This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Eli Tokash: Hello everyone and welcome to episode 152 of Take A Bow. I'm your host Eli Tokash and this week we have a very very exciting episode for you folks this week. We have the current star of the North American tour of Moulin Rouge in John Cardoza coming on the podcast this week. Very exciting stuff. We had a wonderful conversation. We talked about his journey through the industry. We talk about stories of how relatable they are to actors and performers of any type of experience whether you're just starting out or you have done multiple Broadway shows. It's really really great conversations today that he shares with us and he gives us some really special insight that we've never gotten really here about tour life on the podcast as he's currently in the middle of it.

He runs us through all of that stuff and it's so cool. If you don't know, John Cardoza, like I mentioned, is currently on the national tour of Moulin Rouge. He's playing Christian, the lead role, and he's also been in Jagged Little Pill. He was seen in The Karate Kid and The Notebook in their out-of-town pre-Broadway tryouts. Very exciting stuff. I would say he's a name that we all need to look out for in the foreseeable future because he is literally, it seems like he's on every press release that comes out lately. He's just such a talent and I'm just thrilled to get him on the podcast today and get to know a little bit about his journey and all the things. Before we get over to that though and before we listen to the interview and all the things, we got to talk about some Broadway news, shall we?

There's a lot been going on this week and a lot going on, I say, because I've seen a lot of shows this week, so very exciting stuff about that. But before I say anything, I want to shout out and extend a happy opening night to New York, New York, the sign in Sydney Burstein's window, and Goodnight Oscar. Oh, and Prima Fasci also had an opening night. So lots of openings happening this week. Four days in, four openings, and you know what? That wraps up the 2022-23 season. Unfortunately, with all those opening nights, I wasn't able to get on any of the carpets this week. Very upset about that. But you win some, you lose some, and hopefully we'll be back and hopefully you all are enjoying the red carpet content that we are getting.

So they're always fun and all the support just kind of depends on if I go to more. So definitely go check out those YouTube videos and stuff like that because it's very, very helpful for these teams to see whose content is working and utilizing the best possible outlets that they can get to cover that opening night. It's a big night for the show. So definitely go check those out. We have Camelot that was most recent, which I just saw this weekend. So I'll get into that now. Camelot was the best show I've seen this week. I saw three shows. I saw Camelot, Play That Goes Wrong for like the 11th time, and New York, New York. Camelot was fantastic. Camelot is Broadway. Camelot is theater. Camelot is everything that defines what theater is.

And it was brilliant. And of course it was done by Bartlett Chur. Of course it was over at Lincoln Center. Everyone needs to go see this show. Philippa Soo puts on a masterclass performance. Taylor Trench, take about family member, hilarious icon. We love him. Well, I guess they're all take about family members now, but everyone is just so great. Jordan Donica and Andrew Burnap, they're ridiculous as Arthur and Lancelot. I mean, come on. Their performances are just absurd. And it really focuses on the story between the love triangle type of thing. And then of course you have Taylor Trench who plays King Arthur's son, who really comes in and steals act two. And it's just brilliant what they do with the show.

And it's this re-imagined version, but I don't understand what the big deal is. If you saw the reviews, they didn't get the greatest reviews. And I actually thought it was brilliant. And I didn't feel like it needed the magic or whatever it is that they really took out that reviewers were not happy about. But I thought all of it was fantastic and the changes, I couldn't see it any other way. So this was brilliant. So congrats to everyone involved there. And I'm sure it's going to be a very long run at the Lincoln Center. So I just fell in love with the show. The play that goes wrong is hilarious as always. I don't really need to stay on this for too long. I'm excited to say that I did get to see take about family member recently, Trevor Braun, who is currently in the play that goes wrong and had a great time, great night of laughs and great night of theater, real theater of what really happens.

This is just audiences can see that stuff is actually going wrong, but this is just the daily life of a performer, of live theater. And it's such a classic and love it. And I'm actually hopefully going to go see Peter Pan goes wrong with Neil Patrick Harris this weekend. So very excited for that as well. New York, New York. I saw New York, New York. You know what? I liked it. I didn't love the show. I don't know if I had too high expectations or not, but I thought the music was great. And I thought the set was great. I thought Anna Uzalie was fantastic. She was phenomenal. Colin Ryan did a great job as well. The cast is amazing. I mean, it's really just like, the story just really isn't there for me.

I thought the set was beautiful. And the moments that it had, like it did have moments and then it had moments where it was just like, Hmm, this is interesting. And like, Hmm, why didn't they cut this song? Honestly, I saw it literally last night, which is the day before their opening night, which is today, Wednesday, April 26. But yesterday, if you're listening to this on Thursday, the day that this episode comes out, and honestly, I feel like you could have used another week or two of previews and refining and fine tuning. I thought it was really cool, though. One thing I'll mention, Colin Ryan, like literally stopped the show in a few scenes, actually, because he was able to play like seven instruments at like in the same song.

It was wild. I mean, not obviously not all at once, but he was just playing everything he picked up. It was quite special. And all of them do it. There's violinist and trumpets and all the things, cellist. It's quite special what they do and how they do that number. It's really, really cool. And then they have this wonderful tap dancing number in Act One. So like there are some really, really good pieces there. And it was a fun show. But if you're looking for a show for a fulfilling story and to go on this special journey and all that, this, I don't feel, is the one for that. But needless to say, I did like the show. I would go see it again. I don't know. I just felt like there was so much more that they could have done with it and there was so much more potential that a week or two really would have helped that and really would have solidified it for like one of the best new shows of the season.

But I don't see it winning like the Tony Award for Best New Show. And that's not a knock on it. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but just my thoughts. There you go. I've learned to be a little bit more, you know, straight on here. So we're figuring that out. Anyways, sorry, moving on. Lea Michele and Miles Frost are announcing the nominees for the Tony Awards next Tuesday, May 2nd, which is very exciting. So the next time I talk to you guys, actually, we're going to know who is nominated this season and what shows are nominated and what performers and all things, which is very exciting. And I, you know, I love this time of year with the Tony Awards and all the things. So this is going to be a really special thing.

