This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's theater podcast, your backstage pass to revealing conversations with stars, creators, and industry leaders, on Broadway, off Broadway, and beyond. I'm Gordon Cox.

[0:17] Gordon Cox: On this episode of Stagecraft, I'm talking to the musician, recording artist, and actor Adam Lambert. He's best known, of course, as the glam rocker whose breakout came on Season 8 of American Idol, and he's gone on to record four albums, including the recent cover album, High Drama. He's also toured for the last several years with the remaining active members of Queen. More recently, however, he's returned to his musical theater roots, making his Broadway debut last year in Cabaret. Now he's set to star as Judas, opposite Cynthia Erivo as Jesus, in the upcoming concert staging of Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood Bowl. Lambert is in the virtual studio with me to tell us why American Idol is like being in a musical, what it was like being an understudy in the national tour of Wicked, and share a few tidbits about the new musical that he's writing the songs for. Hi, Adam. Thanks for joining me.

[1:11] Adam Lambert: My pleasure.

[1:12] Gordon Cox: So, you made your Broadway debut just last year, but it seems as if musical theater has been a big part of your life, sort of from early on. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[1:24] Adam Lambert: Yeah, I mean, theater was really, like, pretty much my identity growing up. You know, I was about 10 years old, and my parents had tried to find me, like, an activity for all my excess energy, and we had tried sports, and that didn't really take.

[1:38] Gordon Cox: What'd you try playing?

[1:40] Adam Lambert: I think I tried indoor soccer, and I made one goal, and I was like, okay, I'm good, I'm gonna quit. And then, so my mom found this children's theater group that was local, and I tried it out, and I loved it, like, from jump. The first production we did was Your Good Man, Charlie Brown, and I played Linus with a blanket. And I just loved it. I mean, I loved being in front of an audience, I loved the creativity of it, the make-believe of it. I think my parents recognized that in me, just, you know, the way I played, and my imagination. They were like, okay, this is probably the outlet. And it really was. I mean, I stayed with that children's theater group for many years, and learned a lot, and made friends.

And, you know, when I got into middle school, it was tricky, socially. You know, I was, like, the weird kid, so I was a bit of a loner. But I had this theater group I was a part of, and we would rehearse every Saturday, and that was, you know, that was sort of my guiding light. That was the place where I felt valued and appreciated, you know?

[2:52] Adam Lambert: This is in San Diego. I grew up in San Diego. This theater group, was this a community company? Was this a community group of...

[2:58] Adam Lambert: It was called, at the time, it was called CTN, Children's Theater Network. I think they ended up calling it MET later. And it was run by a gentleman named Alex Urban and Kathy Breches, and they were incredible. I learned so much. And it was an interesting format. They had, when they would cast a musical, they didn't cast just one kid in every role. They would, like, throughout the rehearsal process, which was about two months, you would sort of, like, have a long-form audition. You know, they would have you come up, and you were competing with other kids as potential actors for these roles. And then, when it would come time to do the actual production, each kid would get a different show.

[3:43] Gordon Cox: Mm-hmm. I see.

[3:45] Adam Lambert: And it was sort of ranked, you know? Like, Friday night was the big night, you know? That was, like, almost like first place, second place, third place, depending on what show you get. If you were a matinee, you were, like, fifth or sixth place. And it was interesting, because you don't usually have that type of structure in theater, but it, in a way, was almost like a sport. You know what I mean? It was really competitive. And I'm really grateful for that, because it taught me to sort of fight for what I wanted. You know what I mean? And it lit a fire under my ass and made me want to be the best, you know? And I think that's something, like, I think nowadays, kids, you know, it's that concept of, like, every kid gets a trophy. But, you know, back then, it was, like, kind of school of hard knocks when it came to performing. And I think that was really good for me.

[4:35] Gordon Cox: What you mentioned, Linus, were there other roles or shows that were very important to you at this time?

[4:41] Adam Lambert: I think as I got a little older, like, I started getting cast in bigger parts. I mean, I remember playing, like, Joseph in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. I played Huck Finn in Big River. I played Archibald Craven in Secret Garden. I played, I mean, it was like, we did a ton of shows. I played the Scarecrow in The Wiz, which was really interesting, because we had a production of The Wiz in Southern California, where I think there were mostly white kids. I look back on it now, and I'm like, oh, that's so bad. It wouldn't happen today, maybe.

