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[0:00] Tori Bullard: We would like to acknowledge the Thurrawal people of the Eora Nation, and the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. We pay respect to the traditional custodians of this land on which we work, live, and record, and strive to continue in the tradition of Australia's first storytellers. We acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land. You're listening to Stage Door Podcast, the podcast celebrating theatre and creativity, from onstage mishaps to career-defining moments. Hosted by Thespians, myself, Tori, and co-host Eliza.

[0:41] Eliza Gunther: Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives, and more.

[0:47] Tori Bullard: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Stage Door Podcast. Today we are joined by Ryan Gonzales, currently walking the streets of Washington Heights at the Sydney Opera House as Usnavi in In The Heights, and is about to jump ship over to the Australian premiere of Peter and the Starcatcher. Please welcome to the mic, Ryan.

[1:03] Ryan Gonzales: Hello!

[1:04] Tori Bullard: Hello, good morning, thank you. Oh, we just, we just had this conversation, it's not even morning anymore. It's fine, good morning. How are you going?

[1:12] Ryan Gonzales: I'm very, very good. I'm just having a little morning to myself before doing the show tonight.

[1:17] Eliza Gunther: Oh, amazing.

[1:19] Ryan Gonzales: True, it is a Wednesday.

[1:20] Tori Bullard: It's so great to be able to, like, do the thing, but when you can just be like, oh, I'm just gonna sit here and just, like, live in the world for a second, and then I get to go and live in another world tonight.

[1:32] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah, until you get to a double Saturday, double Sunday, and you've done a 7.30 Friday night show and you're just like, you wake up, you feel like the dawn of the dead or something. You're like, I have to do this again.

[1:41] Eliza Gunther: That's when you're like, okay, yeah, I'm really working hard for this show on the weekend.

[1:54] Ryan Gonzales: Working hard for the money.

[1:57] Tori Bullard: Absolutely. So I guess, how did you navigate entering the industry, in particular, booking your first show?

[2:05] Ryan Gonzales: Well, I started, like, I started dazzling when I was like three, four, because I think my parents put me in a lot of stuff, like sports before that, like soccer and stuff. And I would just cry. And then they put me into dancing, and I didn't cry. And they were like, great, we'll leave you there.

[2:23] Eliza Gunther: Fabulous.

[2:25] Ryan Gonzales: That's so young, too.

[2:27] I know, because my brothers were coming, like, three or four. So my mum was pregnant with twins, my brothers. And so when they were getting around to that pregnancy, she was kind of like, and my dad was kind of like, how are we going to keep Ryan? Who's super hyperactive, under wraps? Like, how are you going to get rid of some of that energy? So that was good. So I guess I have, like, a very broad knowledge of dance from a very young age. And then I went to Brent Street High School from, like, year 11 and 12. So I started to just become immersed with, like, all of the choreographers, especially, like, Matt Lee, people that were working in theatre. Even though, like, I was probably around 15 when I first discovered what musical theatre actually was.

Because, like, I watched a lot of films, a lot of theatre films, like the Golden Oldies. I loved Cats, apparently. But then I went and saw Singing in the Rain at the Lyric with Rachel Beck and Todd McKenney and Wayne Scott Kermond. And I was kind of like, oh, I was so flabbergasted that they were doing it all at the same time and that it was happening right in front of my eyes. And the rain was pretty magic. And I think from that point onwards, I was kind of like 14, 15 and decided, oh, I need to look into that. Because dancing is amazing. But that made me feel some other type of way. So then I was in, you know, high school. I did full time. I was very lucky at a young age. To be a very skilled dancer. And, like, I did some work as a commercial dancer when I was, like, in year 11 and 12 first. And then I did Happy Feet 2 in my year 12, while I was doing my HSC, which is wild.

[4:22] Eliza Gunther: Okay. Happy Feet. That's awesome!

[4:26] Ryan Gonzales: Happy Feet 2, the second one. It was, like, a year and a half. Just flabbergasted. Just penguining it. It's so cool. Motion captioning it, getting there at 6am every morning, wild. Like, just a crazy job to kind of enter the industry in.

[4:41] Eliza Gunther: Yep.

[4:42] Ryan Gonzales: How did I not know this? That's crazy.

[4:44] Eliza Gunther: This is crazy.

[4:46] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah.

[4:47] Eliza Gunther: I need to go back and watch Happy Feet 2 now.

[4:49] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah. If we watch it together, I can be like, that one's me. And then that one's me.

[4:56] Ryan Gonzales: But that's it. No, but that was kind of, like, my entry in as a dancer. And then I think from there, like, I got to work with people like Kate Wormald and Penny Martin and Leigh-Anne Churney. Like, they were all working with me on that job. And also, like, the Squared division, Ant was on that job as a dancer. And Wade Robson was the choreographer. So I kind of got my foot in the door as a 17-year-old pretty damn quickly to, like, meet all those people. And then I had auditioned for so many musicals, like, maybe 10 or 11. I just had slogged it at the age of 17, 18. And when I was in full-time, the auditions for Legally Blonde came around. And I was obsessed with that as a kid. I used to watch the MTV YouTube, like, filmed version constantly when I was in Year 9.

Just all the time. And so I knew the show before I even walked in the room. And then when I walked in, they were just kind of like, oh, this kid knows the gig already and can skip. Uh, swing? And I was like, yeah, swing. Let's go. So that was my first.

[6:14] Eliza Gunther: You were just preparing the skipping for years and years and years.

[6:17] Ryan Gonzales: Legit, though. That's not even a joke. I knew it inside out. I'm such a little nerd.

