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[0:00] Desi Oakley: Hi everyone, this is Desi Oakley and you are listening to The Art of Kindness.

[0:11] Robert Peterpaul: Hello beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul and I'm so glad you're here. Hello friends, snow people, elves. I actually played an elf recently this holiday season on The Tonight Show which sounds very surreal and fake to say. Honestly, it was such a blur but I bring it up because it's Christmassy and if you're feeling low you should go to my Instagram and look at these pictures of me in a blonde bowl cut and try not to smile, okay? Because it's unhinged.

It was seriously such a lovely day and everybody over there was so kind. So many kind humans starting with Jimmy Fallon. Any whoozle just thought I would share that. Welcome, welcome, welcome to a very special holiday episode of The Art of Kindness. Don't mind me as I start the fire here and pour myself a mug of hot cocoa. This Merry and Kind episode features a wonderful Broadway star and artist who has a brand new holiday song out. Full disclosure, I can't stop playing it and you're gonna hear me say that again and again. I'm pretty sure Santa will be blasting this track in his sleigh, okay? Joining us by the fire is Desi Oakley. A true self-described Jane of all trades, Desi Oakley brings a little extra sparkle to the A-OK this season.

She's a Broadway performer and recording artist that you've seen light up the stage in Waitress as Jenna on Broadway in the tour on the West End, okay, come on, as Roxy Hart in Chicago. Wicked, Annie, Les Miserables. I mean the list goes on and on with TV appearances including Elsbeth, Gotham, The Gilded Age, of course because that's a Broadway red carpet and she is a Broadway star, and Only Murders in the Building. You've also heard her voice in films like Wicked, which I wish I asked her about now, Dear Evan Hansen, Tick Tick Boom, and Spirited. That's a fun one to watch this season. Beyond the stage and screen, Desi is a heartfelt mental health advocate, a music educator, and an NYC-based artist who also coaches.

I know friends that have gone to her and had the best time. As I mentioned, she's got a brand new holiday single out called Christmas on the Coast, and we will get into that and so much more. We're so grateful to share a little time with her. I'm also so beyond grateful to share a little time this holiday season with you, friend. I wish you and yours a very happy day, happy life, happy end to 2025. I hope your year was kind. Stay in touch as we celebrate the season on social media at Art of Kindness Pod and at Rob Peterpaul. You can also visit our brand new YouTube page as we're trying to put full video episodes up on there, you know, so you can check out all the positively delightful moments from the show. Now without further ado, the delightful Desi Oakley.

[4:12] Robert Peterpaul: I'm so excited, Desi. This is our Christmas episode. Welcome to the Art of Kindness.

[4:17] Desi Oakley: I'm so excited to be here.

[4:19] Desi Oakley: Merry Christmas.

[4:21] Desi Oakley: Happy holidays.

[4:23] Desi Oakley: Happy everything, everybody. I know I'm so happy right now. I'm delighted to see you. It was a while back, but I did meet you briefly at the Jimmy Awards and I got to kind of see you coaching up front. And I was just so blown away by you and how you talked to the kids and treated everybody with kindness and gave everybody so much love and attention. So I just appreciate you being you and I can't wait to unpack all the views of you today.

[4:49] Desi Oakley: That is really meaningful to me, I have to tell you. Thank you. The Jimmy Awards is one of my favorite things to ever exist. And it's such a magical time. And oh, thank you. Thank you for saying that.

[5:01] Robert Peterpaul: Well, thank you for accepting it so well. Because one of the first questions I always ask on here is how are you at accepting compliments? And I feel like that was a masterclass.

[5:10] Desi Oakley: Let me tell you, let me tell you. I think I have something to say about that, actually. I think that it is important, even if it doesn't come naturally for us, I think it's important for us to strive to accept compliments because holding, I think about it, this is a dear friend of mine called it this, holding gold. So if someone is going to hand you gold, which is what you just handed me, a beautiful compliment about the way that I'm kind and the way that I see young people, especially young artists, that is gold to me. And it's kind of my responsibility in this hot take to start out our gorgeous time together.

[5:50] Robert Peterpaul: I love it.

[5:51] Desi Oakley: It's important that I acknowledge what you said to me as gold, whether or not just to even just say, like, just to hold it, just to hold the gold you gave me, because not everybody is in the season of life to be like, yes, I completely agree. I'm nailing it. Like, we don't always feel like that. But I just think it was I do. I think it's important. So I've worked on that because sometimes what happens is if you've thought really hard about something you want to say to me as a compliment, or as I see that as gold, and it could so easily be like, no, and all of a sudden I'm tearing away, taking away what you've created, which was the gold. Anyway, so-

[6:31] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's so beautiful. I'm picturing, I'm like, what is it? Little Rumpelstiltskin, we're all just turning the wheels. No, seriously, I'm going to carry that with me because I ask this question on every episode, unless I black out and forget. No one said something so tangible like that, which I think that's going to reframe how I look at compliments now, because I've learned to say thank you when I'm not, you know, getting too muppety, but holding gold that like puts a whole new light on it. So I really appreciate that.

