This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Ariana Grande: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo. And you're listening to The Sentimental Men Podcast.

[0:05] Quincy Brown: Visit vpn.fm to discover more.

[0:14] Kevin Bianchi: They cheered for my resistance, but they broke my decline.

[0:21] Quincy Brown: Oh, I saw Death Becomes Her.

[0:24] Kevin Bianchi: I did too. Do you want to talk about it?

[0:28] Quincy Brown: Yeah, you tell me. Okay, well, as you know, it's one of my favorite movies. So I was going in with high hopes. I don't want to say high expectations, because that makes it sound like I was ready to be disappointed. I had high hopes. And I really, really liked it. I thought it was really funny in a way that it felt 2024 funny, if that makes sense.

[0:50] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. It moved so quickly. Like it started, Act 1 especially, I think, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're going and then it's intermission.

[1:01] Quincy Brown: Yes. That was my first time seeing Megan Hilty live on stage, which was really fun.

[1:06] Kevin Bianchi: Uh-huh. That duo Jensen Maher is amazing.

[1:09] Quincy Brown: Oh, but oh my god. Guess who was there?

[1:12] Kevin Bianchi: Who?

[1:13] Quincy Brown: Nothing. Stephanie J. Block.

[1:15] Kevin Bianchi: No.

[1:16] Quincy Brown: Yeah, we got to have a little kiki. Also sitting behind me directly behind me. It was Betty Buckley. It was kind of a poppin' night.

[1:29] Kevin Bianchi: Oh my god. Wait, you saw Death Becomes Her with both Edwin Droods.

[1:33] Quincy Brown: Oh my god. I wonder if Stephanie even knows that. Wow. Wait, I got to tell Casey. I'm truly gagged. I didn't even connect those dots. Oh my god. That's crazy. I mean, that's two truths and a lie for you. Keep that in your back pocket.

[1:47] Kevin Bianchi: Well, one, as I was watching that show after we had talked, I was like, Stephanie could do this. Stephanie could do either one of these roles. Stephanie could do either of those roles and I feel like Stephanie could do it like Little Foxes with someone else. You could do both of those roles and they switch. Maybe not every night, maybe like every other week. Stephanie and like Leslie Margarita.

[2:10] Quincy Brown: Yes. Or Leslie Kritzer. Leslie Kritzer would be fabulous. Stephanie and Leslie Kritzer. Well, either. Either Leslie. Either. Either. I think you would want to put Stephanie in the Jensen Maher track. However, when I was watching it, all I could do was picture her pulling off full and like in hilty drag doing blond hair.

[2:29] Kevin Bianchi: Oh my god. I feel like Stephanie Jeanette Block would really thrive as Madeline Ashton because I think that aligns with the kind of goofy that... Well, that's why the humor, the style of humor is Stephanie J Block's style of humor. And then she has that pretty soprano, too, I would love to hear.

[2:51] Quincy Brown: Yeah, it's really fun. Everyone go see it. It's expensive looking. That is an expensive production. It's lush. Lush, baby. Paul Tazewell. Oh. Doesn't disappoint.

[3:06] Kevin Bianchi: Nice. Maybe he wins a Tony and an Oscar this year. That'd be cute. I also haven't seen Shit Meat Fan at MCC. That was so freaking good. It's the best thing I've seen in a long time. Highly recommend.

[3:19] Quincy Brown: Really? So funny. And it's like Jane Krakowski, Deborah Messing, Neil Patrick Harris.

[3:24] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. Michael Oberholzer, Constance Wu. And I hadn't heard much about it other than that cast. So I didn't know what to expect. I haven't stopped thinking about it since.

[3:35] Quincy Brown: Okay. I'm intrigued. How are you?

[3:38] Kevin Bianchi: I'm good. I have a new installment in funny things that my students say to tell you.

[3:42] Quincy Brown: Let's hear it.

[3:42] Kevin Bianchi: Word got out about the podcast. Everyone at school was like, Mr. Bianchi, you're on my For You page. I didn't tell you this. There was a deluge of YouTube comments of people being like, hi, Mr. Bianchi.

[3:53] Quincy Brown: Yeah, that's them.

[3:54] Kevin Bianchi: We're at the beginning of class, and this one girl's walking in and she goes, Mr. Bianchi, is it true you met Ariana Grande? And before I can even inhale to answer this little girl, here's the question. And without missing a beat, she goes, yeah, on a Zoom call. I'm sure there is a snarky gay in Hell's Kitchen who would say the same. I was like, yeah, yeah, on a Zoom call. You're right. That's funny.

[4:27] Quincy Brown: Before we get into our Cynthia extended convo, should we listen to a movie reaction from a listener?

[4:32] Kevin Bianchi: Yes, we should.

[4:42] Bria: Hi, Sentimental Pi. My name is Bria. I was privileged enough to have seen Wicked tonight for the Amazon Prime advance screenings on the 18th.

[4:49] Quincy Brown: Slay, Bria. Slay.

[4:50] Bria: I got just like so many thoughts. I've reported this like four times now, and every time I finish recording, I'm like, no, I forgot to say this, but everyone is fast, amazing. The shots and just all the like the little, not even new, but just like the execution of these songs and line reading and the fateful lines of the show and the hints to the novels in the cameos. Amazing. Like, just amazing.

[5:34] Quincy Brown: Also, just for a visual for people to understand just how amazing and good this movie was. My screening ended like around like, I want to say 10 p.m. and me and a lot of others in my theater did not leave until the screen was black. We knew there was nothing to be continued in the title card, but we remained there because we were soaking it all in.

[6:02] Kevin Bianchi: You did, yeah.

[6:03] Bria: I did cry and that was the Oz dust scene. How can you not? I almost cried during Dividing Gravity, but there was just so much going on, and I found myself even like not even blinking as much. Like I had to keep in my head and remind myself to blink, but I just didn't want to because I wanted to soak everything in like I didn't want to miss anything. I can't wait to watch this in 3D on Sunday because I feel like it's going to be such a joy and a blast.

[6:33] Quincy Brown: Oh, I mean I heard 4DX is the movie.

[6:39] Bria: There is, there's like minor things now that I'm thinking about that I think are so funny that I have to give props to. So I have to give props to Fero's horse. I just feel like if I was Elphaba in part two, I'm not saving that horse or I'm not defending them because we got beat because Lauren, you left it by that long. Like you're a blue horse.

[7:05] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, it was a snarky horse. Oh, I see what she's saying. I get it.

[7:11] Bria: Yeah. Michelle Yeoh, like we know that she's good. She got her Oscar and everything that my goodness. And it was like, I know about this character, but it was like we just watching her before your eyes unveil like a butterfly, like show her true colors. Oh, I was like, oh my gosh, she's an evil. I mean, her, I mean, Glinda. That moment is chilling.

[7:39] Quincy Brown: Yeah. You don't care about me, but Glinda's not. I think I know that she's just so overwhelmed that she's not even processing this. Michelle Yeoh definitely brings out the parts.