[6:28] Eliza Gunther: Oh, that's fantastic. And you swung on that show, which is such a phenomenal first. I mean, it's a big task for your first show. Like, was that intimidating at the time?

[6:40] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah, because I think like swinging is always hard, but swinging roles that constantly talk and sing, like every role in Legally Blonde has lines. Some of them have their own songs, like Aaron Schultz, like Nikos and Carlos, like they all were so detailed. And I also vocally swung as well. So I had to like sing everyone's parts whenever they were off. So I'd learn the entire score. And I was like, I was 18, 18, 19, and just like kicking it with like Helen Daly-Moore and David Harris just being like, I don't know what to do, but I'm just going to throw myself in. But it was the best training because I ended up not going to like WAPA or VCA or anything like that because I got in to a show. And it ended up being like the best kind of training as a swing because it meant I understood the mechanism of the show, like the machine.

I understood what swinging and understudying meant straight off the bat. I understood how hard that was. And it kind of meant I just learned a lot of respect for the entire process and the entire team, including like stage management and the crew. So it really is, I think it's the best way to get into music theatre because you just immediately know what is expected of everyone.

[8:06] Eliza Gunther: Definitely. Because there is, I think there is no amount of, we've talked to a number of people that have been standbys, have been swings. There is no amount of training or preparation that can really prepare you for actually taking on that role. And it's not even something when you go to a university that they actually teach you. Nobody teaches you actually about swinging or being an understudy. That's kind of just, you learn it as you do it. So being able to step straight into that and learn that just like straight off the bat is incredibly impressive. But also it does, it makes you kind of go, okay, cool, this, this is, this is what this is.

[8:43] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah. It also creates an awareness for when you move forward, like when you're performing in a group or in an ensemble, when a swing is on, when a cover is on, if you have the experience of doing it, of jumping in, then I've kind of find that you as the ensemble or as the principal in your role that you do every day, eight times a week, you know, inside out, you can kind of like be helpful, be supportive whilst also doing your job and like be able to like kind of steer them or shove them with love or like just be like, just go to number two or like whatever you need to do to help them get through. It's just such a brilliant skill to have straight off the bat. And that's being like a good member of the company as well to like support each other. It's not an individual thing. It's a teamwork thing. It doesn't matter what role you are.

[9:34] Eliza Gunther: Yeah. I mean, the individual thing is wild because even when I did, I had like a one human cabaret show and that took like six people to make. So like none of it, even though it was just me and a pianist on stage, it's like actually all of us needed to be there in order for it to make sense and for it to work. And I still even wasn't alone because old mate Conrad was on the stage with me. So it's always going to be.

[10:04] Ryan Gonzales: That's the best. Truly.

[10:07] Eliza Gunther: And I mean, kind of fast forwarding it to now, you are currently reprising your role in In The Heights. What is it about the character that draws you back to the show?

[10:15] Ryan Gonzales: This is such a good question because I actually was thinking like, if I ever met Lin-Manuel, I would want to ask him, like, did he write this for himself or was he like writing the show? And did he decide like, oh, I have to play this character? Was the character even there to start with? Who knows? Because he does start as the narrator, essentially. And he narrates a lot. But my favorite thing about the character is he becomes such an integral, heavy part of like the emotional story and the emotional journey. And it kind of catches the audience off guard, especially in act two. Because Usnavi is like telling you about everybody else's world. And then in act two, you suddenly realize that his world has completely imploded and it's crumbling.

And his dreams are going further and further away from him. And that is really exciting to play with as an actor because you have to be so like, front footed almost at the top of the show. You're teaching the audience how to learn about the information. And then you have to switch and become like the dramatic actor of the piece. It's wild. It's such a clever mechanism for a role. And I think it also like, it's probably the role that I've played across the board that most suits me and feels like the easiest to put on because it's super close to me as a person. But it also just is like, there's just something magic about the role.

[12:09] Eliza Gunther: Did you jump on it when they kind of like asked you to come back? Were you like, yes, a hundred percent?

[12:15] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah, I cried. I was doing Zombie at The Haze and I got the email mid-show and I was putting my zombie makeup on and I was like, stop being, stop being. You're like, yes. And there is no contract. Who needs one? Just let me, just let me do it.

[12:38] Eliza Gunther: I love that. And I love that like, you know, having a role that you connect to so much and also it almost feels like a comfort to come back to. Because I feel like as performers so often, you know, it's what we do. We take on roles that are sometimes very similar to us, sometimes are the polar opposites. And it's so nice to be able to come back to a role that just, I guess, also really grounds you as well in yourself and who you are and just resonates with you. And it's just like a hug to be like, great, this is like, I love this show. I love this role. And it's just like comforting and calming to come back to.

[13:14] Ryan Gonzales: I mean, it's all of those things, but it's also hard. Like it's one of the hardest roles ever to do, which is also what I love. My brain loves hard challenges.

[13:27] Eliza Gunther: It's the mental challenge of it all.

[13:29] Ryan Gonzales: And that's like really rewarding. It is because it's teaching me, like it's the same as the swing thing. It teaches me that none of my performances are going to be perfect. But they just have to be authentic and then the audience will love it. It's not actually about doing the perfect Usnavi. Last night I was having testy pops in the middle of my final rap. And I was like, I think I'm going to win a world record for this. I was like, yeah, I'm a street light chilling in the heat. And I just had to sit with myself in the dressing room afterwards being like, it doesn't need to be perfect. You're tired.

[14:15] Eliza Gunther: Oh, that's amazing.

