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[0:00] Andrea Savage: This is Andrea Savage, and you are listening to The Art of Kindness.

[0:11] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:40] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, friends. Happy August. I'm coming to you with a conversation featuring a recording process that turned out to be an act of kindness in itself. Yeah, this is kind of the little episode that could, experiencing technical issues that we don't usually encounter on the A-OK. Knock on wood. Is that real wood? I don't know. It's probably that weird Wayfair rubber wood. I bring up the tech issues because our guest couldn't have been more patient or kind about each bump we hit in the road. And don't worry, you probably won't even notice the issues because editing. Anyway, I'm talking about the amazing Andrea Savage.

[1:19] Robert Peterpaul: Andrea Savage is a true Renaissance creative and actress, writer, director, producer, and podcaster, best known for creating and starring in the critically acclaimed comedy series I'm Sorry, which I loved. She's also known for memorable roles in series like Tulsa King opposite Sylvester Stallone, HBO's Veep, Showtime's Episodes, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and the film Step Brothers, which I do bring up and I'm not sorry about it. Beyond acting, Andrea continues to develop, write, direct, and produce film and television projects that showcase her signature blend of sharp wit and comedic kindness. The two of us might even produce a new show together about making friends on the train. We talk about it. As always, I hope you'll join our kindness community on social media at Rob Peterpaul and at Art of Kindness Pod. Oh, audio hug. Now, without further ado, please welcome the awesome Andrea Savage.

[2:30] Andrea Savage: How are you?

[2:31] Robert Peterpaul: I'm good. I love that you're doing this podcast, by the way. It's such a wonderful thing. That's like important for it, I think, because it makes people stop and actually go like, huh, what do I think kindness is like? It forces you to like really think about stuff that we all should be thinking about more.

[2:54] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you. I appreciate that. And I think it gets such like a puppies and rainbows rep. And I think it's a bit more complicated than that, you know, and it doesn't have to be something that we all like shy away from and think is Pollyanna or like, yeah, yeah.

[3:10] Andrea Savage: Everyone should take a shot every time someone says Pollyanna, because people do say that a lot, actually, on this podcast.

[3:15] Robert Peterpaul: I feel like, yeah, I mean, I feel like you'd get a mild buzz. I don't know if you'd, you know, which is probably the healthier way, because I can't imagine people are saying it that much. You'd have to listen a lot in a row to really get a party going.

[3:31] Andrea Savage: Yeah, that is why people listen, I believe.

[3:33] Robert Peterpaul: That's what I have heard. Well, Andrea, you look so lovely. I love this shirt.

[3:38] Andrea Savage: Thank you. I love a cute T-shirt. I'm not going to lie. My drawers are filled with T-shirts, so I tend to wear the same couple over and over. So once in a while I force myself to be like, all right, something other than just your same plain white T-shirt.

[3:52] Robert Peterpaul: I know. I know. I feel that. Have you heard of you can actually stitch your T-shirts together and make a blanket?

[3:57] Andrea Savage: I did it a few years back. Highly recommend it.

[3:59] Robert Peterpaul: I'll tell you what my blanket would look like. One white duvet cover. Like it wouldn't look interesting. I don't know what it is. I've taken two. I have like one white T-shirt that I love and I probably have 12 of them. And I just now it's become almost just like an easy uniform. But I have to force myself to like put on a put on a stripe.

[4:17] Andrea Savage: Yeah. You know what? White duvet cover. That's what they called me when I played baseball back in high school. So I think that's great. I have to say, Andrea, I'm such a big fan of you from Step Brothers to I'm Sorry, which I am actually so sorry that that is gone. We were obsessed with that show and how you balance, I think, in particular a reverent, edgy comedy. But I think you just do it in such a kind, warm way. It's not mean spirited, even though it has like that edge. And yet you deliver it in such a way that never makes anybody feel bad. So you shouldn't have to say I'm sorry, in my opinion.

[5:04] Andrea Savage: I appreciate you saying that because I will say that's something I actually spend a lot of time focusing on and making sure I'm making sure I'm always putting stuff through that filter of. I don't want my comedy to take the piss out of somebody. It's just not my style of comedy. But it's interesting because I do think in comedy kindness can seem lame. It's like kind of like too earnest and sort of dumb. And I'm like, I tried to very purposely push against that idea and be like, no, you can still do edgy, weird, raunchy humor that has some kindness and positivity behind it without having to be like, I love you. Oh, I love you, too. You know, but I do appreciate you saying that because I really do feel like it's possible. And your humor doesn't have to be treacly, sacchariney. Just as long as you kind of get that the characters underneath really like each other and they give each other shit as their love language. I always say my love language is like giving you shit. And if I'm like incredibly not joking around or not kind of teasing you, I probably don't care for you as a person. Like that's a pretty good indicator.

[6:30] Robert Peterpaul: Do you think that comes from growing up?

[6:35] Andrea Savage: I appreciate you saying that because it's something that I spend a lot of time focusing on. In my writer's room, I'm always like, guys, we're never going to be mean about someone else. The joke will always be on me or one of the main kind of characters. And as long as the intention behind what you're doing is good.

[6:53] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[6:54] Andrea Savage: And you get you've set up that this person's not an asshole. I think you can do a lot of comedy without having to be mean.

[7:04] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I think it's a bit more artful. And I do think in its purest form. And again, it sounds lame, but I think comedy and what you all do is an act of kindness. I mean, we're watching it because we want to feel good. We want to feel happy. We want to laugh. And so I don't know. It just feels a little bit cheap to kind of take those low shots sometimes. And I really noticed that about you as soon as I started falling in love with your comedy. So I just appreciate it. One Muppet over here going to talk about you and compliment you this whole time.