[5:17] Gordon Cox: No, it would not, and I'm a little bit ashamed of it. But the music on that show was incredible, so I had a great time.

[5:25] Gordon Cox: And then you initially went to college to study musical theater, at least briefly. Is that right?

[5:31] Adam Lambert: Yeah, briefly. I, you know, and I also, I had a lot of experience in high school, too. When I got in high school, I was really involved in the drama department and the choir department, and we did musicals. So that was sort of extending what I was doing in the children's theater group. I played, like, Frederick in the Pirates of Penzance. I played, we did some plays as well. So yeah, high school was also a really good training ground. I did, like, Midsummer Night's Dream, so we did some Shakespeare. I mean, I got a well-rounded sort of take on things. And then I was like, yeah, okay, this is what I want to do, and I want to be on Broadway. I applied to schools that were, like, you know, high-end, sort of well-known schools on the East Coast, like NYU, Boston Conservatory.

But what was funny was, because I was so involved in theater and these extracurricular activities outside of school as well, my grades were like, okay. I was like a B average. I didn't really try that hard, because I wanted to put my energy into what I loved. And so I didn't get accepted to any of those schools. I didn't get into any of them. And, you know, I didn't do all the things you're supposed to do for extra credit and all this stuff, all the game that you have to play, and I didn't do it. So, you know, it came time to figure out something, and I got accepted into Cal State Fullerton in Orange County. And they had an MFA program, and so that was sort of the attractive part of that school.

And right as classes started, after I graduated, I had gotten cast in a professional production, or semi-professional production, at a Civic Light Opera in Vista, which is North County, San Diego, at Moonlight. And it was a production of Grease, and I was playing Doody, so I got to sing a song. And I was so excited, because this was the first sort of role that I had in a semi-professional production. You know, there were professional actors in there with us, and I was knee-deep in tech rehearsals as my classes started. And I had an apartment up there, and I was commuting back and forth, and I kind of very quickly was skipping classes, and not going that day, and not going that day. And I remember I just woke up one morning, and I'm like, I don't want to go to school.

I just want to learn on the job. Like, I've been doing theater long enough where I felt like I could work. And so I dropped out of school, and my parents were shocked and kind of freaked out. They were like, no, no, no, no, no. I remember my father said to me, he was like, okay, well, you're going to need to pay your own way then. Like, I'm not going to pay for your apartment or your life. So I had to get a job, and that began a decade of really hustling and working. And I worked in retail. I did freelance stuff. I got little gigs here and there for singing, and really was the struggling artist's life for the next ten years.

[8:47] Gordon Cox: You also, you were in the national tour of Wicked, is that right?

[8:51] Adam Lambert: Yeah, obviously that came later. That was, yeah, a few years after living in LA, after a handful of different jobs and shows, I booked the first national tour, and understudied Fiyero, and was in the ensemble. And I did that, I did it for about six months, and I think that was the longest I'd ever done a show. You know, up until that point in LA, and then, you know, children's theater and stuff, it was like a couple weeks, you know, you wouldn't run that long. So that was a really interesting new experience of doing something over, and over, and over again, and kind of going, oh, right, this is what it is, you know? And, you know, we got to the first national, we opened in Toronto, we went to Chicago for a while, we came to LA for a while, and then San Francisco.

And then I was ready to leave the show. And, you know, at that point, I had started fantasizing about wanting to be an artist, like a recording artist. And, you know, and so I left the show saying, oh, I'm going to go be a rock star.

[9:55] Gordon Cox: That was my next question, actually, is, I'd love to hear more about that transition, and when you started thinking of yourself, when you started to shift away, at least for that moment, away from musical theater and into, you know, becoming a recording artist, what was that, what was that pull for you?

