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[0:00] Tori Bullard: We would like to acknowledge the Tharawal people of the Eora Nation and the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. We pay respect to the traditional custodians of this land on which we work, live, and record, and strive to continue in the tradition of Australia's first storytellers. We acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.

[0:21] Tori Bullard: Hello everyone and welcome back to Stage Door Podcast. Season 6 is in full swing and we're having a blast thanks to you, our listeners. If you're vibing with the show, hit us with a rate and review. It's quick, easy, and helps us keep the good stuff coming. Today, we're kicking off part 1 of our chat with the powerhouse team behind Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown, director Alex Berlage and choreographer Chiara Assetta. We're getting into the creative chaos of the rehearsal room, staging comedy in an intimate space, and the big vision behind this cult classic. So, without further ado, please welcome to the mic Alex and Chiara.

[1:02] Alexander Berlage: Hello, hello.

[1:03] Chiara Assetta: Hello.

[1:04] Tori Bullard: Thank you so much for both taking the time to come on and chat with me today. And you're very busy. You literally, you open tomorrow. That's crazy.

[1:12] Alexander Berlage: That's correct. Yeah, no, we're in the midst of previews and we're, you know, we're really excited to be opening tomorrow night at The Hayes.

[1:19] Tori Bullard: Crazy. And are you on the verge of a nervous breakdown currently?

[1:23] Alexander Berlage: Always. I think I've said it too many times.

[1:27] Chiara Assetta: Yeah, I feel like production week is kind of, like, that is the, like, the definition of production week. Like, I'm currently, I'm currently in the theatre at The Hayes right now in the foyer. And, you know, there's, like, you know, a hive of activity happening behind me in the theatre as we desperately prepare for our final preview. And, like, yeah, I think it's, you sort of oscillate in production week between having moments of, like, absolute excitement and moments of, like, you know, verging on a breakdown as you stumble your way through to opening. So, yeah, it's kind of the best place. It's the best context to make a show like this.

[2:02] Alexander Berlage: Yeah, I feel like all the actors are going really method, you know, in tech week of just, like, you know, not really even needing to act. It's just all coming to them.

[2:12] Chiara Assetta: And for those who are, like, for those who are not familiar with, like, you know, production weeks, you know, you spend, like, you know, a certain amount of time in a rehearsal room and then, like, over, over, like, three days or so, you know, you just, like, essentially, like, explode the show through all these lighting cues, all these sound cues, all these costumes. Suddenly there's new props. The stage is a little bit different to what you thought it was going to be and, like, oh, I'm wearing heels for this number. I had no idea. Like, it's all of this information is coming at you and you just have to be like, sure, this is what we're doing. Great, great. So, you know, and the cast are incredible. Like, they're all, like, some of the funniest, smartest humans I've, like, ever met. And yeah, it's absolute chaos, but we wouldn't have it any other way.

[3:00] Alexander Berlage: Yeah, chaos in the best way.

[3:02] Chiara Assetta: Yeah.

[3:02] Alexander Berlage: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like, and that's just, that is just what Tech Week is for.

[3:07] Chiara Assetta: A hundred percent. And this is why we love it.

[3:10] Alexander Berlage: Yeah. And it's like this, like, it's also almost then even more rewarding when you get to, like, opening night because you know just how much craziness has gone into getting to this moment.

[3:21] Chiara Assetta: Absolutely.

[3:22] Alexander Berlage: Totally.

[3:22] Chiara Assetta: I think it's also one of those things as well where in Tech Week is also a very, it's like a trauma bonding week for everyone. I think, like, everyone's experiencing so many new elements at the same time. But I feel like without Tech Week, it then doesn't take you to that point. You then get to an opening night where you're all like, we did it. And we did it all together. Like, you know, I think that's also an important part, even though it is chaos and it is all of us on the verge. I think it's like that other element that is, like, needed to, like, get the adrenaline of where the show needs to go for any show, really. But specifically this one, it's like the chaos, I guess, helps.

