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[0:01] Heather Graham: Hi, this is Heather Graham, and you're listening to The Art of Kindness.

[0:07] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big, spinning planet in the universe a better place to be.

[0:22] Robert Peterpaul: I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here!

[0:34] Robert Peterpaul: Y'all, I don't know how, but the curtain is almost closed on 2024.

[0:41] Robert Peterpaul: We are kissing the day goodbye.

[0:45] Robert Peterpaul: How many theatrical references can I make here?

[0:45] Robert Peterpaul: Goodbye, goodbye. Ah, too many.

[0:50] Robert Peterpaul: So long, farewell, I'll be to say goodbye, as if we never said goodbye.

[1:00] Robert Peterpaul: Sorry, this is the top of the show, okay? I need to rein it in.

[1:04] Robert Peterpaul: I am supposed to be saying, hello.

[1:07] Robert Peterpaul: Hello. Hello, it's me. Okay, I need to stop.

[1:12] Robert Peterpaul: Looking ahead to 2025, one of the biggest things I'm trying to work on personally, besides having musical outbursts, just kidding, that's never going to change.

[1:22] Robert Peterpaul: Sorry, not sorry, is people-pleasing.

[1:26] Robert Peterpaul: According to Psychology Today, people-pleasing is not the same thing as kindness.

[1:33] Robert Peterpaul: What? What a revelation. Who would have thought?

[1:36] Robert Peterpaul: It is, in fact, fundamentally dependent behavior and can actually backfire.

[1:44] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, well, um, okay. I guess that's enough about me.

[1:49] Robert Peterpaul: Let's shift on over to a sparkling human who seems to have the whole people-pleasing thing figured out.

[1:56] Robert Peterpaul: I remember watching her with my little brother when we were way too young to be doing so in AUSTIN POWERS.

[2:04] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, baby!

[2:05] Robert Peterpaul: Today's guest is the glittering Heather Graham.

[2:13] Robert Peterpaul: Heather Graham discovered her passion for acting at an early age, growing up in Wisconsin.

[2:18] Robert Peterpaul: She quickly caught the attention of filmmakers with her breakout role in Drugstore Cowboy, for which she received an Independent Spirit Award nomination.

[2:28] Robert Peterpaul: Graham went on to land unforgettable roles in the Jon Favreau and Vince Vaughn 1996 flick Swingers, the 1997 classic BOOGIE NIGHTS, for which she received an MTV Movie Award, in 1999's AUSTIN POWERS, which we did talk about, and in 2009's now-classic The Hangover, plus its third follow-up film.

[2:50] Robert Peterpaul: I mean, the list goes on. Don't even get me started on her television work.

[2:55] Robert Peterpaul: The Flowers in the Attic TV movies. I mean, there are so many. We would be here all day.

[3:00] Robert Peterpaul: Graham has expanded into writing, directing, and producing, flexing her skills as a multi-hyphenate with the critically acclaimed HALF MAGIC, a film she wrote and directed, which was released in 2018.

[3:13] Robert Peterpaul: Heather also executive produced and starred in the feature film Cake, which is a romantic comedy also starring Sandra Oh and Cheryl Hines.

[3:24] Robert Peterpaul: Wow. We mentioned people-pleasing at the top of the show, which is certainly prevalent in her latest flick, Chosen Family.

[3:32] Robert Peterpaul: Graham wrote, directed, and starred in this rom-com, which debuted in 2024.

[3:38] Robert Peterpaul: This movie is a centerpiece of today's conversation, along with kindness, of course.

[3:44] Robert Peterpaul: In addition to more producing, Graham will next be seen alongside Nicolas Cage in the Western The Gunslingers.

[3:57] Robert Peterpaul: Heather is truly a grounded spirit.

[3:59] Robert Peterpaul: This was a press day for Chosen Family, and she had some audio issues going on.

[4:04] Robert Peterpaul: She quickly took me on a tour of the home she was staying in, which was beautiful, to find the optimal place for sound.

[4:12] Robert Peterpaul: And I thought that was such an act of kindness.

[4:14] Robert Peterpaul: So thank you, Heather.