I think it's going to be a lot of fun. I think Lea Michele and Miles Frost announcing the nominees is going to be really cool. They've kind of made it a little bit more of a show recently. So I'm liking that for Broadway. It's a good little touch. And yeah, I think Miles Frost, I mean, my king, I can't wait. He just needs to get back on Broadway. I mean, he's been off Broadway for maybe two weeks and I'm just like, tell me what your next show is, please. Anyways, love that. And we can't wait to see what is nominated for this year. And all these shows obviously work so hard and all of them deserve it, but we'll see which ones are getting it. And then of course, we'll do a little Tony prediction thing closer to the Tony Awards.

So yeah, that's all the news I have for you folks this week. It was really just Lea Michele and Miles Frost and take you on my journey of my theater going experience this week, which you may have listened to and you may not have enjoyed it. So that's okay. And you can just move right along to the interview that we are about to share right now with John Cardoza, my new best friend. I'm obsessed with him, new fan of his, and he's so sweet. And I love talking to him and getting to hear all about his career and his journey and everything that he's gone to. He did this on a Wednesday, right before a show. So shout out to you, John, obviously, who is literally going from a podcast to a show. Did not need to do that, but so sweet.

And just can't thank you enough for your time and hopefully you all enjoy it. So without further ado, shout out to all you Atlanta people where he is now. And he says that he really enjoys staying in Atlanta with the run of the show. So shout out you guys and shout out for you for being a great audience and go check him out for the rest of his run in Atlanta. So without further ado, John Cardoza, curtain up.

[10:20] Eli Tokash: All right, this week's guest is another triple threat. You could say he's gonna be one of Broadway's leading men for quite some time. You may have seen him in Jagged Little Pill, Karate Kid, The Notebook, or currently as he travels the states as Christian in Moulin Rouge. So everyone, welcome to Take a Bow, John Cardoza. Did I say that right?

[10:42] John Cardoza: That was such a generous introduction. Thank you so much.

[10:47] John Cardoza: Yes, that is John Cardoza. That's it.

[10:50] Eli Tokash: Great. Oh my god. No, it's fantastic. I see you in all of like the every press release that comes out now. It's like, John Cardoza is starring as Daniel LaRusso. It's like, great. Oh my god. So exciting. And I'm sure it's such a whirlwind the past couple years.

[11:09] John Cardoza: Yeah, well, let's get into it. Let's start at the beginning, though. Talk to me about like, how we got here. Like, why are we performing? What got you interested in, you know, performing and telling stories and all that stuff?

[11:23] John Cardoza: I mean, I have been singing as long as I can remember. Not really like, not taking lessons or anything formal. But I just loved to sing around the house as a kid. I loved listening to music. My parents had me take piano lessons. So I sort of like, you know, discovered a little bit of an aptitude for music there. Sadly, I have not maintained those skills as well as I wish I could. However, I ended up becoming a figure skater for a very long time, a competitive figure skater. And so I found sort of like a passion for performing by way of that. And also like, the sort of body awareness is very similar to that of a dancer's sort of body awareness. And so those things kind of translated really well.

And when I was in middle school, I had been like, singing in like school, like chorus concerts and things like that. But I started doing, I started doing like the school shows, like the drama club and whatnot, when I was in middle school. And our music teacher's daughter was our choreographer. And her friend at the time was going to the Boston Conservatory for composition. He's a composer. And he came to see one of our shows. And we were talking afterwards. And I at the time had no idea that you could really do this in academic way and sort of in pursuit of like a career. And he was the one who was sort of like, hey, like, you should really think about doing this. Like you're in high school now.

And you can like, like, come visit me at the school and I'll show you around. And I did that. And he brought me to like a recital, there was a voice recital happening that day. And I was like, Oh my god, this is amazing. And there was just, I just remember watching.

[13:18] John Cardoza: Around the campus and there was just like music coming out of like every window, every doorway, every corridor. It was amazing. And the arts weren't really something that were like prioritized in my school district. It was definitely a very athletic heavy area and so that was sort of my first time being in an environment that was really all about the arts, which is amazing. And I was like, okay, so this is what I'm gonna do. And so my high school career sort of became about trying to figure out how to make that happen. And I got lucky and I ended up getting into the conservatory when I was a senior in high school and that's where I went to school. And after four years there, graduated and you know started working and here we are.

[14:07] Eli Tokash: This is wild. Where are you from? Where did you grow up?

[14:13] John Cardoza: I grew up about an hour south of Boston.

[14:21] Eli Tokash: Wow, okay. It was sounding a lot like how I grew up because I started ice hockey and all the things and like if you didn't play sports, you were a loser. And I was like, you know, I was athletic but I was a figure skater. It's not exactly like the cool thing to be doing as a high school boy. But if you're listening to this and you are a figure skater, pop up. Keep it up. You're like John Cardoza and Sierra Boggess, you know?

[14:48] John Cardoza: I see you at the rink sometimes. I've yet to say hello to her but I used to teach, when I first moved to the city, one of my first like survival jobs was teaching skating lessons in Long Island City. There's a rink over there and I remember seeing her several times and I was like, oh my god, someday I should say hi. I never did.

[15:04] Eli Tokash: Oh my god, I go there all the time. That's hilarious. City Ice Pavilion, is that how it's called?

[15:10] John Cardoza: Yes, that's the one. I used to teach there. That's sick. Oh my god. This is craziness. I love it. I love everything happening and wow.

[15:19] Eli Tokash: Okay, so it was like, I mean, it's pretty new, this whole like theater world, you kind of got really serious like going to college. I was a loomer for sure.

[15:33] John Cardoza: Yeah, which is wild and crazy to see, you know, the success in a short amount of time. It just goes to speak on how talented you are.