[10:11] Adam Lambert: Well, I mean, I think when I left the show, I ended up, like, starting a band with some guys, and that was a really interesting experience, because they were all sort of, like, straight metal heads. So it was like, I was definitely, like, sort of doing a little metal cosplay for a minute. And I didn't really love that kind of music, but I was like, oh, you guys like me? Okay, I'll do it, you know what I mean? And just started doing some, like, I was playing on, like, GarageBand on my computer, and just sort of, like, just playing with it, you know? It wasn't, it didn't really ever present itself for a few more years as, like, an actual possibility, you know? But I think there was a part of me that, you know, doing theater for that long, it was always like, okay, you're going to play this part, this is the character, this is what you wear, this is how you behave, this is the song.

And I really loved it, but I think there was a part of me that really was craving the opportunity to express myself, you know, to express Adam, and I develop an identity in that way. I had, you know, socially, I had started going out a lot in LA, and going to, like, weird clubs that were, like, you know, where people were sort of club kids, and dressing up, and I, you know, was going to things like Burning Man, and there was a whole community of people here that were sort of part of that world, sort of in, like, a neo-hippie community, and going to events, and there were a lot of performance artists, and there were a lot of substances, and there were a lot of very, very free and wild people that I was meeting. So I was very inspired.

[11:58] Adam Lambert: And how would you characterize the identity that you found, the Adam that you found as a musician as you were exploring yourself at that point? I mean, that's a good question. I think I just, I don't think I had figured it out yet. I think I was just really thirsty for opportunities, and I was trying to figure it out. And after coming back, I was in a relationship for the first time, and I quickly ran out of money from the national tour of Wicked and was kind of like, okay, now what do I do? I remember getting a job again in retail for a second thinking, I'll just work and then going, why am I doing this? I'm a professional actor. I have my equity card. Why am I working behind a makeup counter?

So that lasted for five minutes. And then, and then I heard that Wicked was going to come back and do a set down production in LA at the Pantages Theater. And so I begged to get put back in. And I was cast. So I did that for the next two years. And while I was doing that, I was still pursuing and developing these opportunities of being an artist. I met people and started doing some writing in a publishing place and working in a studio and recording original music, doing some demo session work as well, singing songs that other people wrote. And it just developed. And then American Idol happened at some point in there? Yeah, pretty much. That's kind of the timeline. I think at that point, I had been in the show for two years.

And I think I was still understudying. And I think I was a little frustrated that I wasn't getting promoted. You know what I mean? Because they had had two different actors come through in the role. And I was like, well, this feels like a dead end. I'm just doing it. And yes, it was paying my bills. And at the time, it was really good money for me. And I kind of had an epiphany where I was like, okay, you need to just throw yourself into any opportunity that comes your way. Say yes to everything. A friend of mine was like, hey, I'm an audition for American Idol. You want to come? And I was like, okay. Yes. And we went up to San Francisco where the audition was. And I had to wait in this cattle call for hours and hours and hours.

And I sang and I got through the next round and then the next round and the rest is history. So it was really interesting because in order to progress past the first two auditions, I had to quit my job at Wicked because of contractual legalities. You can't be part of anything professional. You can't have any representation. You can't be in any contract of any kind. So I quit. It was sort of a gamble. I'm like, well, this is my job. This is my bread and butter. And I'm quitting. And unfortunately, at that point, I hadn't really saved much money. I was living paycheck to paycheck. So it was a bit of a leap of faith. But I remember talking to the producer that was telling me that I had to and I was like, well, that's kind of risky.

And I remember he looked at me and he was kind of like, I think you're gonna be okay. I think you got a good shot here. I was like, oh, that's good to know. And so yeah, I took the leap. I'll have more with Adam right after this break.

[15:54] Gordon Cox: And now here's more of my conversation with Adam Lambert. Was being on American Idol and the live performance aspect of it, how was that informed by your work? Were you helped at all by your work in musical theater as you started to really excel on American Idol?

[16:13] Adam Lambert: A hundred percent. It definitely made me understand the show business of it all, both in my performances and in the politics of what it was behind the scenes. I was 29 at that point. I was the oldest one on my season and really the only one with real professional experience. So it really helped me stay grounded and understand what the producers were attempting to create. When you go into an audition for musical theater, it's like the mindset is you kind of go in there going, yeah, I want the job, but you can kind of trick yourself for your own confidence and kind of say, okay, well, what do you guys need? What are you looking for? How can I help you? That's sort of an old trick for auditioning.