[4:16] Robert Peterpaul: And thank you all for tuning in and being a part of our Chosen Podcasting family.

[4:22] Robert Peterpaul: It is an honor to have you in our kindness community.

[4:25] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, audio hug.

[4:27] Robert Peterpaul: And I hope you'll join us for more positively unhinged fun on social media at Art of Kindness Pod and at Rob Peter Paul.

[4:36] Robert Peterpaul: You can also check out videos from our episodes on our YouTube page, the Art of Kindness Podcast YouTube, which we're trying to upkeep.

[4:45] Robert Peterpaul: Tis the season for giving, and even though I don't like doing this, I will ask for a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts.

[4:53] Robert Peterpaul: That would be such an act of kindness to me.

[4:56] Robert Peterpaul: Whoa, I'm getting awkward.

[4:57] Robert Peterpaul: Did you hear my laugh?

[4:58] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I would really appreciate it.

[5:00] Robert Peterpaul: Apparently it helps in the whole algorithm of podcasting, and I'm supposed to ask for them.

[5:06] Robert Peterpaul: So I did it, and now we can move on.

[5:08] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you.

[5:09] Robert Peterpaul: As always, stay tuned after the interview for a special kindness tip of the week with me.

[5:15] Robert Peterpaul: And now, without further ado, please enjoy the happy Heather Graham.

[5:31] Heather Graham: Hi.

[5:33] Robert Peterpaul: Hello.

[5:34] Heather Graham: How are you doing? You're on like a big press day right now. You look so lovely.

[5:38] Heather Graham: Oh, thank you.

[5:39] Heather Graham: No, it's great to talk to you. I've listened to some of your podcasts, and I heard you sing.

[5:44] Heather Graham: You have such a good voice.

[5:45] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

[5:47] Robert Peterpaul: Speaking of impressive, Heather, I am thrilled to speak with you today. I've always kind of found you to be just this ray of sunshine in our industry.

[5:56] Robert Peterpaul: I remember watching you in AUSTIN POWERS as a kid when I probably shouldn't have been watching it, honestly, and then just following your career since.

[6:02] Robert Peterpaul: So thank you for being you, first of all, and congratulations on Chosen Family, which my wife and I watched last night kind of cozied in bed.

[6:11] Robert Peterpaul: And it's such a peaceful and yet relatable story.

[6:15] Robert Peterpaul: So I just wanted to say that off the bat.

[6:17] Robert Peterpaul: But before I keep complimenting you, I do always start out by asking, how are you at accepting compliments?

[6:25] Heather Graham: You know, of course, it's so nice to get a compliment. And sometimes I feel – you know when sometimes someone compliments you, it's almost uncomfortable because it feels so good that you want to just like brush it away?

[6:36] Heather Graham: So I'm trying to just like receive it and go, thank you.

[6:40] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. I think it is really hard, right? Because, honestly, in this industry, it's part of it.

[6:46] Robert Peterpaul: I mean, I know at the stage door, sometimes you can get people saying things to you and you kind of want to brush it off and be like, oh, no, that's not true. That's fine. I sounded terrible today or whatever it is.

[6:54] Robert Peterpaul: But it is kind of just easier to say thank you and sit with it. I mean, but of course, that's why you're doing it. You hope people enjoy it. So if somebody says that, you just – it feels like, oh, that means a lot to me, you know?

[7:04] Heather Graham: Yeah.

[7:05] Heather Graham: Yeah, that's so true.

[7:06] Robert Peterpaul: Well, to set the context for today's conversation, I would love to know, Heather, what is your definition of kindness and how do you think it's changed over the years?

[7:16] Heather Graham: Oh, these are such deep questions.

[7:19] Heather Graham: Yeah. Okay. Let's see. My definition of kindness. Okay. Well, I think kindness starts with yourself. I've learned this a lot in my life because I think I used to say quite mean and harsh things to myself. And I think the more as I've gotten older, the more I've learned to be kinder to myself. I think that helps me be kinder to other people and come from a more genuine place.

[7:41] Heather Graham: Yeah. I think the more you can unconditionally love yourself, the kinder that you can be to everyone in the outside world.

[7:49] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. You can't really give from an empty cup. And I feel like you don't just talk the talk there but you walk the walk.