[15:38] John Cardoza: Oh, thank you. I will never forget, it was like my first day of school at the conservatory and I had this like, we had like a studio, a voice studio wide like lesson where every now and then like our voice studio would get together with our voice teacher and we would like sing songs in front of each other sort of like master class style and give feedback and whatnot. And I got up to do, because it was my turn and I was talking to my new voice teacher. I would never had a voice lesson before. I'd never had a voice lesson with him before. So I was like, he was like, so what's your cut? And I was like, this is so freaky. My what? And he was like, what section of the song are you gonna sing? And I was like, oh, I don't know. I thought I was gonna sing this song. And he was like, okay, great. He was like, well, where do you, like, what do you want to do with this and this and this? And I was like, and he just looked at me and said, how did you get here?

[16:35] Eli Tokash: That's hilarious. Good for you though, you know. Chin up, you know.

[16:42] John Cardoza: And that voice teacher, Dr. Thomas Gregg, him I will give a shout out to because I would not be able to sing if it wasn't for him. He taught me everything that I know. All of this. He's incredible. He's retired now, unfortunately, but I, he was...

[17:06] Eli Tokash: This is wild. Yeah, I love that. Shout out to you.

[17:09] John Cardoza: Yeah, you know, that's literally what happened in my first ever professional audition for the tour of Mary Poppins. And I, like, came in and I started singing this whole song. And they were like, do you think you can do it again? Just like condense it? And I was like, why would I do that? You've never heard about that before. I walked in in like black sweatpants, a Spider-Man t-shirt, you know, like I was such a dork. And like, it's hilarious. And, you know, we ended up booking. So it was fine. Like it worked out. And it's just crazy, you know, the things that happen and the things that are in this industry that nobody talks about, you know, what is that cut? There's so much to learn. Even your voice.

Like, I never actually had voice lessons until my voice changed. And now I'm learning that, like, oh, my voice is like a muscle. Like, you go to the gym and you work out. And it's like, you know, the same thing for your voice. And it has all these elements and all these layers and there's resonance. And it's like, nobody tells you that. Like, how am I supposed to know this stuff?

[18:05] John Cardoza: I used to say that. My parents would always be like, why do you want to take voice lessons? You know how to sing. And I was like, no, I can sing. That doesn't mean that I know how to sing. There's a huge difference. But, you know.

[18:17] Eli Tokash: Yeah. And I feel like it was like behind the ball, you know, because like you go into these rooms with all these wonderful people. And they're just like, oh, how did you not know that? Like, no one told you that? I'm like, sorry, no. But fascinating stuff. And I'm sure that you've had the same things. Crazy. I love that whole journey for you. And then here you go. And you make your Broadway debut in Jagged Little Pill, which is so fun. And you started at ART. So you're part of this developmental. So not only are you like performing on Broadway, but you're like opening a whole production on Broadway, which is like madness. So talk to me about that and kind of going from ART. Well, let's talk about ART first, I guess. And talk to me about like, you know, how does that whole thing work? You know, obviously there's hope for Broadway, but you're kind of mounting the stage for ART. What was that process kind of like for you?

[19:13] John Cardoza: So Jagged was not my first sort of like out-of-town like Broadway hopeful show. My first job out of college was a show called October Sky that did an out-of-town at the Old Globe. It's based on the 90s film with Jake Gyllenhaal and you know, the Rocket Boys. And so being just out of college and having this job where it was like, oh my gosh, like it's gonna go to Broadway and it has these commercial producers. And I was like amazed by the cast. I was understudying Kyle Selig. Shout out to Kyle Selig. Period. And I was like, wow, all these like... I was like, yeah, of course this is gonna go. This is great. But of course, Broadway is a business and an industry and there are so many factors and variables that go into, you know, which shows make it to a Broadway stage.

There's a lot of real estate involved and it's all... it's a lot of timing and luck. And so having worked on that and then done a subsequent lab in New York of that show, I was like, oh my gosh, like we're doing it. We're on the ride. And of course things sort of like stopped dead in its tracks as I'm sure we have yet to see that show on Broadway. And so that was sort of a crash course for me in sort of like setting expectations and appreciating the time that you have with the show wherever you are. And so when I got Jack and Little Pill, of course I took a look at the team and thought to myself, this has to go somewhere. I mean, it's Alanis Morissette and Diane Paulus and Tom Kitt and CeeDee Larber-Chigali and all these like incredible people.

I was like, I mean people would be so... like how could we pass that on that? So of course there was that aspect of it. There's also... there's no promise of continuing with the show. So having my experience from working on October Sky and then coming into this and knowing that, again, like all these variables at play, I was sort of like, okay, I'm just going to appreciate my time in Boston. Which was really, really fun for me because I'd never performed so close to home outside of college. And so it had been a few years out of college at that point. So I was like, yeah, this is gonna be so much fun. I understudied a role that I got to go on for in Boston, which was really, really fun. And yeah, that was just about enjoying the process.

And it was intense, and it was so, so educational. And yeah, I mean there's... that show ended up being, pandemic included, like almost five years of my life. So it's impossible to summarize the life lessons that are just jam-packed in there. But I met a lot of really, really wonderful people. We closed in July of, I think, 20... would have been 2018? Yeah, that would have been July of 2018. And it was about six, five or six months before I heard about the transfer and that I was moving with it. And we did another lab subsequently in New York. And then there was about seven more months before we actually transferred to Broadway. So there was a lot of time to be filled.

[22:31] Eli Tokash: Yeah, and you were with it that whole time, right?

[22:33] John Cardoza: Yeah.

[22:34] Eli Tokash: Crazy. What was it like to, you know, so I was in Pippin and Finding Everyone with Diane. And you know, her directing is just like, I don't know, I'm a sucker for her. I love her. Yeah, she's been on the show. And we talk about like the character development and just like everything that she does with her cast. It's just, it's pretty amazing. So like talk to me about like, with among, you know, the rest of the incredible creative team. And you know, you have Derek Klena and Catherine Gallagher and like, all these wonderful people, veterans leading the way. What was it like just to be in a room and kind of learn from them kind of fresh out of college? I mean, I know you did, you know, October Sky, but I don't know. What was that like?