[4:03] Alexander Berlage: Yeah. And like the Hayes Theatre is like, you know, they're kind of, the general, the thing that has made the Hayes so special is, like, it's essentially a place where you see shows that were designed for, like, big Broadway or West End stages, which are often double, if not triple the size of the Hayes stage, with a musical often designed for a cast double or triple the size of the cast of the Hayes, in it for a theatre, double or triple, or even, like, quadruple the size of the Hayes. And so you're, like, smooshing these massive shows into this incredibly intimate space. And it's kind of the thing that makes it so, so exciting. But also, like, it, you know, it's, kind of the best, it's the best challenge. And when you kind of get to that side where suddenly everything clicks together, it's like absolute magic.

[4:53] Chiara Assetta: Absolutely. And I mean, I guess for people listening who don't know anything about the show, like myself, I didn't know anything about it until it actually came to the Hayes. Give us a really brief little, what is the show? What is it about?

[5:05] Alexander Berlage: Well, the show is essentially based off a film by Pedro Almodovar, who's, like, an incredible Spanish film director. If you're not familiar with him, like, I recommend giving him a Google. He's, like, an icon of cinema. And you've probably, like, seen images or had, like, references from his films, like, pass across your sort of existence without even knowing. But, like, incredible, incredible filmmaker. And, you know, this was turned into a musical starring, you know, the one and only Patti LuPone on Broadway quite a few years ago now. And it follows the story of Peppa, who's, like, an actress who essentially starts the story being broken up with via voicemail message by her lover. And then sort of that sort of is the impetus for, kind of, like, you know, a day of just absolute chaos where, like, stuff just keeps crumbling and falling to pieces around.

And her and her friends are just dealing with all of the chaos in life. And, you know, I'll kind of leave it there. You can essentially sort of, you know, kind of assume where things go. But it's a story of, kind of, like, dealing with, kind of, life when everything just feels like it's on fire and finding a way through and finding a way to, kind of, like, take control and persevere.

[6:24] Chiara Assetta: Amazing. I think that that is exactly what we need going into it. Just a little bit of context. But it sounds, and from what I've heard and seen as you guys have been in tech, because obviously people listening already know this, that I work at The Hayes, so I've seen little snippets behind the scenes. It is not at all what I expected the show to sound like, which is, I think, really exciting as, like, an audience member going into a show and having, kind of, no idea what to expect. And, I mean, for you, Alex, to start with the big picture, when you first approached Women on the Verge, what excited you about this show? And how did you begin to shape your vision for it?

[7:04] Alexander Berlage: Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know. It just, sort of, happened that somehow I just end up working on shows that have been, like, cult classic films that have been turned into musicals, which weren't incredibly successful in their original seasons, because I think the material or the, kind of, context was, like, too wide in its reach in terms of, like, commerciality or, like, or, sort of, trying to appeal to, like, you know, the masses. And so, I think, like, what really, what I was really drawn to was an incredibly, kind of, like, kooky and, you know, and fascinating, and, like, story, but also, like, a deeply human story that, you know, I thought could have, like, more, like, heart and rawness, and more, kind of, cheeky humour, sort of, brought to it.

So, that was, kind of, my challenge. It's like, how do we, what can we do, what can we, kind of, do to this to slightly reframe and, sort of, bring it closer to the original film? And it, sort of, it felt like the perfect piece to do in the Hayes Theatre, because I think it, sort of, demands a sense of intimacy, like, being based off a film, you, kind of, like, you want to be close to the action, you want to, sort of, you know, be right in there with, like, the chaos.

[8:19] Chiara Assetta: It's always interesting to me, the shows that are brought to the Hayes are so often shows, not always, some things, like, for example, Producers, which is, obviously, always has been wildly successful, but shows that are lesser-known, things like Ride the Cyclone, that have, like, cult followings, and there's, like, a cult classic, but it has never been, traditionally speaking, a main stage success or anything like that, so it's always really interesting to see them come to Theatre, like, the Hayes, and how, like, well they sell, how audiences respond, and the amount of people that, like, when they call to book tickets, they're just, like, oh, that, like, wonder about, like, the nervous breakdown or whatever, and then hearing them later come back and being, like, that was, like, one of the best shows I've ever seen, and you're, like, we, we know, we didn't know, but we know now, and that's, yeah, so exciting when I think you don't, when something hasn't been a main stage success, and to see it revisited and brought to life again in such an intimate space as well.