[7:55] Heather Graham: I do try really hard to be kind. And it does really mean a lot to me. But they said beware the naked man who gives you his shirt. Right? So the kindness, you have to give kindness to yourself. And then from your overflow, you give kindness to other people.

[8:09] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I think that's really true because sometimes if you're just being kind and sort of like windowing yourself down, which actually relates very much to your movie, right? As a people pleaser myself, I very much connected to your character, Ann, and I felt like I want to be a recovering people pleaser but I fall off the wagon all the time.

[8:26] Heather Graham: It's so easy to fall down and, like, to set boundaries. I remember when I was younger, people were like, we have to learn how to set boundaries. I just feel like what are boundaries and what are we even talking about?

[8:38] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I have some questions here about boundaries and everything that relates to your film. But before we get there, I would love to know, you have, like, this sunshiny attitude that I mentioned to you earlier. I'm just wondering where that came from. I heard you kind of talk about how it didn't always feel that way and it was definitely a shift for you. What do you feel like allowed you to make that decision to sort of, like, live in the sunshine a bit more?

[9:01] Heather Graham: I feel like I work really hard at it. I definitely think there's a part of my personality that is pretty happy, but then also I struggle with really difficult things in moments. And so then I really have had to work hard to have it. But it does feel so much better when you can enjoy life and come from a place of just being grateful for the good in your life.

[9:24] Heather Graham: I tried to express that in my movie, too, in the end. Because sometimes even if you go through really hard things, you can find a way back to just, you know, being happy and enjoying life. And I guess it is a goal of mine. It's like, why am I here? I'm here to enjoy this life that I've been given.

[9:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I can kind of distill it actually to this, not to quote you to you, but you had this sort of very simple but profound line in your movie that was basically that, which is that the important things in life aren't the bad things, they're the good things. And it's a very simple reminder to sort of like try to live in the good, not in a toxic way, obviously, but just reminding yourself that every day is very helpful.

[9:59] Robert Peterpaul: And I know you I mean, I love how open you are, especially about your childhood. And please, you know, only talk about what you're comfortable with. But I know your dream wasn't always supported growing up. And I wonder for you if there was an act of kindness or someone that you feel like changed your life and kind of put you on this trajectory in the arts that you're on right now.

[10:19] Heather Graham: Um, you know, it's interesting because my mother did support my creative dreams.

[10:25] Heather Graham: In certain ways, I feel that maybe she wasn't doing all the things I wanted a mom to do, but she did support me in the arts. I definitely had friends that supported me. In fact, one of my friends, Michael Nichols, he produced the film. I've known him since I was 17, and I'm really great friends with him. His wife and his daughter actually acts in the film as the friend's daughter. But he's always been a supportive person. To be totally honest with you, I had a therapist I met when I was in my 20s. She became a very influential person in my life in terms of just supporting me to go after my dreams and feel more confident. I think I never was able really to advocate for myself or stand up for myself or ask for what I wanted.

She really helped me, especially in the beginning, to learn how to just say things. I remember I dated some guy when I was 18. I literally could never speak about anything I wanted. I just pretended like everything was great all the time. Yeah. I feel that deeply. Sometimes the silver lining is a toxic lining because you're living in it too much. It's funny. I was just speaking to a friend about this yesterday, my friend Cheryl, who, shout out, she's the showrunner of Sweet Magnolias, which we should get you on there because you would be so lovely on that show. But she was saying something that really helped me, which is that I always feel like I never want to reach out to people. I don't want people to feel like I'm using them in this industry. Do you know what I mean? Like it can be a fine line asking for things.

[11:58] Robert Peterpaul: So you feel uncomfortable asking for what you want?

[12:03] Heather Graham: Sometimes, yes. I feel like I'd rather connect with people as people and then down the line be like, oh, you know, I'm like an actor and a Muppet or whatever, like, hey. But she said something that was so interesting that clicked with me yesterday, which was just that, well, you're not using them, you're in business with them. And that sort of speaks to what you were just saying. Plus they can always say no, that's not using. That's just you saying like, hey, you know, just asking for something. That's true. Yeah. But no, it's such an important lesson. And I admire you talking about that because it's something that I feel like we, I don't know, it's a tricky dance in this industry. But that is the cure to people pleasing, right?

