think deep down, I knew that I would love to have been a part of it. So I was like, if I don't have, if I'm not connected, if I don't know anything about it, then I can go on about my business.

[9:05] Kevin Bianchi: Protect your feelings.

[9:07] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah, I can protect myself and I'm good. But then I bumped into John at some event, and we talked. And then we talked again. And then...

[9:20] Quincy Brown: Who brought up Wicked?

[9:22] Cynthia Erivo: I think he might have brought up Wicked. So we're doing this. I know. You're directing? Great. Yeah. And I think we were just sort of like having a discussion about what I felt this person would be and what their story was and this person meaning Elphaba and who she was and what she meant to me and what I could possibly bring to it.

[9:50] Cynthia Erivo: And I think he just took that into consideration. And then we went away. And I remember we had a conversation, the next conversation we had, so ridiculously bougie. The next conversation we had was, I think the day of the Met Gala.

[10:08] Cynthia Erivo: So the next conversation we had was the Met Gala 2020, 2022, or 2021. And I was in a hotel and we Zoomed and we just chatted about it. And then I got the call to say, they want you to go in. And I think it was the last person they saw.

[10:31] Quincy Brown: Right, like, had you been hearing about other people going in for it at this point?

[10:35] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. And I kept telling them, just, I don't care. Don't tell me, please. I don't want to know. I don't want to know. And they were like, they might call you in. It looks like they might call you in. I said, well, when they call me in, tell me, please. And when they called me in, it was so respectful because he called me just to do, it was like a screen test, but it was three hours. I was there for three hours.

[11:00] Cynthia Erivo: I worked with two other actresses, scenes, songs, damn near all of them, and I was so ready for it. Because I remember when I got the sides and the music, I trained like a boxer. So I ran things. Thank you so much. I ran whilst I was singing, I would pace and just getting movement into my body so I could be ready to do it when I got there.

[11:28] Cynthia Erivo: Singing in the shower over and over again, repeating everything over and over again, reading the scenes over and over again, because I just wanted to be, when I got there, I wanted to be so present in it that I wasn't really thinking about which words are coming out, which songs coming out.

[11:44] Cynthia Erivo: And I remember the day before, I had a concert at Disney Hall. This is the wildness of my life. I had a concert at Disney with the LA Philharmonic and Gustavo Dudamel conducting. And I knew once I finished, I needed to get home very quickly because I was in the next day, early due to this audition.

[12:09] Cynthia Erivo: And I just was so ready to go in and show what I had.

[12:15] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. So take us inside that first audition. What were you doing? And then how were you feeling after the fact?

[12:22] Cynthia Erivo: The first audition I went in with, I was just like, ready. Let's go. Let's do this. I think it was early. We went through the music. I think I got there and I was on my own for a little bit before the first actress showed up. We sort of practiced with the pianist who was there that day. It was very lovely. I remember that.

[12:44] Cynthia Erivo: He was very sweet and warm. And he played beautifully as well, which is sometimes very rare in an audition. There was no rush. It was like, let's play all the incidentals. We're going to do all of that.

[13:00] Cynthia Erivo: And I remember thinking, oh, this is nice. Oh, I can sing with this. This is good. So I went through the music with him and then the first actress comes in and then we start going through the scene work.

[13:15] Cynthia Erivo: And I just I remember feeling really present for all of it. And there was a point where John asked me about my relationship to Wicked and how I'd come to it.

[13:30] Cynthia Erivo: And when I went to explain what happened at my drama school, it made me really emotional because I think it was the first time I'd realized I really did feel out of sorts at drama school.

[13:43] Cynthia Erivo: I really didn't feel like I fit in that place. And this particular piece was a little space to go to that where I did fit.

[13:55] Cynthia Erivo: That's what this piece did for me whilst I was at drama school. And so I think that it dawned on me that that was what was happening at drama school. And to come around to it at this point, to do it this way, just felt really massive. Yeah.

[14:13] Quincy Brown: So how long was your audition process in all?

[14:17] Cynthia Erivo: That day, three hours.

[14:19] Quincy Brown: That was it?

[14:20] Cynthia Erivo: That was it.

[14:21] Quincy Brown: One and done?

[14:22] Cynthia Erivo: One and done.

[14:23] Kevin Bianchi: Wow. And to be clear, Ariana was not either of those chemistry reads.

[14:27] Cynthia Erivo: She was not, no.

[14:28] Quincy Brown: When did you get the call after that first audition?

[14:31] Cynthia Erivo: I want to say it was about two or three weeks after.

[14:35] Kevin Bianchi: Wow, that's fascinating because I think Ariana told us about she had a three month process.

[14:39] Cynthia Erivo: She went in four or five times.

[14:42] Quincy Brown: Wow. And so what were those two, three weeks like? After it was like, I don't want to hear about it. I don't want to hear about it.

[14:48] Cynthia Erivo: It was hellish. I was like, when are we finding out, for God's sakes, please, when are we finding out?

[14:52] Cynthia Erivo: And I was in the middle of, what was I doing? I think I was doing Luther at that point.

[14:56] Cynthia Erivo: So I was in London, like just waiting, just waiting and biding my time and figuring it out and working.

[15:05] Cynthia Erivo: It's just the anticipation of like, what is happening? Is it happening? Is it not happening?

[15:10] Cynthia Erivo: Have I got it? Have I not got it? What's going on?

[15:14] Cynthia Erivo: I think what John, I think John did both of us a favour.

[15:18] Cynthia Erivo: I think John did the wonderful thing of allowing, allowing Ariana to deconstruct the thing that has been built, the person who's been built so that she could just be in the room.

[15:31] Cynthia Erivo: And I think he did me the service of giving me the chance to lose it. It was mine to lose.

[15:40] Cynthia Erivo: So the way he had set it up, so when he brought me in, I had all the tools I needed and I had the time I needed to be as ready as I possibly could be.

[15:50] Quincy Brown: And so it was sort of like, take it and run or leave it.

[15:55] Kevin Bianchi: Sounds like you felt very safe in that room.

[15:57] Cynthia Erivo: I did. No, I really did.

[15:58] Quincy Brown: So then you get the call. What is the first thought that comes into your head?

