This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's theater podcast, your backstage pass to revealing conversations with stars, creators, and industry leaders on Broadway, off-Broadway, and beyond. I'm Gordon Cox. On this episode of Stagecraft, I'm talking to the playwright, screenwriter, and director, Leslye Headland. As a playwright, Headland is known for the Seven Deadly Plays, her cycle of seven plays, with one each for each of the seven deadly sins. New York audiences got their first look at that cycle back in 2010 with the play Bachelorette, which became a movie in 2012 starring Kirsten Dunst and directed by Headland. Since then, she wrote and directed the movie Sleeping with Other People, and has also done a lot of work in TV.

She's one of the co-creators of Russian Doll, the Netflix series starring Natasha Leone stuck in a time loop, and she's the creator of the recent Star Wars series The Acolyte. But throughout all her work on screen, she was also continuing to write the Seven Deadly Plays, with shows including Assistance, Surfer Girl, and Reverb. Earlier this season, the final play of the cycle, Cult of Love, became Headland's Broadway debut, with a starry production starring Shailene Woodley, Zachary Quinto, Mare Winningham, and more. Now Headland is in the virtual studio with me for a wide-ranging conversation that touches on everyone from Bell Hooks to John Cassavetes to Star Wars novelist Timothy Zahn, as we talk about sins, Star Wars, the mindfuck of motherhood, and more. Here's Leslye.

[1:32] Leslye Headland: Hello, Leslye. Thanks for joining me.

[1:34] Leslye Headland: Oh, thanks for having me.

[1:36] Gordon Cox: Yeah. So, Cult of Love is the seventh of a series of plays that revolve around the Seven Deadly Sins, and it was the last of these plays that you wrote, or at least to be produced. I'm not sure what the timing was. And it premiered in LA back in 2018. Is that what it was? And now, in 2025, it's the play that is your Broadway debut. Does it feel like a culmination for you, with both those things sort of colliding at the same time?

[2:01] Leslye Headland: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. The series was such a gift, if that makes sense. It was just something that came to me. It could be, if you wanted to say, God or divine intervention. I just thought, I wrote one play, and I was very frustrated that I couldn't write another one. And then I had this moment where I felt like it's part of something bigger. And then it hit me that the first play was exploring what we used to call back in the day, fuck buddies. This was 2006, before it was very en vogue, and basically the only thing that the kids do now. And so I thought, oh, well, that would be a great lust. And Bachelorette, which was my debut in New York, that eventually became my directorial debut, the film, was gluttony.

Again, it's like these things kind of hit me, and they do feel very spiritual. I remember each moment. With Bachelorette, I was in traffic in LA, and I thought, female Hurley Burley. And I was like, why hasn't anyone done that? And then Assistance was Adam Bach's play, The Thugs.

[3:41] Gordon Cox: Yeah.

[3:42] Leslye Headland: Watching that, where it was sort of this, like, the boss never came on stage. Like, it was talking about this, there was this violence in the office culture. Sloth was really taking from that Adam rap, Neil LaBute tradition of just one person talking, and sort of based in the Medea Redux, and Rex, and all that stuff. And then Accidental Blonde was a little bit more a precursor to Cult of Love, in terms of overlapping dialogue. In that show, it was very orchestrated. And in this show, I was going for something more realistic or hyper-realism. But yeah, so that...

[4:37] Gordon Cox: And we're going to talk about more on topics that you have alluded to already. But before we get into that, what did you think to yourself, oh, my next play is going to be about greed, for instance? And then, was there an order to them? What was the benefits for you, in terms of helping you craft stories and in creating this work?

[5:04] Leslye Headland: It's a good question. It's once I committed myself to this project... Oh, and by the way, when I started it, there was like that Sufjan Stevens thing, where he was going to do an album for every 50, like, for every state. Of course, it was never going to happen. But you know, the idea of creating a series based on something. So, I forgot to say that when you asked me the question before. So, it was this culmination of like, I knew I was headed toward Pride. And it was kind of scaring me. I did them in order of... What is it? Dante's Inferno. So, I did them in that order. So, like, I knew Gluttony was coming next. I knew, you know, Greed was next. Yeah. So, what would happen is it would be in my head. And honestly, it felt like the sort of Damocles, like of just like, oh, my God, like, what am I going to write about? Like, what? And so, these little pieces of inspiration were so... Yeah, I'm just so grateful to the universe for them.