Because when you're people pleasing, you're trying to like think about what does this other person want? How can I give them what they want? And maybe one day they'll give me what I want instead of just going, OK, what do I want? Let me just ask for it. And then whatever happens, I'll be able to deal with it.

[12:51] Heather Graham: Yeah. And you handle the people pleasing solution so beautifully in this movie. I don't want to spoil it, but in the end, you kind of handle it with love. And it's not like cutting people off necessarily. It's just saying this is my boundary. I love you. I'm not going to do this anymore. And if, you know, if you meet me halfway, that's great. If you can't, I'll still be here sending you love. And I think that's really beautiful because it doesn't have to always in life be black or white or one or the other. You can sort of like live in the gray a little bit with your boundaries around you. And so I love that I'm really getting into the movie so much. But I did want to fly down. I went down your IMDb list. Whoa, it's wild. It's like you've been fortunate to work. I feel like every year since your first credit, which is, I believe, a factory girl in an 80s Diane Keaton movie. This is so full or something. Do you know if that's wrong?

[13:39] Heather Graham: They actually have the wrong. I was never in that movie. I don't know why that's on there. But anyway, I'll take that credit. Why not? I love Diane Keaton. I wish I would have been in that movie. OK, maybe there's some lore like in the film. We can find someone that looks like you in the background. I don't know. But what's your advice for sort of maintaining this longevity in a business that can be very unstable? I mean, I know you have a sparkle. You're talented, obviously, all of that. Take it with that. But I think it's a mixture of, you know, talent, hard work, being in the right place at the right time, some luck and just perseverance and probably a lot of self-help, you know, to kind of keep me from crashing and burning.

[14:20] Heather Graham: Like I have this amazing group of friends. I have a chosen family group of friends. I do a lot of different kind of self-help stuff that kind of can help me in those moments that are, you know, as you know, hard being an actor in this business and now a writer director.

[14:34] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Oh, so amazed by you. I bow down. But I think self-help is something you're like one of the queens at. And I know for me, I love especially a good self-help book. But I have this awful habit where I'll get like halfway through and then I'll put it down and never pick it up again. And I think I get what I need from it. What I guess what's your advice on committing to self-help? Like, you know, I've read this book. Excuse me, your life is waiting and I feel like I got what I needed from it. It's so good for anybody that needs to read it. It's all about like retraining. Basically, don't read this book right now. You should go be living your life or what is it about? That should be the final chapter.

It's all about sort of the thing they keep hitting home is that this example of if you're at a red light and you really want a Ferrari and a Ferrari pulls up next to you instead of cursing that person and being really mad that you don't have one and kind of going down a rabbit hole of I'll never get this every time you see what you want. You say, I can't wait until I have that. And it's just like a reframing of the mindset. And it's really powerful.

[15:29] Heather Graham: I mean, I do that for sure with affirmations. I have these friends and we call ourselves the committee, but it's me and three friends. And we basically we write a list of everything we want and then all of our deepest fears and then we read them to each other. And then we make up our affirmations, which are basically we take our deepest fears and we say the opposite. You know, so with the Ferrari, it can be just like I love driving my Ferrari. It's amazing. And it's a dream come true owning this Ferrari. Or it can be something you want, just like I'm in such a loving relationship. I'm so happy or just like I'm making chosen family. And it's going to a bunch of film festivals like that was definitely one of my affirmations. But that helps kind of like retrain my brain to not be in like a worry fear pattern.

[16:15] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love that. I feel like I try to do that on New Year's. I'll wrangle my friends into like writing something they want to let go of or something they want in the new year down and then burning it in like a candle. And I think I actually almost lit our apartment on fire when you're trying to do that. But it feels like there's some magic in that, you know, just kind of like manifesting that.

[16:33] Heather Graham: Yeah, I think when you're with your friends and you do any kind of ritual and you feel that support of people listening to you saying what you want and just like them wishing for that for you, it's powerful.