[9:15] Alexander Berlage: Totally, yeah, I mean, like, there's, I mean, like, I'm, you know, I feel like sometimes in, you know, in the musical theatre world, we can kind of forget that there's other musicals besides Cats, Les Mis and Wicked, and so, so I think that, like, it's, it's nice, you know, for, like, for us to kind of realise that there's so many other incredible works and stories that can be told, and, like, that's one of my big, like, my big, my favourite things is kind of, like, delving through the, sort of, the musical theatre canon to, sort of, find the other little treasures.

[9:49] Chiara Assetta: Yeah, absolutely, because there are so many out there that just not enough people know about, like, I feel like, at the start, Hadestown was very similar, and it's become this phenomenon now. Six was very similar when it kind of first started to exist in the UK, and it was kind of this thing that I was like, my god, you have to listen to this, and people were like, like, it's not, I'll stick to, like, the classics and what I know, and then they become these, like, massive things, and I'm like, there was a reason, there's a reason that it becomes that way.

[10:24] Alexander Berlage: Absolutely, and I also feel like The Hayes is such a special place, too, where it's this black box that can be also transformed for these unique and, like, incredible productions that, yeah, potentially didn't have much of a life on Broadway or on West End, but the second, like, we get into The Hayes and we can, like, you know, put our little creative, you know, sprinkles on top to, like, finesse and do it in a way that feels right for our version of the show, I think it also, The Hayes allows us to transform this little space into, like, this, like, magic, you know, magic little theatre, and I think that's also another reason why I love walking into The Hayes and seeing a show that I may not necessarily know a lot about, but then I feel so intimately close and connected to it because of just how The Hayes kind of, like, hugs you in the theatre, I guess you could say.

[11:15] Chiara Assetta: Yeah, totally, and, like, for example, like, I remember going to see, like, Ghost Quartet, like, beginning of the year of The Hayes, and I was, like, that was one of the most beautiful, like, musical theatre experiences I've ever had because I was, like, I knew nothing about it, but, like, it was just, like, four incredible voices, like, engaging with, like, a stunning score, and, like, that, like, that is, to me, is, like, someone, you know, that's, like, the power of musical theatre, where it's just, like, really good performers and a really, like, great story or a great score, you know, and to experience that, like, in the intimacy of The Hayes, like, it feels, like, really special.

[11:52] Alexander Berlage: Absolutely. I think Ghost Quartet, for me, is actually one of my top shows that I've ever seen, and I knew nothing about it prior to seeing it. I think I saw it on closing night, and I wish that I had seen it sooner because I just went because I was, like, this sounds interesting. I love Natasha Peer and the Great Comet of 1812, so I want to see their other work, and it was truly one of the most beautiful pieces of theatre that I've ever seen, and it was so unassuming, and I love it.

[12:24] Chiara Assetta: Chiara, your choreography always feels super story-driven and so characterful. How did you approach movement for this show, especially with the intimacy and the limitations of the Hayes space?

[12:45] Chiara Assetta: Great question. I remember when I had my first meeting with Alex and he was like, so, this is the set. And I was like, where do they, where do they move? For those that don't, haven't seen it yet, you will get to see that for the Hayes space that is already a pretty limiting space because it's so little, because we wanted to make our show as chaotic and like as, you know, as amplified and loud as possible, because that is what the show is. We wanted our set to also match that energy, which, you know, our incredible creative team have done such an incredible job at designing. But yeah, there was a moment where I was like, okay, this is, there's not a lot of space. But in the same breath, I was like, how incredible that I have this challenge to work around having to like, you know, really get my brain into a gear where I had to go, how can I creatively make this exciting in a world where, you know, it has to fit the story.

And I think that for our show, and for other shows that I've choreographed, the chore should never, like, yes, it's the flair of me as a choreographer, but the choreography should never ever be the same, because it should be fitting the story that you're telling. And then you have elements that allow you to then, you know, have obstacles or barriers or things like that, that make you have to tunnel vision the chore specific for that show, which is why I loved when I did see the set, I was like, no, this makes sense. Like, they are all on the verge of a nervous breakdown, as will I when I chore this, so that's perfect. And so I think it allowed me to be able to kind of like, you know, I guess think outside the box, which I also love doing, because it means that, you know, I'm a big believer as a choreographer, that the chore should be there to hold the hand of the story, not all of a sudden, it's like, oh, and now there's chore.