[6:14] Gordon Cox: In what ways does Broadway feel meaningful to you? Was that something that was always in your...?

[6:19] Leslye Headland: Oh, this is my dream as a little girl. I mean, like, this is beyond... I just never thought... It's like, I knew it was going to happen. And I never thought it was going to happen. Just that dichotomy, if that makes sense. I always felt like I wanted to do it and have that experience and all the beautiful aspects of it and the achievement of it, for sure. The recognition of the work. And just the fact that it's the last play, it just feels so, of course, you know, like, of course, it's been, oh, my gosh, it's been like, 15 years or longer that this has been, you know, my guiding or my guide toward playwriting. You know, I don't feel that way in film and television at all. Like, I just feel like playwriting, it was, I want to continue this. I want to figure out how to complete this cycle, this series, even if it takes me 15 years, you know?

[7:42] Gordon Cox: What do you... What did you learn at the end of this process? What do you consider the sort of biggest takeaways from working in this style and then going all the way through it, not doing the Sufjan Stevens thing of thinking otherwise, you know, thinking you'll do something else after a while?

[8:05] Leslye Headland: Well, there were a lot of things, you know. I tried to really come at the sins in an unconventional way, if that makes sense. Like, trying, you know, gluttony is not people eating cake, you know? Gluttony is these skinny, you know, just obsessed with their hyper femininity, femininity, femininity. Sorry.

[8:33] Gordon Cox: It's a tough one. Yeah.

[8:36] Leslye Headland: I'm a writer for a living. I don't have to say things out loud ever. But then also, like, you know, of course, the drug use and the overuse of the drug use. And, you know, even the title Bachelorette is this, there's no term for women like that. There's a, you know, who are chasing the dragon, so to speak, you know? Assistance was sort of this, it was like this amorphous job. I mean, being an assistant is just, there is this promise of something more, and this carrot, but it's just, there's a reason it was spelled with the A-N-C-E, you know? Like, it's assistance, like, what is that, you know? And, you know, it, so I was always trying to figure out what's some sort of modern spin on wrath, you know, like on envy, as opposed to sort of adhering it to some sort of classic old world version of what we'd already seen.

So with Cult of Love, like, there were a lot of things that inspired it, but something that I realized as I was writing it is, of course, there's the term pride you could utilize for the lesbians in the play, you know, gay pride, but also a pride of lions, you know, like this group of animals, really, you know, that are clawing for the top spot of who is going to manage and control this family. And of course, the revelation, I don't think this is spoiling anything at the end that, you know, this is no longer a family, it's something else. And the cultish aspects of being unable to extricate yourself from it is, like, that's a better word for it, is cult, as opposed to family.

[10:54] Gordon Cox: Yeah, yeah. What were some of the specific inspirations? What was the moment for you that you recall this, the show coming to you?

[10:59] Leslye Headland: The big moment was Trump being elected the first time. There were two things about the election that I thought really inspired this idea of kind of embracing the family drama, which is when Trump was elected in 2016, or, you know, the liberal side of things really felt like this is impossible, like that there's just this is inconceivable that it's going to happen. And then it did. And then seeing the groundswell of support that this guy had, once it sunk in that this man was, this game show host was elected to the highest office in the land. And so my thought was, I don't know why we're pretending to be the same country anymore. And then that led me to the next thought, which was, why are we pretending to be a family anymore?

Like, what is the feeling of being compelled to this theater of the absurd, that is clearly so divisive, and yet we and that's where the massive conflict comes from is that we're both fight, you know, each side is fighting for ownership, you know, I guess, in a way, and that to me feels like, you know, family usurpment, you know, all the way back to Greek tragedy, you know, like, so that was, that was a big one.

[12:46] Leslye Headland: And then in seeing in terms of like the aftermath of it, and seeing the way that people were attacking each other, specifically online, that really, we went straight to massive conflict, and ugly conflict, that I wanted, it sort of opened up pride for me, where I thought, you know, I would love to make a show, if we're successful, a story that judges judgment, that says, sure, you can, you know, sit in your pride and judge someone. But even that, you know, that particular quote, sin is getting you nowhere. It's just, it's, and that to me is the definition of sin. It's not...