[16:44] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I think what else is powerful are, you know, role models and examples in this industry to have sort of a clunkier transition. But I did it. I landed the plane looking at your crew here. There's so many legendary talents that you've worked with. Is there someone you've worked with in particular who you kind of profoundly found, like profoundly found who you thought you wanted to maybe emulate or you really appreciated the way they navigated this business kind of with kindness, but also smart.

[17:09] Heather Graham: You know, who's really kind is actually the director of AUSTIN POWERS, Jay Roach. He's a really kind person. Definitely. But well, these are very thought provoking questions. I feel like I need to think about it more. But to be honest, I have to say that a lot of people that I've worked with actually have been pretty kind. And I, you know, there's definitely been a few that weren't, but I'd say more of them have been kind than not.

[17:40] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. That's good to hear. And Austin Powers. So people ask you if AUSTIN POWERS would ever come back. Is that like something people are always asking you about?

[17:45] Heather Graham: Yeah, people do. People do. I guess someone said, is there an AUSTIN POWERS four? And I don't know, there was a rumor about it. I don't know if that's true. They're just, yeah, there's such like joyful, crazy movies. It'd be interesting to see them in these times, actually, how that how that story would come to life. But now, of course, you're a leader on multiple fronts with chosen family. You're the director, producer, the star. I don't need to tell you all that. We got into Ann being a people pleaser. And we sort of touched on people pleasing a bit. But did writing this and then being in the film help you learn it more at all about people pleasing? Like, did it ultimately leave you feeling like, oh, I thought I actually had left this behind. But now I've taken away an even more important lesson.

[18:27] Heather Graham: I think that I wrote it as a way to kind of just express my journey in learning about how I have been a people pleaser and how I want to stop. And I think, you know, they say it's like awareness, acceptance, action. Basically, I have the awareness of people. I have these tendencies, acceptance. You know, I was taught to do that because I was never taught to have any boundaries, action. OK, I can set boundaries. You know, I can take care of myself first. I have an affirmation, which is taking care of myself as my highest priority, because I think I was taught when I was growing up that if you want to do something nice for yourself, that's horribly selfish and you should just take care of other people, you know, which I think is not a very healthy thing to teach people, because I think it's really loving for you to take care of yourself first and then to just give from the overflow. And the more the more happy you are inside, the more more love you have to give. That's how I look at it.

[19:19] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I love that. Yeah. You've got to put the oxygen mask on you first, as my nanny always says. Shout out, Nanny. Again, well, this is such a lovely movie, sort of figuratively and literally. I mean, it's so scenic. I felt like at times I was watching a moving painting. There's obviously a story, but it feels like a meditation, like it's such a great film to watch because you take away a lot from it. But it feels like you're just sort of like it's very calming in a lot of ways. I found.

[19:44] Heather Graham: Wow, that's so cool. You found that because I meditate and I often find that when I'm watching things that I get really upset. You know, you watch some movie and it's really good, but then you're like, now I can't sleep. I'm so disturbed. But I didn't want to make a movie that can be about some subject matter that might be disturbing, but that leaves you feeling good because I feel like there's not enough and not enough things like that.

[20:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, you handled that so well, especially with Julie Halston, the way you handled her kind of character with comedy. But it's also like deeply painful. And we all sort of maybe have someone in our lives like that that's trying to maybe eclipse our shadow. But you're like, I can't like hold the ladder for you anymore. I'm trying to climb my own stairs over here. So I appreciated that. But, you know, kind of back to the beauty. Did you you shoot this on Rhode Island? Is that where you actually got to shoot?

[20:31] Heather Graham: We did. We did. That's where the financier lived. And so we shot in Rhode Island, which is a gorgeous place. I mean, you're on the water almost the whole so many parts of that of Rhode Island are on the water, which is so beautiful. It's so beautiful. I mean, the location scout, we need to give them a raise. It was beautiful.

[20:51] Robert Peterpaul: It's such a wonderful job. And I know it's such a personal story for you. I know, and you're very open again, which I appreciate about growing up was sort of like this fundamentalist father who's sort of portrayed in the film a bit who didn't approve of your career. And this is certainly all very prevalent in Chosen Family. How did you kind of find it? This is another deep question, but how did you find it within yourself to leave a situation like that? Because I think so many listeners out there find it hard, whether it's a toxic work situation or something more serious with a family member. It just, it's so hard to kind of make that choice. And I know for me with my family, it's really hard to break a pattern even when you feel like you've broken it, you know, you kind of can get called back in.