[6:59] Desi Oakley: It just feels like it crystallizes this, like the energy of it. And I have to shout out my friend and teacher, Mary Joanna Grisso, with which this concept comes from. So anyway.

[7:08] Robert Peterpaul: I love that so much. And to continue the gold tradition here, the second part of that compliment is I feel like you're now a gold star on top of a Christmas tree with this new Christmas song.

[7:17] Desi Oakley: Oh my God.

[7:19] Robert Peterpaul: Desi, with interviews, I like to be prepared. I read every book, I go see every show, I watch every movie. I genuinely am going to listen to this song every Christmas. I think this song is so phenomenal.

[7:32] Desi Oakley: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I have to shout out the people that made this song happen. The writers of this song, Dan Diaz, Martin Storrow, unbelievable. And the whole idea is that they are New York-based and LA-based. So they're writing about Christmas on the coast from like both sides. Frankie Daly from National Alliance for Musical Theatre, NAMT, as we call it, connected all of us. They were searching for the sound of this song, and they were like, Desi Oakley, ding, ding, ding. And I feel so honored to sing this piece. And it is so, so good. Thank you so much for saying that. Look, they sent me a demo of it. We all got connected in September, and it was fast. It was a fast process.

And they were like, you're the missing piece. Essentially, they had done all the production. The production, Dan Diaz, it's stunning. It's stunning. So when they sent me a demo, I'm used to getting scratch demos. I got this high-level recording of the way that the music is actually going to be. And I was like, I would be a fool to say no to this. It's brilliant. It's just so great. And then I was sort of the missing piece to it. And I was able to record it. I recorded it here in New York. I really, as a songwriter myself, I try to, you know, it's important for me to honor the integrity of what they've written. And I hope that I did. And then they let me play a little bit. And they let me, they were like, do a couple passes where you just like, so the couple that there's like this little moment, this like, this like little moment where I like, that's all they were like, just play, just play.

So I had like, a lot of fun and a lot of that went into the final cut. So good. Thank you so much for doing it. We have had a blast with the response. Yeah, Robert, people are kind of like, it's synced to like so many playlists on Spotify. I mean, oh my gosh, that's you deserve it. Because you never know. I admire you as a person and a performer. So I was excited either way. But you're like, I'm gonna listen to the song. And like, you know, I hope I like it. Totally. Like I was blasting it. And my wife came in and like started dancing. And she's the first she's the kindest person. But she'd be like, can you turn that down? You know what I mean? Totally. It's so good. And I want to work our way back there.

So we're going to go back to the song. And I want to hear unpack everything. You're certainly the star in the tree. You're Jesus in the nativity. I mean, I could go on and on. But I do want to understand a bit more what makes you tick and lead with such love in the world. And so I would appreciate if you could share right now in this moment, what is your definition of kindness? And how do you think it's evolved over the years since you grew up in Kansas?

[10:14] Desi Oakley: Okay, it's a small question. Just a tiny idea. Um, okay. Yes. I love this question. Kindness is hard to define, because I think it takes so many shapes. And kind is different than nice, which is different than different than good. I'm like, I'm literally going into the woods over here. Totally just like I was walking right into it. But I feel like, uh huh. Right. I think that kindness for me was taught inherently through the ways that kindness can come across in, I would say, social situations. So for instance, manners and politeness. Okay. So a lot of people in Kansas have these qualities about them, because it is the way of life in these communities, in this part of the world. It is odd to not wave to your neighbor.

It's odd to not speak to someone behind you in the line at the checkout. It's odd. It's more so the way of life. Okay, so I have to credit this. Now, is this kindness? Sure. Some people in New York, I've lived in New York almost 15 years. I don't know if they would say that all those scenarios are kind, right? They might be annoying. They might be overstepping. Sure. So I just want to say that the way of life where I grew up, which is when I was learning how to become a human being on the floating rock that we're on, I learned to look people in the eye. This is the way we talk to people. And a lot of the time, that is a manifestation of kindness. Even just the other day, I was actually at a store yesterday in the city, over here in my neighborhood, and I was checking out and we were talking about something and it

[12:18] Desi Oakley: You're not from here, right, they say. And I'm like, well, I always say, well, when you've paid rent this long, you call yourself a New Yorker, right? But like, I said, what is it? Why did you ask that? He said, well, you know, you're nice. You're nice. And I think that's interesting. I think that there are a ton of kind New Yorkers, but I think my definition of kindness since growing up in Kansas has changed because it's not just that. It's not just politeness. It's not just manners. And if you want to say it based off of maybe what those things are trying to portray, the eye contact and the casual conversation, I think it's connection. I think kindness is connection. And I think that that's how I would describe it now. And I think that's why I try to choose it.