[7:56] Bria: Chistory, I just want to hug him. I'm so sorry. That scene was like crazy to watch because you really just felt like the empathy for these markings. I don't need to be touching Chistory though. Dr. Dillman, amazing. All the animals. Dr. Dillman, best character. It was like, I know the story of Wicked, but it was like, I was so in my emotions with the Ozdust scene because it just felt so personal to me.

[8:32] Quincy Brown: Then you go back to Dr. Dillman being taken away and I'm like, oh yeah, like there's multiple messages and stories of this movie. And that is the message. I'm like, oh my gosh, just to process all of it and I feel like with times going on now, it's just super parallel to the world.

[8:56] Kevin Bianchi: Oh yes. I mean, it's definitely what the world needs. We are not watching this movie in Kamala's America. Also, just the second we, I don't even know why it soon was going to be the opening for the movie. I knew, obviously, no one mourns the Wicked, but I was like, I don't think it's going to open on just set alone. But when it started, I was like, oh, this is serious. This is a movie.

[9:27] Quincy Brown: I agree. I kind of thought something else was going to happen. John is not playing. We waited 20 years for this show.

[9:31] Kevin Bianchi: I'm glad it didn't though. Yeah. I liked that it was just the overture.

[9:31] Bria: Eleanor or Melina. Oh my gosh, what a woman. What a woman. I mean, I've read freaking The Life and Time of the Wicked Witch of the West and I was like, this woman is crazy. She's not claiming Elphaba as her daughter. Girl, come on now. I'm so grateful to get to see IMAX. I'm going to see IMAX again on Thursday. And this is definitely going to be a comfort watch. Oh my gosh, I can't wait for it to be available on my home screens. Next year cannot come fast enough, but I'm grateful that we have this. We'll have the soundtrack. But yes, it's definitely a thousand out of ten for sure.

[10:21] Quincy Brown: Speaking of soundtrack, they released the Defying Gravity and Popular edit versions because they're climbing up the Billboard charts, which I love. And I'm very grateful for it because now we've got versions that I can put on a playlist that just go right into the song, which has always kind of been an issue. Congratulations to Michelle Yeoh. Billboard top 100. I think Popular and Defying Gravity could crack the top 10.

[10:46] Kevin Bianchi: Let's make it happen, guys. Let's do it for them because they did it for us.

[10:52] Quincy Brown: Thanks for your message, Bria. I am desperate to see the movie in IMAX. I've yet to do that.

[10:57] Kevin Bianchi: Same, same.

[10:59] Quincy Brown: The opening sequence is circulating TikTok. And so I did rewatch it and I saw the shot of the horse riding away. I'm still not sure if I have a theory on that yet or if I subscribe to your theory.

[11:15] Kevin Bianchi: Okay, so let me know when you come around. I'm trying to get like the map of Oz down as it stands in the movie.

[11:24] Quincy Brown: Like Jeff Goldblum's set model. Because I think that opening sequence, not to harp on this again, is zooming towards Chase in the movie.

[11:37] Kevin Bianchi: From Kiamako over the yellow brick road towards the Emerald City.

[11:43] Quincy Brown: So she would be riding to the Emerald City?

[11:46] Kevin Bianchi: Well, no, she was going in the other direction, though, I think. Because remember, it goes over a waterfall and the horse is before the water.

[11:54] Quincy Brown: Gotta watch it again.

[11:56] Kevin Bianchi: Kick still open. I gotta go see it in IMAX so that I can really see the details.

[12:02] Quincy Brown: All right, let's get into the Cynthia interview. We talk the Idina and Kristen cameo.

[12:10] Kevin Bianchi: Mm hmm.

[12:11] Quincy Brown: I did just watch a clip of Jon M. Chu talking about how they landed on this moment of Idina and Kristen.

[12:18] Kevin Bianchi: What's the tea?

[12:19] Quincy Brown: He was like, you know, we always knew we always knew they were going to be in the movie, but we didn't know where. And then he said, originally, the Wizzomania section was going to be like, and it's a small world ride that they went on.

[12:31] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, seeing the history of the Old Wise Ones?

[12:38] Quincy Brown: Which then I like that idea kind of like marries well with his little like model set of, yeah, it all feels very like Walt Disney World's Fair kind of vibes.

[12:48] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, maybe that'll be the Universal Studios ride.

[12:51] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[12:53] Kevin Bianchi: Well, I still I want to define gravity roller coaster, though. What rides would you want?

[12:57] Quincy Brown: I want to be on a roller coaster and hear Defying Gravity blasting in my ears at full volume so I can feel like I'm flying. And I want like all the Pirates of the Caribbean shiz just like get on a boat and ride.

[13:14] Kevin Bianchi: Through the Enchanted Forest.

[13:16] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[13:17] Kevin Bianchi: Off the shiz campus, out into the Enchanted Forest, down through the Oz Dust.

[13:24] Quincy Brown: Wow. Are we amusement park designers?

[13:29] Kevin Bianchi: All right. Enjoy the extended interview.

[13:32] Quincy Brown: See you later.

[13:33] Kevin Bianchi: Bye.

[13:34] Quincy Brown: I'm Quincy.

[13:36] Kevin Bianchi: And I'm Kevin.

[13:38] Quincy Brown: And this is Sentimental Men.

[13:40] Kevin Bianchi: We're here to talk and maybe scream about our favorite women in musical theater.

[13:53] Quincy Brown: Cynthia Erivo, thank you so much for joining us on Sentimental Men today.

[13:57] Cynthia Erivo: Oh, it feels good to say. Such a moment.

[14:00] Quincy Brown: During the midst of like the craziest moment of the Wicked Press tour.

[14:04] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah, yeah. It's actually nuts. We leave for Australia in three or four days.

[14:12] Kevin Bianchi: Is that the first premiere?

[14:13] Cynthia Erivo: That's the first premiere, yeah.

[14:14] Kevin Bianchi: Gotcha. And then you're just traveling the world.

[14:16] Cynthia Erivo: Yes.

[14:16] Quincy Brown: How are you feeling in this moment?

[14:18] Cynthia Erivo: I'm feeling really excited. I thought I would be more tired than I am. I'm not. So I feel like I'm sort of ready to get going. I say that now. Speak to me in two days. But I'm excited. I think it's gonna be really special.

[14:34] Kevin Bianchi: Okay, so we start every interview with how did Wicked the Musical come into your life as just a person?

[14:39] Cynthia Erivo: Wicked the Musical came into my life when I was about 20 years old at drama school. I was sort of like the odd one out at drama school. I always felt sort of different. And a friend of mine, or someone who became a friend, his name is Michael Peavoy. He could play piano, and I could sing. And he spotted me and was like, Hey, you, do you want to sing some stuff? And I said, well, yeah, sure. So he picked up a couple librettos. And one of those librettos happened to be Wicked. So we went to a little room with a piano, and we kept playing the music. And I learned the music before I saw the show.

[15:19] Kevin Bianchi: And what were you singing?

