This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:02] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:04] Liz Esten: And I'm Liz Esten.

[0:06] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew and Liz to like musical theatre. And it's an ooky spooky episode this week because it's October and I just really wanted to talk about this show, so now it's spooky! Oh my god, I didn't think it was that scary, but it is now. The bat sounds and, you know, the organ music and the lightning strikes and all of those. But today we are joined by our ooky spooky guest, who you will remember from the incredible YouTube series Sideways, it's Ethan from Sideways! Hello!

[0:43] Ethan: I got very scared there, the thought of bats, very frightening.

[0:48] Jesse McAnally: Bats are terrifying. Bats are so scary. You know what's like, like, gods, bats, gargoyles? What? What? How are those gods, bats? Because that's like a, they got wings. I thought those were invented by Disney in the 90s, which they have musical numbers, they come to life. They're not good musical numbers. I'm gonna be a gargoyle defender in this episode, which, not for the movie, but for this.

[1:15] Andrew DeWolf: Oh god, you look like a croissant.

[1:17] Jesse McAnally: Thank you, I was like, every time I see you look like a croissant, I'm like, how hard did they have to work to put that in? Croissant! Croissant! Croissant!

[1:28] Jesse McAnally: I can see the angry internet person saying, you've already covered the Hunchback of Notre Dame! Well, no we haven't.

[1:34] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, well?

[1:35] Jesse McAnally: You are incorrect. Today, we are covering Disney's Der Glöckner Von Notre Dame!

[2:06] Jesse McAnally: Der Glöckner Von Notre Dame, or in English, The Bell Ringer of Notre Dame, is a musical written and directed by James Lapine, and with music and lyrics by Alan Menken and Stephen Schwartz respectively. The original musical premiered in 1999 in Berlin, Germany as Der Glöckner Von Notre Dame. It was produced by Disney Theatrical Productions, the company's first musical to premiere outside the US. It ran for a whopping three years, becoming one of Berlin's longest-running musicals, and didn't transfer to Broadway ever, and only came to America in 2014! And in a much worse version. The plot of-

[2:47] Andrew DeWolf: We already covered that.

[2:48] Jesse McAnally: We did. And basically it was just me bitching about it not being this. The plot of which is, a deformed bell ringer must assert his independence from a vicious government minister in order to help his friend Romani dancer. Um, yeah so this is gonna be an interesting episode where basically it's me begging people to look deeper into the original Berlin production of The Hunchback of Notre Dame because now that the Patrick Page Michael Arden I believe it's 2014 or 2015 production that we played at the Paper Mill Playhouse and the La Jolla Playhouse, um, that has become the more well-known version and I think that's the one that I've liked experienced in the past because I just I don't remember German that's perfectly fine.

[3:36] Andrew DeWolf: I don't, that's that is did some good things it didn't remove a lot of the good things that this did but I think James Lapine's approach to this story and approach to the direction of this is so much better than anything they tried to do in any previous or hereafter productions that it makes me angry.

[3:58] Jesse McAnally: I will say this right like as far as Disney or like stage adaptations of Disney movies especially in the renaissance, you know you're talking Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid, Lion King, this one is like one of if not the best I've seen. It might be my favorite now.

[4:14] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it was really really impressive like I don't want to jump ahead too much.

[4:19] Jesse McAnally: Go, go, go ahead!

[4:20] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, go, go!

[4:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, one of the big problems is you could really see the stuffing in a lot of the other ones or it's like, uh, here's a musical number that wasn't in the movie and it's kind of like, yeah whatever but with this one like if you weren't familiar with the film everything would really blend together really really seamlessly and I think that was done like extremely well.

[4:43] Jesse McAnally: I think a big part of that is Europe puts money into its theater and a lot of it and they value it such as a commodity like we've that has become a recurring theme in our podcast is we will be so whiny about like these cheap looking Broadway productions and things that look borderline like community theater and then we watch one thing from Europe and we're like what you can do this?

[5:10] Andrew DeWolf: You can do specifically Europe that isn't England. England is also cheap but in a different kind of way. It's mostly like France and Germany, Germany in like these countries and they have like impressive theater productions and then uh the English speaking countries we get a trash.

[5:30] Ethan: Well I think it's kind of like that make a musical vibe where a lot of times I'll see contemporary musicals and it feels like they're trying to be more cinematic, yes you know like they're really trying to compete with film but in I mean at least from what I've seen a lot of places in Europe they're like they don't have any qualms about it being theater like they're unapologetically like this is the stage and we know how to use it.

[6:02] Jesse McAnally: But that's what you have to do yeah because if you want it to compete with a movie you have to lean into the medium and like make it immersive in that way because you're not going to be immersive in the same way a flat movie screen is you're just going to look flat.

[6:12] Andrew DeWolf: Absolutely like without and that's that is what happens with a lot of Broadway shows like we've covered when we covered the American one of the Hunchback of Notre Dame it was like it was the set was very flat and boring if I remember correctly.

[6:30] Jesse McAnally: Yes, it was literally just the floor of Notre Dame and nothing, everything was interpretive like they would use instead of like water they would use like a paper mache piece and things like that like then they would have actors represent like pieces and objects and sets rather than any it was very interpretive very for the score that it had it felt very underwhelming where this has visuals and staging that lives up to such a grandiose score.

[6:54] Jesse McAnally: And I think well Andrew what do you think is the biggest differences aside from the aesthetics between this and the American production?

[7:02] Andrew DeWolf: I mean it's hard to not talk about the aesthetics but I guess I mean there is story changes if we want to get into that and I like a lot of the story changes.