[13:10] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. And I appreciate that so much. And I think that's where miscommunications and disconnection comes into play is when we have different definitions of kindness. Even just talking about Kansas versus New York versus other countries. I mean, you might think you're being kind and then someone else might perceive that as like, why is she staring at me or asking about my life or whatever it is? So I think it's so fascinating, kindness, like when you really unpack it. And I wonder for you, who's sort of like walking down this beautiful yellow brick road on Broadway and beyond. I mean, you're certainly a Jane of all trades to quote your website, which everybody should check out, by the way. Is there one act of kindness that you feel like changed your trajectory? I'm sure there were a lot, but what comes to mind? Like, what's the first thing that first thing that came to mind?

[13:58] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Wayne Bryan, producing director of Music Theater of Wichita, the community. No, excuse me. What for a lot of people would be a community theater for me was a very professional, renowned regional theater in my backyard. Yeah. Producing director. I was a kid. I grew up being the kid in the shows. And the leads of these shows were like, I was like sitting on Kelly O'Hara's lap. Like, this is like, I was a child and I was stomping around with like absolute A-list Broadway stars. Yeah. Who would be coming in to Wichita to do these shows because the contract was great because they treated everyone with kindness and because the audiences would go nuts for it. They love musical theater. And that's beautiful.

You don't always get really great productions with kindness behind the scenes. Oh, and actually they won't hire you unless like you're a good person. It's like it's really like then they deep dive. They love that. They were like the original source of and what I learned from this is like a reference. They would absolutely pick up the phone and call and they would not ask, can they hit the high notes? They would not be asking about how, what their extension is on their leaps. It was asking about who they are and their integrity as a person. Yeah. Which is more important. And I've been on the other end now as I get older, I'm sure you have a bunch in getting those calls. So you're like, it is really true.

They do ask. It's a real deal. And so Wayne Bryan, not only, so this is kindness in a gigantic way and almost it's like, okay, kindness manifested as oof, like support, love, mentorship, times a billion. But essentially he's the reason I have, he's the reason we're on this call right now. He's the reason we're talking. He's the reason for my career. He's the reason I live in New York. He's the reason I married my husband. Like ultimately it all happened because of this act of love, support, mentorship, kindness. And he basically took me under his wing and he said, I was 14 and I had sort of grown up being a kid and in this environment. And he said, I think it's time that you auditioned for the professional company.

And I said, I don't know how to do that. And also I'm 14. And also, are you just telling me this because you want me to? And he was like, let's, let's break this down. I'll help you find a song. I'll help you prepare it. And then I think you should try this. I think we should, I think you should try this. And he dedicated time, his time, his energy, his effort toward preparing me for this audition. I went and I will never forget this moment. I went to this audition and it was like just him and the accompanist and me in the room. And they're, you know, at a camera, like they were like filming it. And I was like, and he looked at me and he goes, hi, Desi. Welcome. I said, thank you. And he goes, what song will you be singing today?

And I looked at him. I was like, I feel like this was the moment I had two choices. The first choice could have been like, Wayne, you know what, you know what song I'm singing. You picked it. You helped me repair it. And the second choice, which was the choice I made, was that I introduced myself. I introduced the song. I went over to the accompanist as he taught me and I sang the song and he offered me a professional contract that summer at 14 years old. Wow. Alongside college kids. And being the person to learn how to build the plane while it's flying, learning as the sponge, learning on the go. It's the whole reason. I don't even know how to describe it. It's that alignment that led to like truly everything. So that's the first thing that came to mind, my friend.

[17:34] Robert Peterpaul: I appreciate that. And don't you feel like it's the thing, right? The process is the thing. I mean, there's beautiful production photos of you in Waitress or Wicked or whatever it is, but that's not what you remember. No. Being in the rehearsal room and then being on stage and then being backstage with the people. It's like the process and the learning is the thing. And I do want to shout out really quickly and just doing a little bit of a deep dive here, your grandma, because it seems like your grandma spawned that like one layer down in the onion.

[18:01] Desi Oakley: Thank you so much for saying that. Oh, my God. Exactly. The true heart of it is Eleanor, my grandmother, who may she rest in peace. This woman was a legend. Let me tell you what she did. Please do. I have many first cousins, big family, right? On that side, like, maybe like it's 15 or something. It's like a lot of us. We're the same. You see this big, big, big family. She bought all of us, all of us, one whole year of piano lessons when we came of age in order to introduce us to the instrument, which she then said should teach us a lot of things like empowerment and discipline and musicality. Wow. I was the only one to then study 13 more years later. Everyone showed up. They did it. They did their year.

And I was the only one that continued studying after that. Which probably made her so happy. Yeah. Till the day, truly her whole life till the day she died, she knew her impact. She knew her impact at on me. And she knew that that decision shaped, shapeshifted my whole life. It's exactly right. Oh, my God, Robert, thank you so much for knowing this. And then and she was the one who introduced me to go to that theater, music theater, Wichita, which is where I met Wayne Bryan. Yeah. She said to all the current kids, you know, she introduced us to what musical theater is. We would watch the movies, you know, The Sound of Music. And we would talk about musicals. And then she would say, look, there's an outlet for this. It's really amazing. All of you need to go. You don't have to audition if you're not if you're not going to audition. That's okay. Just go see it. Just go see theater. She I'm telling you a legend.