[14:16] Ryan Gonzales: That's the thing. It's life. We are so, and we are constantly so hard on ourselves.

[14:24] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[14:24] Ryan Gonzales: When things, you know, in an audition room, preparing for an audition, but when you actually get out there and do the thing, it is never going to be in what your brain marks at.

[14:35] Tori Bullard: Welcome back to Stage Door Podcast! Today, we have the incredible Ryan Gonzales with us, who is stepping back into the role of Usnavi in Washington Heights.

[15:05] Eliza Gunther: Yes! Ryan, we are so excited to have you here. How does it feel to return to such a beloved role?

[15:35] Ryan Gonzales: Thank you for having me! It feels amazing to step back into Usnavi. It's a role that challenges me but also brings me so much fulfillment.

[16:05] Tori Bullard: That’s fantastic! What do you think makes Usnavi such a special character for you?

[16:25] Ryan Gonzales: Usnavi is so relatable. He’s a dreamer, and I think everyone can connect with that desire to achieve something greater.

[16:40] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely! And you’ve also had an iconic run in Moulin Rouge. Can you tell us about that experience?

[17:00] Ryan Gonzales: Moulin Rouge was a whirlwind! The energy in that show is electric, and performing in Vogue was definitely a highlight.

[17:20] Tori Bullard: I can only imagine! What was it like to perform such an iconic number?

[17:40] Ryan Gonzales: It was exhilarating! The choreography and the music just come together to create this unforgettable moment on stage.

[18:00] Eliza Gunther: And speaking of unforgettable moments, we’ve seen some casting shifts happening in Australia lately. What are your thoughts on that?

[18:20] Ryan Gonzales: It’s an interesting time for casting in Australia. I think it’s great to see more diversity and representation on stage, but it also comes with its challenges.

[18:40] Tori Bullard: Definitely! And we’re all looking forward to your upcoming trip to Neverland with the Australian premiere of Peter and the Starcatcher. What can you share about that?

[19:00] Ryan Gonzales: I’m so excited! It’s a magical story, and I can’t wait for audiences to experience it. The cast is incredible, and we’re all working hard to bring it to life.

[19:20] Eliza Gunther: That sounds amazing! Do you have a favorite moment from the show that you’re particularly looking forward to?

[19:40] Ryan Gonzales: There’s a scene where we really dive into the imagination of the characters, and it’s just so fun to perform.

[20:00] Tori Bullard: I love that! It sounds like a show that will really capture the hearts of the audience.

[20:20] Eliza Gunther: For sure! And for our listeners, make sure to follow Ryan on Instagram @rgonzy and get your tickets to Peter and the Starcatcher at peterandthestarcatcher.com.au.

[20:40] Ryan Gonzales: Thank you! I can’t wait to see everyone there.

[21:00] Tori Bullard: We’re so grateful for you joining us today, Ryan.

[21:20] Eliza Gunther: Yes, thank you so much!

[21:40] Ryan Gonzales: Thank you for having me!

[22:00] Tori Bullard: And to our listeners, don’t forget to follow us on Instagram @stagedoorpod and leave us a rating and review.

[22:20] Eliza Gunther: We love hearing your feedback and ideas for future episodes!

[22:40] Tori Bullard: Until next time, keep dreaming big and breaking a leg!

[23:00] Eliza Gunther: Bye everyone!

[23:20] Ryan Gonzales: Bye!

[23:40] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[24:00] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[24:20] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[24:40] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[25:00] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[25:20] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[25:40] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[25:50] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[26:10] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[26:30] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[26:50] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[27:10] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[27:30] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[27:50] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[28:10] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[28:30] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[28:50] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[29:10] Ryan Gonzales: I watched the speed skating, and I watched the singles and the pairs, and I know exactly what you're talking about. And she did, she worked so much smarter. She just like, and then she was like, yeah, guys, hey, I'm just here. She kind of gassed at them, because they were all like, oh, yeah, we're at the front, we're at the front. They forgot about it. And then she just won.

[29:30] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[29:31] Ryan Gonzales: Like, iconic. They've also got another lap and she's like slowing down around the curve. I'm like, smart.

[29:38] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[29:39] Ryan Gonzales: Go girl, get it. I'll just sit here.

[29:41] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[29:42] Ryan Gonzales: All right. The next one is swipe left or right on reality TV.

[29:52] Tori Bullard: Can I have a middle option?

[29:54] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah. Okay, yeah.

[29:59] Tori Bullard: It's like a bumble.

[30:00] Ryan Gonzales: Like, save it and come back to it later.

[30:03] Tori Bullard: It's like bumble. The reality show has to message me first, and tell me what it's about.

[30:12] Ryan Gonzales: And then I will respond as to whether I want to or not. Because some of them are stupid, but some of them are great.

[30:21] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[30:22] Ryan Gonzales: Like Below Deck is great. Survivor is great.

[30:26] Tori Bullard: Yes. Yes. Yes.

[30:28] Ryan Gonzales: The Block is great.

[30:29] Tori Bullard: I love The Block.

[30:30] Tori Bullard: I love The Block so much.

[30:31] Ryan Gonzales: But then like,

[30:34] Ryan Gonzales: What's The Bachelor about? I don't know. I don't like.

[30:38] Tori Bullard: Just hot people hooking up.

[30:41] Ryan Gonzales: I don't know what that's like.

[30:42] Tori Bullard: A lot of reality is hot people hooking up.

[30:45] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah. Neither. I don't get that.

[30:47] Tori Bullard: I don't relate to that, you know?