[7:12] Jesse McAnally: Um, they make it a little more adult a little bit.

[7:19] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, but I like that it's just a little bit. My biggest problem with the American version is they it almost becomes like wallowing in the misery a bit. This is like mature but children could still like you could still bring a family to it I think.

[7:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it wouldn't be like, yeah it's not alienating but it does like it the big they keep the dark ending Esmeralda still dies at the end um and it's still like that emotional catharsis is still there but on the other hand we still have the gargoyles they're toned down significantly but they're there significantly significantly.

[7:54] Jesse McAnally: And I don't I don't remember they don't sing the song do they?

[7:58] Andrew DeWolf: Do they do they do they do they do they say croissant?

[8:00] Jesse McAnally: It's very awkward they may not have recognized it in the German and I'm so used to the English version of it it's good because it's the opening of act two and I don't know if you remember what they did in the American version but I hate that song so much that I welcome fuck it's been so long since I've seen the American version it was a song called flight into Egypt about um a saint that was beheaded and the joke is his head kept falling off and it just doesn't work and it has no emotional connection to quasi at least this has a deep-rooted thematic connection to the overall narrative um fair enough but yes so I let's come let's start with comparisons to the original film Ethan what is the biggest differences between Der Glöckner Von Notre Dame and the animated film?

[9:00] Ethan: Oh well one is animated the other one's people.

[9:03] Jesse McAnally: Uh yeah that's a good that's a good call so I almost didn't catch that.

[9:06] Ethan: So yeah I thought it was animated the whole time.

[9:09] Jesse McAnally: Sorry.

[9:10] Ethan: So the thing is is whenever I look at one of these stage adaptations there's a really weird fine line that you have to thread where you're you want to be as close to the film as possible when you can but you also want to lean into theater as hard as you can when you know that you can't do what films do.

[9:24] Ethan: Um and something that I found really really impressive was the arrangement of all the music in this score. Um so when you're working with film right when you're working with anything that has any kind of access to post-production you can rebalance all the instruments you can rebalance all the voices you can copy one person and make them sound like 10 you can have you can have violins drown out brass instruments right you can have a solo flute like like outshadow an entire brass section entire horn section I could and normally when you see live performances of that kind of music especially in like a musical theater situation where you're dealing with a smaller ensemble you see a lot of like orchestration issues a lot of just problems with the arrangement I only saw like two maybe three instances where I was like oh I guess that doesn't really work um the way that they compensated for the film score and put that into the show was like really impressive it was really great.

[10:24] Jesse McAnally: Um so we're great job keeping um all the songs sounding really huge especially like uh just like the opening number when they when they go way way up at the end and like it's still you can still like feel it even though that would be like hell to perform live every night.

[10:42] Ethan: Oh absolutely well one of the things that they did that I noticed was especially in like hellfire which is always an amazing number um but again in the opening and the closing number um there's a lot more emphasis on lower voices and I noticed that they included a lot more strength in in the soprano lines in the in the upper voices and it gave for a fuller sound which was better live um which isn't necessarily something you have to do and you can just change it in the mix so like just little tweaks like that it's it's you really see the polish you know like you see the polish in the places that most people aren't going to be looking and so it was really nice it was really really nice.

[11:17] Jesse McAnally: I love this I I love you Ethan you are wonderful my god I could hear you talk for about this for hours my god I mean these are things I wasn't even considering um but specifically let's talk about bells of Notre Dame the opening um in the animated film it's basically identical to that except Clopin who is the narrator is not a goofy clown figure but a hermit retailing the dailies of his youth when he was actually happy um which is a choice and do you recall Andrew how the opening of the American version of the show is because it's very different and significantly worse?

[11:58] Andrew DeWolf: Oh god I remember we had complaints about it and I I think I remember saying that I liked the movie better.

[12:05] Jesse McAnally: It is but I'll be honest I can't remember exactly a six minute back story for Frollo alone about how he and his brother oh my god that's right it's him and his brother in that shit and his brother is Quasimodo's father Quasimodo's the nephew right?

[12:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yeah no it's that is it makes the entire story worse because of it it loses the power like this is such a punchy opening where he murders someone in

[12:34] Ethan: Regrets it and has to atone for his sins. I think the biggest issue with that newer production is they really center in as Frollo, almost as the co-lead with Quasimodo. It doesn't really make sense. Frollo is a villain. And this sees him as a villain. That's the thing I really like about Hunchback, just in terms of literary themes, is that in many ways Frollo and Quasimodo are similar. Right? And they deal with a lot of the same issues, they deal with a lot of the same problems in a broad sort of sense. I can't remember what it is, but it's after Quasimodo goes back to Notre Dame after The Fool's everything. It's the Heaven's Light Hellfire thing, where literally Quasimodo succeeds his save role, and he manages to be the good guy, and Frollo doesn't. Frollo fails.

They take two divergent paths. And so in order to express that, you need to have two characters who are otherwise dealing with very similar issues. And when you add that twist to Frollo and you put that extra weight to it, Frollo and Quasimodo aren't dealing with the same thing, and so their reactions aren't balanced. And so the criticism or the critique, the narrative, everything doesn't work. But yeah, no, I completely agree. I mean, they sing the same song in a way. Yeah, the Heaven's Light Hellfire is the same. I think it's the same melody or something like that. A lot of the motivic information is, yeah, yeah. It's really cool.

[14:01] Andrew: Oh yeah. I mean, this is just one of the best Disney scores. It doesn't really matter what version. This is one of the best versions of it, but it almost doesn't matter what version it is because it's always good. There are things that they do in this stage show that have always bugged me about Disney movies, and they pulled it off really well on the stage. Well, it's basically all the ending. I always call it Moulin syndrome because basically, once you get halfway through Moulin, there's no more numbers. There's no singing. There's nothing. We've talked about that before. In Disney movies, the second half is always action and stuff. So when they go to put them on stage, there's always like, well, how do we fill all of this?