[13:32] Leslye Headland: It's not that you're doing something bad. It's that you're going nowhere. You're just going nowhere. If you have envy, if you're constantly comparing yourself to another person, you're going nowhere. Where's your self-development? In Reverb, my play about wrath, it was the generational violence of that and being unable to stop it. Having feeling the pressure to stop it, but ultimately feeling, again, you're going nowhere unless you get massive amounts of help. Sorry, of help. Again, I'm a writer. I don't have to talk to people usually. When you talked about your inspirations, and a big part of it coming from Trump getting elected the first time around, it must be quite affecting for you. What is it like for you to watch that story play out in sort of similar circumstances, sort of the second time around on Broadway?

[14:34] Leslye Headland: Well, yeah, I think it's interesting because the audience is... I think this time around... Again, it's a New York audience, let's just be honest. They have a particular reaction to certain moments in the play. I don't even know. Honestly, to answer your question, I'm not even sure I had thought about it in terms of that, because we were in rehearsal by the time that the election happened. In a way, it felt like we were going to... It was like the snowball of just going toward the end of this particular... I didn't change anything once that election happened. I just thought to myself, a New York audience is going to have a different reaction to this than if their girl had won. It's just going to be... Yeah, it's going to be a little bit more about judgment and judging judgment, as opposed to a victory lap. I'll have more with Leslye right after this break.

[15:51] Gordon Cox: And now, back to my conversation with the writer, Leslye Headland. You mentioned the challenge of writing overlapping voices, and that was actually one of the things that struck me about the show, is that how much of that stage time is a fairly giant group of people. People keep adding. It's one big group scene for quite a lot of that play, and that seems like a challenge to orchestrate those voices for your director, Tripp Coleman, of course, but also for you as a writer, to orchestrate where the focus goes and who gets a voice when. Can you tell me a little bit about what you wanted to work on with this?

[16:31] Leslye Headland: It took a long time. 2016 to now is eight years. Of course, I'm not writing it consistently every day for eight years, but definitely coming back to it for readings, for workshops, the I Am Her production in Los Angeles, the Berkeley production this time last year. It just continued to develop and ultimately culminated in a script that I couldn't be more happy with. There's nothing in the play that I think, oh, I didn't get there, because I had worked so long on it. The overlapping dialogue, there were two inspirations for that. Again, really clear moments. There was a scene in Claire Barron's You Got Older, where it's the family in the hospital with Reed. I think it's Reed who plays the father.

I think it's four kids. It was much more, I would say, realistic, minus a hyper realism. That's part of the second thing. But when I saw that, I was blown away. I thought, my God, so much of the story and the heartbreak of that show works, because you see a family unable to communicate. Yet, they're in the place of having a sick father, and they're all in the same despair, but they're all speaking a different language and different cadences. That was a huge inspiration for me. Again, like The Thugs, where I was like, oh, God, that's the way in. That's how you do that. It was just one scene in her show. I thought, let's try to do that the whole play. Let's try to do that for 90 minutes. Then the other thing was cracking open the musical aspects of the show.

Once the music started to come to me, and that was going to be a major part of the construction of the script, the dialogue went from the attempt to overlap realistically to the attempt of overlapping like a piece of music. Yeah.

[19:06] Leslye Headland: And it's set during the Christmas season. It was on Broadway, is on Broadway. I mean, you could not. It's such a gift. It's just like, oh, thank you, God. Thank you, thank you. Why was Christmas? Tell me about how Christmas factored into the storytelling of that. Was it just because that is the reason that most families get together every year?

[19:31] Leslye Headland: Certainly. Yeah, there is. I mean, how many times have you talked to someone who Christmas is coming up and they go, oh, I'm dreading being with my family. I mean, they're the worst. And I always think, but you're going. If they were really the worst, and I mean, again, they are, but what's compelling you to go home? If you don't want to go, what's stopping you from saying, I can't make it? And I think there's a myriad different reasons why people make that decision. But it is interesting that there's something that people are trying to get back to, in some ways, like they're trying to tap into something, whether it's their childhood or their idea of it. And one of the reasons that it, you know, like, it's not Thanksgiving, you know, it's Christmas.

So it was, I think there's something very special about Christmas. And I think it's, there's just this intoxicating kind of pull of Christmas. And I think that I always said in rehearsal, and whenever I was working on the play, like every cult starts with a good idea. You know, like, even if it's a lie, like, even if you're Jim Jones, like, you're still spouting something that people are like, Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like he was doing protests about integration of, you know, stores and restaurants and, you know, sit-ins and all of that stuff, you know, before, many years later, where he's cracked out on drugs, and people are working in the jungle, you know, just exhausted, no food, listening to his voice 24 seven, you know, 24 seven.