[16:04] Cynthia Erivo: I have to tell you how the call happens, though, because my team, they're dramatic, just dramatic, ridiculous and dramatic.

[16:14] Cynthia Erivo: I get an email. I get an email that says, Cynthia, we've got this piece of IP and we think it could be really good for your production company. And you, Salome, who's my production partner, I think we need to jump on a call at some point.

[16:28] Cynthia Erivo: And then I get a text from my agent. Actually, you know what, Cynthia? I think we should jump on a call like right now because now it's going to go. And I know it's late there, but it's not so late here. But the also is like ready to go and have a conversation about it.

[16:41] Cynthia Erivo: It's 1 a.m. in London. Oh, my gosh.

[16:44] Cynthia Erivo: It's 1 a.m. in London. First of all, why does my team know that I'm going to be awake? Why is that like an OK thing to ask?

[16:50] Cynthia Erivo: They just know I'm going to be awake at 1 a.m. in the morning.

[16:53] Cynthia Erivo: And they're correct because that's how I am.

[16:57] Cynthia Erivo: So I read this email like, OK, and I text back, OK, I'm ready. And I'm in my pajamas. So I'm like, but my pajamas don't look like pajamas.

[17:05] Cynthia Erivo: So that's good. We'll keep that on. Let's put a pair of glasses on. Let's go. I'm ready. So I get myself set up on the sofa.

[17:13] Cynthia Erivo: And if I just have like that, you know, right, waist up, we're good. It's perfect.

[17:20] Cynthia Erivo: And I put this computer on. I get a Zoom link. Zoom link comes on. John Chu's name comes up. It's 1 a.m. in the morning, remember.

[17:28] Cynthia Erivo: So I go, John Chu. Maybe he knows something about the book.

[17:35] Cynthia Erivo: I don't know. And faces start coming up on the screen. I'm still not. I still don't have it. I'm like, what is this?

[17:43] Cynthia Erivo: I guess there's nothing to talk about. Maybe everyone's involved. Who knows? All right. Who's leading this meeting?

[17:50] Cynthia Erivo: Like nothing is nothing is connecting. Nothing's connecting. And then John starts to talk about this girl who was at this drama school who felt like she was out of sorts.

[17:58] Cynthia Erivo: And she goes to this room and sing the music. And then she walks into this room one day and starts singing about this green girl. And I'm like, and now everything's starting to piece together.

[18:05] Cynthia Erivo: And I'm like. Don't play with me. Don't play.

[18:13] Cynthia Erivo: And he goes, and I don't know what planet you came from, but I think the rest of the world should see more of you.

[18:20] Cynthia Erivo: And I just I was lost it. I lost it. We want you to be our Elphaba. And I just I don't even think I could I couldn't be articulate. All I could do is cry. And in that I have glasses on.

[18:28] Cynthia Erivo: I put my head my head in my arms. The glasses flip up over my head. I just I'm like, all I could say is thank you very much.

[18:39] Cynthia Erivo: Because it's sort of like the culmination of a dream that you didn't realize that you even had until you had to be in the situation of wanting the dream.

[18:48] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah, it was the wildest moment ever. I cannot tell you what happened the rest for the rest of the night.

[18:54] Quincy Brown: Right. Like was there banter on the Zoom after? Did you hang up?

[18:57] Cynthia Erivo: I have no idea. I think we had a little chat. Everything was a blur after that. I don't know who I called after. I think I called my mom.

[19:07] Cynthia Erivo: It was 1 a.m. in the morning. I was like, it's 1 a.m. in the morning. Can't call my mom. Who do I call? Yeah. What time? How early is it too early to call anyone?

[19:16] Cynthia Erivo: I don't know if I slept that night.

[19:18] Quincy Brown: Did you know who your Glinda was in that call or did that come later?

[19:21] Cynthia Erivo: I think I found out a little later after that call like that the same day that it was Ari, which did not surprise me one bit.

[19:32] Cynthia Erivo: I was not surprised at all.

[19:35] Cynthia Erivo: I was deeply relieved because I knew it was going to be handled in the best way possible. That was like, oh, good. Fabulous. That's what we do. Yeah.

[19:49] Quincy Brown: I was like, it was one of the most incredible moments to experience, one of the most surreal things to experience.

[19:57] Quincy Brown: So then what was the immediate excitement and also apprehension as you're coming to terms with the fact that you're about to embark on this journey?

[20:06] Cynthia Erivo: The excitement, I don't think either one of us could fathom how big this was. I think we had an idea of the fact that this was big, but I don't think we really let ourselves understand the size of it.

[20:23] Cynthia Erivo: Even seeing what it's doing now, I'm like, wow, this is a thing. This is a thing.

[20:29] Cynthia Erivo: I love Wicked and this is a thing. And but every day feels like, oh, oh, this is like a thing. This is a thing. Yeah. Yeah.

[20:38] Cynthia Erivo: You know, when you see people running to Target and grabbing Stanley Cups and fighting over Stanley Cups, you're like, oh, this is a thing.

[20:46] Cynthia Erivo: And someone, you know, a doll comes to a doll with your face on it.

[20:50] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. I mean, hello. Comes to you and someone says, can you sign my doll? And you go. My face is on a doll.

[20:57] Cynthia Erivo: I'm a tell Barbie. I'm a tell. I'm a Barbie, guys.

[21:02] Quincy Brown: You are a Barbie.

[21:06] Cynthia Erivo: My nose and my lips are on a Barbie. Like what is happening? That's none of us could fathom that this would be what it what it is right now.

[21:14] Cynthia Erivo: I went through times of striving past times and there's the most ridiculously huge billboard combined with a huge moving billboard and a double and a poster of the both of us.

[21:33] Cynthia Erivo: And then there's I don't even I've never seen myself that big in my life. Like, what is that? It's insane.

[21:37] Cynthia Erivo: The whole thing is insane. Neither one of us could possibly have fathomed that that was what was going to happen.

[21:47] Cynthia Erivo: But I think we also what we did know intrinsically was how special this thing was.

[21:53] Cynthia Erivo: We were both really clear on the fact that we wanted to not just do a good job, but really take care of this, like take as much care of this as we possibly could.

[22:06] Cynthia Erivo: And to do that, we did the opposite of fanfare. We sort of like went right. Zero in. How do we do this? Where do we begin? What do we need? And that was that's how we've done this from from the beginning.