[30:49] Ryan Gonzales: I don't relate. I don't know what that means. What day is it?

[30:53] Tori Bullard: I don't stand around in a bikini all day.

[30:57] Ryan Gonzales: What shows have you been in?

[31:00] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[31:03] Ryan Gonzales: Now that would be iconic. A musical theatre dating show. Come on.

[31:08] Tori Bullard: That is a recipe for disaster. Let's stamp that.

[31:12] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah.

[31:15] Tori Bullard: Hey, we've had musical theatre reality shows. We have had The Search for Elwood.

[31:20] Ryan Gonzales: And we've also had Illegally Brown, The Search for the Next Paraguagai.

[31:26] Tori Bullard: Have you seen this?

[31:29] Ryan Gonzales: Have you seen this?

[31:32] Tori Bullard: So, okay.

[31:34] Ryan Gonzales: Please open your ears. I'm about to do another TED Talk.

[31:38] Tori Bullard: Okay. I love this.

[31:41] Ryan Gonzales: When Legally Blonde, The Search for the Next Elwood, they did that series, right?

[31:47] Tori Bullard: Yes.

[31:48] Ryan Gonzales: And In the Heights was also kind of playing maybe a little bit after that on Broadway.

[31:51] Tori Bullard: Yes.

[31:51] Ryan Gonzales: And they did like a spoof version, like a funny comedy series of them looking for the next Paraguagai.

[31:58] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[31:59] Ryan Gonzales: When they get all these people that are obviously not Paraguagai to come in and audition.

[32:05] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:06] Ryan Gonzales: And they got like Allison Janney.

[32:09] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:10] Ryan Gonzales: And they got like a couple of people from the Legally Blonde cast.

[32:13] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:14] Ryan Gonzales: And they just all auditioned to be Paraguagai.

[32:17] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:20] Ryan Gonzales: And it's the best thing you'll ever watch. It's called Legally Brown, The Search for the Next Paraguagai.

[32:24] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:27] Ryan Gonzales: It's on YouTube.

[32:30] Tori Bullard: Oh my god. Thank you for imparting this on us.

[32:33] Ryan Gonzales: That's iconic.

[32:36] Tori Bullard: What?

[32:37] Ryan Gonzales: It's so great.

[32:38] Tori Bullard: I thought there was just Legally Blonde, but no.

[32:41] Ryan Gonzales: No.

[32:42] Tori Bullard: And this is my one story about the series.

[32:44] Ryan Gonzales: They have this one white guy coming in.

[32:47] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:48] Ryan Gonzales: And they're like, whenever you're ready.

[32:49] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:50] Ryan Gonzales: And he's like, I'm really struggling with the Spanish.

[32:52] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:53] Ryan Gonzales: And they go, we'll sing it in English.

[32:57] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[32:58] Ryan Gonzales: So he sings it in English.

[32:59] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[33:01] Ryan Gonzales: And it's so brilliant. It's such a great comment on cultural casting in theatre.

[33:06] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[33:07] Ryan Gonzales: It's so good.

[33:08] Tori Bullard: I'm going to have to watch that now.

[33:12] Ryan Gonzales: That's great.

[33:13] Tori Bullard: I'm sorry. I'm derailing this game so hard.

[33:17] Ryan Gonzales: Please continue.

[33:18] Tori Bullard: I'm loving it.

[33:19] Ryan Gonzales: I love it.

[33:20] Tori Bullard: I'm loving it.

[33:21] Ryan Gonzales: Okay. Camping.

[33:23] Tori Bullard: Swipe left or right.

[33:24] Ryan Gonzales: Oh.

[33:27] Tori Bullard: Wait.

[33:28] Ryan Gonzales: I feel like everything's going to be a maybe.

[33:33] Tori Bullard: Because like.

[33:34] Ryan Gonzales: In the right circumstances.

[33:36] Tori Bullard: Is it glamping or is it camping?

[33:38] Ryan Gonzales: Can I bring a van?

[33:40] Tori Bullard: Because then it's a swipe right.

[33:42] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah.

[33:43] Tori Bullard: If I'm on the ground, it's a swipe left.

[33:46] Ryan Gonzales: If I'm cold, wet, and on the ground, it's a no.

[33:50] Tori Bullard: So if I'm camping, it's probably a no.

[33:52] Ryan Gonzales: So actually, swipe left.

[33:59] Tori Bullard: Honestly, so fair.

[34:02] Ryan Gonzales: So, so fair.

[34:04] Tori Bullard: Okay. Karaoke.

[34:06] Ryan Gonzales: Left or right.

[34:07] Tori Bullard: Oh.

[34:09] Ryan Gonzales: These are hard.

[34:11] Tori Bullard: Swipe left.

[34:12] Ryan Gonzales: I'm so sorry.

[34:13] Tori Bullard: Oh, it's a no.

[34:14] Ryan Gonzales: It's a no.

[34:15] Tori Bullard: Fair enough.

[34:16] Ryan Gonzales: No, no. It's.

[34:18] Tori Bullard: We understand.

[34:19] Ryan Gonzales: We will be concluding our interview, however.

[34:21] Tori Bullard: Thank you so much for being here.

[34:23] Ryan Gonzales: You can see in the hides.

[34:29] Tori Bullard: Thank you so much for having me.

[34:32] Ryan Gonzales: I'm going home.

[34:33] Tori Bullard: Okay.

[34:35] Ryan Gonzales: All right. Movie musical adaptations.

[34:38] Tori Bullard: I swipe right.

[34:40] Ryan Gonzales: Yes for everything.

[34:42] Tori Bullard: Hard yes.