But it did not start that way. Like no one would sign up for where they ended up, you know, it just, it was, and Christmas, I think, is like a beautiful idea. You know, like, family is a beautiful idea, you know, but there's a reality to it that everyone kind of ignores until it's too late, until you're completely programmed by your, you know, whoever the patriarch or matriarch, not necessarily even parents, but like, whoever's in charge, whoever's, you know, whoever you're stepping on eggshell, you know, walking on eggshells for, like whoever you just can't fucking stand, you know, you're stuck in a pattern that has emerged somehow from childhood to adulthood. And then the final thing was, it's Christ's, it's the celebration of Christ's birthday.

Obviously, Christ was not born on Christmas, it's the winter solstice and Christianity was like, good time to say Jesus was born, you know, like, so to me, it felt fitting that at the end of this, at the end of this series to end it on Jesus's birthday, it just felt, it felt right.

[22:48] Leslye Headland: And now it's your Christmas play. Now, if a theater is tired of doing a Christmas carol, they can do Cult of Love, right? It's a perennial, like, yeah, it's really, listen, I'm really, really happy about that. I'm happy the day you is during Christmas, like, it's so, it makes me really happy. Yeah.

[23:06] Gordon Cox: As you've mentioned, you've been working steadily in TV and film all throughout the writing of these plays. How do you feel like your theater writing and your film and TV writing have influenced each other over this process?

[23:21] Leslye Headland: Um, I think that the character work that I did early on in plays really lended itself to differentiating my writing from other people's writing. I find that the characters are in film and TV are always, you know, the way in. Russian Doll absolutely started with a character, um, for sure. More than, more than the conceit of the, of the, um, you know, the time.

[23:45] Gordon Cox: Oh, yeah.

[23:46] Leslye Headland: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. If I'm remembering correctly, at least that was the way that I saw it, you know, like was it, it felt, um, I mean, maybe a better way to put it as they went hand in hand, but the part that really kept me, uh, you know, that was the North star was that character. And so how do you, you know, the genre is just the thing that elevates that. So I think, you know, in, in plays really, that's kind of what's driving you. I mean, you know, I don't want to dissuade people from seeing Cult of Love, but it's, it's pretty plotless. Like there isn't really, there really isn't like a beginning, middle and end to that. It's all about the development of the characters. And, um, the, you know, I heard that this is like a Cassavetes quote that has like guided me through every single thing that I've ever done is that he was like, I love to write about people with problems that are overtaken by other problems, um, rather than, and I think sometimes I have noticed that there is some, that there is some criticism that I, you know, will receive based on, you know, uh, working within a genre kind of, you know, with, with, you know, um, romantic comedy, you know, well, we know what happens at a romantic, you know, this is, you know, it, um, or, or even, you know, Cult of Love.

I mean, I don't read the reviews specifically for theater. I don't read the reviews. Um, cause it's too heartbreaking, you know, but, but when I was, you know, working on it and try to get it done, you know, it was family drama. We've seen a million family dramas. Like it, it, it feels like the genre is kind of strike against some of these stories. Um, and I don't know. I, I, to me, that's the whole, that's what I've always been attracted to. Um, and like I said, there were all those, those, um, inspirations for each sin, you know, it's like the genres were just, oh yeah, there's another thing that's like this. And, um, I don't think it's my job to create a new genre, you know, like, uh, I think the only person that's really done that is Christopher Guest.

Like, it's just like, you know, like Spinal Tap was like, and this is completely different, you know, you, you, people were like mind blown, you know, like, but you know, there, I don't know. It just, it never seemed to me like something I was interested in. So they, they kind of work hand in hand. Like the plays have this con, you know, I don't want to say conventional, but this, you know, like genre inspiration and it would be the same with, you know, uh, Star Wars or, uh, Groundhog Day or, you know, like, um, and yeah, I just don't, it's something that I love. And then the difference.

[27:04] Leslye Headland: David Mamet quote, which is, in plays, the audience is wondering what's happening now. And in film and TV, the audience is wondering what's going to happen next. The experience of watching them are completely different things. So, I think that's another problem with genre and film and TV is that a good percentage of the audience is going like, well, I already know. I already know what's going to happen. I already know that they're going to end up together. So, why am I watching? And everything, everywhere, all at once, I would say also created a genre. It's very you and far between, in my opinion. So, the most recent TV show we saw from you was in the Star Wars world. You mentioned Star Wars: The Acolyte. Do you enjoy that particular, or I guess the question is, what did the genre of that sort of space fantasy of Star Wars allow you to explore that you might not have been able to explore in other genres?