[15:24] Cynthia Erivo: Oh, the whole front to back. We were singing everything. So when I say I knew the music, I learned the libretto. We just went through day by day and back and went all the way through it often. So I knew everything. I think his favourite song, I want to say his favourite song was, it wasn't The Wizard and I. I think he kept asking me to sing that one. But we sang it all. It was a toss up between that and Dreamgirls. And then when I was 25, I took myself on a solo date to see the musical in London. And that's history.

[16:06] Kevin Bianchi: So then 10 years later. Do you remember who you saw in London as Elphaba and Glinda?

[16:11] Cynthia Erivo: I don't. And I think I went to see the show, not just to see the show, but also because I think a friend of mine was running the sound desk during that. But I can't remember who it was I saw.

[16:24] Quincy Brown: Talk to us about that first experience seeing it.

[16:28] Cynthia Erivo: I immediately took to Elphaba because I understood what it was like to just be different or not fitting in. And something went off in my brain. And I never forgot that moment. It was one of those moments that stuck with me. I said before that it felt like I floated home because I couldn't get the feeling. My head, I couldn't get out of my body. I remember loving it. I sat in the dresser or what you would call the, not the balcony, but like the...

[17:08] Kevin Bianchi: The mezzanine.

[17:08] Cynthia Erivo: The mezzanine where the flying monkeys come into the audience. And I felt like a kid. I was like, oh my God, what's happening? It's just, it was one of the most wonderful experiences because I felt like there was something I could, I'd recognized on the stage. And it was something I wanted to be a part of.

[17:36] Quincy Brown: Yeah. At that point, like when you're learning this music in drama school with your friend and you're seeing the show, are you identifying this as like, this is something I want to do in my career? You know, as an actress, I want to be in the show. I want to play this part.

[17:49] Cynthia Erivo: I didn't know if it was playing the part, but I knew I loved the music. So I think, I think the grand scheme of musical was something I knew that I wanted to be a part of my career for sure.

[18:02] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. I think when I saw it, I was like, oh, I like that part. There's something about that part that could, that feels good. That feels right.

[18:12] Quincy Brown: Yeah. So then as you started building your stage career, did the opportunity to play it on stage ever come up in those years?

[18:21] Cynthia Erivo: Really? Especially with the voice you have.

[18:24] Quincy Brown: No, it never came up.

[18:26] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah.

[18:27] Kevin Bianchi: Well, we now know there's a reason why it did.

[18:29] Cynthia Erivo: Yes. Yes.

[18:30] Quincy Brown: Everything for a reason. So then how did it come up? How did it come up to you the first time?

[18:35] Cynthia Erivo: With this film? I knew that they were seeing people for the film. And I told my team to not say anything to me at all. I don't want to know. Don't tell me anything unless it looks like it might come my way. Other than that, I was like, I don't want to know it. Don't tell me about it. Because I think a part of me was like, if I just ignore what's happening and it doesn't come my way, I won't feel that hurt by it. Because I think deep down, I knew that I would love to have been a part of it. So I was like, if I don't have, if I'm not connected, if I don't know anything about it, then I can, I can go on about my business. Like, it's just, yeah, I can protect myself and I'm good. But then, then I bumped into John at some event and we talked. And then we talked again. And then...

[19:34] Kevin Bianchi: Who brought up Wicked?

[19:37] Cynthia Erivo: I think he might have brought up Wicked. He said, so we're doing this. And I was like, I know. You're directing? Great. Yeah. And I think, and I think we were just sort of like having a discussion about what I felt this person would be and what their story was and this person meaning Elphaba and who she was and what she meant to me and what I could possibly bring to it. And I think he just took that into consideration. And then we, he went away. And I remember we had a conversation, the next conversation we had, so ridiculously bougie. The next conversation we had was, I think the day of the Met Gala. So the next conversation we had was the Met Gala 2020, 2022 or 2021. And I was in a hotel and we Zoomed and we just chatted about it. And then I got the call to say, they want you to go in.

[20:44] Kevin Bianchi: And I think I was the last person they saw.

[20:47] Quincy Brown: Right. Like, had you been hearing about other people going in for it at this point?

[20:50] Cynthia Erivo: And I kept telling them, just, I don't care. Don't tell me, please. I don't want to know. I don't want to know. And they were like, they might call you in. It looks like they might call you in. I said, when they call me in, tell me, please. And when they, when they called me in, it was, I, it was so respectful because they, he called me just to do, it was like a screen test, but it was three hours. I was there for three hours. I worked with two other actresses, scenes, songs, damn near all of them, which, and I was so ready for it. Because I remember when I, when I got the sides and the music, I trained like a boxer. So I ran things. Thank you so much. I ran whilst I was singing. I put pace and like just getting movement into my body so I could be ready to do it.

When I got there, I learned the singing in the shower over and over again, repeating everything over and over again, reading these scenes over and over again, because I just wanted to be, when I got there, I wanted to be so present in it that I wasn't really thinking about which words are coming out, which song was coming out. And I remember the day before I had a concert at Disney hall. This is the wildness of my life. I had a concert at Disney with the LA Philharmonic and Gustavo Didamel conducting. And I knew once I finished, I need to get home very quickly because I was in the next day early due to this audition. And I was, I just was so ready to go in and show what I had.

[22:29] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. So take us inside that first audition. What were you doing? And then how are you feeling after the fact?

[22:36] Cynthia Erivo: When I, the first audition I went in with, I was just like, ready, let's, let's go. Let's do this. I think it was early. We went through the music. We, because I think I got there and I was on my own for a little bit before the first actress showed up and we sort of practiced with the pianist who was there that day. It was very lovely. I remember that. No, he was very sweet and like, like warm. And he played beautifully as well, which is sometimes very rare at an audition. Like there was no rush. It was like, let's, let's play all the, all the incidentals. We're going to do all of that. You know? And I remember thinking, oh, this is nice. Oh, I can sing, sing with this. This is good. I went through the music with him and then the first actress comes in and then we start going through the scene work.

And I just, I remember feeling really present for all of it. And there was a point where John asked me about my relationship to Wicked and how I'd come to it. And when I, when I went to explain what happened at my drama school, it made me really emotional because I think I, it was the first time I'd realized that I really did feel out of sorts at drama school. Like I really didn't feel like I fit in that place. And this particular piece was a little space to go to that, where I did fit.

[24:10] Kevin Bianchi: Yes. No, that's, that's what this piece did for me whilst I was at drama school. And so I think that it dawned on me that that was what was happening at drama school. And to come around to it at this point, to do it this way, just felt really massive.

[24:27] Quincy Brown: Yeah. So how long was your audition process in all?

[24:32] Cynthia Erivo: That day, three hours. That was it?

[24:34] Kevin Bianchi: That was it. One and done?

[24:36] Cynthia Erivo: One and done.

[24:37] Quincy Brown: Wow. And to be clear, Ariana was not either of those chemistry reads.

[24:42] Cynthia Erivo: She was not, no.

[24:43] Kevin Bianchi: When did you get the call after that first audition?