And you end up with a very lopsided musical. How do you have an act two? How do you have an 11 o'clock number when a lot of these Disney movies, especially the Renaissance films, have very, very little musical numbers in the second half? Hunchback's a really great example because the entire second half of the film, it's got a really great orchestral score to it. I absolutely love it. It's fantastic, but it's got musical numbers and it's a musical film. You know? No, I mean, you're right. I will say that Hunchback works a little bit for me because they give you a reprise of the opening number and almost no Disney film will give you that. But that animated film does give you that. And that's why that has like one of the more powerful endings of any Disney film.

[15:37] Ethan: Oh, absolutely. Like without question. Ethan, I know this name means something to you, but I'm curious, Andrew, when I say James Lapine, who is that to you?

[15:40] Andrew: I vaguely know the name, but I really...

[15:47] Ethan: Director of Falsettos, Into the Woods, writer of Into the Woods, Passion, one of the most prolific Broadway directors and writers of all time. And when he was tapped to write this and adapt the film into darker, more intense source material and take from the Victor Hugo thing, he threads that line very well of both having a good night at the theater, but having emotional palatability that really hits home. And I think that he even his book has jokes in it. Like, he's not trying to avoid humor. He's not trying to avoid levity. He is trying to tell the best story ever. There's a story. There's an anecdote that he tells in his book, putting it together about putting the show on. He did like, I think it was like the first preview and Michael Eisner came and saw it and he sat through it, comes up to James Lapine afterwards and he's like, you know, Quasi ended up with a girl.

We'd make twice as much. That sounds like something he'd say. And he's like, that's what it is. And he's very proud of the work he did on this. But I think that further productions mostly are worse off because he was not involved. And but that might also be my bias. I grew up with this. I was obsessed with this German album that I had imported in because it was impossible to get in America. I had to translate everything. I looked up the book. I had to figure read the translated script along with the bootlegs along with it to figure out what's going on and learn all these new songs. And I fell in love with this production and thought it was basically as close to perfect as it can be. Wished it would come to America. And when it does, they kind of butcher a lot of the things I really, really liked about this. So that is my context for why I'm whining so much.

[17:47] Andrew: OK, so what do you like so much about this one? Because I feel like you've let you've asked us, but like you're the one obsessed with it.

[17:51] Ethan: Yeah, I mean, you gravitate toward it as a kid. Well, when you were a kid and you had this album, were you watching a movie going? It's not the same kind of. It was something like that where I enjoyed the movie and I saw that there was a Berlin production going on. This is like mid aughts. I want to say like 2005, 2006 around there. And specifically, there was just incredible songs like Made of Stone, which we are Stein, which is what it was originally called, performed by one of the greatest vocalists in the world, Drew Sarich, who would perform on Broadway and Les Mis and do a lot of incredible American and British works. But his German stuff is incredible. And the problem is no one else could sing it like him, including the American productions.

They, in fact, bring down the last note significantly for every other production of that song. So he goes, you know what? I'm going to indulge myself and do a little comparison for you guys. OK, so here is Drew Sarich singing Made of Stone. And this was 16 years ago. This is the only English clip that existed of this song for so many years. And it's only the last little bit. So I watched this clip so many times.

[19:56] Ethan: He performed that on stage. And then everyone was like, well, if we bring it to America, he has to do it. He has to do it. And he probably just aged out of the role. And here is how it kind of sounds now. It doesn't quite hit that right spot in my brain the way that that does. And it's like, that is not enough for me to dislike it. But if you're taking the things that I think really kind of set it apart, like the visual stylings, the impressive vocals, the punchy narrative, the effective comic relief, the design choices, and you just start withering it away, what is there left? And what I'm discovering is not much because the score on its own, while good, has too many faults for me to love it on its own.

And if you're adding in narrative pieces, like the kind of weird soap opera element of Frollo being Quasimodo's uncle, things like that just kind of make it a less quality broth. It removes the bone from the broth, so all you got is gross liquid. So that is what stresses me out so much. And I feel like most people have forgotten how good this show used to be and are just used to what it became because that's all they got. And it goes on to the further issue of a lot of people ignoring European musicals, including to our own. We don't cover as many as we should, but...

[21:45] Andrew: Wait, wait, wait. So wait, before going back to sort of the adaptation there, I have a question.

[22:00] Ethan: Yes.

[22:01] Andrew: Okay. Okay. So, Dear Glockner. Yes. That was 99?

[22:04] Ethan: 99 to 2002.

[22:09] Andrew: And then it came to the States in 2014?

[22:14] Ethan: Yeah. It had a dry period for a few years where the rights are kind of going like 500 different places. It was weird.

[22:18] Andrew: Okay. I have a question, and this might explain some of the Frollo stuff. How much of this was influenced by Wicked?

[22:22] Ethan: I can't say whether or not it was, but Wicked had some spectacle to it. Yeah. I mean, I guess... No, I can't think of a couple of musicals that have 11 o'clock numbers that are like that kind of showstopper, but really it's like Idina Menzel when you really think of someone just really going all out on stage. But yeah, I wonder if that was maybe a part of it? They wanted Frollo to be more ambiguous?

[22:53] Andrew: The only years I have for like, in terms of the dry spell is in 2008, Schwartz said, we're working on it. And in 2010, Mankin said, we're working on getting an American adaptation with James Lapine's book somewhere after Glockner. But then they threw out James Lapine's book, which it...