[22:24] Cynthia Erivo: She and I knew we needed to come together first without everybody. So she came to my house and we sat and we chatted. We just like were got to know each other.

[22:37] Cynthia Erivo: Then we went to John's house and just it was him, Winnie, Stephen Aramis, Stephen Schwartz, myself and Ari.

[22:49] Cynthia Erivo: And we just sort of I think Johnny come. I want to say maybe Johnny came.

[22:56] Quincy Brown: And how does the conversation even get kicked off with that group? Where do you start?

[22:59] Cynthia Erivo: John is really good at start, like giving good speeches. John is very good at like opening the floor.

[23:05] Cynthia Erivo: Got you. It's like it's like secret talent that he has. So he's like, so I want to welcome everyone. I know we're about to go on this big journey.

[23:12] Cynthia Erivo: And he has like a table laid out of like a costume because he'd been working with Paul. So Paul has like some examples of what the costumes might be like.

[23:17] Cynthia Erivo: He has sweet, sweet man. He got little trays, like little yellow brick roads for us, like like model yellow brick roads for each of us.

[23:31] Cynthia Erivo: So we have that and we signed each one of us signed it. So we have this. I have mine put on the tray and like I've kept that.

[23:38] Cynthia Erivo: And so we have it. He opens the floor up that way. And then at some point in the day we have a dinner together.

[23:48] Cynthia Erivo: So we all sit, we break bread together. And then in the evening, Ari and I sing with Stephen Schwartz.

[23:55] Quincy Brown: And that's the first time we sing together.

[23:55] Cynthia Erivo: And the first time we sing together, we sing for good.

[24:00] Quincy Brown: And you've worked with Stephen before.

[24:02] Cynthia Erivo: This is my first time working with Stephen.

[24:04] Quincy Brown: Oh, really?

[24:05] Cynthia Erivo: My first time working with Stephen. It's my first time singing with Ari.

[24:07] Quincy Brown: Gotcha. A moment.

[24:10] Cynthia Erivo: Big day. But it was wonderful. And I think that moment for Ari and I was really special because it was the first time we had heard our voices together.

[24:23] Cynthia Erivo: And we quickly realized that it works.

[24:28] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[24:29] Cynthia Erivo: And there is nothing more wonderful than realizing that your voice works with someone else's.

[24:35] Cynthia Erivo: It is really special, especially if this is the first time you've sung together.

[24:41] Quincy Brown: Right.

[24:42] Cynthia Erivo: We had not practiced. We had not sung this before. It just worked.

[24:48] Quincy Brown: Yeah. Were there tears?

[24:49] Cynthia Erivo: Oh, yes. Yes, there were tears. Yes, there were tears. We were both speechless. We didn't know what to say.

[25:06] Cynthia Erivo: Because it's an emotional thing to be able to, an emotional and vulnerable thing to have to sing with someone when you've not sung with them before.

[25:17] Cynthia Erivo: You really do have to open yourself up to that person and allow yourself to hear them and allow yourself to be heard, to combine your voices the way that happened.

[25:22] Cynthia Erivo: And we did it immediately. And that was really special. I think that moved us both.

[25:26] Cynthia Erivo: It was sort of like an indication of what the rest of this was going to be like.

[25:30] Quincy Brown: If we could do that without having done this before, if we could do that with no practice, if we could do that in front of a room of people with nothing, no makeup, nothing, then we could really do this.

[25:37] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. You and Ariana have both talked about this pact you made at the beginning of the process to protect and take care of each other. Can you talk a little bit more about what that looks like day to day as you go through this journey?

[25:50] Cynthia Erivo: Day to day, it's sort of allowing, we're making decisions together, always making decisions together, always moving together. So it's never, I'm never over there and she's over here. We're always like in tandem.

[26:03] Cynthia Erivo: And we were always looking out for each other as well. So say, for instance, if there's a particular scene that needs a little quiet or I need a little bit of privacy or time and it doesn't feel like that, she would take on the task of going, hey, she needs quiet.

[26:28] Cynthia Erivo: Or if Ari is in a particular scene, because we both need different things to make the moment, we both need different things to get us where we need to be.

[26:40] Cynthia Erivo: Ari needs contact when there's emotion. So she needs to be close. So I just be there with her for a second. And sometimes I need to be like all alone to find myself and she would give me the space. Or if we're working on something and both of us need a break and it feels like it's running away from us, both of us make the agreement.

[27:04] Cynthia Erivo: I think we should take a break. Then we ask together, hey, whether this would really love a break, if that's possible, you know, sort of taking the responsibility to work in the atmosphere together.

[27:17] Cynthia Erivo: And also just like being comfortable, having conversations, because we built this relationship, not just for Wicked, but for outside, for us as two human beings outside of this film, but as two women together.

[27:37] Cynthia Erivo: So that means opening yourself up to conversations that might have to come up, things that, you know, if I've had a bad day, then I want to have the conversation with her.

[27:47] Cynthia Erivo: And it's not necessarily the prettiest conversation, but she's open and open for me to have that conversation. If she hasn't had a great day and something's going on and she wants to discuss something and figure something out, my phone is on.

[28:00] Cynthia Erivo: Or if I need to come over, she has to come over, whatever it is. We're always there for each other, not just for the good moments, but for the moments that are a little more complicated, you know?

[28:09] Cynthia Erivo: That means that there's a level of honesty and intimacy that allows for us to actually make something like this.

[28:20] Quincy Brown: The intimacy is necessary to make something as big as this at least feel connected, you know?

[28:27] Quincy Brown: Yeah. And something that I think reads so clearly in your performance, your joint performance, is like the love story of these two women. It is a story about these two women learning how to love each other and hearing the ways that you are taking care of each other offstage, or not offstage, not in front of the camera. It all clicks. It's like, well, that is so tangible and permeable on screen.

[28:55] Cynthia Erivo: I mean, it's like a daily recitative, you know what I mean? We speak to each other every day. If we don't speak to each other every day, we will have text each other, even if it's just like, hey, have a good day, or just what's going on.

[29:10] Cynthia Erivo: I had to do a speech at something, and I was running it and checking it and rewriting, and I wasn't sure about it. So I read it to her already, and then I had to go away and rewrite something else, and I sent it to her.