And then on the flip side, I don't know if you found this, not only is it hard to break that pattern, but then if you create this new boundary that starts working, it's really hard on your own front to shake the resentment. So I wonder just like how you've navigated that as a human being.

[21:46] Heather Graham: Well, definitely, you know, not perfectly. I'm sure I've done it wrong in a lot of ways, but there's this phrase, it's called an exploding doormat, you know? I think definitely in the past, you know, I mean, you put up with a lot and then you just, you haven't been really able to stand up for yourself. And then you're just so mad. So now I'm working on how do I advocate for myself before I get mad, you know, and just setting boundaries with people and just going, you know, like if someone's not talking to you the way you don't like how they're talking to you, that you just go, I'm gonna leave the room until you can speak to me in a better way. Like I can't talk to you when you're like this, you know? It's like I'm still learning it, but I think I'm getting better because once you start setting boundaries, it feels so good and you just think I can never go back to what I was doing before.

[22:37] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, all of this makes me think you were probably such a lovely leader on set too. And I wonder—

[22:41] Heather Graham: I tried to be.

[22:41] Robert Peterpaul: Well, they see, I think it's the pursuit. That's all we have. You know, the success maybe the completion means like maybe we're dead. Like I mean, I just feel like you just keep going.

[22:55] Heather Graham: Sure, yeah. A lot of people had a great time and you know, it's definitely stressful when you're, you know, behind the scenes being a writer and a director and a producer. But it is, I do feel really proud that I got to make the film, especially in these times. It's such a feat to get a film made, to even get like a script in development. So it's, it really is, it's a small miracle. You're basically pushing like a rock up a mountain and whenever you get it, it's a huge accomplishment.

[23:23] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love it. And I love that you used it to really speak to important subject matter. And I wonder sort of like with this whole experience behind you, do you have any advice for creators out there on just getting started with their idea? I feel like motivation is so hard in these times. Like it gets very hard to just open your computer and start writing. What was your experience with that?

[23:45] Heather Graham: I mean, for me, something that helped me was I just said, okay, every day I'm gonna do between like one and five things to try to push my goal forward, you know? Maybe it's make a phone call. Maybe it's sit down to write for four hours. Maybe it's send my script to a friend and get some notes, you know? And then just turn it over because you can't totally control it. You can't force it to happen, but you can just take, you know, the next great action, the next step. And it just feels good to go after your dream regardless of what happens. It's a good feeling.

[24:14] Robert Peterpaul: Do you have sort of a big takeaway from this whole experience as a filmmaker that you're gonna apply to your next film? Is there one thing you learned that you're sort of really glad to know now?

[24:22] Heather Graham: I want more money.

[24:26] Robert Peterpaul: I know, start a GoFundMe.

[24:34] Heather Graham: No, that whole world is wild, especially because you've been very open about how you feel like even still unless you have like a major male star attached to a film, you're not necessarily gonna get all this funding, which I heard you speak about with our friends at Women and Entertainment. It's wild, but I love how you also said people are more aware now. It's not necessarily that problems have been fixed, but there's more awareness, which is good.

[24:59] Heather Graham: Yeah, I don't feel like, oh now the problem is solved and we can all just relax, you know? I think the problem still exists, but you know, there's more examples of female directors and female stories being told. And I think people are aware that there's an issue and they're accepting that. So, you know, more steps are being taken to tell these new fresh stories. And I think, you know, just from a commercial sense, I think these are new fresh stories. I think they could make a lot of money. So hopefully whatever the financial world will realize actually these stories are big moneymakers.

[25:25] Robert Peterpaul: Oh for sure. I mean, I think there's a stat that says 60 to—I don't want to butcher this stat, but I'm gonna do it—but the majority of people that are paying for like cable subscriptions, streamers, box office tickets are women. So it's sort of like a miss to not cater to the female audience because they're actually the ones in the power. I mean, Reese Witherspoon just sold her company for like a billion dollars, right? So she definitely found that there's a market for her for female stories.