[34:43] Ryan Gonzales: Hard yes.

[34:44] Tori Bullard: Amazing.

[34:45] Ryan Gonzales: Specifically.

[34:46] Tori Bullard: Hard yes.

[34:47] Ryan Gonzales: Hard yes.

[34:49] Tori Bullard: Yes, because I'd like to be in one one day.

[34:52] Ryan Gonzales: Someone put me in one.

[34:54] Tori Bullard: I'm so excited for when The Deb comes out next year.

[34:58] Ryan Gonzales: I know.

[34:59] Tori Bullard: Whenever The Deb is coming out.

[35:01] Ryan Gonzales: Musical theatre, Australia, movie, what?

[35:05] Tori Bullard: I'm so excited for it.

[35:06] Ryan Gonzales: Incredible.

[35:07] Tori Bullard: Well, thank you so much for playing our little swipe left or swipe right.

[35:13] Ryan Gonzales: We're going to jump back into the questions.

[35:16] Tori Bullard: So after in the heights, you were going on to perform in Peter and the Starcatcher.

[35:21] Ryan Gonzales: And for those who are unfamiliar, this is my all time favourite show ever to exist.

[35:27] Tori Bullard: Is it?

[35:28] Ryan Gonzales: I saw it in off Broadway in 2015, maybe not 2015. It was like 2013.

[35:36] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[35:38] Ryan Gonzales: So I love it. This show has a very near and dear place to my heart.

[35:42] Tori Bullard: I saw all of the original cast.

[35:44] Ryan Gonzales: I got to see Christian Ball.

[35:47] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[35:51] Ryan Gonzales: And that was a dream in and of itself.

[35:56] Tori Bullard: What are you most looking forward to about being in this production?

[35:56] Ryan Gonzales: Playing the fighting prawn.

[36:00] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[36:03] Ryan Gonzales: I'm so excited. It is my iconic role.

[36:09] Tori Bullard: Yes.

[36:10] Ryan Gonzales: Okay. The context is.

[36:13] Tori Bullard: Have you read the book, Tori?

[36:16] Ryan Gonzales: Yes, I have.

[36:19] Tori Bullard: Okay.

[36:20] Ryan Gonzales: The book is dark. The book is like the play is giving like grotesque.

[36:31] Tori Bullard: Grotesque like story time with a bit of panto, but also like a lot of like British darkness.

[36:38] Ryan Gonzales: Like it's very cold. But it's like juxtaposed with brilliant comedy.

[36:46] Tori Bullard: So and it also has the fantasy like Disney aspects of it being Peter Pan.

[36:52] Ryan Gonzales: It's such a clever script.

[36:56] Tori Bullard: I've never seen it.

[36:58] Ryan Gonzales: I've just read it and I kind of read it. They asked me to audition for this role and I read the play and was kind of like, whoa.

[37:06] Tori Bullard: It's such a brilliant script.

[37:08] Ryan Gonzales: And of course it is because it's it's it's the guy who wrote Jersey Boys.

[37:13] Tori Bullard: Yes.

[37:13] Ryan Gonzales: So there is no fat in the script. It is so lean.

[37:17] Tori Bullard: Yes.

[37:19] Ryan Gonzales: It is just juice. It's such a brilliant script.

[37:25] Tori Bullard: But I'm also I love the idea of this character because he evil.

[37:32] Ryan Gonzales: I haven't really been evil before.

[37:34] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[37:38] Ryan Gonzales: And I get to. So I'm really excited for that.

[37:40] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[37:43] Ryan Gonzales: Like when I saw the cast. Also, when I heard that this was coming, this is like my dream show to be in.

[37:49] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[37:51] Ryan Gonzales: I was like, I don't have an I didn't have an agent at the time. I was like, who do I who do I who do I contact?

[37:55] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[37:57] Ryan Gonzales: Who do I contact to get into this room? I was like, I never thought this show would ever come to Australia.

[38:00] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:03] Ryan Gonzales: And I am just so incredibly excited.

[38:07] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:08] Ryan Gonzales: And when I saw you were cast in it, I was like, OK, cool, cool, cool, cool. But fine.

[38:10] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:11] Ryan Gonzales: Everything's everything. This is going to be great. It's all good.

[38:12] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:14] Ryan Gonzales: It's all going to be great.

[38:14] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:15] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:15] Ryan Gonzales: But then you see like Paul Capsis, Alison White, Colin Lane, Peter Hellyer.

[38:16] Ryan Gonzales: OK, it's going to work out.

[38:22] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:26] Ryan Gonzales: Like, I didn't know the cast before we were announced.

[38:27] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:30] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:30] Ryan Gonzales: They were very, like, quiet about it.

[38:30] Ryan Gonzales: So I didn't know what I was signing into.

[38:33] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:34] Ryan Gonzales: I just knew that the role was super amazing.

[38:37] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:39] Ryan Gonzales: And then when I saw the cast, I was like, you're lying.

[38:42] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:43] Ryan Gonzales: You're joking me. Like, it is amazing.

[38:46] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:46] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:48] Ryan Gonzales: And Otis, I don't know if you saw or talked to me.

[38:49] Ryan Gonzales: The Australian A24 horror film has like Zoe Tarrakis in it.

[38:52] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:54] Ryan Gonzales: Otis is in that as well.

[38:55] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[38:58] Ryan Gonzales: And he's playing Peter.

[39:00] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:00] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:01] Ryan Gonzales: So good.

[39:02] Ryan Gonzales: But he's playing Boy.

[39:03] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:03] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:06] Ryan Gonzales: It is an amazing film, actually.