[28:20] Leslye Headland: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's funny because I thought, I didn't even think of it as like, I'll probably get dragged for this, but I didn't even really think of it as like space opera. I thought of it as Star Wars. I thought of it as like the thing that we all are familiar with. Because that's my experience of Star Wars. When I watched Star Wars, as a young girl, and absolutely fell in love with it, and then started reading the Timothy Zahn novels, and writing fan fiction about Star Wars, the characters in that, like Jason and Jade, these other characters that were being introduced in Legends. To me, it was not like, this is Dune. It's just, this is Star Wars. And so, getting to work in that, quote, genre was incredible.

It was my dream. And I like being on Broadway. And the fact that they both happened in the same year, I feel like this is, again, I'm so blessed. I just feel like, thank you, universe. It's so beautiful what you've allowed me to be part of. Yeah. I was very sad to hear that there is no second season forthcoming of The Acolyte, because I was excited to see what happens next, as you say.

[29:53] Gordon Cox: Oh, thank you for watching. Did you watch it?

[29:56] Leslye Headland: I absolutely did.

[29:58] Gordon Cox: Oh, thank you. And one of the things that I found delightful about that show is I've recognized so many of the names in the writers room. I just remember talking to Jocelyn Bia when she was nominated for a Tony. And I said, what are you doing next? And she said, oh, I'm working on The Acolyte. And I was like, I'm sorry, you know what? And it's, that delighted me. And so it feels like, I was like, oh, there are people I like working on this show. I have to watch this.

[30:19] Leslye Headland: No, it was a great, great room and just full of people whose coattails I'm just, you know, I just wanted to ride, you know, into.

[30:28] Gordon Cox: Yeah. What was your experience of the reaction to the show? Because it had fans, you know, like every Star Wars property, it had the people who loved it and the people who didn't.

[30:35] Leslye Headland: Yeah, it was like, it was interesting, because, you know, especially that particular group that, you know, you're probably, you know, referencing is essentially like a cottage industry that I was a major part of for many years. Like, I know who all those guys are. I watched all their videos, like, I know that they're going through every scene and saying, this is stupid, this is stupid, this is stupid, because they did it with Rian Johnson. They did it with, I don't know, Obi-Wan, you know, like, there's an expectation with their audience, right, that they're going to go through everything. And, you know, it's not that they dislike everything. I think there was a really big acceptance of Andor in that audience.

But so I'm very familiar with it. You know, it really took me a while to sort of extricate myself from the, you know, it's like the, I think it's bell hooks is like, you know, patriarchy has no gender. You know, it's like, you can ascribe to that particular type of language. And not be, you know, just, you know, be a middle aged lesbian and still, you know, be consuming that. But what's interesting, and what I thought about while all of that was going down is that I have this theory, at some point, the people that create content about Star Wars will become essentially more influential than Star Wars. And I feel like that's what started to, you know, what really happened to, you know, or was starting to happen with my show, there was this, you know, I just got this feedback and these feelings, you know, from everybody, like both on the internet, and then the people that employed me of just, oh, this is, you know, this is more influential.

I mean, Elon Musk tweeting, you know, Kathleen Kennedy is the Death Star, whatever he tweeted, like, you know, that becomes more of a consumed opinion, and a consumed piece of media than anyone actually watching the show. So that's sort of what I learned, watching it, you know, watching it sort of go down, you know, and then there were people who loved it. You know, I've had people come to Cult of Love who are standing out there with, I'm so upset it got canceled. I love Star Wars. I love this, like, you know, so it's not everybody. It's just, there is a faction of people. And I can say that from personal experience, because I ascribe to it. And so what's next for you on screen?

[33:38] Leslye Headland: Well, I have an overall deal with 20th. So I am developing a bunch of projects with them and working on a TV show that I probably am not supposed to talk about, but definitely writing, you know, like after the show opened, I definitely went right back into, you know, my TV and film work. I would love to make another film. That would definitely be something I'd love to do.

[34:13] Gordon Cox: Both write and direct again?

[34:16] Leslye Headland: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know. Yeah, I would love to do that if I had the opportunity to.