[23:20] John Cardoza: Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting when you're in college and fresh out of college, this sort of idea of like, you want to just jump right into it. And you see these stories about people who are sort of like plucked from the masses, and they're all of a sudden like leading these Broadway shows, and it's amazing. But when I look back on like who I was in college, and the artists that I was in college, and where I am now, I just can't imagine myself at that stage leading a show. I think there's so much more to being right for a job than being right for a role, you know? I think that being right for the role is just one part of it. There's a whole job that is around that, that requires a lot of education.

And that's not really something that they teach you in school. That's not really something that you can learn other than by being in a room and watching somebody with experience do those things, and set the tone for a company. And I think that, I mean, Elizabeth Stanley, and Sean Krill, and Derek Klena, and Kathryn Gallagher, like you said, veterans, like watching them and learning from them not only as an actor, but as a professional, and as a company member, I think is also really valuable. And they just set a really, really lovely tone so much of the time. And yeah, I think like moving forward from that, like after a really long time of seeing that, and not only them, but like again, like I got to understudy, like my first job at a college was understudying Kyle Selig, who is such a lovely, lovely person to be around.

And again, was sort of our leading man in the company, and set the tone for our company in a really warm and welcoming way. And so from these people, I learned how to be the right person for the job, role aside, you know? Like if I'm right for the role, awesome, I'm gonna go in for it. I also want to make sure that I'm right for the job, and for the company, and for all of the things that come along with leading a show. And now I feel very ready to do that, and I'm still learning, and I'm still figuring it out, but I feel more ready than I ever was. And yeah, I mean like I said, like I look back on who I was in college, and I of course was thinking to myself, why am I not the person being plucked from the masses?

I think we've all had a moment at least once where we just see these stories, and we're like, ah, that would be so awesome. And like, I just am so grateful that that wasn't my journey, because now I feel so ready to do these jobs, and to be consistent, and sustainable, and really enjoy myself, and do the best work that I can do.

[26:37] John Cardoza: When you're in a room with like Derek and Catherine, just like the biggest goofballs in the world. And so like, kind of finding that balance and watching them and being like, oh, you know, like, there are moments that like, it's okay to be like human beings and people and like, complain or, you know, have a blast and you're slap happy and play and do whatever. And then there's time to, you know, work and focus and like, do your job because it is a job. And it's like easy to forget because we're just having so much fun. Yeah. And I mean, and I want to, because like, I mean, for some people, the Pluck from the Masses story, that is their story. And they have that sort of, they're sort of thrust into this crash course in becoming a working professional.

And some people can do that and have done that and done it really well. And this is what I say is not to take away from them. It's to just emphasize that there is so much more to leading a show than being right for the part. And so even those people who are Pluck from the Masses, oh my gosh, I mean, the transformation that they have to go through in such a short amount of time is amazing and remarkable. And so when we see that happen, know that the work that they're doing off stage is just as intense as the work that they're doing on stage, and they're doing it in real time. So like...

[27:55] Eli Tokash: For sure.

[27:56] John Cardoza: Like, I'll go to everyone. We're not really fans, you know, we're fans of everyone who worked, because it's a grind, and it's so much work. And it's like, we respect that, we notice that, we see that. And, you know, we all are supporting each other. It's interesting, because there's this like stigma of like competition. And it's like, no, like, we're all one big happy family rooting for each other. You know, everything happens for a reason. They're picked for this job, because they're right. Like, you know, something else, there's a million things that happen in a year's worth of time in this industry. So something may be right, and something may be right, and it's not your time yet. You know, like, it's crazy how this industry works. And it's so hard to like, learn that, because it's so like, cliché to say, and it's so unfortunate that you don't have control over it. But you know, like, that's the reality of like, what we signed up for.

[28:44] Eli Tokash: Oh, yeah. I mean, if there are like folks going through college who happen to listen to this, if there's one, I mean, I just get really used to cheering for your friends and the people around you and knowing and trusting your own talent and abilities and knowing that your time will come. And when that time comes, you're going to be so glad that you chose kindness the whole way.

[29:05] John Cardoza: Yes.

[29:06] Eli Tokash: You know, so get used to cheering for the people around you, because those people will cheer for you when your time comes.

[29:12] John Cardoza: Ah, that's honestly perfect. I love that so much. I gotta ask before, I mean, we can continue talking about Jagged, because I'm obsessed with Jagged Little Pill. The message of like, Jagged was like, it was something that touched me at a very, you know, important time, you know, for everyone, I think, just what was going on in the world. And you know, that's why we love theater and everything. But I've got to ask, before you like came into Jagged, were you an Alanis fan? Or did you learn it there?

[29:48] John Cardoza: I was like, Alanis adjacent fan. Because this was my thing with Alanis is that I knew so much more of her song catalog than I thought I did when I got the score. Yes. I was like, oh my gosh, she wrote this. She did this. She did like, there were so many songs that I was like, I like, there were songs that I already knew that I was like, how do I already know this? So there was and then also like, I mean, my sister was a huge Alanis fan. She was actually when I told my sister that I was like going in for it. She was like, I asked you for nothing. Please get this job. So she was a huge Alanis fan. And so I was sort of like Alanis adjacent. Like I knew music by way of my sister and the radio. And of course, because when her music was coming out, I was a kid.

And a lot of it was sort of like, I always say that her music is, is like art in its purest form, because it's so personal. And it like grows with you, like hearing it as a child, I heard this one thing hearing it again in high school. Every time it comes back to you, whether it's high school, college, young adult life, adult life, it's like it speaks to like a deeper, deeper layer of the human experience every time it comes back to you. So it grows with you. And it's amazing to that she was able to create something that is so expansive. Yeah. So I wasn't I was a fan. I didn't know I was a fan.