[39:06] Ryan Gonzales: And he's like, he's a little superstar.

[39:09] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:09] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:12] Ryan Gonzales: And so lovely.

[39:12] Ryan Gonzales: And Olivia Diebl, who is also a superstar.

[39:14] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:14] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:16] Ryan Gonzales: So, yeah.

[39:16] Ryan Gonzales: She's playing Molly.

[39:18] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:18] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:20] Ryan Gonzales: She's written her own series.

[39:20] Ryan Gonzales: And I'm like, OK.

[39:21] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:22] Ryan Gonzales: Calm down.

[39:23] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:23] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:26] Ryan Gonzales: And she's literally 21.

[39:26] Ryan Gonzales: What have I done lately? Not written a series. I'll tell you that much.

[39:29] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:31] Ryan Gonzales: You've just been amazing in general.

[39:31] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:33] Ryan Gonzales: You've been busy.

[39:34] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:34] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:36] Ryan Gonzales: I mean, you've been busy.

[39:36] Ryan Gonzales: It is such a fantastic cast.

[39:36] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:38] Ryan Gonzales: And I'm so excited that Dead Puppet Society are part of that as well.

[39:41] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:45] Ryan Gonzales: I don't know how to describe to listeners what this show is, other than the fact that you need to see it.

[39:47] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:49] Ryan Gonzales: Like, it truly is.

[39:51] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:51] Ryan Gonzales: I'm so excited to see it.

[39:51] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:51] Ryan Gonzales: I'm so excited to see as well what this cast and this production team do with it.

[39:56] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:56] Ryan Gonzales: It truly is.

[39:56] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[39:59] Ryan Gonzales: I saw it over 10 years ago in New York.

[40:02] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:05] Ryan Gonzales: And it was, it has stuck with me ever since.

[40:05] Ryan Gonzales: Peter Pan is a story that means so, so much to me.

[40:05] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:06] Ryan Gonzales: And then I saw this production.

[40:09] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:09] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:09] Ryan Gonzales: I was like, oh my God, this is, this is what we can do.

[40:15] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:20] Ryan Gonzales: Like, this is how we can take things and adapt them really cleverly and make them more than what they are on paper as well.

[40:23] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:28] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:28] Ryan Gonzales: But then what we can do to really bring it to life is, I'm just, I'm just so, so excited.

[40:31] Ryan Gonzales: Because obviously the script on paper itself is fantastic.

[40:31] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:32] Ryan Gonzales: And I'm so excited to see you in it.

[40:32] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:33] Ryan Gonzales: I'm so excited.

[40:34] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:36] Ryan Gonzales: This, this entire cast.

[40:37] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:39] Ryan Gonzales: I'm like, bang on.

[40:40] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:42] Ryan Gonzales: Like, correct.

[40:43] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:44] Ryan Gonzales: You've been everywhere.

[40:45] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:46] Ryan Gonzales: Correct?

[40:47] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:48] Ryan Gonzales: I will give you my tick of approval, which is very important in this process.

[40:52] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:53] Ryan Gonzales: Thank you.

[40:54] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[40:57] Ryan Gonzales: And it's good that we have some more women in it.

[41:00] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:01] Ryan Gonzales: Because I think in the Broadway cast, Molly was the only female cast.

[41:06] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:07] Ryan Gonzales: So that's great.

[41:09] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:10] Ryan Gonzales: Yes.

[41:11] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:12] Ryan Gonzales: I also am super keen for the puppets.

[41:14] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:16] Ryan Gonzales: Like I've seen a little presentation of the puppetry that they're looking at doing, especially for certain characters not to be named.

[41:20] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:23] Ryan Gonzales: We will wait and see.

[41:26] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:27] Ryan Gonzales: But they're huge.

[41:28] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:30] Ryan Gonzales: They're huge.

[41:32] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:33] Ryan Gonzales: And it takes like four or five people to puppet them.

[41:36] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:37] Ryan Gonzales: So it's going to be amazing.

[41:39] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:40] Ryan Gonzales: Oh my god. Puppetry. Peter Pan. What is there not to love?

[41:42] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:43] Ryan Gonzales: Everything.

[41:44] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:45] Ryan Gonzales: Everything is to love about this show.

[41:46] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:47] Ryan Gonzales: Tori is going to be like the number one fan.

[41:48] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:49] Ryan Gonzales: I am.

[41:50] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:51] Ryan Gonzales: I am.

[41:52] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:53] Ryan Gonzales: I am.

[41:54] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:56] Ryan Gonzales: They're going to start a fan page.

[41:57] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[41:58] Ryan Gonzales: Who's to say I don't already have one?

[41:59] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:00] Ryan Gonzales: Try again.

[42:01] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:02] Ryan Gonzales: This is your One Direction.

[42:03] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:04] Ryan Gonzales: So we'll see you at the first show in Canberra.

[42:06] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:07] Ryan Gonzales: Honestly, there is a very good chance of that.

[42:09] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:10] Ryan Gonzales: I will do whatever it takes.

[42:11] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:12] Ryan Gonzales: Are you listening, producers?

[42:13] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:14] Ryan Gonzales: I will do whatever it takes.

[42:15] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:16] Ryan Gonzales: This.

[42:17] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:18] Ryan Gonzales: Nobody understands the level of love I have.

[42:19] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:20] Ryan Gonzales: This is okay.

[42:21] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:22] Ryan Gonzales: I'm one of those people that this is my equivalent to the people that saw like Moulin Rouge over like a hundred times.