[34:23] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And so if you had the Seven Deadly Sins that were sort of your guiding structure for your stage writing, what's guiding you now? What's next for you on stage?

[34:33] Leslye Headland: Oh, that's a good question. Well, I became a mom.

[34:38] Gordon Cox: Okay.

[34:39] Leslye Headland: Yeah. So that is a mindfuck. It just is. I mean, I remember my wife and I were sitting, it was before she was walking, you know, we just were watching her crawl around and like play with her things. And my wife and I were sitting on the couch looking at her. And Rebecca, my wife turned to me and said, we're her moms. Like, think about how fucked up your relationship is with your mom. Like, there's just no way around being someone's mom, you know. So I do think it's something that's in my head a lot. And, you know, twisting and turning and how desperately in love with her I am, you know, like, I mean, I just, I could go on and on about that. So definitely that was something that popped up, has been popping up for me.

[35:39] Gordon Cox: Yeah. All right. Well, do you, is it your intention to keep writing for the stage as you're doing, as you're continuing to work in film and TV? Is that a thing that you think is always going to be an important part of your work?

[35:53] Leslye Headland: Absolutely. Absolutely. I felt like when we started rehearsals, well, we had this like week-long like workshop, I guess you'd call it, with the cast in September. And when that, when we had that, I was like, oof, I've been gone too long. I've been gone too long. This is, I can't let this amount of time go by again before doing a play. It's just my first love. I just, I adore it. I adore how long I get to work on a play. I get to rewrite so much. I get to, and you know, I'm very actor-centric. Watching actors perform the words makes me realize what a bad writer I am. Because I'm like, oh, you can't say this. Like, it's a great, it's a great idea, but you cannot say this. Being married to an actor is really helpful with that.

Because she'll call me out on it. She's like, what is this? Nobody talks this way. But with film and TV, you don't have the opportunity to do that. I mean, you might have a read through, like one read through or something, but you definitely don't have the type of deep work where I can experientially, you know, digest the play as something that is a living, breathing thing. I mean, it's funny because Tripp Coleman, you know, this is my-

[37:26] Gordon Cox: The director, yeah. Who you've worked with a number of times.

[37:31] Leslye Headland: The director, yeah. This is just like, everybody, you know, this is our fourth time working together. And, you know, we have a couple of quirks, the two of us of like, you know, and one of them is that I am just so rewrite happy. You know, like, you know, something, he's like, Oh, I don't think this is working. I'm like, Oh, I'll rewrite it. Like, let's let me take a look at it. And he's like, No, just let me work on it. And then the other thing with Tripp is that he knows that I need an emotional support human. Yeah, he knows that part of working with me is going to be that I have, you know, that, you know, I'm an inside out human. I'm just so vulnerable and knee jerky. And I love what I do.

I love the people I get to do it with, no matter the medium. But it's, I can get really overwhelmed and I can get really, really sad and really hyper. I just swing back and forth. Not all the time, but, you know, like, you know, in moments, you know, like, as we start previews, like, that's a, you know, like, you know, first, first few, like, days of rehearsal, you know, like, let me fix this before we start, like, before we get, you know, he's like, Can you relax? Like, let's just work. Let's just work on the play.

[39:31] Gordon Cox: That sounds like just being a playwright to me, but I think that's not just you. But I could, I could be wrong about that. My friends, like, like Jocelyn and Annie, and, you know, they just seem so cool that I assume, but you know, you're right. Like, actually, I've never been in a, in a rehearsal room with them. So you never know. You never know what's going on.

[39:44] Leslye Headland: Well, it sounds like you're in the playwriting game for the long haul. So we will look forward to seeing what comes next for you soon, whether it's about motherhood or otherwise.

[39:55] Gordon Cox: Thank you. Thanks so much, Leslye. It was really great to talk to you.

[39:59] Leslye Headland: Oh, it's it was my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

[40:03] Gordon Cox: That was Leslye Headland, whose play Cult of Love is now on Broadway through February 2nd. If you enjoyed this conversation here on Stagecraft, help us out. We'd so appreciate it if you would take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast app. It really does help. Or tell a friend about Stagecraft. Find past episodes and subscribe at all the places you get your pods, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and on the Broadway Podcast Network, a great place to find more theater for your ears. Until next episode, find me on Instagram and X at Gordon B. Cox. You can also check out my newsletter about international theater. It's called JQEES and it's at GordonCox.Substack.com. Thanks for listening and see you at the theater.