[31:20] Eli Tokash: And I think for like, a lot of people, you know, like, everyone was like, for me, at least I don't want to speak for a lot of people. But you know, when I saw the show, I like that was like the first time I like understood what those songs like actually meant. You know, like, because like you, I was like, an Alanis fan adjacent, you know, because of my family and radio and whatever. But like, and I loved the tunes, like, they're there, they stick in your head, you know, like, ironic, you can sing it 24 times a day, and not even realize like what you're saying. It's like one of those songs where it's just so melodically pleasant and unforgettable. And then seeing the show, it's like, oh my god, like, there is so much to every single three minutes that she wrote, you know, in her.

[32:14] John Cardoza: It's awesome. I mean, the music when you listen to it for the first time, like on the album proper. It's so wordy, and her syntax is really unique and iconic. Like, you know, when you're listening to Alanis. And so like, I feel like there's a lot of things that can be missed when you have young ears that have never heard this style for the first time. So putting it out of the context of this album and putting it on stage as it relates to these characters, you sort of just pick out words that you don't necessarily listen to on a first pass of the album.

[32:48] Eli Tokash: Yeah, that's true. Absolutely. And just the way that, you know, it all came together, and her beautiful repertoire. It was just, I loved that show so much. You guys did a fantastic job on it.

[33:01] John Cardoza: Yeah, of course. And it was been so fun to like that to be your Broadway debut, you know, you can have that.

[33:07] John Cardoza: It was a very fun show to do. It was very fun and a lot of work. And I look back on that time very fondly. And I'm grateful for the person that I am now.

[33:25] Eli Tokash: That's on growth.

[33:30] John Cardoza: Let's talk about Moulin Rouge. So this is literally happening as we speak. You're in a hotel room, you're traveling the world. What the heck is that? What is your life? How is that treating you? Is this your first tour?

[33:43] John Cardoza: This is my first tour. And it really like came out of nowhere. It was not really on my radar. I had just finished because I was sort of ready to move back to New York because like, I've been out of town all of last year. I had two jobs that just so happened to line up back to back spanning the year. I was like, okay, I'm leaving New York and that's good. But I also like, I've been having a really tough time in New York personally. And so I was like, really ready to step away from the city for a while. And so to be able to step away from the city and continue to work at a capacity that I wanted to be working at was a real gift. So that whole year was amazing. And so those two jobs came to an end.

And I was like, sort of getting ready to go back to New York. And I was feeling really anxious about it. And I was like, I don't know like what the next step is, but I don't know that I'm really ready to go back to New York. I got a self tape request for like potential future replacements for Moulin Rouge, like across all companies. And that's one of those things that I just sort of assume the tape's going to go into the void. You know, it's like the self tape void, the thing where lost things go. But I was like, you know, I was like, why not? I told, you know, I talked to my manager about it. And she was like, you know, do it, do it if you want. But you know, these things, like I'm sure at some point, they'll actually be looking and this won't be the last time that we hear from them.

And I was like, no, no, no, I want to, this will give me something to work on. And I really love singing these songs. So I did the self tape. And a couple weeks later, actually, like just prior to that, somebody who was on the tour, David Harris, who is now the Duke in the Broadway company, we had done a show together years ago. And he messaged me on Instagram and was like, have you ever gone in for this? And I was like, no, are they looking? And he was like, no, but can I put your name in? And I was like, sure, go for it. So a couple weeks later, I got like an in person callback. And I was like, oh, great. For what? I was like, oh, great. And they're like, and I was like, for where? They're like, for the tour.

And I was like, again, I was like, I don't know if I want to be out of town again. But I still wasn't really feeling ready to go back to New York. So I was like, maybe this is the right time. I don't know. So I was like, well, we'll keep pursuing it and see how we feel. I did, I think it was like two callbacks for that. And then there was a lot of discussion around because I was attached to another project at the time. And we weren't really sure what the timeline was on that and what my availability would be. So it took a little while to hear back before they were able to make an offer and commit to me, which I'm so grateful for. And I'm having the time of my life out here. What a fun show.

[36:40] Eli Tokash: It's incredible. It's so much fun. And I have such, you know, I'd seen the show years ago, like when it first opened. I saw it again when Derek went in, because obviously I had to go see. And like, I think the last couple times that I had watched it, I sort of just let it wash over me as this like spectacle of a thing. And so like having the book in my hands, having the script in my hands and discussing the, you know, the heartbeat of the show with Alex Timbers and Matt DeCarlo, our associate director, who really taught me the show. And these people who live and breathe this show, like, I just watch it so differently now. And I have such respect for the people who take on these roles. They are very challenging.

And also coming into something like this that has such an immense like cult following. And yeah, I mean, it's very nerve wracking, because you're taking on this thing that people care a lot about, and you want to do it justice, and you want to do it well, not only for yourself, but for them. So yeah, it's been really eye opening and wonderful. And everybody's been really, really lovely. And I got to learn the show from Connor Ryan, who is, if you have seen, I don't know if you've seen him do the show, or if anybody watching this has seen him do the show, but like, it's really a very profound, heart forward performance. So that was really fun to watch. And yeah, it's just been a blast.

[38:20] Eli Tokash: I love that. That's great. Do you have, I mean, you're traveling North America, do you have a favorite place that you've been to so far?

[38:30] John Cardoza: Oh my gosh, you're gonna get me in trouble, because I feel like people are gonna watch this from every city and they're gonna be like, is it me? And I will say, I've really, really enjoyed all of them. What has stuck out for me about Atlanta, which is where I am now, is that it's the first city that I didn't stay in a hotel. I'm in an Airbnb with two of my friends on the tour. And so those first couple cities were amazing, because you have, like, I was still being put into the show. And like, everything was very new. But the highs were very high. And then you come home at the end of the day, and you're alone in this hotel room that feels really, really, it can feel very sterile and very isolating.