[23:10] Ethan: Yeah.

[23:11] Andrew: If you take James Lapine out of all these shows, you get much worse versions. Look at the Sunday revival. Look at the Into the Woods revival. I like both of them, but they aren't what they were. There's a reason why William Finn keeps bringing Lapine with him.

[23:26] Ethan: True. I have very limited information. This is like a nine year period where no one knows what happened. They just sat on their hands, adapting Tarzan and other shit that we've covered on this podcast, and it was much worse.

[23:39] Andrew: Just in production, Hal?

[23:41] Ethan: Liz, just tell me how many other Disney films were adapted to stage in between the 99 production?

[23:49] Andrew: I can think of a couple off the top of my head. We got fucking Tarzan. We've got Little Mermaid. We've got Aladdin. All these things came to Broadway before the one thing that makes sense. And even more so, there was announced recently, within the last five years, that Josh Gad was producing and starring in a live action version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame. And that was put on ice permanently by Bob Iger, who said, I don't like that movie. It's like a triple negative. It's not happening, but for the wrong reasons.

[24:27] Ethan: Yes. And it's such a shame too, because this is one of Disney's best musicals.

[24:33] Andrew: Oh, without question.

[24:34] Ethan: Yeah.

[24:35] Andrew: Disney doesn't like this movie though, because it's too edgy and they don't think it will sell, or they don't think family... It's not good for their image. I don't know. From where I'm sitting, this is either my second or my first in terms of Mencken's work. I mean, the whole film, start to finish, is amazing. And then the stuff that he puts in this show, also really, really good.

[25:06] Ethan: I think it's probably my first. I think the music in this is so cohesive. I can listen to the entire album straight through, and it's just nice.

[25:08] Jesse McAnally: It's time to compare our opinions to those of the real critics over on Letterboxd.com. It's time for Breview's Letterboxd Game! One star, five star. Andrew, I want to play against Ethan. Why don't you read reviews this time? Oh, this is the first time I've ever done this.

[25:20] Andrew DeWolf: I know, I know. Ethan, do you remember how this game works?

[25:27] Ethan: I do indeed.

[25:28] Jesse McAnally: All right, for the audience at home, Andrew and Liz are going to read us real Letterboxd reviews, and we have to guess just based on the review alone whether they're a one star or five star. All right, you guys lead, so Andrew, whose team are you on?

[25:44] Andrew DeWolf: I want to be on Ethan's team.

[25:46] Jesse McAnally: All right, Liz, you and me. Ethan, you go first. Your name starts with an E.

[25:51] Ethan: Okay, Andrew. All right, here we go. I'm just going to read one, let's see. Also, this isn't the Disney movie, just to be clear.

[26:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's Letterboxd.

[26:03] Ethan: All right, bro got so horny for a woman, he had to burn down all of Paris.

[26:08] Jesse McAnally: Five, absolutely five.

[26:14] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you fucking nailed it.

[26:15] Jesse McAnally: All right, Jesse, you ready?

[26:17] Jesse McAnally: I'm ready. All right, Quasimodo is a cuck.

[26:22] Andrew DeWolf: Not inaccurate. Five?

[26:25] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[26:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yay. All right, all right, let's see. Ah, here we go. I had pasta salad while watching this.

[26:37] Jesse McAnally: Oh my god. Yeah, five. I mean, yeah, pasta salad, that's obviously five.

[26:43] Ethan: Delicious food. Liz, that was a great one.

[26:46] Liz: Thank you. It was a late addition to the team.

[26:49] Ethan: That's amazing. Perfect review, honestly. What more could you ask?

[26:53] Jesse McAnally: It really is. All right, Jesse, you ready?

[26:58] Jesse McAnally: I'm always ready. Let's make a Disney movie about ethnic cleansing.

[27:05] Andrew DeWolf: Again?

[27:06] Jesse McAnally: Not a second time. Not another one.

[27:08] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that is a one?

[27:11] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[27:12] Andrew DeWolf: All right. All right, here we go. It looks like I'm going to have to zoom in on this one. I think this is a croissant emoji.

[27:20] Jesse McAnally: Yes, it's a croissant emoji.

[27:24] Andrew DeWolf: A croissant emoji?

[27:28] Jesse McAnally: My god, croissant is. And then another croissant emoji. Croissant eyes, motherfucker. Croissant.

[27:32] Andrew DeWolf: I'm going to give, oh shit, five. Yeah? Croissant?

[27:36] Jesse McAnally: Are we going to have a perfect game here? All right, are you ready, Jess?

[27:41] Jesse McAnally: I'm ready. Why is he kind of?

[27:43] Andrew DeWolf: I assume they're talking about Frollo. I'm guessing. I have no idea. There's multiple images. Five.

[27:48] Jesse McAnally: Is this the Twitter meme? Five for horny.

[27:51] Andrew DeWolf: Can I say something? Five for horny.

[27:53] Jesse McAnally: Five. It's got to be right. I won. I won five. Five for horny.

[27:57] Andrew DeWolf: Too much horny. There's a few people horny for Frollo, and it kind of concerns me. I'm actually surprised there's not more horny people for Clopin.

[28:06] Jesse McAnally: No, no one's horny for Clopin.

[28:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's weird.

[28:09] Jesse McAnally: That is weird. He hits that high note. That gets me horny.

[28:10] Ethan: He does. I mean, everyone is horny for Esmeralda, right? That's the plot of this movie.

[28:15] Jesse McAnally: That's the plot of the movie. Yeah.

[28:18] Andrew DeWolf: No, I'm more horny for Beavis. I love Kevin Kline.