[19:55] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. I got a shout out my nanny too who introduced me to the theater while we're here. But certainly it's like you could dig even further, right? Like it's like who inspired her to do that? And then who inspired them to do that? It's like kindness kind of is generational. And I thought that was so cool. When I looked at your story, I know we don't have too much time together. And I could certainly spend it all talking about just your theater career, you know, just Broadway, the national tours, the West End, you've kind of done it all. But since it's the holidays, I feel like people might be curious. And you could take a moment to think about this if you want. But what is Christmas like on Broadway? What is Christmas like for a performer specifically working during this holiday time? Do you have experience with that?

[20:28] Desi Oakley: A thousand percent. I was doing Annie on Broadway. We either had a show on Christmas Eve or on Christmas night. Like it was it's a show about Christmas and it's about the kids. Like it's imperative. And people are literally people flew to New York City to see Annie on Broadway. It's a big one. Yeah. It's a big one. The Jane Lynch one. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. I have amazing Jane Lynch stories from that. I would have. Okay. So it was either Christmas Eve or Christmas night, depending on like when our show was. And I ate Chinese food on the floor of my New York City apartment, like by myself, because I was like, this is what Christmas is this year. Because my family had their traditions. They had already seen the show.

I could not leave. My family lived too far away. Sure that there were people doing things, but most people had their plans. I was like, you know what? I'm tired because we're doing all these shows. I want to be my best self. I want to get some sleep. I just sort of want to, I remember all the plans either required a small amount of travel or the timing didn't quite work. And I remember that. And I was like, and there wasn't sadness. It was just like, this is what this year looks like. Yeah. And I know that so many performers have seasons, have Christmases where they're, you know, it's so funny. I was actually talking about the lyrics of Christmas on the Coast. And because I, you know, I broke down the lyric, like, you know, I like was like, what is this song about?

There we go. It's the work. It's the work. Oh, because of Eleanor. And I was like, oh, it's this energy of like the final chorus being like, well, Christmas is, you know, when I'm with you. Like I could be on this coast. I could be in Central Park. I could be, you know, in the Venice canals. Or really I could just be, I could be with you and that's Christmas. You know, and I think that especially Broadway performers and folks that have demanding jobs that are performing when people, when the masses are resting, that's when they are performing. Yeah. Right. The weekends, the masses rest and we perform exactly right. You get to enjoy the show with your family. And then evening night, right. The masses are resting after their work day and we are entertaining them.

Right. And I think that I think many, many people in that position have had Christmases and seasons where they're like, oh, it's just a little different this year. And it's beautiful. And I think I think that that can be beautiful. Also, all feelings welcome. Right. That can be frustrating. That can be hard. That can be disappointing. Yeah. I remember my particular experience was like. This is the dream.

[23:01] Desi Oakley: I was also like young. Well, you strike me someone as someone to and maybe you've worked on this, but you strike me as someone who and I sort of feel this way sometimes about myself. It's not perfect, but that can have fun with yourself. Like you strike me as someone who doesn't mind alone time and like you like like you seem like you're very kind to yourself in that way.

[23:18] Robert Peterpaul: I have worked on that. Thank you for saying that. I have worked on that. I have worked. I found that it's very important. But yes, it's something that I've always I've always been striving to do is to find kindness with myself and to take situations like that. Right. So if I can bring in kindness, which I love that we're already defining and crystallizing so many different your original question, which is like, what what does kindness mean? What is the definition? We're already doing that by showing all these different ways of how kindness manifests, which is really cool. But yeah, taking a situation like that and being like, OK, I guess we've got two choices. We can kind of be sad or freak out or be like, here we go. We're having Chinese food on Christmas in my apartment and this is going to be great because I'm on Broadway and this is my dream. You know, I love that so much.

[24:02] Desi Oakley: Yeah. And it's very New York to it. Like it's a Chinese food Christmas. That's the second Christmas song next year. Maybe a Chinese food Christmas. Love it. OK, you heard it here first, folks. Yeah, good. I'm writing the lyrics. No, I'm just kidding. Actually, I love I love anything. But since it is Christmastime, yeah, I thought we could play a little flash around if you're down for a game.

[24:16] Robert Peterpaul: Love a game. OK, well, you know what, Desi? It's nearly Christmastime. Do something crazy. Don't want to spend a year wondering what could have been.

[24:35] Robert Peterpaul: It's nearly Christmas time and in honor of your magical new song, which everyone just got, it only takes a taste of, we want to do something crazy and ask you about your holiday favorites. So I'm ready. I'll throw out a phrase and you respond with your favorite as fast as you can.

[24:51] Desi Oakley: Okay, I'm excited and scared. Okay, I'm also scared and excited. So let's see what happens, everybody. Christmas movie.

[25:02] Desi Oakley: Oh, I was gonna say Elf, but it's the Grinch.

[25:05] Robert Peterpaul: Good choice. Christmas character.