So the like, the energy shift becomes a little jarring. And so coming and the show itself is sort of just this like roller coaster of a ride. And we're just so exhausted. But it's been really, really nice here. There's it's a beautiful walk from the Airbnb to the theater. And it's a really lovely walk home. So it's like a nice time to decompress. And then I get here and I have two of my friends here. I know that there are other people in the space. It feels a little more homey, a little more lived in. And so that has really elevated my experience in Atlanta. That is not to say that I did not enjoy the other cities, I had a great time. Just still learning. I'm still learning how to

[39:56] John Cardoza: And how to maintain a quality of life outside of the show that still feels grounded and, you know, comfortable. So we're learning. It's a crash course, but we're learning. Always. There's always something to learn in this freaking industry. Right when you think you know everything, you know nothing. But I was literally gonna say, I was like, wow, they've got you in some lavish hotel room. I'm actually in my friend Tommy's room right now because his room has the router in it and my room is upstairs and too far away from the router so it keeps kicking me off the internet. So thank you, Tommy. I love it. Well talk to me, because tour life is crazy for all the reasons you just said. You know, you feel like, you know, you have such a family because you literally spend every second of each other's day together.

You know, with the cast, you're traveling together, you're doing all the things. But then at times, you know, it can feel really isolating and you don't know those like familiar faces that you usually have outside of the cast and, you know, whether it be just friends and going out and having that even opportunity, you know, like there. And so the tour life schedule is very bizarre and very weird. So run me through your, like, Tuesdays. So you get to a new city and because I don't know if we've ever talked about this on the podcast before. So when you get to a new city, you obviously travel and that's your day off. So congrats. I hope you slept comfy. And then you have to go to this brand new space and do a whole new show that same night.

And you know, you have mic check and you have the tour of the theater. Run me through your days and like the craziness of coming to a new state and just like kind of giving insight of how that all works. So with our show, it's actually, it's a little bit, it's a little bit better in that because the show is so big, like if you can see the tour, it is, I mean, they spared really no expense. It's very much the Broadway show. They have a deck that they travel with. So we do have the automation. We do have these giant pieces. We have an elephant and a windmill. We have the things that you want to see. Well, we have the elephant and windmill when the theater is large enough to hold that. So it varies from city to city, but we have them.

I mean, it's huge. And because it's so huge, it takes them an extra day to set up the stage. So we travel on Monday and Tuesday is usually an actual day off. So you travel and arrive on Monday and then you have Tuesday becomes your Monday. But the catch is, so Wednesday is a normal day and you have your orientation at five. So at five o'clock, you get to the theater and they show you the space and they show you what about each building is different. For example, in Atlanta, there's no crossover behind the stage. If you're gonna cross, you need to go underneath the stage. And it's quite an adventure to get to the other side. And all the dressing rooms are like three floors, four floors, five floors up.

So you can't return to your dressing room for costume changes. So we're doing changes in booths underneath and on each side that aren't usually there. So the orientation is to learn things like that. And then you have your sound check at six. And then you have your show and then you have your lift call and you know the things that you do. And 7:30 is your go time. Now because you had that Tuesday off, that beautiful, beautiful Tuesday off, you have two shows on Thursday. And then you have a show on Friday and then we have five show weekends every weekend. So you also have two shows on Saturday and two shows on Sunday. So the schedule remains eight shows, it just gets condensed. So those first weeks in new cities can be crazy.

But they are, I mean, I think the reason that I say I can't complain is because you have the energy of being in a new city and being in a new theater and being with new dressers. There's so much new energy that you kind of just, it kind of just carries you to the finish line. The adrenaline is always there for sure.

[44:11] Eli Tokash: Yeah, and it's very helpful, particularly on those first weeks that are very challenging.

[44:16] John Cardoza: Yeah, I can't imagine. Oh my god, I didn't even like think about that the whole week.

[44:20] Eli Tokash: Yeah, yeah. But it's the size of the show that gives us that extra Tuesday. But then we make up for that later on in the week. And you bring up an interesting point in the fact that like, you know, the show does change based on the capacity and like how big the theaters are, which is something that people may not also know as a tour. I'm sure you have to like, because I don't know, on Mary Poppins we had to like cut off some of our stage in certain ways.

[44:49] John Cardoza: Oh really?

[44:50] Eli Tokash: Yeah. And then some of it, our stage was too small so we had to step up in some parts and step down to continue to use the space. So I don't know if there's anything like that going on, but there are additions and subtractions in probably every travel day that you have. It's craziness. Well that's so funny. I'm curious because like, you know, with Jagged Little Pill, The Notebook, Karate Kid, all the things I've mentioned that you've been in, with Moulin Rouge, you know, this is something that's out there. And I'm curious, you know, were you a fan before? Did that kind of change your process in the sense of like bringing yourself to this character that you had a blueprint where you've been kind of creating these things? Like what was that whole thing like for you?

[45:37] John Cardoza: I mean I was and I wasn't. Like I, similarly to how I wasn't really anticipating going on tour, I have never replaced in a show. I have never come into a long-running company before. So this was a new experience for me and it comes with its own unique set of challenges. And like you said, one of those things is sort of being like, yes, was I aware of the show? Had I seen the show? Did I have a good time at the show? Yes, absolutely. When I was in New York rehearsing the show, they offered for me to go see it in New York again. But at that point I was like, I want to focus on what I'm doing in the show. And I was like, as much as I want to learn the track, I was like, I know that I'll have plenty of time to trail in the two weeks that I have out on tour before I start performances.

So I was like, I'm not worried about learning the track. I was like, and I'm more concerned that if I go see somebody else doing the show, while I'm figuring out my own version of Christian, that I might absorb certain things. So I was like, you know, I'm just gonna save it. I know that I'm gonna have to watch it on tour. And so I think the less access that I have to watching people do this, the better. So I tried to keep to myself as much as possible while I was learning the role. And then once I got out to Houston was my first sort of stop. I didn't perform in Houston, but that was where I joined the company and started rehearsing on stage. By the time I got there, I was pretty confident in what I had been doing.

That I was like, I know what my version is. And now I feel like I can start learning the rest of the track from this person who's doing it. And appreciate their performance without jeopardizing the decisions that I've made.