[28:22] Jesse McAnally: Kevin Kline's chest hair. My God. All right. This is in quotes. This is just like Carrie.

[28:26] Ethan: Oh, my God.

[28:34] Jesse McAnally: One. One star. That's right.

[28:36] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God. All right, guys. We might pick the perfect game. Carrie, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee.

[28:44] Jesse McAnally: Carrie. If they don't like Carrie, I guess.

[28:46] Andrew DeWolf: Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[28:51] Jesse McAnally: Guy, you remember a lot more of Carrie than I thought you did.

[28:54] Andrew DeWolf: That was surprising for me. I don't remember anything about Carrie. Like, damn, that's wild. Ready?

[28:58] Jesse McAnally: I'm ready. I'm sorry. I'm still in awe that Andrew was able to pull out a Carrie. That was our fifth episode or something. Sorry.

[29:07] Andrew DeWolf: The world, according to Chris, means da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[29:11] Jesse McAnally: OK, OK. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. I like that. You describe that musical as it has some Sweeney Todd songs and some high school musical songs.

[29:17] Andrew DeWolf: Early days were fun. It's still kind of accurate.

[29:24] Jesse McAnally: Oh my God. I don't fully disagree with that still.

[29:28] Liz: All right, Liz, I'm so sorry. But that's the way things are.

[29:29] Andrew DeWolf: You're fine.

[29:32] Jesse McAnally: Esmeralda was that girl.

[29:39] Andrew DeWolf: She was that girl. Isn't that a TV show?

[29:42] Jesse McAnally: I'm five stars. Yes.

[29:47] Andrew DeWolf: Is this are we on like our last ones here?

[29:49] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, last three. Yeah.

[29:50] Andrew DeWolf: Are we tied? All right.

[29:52] Jesse McAnally: I think we're totally. Yeah.

[29:53] Andrew DeWolf: OK, so we got a tiebreaker then if we get these two, right?

[29:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. All right. Why does this go so hard?

[30:00] Andrew DeWolf: Five. Yeah, absolutely.

[30:01] Jesse McAnally: Five. Yeah, of course.

[30:03] Andrew DeWolf: Nailed it. Nailed it.

[30:06] Jesse McAnally: All right, Jess, you ready?

[30:08] Jesse McAnally: I'm ready for love. Needs a therapist because what the fuck?

[30:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. What the fuck?

[30:13] Jesse McAnally: Uh, I love these comments. That is that not a five?

[30:17] Andrew DeWolf: That is a five.

[30:18] Jesse McAnally: OK, tiebreaker.

[30:20] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, we have a tiebreaker.

[30:22] Jesse McAnally: This is all of them. And the tiebreaker might be the hardest one on the board.

[30:26] Andrew DeWolf: It is the most difficult one on the board.

[30:29] Jesse McAnally: So I won't even tell you why it's difficult.

[30:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we got to buzz in.

[30:35] Jesse McAnally: Right. Is that the rule?

[30:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we have to do a buzz.

[30:37] Jesse McAnally: I'll have Andrew read it because he's better at reading these.

[30:41] Andrew DeWolf: OK. Oh, OK. My friend told me we look alike.

[30:45] Jesse McAnally: Buzz.

[30:45] Andrew DeWolf: Jess. One.

[30:47] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[30:50] Andrew DeWolf: I beat it. I did it.

[30:51] Jesse McAnally: Once again, with a tiebreaker.

[30:57] Andrew DeWolf: It's a 50 50 chance. Just guess. Just go for it.

[31:00] Jesse McAnally: Oh my God. That was good.

[31:02] Andrew DeWolf: And that ends the letterbox game.

[31:05] Jesse McAnally: I'm getting carried away like Quasimodo at the end of the animated film.

[31:14] Jesse McAnally: Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got to show it to you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Patreon is this wonderful place where you get to hang out with us and do cool shit.

[31:21] Andrew DeWolf: We also have commentaries. One commentary where Ethan joined us. We think we talked about a goofy movie. That was a good time.

[31:27] Ethan: Like, yeah, that was a good time.

[31:30] Andrew DeWolf: We have more stuff coming in theory. But also, you can see extended versions of this podcast unedited.

[31:40] Jesse McAnally: You like our what do you call it? Episode, our School of Rock episode.

[31:45] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew cut a good 50 minutes out of that, which was comedy gold, but would have literally sent us to the gulag if we had released it.

[31:54] Jesse McAnally: No one is allowed to listen to that, except for people who pay.

[31:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they pay us. You get to hear what what is the issue.

[32:00] Jesse McAnally: But our current patrons are Liana Morton, Kaylee Blazier, Cinemageddon Reviews, Villainous Mist, Sophiana Ali, The Omega Geek, Paige Pearson, Maddie Wargill, Elisa Erdman, Annalise Gotova, Sarah Denbleckier, Evan Ball, Zachary Torres, Zora Marasso, Mara Forloin, Lisa L., Possessed Washing Machine, Nick Roten, Puffyboy, Julia Hardy, Jay Kusea, Sydney Hicks, Anna Bell, Billy Clifton, Andrew Wright, TheRedKaboose, and Katie.

[32:57] Andrew DeWolf: They give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at Musicals with Cheese. Um, yeah, come join them. It's a fun Discord server.

[33:05] Jesse McAnally: Also, not that it's worth mentioning, but we do have a brand new review on iTunes that I think is worth bringing up.

[33:10] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, God.

[33:14] Jesse McAnally: This, um, we read all of our iTunes reviews, our Apple podcast reviews, whatever we're calling it this week. And this one was just four days ago from Caitlin.