[29:23] Cynthia Erivo: She remembered that I was writing the speech, so she said, hey, I think you're finishing the speech today. Send it to me if you want. Let me have a read if I want to hear how it's going.

[29:34] Cynthia Erivo: So I sent her the speech. She read it. She was like, that feels good. It feels really genuine. I was like, there's nothing that we need to change. No, that's really great. I love this.

[29:42] Cynthia Erivo: So it's like a true, honest understanding of what I'm doing. While she was making her album, I was making my album, so I'm listening to her music. She's been listening to my music. I finally finished mine. I've sent her the music.

[29:56] Cynthia Erivo: She's listened to it. She's come back with it. This is how we function. So it's a true understanding of who we are, what we need, and it's an ongoing back and forth in life in general.

[30:09] Quincy Brown: Cynthia, can we talk about the filming of the Asda scene? Just because Chris Murphy alluded to it in his cover story, and when we were talking to Ariana, there seems to be something that feels important about the filming of that scene, and I would love to hear your take on it.

[30:26] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. So when we started rehearsing it, I think they had had a dance choreographed already, and when we did it, I remember thinking, this doesn't feel like her movement.

[30:34] Cynthia Erivo: So I was like, can we just start from the beginning and find out how she moves, just find out what she does? Because I knew that I didn't want it to be her discovering movement for the first time.

[30:58] Cynthia Erivo: I knew that I didn't want it to be her learning to dance. I knew that I wanted it to be someone who understands movement, but in a different way. She's learned to move differently. She's had different experiences.

[31:14] Cynthia Erivo: She's been raised in a different way and so hasn't been to dance parties, but understands movement, but her own way. It's very individual to her.

[31:25] Cynthia Erivo: So we created something that felt like Elphaba. And then I had questions about, well, why would she put the hat back on? There has to be a reason why she puts this hat back on.

[31:40] Cynthia Erivo: And then we sort of decided, well, what if she decides to imbue this thing that when she first saw it, she thought was beautiful, she thought was different and strange like her, could see herself in the hat.

[31:56] Cynthia Erivo: So if we take this hat off because of the hurt, there's a choice to put it back on. So what if you fill it with power? What if it really does become an emblem of something that holds power?

[32:08] Cynthia Erivo: Maybe this is like the first time she casts something unknowingly, but she does that. And then that dance isn't just a spell to cast, but it's sort of an ownership of space, an ownership of her loneliness, an ownership of her hurt, an ownership of her difference and her separation.

[32:39] Cynthia Erivo: And shooting it was just painful, but in the most beautiful way, because she has to be brave enough to do it in front of everybody.

[32:52] Cynthia Erivo: She has to be brave enough to say, OK, fine, I'll be on my own. I'll do it by myself. So she takes up this space, which is a brave thing to do anyway, and places herself right in the centre of it.

[33:08] Cynthia Erivo: And there's a level of vulnerability, insecurity, hurt, pain, love that has to come to the surface when you do that.

[33:24] Quincy Brown: And what are you as Cynthia bringing to that moment?

[33:54] Cynthia Erivo: I just thought of all of the times where I felt like I was alone. And I thought of all the times where I felt like I didn't feel seen. And I thought of all the times where you don't feel accepted in a crowd and you feel that you stand out, but you don't want to stand out.

[34:31] Cynthia Erivo: I just knew that those are the things that would come to the surface for her. And there is a particular kind of pain that comes from feeling like you finally found someone who sees you a little bit. And when that becomes a betrayal, it's just hard.

[34:52] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[34:53] Cynthia Erivo: And I think that that final moment where she looks at Glinda is less of an accusation, but a why would you do this to me?

[35:05] Quincy Brown: Wow.

[35:08] Cynthia Erivo: You know?

[35:09] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[35:10] Cynthia Erivo: I always feel like it was like a pleading of like, what did I do to deserve this? You know?

[35:21] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[35:22] Cynthia Erivo: And I think in that moment, they really see each other. It's when Glinda sees us and that's a human being.

[35:31] Quincy Brown: It gets her to snap out of it.

[35:33] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. And that moment where Glinda dances on her own and tries to do this dance, I always think is the most vulnerable moment of asking for forgiveness and wanting to connect.

[35:51] Cynthia Erivo: And the first time Elphaba sort of, she says, follow me. And she puts her hands and waits. That's a, okay, should we start again? And that's when they start to discover each other.

[36:11] Quincy Brown: And Ari always wanted to, whenever we do the dance together, she would try to forget it. She didn't want to over-rehearse it because she wanted to learn on the spot.

[36:24] Cynthia Erivo: So it was like teaching a person this piece with her language, fresh every time.

[36:32] Quincy Brown: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That's really beautiful. And it's kind of blown up how I view that moment in the movie now.

[36:40] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. And we weren't intending to take, it wasn't like the intention to be like, we will not have any loves at all. I just, I just knew what I wanted to say for her.

[36:53] Quincy Brown: Right.

[36:54] Cynthia Erivo: And that's what I wanted to say for her. Yeah.

[36:56] Quincy Brown: There's something interesting there too, with that take on the moment of Elphaba's ability to feel that betrayal, but then easily choose to forgive quickly.

[37:07] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. Yeah. I think she wants to be loved as well. And I also think that, I think Elphaba has this wonderful way of seeing past the veneer.

[37:24] Cynthia Erivo: She does it with Fiero. She does it with Dr. Zillerman. She does, she sees. In some people it takes longer than the others, but she does it with the wizard. She does it with Madame Morrible. She sees past things. You know, she sees what she wants to see because she's a hurt being.

[37:44] Cynthia Erivo: So with Madame Morrible, she doesn't see soon enough because she feels really accepted. It's someone who wants her for her. And it's like, oh my gosh, someone's, they see me.

[37:56] Cynthia Erivo: They think this thing that I have hated my whole life is a talent. It's a talent. She'd never heard it called a talent before. She was sent away because it scared people, you know.

[38:13] Cynthia Erivo: It was the destruction of her for a long time. Now all of a sudden it's the one thing that makes her special.

[38:20] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[38:22] Cynthia Erivo: So she, I think she's a little bit blind in it. I think she doesn't see Madame Morrible for what she is until it's too late. Well, almost too late.