[24:45] Cynthia Erivo: I want to say it was about two or three weeks after.

[24:49] Kevin Bianchi: Wow. That's fascinating. Because I think Ariana told us about, she had a three month process. She was in, she went in four or five times.

[24:56] Cynthia Erivo: Wow.

[24:57] Kevin Bianchi: And so what were those two, three weeks like?

[24:59] Cynthia Erivo: After it was like, I don't want to hear about it. I want to hear about it. It was hellish. It was like, when are we finding out for God's sakes, please? When are we finding out? And I was in the middle of, what was I doing? I think I was doing Luther at that point. So I was in London, like just waiting, just waiting. And biding my time and figuring it out and working. Just the anticipation of like, what is happening? Is it happening? Is it not happening? Have I got it? Have I not got it? What's going on? I think what John, I think John did both of us a favor. I think John did the wonderful thing of allowing Ariana to deconstruct the thing that has been built, the person who's been built, so that she could just be in the room.

And I think he did me the service of giving me the chance to lose it. It was mine to lose, I think. So the way he had set it up, so when he brought me in, I had all the tools I needed and I had the time I needed to be as ready as I possibly could be. And so it was sort of like, take it and run or leave it.

[26:09] Kevin Bianchi: Sounds like you felt very safe in that room.

[26:11] Cynthia Erivo: I did. No, I really did. So then you get the call. What is the first thought that comes into your head?

[26:18] Cynthia Erivo: I have to tell you how the call happens, though, because my team, they're dramatic, just dramatic, ridiculous and dramatic. I get an email that says, Cynthia, we've got this piece of IP and we think it could be really good for your production company. And you and Salome, who's my production partner, I think we need to jump on a call at some point. And then I get a text from my agent. Actually, you know what, Cynthia, I think we should jump on a call, like right now, because now it's going to go. And I know it's late there, but it's not so late here. But the author is ready to go and have a conversation about it. It's 1am in London. Oh my gosh. It's 1am in London. First of all, why does my team know that I'm going to be awake?

Why is that an OK thing to ask? They just know I'm going to be awake at 1am in the morning. And they're correct, because that's how I am. So I read this email. I'm like, OK. And I text back, OK, I'm ready. And I'm in my pyjamas. So I'm like, but my pyjamas don't look like pyjamas. So that's good. We'll keep that on. Let's put a pair of glasses on. Let's go. I'm ready. So I get myself set up on the sofa. And if I just have like that, you know.

[27:30] Kevin Bianchi: Right.

[27:31] Cynthia Erivo: Waist up. We're good. It's perfect. And I put this computer on. I get a Zoom link. Zoom link comes on. John Hsu's name comes up. It's 1am in the morning, remember. So I go, John Hsu. Maybe he knows something about the book. And faces start coming up on the screen. I'm still not. I still don't have it. I'm like, what is this book? I guess there's nothing to talk about. Maybe everyone's involved. Who knows? All right. Who's leading this meeting? Like nothing is connecting. Nothing's connecting. And then John starts to talk about this girl who was at this drama school who felt like she was out of sorts. And she goes to this room and sing the music. And then she walks into this room one day and starts singing about this green girl.

And I'm like, and now everything's starting to piece together. And I'm like, don't play with me. Don't play. And he goes, and I don't know what planet you came from, but I think the rest of the world should see more of you. And I just, I was lost it. I lost it. We want you to be our Elphaba. And I just, I don't even think I could, I couldn't be articulate. All I could do is cry. And in like, I have glasses on. I put my head and my arms, the glasses flip up over my head. I just am like, all I could say is thank you very much. Because it's sort of like the culmination of a dream that you didn't realize that you even had until you had to be in the situation of wanting the dream. It was the wildest moment ever.

I cannot tell you what happened for the rest of the night. Right. Like was there banter on the Zoom after? Did you hang up? I have no idea. I think we had a little chat. Everything was a blur after that. I don't know who I called after. I think I called my mom. It was 1am in the morning. I was like, it's 1am in the morning. Can't call my mom. Who do I call? Yeah. What time? How early is it too early to call anyone? Like what? I don't know if I slept that night. Did you know who your Glinda was in that call? Or did that come later?

[29:41] Cynthia Erivo: I think I found out a little later after that call. Like that same day. Gotcha. That it was Ari, which did not surprise me one bit. I was not surprised at all. I was deeply relieved because I knew it was going to be handled in the best way possible. That was like, oh, good. Fabulous. I was like, it was one of the most incredible moments to experience. One of the most surreal things to experience.

[30:12] Quincy Brown: So then what was the immediate excitement and also apprehension as you're coming to terms with the fact that you're about to embark on this journey?

[30:20] Cynthia Erivo: The excitement, I don't think either one of us could fathom how big this was. I think we had an idea of the fact that this was big. But I don't think we really let ourselves understand the size of it. Even seeing what it's doing now, I'm like, wow, this is a thing. This is a thing. I love Wicked and this is a thing. This is a thing. But every day feels like, oh, oh, this is like a thing. This is a thing. Yeah, yeah. When you see people running to Target and grabbing Stanley Cups and fighting over Stanley Cups, you're like, oh, this is a thing. A doll with your face on it. Yeah. I mean, hello. Comes to you and someone says, can you sign my doll? And you go, my face is on a doll. I'm a tell Barbie.

I'm a Barbie, guys. My nose and my lips are on a Barbie. Like, what is happening? None of us could fathom that this would be what it is right now. But I think we also what we did know intrinsically was how special this thing was. We were both really clear on the fact that we wanted to not just do a good job, but really take care of this, like, take as much care of this as we possibly could. And to do that, we did the opposite of fanfare. We sort of like went, right, zero in. How do we do this? Where do we begin? What do we need? And that's how we've done this from the beginning. She and I knew we needed to come together first without everybody. So she came to my house and we sat and we chatted.

We just like, we got to know each other. Then we went to John's house and just it was him, Winnie, Stephen Aramis, Stephen Schwartz, myself and Ari. And we just sort of, I think, did Johnny come? I want to say maybe Johnny came.

[33:10] Kevin Bianchi: And how does the conversation even get kicked off with that group? Where do you start?

[33:14] Cynthia Erivo: John is really good at start like giving good speeches. John is very good at like opening the floor. Gotcha. It's his like, it's like secret talent that he has. So he's like, so I want to welcome everyone. I know we're about to go on this big journey. And he has like a table laid out of like our costume, like because he'd been working with Paul. So Paul has like some examples of what the costumes might be like. And he has sweet, sweet man. He got little trays, like little yellow brick roads for us, like model yellow brick roads for each of us. So we have that and we signed, each one of us signed it. So we have this, I have mine put on the tray and like I've kept that. And so we have, he opens the floor up that way. And then at some point in the day, we have a dinner together. So we all sit, we break bread together. And then in the evening, Ari and I sing with Stephen Schwartz. And that's the first time we sing together.

[34:12] Kevin Bianchi: And you've worked with Stephen before?

[34:17] Cynthia Erivo: This is my first time working with Stephen.