[25:08] Desi Oakley: Okay, that's so funny because they're the same. But when I think Christmas character, I think the Grinch. I agree. And there's like, there's 87,000 Grinches this year. I don't know what's going on. I mean, listen, listen, if it ain't broke, I don't know. Like the Walmart commercials. We got Walton Goggins. We got all this stuff. It's crazy. Okay, because of the waitress of it all, I'm gonna ask you about a Christmas pie. What's your favorite pie?

[25:32] Desi Oakley: Yes. I'm gonna go apple, as long as it's cinnamony. And bonus points if there's like a crumble on top. Crumble. Yes, we need the butter crumble. Love that so much. Okay, Christmas cookie.

[25:42] Desi Oakley: Oh, sugar cookie. And it's gotta be in a shape that's been cookie cuttered.

[25:51] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, sugar butter frosting. Cookie cutter. I love that. The third single, you're gonna have a whole Christmas album by the time we're done here. Okay. Christmas decoration.

[26:03] Desi Oakley: Okay, I love a garland.

[26:07] Desi Oakley: And there's so many different types of garland. Yeah, I love a garland. And if you can put the lights in the garland, it feels elite.

[26:11] Robert Peterpaul: And it does feel elite. Yeah, that's like next level. Okay, Christmas tree type, because there's a lot of trees as well.

[26:17] Desi Oakley: Okay, I've always, I think I always grew up with a big tree, because that's just like what happened in our house. Yeah, because I think two things we like had a cat and the cat would like eat the tree.

[26:28] Robert Peterpaul: We're experiencing that now.

[26:32] Desi Oakley: Yeah. Okay. And then totally. And then it was sort of like, I honestly just like want to say shout out to like my mom who didn't want to have to clean up all the, you know, I don't know, like my parents didn't want to deal with like the vacuuming of the around the tree. I think it's okay. I think it's great. I really do not I really see both sides.

[26:53] Robert Peterpaul: I do too. I also have come to learn that real trees are dangerous. Like it can light your house on fire.

[26:57] Desi Oakley: Okay, that is something that we could talk about for sure. Wow. And topical for both coasts. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. I think this is great. I obviously make the best choice for you. But I think that's good information. Bye. Okay, Christmas ornament. Do you have like an ornament that's really close to your heart?

[27:17] Desi Oakley: So my husband and I, we collect them everywhere we go. So the tree should look like by the end of a certain season, it should be like, wow, this is filled with like, every places that we that we've been. And occasionally we have forgotten and we've like gone to the airport and been like, Oh, no. And we've got like a really dumb ornament, but it doesn't matter because it was like from the place. I think there was only one time where we actually forgot and we like Amazon did and we were like, tell no one. But you know, what's fun is I don't actually remember which location that was. So we'll never know.

[27:45] Robert Peterpaul: There you go. That's what we do with magnets. And we did Amazon. I remember it was California, but that's okay. It's understanding. It's okay. It's okay. I understand. It's fine. But this is perfectly aligned for my next one, which is Christmas place. What's your ideal place to spend Christmas? Do you have one?

[27:57] Desi Oakley: Oh, I just the person like the song? Maybe. No, but but I do. I do think that that Christmas time is absolutely magical in New York City. It's absolutely magical. It's so buzzy. It's so electric. It's so joyful. I just it's sorry, but the hype is real. The hype is real.

[28:17] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, absolutely. And there's a merry-go-round this year. Have you seen it? There's like a Christmas merry-go-round they added somewhere.

[28:20] Desi Oakley: No, I should. Not like the Bryant Park one, but there's like a big one in the middle of a street somewhere. I saw something like on Instagram, so it might be AI, but I'm pretty sure we can we can look that up later.

[28:28] Robert Peterpaul: I'm gonna be researching that. I will be researching that. Yep. Okay. Okay. Christmas song besides your song.

[28:36] Desi Oakley: Okay, I was gonna say Christmas on the Coast. Stream it wherever you listen to music. Please tune in. I'm obsessed. Okay, it's Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas, Judy Garland.

[28:44] Robert Peterpaul: So good. So good. Thank you so much for playing. You win. You win a brand new Christmas song top in the charts. I'm trying to find my clap. I can't find my clap soundboard. I'm like, I'm very unhinged with a soundboard. Thank you. We could clap for ourselves. That was so fun. Oh, I'm so glad. I had a great time. That was like so not intimidating. I was I was scared, but there was no. Oh my gosh. No, no. The only reason to play a game is to have fun, I think, and to win. No, but also to have fun. Like I said, I genuinely love Christmas on the Coast, and I'm gonna blast it every year. Thank you. Y'all nailed the nostalgic feeling. And I just. Dan Diaz talked about that.

[29:21] Desi Oakley: Like, is it inspired in the beginning, at least by Wonderful Christmas Time? It has that like totally in the beginning, the twinkle. Yes. And and the way that it went down was Dan Diaz like wrote this like hook this idea and sent it to Martin. Martin walked around the reservoir of Central Park and like played it out and was thinking about his time when him and his wife was like what they always would go to the like canals in California. And they would they would like dream of it. And then he was like, but I'm in Central Park right now. And this has also been my dream, because when he was younger, he would dream about living there. And then him and his wife, when they were like newlyweds, they ended up living on the canals.