[33:25] Andrew DeWolf: Um, 1210.

[33:27] Jesse McAnally: Um, they said, with the title, The Rent Episode dot dot dot is just atrocious. Why bother covering a show you don't like if you're just gonna bash it the entire time? If some of the commentary was more objective, it might have at least been an entertaining listen.

[33:38] Andrew DeWolf: Um, damn, I'll have a more objective opinion next time. My bad.

[33:46] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, the third time we do a rent episode.

[33:49] Andrew DeWolf: The third time.

[33:52] Jesse McAnally: We've done two rent episodes already. We did our first one, which was our second episode ever, where we're like, hey, isn't this kind of stupid? And that was basically the entire premise of the episode. Then after, like, a hundred or so episodes, we revisited, like, here's a more nuanced take. Like, here is, like, kind of contextualizing it and making you know why we have our opinions.

[34:14] Andrew DeWolf: And we still get so much shit from the first rent episode.

[34:18] Jesse McAnally: But the problem is, I mostly stand by everything I said in it.

[34:24] Andrew DeWolf: We had a couple off-color jokes we probably wouldn't make anymore.

[34:27] Jesse McAnally: Oh, a hundred percent.

[34:28] Andrew DeWolf: But aside from that...

[34:29] Jesse McAnally: Other than that, I think most of the stuff we said, I would still agree with. They would just maybe say it in a smarter way.

[34:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[34:38] Jesse McAnally: The moral of the story is don't watch rent.

[34:47] Andrew DeWolf: We talked about a lot of these songs previously, like Bells of Notre Dame, obviously an incredible song. But let's talk about the ones that are kind of only in this version of the show.

[34:58] Ethan: Can I jump in? Just go straight in?

[35:00] Jesse McAnally: Hell yeah.

[35:03] Ethan: Someday is absolutely fucking amazing. And I am so happy that they managed to put it in the stage show and have it come back at the very end of the show. It's kind of like a giant moral. It's sort of like Esmeralda's own 11 o'clock number. It's amazing. I can't say enough good things about it.

[35:17] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[36:23] Andrew DeWolf: Was that in the American one?

[36:47] Ethan: I feel like it wasn't.

[36:47] Andrew DeWolf: It was, it was.

[36:49] Ethan: It was?

[36:50] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[36:50] Ethan: But it's better in German.

[36:52] Jesse McAnally: Well, just in case anybody listening doesn't know, when they were originally working on this film, and this is really common when it comes to, you know, just musical movies in general, Mencken had Someday as Esmeralda's number, instead of God Help the Outcast. And it was sort of a last minute change. And so if you watch Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Disney version, the movie, in over the ending credits, they play it?

[37:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think it's Bette Midler.

[37:19] Ethan: Yes, that's right. Um, and so it was really like a 50-50 as to which one was going to be Esmeralda's theme, basically, like her song. And they managed to put it in, in this, and it's breathtaking. It's amazing. Like, I don't have enough words to say how good it is to do, listen that to.

[37:41] Jesse McAnally: That they kept both, because I think "God Help the Outcasts" is also a good song, and they have them both in here.

[37:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, absolutely.

[37:47] Jesse McAnally: And the context, I like this version of "Someday" better because it's a duet, and I feel like it builds on it into this beautiful choral. So it starts as a solo, becomes a duet, and becomes an ensemble number slowly as her pyre gets built around her. It's such brilliant staging, and what musical theatre should be, I don't think it would have worked in the place of "God Help the Outcasts." It works brilliantly here.

[38:12] Ethan (Sideways): Something I really, really like about it, and this comes from the world of opera, like you can see Mozart doing this occasionally, where they'll sing an imitation. So Esmeralda will sing something, and then Phoebus will sing something back, and it's the same line, or it's slightly changed, but it's sort of like music serving the text in that Esmeralda is the one who's sort of putting the idea out, and then by Phoebus imitating it, he's the one who's receiving the idea and then agreeing with her. And so it's very much like her changing people's minds one person at a time and demonstrating that in the music. I mean, it's literally operatic. It is so cool.

[38:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[38:54] Andrew DeWolf: It's beautiful. But let's talk about a song that is in this one, but did not make it into the American one really quickly, which is "Out of Love," which is a song that the gargoyles sing to Quasimodo and Phoebus about why they are going to work together to help Esmeralda. I think it's a really cute song. I think it's a bit of warm levity before the show goes really, really dark and embraces the darkness.

[39:52] ♪ Musical number ♪

[40:29] Jesse McAnally: It's kind of interesting that they keep "A Guy Like You" when they have this song, but...

[40:33] Andrew DeWolf: I think "A Guy Like You" is fine in this context, where they don't overdo it with pop culture references, which is my biggest problem with the movie's interpretation of "A Guy Like You" is just all the pop cultural references.

[40:46] Ethan (Sideways): My thing with "A Guy Like You" is that it's the one song that doesn't sound like it belongs in the original movie.

[40:52] Jesse McAnally: Exactly.

[40:55] Ethan (Sideways): All of the rest of it has this similar tone and feel, and then "A Guy Like You" is just this jazzy number.

[41:02] Andrew DeWolf: Every time I think of "A Guy Like You," I think of "Under the Sea" and "The Little Mermaid," because they put that in and Ashwin was talking about it because they needed an up number. Nothing was exciting, nothing was up-tempo, and it seems like it was a similar sort of situation for this, where it was like, we need something fun, we need something jazzy, we need something that's going to make people move, or just not something ballad-like, right?