[7:27] Andrea Savage: I did, Andrea. I wanted to start almost by having you say buttholes, not to steal from your podcast.

[7:38] Andrea Savage: Oh, my God. That's going back in some time.

[7:41] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I know. I mean, so good. And this is how I say buttholes.

[7:45] Andrea Savage: There we go. Everybody tune in if you haven't already. I feel like I say buttholes in a very sort of straightforward way. I don't think there's anything unique about the way I say buttholes. And by the way, it's not that I feel like people sometimes are like, you love potty humor or buttholes. I'm like, I actually don't. I'm kind of known. I don't like poop jokes in general.

[8:07] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[8:08] Andrea Savage: I think the word butthole is just a word that you can't say and not have a little bit of levity behind it. Like you can never be mad and use the word butthole or being mean to somebody. Like you'd sound ridiculous.

[8:25] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[8:26] Andrea Savage: And I think as a grown-up being forced to say the word butthole just sort of loosens. Everyone gets like on the same playing field.

[8:34] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[8:35] Andrea Savage: It levels everybody to the same level of just, hey, let's all just accept we all have a butthole.

[8:42] Robert Peterpaul: We do. Well, hopefully. And I think it's a great way to start. And how I usually start over here is not by talking about buttholes, though we can go down that rabbit hole. I usually like to ask people.

[8:52] Andrea Savage: No, I feel like we shouldn't.

[8:53] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I feel like we should probably cut our losses again, Andrea.

[8:56] Andrea Savage: Yeah, let's get out while we can. I usually like to ask people such as yourself, how are you at accepting compliments? Because I feel like that's something we crave in this industry, but it's tricky.

[9:07] Andrea Savage: You know what? If I'm being honest, does this make me sound like an asshole? I think I've kind of always been okay accepting compliments.

[9:18] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[9:19] Andrea Savage: And I know that's weird to say, and I probably wouldn't have admitted that when I was younger. If it's something that I also have put work into and feel like I've earned the compliment. So I feel like if I feel that way, I'll be like, you know what? I really appreciate that. And I take it very inside. And I really appreciate it. And I'm like, thank you. If it's something that I don't feel like I've earned, I think I will step back and go, you know what? I don't think I actually deserve the compliment on this one. It's this person or that, or I just got lucky or whatever.

[9:58] Andrea Savage: Yeah. I think when someone compliments me, I either accept it because I'm like, you know what? I worked for that, and I so am grateful. Or no, I didn't earn that.

[10:09] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Well, and it also makes the giver feel good. Like before, when I said that I really appreciated your comedy style, and you actually were like, oh, yeah, thank you. I work hard at that. It made me feel good because I'm sort of like, oh, I gave a compliment that she feels like she resonates with. And so that makes sense to me. But I do think a lot of listeners struggle with this. And so just hearing you say that, it's so weird, though, because we want that. This is like an applause-based industry.

[10:34] Andrea Savage: I know, and it's weird because I'm like, why do I feel kind of guilty for admitting? Because I feel like the thing to be is like, oh, I'm not very good at compliments. You know, that's the sort of like expected answer. And I'm like, you know what? I actually I really feel like I'm OK with them when they feel earned.

[10:54] Robert Peterpaul: Well, you don't sound like a butthole at all for saying that. And one other thing I've heard you say in interviews a lot, which I just love, is no, it's OK. Your mind is in a constant battle between the Cornell side and the Carney side, and you're just trying to get them to make out. And I've never related to anything more, even though I didn't go to Cornell. It doesn't matter. Like, how is that battle still raging on today for you? Like, are you a part of the battle? Are you kind of watching it on the sidelines now? Have they, you know, made a kingdom together?

[11:23] Andrea Savage: I feel like they, I found a way to get them to play nice when I'm able to write and produce something and also be in it. So like when I'm kind of doing both sides of my brain at once, they kind of both back down and are like, all right, maybe we can kiss. And then when I'm sort of like panicking about something or, you know, getting too much, especially into the development side, which is what I think the past five years have kind of been for me in a way. The Carney side starts screaming a little bit and going like, what about me? You know, you got to be a little weirder. You got to like let loose a little bit and stop just kind of following this, you know, sort of very. You know, the industry is very sort of traditional in lots of ways, and so that part will start screaming more. But when I do find myself working on a project where I can merge them, they both kind of relax a little.

[12:34] Robert Peterpaul: OK, I like that. The butthole relax.

[12:36] Andrea Savage: I'm so sorry. I don't mean to keep bringing this back.

[12:38] Robert Peterpaul: You know what, Robert? I'll be honest. It seems like you might be the one that's obsessed with butthole.

[12:44] Andrea Savage: I think I can admit that here today just because I feel safe with you. So this is a growing period for me. This is a big day for both of us.

[12:54] Robert Peterpaul: This is a really big day. During this moment. Yeah. Well, with that in mind, you know, you're good at so many things just to keep complimenting you and to not. I'm going to end the butthole talk here. And you're so smart. Like, do you ever run into the issue of struggling with perfectionism at all and sort of overanalyzing yourself like a hundred percent?

[13:12] Andrea Savage: And it's something I struggled with more, you know, probably a decade ago. And I've tried to really spend a lot of energy and insurance at therapists to really getting that copay going. It's about letting that go a little bit. Understanding that it is a strength often until it turns to the other side. And I think I really got caught in like I can do everything and I want to appear that I can do everything and it has to be done perfectly. And that was exhausting. And I was like, you know what? You're exhausted by this. It's also not who you really are. Yeah. So let's start letting that go a little bit. And it's very freeing. But yes, a hundred percent. I still struggle with it, but I'm better at catching myself and going, you know what? No, it's going to be what it's going to be. And you tried and that's what you can do and you'll continue to make it better or whatever it is. But letting go of some of that perfectionism for sure.