They were always like, who lives there? Who could ever live there? That'd be so cool. Like it'd be our dream. How could someone like ever? And they like did it. So they made a dream come true. And then they eventually moved to New York, which was to pursue their other dream, which was to live here. So he was like, so all of that was what inspired the lyric. So it is really, really rooted in like, what they like, what both of them were experiencing both with.

[30:43] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, and it is based like Dan Diaz, brilliant musician, like, oh my God, he like, he has his hands like all over like, TV, film, just absolutely insanely talented. These two writers insane. And so but that was sort of like the collaboration and like the the vibe of it so that that nostalgia is spot on both in the lyric and in the music.

[30:50] Desi Oakley: Oh, I'm so glad you I'm so glad you picked that up. And the like, coastal vibe, the relaxed vibe. And like, you know, there's now Christmas songs are every genre. Like it's no longer there was the, you know, the time of the majority of the most popular Christmas songs. That was the popular time of that era, right? Like the Bing Crosby, the Rosemary Clooney era, like all of that was what that was popular music then. So now underneath the tree and Santa tell me is our version of that.

[31:17] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And it's so hard to have a Christmas song that pops amongst the pantheon of Christmas songs that I want to get into. But I wondered one thing I really appreciate about the song that I think you probably brought to it in a way is that you can feel the story arc. And I think a lot of these songs like I'll have a blue Christmas. Okay, it's really sad. But in this one, to me, I got that like, there's a nostalgia, there's a sad feeling. And then this person takes action, and is inspired to sort of like, take a step and move which we need in these times, you know, I love it.

[31:51] Desi Oakley: I'm so glad you got that. I really appreciate the fact that you that you that you got all that.

[31:57] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I'm glad I'm like, this could be wrong.

[32:00] Desi Oakley: No, but spot on. How do y'all approach stitching your sort of like flavor onto the Christmas quilt of songs?

[32:05] Desi Oakley: Yeah, you know, I think we're that what kind of conversations did you have? I feel like I feel like it's basically this idea of there's no right or wrong anymore. We've got to just do we've got to do this because there's something for everyone in as far as I think that in that way in all art, but especially in music. Like it's appealing to some people who maybe have they they listen to the Mariah Carey once and they're like, Thank you. That's great for my season. I've like hit my quota. We're nailing it. And now I'm ready for something a little bit different. And so I think that was the goal. That is the desire. And then we've been really, honestly, pleasantly surprised by riding the wave of it.

So seeing the response and like, putting it out was like, Oh, my God, we have to do a music video. Like we're talking about different versions of it, like acoustic versions of it later. Like we're there's like, we are so happy to hear that the response was so positive, which affirms exactly, you know, what we all were thinking when it comes to like, let's put this vibe out there. Let's see what this is. There's no such thing as like a traditional Christmas song anymore. Like this is let's do this. And so and then to have it so well received was like, I'm we're through the Spotify playlist. I mean, that's how things really take off. Congratulations. That's incredible.

[33:19] Desi Oakley: We keep getting you know, we're on the like, we're all in this group thread. And oh, yeah, you know, Frankie Daly through National Alliance for Musical Theatre, which is how we all met Frankie's the one who connected us. Yes. And Frankie was like, I think I have the perfect voice for you anyway. And then we all met and we got on a Zoom and we were like, like, it's just been so joyful, so aligned. But yeah, we've noticed we're like, there's there's just hundreds and hundreds of playlists that it's added to. So it just goes to show it's really cool. Like, and it's a really beautiful message for me. I think the takeaway is like, if you put art out, do it. Don't wait. Don't wait. Don't wait. Like, put it out like it shows you release it. Don't overthink it. Just do it. And like the people that are ready to to hear this song and love it will and it's really cool.

[34:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And that's a testament to you, too, because when I look at your career in different interviews, I've listened to you. You always talk about trying and a lot of people are like, I don't use the word try. I'm like kind of too cool to try. But trying is how you achieve. Like if you didn't try, you wouldn't have ended up on Broadway. You wouldn't have had this song. It's like a lot of people call it a try out. Literally, there's like an out of town try out. And audition is another word for a try out. Yeah. So I appreciate that about you, because as we go into the new year, you know, everybody, we want to try new things. And I can't wait to see how this song literally forgive the metaphor, but snowballs. I mean, I'm inspired to maybe we can talk with our network like next year, we could try and like reunite people who are on different coasts. I don't know. Like I'm obsessed in this song.

[34:58] Desi Oakley: Oh, I love that. I thank you for it. Yeah. Thank you. And yes, to all of that. We say yes. Open. Okay. And yes, I love it. Yes. And I I wonder what you say to yourself when you're in these situations when you're in the recording booth, because I've heard you talk about like, you know, self talk. And I feel like when you're laying down a track, you know, it's permanent, whether it's a song like this or one you've written. Do you struggle with perfectionism, insecurities?