[34:19] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, really? Okay.

[34:19] Cynthia Erivo: My first time working with Stephen, it's my first time singing with Ari.

[34:22] Kevin Bianchi: Gotcha. A moment.

[34:23] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. Wow. A big day.

[34:25] Kevin Bianchi: A big day. But it was wonderful. And I think that moment for Ari and I was really special because it was the first time we had heard our voices together and we quickly realized that it works.

[34:43] Quincy Brown: Yeah. And there is nothing more wonderful than realizing that your voice works with someone else's.

[34:50] Cynthia Erivo: It is really special, especially if this is the first time you've sung together.

[34:56] Kevin Bianchi: Right.

[34:57] Cynthia Erivo: We had not practiced. We had not sung this before. It just worked.

[35:02] Quincy Brown: Were there tears?

[35:03] Cynthia Erivo: Oh, yes.

[35:04] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[35:06] Cynthia Erivo: Yes, there were tears. Yes, there were tears. We were both speechless. We didn't know what to say. Because it's an emotional thing to be able to—an emotional and vulnerable thing to have to sing with someone when you've not sung with them before. You really do have to open yourself up to that person and allow yourself to hear them and allow yourself to be heard, to combine your voices the way that happened. And we did it immediately. And that was really special. I think that moved us both. It was sort of like an indication of what the rest of this was going to be like. If we could do that without having done this before, if we could do that with no practice, if we could do that in front of a room of people with nothing, no makeup, nothing, then we could really do this.

[35:52] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, you and Ariana have both talked about this pact you made at the beginning of the process to protect and take care of each other. Can you talk a little bit more about what that looks like day to day as you go through this journey?

[36:05] Cynthia Erivo: Day to day, it's sort of allowing, we're making decisions together, always making decisions together, always moving together. So it's never, I'm never over there and she's over here. We're always like in tandem. And if we, and we were always looking out for each other as well. So say, for instance, there was a, if there's a particular scene that needs a little quiet or I need a little bit of privacy or time and it doesn't feel like that, she would take on the task of going, hey, she needs quiet. Or if Ari is in a particular scene, because we both need different things to make the moment. We both need different things to get us where we need to be. Ari needs contact when there's emotion. So she needs to be close.

So I'd just be there with her for a second. And sometimes I need to be like all alone to find myself and she would give me the space. Or if we're working on something and both of us need a break and it feels like it's running away from us, both of us make the agreement, should we ask? I think we should take a break, but should we ask? Then we ask together, hey, whether this would really love a break, if that's possible, you know, sort of taking the responsibility to work in the atmosphere together. And also just like being comfortable, having conversations, because we built this relationship not just for Wicked, but for outside, for us as two human beings outside of this film, but as like two women together.

So that means opening yourself up to conversations that might have to come up, things that, you know, if I've had a bad day, then I want to have the conversation with her. And it's not necessarily the prettiest conversation, but she's open and open for me to have that conversation. If she hasn't had a great day and something's going on and she wants to discuss something and figure something out, my phone is on or if I need to come over, she has to come over, whatever it is. We're always there for each other, not just for the good moments, but for the moments that are a little more complicated, you know? That means that there's a level of honesty and intimacy that allows for us to actually to make something like this. The intimacy is necessary to make something as big as this at least feel connected, you know?

[39:04] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, and something that I think reads so clearly in your performance, your joint performance is like the love story of these two women. It is a story about these two women learning how to love each other and hearing the ways that you are taking care of each other off stage, or not off stage, not in front of the camera. It all clicks. It's like a daily recitative, you know what I mean? We speak to each other every day. If we don't speak to each other every day, we will have text each other, even if it's just like, hey, have a good day. We'll just, what's going on? I have to do a speech at something and I was running it and checking it and rewriting and I wasn't sure about it. So I was like, I'm sorry, I've read it to her already and then I had to go away and rewrite something else and I sent it to her.

I finished it and she remembered that I was writing the speech. So she said, hey, I think you're finishing the speech today. Send it to me if you want. Let me have a read if I want to hear how it's going. So I sent her the speech. She read it. She was like, that feels good. It feels really genuine. I was like, there's nothing that we need to change. No, that's really great. I love this. And picking specific moments. So it's like a true, honest understanding of what I'm doing. And music comes, while she was making her album, I was making my album. So I'm listening to her music. She's been listening to my music. I finally finished mine. I've sent her the music. She's listened to it. She's come back with, this is how we function, you know? So it's true understanding of who we are, what we need. And it's an ongoing back and forth in life in general.

[40:23] Quincy Brown: Cynthia, can we talk about the filming of the Asda scene? Just because Chris Murphy alluded to it in his cover story. And when we were talking to Ariana, there seems to be like some sort, something feels important about the filming of that scene. And I would love to hear your take on it.

[40:41] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. So when we started rehearsing it, I think they had had a dance choreographed already. And when we did it, I remember thinking, this doesn't feel like her movement. So I was like, can we just start from the beginning and find out how she moves? Just find out what she does. Because I knew that I didn't want it to be her discovering movement for the first time. I knew that I didn't want it to be her learning to dance. I knew that I wanted it to be someone who understands movement, but in a different way. She's learned to move differently. She's had different experiences. She's been raised in a different way. And so hasn't been to dance parties, but understands movement, but her own way. It's very individual to her.

So we created something that felt like Elphaba. And then I had questions about, well, why would she put the hat back on? There has to be a reason why she puts this hat back on. And then we sort of decided, well, what if she decides to imbue this thing that when she first saw it, she thought was beautiful. She thought was different and strange like her could see herself in the hat. So if we take this hat off because of the hurt, there's a choice to put it back on. So what if you fill it with power? What if it really does become an emblem of something that holds power? Maybe this is like the first time she casts something unknowingly. But she does that. And then that dance isn't just a spell to cast, but it's sort of an ownership of space, an ownership of her loneliness, an ownership of her hurt, an ownership of her difference and her separation.

And shooting it was just painful, but in the most beautiful way, because she has to be brave enough to do it in front of everybody. She has to be brave enough to say, OK, fine, I'll be on my own. I'll do it by myself. You know, so she takes up this space, which is a brave thing to do anyway, and places herself right in the centre of it. And there's a level of vulnerability, insecurity, hurt, pain, love that has to come to the surface when you do that.

[43:37] Kevin Bianchi: And what are you, as Cynthia, bringing to that moment?

[44:09] Cynthia Erivo: I just thought of all of the times where I felt like I was alone. And I thought of all the times where I felt like I didn't feel seen. And I thought of all the times where you don't feel accepted in a crowd and you feel that you stand out, but you don't want to stand out. I just knew that those are the things that would come to the surface for her. And there is a particular kind of pain that comes from feeling like you finally found someone who sees you a little bit, and when it becomes a betrayal, it's just hard. And I think that that final moment where she looks at Glinda is less of an accusation, but a, why would you do this to me?

[45:20] Quincy Brown: Wow.

[45:23] Cynthia Erivo: You know?