[48:13] Eli Tokash: For sure. Yeah, I mean it's easy to allow yourself to be influenced, you know, and watching all of that. But that's pretty cool to hear your journey through finding your own Christian because I was curious, you know. Because that's all I've ever done is replaced. I've never like create, well not on Broadway. So it's like I was curious to know, you know, how you kind of had that reversed, I don't know, experience. So that's pretty cool to hear.

[48:47] John Cardoza: Well I don't want to keep you too much longer, but I do want to ask you about, you know, you have The Notebook and Karate Kid, these two developmental pieces that, you know, you've recently just worked on and finished. And I'm curious, in kind of the same way, in the sense that like, you know, both of these musicals, similar to Moulin Rouge, have such like an established fan base already with the books, the movies, and whatever it is. Cobra Kai even, you know, which is fire. Fire shows. Shout out to Netflix. We love Cobra Kai, my family.

[49:27] John Cardoza: Anyways, moving on. It's so cool to, you know, bring that to life in a live action kind of world. Is that something that you had to take a similar approach in the sense that like, oh I'm familiar with the work and I don't want to watch the movies, or whatever that is for you to find your own Daniel, or in everything like that?

[49:48] John Cardoza: I mean, I had a very different experience with both of those shows and the way that the material was approached, and the way that the fans surrounded it. Like they were just very different. Both shows took very different approaches to adapting for a stage show. And yeah, I mean particularly with Karate Kid, that was a concern for me going into it, because I'm very aware of, I mean Ralph Macchio is Daniel LaRusso, you know? It's like there has never been another, there will never be another. And I am a huge departure from that. And you know, I'm gonna say something that might be controversial in terms of, like I'm sure some of my friends who I did the show with, and the people who put me in the show, you know, they saw something in me that to them felt like Daniel.

But when I was going into the show, I was asking myself a lot. I was like, I don't know if I feel right for this. I don't know if I am the right choice for this role, but I trusted the fact that the people who saw something in me that seemed to reflect this character, you know, I trusted what they saw. And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do my best with this. And I went into it, and again, like it sort of goes back to what I was saying earlier, I don't know if I was, there might be other people out there who might make a more authentic Daniel LaRusso. But I do believe that I was the right person for the job at the time. I think that I'm extremely proud of the work that I did out there. I'm extremely proud of the work that we all did out there, and what we accomplished in St. Louis.

I think that, and you know, for some people who come to see the show and who saw me do this, like the fact that they were so willing to embrace my take on this character is amazing. And I had such a great time doing it, and should it ever come back around again, you know, we'll figure that out. But I was so grateful for my time in St. Louis and for the support that I got from the team in sort of creating my own Daniel. And it really had to, it had to be a creation of my own Daniel. It couldn't be, it couldn't be a carbon copy of this other thing simply because of who I am. But the show has so much heart and so much potential, and I hope that people get to see it at some point, because it's really... I didn't get to see it.

It's one of those things that like you hear about it, you see the words on paper, the Karate Kid the musical, and it's something that just doesn't make sense, and you watch it happen and you're like, why am I having such a great time? It's like one of those like sneak attack shows.

[53:07] Eli Tokash: I love that. Yeah, it's really, it's a lot of fun.

[53:14] John Cardoza: You know again like you said like similarly has that sort of like that following that spans years because I mean it's it's a well it's it's the movie it's all of these things I think what they do what I tell myself and what I think they've done very successfully is that so it started as a novel right it was the notebook Nicholas Sparks and then it was adapted into a movie and if you've ever read the novel you know that there are things in the movie that were not in the novel because it's a movie and it needs to feel cinematic and expansive and it's a medium that can do things that a novel can't similarly to that if you read the novel and you watch the musical there are going to be things in the musical that are not a part of the book and we also have this additional aspect of the movie and how does that interpret how does that work itself into the adaptation well just like there are things in the movie that were not in its original source material because it's a film they're gonna be things that are and are not on this in the stage show because it's a stage show it's there are things that that a stage can't do that film can do and vice versa so you know you have to accept with notebook and Karate Kid that these are not things that are meant to replace the source material these are things that are meant to expand the experience of the source material it's just it's nothing to take away from something else it's just more to love and and I think that the heartbeat of the notebook is firmly intact with this show and if you enjoy the feelings that you get when you watch the movie or you enjoy the feelings that you get when you read the novel you will enjoy watching the show if you go into it knowing that it is an adaptation of this piece that you love.

[55:26] Eli Tokash: I feel like you've answered that question before because that was like the perfect answer you know I haven't I I've answered that question many times but every time I talk about it sort of something new comes out of it because now I've done a few of these at this point and because I mean Moulin Rouge is also an adaptation it was a movie and there are things about the the stage show that are very different from the film but people enjoy it because it's an expansion of this thing that they love yeah and as long as you go into it knowing that that thing that you love is not going anywhere it's not going to be replaced you can kind of enjoy these new versions of it a little bit more and you'll always have that original piece.

[56:18] John Cardoza: Yeah I love that I mean it's interesting that you say this because like I feel like Broadway has kind of turned into like a Broadway Hollywood you know with all of these film adaptations that we have going into musicals and everything and so to have that kind of like stigma still around these adaptations of everything you know like a fan base is expecting the one thing like it just simply the reality is as much as we all love it it just simply can't be that you know and it like never will be that just like the movie will never be what the stage is so it's an interesting point that you brought up and that's why I was like that that it's so clear the way that you put it and make so much sense so yeah that was that was great and it's cool to hear that and to I don't know as a fan of like seeing these things and everything you know you kind of have to clean slate and rewatch it all you know like just performers let them tell their story let them tell this story you know like kind of forget everything else.

[57:29] John Cardoza: Yeah and knowing that we the people who are working on the show also have a deep respect for the source material and are doing the best we can to keep the heartbeat of that material intact whether that is the notebook or the Karate Kid or Moulin Rouge or I was also a film adaptation I mean so many film adaptations it's like there so many of them are just like cultural staples that that yeah that are not only being expanded upon but also oftentimes being updated for new audiences and you and you think about there are so many people that I meet at the stage door for Moulin Rouge who are like I haven't seen the movie yet and now I'm gonna go home and watch it because this was my introduction so like for those of you who are out there thinking oh my gosh it'll never be as good as the movie there are so many people who are going to be introduced to this thing that you love by way of these other things it's simply carrying on the tradition you know honoring the source material of it all way.