[41:23] Jesse McAnally: But no, I completely agree on that. I feel like the number doesn't really... It's sort of just shoved in there, it doesn't really have any kind of context necessarily. It doesn't need to exist, it doesn't do much to help Quasimodo, it doesn't do anything to really develop the characterization of the gargoyles, but "Out of Love" does.

[41:42] Ethan (Sideways): So by having "Out of Love," you anchor their gargoyles and their position in the story, and so it's okay to have an ancillary number where they're just dancing around like "A Guy Like You."

[41:52] Andrew DeWolf: No, I completely agree. I think "Out of Love" is a really great addition.

[42:00] Jesse McAnally: Also, quick correction. Some names are formed by All For One, not Bette Midler.

[42:06] Ethan (Sideways): Bette Midler did a performance of "God Help the Outcasts."

[42:09] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay.

[42:11] Jesse McAnally: Thank you.

[42:12] Ethan (Sideways): It was for my Eternal on the UK soundtrack, All For One on the US soundtrack.

[42:18] Andrew DeWolf: All For One sounds like...

[42:20] Jesse McAnally: Is it like a boy band?

[42:22] Ethan (Sideways): It is a boy band, yes. It's American male R&B, art, and pop group.

[42:27] Andrew DeWolf: Is this like when Stevie Wonder did that Mulan song, and it's actually the best song on the entire soundtrack?

[42:44] Jesse McAnally: Speaking of comparisons that make things look shitty, let's talk about "Hellfire" for a moment.

[42:52] Andrew DeWolf: What are we comparing that makes...

[42:54] Jesse McAnally: Are we comparing it to the movie?

[42:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[42:55] Jesse McAnally: Or the 2013 one?

[42:57] Andrew DeWolf: No matter what, "Hellfire" kind of looks funny on stage. You can't live up to what's going on in the film, and the American production doesn't even try, sincerely. They just have him on stage and just let him belt that song and whatnot. Here, they try to embrace some of the film's imagery, where Esmeralda ghostly comes down from the sky and falls like a little angel into his arms. Vocally, this is... I really love how deep, like a deep belt that they give Rolo. The final, she will burn like bolts to the back of the theater. It is so great. Just the visuals don't live up to it.

[43:37] Jesse McAnally: But have either of you...

[43:38] Ethan (Sideways): I don't know how you top the movie, though.

[43:40] Andrew DeWolf: You can't.

[43:40] Ethan (Sideways): That animated...

[43:41] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you can't top that.

[43:41] Ethan (Sideways): That sequence is like the best sequence Disney's maybe ever made.

[43:45] Andrew DeWolf: Ever.

[43:46] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, no, yeah.

[43:48] Ethan (Sideways): When I was talking about arrangement and orchestration and how they're only a few times, like maybe two or three times... Well, definitely two, maybe three, where...

[43:58] Jesse McAnally: All three of them were in "Hellfire."

[44:01] Ethan (Sideways): No, we're like... We're not having access to that kind of post-production. This was one of them. This is where they included a lot of upper voices to try and make it sound more full. But unless you've got like 40 people chanting in the background, you just can't get that same vibe. And you literally can't do that on stage. Like you're not going to be able to hire a cast that big.

[45:18] Jesse McAnally: Um, have either of you heard the demo for "Hellfire" and known what we could have had?

[45:30] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like I did once upon a time.

[45:34] Jesse McAnally: It is not good. And we're about to listen to it really quick.

[45:38] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, God.

[45:39] Ethan (Sideways): Oh, boy.

[45:40] ♪ Musical number ♪

[46:25] Jesse McAnally: It's just the staccato like "Hellfire." To show what we came, what could have been and what we started from makes you really appreciate what we ended up with. And maybe that was the only reason I brought up "Hellfire." Who knows?

[46:44] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my God, I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight. I can't get over whatever the hell that was.

[46:47] Ethan (Sideways): That was much worse than I was expecting on the be like, you know, you always got to like, you always kind of got to give it to him a little bit when it's a demo, you know, but yeah.

[46:55] Andrew DeWolf: Wow.

[46:56] Jesse McAnally: Damn.

[46:57] Ethan (Sideways): I'm gonna be I'm just gonna be 100%.

[47:00] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[47:00] Ethan (Sideways): If that was something that I came up with and was sitting on my computer as an as like a sketch as a rough draft, I get it. I respect the process. Batman could not get me to release that to the public.

[47:13] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[47:15] Ethan (Sideways): Especially when you know that it's like one of the best songs ever.

[47:19] Andrew DeWolf: And especially when you're putting it within that context. Let me put out this shitty version. Put that on the soundtrack. The most recent, like beautiful, beautiful, like a soundtrack.

[47:29] Jesse McAnally: Well, that's that's the thing, right? It's like like there's a lot about like, right. Creating art where it's like it's very personal. And because it's really personal, like no matter what you do, no matter how distant you try to make yourself from it, just because you're putting a part of yourself out there, there's parts of it that are just awkward and weird. And that's just what it means to, like, make stuff like I have. I have so many terrible jokes that never see the light of day and never will, even if you send Batman after me. But like, yeah, that sucks that they would make him or make them. I guess I walked into the room and was like, hey, what if you what if you did that? But you sang it.

So it wasn't like like a goofball comedy, you know, like you saying it like normal instead of like hellfire, you know, like, well, it's so that's that's really interesting because Heaven's Light and Hellfire, they're parallel in a lot of ways, especially like typically. And that is why it used to be like Heaven's Light.

[48:28] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that's the thing. It's heaven's light, right? Da da da da da da da da da. Right. So he leaps up. So that makes sense. It's a melodic ascent because he's going to heaven. So it kind of makes sense to go like that, don't try and invert that. Like, yeah, it's coming from and I would want to hear what that sounds like, too. But it just doesn't work.