[45:24] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[45:25] Cynthia Erivo: I always feel like it was like a pleading of like, what did I do to deserve this? You know? And I think in that moment, they really see each other. It's when Glinda sees us and that's a human being. It gets her to snap out of it.

[45:48] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[45:50] Cynthia Erivo: And that moment where Glinda dances on her own and tries to do this dance, I always think is the most vulnerable moment of asking for forgiveness and wanting to connect. And the first time, Elphaba sort of, she says, follow me, and she goes to her hands and waits, that's a, okay, should we start again? And that's when they start to discover each other. And Ari always wanted to, whenever we do the dance together, she would try to forget it. She didn't want to over-rehearse it because she wanted to learn on the spot. So it was like teaching a person this piece with her language fresh every time.

[47:47] Quincy Brown: Thank you for sharing that. That's really beautiful. And it's kind of blown up how I view that moment in the movie now.

[47:55] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. And we weren't intending to take, it wasn't like the intention to be like, we will not have any laughs at all. I just knew what I wanted to say for her. And that's what I wanted to say for her.

[48:11] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. There's something interesting there too, with that take on the moment of Elphaba's ability to feel that betrayal, but then easily choose to forgive quickly.

[48:22] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah.

[48:23] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[48:24] Cynthia Erivo: I think she wants to be loved as well. And I also think that, I think Elphaba has this wonderful way of seeing past the veneer. She does it with Fiyero. She does it with Dr. Zillerman. She does, she sees, in some people it takes longer than the others, but she does it with the wizard. She does it with Madame Morrible. She sees past things, you know. She sees what she wants to see because she's a her being. So with Madame Morrible, she doesn't see soon enough because she feels really accepted. It's someone who wants her for her. And it's like, oh my gosh, someone's, they see me. They think this thing that I have hated my whole life is a talent. It's a talent. Right. She'd never heard it called a talent before.

She was sent away because it scared people, you know. It was the destruction of her for a long time. Now, all of a sudden, it's the one thing that makes her special. So she, I think she's a little bit blind in it. I think she doesn't see Madame Morrible for what she is until it's too late. Well, almost too late. But with everyone else, she kind of gets there. She sees the thin veil and goes past it.

[49:59] Kevin Bianchi: Something that comes up a lot with the actresses we speak to who do the role on stage is obviously how demanding this role is to do. You are the only actress who has done this role on film. So I would love to hear about the just logistics of playing Elphaba on screen.

[50:06] Kevin Bianchi: And what is the greenifying process?

[50:09] Cynthia Erivo: So greenifying process is we have airbrushing with paint. It's like an alcohol-based paint. You would have a primer first. They made green specific to me. So there were greens that had my tone in it. There's like a highlighter yellow almost in the green airbrushing paint. And there's like a warmer yellow in the primer. So that my skin tone would still come through to a point. But the green would match me. We tried a bunch of different greens before we landed. And then this green was made. Because the first green had pink in it and it was too chalky. So we needed something that was a bit warmer. So it would match my skin tone. And what we would do is put in the definition first. With a deep, deep, like a dark purple, almost black. My cheekbones and my freckles. I want to say my freckles would go on after. So we have primer, then the definition would go. So cheekbones and freckles would go on. Were freckles always a choice from the get-go?

[50:12] Cynthia Erivo: Logistics!

[50:12] Kevin Bianchi: Logistics!

[50:15] Cynthia Erivo: The logistics of doing Elphaba on screen.

[50:18] Kevin Bianchi: Starting with getting green, I guess.

[50:20] Cynthia Erivo: So my mornings, because we would often start early. My mornings would probably start at like 3am in the morning. I would work out because she is quite physical. And there's lots of flying and there's lots of harness work. So I needed to make sure that my body was ready to take on all of that. So I get ready in the morning. I get in, depending on when they needed me in the chair. Could be 6 o'clock, could be 5 o'clock. Depends. And I'd be in the chair for two hours and 45 minutes to sometimes four hours. When we had full body, it was four hours because we would sometimes have audio. So anytime between that amount of time.

[51:31] Cynthia Erivo: Freckles were a choice immediately. I was like, I think she should have freckles. I think because there's something about the freckles that makes her really endearing. And it sort of opens up the face. And I thought that was a really cool thing to try. And also it gave me... Because I thought about all of the things that we associate with witches. So it's like the wart on the nose or the wart on the chin. And what I loved was that I thought of those things as folklore. So what was originally a beauty spot became turned into a wart. Right. So you see all these freckles and then there's one that just is on its own. There's one that's on its own. So when we move further on, you'll see that more freckles appear, but they're in different places.

Interesting. As is what would happen when you grow older. And so we would, again, prime, put in our definition. And the freckles would go on. We made a vacuum form of my face and poked the holes in the freckles so that the freckles would stay in exactly the same place every single time. So that was what we would do. And then the airbrush would go over. Now my head would be airbrushed because when you put the wig on, my scalp also needs to be green. Right. So when my hair moves around, you see my scalp through the braids, but it's my scalp that is green, which I love because it meant that it felt like it's all connected. And the wig itself had tinted green lace. So it wouldn't show. It was like it disappeared on my head.

I didn't necessarily take out my piercings. Now they weren't earrings like this, but they were all flat studs. So we had prosthetics over my ears. So we do prosthetics to cover up the holes and the piercings. But the prosthetic is my color first. So they would actually spray that to be the matching green. It's process. It's really love. The wig itself was always styled and we knew that we, you'll see that there's like a little baby hair. There's like a little curly baby hair that's always in the front of my head. We were very specific about that one kiss curl, that tiny little baby curl that was always in it. Sometimes it's facing this way, sometimes it's facing that way, but it's always there.

But my wig stylist and wig maker worked together to make sure that the hair would change as we go along. So in the beginning, it's sort of inner side braid, tight together. And you'll notice as we go through, it gets looser and looser. So then it gets, you know, we have the rolls and that, when we get after the, after the Oz dust and she's been galindified, I asked for them to give me a hairstyle that was galinda adjacent, which is why you get that sort of like, right. And head down. And then when she's, when Fiyero walks by and says, you don't have to do that, you know, that role becomes this. So it's like a proper Victoria role. And then the rest is just like, so she touched, she starts to find herself stylistically as we move through the piece.

And the braids get a little longer and they get a little freer. They get a little wavier. So there's more movement in it. You're going to be stunning in the second movie. The way we're trending. It's a thing. It's a thing. And it does, it just, it does change the trajectory of it. It's moving towards something that feels freer and wilder. And it's a lot. And I love, I love what we, what we, how we grew it. None of the makeup on my face, except for the definition, is any other color than green. So eyeliner is green. The lash, the eyeshadow, green, lipstick, green, lip liner, green. It's all shades of green. But we found all the different shades of green so that we could find dimension in things.