[38:32] Cynthia Erivo: But with everyone else, she kind of gets them. She sees the thin veil and goes past it.

[38:40] Quincy Brown: Something that comes up a lot with the actresses we speak to who do the role on stage is obviously how demanding this role is to do. You are the only actress who has done this role on film. So I would love to hear about the logistics of playing Elphaba on screen.

[38:58] Cynthia Erivo: The logistics of doing Elphaba on screen.

[39:03] Cynthia Erivo: Starting with getting green, I guess. We haven't talked about that yet.

[39:07] Cynthia Erivo: So my mornings, because we would often start early, my mornings would probably start at like 3am in the morning. I would work out because she is quite physical and there's lots of flying and there's lots of harness work.

[39:22] Cynthia Erivo: So I needed to make sure that my body was ready to take on all of that. So I get ready in the morning, I get in, depending on when they needed me in the chair, could be 6 o'clock, could be 5 o'clock, depends.

[39:41] Cynthia Erivo: And I'd be in the chair for 2 hours and 45 minutes to sometimes 4 hours. When we had full body, it was 4 hours because we would sometimes have full body. So anytime between that amount of time.

[39:52] Kevin Bianchi: And what is the greenifying process?

[39:54] Cynthia Erivo: So greenifying process is we have airbrushing with paint. It's like an alcohol based paint. We'd have a primer first. They made green specific to me. So there were greens that had my tone in it.

[40:16] Cynthia Erivo: So there's like a highlighting yellow almost in the green airbrushing paint. And there's like a warmer yellow in the primer so that my skin tone would still come through to a point, but the green would match me.

[40:36] Cynthia Erivo: We tried a bunch of different greens before we landed. And then this green was made because the first green had pink in it and it was too chalky. So we needed something that was a bit warmer so it would match my skin tone.

[40:51] Cynthia Erivo: And what we would do is put in the definition first with a deep, deep, like a dark purple, almost black, my cheekbones and my freckles. I want to say my freckles would go on after. So we have primer, then the definition would go into cheekbones and freckles would go on.

[41:13] Quincy Brown: Were freckles always a choice from the get-go?

[41:16] Cynthia Erivo: Freckles were a choice immediately. I was like, I think she should have freckles. I think because there's something about the freckles that makes her really endearing and it sort of opens up the face. And I thought that was a really cool thing to try.

[41:32] Cynthia Erivo: And also it gave me, because I thought about all of the things that we associate with witches. So it's like the wart on the nose or the wart on the chin. And what I loved was that I thought of those things as folklore. So what was originally a beauty spot turned into a wart.

[41:55] Cynthia Erivo: So you see all these freckles and then there's one that just is like on its own and there's one that's on its own. So when we move further on, you'll see that more freckles appear, but they're in different places.

[42:06] Quincy Brown: Interesting.

[42:08] Cynthia Erivo: As is what would happen when you grow older. And so we would, again, prime, put in our definition and the freckles would go on. We made a vacuum form of my face and poked the holes in the freckles so that the freckles would stay in exactly the same place every single time.

[42:30] Quincy Brown: Brilliant.

[42:31] Cynthia Erivo: So that was what we would do. And then the airbrush would go over. Now my head would be airbrushed because when you put the wig on, my scalp also needs to be green.

[42:42] Cynthia Erivo: So when my hair moves around, you see my scalp through the braids, but it's my scalp that is green, which I love because it meant that it felt like it's all connected. And the wig itself had tinted green lace. So it disappeared on my head.

[43:03] Cynthia Erivo: I didn't necessarily need to take out my piercings. Now, they weren't earrings like this, but they were all flat studs. So we had prosthetics over my ears. So we do prosthetics to cover up the holes in the piercings. So the ears that you see aren't my, they're my ears, but they're not, they're covered by a prosthetic.

[43:20] Quincy Brown: Right.

[43:21] Cynthia Erivo: But the prosthetic is my color first. So they would actually spray that to be the matching green.

[43:27] Quincy Brown: This process.

[43:29] Cynthia Erivo: It's really, the wig itself was always styled. And we, we knew that we, you'll see that there's like a little baby hair, there's like a little curly baby hair that's always in the front of my head. We were very specific about that one kiss curl, tiny little baby curl that was always in it. Sometimes it's facing this way, sometimes it's facing that way, but it's always there.

[43:49] Cynthia Erivo: But my wig stylist and wig maker worked together to make sure that the hair would change as we go along. So in the beginning, it's sort of in the side braid, tight together. And you'll notice as we go through, it gets looser and looser. So then it gets, you know, we have the rolls.

[44:11] Cynthia Erivo: And that, when we get after the, after the Oz dust, and she's been galindified, I asked for them to give me a hairstyle that was galinda adjacent, which is why you get that sort of like,

[44:25] Quincy Brown: right, and down.

[44:25] Cynthia Erivo: And then when she's, when Fiyero walks by and says, you don't have to do that, you know, that role becomes this. So it's like a proper Victoria role. And then the rest is just like, so she touched, she starts to find herself stylistically, as we move through the piece.

[44:48] Cynthia Erivo: And the braids get a little longer, and they get a little freer, they get a little wavier. So there's more movement in it.

[44:59] Quincy Brown: You're gonna be stunning in the second movie.

[45:01] Cynthia Erivo: The way we're trending. It's a thing. It's a thing. And it does, it just it does change the trajectory of it is like it's moving towards something that feels freer and wilder. And it's a lot and I love I love what we what we how we grew it. None of the makeup on my face except for the definition is any other color than green.

[45:22] Cynthia Erivo: So eyeliner is green. The lash, the eyeshadow, green, lipstick, green, right liner, green, it's all shades of green. But we found all the different shades of green so that we could find dimension and things and something I wanted because I was like, what I want is it all to come from the shades that she like it's her.

[45:47] Cynthia Erivo: So we used loads of different things. And we had like a green gel. So the palms of her hands were green, but they still look like palms, right? So they're not the same as the back of her hand. They're very much like, you know how your palms are lighter than the rest of you. Yeah, the green is slightly less than slightly translucent. So my skin tone comes through, but it's still green.

[46:07] Quincy Brown: We keep it coming.