[14:28] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. And even in comedy, especially, I think you run into that, right? It's like an overcooked joke just isn't funny at a certain point if you keep analyzing.

[14:36] Andrea Savage: A hundred percent. Like at a certain point, you're like, it's not even I can't even recognize the word that we're saying. It's gone to a weird level of like those letters don't even make sense to me anymore.

[14:47] Robert Peterpaul: I know.

[14:49] Andrea Savage: But I also do believe that the difference between something, especially when you're writing a script and you're really at the dialogue part of it. I do think. Not that it's easy, but I will say it's you know, you can get to a pretty good B and it's hard, but it's not like you're not blood, sweat and tears. It's getting that last 10 percent. And really not stopping and going, I think we can beat this joke. I think that's a good version, but I know there's got to be just like the littlest best. That's the blood, sweat and tears. That I really do feel like takes things from good to, whoa, did you see that? So, you know, I don't know if I call perfectionism, but I do believe that it's that weird last 10 percent that you do actually have to really lean into. Even when you're like, I never want to look at this fucking thing again. I'm so over this goddamn script.

[15:51] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, no, that's great advice. It's sort of like the redirection of power versus inward and thinking and overanalyzing yourself, putting it into your work. And, you know, I wonder, obviously, we're here today to talk about kindness and all the themes under that umbrella throughout your wonderful career. And, you know, growing up in the valley until now, I wonder, what is your definition of kindness just to start? And how do you think it's changed over the years, Andrea?

[16:13] Andrea Savage: Lord, these are good questions. You know, I feel like I've actually, you know, I have a daughter and I spend a lot of time talking to her about kindness and have kind of her whole life. So I feel like I've actually thought about this a bit to me. Empathy is kindness. I think the ability to understand that when somebody is being unkind. Often they're in pain. Also, just when someone's whatever being short at the DMV or whatever, just going. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. It's just stopping and having the moment to have empathy for what someone else's experience is. And it's almost like I try to. I don't know, like a detective go, what could they be going through that would have led to that? Before I just be like, what the fuck is happening? Why is that? You know. And if somebody like, you know, my daughter in school, if somebody is kind of mean or this and that, I, I always have just been like, that's not good and it's not OK. But I wonder what's going on with them. Because I have never met somebody who is actually happy who's a dick. Never, ever, ever.

[17:41] Robert Peterpaul: Hmm.

[17:42] Andrea Savage: And so I feel like empathy. Trying to stop, put yourself in their perspective to me is a big part of kindness.

[17:54] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love that, too. And I love the example and how you're teaching your daughter. She's so lucky to have you. I think fighting back with empathy, because if we fight back with aggression, it's just what's going to happen at the end of the day. You're both going to be in trouble and then you'll probably never talk to the person again. And that's just a negative history you'll have in your brain versus approaching it with empathy. You know, maybe you won't end up friends, but you'll probably end up with a positive outcome. And again, I'm not sitting there going, you should hug and like end up like taking them to lunch, you know, but just we're all. This is the other thing that I constantly remind myself. And it's part of like whatever project I'm writing. It doesn't matter what genre it is. I've realized that this is kind of behind me is just going. We're all more alike than we are different.

[18:41] Andrea Savage: Hmm.

[18:42] Robert Peterpaul: Just constantly remembering are all of our basic wants are so simple. And it doesn't matter where you're from or your background or whatever. We're all way more alike than what the world is constantly telling us that we are at odds.

[19:01] Andrea Savage: Yeah. And I think I do that partially for my own mental health of just like hope within the world right now. And just needing to believe that we are all more connected. But it's something that I do. I mean, like, it's like a mantra of mine.

[19:21] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I love that so much. I mean, we just moved into our first home.

[19:25] Andrea Savage: That's huge.

[19:29] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you. Thank you so much. And one of our neighbors really is kind of soul and was like, I know it doesn't feel real. I'm still waiting for the IRS or someone to like knock on the door. And our neighbor came and he was like, do you have a lawnmower? And I said, oh, not yet. I'm going to buy one. He's like, don't worry about it. I'll mow your lawn. And he's been mowing our lawn, the kindest soul. And then the garage door open one day. And I saw a sign for, you know, a political figure that I don't necessarily care. And that was an instance of what you were talking about. It just gave me hope of sort of like meeting people where we are. We all have the capacity to connect and be kind to each other. It's like that Heineken commercial.

[20:11] Andrea Savage: Which was so good.

[20:12] Robert Peterpaul: It was it was in 2016. I actually think it was. It was called Open Your World. And it was two people from different backgrounds.

[20:18] Andrea Savage: I did it.

[20:21] Robert Peterpaul: They met. They built an IKEA table together. I'm going to cry.

[20:24] Andrea Savage: I would have cried at this commercial.

[20:25] Robert Peterpaul: I'm going to send it to you. It's honestly one of the best commercials I've ever seen. And it's all about this exact thing. Like we can do things together, not knowing that we have opposite views on X, Y and Z. And I would say I got a big lesson of this traveling once where I was in Morocco. And I was on a train and I had bought accidentally the train that stops in every single small town. So what would have been maybe a two hour train ride with nine hours or something insane? Well, you're on that train right now. I hope you know this is going to be about probably 10.