[58:25] Eli Tokash: Yeah absolutely and we love that I saw that you met Ralph Macchio and I kind of flipped out like freaked out that had to be such a cool experience especially like playing him kind of that what was that like.

[58:39] John Cardoza: Oh my gosh it was it was so cool I he was actually he was supposed to come earlier on in the run but there had been an issue with like illness or personal things so I kind of I was like okay he's not gonna get to see it that's okay you know but like how cool would that have been and then like at the last second it was like one of our last shows he was there and I was I I mean yeah what do you do I was like I just gotta go out there and do this show and and again I was like I think that whole performance was just me telling myself like you're gonna be fine like yes you're doing this like it's like I said like I'm such a huge departure from his his Daniel LaRusso that I was like you know what I I just have to stick to this I can't be making any like subconscious changes because I know this person is watching and that was like right sort of my first because he's such a an iconic figure like not only not only in the sense that I was playing this role that he did but just like I mean that Ralph Macchio is in the zeitgeist like we everyone knows who this man is right and what this role is and this thing is that he created and like that like you just meet him and you're like oh my gosh you're such a nice such a nice grounded kind person like I'm just gonna be here yeah it was lovely he was really really lovely and very supportive and and yeah and I was like you know what if Ralph had a good time then we can all be okay with it and that is how we end the show.

[1:00:27] Eli Tokash: You know that was a good time we all had a good time we all had a good time John this has been this is great and then your stories I could talk to you forever yeah I mean we didn't even talk about but you have you're such a you know just a talent to this industry and to be sharing that with with the world literally on tour and going to different places it's so cool and so much fun and I appreciate you coming on here today to continue to you know share a little bit more about you John and not like John as Christian or John as Daniel or like other things so this has been a real treat so thank you.

[1:01:15] John Cardoza: Yeah take a bow for thank you so much I really appreciate your time thank you this is a blast.

[1:01:27] Eli Tokash: Oh my goodness so much fun talking to him about his career and all the fun things that he's up to now I mean literally since the pandemic it's just he's been jumping around to different projects and so we've actually tried to schedule this a few different times and it's always just been something's popping up and there's always craziness going on in one of our lives so I'm so glad that we were able to make that happen talk to him about you know Moulin Rouge that he's currently doing and then a little bit about like Karate Kid and Notebook which not as many people may have seen as you know Jagged Little Pill or Moulin Rouge but it was still cool to kind of get some insight and how he you know approaches that sort of material and approaches material in general to get that insight just because I didn't know as much about you know the shows as I did like Moulin Rouge and Jagged because you know I've seen those shows so it was great it was we had a great time hopefully you all enjoyed the episode.

[1:02:29] Eli Tokash: I want to also mention he shared some really really cool stories and so so many relatable stories as performers so many times as performers we like get these breakdowns from agents or we see them online or from friends or whatever happens and in sending them along as you you know try out in audition for a role and he brought up something so important that I think needs to be stressed and heard in the sense that you know not every audition that you get you're gonna feel right for but I've always looked at it is it's so important to just be like seen by that team because maybe something down the line is gonna happen maybe there's another role in the show that you could do maybe they're working on another project that they could bring you over for and I thought I thought it was really cool in the sense that you know he didn't really feel like he was right originally for the part of Daniel LaRusso in Karate Kid but he was like you know what I'm gonna give it a shot and it's something that all actors need to take advantage of the hey they get an audition somebody wants to see you like go audition you may not feel like you're right but you never know what happens and that's something that happens way more than you could think so thank you for bringing that up today because that like literally it's so real so I was just happy that he mentioned that and just staying that you know not right for the role but right for the job and you know he had so many great little things in there and and rooting for your friends and choosing kindness and all the things like there's so much here from a performer that you can learn from and how to attack material and what tour life is like and all those things but then you also have those like little life lessons and voice tips and whatever it was just it was really great and and so I'm thrilled for for John to come on here and to share all of those little tips and tidbits with us and hopefully that you all really appreciate that and you know start to incorporate that in your repertoire in your audition life and your practices and all the things.

[1:04:34] Eli Tokash: So once again thank you all so much for listening to this week's episode we had a blast doing it for you guys and we can't wait to do it again next week we're gonna have another great guest next week and we have some really heavy hitters coming up so really excited about all of that and so stay tuned follow us at take about podcast on the tick tocks on the on the what do you cause on the Instagram's on the tux and on the YouTube and as always appreciate your support and appreciate you all for listening so hope to see you next week and until then bye everyone have a great week.

[1:05:15] Eli Tokash: For this episode's curtain call I would like to recognize a few people who also deserve to take a bow this podcast would not be possible without the help of Dory Berenstain, Alan Seales, Kimberly Garris, and the team at the Broadway Podcast Network. Next in line to take a bow are our fabulous editors Jessica Warren who edits the audio of the podcast that you just listened to and Tessie Tokash who edits the videos and visuals for this podcast and how about a bow for our executive producer Chris Griner and our final bow our extra special to the patrons Brian Thompson, Pat McNamara, the listeners of PCC as well as all of the other patrons for their continued support. If you're interested in becoming a patron go to patreon.com slash TAB.

If you enjoyed this week's episode make sure to subscribe on the platform that you are currently listening to this on or go check out our YouTube where you can watch the episode. You can also subscribe, like, and comment on there as well. If you're more into the regular social media and want to follow us you can do that at Take A Bow podcast across all social media platforms. The music of this podcast was made by Nikki Torsha and Cormac Collin and the logo was created by Giselle Bustos. And that wraps up this episode's curtain call. Thank you all again for listening to this week's episode and I can't wait to see you next week. Bye everyone, have a great week.