[35:26] Desi Oakley: I do. And I don't perfection. I'm recovering perfectionist. I'm a navigating perfectionist, always navigating this, because it doesn't I don't think that perfection and art go well together at all. It's just like oil and water. And oh, it's it is something that I feel that if we can soften it, it's hard to make it go away completely. But if we can soften the perfection and we can see more like, okay, why do I want this to be perfect? Oh, I care. Excellent. That's good. Okay, why do I need this to be perfect? Because I want people to like it. Amazing. What a great desire. So like, it's almost like what if we can try to see what we're what we're achieving as not perfection, but as again, like, as you said that I've mentioned that you've gotten for me, like the try of just like, let's just throw the spaghetti against the wall. Let's just like, that's the action. So yes, we can't, you can't edit something that doesn't exist. Oof, I'm always learning that one.

[36:32] Desi Oakley: Wow. Oh, wait, that that just hit me. Sorry. That took me a second.

[36:36] Robert Peterpaul: No, no, but that's a big one for me.

[36:53] Robert Peterpaul: Let's keep exploring. And lastly to this, you can edit something all day long. You can edit something for 10 years. You can edit something for 50 years. You can then leave this earth and never put it out. So you also have to put the editing hat down eventually and then become the, well, I'm releasing this person. Wise words. Yeah. And you're like, here we go. And so, so sure. I look back at like my old albums and I was like, oh yeah, I could have spent five more blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but could have, should have, would have. It's out in the world. Let's move on. Let's keep creating. Then if I've got more ideas, Des, if you're listening to your own music and you've got more ideas, then write the ideas and keep going. So that's the vibe. That's the vibe.

[38:39] Desi Oakley: That was beautiful advice. And I love that you, that you use the word soften, because I picture like softening butter. And if you don't do that, you can't make the cookie. Yeah. And also, come on, sugar, butter, flour. Sugar, butter, flour. I know. I'm like, I didn't even, I had a question, but I scratched it. You're actually nailing it though, but you're nailing it with all of the references a lot.

[39:00] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you so much. I appreciate that. That's really good. But I love that word soften too, because like, I feel like, oh, it's just not everything that, you know, we have this idea, especially like, and it's artists like fix it. Okay. Then fix it. Take the note. Let's fix it. It's like, well, fix, fix doesn't also really go well in this arena.

[39:13] Desi Oakley: Yeah.

[39:13] Robert Peterpaul: So how about, how about, how about hold, soften, navigate, learn to ebb and flow with, right. So those are the kind of the words that I've tried. Be impeccable with your word.

[39:25] Desi Oakley: Or try.

[39:25] Robert Peterpaul: Come on, four agreements.

[39:27] Desi Oakley: Right behind me. I try.

[39:29] Robert Peterpaul: On my shelf behind me. Everybody, we're not getting a cut. We promise.

[39:33] Desi Oakley: It's so true. And also the best intentions one. That's when I've, I've struggled with a lot because I assume people have the best intention, but then like, oh no, it's the not take anything personally. That's the one. Okay. That's the tough one for me sometimes, but this is not about me. This is not about me. I mean, there is a wonderful story. Sorry that you tell about Waitress. And I really wanted to ask you about it, but you tell the story so wonderfully on this podcast with your Umich former teacher and someone else I'm forgetting the name.

[40:01] Desi Oakley: Corpman Westfall.

[40:02] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. Everyone check that out. Cause you tell this crazy story. There's a lot of themes of kindness with diving into a West End debut from, I think you started like it was a Saturday to a Monday you were on. Correct. And so everybody check that out. But before we go, I have another surprise game, Desi that I hope you're down to play. It's not Christmas. Okay. This is the game we love to play. It's called the compliment game. And basically I reached out to someone in your life for a loving statement or a compliment about you. I am going to play it. Yes. This is a voice note. I usually, I either read them, but I'm trying to get more. I don't know. I'm trying to change it up and you just have to guess who said it. I did. Yeah. I'm going to hear their voice.

[40:42] Desi Oakley: Oh, okay. So, okay. Okay. Cause I was like, you're going to hear that. Is someone in my life? Yeah. This is the best thing that's ever happened to me. Oh, yay. Okay. And I haven't even heard it yet. It's a, it's a good one. It's actually a really good one. Sometimes I get like a sentence, which is fine. Cause I asked it to be short, but this person, I might cry. Okay. I know. I hope the voice isn't too silly and doesn't take away from the sentiment, but are you ready? But you have disguised the voice. I see. Okay. Okay. I'm ready. I tried to disguise the voice. Okay. Okay. This is called the compliment game. Everyone's beautiful in their own way. It's the compliment game.

[41:24] Desi Oakley: Talk about needing to rerecord something that's been like five years ago. That was fire. Also very, very unexpected. I was, that was really fun. Okay. Love that. I love that. Bless up. Okay. Now presenting your compliment. I think, I hope this is the disguised version. Okay.