[21:02] Andrea Savage: And I was there with my now ex-husband. And we sat in this little compartment and all day just new people kept coming in the train. And he speaks some Italian and a little French and I speak Spanish. And there's a thing. We ended up meeting people from every walk of life that you can imagine cobbling together conversations. And I'm like, OK, I'm in a country. It's predominantly Islamic, this and that. I'm, you know, we're Jews and this and we're from America. Like there's a lot happening in the world at this point as well in that area with America. Everybody was just like, oh, yeah, I've got kids and I want them to do this. And I'm excited about this. And I'm a teacher and I'm a plumber and I'm a this. And I just cried at the end of the day because I was just like, we're all just trying to like be relatively happy and healthy. Like, yeah.

[22:05] Andrea Savage: And my friends make fun of me because I am known for being weirdly optimistic to the point. Because a lot of my comedian friends are like, well, here she fucking comes, you know, with her goddamn optimism. Someone once called me a relentless optimist, which it was a little aggressive the way they said it, too. But I do identify that way.

[22:28] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it kind of did. But I'm going to admit to you something sometimes and this makes me sound like I'm a woman on the edge and I don't feel like I really am. Just sometimes I just it really hits me in a wave. And I have at times where like an ambulance is going by with its siren and we're in like a really crowded traffic and everybody pulls together to get out of the road. And I will tear up and just be like, look at us guys. We're all doing it together. And I have been made fun of by friends and family for this ridiculous reaction. But I stand behind it.

[23:11] Andrea Savage: But why is that ridiculous is my question.

[23:14] Robert Peterpaul: I'm sure it's related something to our systemic issues. But, you know, it's what we're here for. It's like, you know, if I saw it on the street, I'd probably run the other way. But I think it's kind of a beautiful thing.

[23:28] Andrea Savage: Thank you. No, I think that's probably why you're a successful artist, because you can access your vulnerability. And I wonder not to make you cry right now, but is there an act of kindness?

[23:37] Andrea Savage: If you don't make me cry right now, this podcast was a I'm taking the L, but go ahead.

[23:42] Robert Peterpaul: This is the third L. We got to go. I do want to say to you have eighty seven thousand things in development. But if you don't start developing a talk show where you're on a train talking to strangers, then I'm going to go.

[23:55] Andrea Savage: Okay, but looking back, I'm wondering noted.

[23:58] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, good. Ten percent over here. Is there an act of kindness that you think changed your trajectory in the arts and kind of got you to where you are today? Looking back.

[24:06] Andrea Savage: Wow. You know. I feel like it's a series of lots of acts of kindness, like. It's hard to differentiate, weirdly, gratitude and kindness, because I feel like they're so intertwined.

[24:29] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[24:30] Andrea Savage: Like people taking the time out of their day to give you an extra bit of attention or thought that helps you on the next thing. I feel like there's been so many small things and big things along the way that I'm trying to like my mind is racing.

[24:54] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[24:55] Andrea Savage: I'm glad because it is. I mean, sometimes it is just the small things. It's a friend calling a casting director and telling them about you, you know, that then changes your whole life.

[25:04] Andrea Savage: A hundred percent or, you know, changes your life in a little bit. I don't believe in like the one job that changes everything. I truly believe it's the years of work and it's a series of things that build into something solid. I mean, obviously there are people and there are the fluke stories.

[25:25] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[25:26] Andrea Savage: Holy fuck, they came out of nowhere and just like suddenly boom. But I think the majority of people, it's the years of little wins.

[25:35] Robert Peterpaul: Well, it's like we're all climbing the ladder. We just don't know where the window is going to be on the side of the house. And once you get in the window, you often get. You know, punched in the throat back out the window and then you got to get back on that rock climbing. And catch your breath and go, oh, I thought I thought I was in the house. No, yeah, I'm back out on the rock.

[25:50] Andrea Savage: Yeah, no, you're never going to make it to the roof or the attic. You just, you know, there might not be one. It might be just a series of windows where you get to catch your breath for a little bit until they throw you back out. And once you kind of get OK with that and going, well, that's what it is, then I think you actually get less scared.

[26:18] Andrea Savage: You know, one thing that just popped into my head. Which was kindness. It's hard. There's so many just people who've been so kind in the past, but one thing and this is very work centric. So it's not the most emotional of answers, you know, maybe to other people, but it is to me is when I developed the pilot of I'm sorry, I didn't want to do a script development. I wanted to shoot something to be able to show what it is that's in my head, because I'd done a lot of developing through the systems where you just do a script and a thing. And I shot a 14 minute presentation. And there were so many people who stepped up, who helped me make that for no money, for no anything from June Squibb and Judith Light and Jason Manzoukas and Judy Greer and all these people who showed up to be in this 14 minute presentation to Rachel Goldenberg. Like friend people who stepped up to be the DP people who just stepped up for something.

[27:28] Robert Peterpaul: Some of them have been on this podcast, by the way.

[27:30] Andrea Savage: So it makes sense that they're kind of IRL. They really are. And that changed my life. And made such a difference in so many ways of getting eyeballs on it. Look, I'm fucking tearing up. God damn it. Yes.

[27:50] Robert Peterpaul: But you did it. We won. We take that. We take the win. But if you're going to call me Oprah, that's fine. That's something that, you know, it was multiple acts of kindness that changed my life. And there was nothing in it for them.

[28:09] Andrea Savage: Yeah, it's so beautiful. I mean, that's something I work with a nonprofit that studies kindness from a scientific standpoint.

[28:15] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I love this.

[28:16] Andrea Savage: By the way, talk about the Kearney and the Cornell right there.

[28:20] Robert Peterpaul: That's it. Literally.

[28:21] Andrea Savage: Yes. There's literally a scientist in Oxford. He's studying.

[28:25] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, he's studying kindness right now.

[28:28] Andrea Savage: And it's a lot about like they talk about the ABCs of kindness. Like it's at a cost to you. How much does it cost? What's the benefit to others? And I don't know. There's something beautiful because in my opinion, there's always a benefit. That's not why we do it. But when you're kind to somebody else and they're grateful.