And something I wanted, because I was like, what I want is it all to come from the shades that she, that it's her. So we used loads of different things. And we had like a green gel. So the palms of her hands were green, but they still look like palms. Right. So they're not the same as the back of her hand. They're very much like, you know, how your palms are lighter than the rest of you. The green is slightly lighter and slightly translucent. So my skin tone comes through, but it's still green. We keep it coming. I love to do it. I loved, I love being involved in all of this. So I would, I would do my lips and my, and my, I would get in my eyes and stuff. So they would leave like my lips. I would always do myself because I love to be involved in like the shading of it and making that happen.

I always do my eyeliner. Nails were a big part of this. I took the inspiration originally from the picture of Margaret Hamilton, which is to the side. Yes. I, when I went to, I, I've seen the picture many times and then I went back to the picture and I thought, what am I seeing? So I saw a couple of the film and I realized, well, she hasn't, she has nails. She has a set of nails and they're really long, very long. It was like, well, where does that come from? That can't just like come out of nowhere. So what do we do to make it feel like it's part of the DNA of her? And it's just different enough for us to think, well, this isn't just, isn't just like a full set of nails. It's just some, how her DNA does something to the way things grow.

So she has nails. And so we, we went through a set of different ideas of what the nails could look like. And then we settled on the idea that the, it's just an extension of the green. So the first time you see her nails, they're just, they're sort of Jade-esque. They're, um, like a, an ombre green that get lighter towards the tip. And when she goes to, um, the Emerald City, it changes because she gets there. We see them get their nails done. Right. And then they become darker on purpose because we're moving in that direction. And that is also something that progresses. To fall. Something to lock away for two. Yes. Um, and then John and I had a conversation about how far do we want to take the green?

How, how deeply into her DNA do we want it to be? And I was like, what if, what if we change my eye color so that it feels like there's just one more thing that removes her a little bit. And so we went on a search for the right eye color. There were these green lenses that were really pretty. There were a pair of hazel, uh, eye lenses that were cool. We had some lenses painted. Wow. One with like blue, like a blue iris, but like a hazel around it. And the one was with a green. We tried them all. And some of them felt too far away and you couldn't get, you can see through. Yeah. See through to me. And he was like, it kind of cuts the audience off. It cuts us off. And we want to see your emotion and the hazel didn't transform enough.

So we landed back on the green because for some reason that green both let us in and held us at a little bit of distance. So, you know, there's something different about her, but also you can come in. You almost forget you're green watching the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of wanted that. I kind of wanted, I kind of wanted it to feel like, oh, she's been in this skin her whole life. This is, she sees this every day. This is not novel to her. It's a no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is the de-greening process every day? Um, an hour and a half long.

[1:00:01] Kevin Bianchi: You're doing this every day?

[1:00:03] Cynthia Erivo: Every day. Most of the time I would be the last person on set because I was still taking everything off.

[1:00:09] Kevin Bianchi: Oh my God.

[1:00:11] Cynthia Erivo: I didn't go home with any of it. And if I went home with it, I couldn't take it off myself. So there's like a particular, um, uh, like oil or balm that takes all the green off. I just, and we would have full skincare, the whole lot. And then I would go back because you would inevitably be left with like a sheen of green. So I would, when I would get back home, I would then do another wash to get it all off.

[1:00:38] Kevin Bianchi: Did you have any skin issues through this process?

[1:00:40] Cynthia Erivo: No. My skin was the best it's ever been in my life.

[1:00:43] Kevin Bianchi: Wow.

[1:00:44] Cynthia Erivo: Insane.

[1:00:45] Kevin Bianchi: Now that we are green.

[1:00:48] Cynthia Erivo: Now that we're green, we then go into costume and the costume was layers of things. Right. So it's like, we've got, uh, sometimes if we, if we were under, if, if I had like, man, most of my sleeves were kind of like sheer and see-through so you could see my arms. And the problem with that is that if it's underneath and it's rubbing on things, then the makeup comes off. So we created like, uh, um, like a netted top that went under everything that sort of stopped here where my, where my makeup would stop if my arms are covered. And so it was the perfect match of green to the rest of me. So you have that. And then if we have tights on, we would have one pair of the green tights that match everything. So there's like a body type, the whole thing. Before my, my, which I love my, um, fishnets, the pattern fishnets that we, that came on. If we have those and then I'm corseted all the time.

[1:01:57] Kevin Bianchi: Uh, real corset?

[1:01:58] Cynthia Erivo: No, real corset.

[1:01:59] Kevin Bianchi: Okay.

[1:02:00] Cynthia Erivo: Pulled corset before the shirt and before the dress or whichever costume went on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was the vibes for the day. And then if we're flying that day, uh, so we had loads of different copies of things. We needed the, the, a copy of the costumes with pit points and pit points are basically, uh, costumes made with holes where the joints can come through so that when I put my harness on, they can also hook me to the wires.

[1:02:28] Kevin Bianchi: Right. Take us into Defying Gravity. You're shooting Defying Gravity today.

[1:02:31] Cynthia Erivo: I'm shooting Defying Gravity. Um, we have a direct, first of all, because we're moving through so much, my dresses had to be fit often. So we needed a fit me, but we also needed space for my harness. There are, I think two or three different harnesses for different, uh, stunts. Uh, the standard flying up and down easy is the, is the most sort of like easygoing harness.

[1:03:02] Kevin Bianchi: And were you doing all your stunt work?

[1:03:04] Cynthia Erivo: Yes. Okay. And these, these harnesses I have, I still have my corset on. I still have my costume on all of that. And then you put the harness on top of that. Right. And those need to be pretty snug because you're, it's, you're flying. There's nothing, you know, flying, which I found deeply thrilling. Um, but those days were really interesting because once you're in the harness, you don't want to come out of the harness because it takes forever to get everything prepped again and wires and whatnot. So those days can be really, they can be really big. They can be really, um, exhausting because your body's being put through the strangest things. And you're holding your bladder while you're flying around.

I don't go to the bathroom. Once I'm in my costume, once I'm in my costume, um, and this is probably a terrible idea, but once I'm in that costume and the harness is on, I'm not doing it. I'm just not playing. I'm not, I'm not dealing with it. I'm not dealing with it. There's too many layers. I'm not dealing with it. It is what it is. Okay. If it's, are we in the costume at 7am in the morning, 8am in the morning? Great. We'll be in it for the next 14, 12 hours. Good luck. Oh my God. Yeah. I'll see you there. I'm not doing it. I'm not, I'm not doing it. So that's what, that's what I would do. I would like figure it out and that's what we're, that's, I'm not doing it. And everyone would be like, do you need the bathroom?

No, I don't need the bathroom. Let's go again. I don't. Let's go. Yeah. Let's go. We're in it. Let's go. Let's go. And that's what would happen. And we, we would do these like I loved flying, but it was, you would, the only time you would change the harness is when you would need to change it into a different, um, where you're doing a different stunt. And those days can just be really exhausting. Your body goes through a lot because what happens when you're flying is that if you have to do something, like there's a, there's a moment where I do that, like loop around. That is not the wires doing the loop. The wires are taking me from A to B. I have to get my body over. So you're figuring out where to place the weight.