It's like, I feel like it should assist the story and telling the story, rather than it feeling like it's just sitting in a weird world of its own. So I always really try and make sure that whatever I'm, whatever story we're trying to tell, it's, it's in hand in hand of, you know, with the text, with the music, so that the audience are just able to understand what's going on, through storytelling, a little bit better and being assisted by choreography, rather than it being like, here's the story, here's the choreography. Like it's nice to be able to marry the two together to tell the story in a way that audiences are like more impacted by, you know, what they feel without even knowing sometimes, I think that's the best thing too, when someone walks away from a show, and they're like, oh, I just like feel so many things.

And I don't even know why. And it's like, when they feel that it's because, you know, all of the bits of thing, all of the elements have all come together and played like a really beautiful part with each other. So I think, yeah, my aim is always to try and make sure that the chore is just an element that supports the text. And I think that always helps tell the story best. And yeah, with this show in particular, being able to play with the elements of, you know, all of our sets and props telling that story has also incorporated, you know, the magic of what the show is.

[16:09] Alexander Berlage: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that also helps from a performer standpoint, of knowing that the movement and the choreography is there to help the story. I feel like sometimes you do a show or work on something, but the choreography feels so separate from what is happening that it's almost, it's hard to remember, it's harder to get into it and feel what you're doing, because it just feels like its own separate thing. And for some shows that can definitely work, but for others, from like an audience point of view, and from a performer's point of view, it is, I think, so important, because otherwise, it doesn't feel, it feels almost fake.

[16:50] Chiara Assetta: 100%.

[16:51] Alexander Berlage: Like, why is this happening?

[16:52] Chiara Assetta: I think it also helps being a performer first, because, I mean, I'm always constantly kind of saying to myself, why am I doing this? Like, especially when you are, when you are given something as a performer, you are like, what is the intention behind this? Why am I doing this arm? You know, and so I think, you know, having the background of performing, every time I go into chore, I'm always like, okay, what's the intention of why I'm making them go over here, or lift this leg? Or like, you know, like, why is that happening? What is the motivation behind that? And it's also the same vocally, too. I find sometimes a lot of choreographers not being performers are just like, oh, they'll be fine doing that and singing, where like, no, a lot of the time, you're like, yeah, good luck, you try doing that and singing at the same time.

So every time I choreograph, I also sing while I'm doing it to try and make sure that the performers will be okay. And so whenever I get into the room, I always preface it by saying, now, I know every performer is different, but I have sung and danced this at the same time. So it is doable in a world. And all the performers are like, damn it, she's done it at the same time. She's figured it out. I guess I'm like, no excuses. But no, there's always communicating with the artist as well. And because every performer is different, and I always want to cater to the performers that we have as well, making sure that they feel, you know, strong and really powerful in what they're doing in storytelling, they're saying, too.

So there's a lot of playing around as well with the performers to make sure that they feel, you know, comfortable and happy in the movement that I also give them as well. So there's a fine line between what is kind of set and then what is explored in the space to make them feel the best version of themselves on stage as well.

[18:39] Chiara Assetta: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, there's a real challenge, I think, in balancing farce, heart and surrealism in this piece. What did the rehearsal process look like in making sure that those tones felt cohesive?

[18:53] Alexander Berlage: I mean, I feel like the rehearsal process felt like it was all those three things all at once. Like, it's like, we rehearsed, it's like the general model for like rehearsing at AIDS is you often rehearse, you know, the show in three weeks, which at times can be an absolute farce, but in order to achieve it, you need to approach it with heart. I mean, it is a tricky thing because the more and more like we go into it, it's sort of kind of like a, this music was kind of like a farce that happens to have songs in a sort of, in a way, like it's, there's a lot of kind of like big scenes in it with like a lot of people on stage. And it's like, you know, and they kind of do sort of tend to lean into that kind of conventional farce sort of world, but at the same time, there's like other scenes which are like deeply like raw and human.