And so I kind of approached it that way. I recognized very quickly that it's a TV show, and that was the most important thing to them. And I remember auditioning for the show in front of the judges with a Michael Jackson song, and they all kind of looked at me blankly. And then I went, okay, well, what do you guys, can I do something else? What are you looking for? And I said, and well, they were like, well, what do you have? And I'm like, and I thought to myself, okay, I'm going to do some classic rock because that's the other direction I could go. You know what I mean? And so that's when I sang Bohemian Rhapsody, and it seemed to click in that moment.

[17:53] Gordon Cox: I see. Yeah. Because it seems just from an outsider's point of view that you have a real affinity for that kind of classic, particularly glam kind of rock era. Is that an affinity you've always had all along?

[18:04] Adam Lambert: Yeah, it's funny. There's so much music that I love. And I think professionally outside of theater, I had done a lot of other types of vocal work, like I said, like singing sessions and doing corporate entertainment and doing a gig here and a gig there. I sang everything. I would have to do a Motown song for something. I would have to do a classic rock song for something. I would have to do something classical. I could kind of do a handful of different things. I think when I got on Idol, I recognized pretty quickly, okay, they want to put me in a lane here for their show. And I knew, you know, considering the fact that I liked, you know, that I was pretty flamboyant, I liked to wear weird outfits and makeup.

And I had had this whole history of being in this alternative community. I was like, okay, so the glam rock thing is a fit. That makes sense. It's like it matches all the things that I am, the theatricality, the vocal range, all of it. So I think I kind of chose that lane because I thought it would be an easy sell.

[19:10] Gordon Cox: Yeah, yeah. And so that is, of course, how most folks got to know you and your work is through American Idol and then through the albums and then your work with Queen. But more recently, as we mentioned earlier, you made your Broadway debut in Cabaret. Why was returning to musical theater something that was of interest to you?

[19:26] Adam Lambert: You know, I think, like I said, I spent so long playing other parts, other characters and, you know, getting to sort of be a chameleon. And when I broke away from theater, my impulse was, oh, I want to be myself. I want to express me. I want to develop my own thing. I think when the opportunity came up, it was kind of like, oh, yeah, it's been 15 years since I've gotten to, like, do a show and be somebody else. And that just was really appealing to me. I had seen this production of Cabaret in London. I saw Eddie Redmayne do the part, and it was so cool. I was really impressed by it. And that's when the conversation started. And I was just excited to do something new, something new that was kind of old for me, but new again, you know. And it's a show that I was familiar with anyway, and it's a great part. And I was ready for the experience to do something different.

[20:33] Gordon Cox: Was there an element of going back into musical theater that was surprisingly challenging for you to slip back into, to sort of get into the groove of?

[20:39] Adam Lambert: I mean, obviously, it's different. It's a different discipline. Obviously, doing six months' worth of shows, seven shows a week, it's like, oh, right. I haven't worked that consistently, that regularly since I did a show 15 years ago. So it's definitely a different work ethic and a workload and a discipline of always making every show feel fresh and give the illusion of the first time to the audience. I think the other thing that was, you know, and I knew all of this, but kind of, oh, right, I was kind of reminded, is like, you know, in a show like that, on a Broadway show, every moment is choreographed and staged and set. There's a lot to think about. And when I do my stuff solo, or when I work with Queen, it's very free.

It's very loose. There's no, like, choreography. There's no, I mean, every once in a while, I do choreography with my solo stuff, but I can kind of do what I want. You know what I mean? Like, there's no one directing me. I'm my own director in those situations. So going back into theater, it's just, there's more discipline involved. There's more of a focus on the whole cast telling a specific story and trying to create a specific moment. So it takes, like, a different kind of focus.

[22:10] Gordon Cox: And what did you find satisfying about the experience?