[28:41] Robert Peterpaul: That's so good.

[28:46] Andrea Savage: I love that. I love giving gifts more than getting them. But please still get me gifts. You know what I mean? It's like that.

[28:51] Robert Peterpaul: A hundred percent.

[28:52] Andrea Savage: Yeah. So it comes back to you. And there is science to show that, which is super cool. I also feel like, you know, you see it quickly because I always say to my daughter, people just want to be heard. Like they just want to be seen and they just want to be heard. And we recently were at the DMV because she's in the process of getting her permits.

[29:14] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, congrats.

[29:15] Andrea Savage: That's crazy.

[29:16] Robert Peterpaul: That's a huge milestone for you and for her.

[29:19] Andrea Savage: But, you know, the DMV, a lot of the people who work there have a reputation for not being the kindest and this and that. And we went there and there was this guy who was cutting and this and that. And I just said to the guy, I was like, actually, because he was like, well, there's no line here. And I was like, actually, we all were in the other line over there. And the woman working there came up. She goes, thank you so much for saying that, because I tried to tell him and he yelled at me. And I was just like, this has got to be a really hard job, isn't it? Whatever. And I'm not saying, oh, good on me, whatever. But I noticed that after our little interaction, she was kinder.

[30:00] Robert Peterpaul: It just gives you a little bit of just, oh, catch my breath. And like, now I'm more equipped to be kinder. It just, I don't know, there's something scientific, like you're saying, I'm sure, where it does weirdly actually pay it forward.

[30:19] Andrea Savage: Yeah, it's like a serotonin boost of, you know, if you're nervous to go into a pitch meeting or whatever it is, and someone says, Oh my gosh, you look great. I love your hair or whatever. It kind of like re-energizes me. I know I like almost sleep through the ceiling and I probably need to calm the heck down, honestly. Yeah, pull it together, Robert. Everyone's talking. Thank you. Including my cat, who literally just screamed.

[30:40] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. Did she just scream?

[30:45] Andrea Savage: Yeah. You know what, you saying that right now, that's actually so real because you used to, when auditions were in person and this and that, you'd drive onto the lot and you'd have to check your ID with the security thing to drive on. And the amount of times where some just person working there, checking people in and giving you a parking pass, we're like, you look good. You know, or they were like, I feel good about it. Like they just, and I remember being like, Oh wow, that really just gave me a little boost to walk into this insanity that I'm about to like be vulnerable and reject all the things. And you just saying that reminded me how important, how much they could lift my spirit just driving through that gate. If somebody was just a little bit kind.

[31:38] Andrea Savage: Yeah. It doesn't take much. I mean, you could, and we could all do it at home at the grocery store. You can make it a game. You could smile at people on the street, whatever it is. And I mean, if it's safe and I think it's just beautiful because it comes back, but also maybe if it's not safe, you know what I mean? Let's see what happens. I also just want to also say like hearing us talk about this. I also do want to step away because this is the comedy part of me that goes, it doesn't have to be lame and cheesy though.

[32:04] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Your version of saying hi to someone might be just making a joke, making them laugh or doing something weird. Like it doesn't have to be like, I see you and like Kathy, you know, there's other ways.

[32:19] Andrea Savage: Yeah. I mean, I, I love nothing more than like sitting at a dinner table with people and then finding the one person that will go really deep. But also I liked making kindness a little unhinged and weird. And I think people think it has to be very like hands clasped, floating, walking on air. And it's just, it's just connecting for a moment with somebody. I see you, you see me. We just had a little laugh. We just had a little moment.

[32:43] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. So what do you think, because in looking at your career and I wish I could stop on like every project you've ever done, you play a lot of characters. I love you to really just get deep into everything. Hot wives. Okay. No, in real life, I wonder, because you play a lot of characters who are so like unabashedly honest. And I wonder if you see honesty as an act of kindness or something that conflicts with kindness. Like how do you balance that as a person? Especially as a leader, when you're giving notes?

[33:08] Andrea Savage: I feel like I'm no, I do not think honesty the way a lot of characters I played has a place in most civilized conversation. And it's not something that I'm like, you know what, let's just be honest. I think you want to relay something that you need to relay. But I think that there's tact. And I think that there's, you know, kindness behind relaying messages. I'm not somebody who's just like, well, this is the way it is. So you got to hear it. I'm not that way in real life at all.

[33:50] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I figured you're not. It's just kindness and honesty is super interesting to me. We have Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank on here, who's like brutally honest, and that's his form of kindness. And it was a really interesting conversation. And I actually think characters like some of the ones you play, seeing that honesty allows me to look at people in my own life that maybe we're perceiving as rude. And then I can step back and say, oh, if they were on a TV show, I would love them and I would laugh at them. So like, you know, they're a kind character. And you know what, that's the kind of thing when I encounter someone like that, where I will stop and go, I wonder how they think this is coming off, because I know that they're not a bad person. So what fear do they have that's making them think they have to just be upfront? Like, fear of rejection, fear of being misunderstood. Like, there's a reason that they're doing that. And I do not believe it's because they're dicks. Some of them, maybe. Okay, sure. But the majority of people, if you got to know them, there's a reason that they're acting like that.

[34:58] Andrea Savage: Yeah, I love that. That's something special about actors. I think they understand that because that's sort of the work. You have to do the work to figure out why your character's doing that. So you do have to find justifications.

[35:10] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Where you're like, they're not just an insane person. This makes sense to them for some reason. So what's the, it's like almost playing detective to like, follow the threads.