And then you have like a big like Lady Gaga musical number, you know, thrown into there. So it's kind of like, you know, something for everyone. But like, you know, it's sort of, it kind of goes to all of these different places and it's really, it's really kind of like interesting structure and kind of tone. And that's something that we've been trying to navigate our way around where it's every sort of character's arc is not just like, I am the funny person or like, I am the kind of the kooky one or like, I am the straight. There's this sort of like oscillation where like, where every single moment or scene, the kind of the balance is constantly shifting between like drama, melodrama, farce, realism.

And it is kind of quite clever in the way it kind of does that because as a, you as an audience member, I kind of, I suppose sort of like the process is kind of messy and chaotic as is the life that our characters find ourselves in. And we sort of like, as we sort of go deeper and deeper and sort of really starting to like label where each scene, where each character kind of sits in, in the context, it's like, what it's basically revealing is just like real life, you know what I mean? And we kind of like, we sort of like, and the fact that you can't just like, you know, say life is a farce or life is a drama or like that, it's kind of like, it's just indicative of just like, you know, you wake up every day and like, you know, you sipped over a banana and then the next minute you get a phone call and like, you know, you're at the hospital because, you know, something terrible has happened. But that's kind of like, that's the craziness of what we find ourselves in is this oscillation between drama, comedy, absurdism and absolute surrealism.

[21:36] Chiara Assetta: And what a gorgeous combination.

[21:38] Alexander Berlage: Yeah.

[21:39] Chiara Assetta: Yeah, it is. And it does. And it feels like, I think whilst it is definitely heightened, it is like that's life. And that's, that's what, you know, so much of theatre is based on, even if it's something like Wicked or Cats, where you're like, this is not set in reality. It is, it's based around life and life experiences. And it's just set in a tone that maybe you might look at first and be like, this is fast, this never happens. But by the end of it, you're like, oh, actually, yeah, okay, like, this is, it's just like a nicer way of being like, this is life. And sometimes it sucks. And sometimes it's great. And you never really know what you're going to get. And like, leaves you feeling both light, but also gives you so much to think about as well, which I think is some of the best kinds of theatre.

[22:28] Chiara Assetta: 100%. It's my favourite.

[22:30] Alexander Berlage: I think it's nice as well, like being able to go to a show and seeing like, a glimpse of you or someone you know, and like, being like, oh my god, I can absolutely relate to this feeling or to this moment or to this character, because then I feel like it then allows you to like go away and like, you know, the way our show ends, which I won't spoil, but the way that, you know, I would hope people leave the theatre is like, thinking to themselves, oh, I could relate to that in some way, and then take something away with them, which I think is always a beautiful thing. When you leave the theatre, like that escapism that allows you to just kind of like, float away for a little bit and come into the theatre and just have a good laugh and time with the people you love and then to walk away and also just like, feel something too. Like, I think that's a beautiful thing to experience.

[23:17] Chiara Assetta: Absolutely. And that is part of the reason why diversity in theatre is so important, because we want to be able to see ourselves, our friends, our family, just the world around us, portrayed on stage.

[23:27] Alexander Berlage: Absolutely. Totally.

[23:35] Tori Bullard: But on that note, we're gonna bring, we're gonna wrap up part one of our chat with Alex and Chiara, but before we do that, give the show a plug. Where can people find tickets, the Instagram, all the good stuff?

[23:44] Chiara Assetta: Well, yeah, so you can go to the Hayes Theatre website and yeah, the show's called Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown. We're playing at the Hayes until I think the 9th of June and yeah, open on the 14th of May, yeah, run to the 9th of June and come along.

[24:01] Tori Bullard: Amazing. Well, remember guys, Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown is currently playing at the Hayes Theatre until the June 8th. I could have got that date wrong. So get your tickets and stick around for a sneak peek of what's coming up in part two. This has happened to me before where I've learned choreography and I've learned it so down to like the breath that I saw that choreographer take in the video and then they get in there and they're like, so we're actually going to mess it up and my brain's like.

[24:35] Chiara Assetta: I know. No, I memorized it like every little flick of your finger you did. I made sure I knew.