[25:57] Heather Graham: Yeah, do you have a story that you're really dying to tell?

[26:01] Heather Graham: Yeah, I do have a few things that I am working on and I hope to get made soon and hopefully it'll be easier this time.

[26:08] Robert Peterpaul: I hope so. Well now you have this beautiful calling card in Chosen Family and not only are you like this filmmaking expert now, but you have a wealth of knowledge in the wellness industry. Like before it was sort of, I hate to say trendy, but it does feel like now everyone is talking about it. And I feel like you used to do that long before that. I usually ask for a kindness tip, but I wonder in the vein of self-kindness, I'd love to know, do you like a tip or an adage you can leave listeners with on what they can do to prioritize their own health today in this busy world?

[26:41] Heather Graham: That's great. That's such a great question. I mean, I have friends I'll be like make a list of ten things that you do that make you feel so good inside yourself and like connected to this loving happy energy, happy to be alive and just do those things, you know? For me, it's like sleeping, yoga, hanging out with friends, you know, just relaxing. It's just like making that time for yourself to do things that bring you joy and that fill up your well.

[27:13] Robert Peterpaul: Do you feel like that? Those are the things that you come back to and that help you in the moments of maybe unkindness? Or I mean, as a filmmaker on set, I'm sure there were very stressful moments where you had to quickly navigate your best with kindness. So do you think those things kind of are what you go back to in those moments when you're getting a little unhinged?

[27:32] Heather Graham: Yeah, I mean for me it's like having this, it's like learning how to be this unconditionally loving parent to yourself and just being like no matter what happens, I love you. Look, I hope this goes well, but if it doesn't, I still love you, you know? Like you don't need to accomplish anything and you're just perfect the way you are and just really kind of just unconditionally loving yourself. I think that's the kindest act that you can do and I think that if you can do that, then you can treat everyone around you with much more kindness.

[28:00] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. And I do love how in the movie, she really tries to be kind to her boyfriend's daughter and she does succeed for the most part. There's like a little dance scene where it's sort of like, okay, and what do you do? But I love how she really maintains kindness throughout the whole film. Everyone, please go watch Chosen Family. It was so lovely to speak to you, Heather. Thank you for taking the time to enter our little audio universe and I wish you the best.

[28:23] Heather Graham: Thanks for having me on your podcast. It was so fun.

[28:23] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thanks for being here and in your shower. I appreciate it.

[28:34] Heather Graham: And now you can leave your bathroom. Thank you, I really appreciate it. Thank you. Bye.

[28:41] Robert Peterpaul: And now it's time for your kindness tip of the week.

[28:51] Robert Peterpaul: One thing I really love about this season that I wish all seasons had is that there are parties solely dedicated to cookies.

[29:03] Robert Peterpaul: Wow. I'm talking cookie exchanges. We all go to the same place at relatively the same time unless you're late to celebrate the same thing. And yet within that context, we bring different cookies to the table. And perhaps I'm reading too deeply into the cookie dough of it all. I don't know if that makes sense, but those differences are what make the party so fun. And I wonder if we could apply that as a kindness tip to our lives as we enter the new year. Think about your life as a beautifully carved table and on that table, there are all different cookies in all different types of containers and jars and tins and tubs. Oh my! Now take stock and really look at the people you surround yourself with.

Are they people with different perspectives from different walks of life? Are they different cookies? Is your table all, you know, chocolate chip cookies? Maybe add some sprinkles in there. What about some rainbow cookies? What about some crinkle cookies, some Linzer tarts? Is that what they're called that my cousin always makes? Shout out Maggie, love you! She makes great cookies. Add some Oreo peanut butter truffles. Ooh, we made those this year and it's hard not to eat them all. But try to honestly really ask yourself who is in your community? Because life is better when we have different cookies. Do you see what I'm getting at? We don't always want to be eating the same cookie, right? That's boring.

Anyway, I don't know if this is much of a kindness tip, but I certainly worked up an appetite, so I'm gonna go have a cookie and I wish the same for you, friend. Thank you so much for tuning in and until next time, please remember everything is gonna be okay.