And sometimes it goes horribly wrong. And at the legs slot behind you, and you're just like, I don't know how to do this. And you realize, oh, I have to put tension in my hips and my legs as I bring it round behind me in order to fly in straight. So you just have to learn like the aerodynamics of like where things go.

[1:05:40] Quincy Brown: I'm like, who else could have played this part? This could only be you.

[1:05:42] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. Well, he decided that he wanted to find gravity to feel like a combination of all of the like iconic, um, uh, superhero moves that you've seen. So there's that one where I whip round across the, the, the screen and that's like Spider-Man. And then there's a spitter spin up, which is like Wonder Woman. And then there's the loop, which is like Superman, like all of those things he'd sort of like put together. And that was like the, that was the nature of the beast, like figuring out how to do it. Like all together and figuring out what the dynamics would be. And that was like a long shooting process because we started that piece. We started Defying Gravity. Maybe I want to say we did it in May, April, and didn't finish until January this year because of the writers and actors strike.

[1:06:36] Kevin Bianchi: Right. Well, it is such a long sequence in the movie.

[1:06:40] Cynthia Erivo: It's very much built out, which actually how did that unlimited section? What was the thought process behind adding that into the song?

[1:06:48] Cynthia Erivo: What was his thought process or my thought process into the song? Either. I think he, he wanted a moment for Elphaba. He, he didn't want people to believe that Elphaba was going to do it immediately. He wanted people to root for her. Like, and I guess he wanted us to see, and I love the idea of her having to figure it out. Like this woman doesn't know how to fly yet. She doesn't realize that she can, she has to take the leap. And when she takes the leap, she has no idea if it's going to end terribly or if she's going to indeed fly. So when, and he wants to give, he wanted to give her a reason for finding her flight. And that reason is like meeting her younger self and going and reaching out to her and going, I've got you.

[1:07:39] Quincy Brown: Each of the screenings I went to people gasped during that younger child moment.

[1:07:42] Cynthia Erivo: It just, yeah, it takes the breath out of you. That little girl, she's so sweet, so lovely. And I, I loved, I loved seeing her little face and just like the wonder in, in it. I remember when I first met her, I met her when I was in the makeup and she was so sort of, oh my gosh, you know, just enamored. And whenever we could have some time together, if I, if our paths crossed, which was not a lot, but we got a little time to be in the same space together. I remember we were shooting a scene where I, and she hadn't seen me fly yet. So, so I asked if she wanted to see me fly. And she was like, yeah, I want to see you fly. So they bring her in by the monitor and it's just like a descent in. So this is one of those, I liked the flight, the taking off and the descending. Cause it was like really nice. We found out like what the language was and like, how does she land? And you'll see more of that. That's coming.

[1:08:38] Kevin Bianchi: Did you get hurt at all through any of this?

[1:08:41] Cynthia Erivo: Only chafing and chafing sounds funny until you actually have it. I mean, like my skin on my hips was burnt. Oh, and it was like, it took so long to heal. It just took forever. You get bruised. You get like, I think, well, maybe I did get hurt and I just can't remember. Like, I'm sure like I definitely had a bleeding, like a bloody nose at one point. Like, I don't know what happened. Can't tell you. Like broken nails. Cause even like landing on your knees and whatnot. I was fine with the landings and the fall. Like I was totally fine. Flying was like, that felt wonderful. You figure it out. And the only thing was like what the harness does to you after a long period of time. Cause you are in it for hours and hours and you are up.

Right. It's pulling on your skin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's pulling outwards. So you're, the tension is in a weird space and you've got to figure out how to hold yourself. But otherwise it's lovely. I really enjoyed what it felt like to fly. And Keris, Keris came in one day and they took her by the monitor because she wanted to see me fly. And I, as I'm flying in, I hear this little voice go, whoa. Oh. And I, I kid you not, you know, when you have those moments of, oh, that's why I'm doing it. That was one of those moments of like, that's why I'm doing it. Because that little girl believes I'm flying. She, and she has seen me be taken up in these wires and it doesn't matter. She believes I am flying. And on top of which she knows that she's playing the little version of this, which is awesome.

[1:10:35] Kevin Bianchi: Okay. So hearing all that goes into playing Elphaba on film. What would you say was the most challenging aspect of it for you personally?

[1:10:45] Cynthia Erivo: I mean, it was all, it's all very challenging because it's, because nothing, what I, I used to say to Ari, none of this, nothing is a small day. Everything is a big day. None of what you just said sounds easy. No day was like a small, okay. We'll just, no day was that. Every day was like something. If it, is it, I'm not that girl. Okay. That's a big day because it's like me on my own and we're in forest. It's like all of these elements coming together and you know, is it the wizard and I, that's not a small day. It's like, and just because of the way he saw what this was to be, you'll notice that she starts at the bottom of the school and ends at the very top of a mountain. So he, he makes her ascend literally.

And then sprint. But she never flat. And then, and then exactly. And then she's like on it and, and, but she doesn't go over. She doesn't take the leap. Right up to the precipice of it. That's not a small day. None of it. I think that the, I think it was sort of, I think maybe the hardest thing for me was to, to not look at everything as one big task, but to try to compartmentalize the moments that we were having to make, because they're all, they all mean something. They're all big moments and they all require a lot of us emotionally. I mean, The Answer to Us was really hard emotionally, but then sitting down and talking about how her father hates her and then looking in the mirror and being told that she's beautiful.

Like that was an emotional moment and having to like, how do we, how do we vacillate so we don't tip so far into it that we can't come back? You know, because once we're, when we're in, we're like, where do we, how do we manage and measure how much she lets herself go and when, you know, because she's sort of like reverberating with like hurt and pain. It's like, it's there. So she doesn't necessarily live in it because it's sort of like literally in her skin. Like it's on her. It's always like at the surface. So it's about how much do we give and how much do we hold? And it was, I think that was one of the things that I had to like figure out. I like her rhythm. She's not, she's not, she doesn't have the same rhythm as me. She doesn't sound like me, you know? So it's like managing what that is. She's a little drier, takes her time a little bit more, you know?

[1:13:41] Kevin Bianchi: We've been talking about what we love so much about your take on the role is she's not angry at the world. Like she accepts that this is how she's viewed and she's like made peace with that. She's not holding it against anyone. That's just, it is what it is.

[1:13:55] Cynthia Erivo: Yeah. I think that's like a really special twist. But I think that came naturally because I, I, I believed that she's, for someone who's been in this, she's been in this skin forever. It is not a surprise to her when someone is like, oh, that's a surprise. Does it hurt? Yes. Is it surprising? No, it's something she's, it's, this is an everyday for her. So you can't be mad at the world if the world just is what it is. You know, it's something she's experienced her whole life. And I think that she's also experienced, you know, aspects like love, whether it be from Dulcebert or her sister, and she does love her sister. And she does love Dulcebert. And I think to a degree, she loves her father and wants love back. But, but if I just thought if she's mad at the world the entire time, how does she, how would she function? How do you, how do you function past that? And, and also there has to be, you need room. We