[41:43] Voice note: It's hard to pick one thing about Desi Oakley to admire because she is just such an extraordinary human. But one thing I have always said about Desi is that she is a full out human. You will never catch Desi Oakley half-assing anything.

[42:03] Desi Oakley: I know who this is.

[42:08] Voice note: If she's committed to something, she's going to give you everything she's got. And that's in her relationships. She's a full out wife. She's a full out friend. She goes above and beyond for all of her people. She is a full out performer and artist and teacher.

[42:28] Desi Oakley: She said full out.

[42:30] Voice note: She does not, but even back when we were babysitting full time, I used to say to her, you're not just going to be a babysitter. You're going to be the best babysitter there is. She just does not do anything without her full heart and soul. And it is a gift to us all. And it is beautiful and very inspiring to witness and be a part of.

[43:06] Voice note: So, yes, that is one thing, which if I can narrow it down to one thing, I would say Desi Oakley is a full out human being filled with love. And there is no limit to her love.

[43:38] Desi Oakley: I mean, Caroline Bowman, Star of Smash. I need to recover.

[43:47] Robert Peterpaul: That was so, also bonus points because Frankie connected us. So shout out to Frankie. There's always like another layer to it. And then I think she got it last night and I like put in a friendly reminder this morning and she was like, oh, I didn't know you needed it today. So she literally like whipped that out and like, oh, I need to recover. And I was like, oh, I need to recover.

[44:06] Desi Oakley: Whipped that out and like must have dropped everything.

[44:09] Robert Peterpaul: We have been best friends for so long. She is, I was a maid of honor in her wedding. Like, this is like, she is exactly right. And she, you need to have her on here. This is she, she, she, her, her bones are kind. Her, the cells of her body are kind is kindness.

[44:31] Desi Oakley: Oh my God. That just truly, I will never forget that. That was when she said full out human, I was like, that's my girl. I love that. I'll, I'll send you the voice notes. It's so meaningful that thank you so much for that. What a gift.

[44:47] Robert Peterpaul: I was going to ask you about her too, but I mean, you're such a kind person that you already said it. And I'm one of the biggest regrets of my life is that I apparently didn't get to see her in Sunset. Did you? Because I heard she like smashed it.

[44:57] Desi Oakley: Oh, no pun intended.

[44:59] Robert Peterpaul: I didn't even mean to use the word smash.

[46:01] Desi Oakley: I was there with the best seat in the house next to her husband and her mom. And we transcended the entire theater transcended. It was a moment in time. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was transcendent. That's all I could tell you without a whole other podcast episode dedicated to it. That is what, that is what I would say. It was yeah. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

[46:27] Robert Peterpaul: Well, when she comes on the pod, maybe we'll do a little surprise where you're like in the zoom waiting room.

[46:30] Desi Oakley: Oh my God. Well, now we have to, we have to do something to, to, to, to like repay her for the gorgeous. Oh my God. That was so precious. Thank you.

[46:41] Robert Peterpaul: And you're so precious. And I know I got to let you go, but as we kind of speak to you till midnight, I'm just saying I could be here till midnight. Let's do it. You are such a gift. Thank you for this and for creating a space for this. I'm serious. It's just amazing. Like amazing. This has just been such a joy. Wow. This has been such a joy for me to open door, come back anytime. Okay, great.

[47:06] Desi Oakley: And I would just love if we could sort of cap this off by you sharing a tangible kindness tip. So something you want everybody out there listening to do as we kind of move into this new year and hopefully build a kinder world.

[47:16] Robert Peterpaul: I love this. Thank you for this. Okay. I'm going to say that it all, I think every, all the ideas that came flooding to my mind right away, they might all start better with slowing down. So maybe we just, we slow down a judgment or we slow down to find eye contact with someone or we slow down to be gentler with ourselves. We slow down to listen. You know, maybe I just, that's the one thing that sort of came to my mind that I'm, that I'm hoping to work toward a little bit more on this in this new year that I, maybe we just slow. And then in that, in that space where the slowness comes, we'll have more options. We have more, more space for the connection, the love, the kindness, the abundance, the happiness, et cetera.

[48:10] Desi Oakley: I needed to hear that. So thank you for that. I'm going to take that with me as I go film with self-tape SOS. Everybody send good vibes.

[48:20] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. Sending good vibes to you. Absolutely. And I, and which by the way, Desi coaches on. So everybody go check out Desi, check out your new song. I could ask you a million more questions, but I think I'll just say, thank you for being you. I really mean that. And I'm so grateful. We have you to not only watch on stage, but look up to off stage. So appreciate you friend.

[48:39] Desi Oakley: It goes really far with me. Thank you.

[48:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. And let's let you play us out. Why not? Right?

[48:43] Desi Oakley: Should we?

[48:43] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[48:44] Desi Oakley: Okay.

[48:57] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. Thank you.

[49:00] Robert Peterpaul: Until next time, remember everything is going to be A-okay.