[42:24] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:27] Ryan Gonzales: I will not be seeing this show just once.

[42:28] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:29] Ryan Gonzales: I rate this.

[42:30] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:31] Ryan Gonzales: I rate this for you.

[42:32] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:33] Ryan Gonzales: This is your fangirl moment.

[42:34] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[42:39] Ryan Gonzales: Anyway, I'm going to take my fangirl energy and put it into the final question.

[42:44] Tori Bullard: So.

[42:44] Ryan Gonzales: Through your own experiences as a non-binary performer in this industry, how do you feel casting in Australia is shifting?

[42:55] Tori Bullard: I mean, Peter and the Starcatcher is the best example, right?

[43:00] Ryan Gonzales: Like.

[43:01] Tori Bullard: They took a script that explicitly says.

[43:04] Ryan Gonzales: Every role in this show is cast with male actors.

[43:08] Tori Bullard: Molly is the only female.

[43:10] Ryan Gonzales: And they said, Nah, we're going to give some of the male characters to women.

[43:17] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[43:22] Ryan Gonzales: But more specifically for like non-binary characters.

[43:23] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[43:24] Ryan Gonzales: I mean, I have always thought that a lot of characters in theater, especially music theater, have been non-binary.

[43:29] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[43:31] Ryan Gonzales: I think the dream role for me is.

[43:34] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[43:34] Ryan Gonzales: Has been the MC in cabaret for years because that role is just so.

[43:41] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[43:43] Ryan Gonzales: Queer so non-binary.

[43:43] Tori Bullard: Oh my god.

[43:47] Ryan Gonzales: And because it's so obvious to me, and Australian theatre has had queer, in my opinion, leaning towards non-binary icons, like Iota, like Paul Capsis. We have them here. We just need to- I think what we're doing now is we're finding language and we're finding vehicles in order to propel non-binary ideas and gender spectrum roles to audiences so they understand what's going on. And I just think casting- I think the more you cast diversely across all aspects, whether it's body diversity, gender diversity, even cultural diversity, not just racial, not just diverse in the way that people look. Like, how do people act? That's what's been great about In the Heights, actually, because we have some performers that are Latino, that work in a Latin jazz space, that haven't done a musical before, and they bring a different energy to the show that allows the show to have a bit more vibrancy.

And that's the same with non-binary performers. They don't just have to play the non-binary or the queer role. They can play all the roles. Because acting is just about energy, to be honest. I constantly get asked, what's it like to play so many straight roles? And I'm like, Santiago ain't straight. Santiago is bi. Like, he's bisexual. But Osnavi is super straight. And I think, you know, it's always about the energy. It's about understanding what your energy is as a queer non-binary person, and also understanding what a straight person's energy is and how to emulate that. It's not about putting on a straightness, which are my favorite types of questions to answer. But yeah, I'm very excited for the future of all performers, because I think authenticity is always going to be key to connecting with audiences.

And if you have gone through a journey of queerness, a non-binary gender journey, you already have connected to yourself in an authentic way that is unknown to a lot of cis people. So of course, you're going to be able to affect because you understand yourself more, you understand your character more, and you can, you know, portray that. Yeah, and the differences between yourself and then your character. Like, those are also two things. And knowing more about yourself, you're able to take some things away that might not be the character. And then you might be able to bring things that you do into that character as well, that make it more authentic.

[47:12] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the world, the world, this is such a big comment, but the world has been designed for straight white men to succeed. And now it feels like we're just equalizing the playing field to make sure that everyone feels authentic. Because of course, straight white male actors are going to be so connected to the way that they feel, because their authenticity has always been pushed and encouraged and supported. So now I'm keen to see queer authenticity, diverse people of color feeling authentic in the spaces that they're employed, so that they can connect as deeply as the average white male.

[48:05] Tori Bullard: That's a big comment.

[48:06] Ryan Gonzales: It is a big comment. It is, but it's true. It's on the money. It's on the money.

[48:14] Tori Bullard: People often ask me, like, why everyone is pushing so hard for diversity at the moment. And I often come back with that comment because it feels like, you know, it's been set up for a certain group of people for so long that now the pendulum needs to swing the opposite way for a bit to allow everybody to have an equal playing field. So then we can continue to build from there because it hasn't been fair.

[48:43] Eliza Gunther: But that is like incredible insight, I think. And also very exciting to see where the industry is heading and that it is equalizing out because we're seeing it more and more and more. And the more you see it, the more normal it becomes. And then the more we're seeing ourselves in all of these pieces and everyone's included, rather it be like, oh, oh, the straight white male in musical theater. You're seeing a lot different.

[49:14] Ryan Gonzales: It just reminded me, though, I recently went in for an audition for something and for the first time ever, I actually got asked, did I want to do the female presenting dance call or did I want to do the male presenting dance call? Because I am non-binary. And I was like, I didn't know that I would ever get asked that question. And yes, I would like to do the male presenting dance call, actually, because I think that in this particular show, that that's where I sit. And that that was like a wild thing for me because I was like, I didn't I, you know, I look very femme presenting. I am aware of that. But I didn't think that I would actually be asked that question. It wasn't my agent that was like, hey, actually, the casting came back to us and was like, which dance call do you want to be in? And it wasn't for it wasn't for a small project either. So I was like, thank you, actually, because I would actually prefer to do this.

[50:24] Tori Bullard: Go you. This is where casting should be heading. Well, thank you very much for this incredible, insightful chat. Like it's been so much fun. But before we go, we do have a little bit of a bedtime story. So this is a stage mishap, something that's gone wrong. Can you give us a little bedtime story?