[22:14] Adam Lambert: I think the sense of accomplishment felt really good. I think it felt good to know that the audience was receiving the story, you know, and the role of the emcee is basically a narrator, where I get to break the fourth wall and address the audience directly a lot. So it's really the emcee's job to sort of show them this world and make sure they walk away understanding the themes of the show. And it's, you know, it's a brilliant show because the first act is really, you know, fun and naughty and kind of provocative and, you know, a little racy. And then you get into the second act where in the story in Germany, the Nazis are now present in Germany, and everything kind of goes dark, you know, it's really sad. So getting to kind of go from those two extremes every night in the show was really rewarding. Because it was almost therapeutic, you know, getting to be funny and stupid, and then flipping to completely miserable and sort of afraid. It was so cathartic.

[23:35] Gordon Cox: You mentioned Eddie Redmayne, who first played the role of the emcee, first in that production in London and then on Broadway. You were, in many ways, stepping into a role that had been sort of defined by him, or in a production that had been defined by him. What were the opportunities there for you to bring your own...

[23:56] Adam Lambert: Well, I was really grateful to the creative team because they said from the get-go, like, we want you to make this your own. We don't want you to do exactly what Eddie did. And that having that permission was really lovely. And Eddie was brilliant. I mean, he was, he's, as everybody knows, he's a fantastic actor. He's decorated. He's really, really experienced. But I could tell right away that his take on a lot of it was specific. And I kind of had my own ideas about the character. And I was supported. I think my take on the character, you know, being queer, walking into that space, you know, it is a very queer show. And it's always sort of been implied that the MC might be queer, but it's never said, you know, on the nose, literally.

But, you know, it's been defined by a lot of actors that have played the part. It's kind of expected by the audience. So I enjoyed that aspect of it. You know, I wore a lot of makeup. I really was like, trying to be as bizarre as I possibly could. You know, he's basically like a clown in the beginning. You know, he's really like, ridiculous, but I kind of played it almost like a raunchy stand-up comedian in a way in the beginning of the show. That was sort of my take on it. Like, he thinks he's hilarious. Half of his jokes are like eye roll dad jokes in a German accent. And I tried to play him really warmly. I think Eddie's take on it was to be creepy, which was really cool. My take on the role was, let me charm the hell out of the audience, get them really, really comfortable.

And then when we get to act two, it's like we pulled a rug out from under them so that they feel what it felt like for the people in Berlin at the time. And then my response to that rug being pulled was not that necessarily I was an evil force that was doing it to them, but that I was also getting the rug pulled out from under me, and I was heartbroken because of it and terrified. So in a way, I wanted the second act to sort of mirror the experience of a queer person in Germany at that time, what they would have maybe felt. And also, I'm Jewish as well. So bringing that sort of tradition and that sort of heritage as a reference point to it, I thought that and being queer, that cross section felt really, really personal.

[26:42] Gordon Cox: And now you're going to be playing Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood Bowl. What is exciting for you about that opportunity?

[26:47] Adam Lambert: This is literally at the top of my list of shows I've always wanted to be in.

[26:54] Gordon Cox: Okay. Always as a Judas? Did you always see yourself as a Judas?

[26:58] Adam Lambert: I always wanted to play Judas, yeah. I always thought that would be the role. I grew up listening to this musical. I've seen productions of it. I got to see Carly Anderson play the part with Ted Neely in a production back in, I think it was like 03 or something, before he passed away, and it blew my mind. I've seen a few productions that I just thought were brilliant. There's also a nostalgic thing. When I first started doing musicals, my father is a big music lover, and he's got a huge album collection from the 70s, and he's really into classic and progressive rock. He was never really fond of musical theater. It wasn't his thing. But we bonded over Jesus Christ Superstar because he had the original concept album from the early, early 70s, and he showed it to me, and we really connected on that.

I was like, I love Andrew Lloyd Webber, and he goes, well, I love Andrew Lloyd Webber, too, if you're listening to this. It was a cool shared love for the score. He's really excited to come see this. He's really thrilled. Yeah, Judas, I love Judas. I'm looking forward to the opportunity of playing a character that's super cynical. He's not getting swept up in the hype that Jesus is creating. He's questioning everything. He's critical. He's analytical. He's the one person that'll argue with Jesus. It reflects my shadow self. If I'm being honest with myself or with anybody else about what my faults are, I could name some of those faults, and I see those same faults in Judas. Me on a bad day, I have that tendency to disagree or to rebel or to not go with the status quo.