[46:37] Cynthia Erivo: Yes.

[47:08] Cynthia Erivo: different enough for us to think, well, this isn't just isn't just like a full set of nails. It's just some how her DNA does something to the way things grow. So she has nails. And so we, we went through a set of different ideas of what the nails could look like. And then we settled on the idea that the it's just an extension of the green.

[47:31] Cynthia Erivo: So the first time you see her nails, they're just that they're sort of Jade-esque. They're like an ombre green that get lighter towards the tip. And when she goes to the Emerald City, it changes because she gets there, we see them get their nails done, right? And then they become darker on purpose, because we're moving in that direction. And that is also something that progresses.

[47:57] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[48:28] Cynthia Erivo: And so we went on a search for the right eye color. There were these green lenses that were really pretty. There are a pair of hazel lenses that were cool. We had some lenses painted.

[48:41] Cynthia Erivo: Wow.

[48:42] Cynthia Erivo: And one with like blue, like a blue iris, but like a hazel around it and the one with the green. We tried them all and some of them felt too far away. And you couldn't get, you couldn't see through. Yeah, you can't see through to me. And he was like, it kind of cuts the audience off, it cuts us off and we want to see your emotion. And the hazel didn't transform enough.

[49:07] Quincy Brown: You almost forget you're green watching the movie.

[49:20] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. I kind of wanted that. I kind of wanted it to feel like, oh, she's been in this skin her whole life. She sees this every day.

[49:33] Cynthia Erivo: This is not novel to her.

[49:35] Quincy Brown: No. Yeah.

[49:36] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. What is the de-greening process every day?

[49:40] Cynthia Erivo: An hour and a half long.

[49:46] Quincy Brown: We're doing this every day?

[49:48] Cynthia Erivo: Every day. Most of the time, I would be the last person on set because I was still taking everything off.

[49:54] Cynthia Erivo: Oh, my God.

[49:56] Cynthia Erivo: I didn't go home with any of it. And if I went home with it, I couldn't take it off myself. So there's like a particular like oil or balm that takes all the green off. I just, and we would have full skincare the whole lot. And then I would go back because you would inevitably be left with like a sheen of green. So I would, when I would get back home, I would then do another wash to get it all off.

[50:23] Quincy Brown: Did you have any skin issues through this process?

[50:25] Cynthia Erivo: No, my skin was the best it's ever been in my life.

[50:28] Quincy Brown: Wow.

[50:29] Cynthia Erivo: Insane. I don't know how that happened.

[50:31] Quincy Brown: Now that we are green.

[50:34] Cynthia Erivo: Now that we're green, we then go into costume. And the costume was layers of things.

[50:40] Quincy Brown: Right.

[50:42] Cynthia Erivo: So it's like, we've got, sometimes if we, if we were under, if, if I had like, man, most of my sleeves were kind of like sheer and see through. So you can see my arms. And the problem with that is that if it's underneath, and it's rubbing on things, then the makeup comes off.

[50:58] Cynthia Erivo: So we created like a netted top that went under everything that sort of stopped here where my, where my makeup would stop if my arms were covered. And so it was the perfect match of green to the rest of me.

[51:16] Cynthia Erivo: So you have that. And then if we have tights on, we would have one pair of the green tights that match everything. So there's like a body type, the whole thing before my, my, which I love my fishnets.

[51:30] Cynthia Erivo: Yes.

[51:31] Cynthia Erivo: The pattern fishnets that we, that came on. If we have those, and then I'm corseted all the time.

[51:40] Quincy Brown: Real corset?

[51:41] Cynthia Erivo: No, a real corset.

[51:42] Quincy Brown: Okay.

[51:43] Cynthia Erivo: Pulled corset before the shirt and before the dress or whichever costume went on.

[51:50] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[51:51] Cynthia Erivo: That was the, that was the vibes for the day. And then if we're flying that day, so we had loads of different copies of things. We needed the copy of the costumes with pit points and pit points are basically costumes made with holes where the joints can come through so that when I put my harness on, they can also hook me to the wires.

[52:14] Quincy Brown: Right. Yeah. Take us into Defying Gravity. You're shooting Defying Gravity today.

[52:17] Cynthia Erivo: I'm shooting Defying Gravity. We have a dress, first of all, because we're moving through so much, my dresses had to be fit often. So we needed a fit me, but we also needed space for my harness. There are, I think, two or three different harnesses for different stunts.

[52:39] Cynthia Erivo: The standard flying up and down easy is the most sort of like easygoing harness.

[52:47] Quincy Brown: And were you doing all your stunt work?

[52:49] Cynthia Erivo: Yes.

[52:50] Quincy Brown: Okay.

[52:52] Cynthia Erivo: I still have my corset on. I still have my costume on, all of that. And then you put the harness on top of that.

[52:57] Quincy Brown: Right.

[52:59] Cynthia Erivo: And those need to be pretty snug because you're flying.

[53:04] Quincy Brown: Mm-hmm.

[53:05] Cynthia Erivo: There's nothing, you know, flying, which I found deeply thrilling. But those days were really interesting because once you're in the harness, you don't want to come out of the harness because it takes forever to get everything packed again and wires and whatnot.

[53:25] Cynthia Erivo: So those days can be really, they can be really big. They can be really exhausting because your body's being put through the strangest things.

[53:32] Quincy Brown: And you're holding your bladder while you're flying around?

[53:35] Cynthia Erivo: I don't go to the bathroom. Once I'm in my costume, and this is probably a terrible idea, but once I'm in that costume and the harness is on, I'm not doing it. I'm just not playing. I'm not dealing with it. There's too many layers. I'm not dealing with it. I'm not going to the bathroom. It is what it is.

[53:56] Quincy Brown: Okay.

[53:58] Cynthia Erivo: Are we in the costume at 7am in the morning, 8am in the morning? Great. We'll be in it for the next 14, 12 hours. Good luck.

[54:04] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[54:05] Cynthia Erivo: I'll see you there. I'm not doing it. I'm not. I'm not doing it. So that's what I would do. I would like figure it out. And that's what we're, that's, I'm not. And everyone would be like, do you need the bathroom? No, I don't need the bathroom.

[54:16] Cynthia Erivo: Let's go again.