[35:17] Andrea Savage: Yeah. Well, it would be kind of hilarious if you rooted it in superficial things like they're just afraid of spiders. And like they just every day, they're afraid of spiders going to pop out. And by the way, that's a choice you might ultimately make if it's the right tone or whatever. Like you brought up Hot Wives. It's not like Hot Wives. I was sitting there going like, well, what's the reason that she's calling people Nazi? You know what I mean? Like, that's just, these are heightened, spoofy, ridiculous.

[35:49] Robert Peterpaul: I love a good spoof. I mean, you've, you know, mentioning your career, you've worked with so many titans as you are sort of these people stitched in the pop culture pantheon, you know, quilt to bring it back to a quilt, like Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Sly Stallone. Is there like a, one of these legends that you've worked with in particular who you feel like really embodied kind leadership, something you took away?

[36:08] Andrea Savage: Julia, for sure. She, I can never speak highly enough of this woman. She is kind. She's intentional with her kindness, but without losing, you know, I don't want to say control, but without losing that she is, she has a role to play that is in charge of lots of things. She brings humor to it. She is down to earth. So she makes everyone feel immediately comfortable around her, which I think is something that I've been lucky enough to be around celebrities. Cause I think that is something when you're really famous, one of the first things that you kind of need to do probably for your own self. So you don't feel always like an outsider is how to make everyone feel comfortable around you very quickly. And I think she's incredible with that. Will Ferrell also is like the kindest, another person who, by the way, I feel like does a great job of, I'm sure there's examples and someone will be like, well, what about when he did this? In general, not mean comedy, but really still fucking funny. And he just leads with kindness and is still very funny.

[37:36] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I've heard that. I've heard that about him. He seems like a great soul and stepbrothers. Oh my gosh, bowing down. That's like a prime example of, I hear this all the time, especially for people starting in comedy, get a small role in something and just like chew the crap out of it. And your role in stepbrothers, I would like rewind that part. I just thought you were so hilarious. I mean, the whole movie's hilarious, but yeah. And I have to, you know, give them again, like give them credit. They wanted people to make stuff their own and bring, you know, bring whatever to the table that maybe wasn't in the script. And so they were nurturing and encouraging and wanted you to do that versus the ego of, well, that's not what it was. You know, we've created what it is. You just do that. And I think that's one of the reasons why this weird movie has stood the test of time. And none of us ever knew that was going to be, but from Catherine Han's amazing, I mean, everybody and a lot of it was in the script, but so much of it was what these amazing people and Will and just, you know, the two of them and Adam Scott, like all these people just brought their own special sauce and, you know, turned it into something, you know, great.

[39:03] Andrea Savage: Yeah. I mean, you're all killing it now. Literally every person in that movie figuratively and maybe literally, I don't know, but I have to say as a leader now yourself, number one on the call sheet, are these things you keep in mind? I mean, from I'm sorry to now congratulations on Perf coming to Fox.

[39:14] Andrea Savage: Thank you. Thank you. To studying government, I believe. I mean, you have a lot of experience, I think, and knowledge about leadership. So yeah. How do you approach?

[39:24] Andrea Savage: I don't know if I had knowledge. Okay. This is the weird, this is where I will, maybe it's very uncomfortable for people when they do compliment me on something and I go, no, but like just right then you very nicely complimented that I have, you know, must with government and leadership skills. And I will immediately go, no, that I don't take that compliment because that when I don't know, I don't deserve that one. I've piecemealed stuff together, but a hundred percent, I definitely have been on sets that are incredible and sets that are less than, and very purposely took what I thought worked and bring them to my own projects and try to learn from both the good and the bad.

[40:15] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I wonder, I mean, you don't obviously have to name names. I mean, you can't, what if this is the gotcha podcast where I'm like, I heard, I just wonder how do you, how do you handle the opposite as a person with kindness, just for yourself, you know, when you've been on sets, when maybe it's, it's going down a path that you don't really appreciate.

[40:33] Andrea Savage: Oh, that's, it depends how off the path it has gone. If it's just disrespectful of people's time and the fact that everyone's showing up ready to go, and then there's somebody who's not, and you're just like, that's crazy. It depends on how much agency I have in the situation. Am I just an actor who's there, who has no say and whatever? How many days am I going to be here? Can I suck it up? Or is this something where I need to, you know, talk about, you know, deal with it? So there's all different ways. Usually I can just be like, I don't love this, but it'll end. Yeah. Unless it's something offensive.

[41:22] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. Yeah. Well, you know, what's going to be perfect is perf, your dream job. I hear people say that multicam literally is the best for actors. And I know you maybe can't share much about the show, but what are you most excited for?

[41:43] Andrea Savage: You know, I'm excited to try my hand at a multicam because I love them, but they're challenging. I just don't know if it's just a dated format or if there is a way to make it like edgy and funny again. So I'm not sure it's going to work, which I think is something I'm excited about and terrified as well. I also haven't really wanted to be funny in a couple of years. It's been a tough five years for the whole world. And then also losing, I'm sorry. And then also something that I haven't really talked about publicly, but I'm fine. You know, I've been sort of dropping it into things recently is that I did go through a separation three years ago. And so a lot of loss, a lot of fear, a lot of stuff where I was like the world and things just going, I don't get what's funny right now. And so I'm excited that it started coming back to me where little things would happen in my life. And I'd be like, oh, I think I need to write that down. That might be a little something. And so I'm excited to feel the little tendrils of wanting to make ha-ha's again.

[42:57] Robert Peterpaul: Make ha-ha's. I love that. That should be your production company name.