[50:44] Ryan Gonzales: I think my most memorable one, the one that makes me sick to my stomach the most is Assassin's 2018. It was the Hayes Theatre production that Dean Bryant directed, and it transferred to the Opera House in the Playhouse. And I was actually at the Hayes the other night because Lisa Campbell has stepped down as the chair of the Hayes and Richard and Vicki have taken over her spot. And we were saying a lovely thank you to Lisa. And Lisa and I were talking about the time where Bobby Fox unfortunately snapped his ankle on the opening night of Assassin's.

[51:25] Tori Bullard: Oh, my God.

[51:26] Ryan Gonzales: And there was a little show stop. And I was sitting next to Sharon Millichip and Richard Carroll, and they both leaned over and they were like, ah, you'll be on tomorrow. And I was like, whatever. I had never seen this show. I had never heard the score. I was seeing it for the first time on opening night when Bobby broke his ankle. Anyway, the show continues. One of the producers goes on for Bobby, reads the script and does the thing. And Bobby goes to hospital. And in the foyer, Lisa Campbell has already spoken to my agent, who's also there. And she comes up to me and she goes, my darling, my dear, did you like the show? And I said, yes. And then she said, do you want to be in it? And I said, sorry.

And she gave me a score and a script. I took the score and script home. I stayed up till about 1 a.m., trying to absorb as much as I could, especially the music, just listening to it over and over. I went back at 9 a.m. I did a costume fitting, had a haircut, then did six hours of rehearsal. But they taught me a loose version of the show. And I was very lucky because the character had a book with him the whole time, a book that he had written. So we just stuck the script in there. And I learnt the show. And they came up to me and they were like, look, totally up to you. We can get someone to just stand in and read the role tonight. But we think you could do it. So I performed the show the night after opening night, six hours of rehearsal.

[53:23] Tori Bullard: That is terrifying!

[53:32] Ryan Gonzales: Honestly, I think my eyes glazed over and I don't remember what happened. I don't remember how it happened. I was at the entrance at the top of the show and the characters don't leave the stage. I was at the entrance at the top of the show and then I was bowing and I was like, OK, good, great chat. We're doing it again tomorrow. OK, cool.

[54:00] Eliza Gunther: Oh my god! No! Oh my god.

[54:05] Ryan Gonzales: You would just black out. You would just be like, I think you could do it. And now we're going to do the thing. I can't think about it. You just literally have to do it. The brief was bedtime stories, but I gave you a nightmare because that's legit what all performers dream of happening. And it happened to me.

[54:26] Eliza Gunther: It's actually so true. One of my biggest nightmares is going on for Shrek. No context. Just going on for a show like Shrek, playing Princess Fiona, not knowing any of the lines and being like, yes, you're on tomorrow. That is terrifying. But also you could conquer the world after that.

[54:45] Ryan Gonzales: Yep. I was like, OK, good luck. You just can't say no as well. It's like, well, I'm not going to say no. Who would say no? Well, it was such a good show. Like, it was such a good show. It's one of my favorite things I've ever seen. And the concept was brilliant. And then you were like, now I'm a part of it. And then I was a part of it doing a jump, jumping like a jump rope number with a light rope.

[55:16] Eliza Gunther: OK, the jump rope is coming back in. The jump rope, you know, all your skills, they're coming into play.

[55:22] Ryan Gonzales: Yeah. Well, that was brilliant. Thank you very much for that. We needed that. Thank you so, so much for sharing that bedtime story turned nightmare. Thank you so much as well for taking the time to come on and have such a fantastic chat with us today. We truly, truly appreciate it. But before we go, this is your opportunity to plug yourself, what you're doing, what's coming next. Give us all the details.

[55:52] Ryan Gonzales: Well, my name is Ryan Gonzalez. I'm an Australian actor. No, I'm kidding. I'm currently playing Usnavi in In the Heights at the Opera House. We're playing until the 25th of August. So you can see me there. Or I'm about to do a tour of Peter and the Star Catcher, which is going it's hitting all of the places in Australia, including Adelaide and Canberra, Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne. You can find that through the website. If you go to my Instagram, you can find it there. But I also am maybe writing a little bit of music. Hopefully that will be coming out at some point. Some sexy, queer, new age, 2024 jazz, because we all need that. So we shall see how that goes.

[56:44] Eliza Gunther: Oh my God. Stop it. OK, everyone keep your ears peeled for that.

[56:48] Ryan Gonzales: So let's see. Cheeky little, cheeky little drop in there.

[56:53] Eliza Gunther: Yeah. So, yeah, I'm doing lots of things. I would pay good money. I would pay really good money to listen to you do Hello, Little Girl again, like you did at the Hayes for Days at the Hayes. I would pay such good money to hear that again because I seriously, I'd heard that my partner Stasia, who was the stage manager for that, I we would just I was messaging them after I was like, I don't understand. I don't understand the feelings that I'm feeling right now.

[57:30] Ryan Gonzales: Well, I was always like this song because Little Red sings that song, right. But it's a little bit sexual. It's very sexual. So I was like, hmm, what if this was inversed? Like, what if the wolf sang this song? And that was the idea.

[57:50] Eliza Gunther: Thank you so much again for taking the time and for being here. Seriously, we've had the absolute best time chatting with you, but that's it for today. So thank you so much again to you, Ryan, for being here and chatting with us. And thank you so much to our wonderful listeners for being here and tuning into this episode. And until next time, stay happy, healthy and safe, and we will see you then.

[58:14] Tori Bullard: Bye.

[58:15] Eliza Gunther: Bye.