[54:17] Quincy Brown: I don't. Let's go.

[54:18] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[54:19] Cynthia Erivo: Let's go. We're in it. Let's go. Let's go. And that's what would happen. And we, we would do these, like I loved flying, but it was, you would, the only time you would change the harness is when you would need to change into a different, where you're doing a different stunt.

[54:37] Cynthia Erivo: And those days can just be really exhausting. Your body goes through a lot because what happens when you're flying is that if you have to do something like there's a, there's a moment where I do that, like loop around.

[54:51] Cynthia Erivo: That is not the wires doing the loop. The wires are taking me from a to B. I have to get my body over. So you're figuring out where to place the weight. And sometimes it goes horribly wrong. And at the next slot behind you, and you're just like, I don't know how to do this. And you realize, oh, I have to put tension in my hips and my legs as I bring it round behind me in order to fly in straight.

[55:18] Quincy Brown: So you just have to learn like the aerodynamics of like where things go.

[55:22] Cynthia Erivo: I'm like, who else could have played this part? This could only be you.

[55:27] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. Well, he decided that he wanted to find everything to feel like a combination of all of the like iconic superhero moves that you've seen. So there's that one where I whip round across the screen and that's like Spider-Man. And then there's a spin up, which is like Wonder Woman. And then there's the loop, which is like Superman, like all of those things he sort of like put together.

[55:52] Cynthia Erivo: And that was the nature of The Beast, like figuring out how to do it all together and figuring out what the dynamics would be. And that was like a long shooting process because we started that piece, we started Defying Gravity, maybe, I want to say we did it in May, April, and didn't finish until January this year, because of the writers and actors strike.

[56:21] Quincy Brown: Right. Well, it is such a long sequence in the movie. It's very much built out.

[56:27] Cynthia Erivo: Yes.

[56:28] Quincy Brown: Which actually, how did that...

[56:37] Cynthia Erivo: Takes the breath out of you.

[56:39] Cynthia Erivo: That little girl, she's so sweet, so lovely. And I loved seeing her little face and just like the wonder in it. I remember when I first met her, I met her when I was in the makeup. She was so sort of, oh my gosh, you know, just enamored.

[57:02] Cynthia Erivo: And whenever we could have some time together, if our paths crossed, which was not a lot, but we got a little time to be in the same space together. I remember we were shooting a scene and she hadn't seen me fly yet. So I asked if she wanted to see me fly. And she was like, yeah, I want to see you fly.

[57:21] Cynthia Erivo: So they bring her in by the monitor. And it's just like a descent in. So this is one of those, I like the flight, the taking off and the descending, because it was like really nice. We found out like what the language was like, how does she land? And you'll see more of that that's coming.

[57:35] Quincy Brown: Did you get hurt at all through any of this?

[57:37] Cynthia Erivo: Only chafing. And chafing sounds funny until you actually have it. I mean, like my skin on my hips was burnt. And it was like, it took so long to heal. It just took forever. You get bruised, you get like, I think, well, maybe I did get hurt. And I just can't remember. Like, I'm sure like, I definitely had a bleeding, like a bloody nose at one point. Like, I don't know what happened. Can't tell you. Like broken nails.

[58:06] Cynthia Erivo: Because even like landing on your knees and whatnot.

[58:10] Cynthia Erivo: I was fine. With the landings and the fall. Like I was totally fine. Flying was like, that felt wonderful. You figure it out. And the only thing was like, what the harness does to you after a long period of time. You are in it for hours and hours and you are up.

[58:25] Quincy Brown: Right. It's pulling on your skin. Yeah.

[58:55] Cynthia Erivo: Oh.

[59:25] Cynthia Erivo: She knows that she's playing the little version of this, which is awesome.

[59:31] Quincy Brown: Okay. So hearing all that goes into playing Elphaba, what would you say was the most challenging aspect of it for you personally?

[59:41] Cynthia Erivo: I mean, it was all it's all very challenging because it's because nothing what I used to say to Ari, none of this, nothing is a small day. Everything is a big day. Everything.

[59:52] Cynthia Erivo: None of what you just said sounds easy.

[59:53] Cynthia Erivo: No day was like a small, okay. Well, just no day was that. Every day was like something. If it is it, I'm not that girl. Okay. That's a big day because it's like me on my own and we're in forest. It's like all of these elements coming together. And you know, is it the wizard and I, that's not a small day.

[1:00:13] Cynthia Erivo: It's like, and just because of the way he saw what this was to be, you'll notice that she starts at the bottom of the school and ends at the very top of a mountain. So he makes her ascend literally.

[1:00:30] Quincy Brown: And then sprint.

[1:00:31] Cynthia Erivo: But she never flies. And then, and then exactly. And then she's like on it. And, and, but she doesn't go.

[1:00:37] Quincy Brown: Right up to the precipice of it.

[1:00:41] Cynthia Erivo: That's not a small day. None of it. I think that the, I think it was sort of, I think maybe the hardest thing for me was to, to not look at everything as one big task, but to try to compartmentalize the moments that we were having to make.

[1:01:04] Cynthia Erivo: Because they're all, they all mean something. They're all big moments and they all require a lot of us.

[1:01:15] Cynthia Erivo: Emotionally. I mean, The Answer to Us was really hard emotionally, but then sitting down and talking about how her father hates her and then looking in the mirror and being told that she's beautiful.

[1:01:34] Cynthia Erivo: Like that was an emotional moment and having to like, how do we, how do we vacillate so we don't tip so far into it that we can't come back? You know, because once we're, when we're in, we like, where do we, how do we, how do we manage and measure how much she lets herself go and when?

[1:01:54] Cynthia Erivo: You know, because she's sort of like reverberating with like hurt and pain. It's like it's there. So she doesn't necessarily live in it because it's sort of like literally in her skin. Like it's on her. It's always like at the surface. So it's about how much do we give and how much do we hold?

[1:02:19] Quincy Brown: And that was, I think that was one of the things that I had to like figure out. I like her rhythm. She's not, she's not, she doesn't have the same rhythm as me. She doesn't sound like me. You know, so it's like managing what that is. She's a little drier. Takes her time a little bit more, you know.