[43:04] Andrea Savage: I appreciate your openness. Making ha-ha's. LOL's with a Z. I think that's sort of when the best kind of comedy, talk about a different kind of kindness, kind of comedy can happen is when you're doing it because you want to feel that joy and you're excited and you're trying something different and you're developing so much that I just wanted to touch on. Also some novels. I mean, I'm doing a lot. Like you should be because we need more. But I, yeah, I'm developing something based on a book from a book club that I was in with a mother-daughter book club. I have a film that I wrote with my partner, Joey Slayman for Sony. And then I, she and I wrote another film that we're also in both of those. I'm attached to direct. And then I have another film I'm attached to direct that we're getting cast. But right now in this business, you got to have a thousand things kind of going and then hopeful one, maybe two things happen. It's tough right now. But I'm kind of coming at it from all sides. I feel like I'm like coming back to life a little bit after a couple of years of life. Tough, tough, tough, tough.

[44:05] Robert Peterpaul: Isn't it? I mean, I guess you've definitely probably built up this callus, but I have something somewhere that's just been sitting somewhere for years. And how do you deal with that? I mean, isn't that really hard to kind of celebrate it and then just let it go? I guess that's what this business literally is, but is it something you wrote?

[44:27] Andrea Savage: Yeah. Well, first of all, everyone that would have been involved, I don't know when you did it, it's gone because everyone that's gone. So there's a world where you could read, bring it out as if it's almost fresh because it will be fresh to new people. Or if you have, I mean, there's so many things I've written that didn't go where then I end up pulling a couple scenes out of it and go, oh, remember that story? Oh, that storyline that I had from that film that didn't go. I'm going to pull that out and put it into this because that actually kind of would be a funny set piece or whatever. So I believe in recycling stuff that you like and you know that there's something good there.

[45:02] Robert Peterpaul: Recycle it. Find a new use for it. Don't just let it fall away.

[45:07] Andrea Savage: That's great advice. You know, I mean, and what I was sort of dancing around, what kinds of stories are you drawn to when it's not, you know, sprouted from the tent in your carny brain? Do you find you're drawn to specific stories and books that you want to produce? Is there like a through line or is it just sort of like the weird through line that I'm finding is I tend to like things that are about transition, whether or not you're transitioning from being 20 to 30, from 16, from 15 to 16, to 40 to 50, from 30 to 40. I realized like I really like digging in to how uncomfortable transition is and mining that like new experiences coming at you and you're so against it at first, you don't want it and then like you kind of come to terms with it and then you're like, oh, I actually kind of like this better. So I always like, I don't know, I'm just realizing I like transitions and I also like things where underneath it all, even if you barely see it because it's like a comedy and you're not going to put this right on the top, is to go back to we're all more alike than we are different. Those are the two things that I'm realizing. It doesn't matter if it's like a sci-fi drama that I'm doing or a multi-generational dramedy about whatever, they all kind of have those two things in common.

[46:36] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that common ground, I call it for myself is also it's what we have in common. It's also like the stories that I want to tell and love the most and I'm really excited you're doing that and just hearing you talk. I mean, you seem to know yourself so well, which is incredibly admirable and I wonder with that in mind, how are you kind to yourself? You're doing so much and you balance so much in your brain.

[47:01] Andrea Savage: I feel like I'm pretty kind to myself. I am. I am kinder now, but I think I've never been one of those people that like beat myself up unless I knew that I showed up at something not prepared. Then I would beat myself up back, but I've sort of just been the way I've been in this business and not that I don't get pissed if something doesn't happen or bummed or whatever. I'm not like a saint or some Pollyanna take a shot. Well, we don't know. We don't know. As long as I show up to whatever meeting or audition or project and I'm like, I did the work, then I don't beat myself up. But if I show up to something knowing I half-assed something, I'm like, what the fuck? Why did you do that? I think now I'll give myself more grace of a little bit of like, listen, nobody's perfect. Usually you show up. This time you didn't. Move on. Accept that you didn't do it, but don't beat yourself up over it.

[48:24] Robert Peterpaul: That's really cool. Preparation is sort of an act of self-kindness. I don't think anyone's ever said that before. I like that a lot. To me, treating like doing the right things to set myself up for positive experiences or at least more positive than negative is the way I treat myself with kindness.

[48:43] Andrea Savage: Oh, I love that so much. And I mean, turning that around, how are you kind to others? Do you have a favorite way you like to show kindness?

[48:52] Andrea Savage: I'm not. I'm such an asshole. She is holding a knife up to the camera right now. It's been going on the whole time. And also another knife stabbing my dog.

[49:04] Robert Peterpaul: No, I couldn't even. I know my cat just like pissed itself. My cat is sorry. Yeah, it's okay. Now you're good. How am I kind? It's similar to love language, I guess. I don't know. Kind language. I think because I really do put effort into connecting even in small ways at the grocery store, at the wherever I try actively. And again, I feel like it sounds so dumb and lame and earnest. I know. But I actually really do put effort into making people feel seen and understood and try to go, God, that must be a really hard job you have. Or, oh, that's really cool that you did that. I try to listen and connect.

[50:00] Robert Peterpaul: And OK, I could tell that from listening to your podcast, which was all centered around making new friends. And it seems like you're very good at that, especially when you're on the train with people from all different backgrounds.

[50:13] Andrea Savage: I know what people want. I don't know what people want. What do I want help? Do you get, I guess, like hurt if people don't give you that? Like what you were just describing to others when you feel like people aren't really seeing you or putting effort in? Have you learned to kind of?