I'm very much like, well, everyone else is doing that. I don't like it. I see that part of him as a part of me. I also see him, he does have a heart. He's not a villain. He's worried. He's worried about Jesus. He's like, if you keep going down this path, something's going to go wrong. You're going to die. He's looking at it in a non-faith-based way. I don't think Judas believes that there's a higher power at work and fate is at work. I think Judas thinks, this is my friend Jesus. He's a great guy. He's helping people live happier lives. We're trying to help the poor and feed the poor and help liberate the people of Israel. I think he saw Jesus as a great leader, but I don't know if he understood Jesus' connection to God.

[30:24] Gordon Cox: And are you excited to work with Cynthia Erivo?

[30:27] Adam Lambert: Oh, my God. I'm beside myself. I think she's next level. Obviously, we all know this, but she's just, she's so talented. She's next level. Such an amazing musician and vocalist and great actress. To me, when I found out that she was playing Jesus, it was just so exciting because to me, the point of Jesus Christ Superstar is that it is supposed to provoke. It's supposed to challenge your idea of who Jesus was. It's supposed to humanize it. It's supposed to utilize, at the time in the 70s, utilizing rock and roll to tell the story. That was controversial. That was very controversial at the time. Not to mention their sort of way of telling the story, which doesn't necessarily match the scriptures.

It's like an interpretation of the story. And I think in 2025, I don't know if rock music is necessarily considered that edgy anymore. Controversial. So to me, casting somebody that is completely the opposite of what people usually think of as Jesus, that's really provocative. That's challenging for an audience. It's asking them to suspend their disbelief and to see Jesus in a new light, which is what I think the show always has aimed to do. And this casting, I think, will amplify that big time.

[32:02] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And in addition to all the things we've been talking about, you're also working on writing a new musical. Is that right? Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[32:11] Adam Lambert: It's still sort of under wraps, but yeah, I've been working on a musical. I wrote a lot of music for it during the pandemic. And it's still being developed. And it's definitely got a rock and roll spirit. It takes place in the 70s in New York, and it's glam. And that's kind of all I can say.

[32:35] Gordon Cox: Have you enjoyed the process of writing for a musical theater, like for a character, as opposed to for yourself?

[32:42] Adam Lambert: Absolutely. Yeah, that was what was refreshing about it. It was almost easier. It was easier because I knew the story that I was trying to tell. It's based on a real person. So it's like a biographical thing. And it was almost easier to create the music because I already knew what the intention was for each story beat. As opposed to in pop music, you walk into a session and you start talking with writers and you're kind of like, what should we write about? You know what I mean? It's a little more organic in a writing session for popular music. And I think now also having done Cabaret, that informs my work on it. I'm like, oh yeah, now I remember being an actor in a show and what's needed. And what's needed in a script and a song to sort of connect with the audience and tell the story.

[33:39] Gordon Cox: Is there a timeline that you have in mind for this project yet?

[33:42] Adam Lambert: No. Putting a timeline on it would just create disappointment. I think it's one of those things where when it's ready, it's ready. And what else is coming up for you that we should know about?

[33:59] Adam Lambert: I've been in the studio for the last month working on solo music. I'm inspired. I'm in a new chapter in my life. I recently moved to New York, which is really exciting. It feels like a new start, a new culture there. And meeting new people and having new experiences and I'm writing about it. I'm still sort of in the early phases of whatever this next musical chapter is going to be for me and kind of experimenting a little bit and trying to figure out exactly how I want it to sound and what I want to talk about. But the last month has been really exciting. I've been doing a lot of sessions, so I have a lot of new ideas now. Well, we will look forward to that album when it materializes. And in the meantime, we can catch you in Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood Bowl.

[35:01] Adam Lambert: Yeah, I'm so excited. Well, thanks so much for chatting with me, Adam. It was great to talk to you.

[35:06] Gordon Cox: Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. That was Adam Lambert, who you can catch as Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood Bowl, August 1st through 3rd.