[1:02:37] Quincy Brown: We've been talking about what we love so much about your take on the role is she's not angry at the world. Like she accepts that this is how she's viewed and she's like made peace with that. She's not holding it against anyone. That's just, it is what it is. Yeah. I think that's like a really special twist.

[1:02:53] Cynthia Erivo: I, but I think that came naturally because I, I, I believed that she's for someone who's been in this, she's been in the skin forever. It's, it is not a surprise to her when someone is like, oh, that doesn't surprise it. Does it hurt? Yes. Is it surprising? No, it's something she's, it's, this is an everyday for her. So you can't be mad at the world if the world just is what it is.

[1:03:20] Cynthia Erivo: You know, it's something she's experienced her whole life. And I think that she's also experienced, you know, aspects like love, whether it be from Dulciber or her sister. And she does love her sister. And she does love Dulciber. And I think to a degree, she loves her father and wants love back.

[1:03:47] Cynthia Erivo: But, but if I just thought if she's mad at the world the entire time, how does she, how would she function? How do you, how do you function past that? And, and also there has to be, you need room. We, I want to get to rage because she does get to rage. But if we start there, we have nowhere to go.

[1:04:11] Cynthia Erivo: I want, I wanted her to start with a little bit of hope. I want, I want whoever's watching to think, oh, there's hope. It might not go as bad as we, it might not go, it might not go bad. She might connect. There might be connection and she does connect because if she was mad at the world, her and Fiera would not even, it wouldn't happen. They wouldn't cross paths. She wouldn't even give him the time of day.

[1:04:35] Cynthia Erivo: He wouldn't give her the time of day. They wouldn't, they wouldn't connect at all. And somehow they connect. And she can't be mad at the world if she cares deeply about these animals. There has to be love there. She has to have, she has to have an inkling of things can be better. And I can be, I can be a person who can make things better.

[1:04:59] Cynthia Erivo: You can't be mad at the world and do that. You can be frustrated. You can be moved by it. But if you're mad at it, if you're angry at it all the time, you can't, how can you get past that?

[1:05:21] Quincy Brown: Okay. We have to let you go, but there are a couple more things we want to touch on. Talk about having. Oh my goodness. All right. I think it's time to ask. Yes. Are you a wizard? And I, I love this question. Are you a wizard? And I define gravity or no good deed alphabet. It can mean whatever you want it to mean. All we ask is that you explain why.

[1:05:51] Cynthia Erivo: Cause I knew I'd be asked the question and I'm gonna, and this isn't a cop out by any means, but it is because of the experience of this and I'm all of them because the wizard and I is hope.

[1:06:07] Cynthia Erivo: Defying gravity is a proclamation of oneself and, and, and exceeding everyone else's expectations and your own.

[1:06:20] Cynthia Erivo: And no good deed is the ownership of your, of your rage and pain. And I can be any one of those on any given day and have been.

[1:06:32] Cynthia Erivo: And need to have all of those within you.

[1:06:35] Cynthia Erivo: I need to have all of those within me. I'm not ashamed of hurt and anger and pain. It has taken a long time to get to where I am. And that feels many times, like I've had to fly above the expectations of even myself.

[1:06:52] Cynthia Erivo: And the wizard and I is something that is a hope and a bright light that feels like I, it has to run through everything. You have to believe that anything is possible all the time.

[1:07:09] Cynthia Erivo: And if I didn't believe that anything was possible, if I didn't believe that anything's possible, I probably wouldn't be sitting here talking about this.

[1:07:17] Quincy Brown: That's beautiful. We had our money on you saying, I'm not that girl.

[1:07:21] Cynthia Erivo: I'm not that girl. I love that song so much because what I love about it is that it is. She knows that she's so different and she might not ever be the girl that gets picked, but that's okay.

[1:07:40] Cynthia Erivo: And I love that. Because it's so true many times. For me, it's really true often. And I'm okay with being the one that isn't the one that gets picked all the time. Because when I am picked, I'm meant to be picked.

[1:08:03] Quincy Brown: And what you do with that song in the movie is so singular and inspired. Really floored me.

[1:08:08] Cynthia Erivo: Thank you.

[1:08:09] Quincy Brown: Okay, we're gonna wrap with a quick rapid fire about you can answer with your castmates. Okay, we're gonna take turns. We did this with Ariana and it was crazy.

[1:08:24] Kevin Bianchi: Chaotic and crazy. Yeah.

[1:08:27] Quincy Brown: All right. Most likely to be first to set?

[1:08:31] Cynthia Erivo: Ariana.

[1:08:33] Quincy Brown: Most likely to be the last one to leave set?

[1:08:35] Cynthia Erivo: Cynthia.

[1:08:36] Quincy Brown: Okay.

[1:08:37] Cynthia Erivo: Or Ariana, because she liked to hang around, but it would be me often.

[1:08:40] Quincy Brown: Most likely to option up during a song?

[1:08:42] Cynthia Erivo: Both of us.

[1:08:45] Quincy Brown: Most likely to take a keepsake from set?

[1:08:47] Cynthia Erivo: Ariana.

[1:08:48] Quincy Brown: Most likely to stay in character after the camera stops rolling?

[1:08:53] Cynthia Erivo: I think Ariana, but by default, me, I don't realize I'm still there, but I am.

[1:08:59] Quincy Brown: Most likely to break character?

[1:09:00] Cynthia Erivo: Ariana.

[1:09:02] Quincy Brown: That's interesting.

[1:09:03] Cynthia Erivo: Or Bowen. Bowen would.

[1:09:07] Quincy Brown: Most likely to get the shot in one take?

[1:09:09] Cynthia Erivo: Michelle Yeoh.

[1:09:11] Quincy Brown: Okay. And the last one, most likely to cry on set?

[1:09:16] Cynthia Erivo: Both of us.

[1:09:19] Quincy Brown: Ariana didn't be like, is this a bit? The answer is me for every question.

[1:09:24] Cynthia Erivo: We cried a lot. She cried immediately.

[1:09:27] Cynthia Erivo: And it would, I would be like, we have things to do, but then it would come.

[1:09:32] Cynthia Erivo: I would resist for a little bit and then it would all fall to pieces.

[1:09:36] Cynthia Erivo: And then what are we supposed to do?

[1:09:38] Cynthia Erivo: We, you know, that set was, we had tissues all over the place.

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