[50:29] Andrea Savage: Yes, I definitely get hurt by that. And I've tried to be better at and it's something I say to my daughter all the time. Most likely has nothing to do with you. And I always say to her, I think this and I'm like, no one's thinking about you. Even a fraction of how much you think they are, they're thinking about themselves. So I promise you most of the time this has nothing to do with you. So don't be offended by it. Yeah. And I really try to stick with that. But yeah, I get bummed if I text someone and they don't text me back. I'll be like, oh, wow, I guess I'm not cool enough. I don't know. I thought we were friends. Oh, that's weird. They used to text me when my show was on, you know, and then I'll start to go a little bit in that and go like, oh, were we not really friends now that I'm not? Did they think I could help that? You know, and then I'll kind of go into that space and then go, you know what? Does it matter? Yeah. They'll text me back or they don't. And then we'll move on with our lives.

[51:30] Robert Peterpaul: That's about that's one of the four agreements, right? Don't take it personally. I think that's good that you're teaching that to your daughter. And there was that study about like hair days, if you're having a bad hair day, like 90% of people don't notice because they're too worried about their own hair.

[51:41] Andrea Savage: I did not know that, but a hundred percent. Yeah, it's never happened to me.

[51:46] Robert Peterpaul: So I also don't know that, but it's kind of, it's actually kind of happening to me right now. My hair is like frizzing out. I can't see it clearly enough on this for me to see the texture of your fucking hair, Robert.

[51:57] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I can see clearly now we're going to play a surprise game. Andrea, if you, if you don't mind. Okay. This is called the compliment game. And basically I reached out to someone in your life for a compliment or a loving statement about you. I usually read it to people, but this person sent a voice note, so I'm just going to play it. And then what's the game? Do I guess who it is? You're supposed to guess who it is. And usually I'm going to know. I know. And usually you can do like yes or no questions. And I have some hints here, but I tried to distort the voice and it was just, it wasn't right. I'm very scared about this now.

[52:36] Andrea Savage: Okay. No, no, it wasn't right. It was like, Oh, you're not going to distort the voice. I did try to, and it just, it, it didn't come out correctly. What if you, I know they did a voice thing, but what if you just said what they said? I, that's what I usually do. Don't let me. That's what I usually do. No, no, you're correct. You're correct. That's what I've done for like 200, whatever episodes. But then this one, I didn't, you know what? Let's not call it a game. Let's just call it that. I'm about to get a real nice compliment.

[53:04] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. Well, actually this might actually be the distorted, the distorted voice file. So let's see what's going down. Okay. Here we go. This is so unhinged. I know. Okay. What if it like doesn't play? No, no, here we go. Andrea has it all. She is so amazingly talented in so many ways while also being gorgeous and sexy. She is a brilliant comedian, an incredible writer, a brilliant actress. She creates her own content, which is so inspiring to me. And she's very generous of spirit to help other women, female filmmakers get their voices out there. She has it all. I look up to her so much and I can't wait to see what else she does because she, her voice is just so unique and so brilliant and so funny.

[54:20] Andrea Savage: Yay. That was very, very kind. That was kind. That was very kind. And I really, really take that in and appreciate it.

[54:25] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I love that. I've done the voice note maybe a couple other times. I'm trying to do it more. And usually people are like, I'm going to know. And then they actually don't know, which is why I was like, I'm not going to change the voice. But I think you figured it out.

[54:36] Andrea Savage: I think I figured it. It took me a little bit of a minute because she sounded a little different. I think it's Heather Graham.

[54:41] Robert Peterpaul: It is Heather Graham. She's not related to you, but she is family in a way.

[54:48] Andrea Savage: We did a movie together.

[54:50] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's so kind of her. And I talked about how people showed up for me with projects that were, didn't need to, and they helped me. I do actively, if I can, try to do that for people now. And I did a movie of hers and really was just like, here's another woman, director, writer, star trying to get this done. And I just think it's important now because people did it for me. And we'll probably, I'll probably have to ask them to do it again for me to make sure I also pay that forward in a way. So that was very sweet of her.

[55:37] Andrea Savage: She's the best. Thank you, Heather. And thank you for doing that. That's lovely.

[55:41] Robert Peterpaul: Andrea, I know I have to let you go. I would just appreciate if you could share a tangible kindness tip. So something you would like listeners to do on their own corner of the world to try and make the world a little bit brighter and hopefully build a kinder world together.

[55:57] Andrea Savage: You know, I would love if people just every day said, today, I'm going to make a connection and I'm going to look at someone, doesn't have to be a big moment, doesn't have to be a big person that you're going to spend a lot of your day with, but make it a goal to really see someone make it a goal to really see someone and connect with them and maybe make a joke or maybe just be like, I really, I love your shirt or whatever it is, or be funny, or just take a moment to just see people and not just walk by everybody because it'll make them feel so good. Just to be seen for a second.

[56:50] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I feel so good that I've been seen by you. Thank you, Andrea. I really am such a fan. Now I'm an even bigger fan and I am so grateful that we have someone like you to look up to in this industry who is in a position of leadership because we need more kind leaders who also are a little bit unhinged and funny.

[57:10] Andrea Savage: That's the key. You also have to, you know, don't take yourself so seriously either, even in your kind. Everything's got to be a little bit like, all right, let's relax.

[57:22] Robert Peterpaul: It's balance, right?

[57:24] Andrea Savage: Yeah. We got to unclench our buttholes to bring this baby full circle.

[57:26] Robert Peterpaul: Honestly, we do need to unclench our buttholes.

[57:31] Andrea Savage: But this was great. Thank you so much.

[57:33] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you. And again, congratulations on doing this really cool podcast. It's really great. And I hope that everybody listens and starts just taking a moment to think, what do I think kindness is?

[57:44] Andrea Savage: Thank you. I really appreciate that. That's my goal. I don't have any answers, but like listening to people like you talk, I think is very helpful to other folks out there in this crazy, weird world. Until next time, remember, everything is going to be A-OK.