[48:50] Jesse McAnally: This is why we get Ethan on. They spit the knowledge. I learned so much right there.

[48:56] Andrew DeWolf: It makes me curious. I wish I could just show you more demos. But one of my favorite parts that I wish stayed in the production was in the there's a recurring theme in the musical called Sanctuary. I think in German is Zuflucht, where it's like in our sanctuary, sanctuary, like that is a recurring thing between Frollo and Quasimodo. And it extends out there to be like to give Frollo two lines of plot backstory, which is just like I was once as blessed as you. I was renowned in something basically saying I used to be a priest. But then I saw the scourge of Paris and decided I need to work in the law to get them off, which I'm like, perfect. You're a religious zealot that sets it up perfectly. And then the new version makes him just a straight up priest because, you know.

[49:50] Ethan (Sideways): Yeah, yeah, I know. No, I agree.

[49:54] Jesse McAnally: But in the original version of out there, Frollo had a verse where he sings like the melody out there, they will hurt you or something like that. While Quasi is saying like, I'm only a monster, which doesn't work. Like things like that. I am so interested by the creative process of how things eventually reach their final stage.

[50:15] Ethan: As far as a cheese rating, I mean, I'm going to give it some sort of German cheese that I won't be able to pronounce. Let's pick one. How about, it'd be Ben Kassi or something like that.

[52:59] Ethan: Perfect. Milben Kassi. That sounds good. Is it K-A-S-S-E?

[53:04] Ethan: It's K-A, but with the two dots. Yeah. K-A-S-S-E, yeah. K-A-S-S-E is cheese in German. K-A-S-S-E, that makes sense. So Milben K-A-S-S-E. I like that. I like that. All right. Ethan, how about you?

[53:18] Ethan: I was pleasantly surprised. This is really, really, really good. I would put it adjacent to the very famous Lion King production that everybody knows and loves. Thank you for opening my eyes to it. I will say that this is something I'll definitely revisit. I agree, criminally underrated. It is a travesty that it didn't just get to translate over the Atlantic so that we didn't get to see it. I really can't say anything. And that's the thing, we didn't even get to everything about it because there's so many cool things to talk about. They have a projection of the front doors of Notre Dame, and so when they have a battering ram, the actors cast huge shadows on the door, and it's intimidating, and it's wonderful.

They get the puppet show imagery from the movie with shadows, and the reveal of Quasimodo is such a beautiful build-up. You see his silhouette first, and then he jumps in and he grabs a bell, and it's a moment. There's so many incredible theatrical moments in this. It's really, really, really good. It really is that good. It deserves all the raving. It's that good.

[54:34] Ethan: We did talk a thing about the risers, how every time you're like, oh fuck, that's really high up there. Or how they portrayed the molten lead that they were pouring off of the ramparts, like the way they made that look with the smoke and the lighting. Yeah, no, absolutely. Truly, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

[54:57] Ethan: We got the lamest set in all of the universe over in the States. It was like a square. It was like a checkerboard. A box with a checkerboard on it. I remember, when they needed to go around things, they would just pretend to be statues, and they'd move around the actors. And when they poured molten lead, it was like a little ribbon that came out of his sleeves.

[55:29] Ethan: Aw. Aw, so cute. It's just like, why, what, we couldn't spend more than five dollars on this show? Like, it's Disney. It's Disney, come on. What the fuck? Disney, okay, the reason why Disney didn't transfer that one to Broadway is because they thought it was too expensive, so they transferred Frozen instead.

[55:39] Andrew: Yeah, Frozen sucked balls. The one good thing about Frozen the musical is the poster. That is literally the one thing I like about that show.

[55:45] Ethan: The poster? I'll have to look it up.

[55:48] Andrew: The graphic designer did a great job on that show. No, seriously. So I got it right here. If you look at the corner of the snowflakes, it's Elsa's face. If you look in the middle of the snowflake, it's Elsa. It's Elsa in every part of the poster, like hidden in five different places.

[56:03] Ethan: Oh, that's cool, I didn't know that.

[56:04] Andrew: That's cool. Like, that is the only thing I like about Frozen the musical. Had to pull up my puzzle. You don't like that they moved the third song to be the mid-show?

[56:15] Ethan: Yeah, so you have a really, really weirdly long first act that just never seems to end. Damn, nothing's happened for a long time. They're still just looking for Elsa. That's weird.

[56:30] Andrew: Ethan, did you give a cheese rate again?

[56:32] Ethan: He did not. I found what I think might be the cheesiest cheese for this, for Der Glockner von Notre Dame, because apparently there is a Notre Dame brie. Apparently there is a brie that they make in Notre Dame, and it's like a thing. It's a delicacy.

[56:51] Andrew: Oh, there you go. All right, Liz, how about you?

[56:56] Liz: I am a huge fan of the original movie. It's basically, I think it's my all-time favorite animated movie, despite the gargoyles existing. It has such high highs, I can kind of forgive it. Also, I grew up Catholic, so that movie scares me inherently. And I really like this production. It does a lot well. The songs are great. Once you, I mean, initially, German's such an aggressive language, so the first time I hear it, it's just like, calm. It's like, ooh. But I really did enjoy it. The staging's great. And I highly recommend checking this out. I haven't seen the 2014 one. Caveat, I don't have any comparisons to the bad one that everyone's talking about. I haven't seen it, unfortunately. But maybe I'll check it out to like this one better.

[57:49] Ethan: I won't even say it's bad. It's just nowhere near as good.

[57:49] Liz: Yeah. Yeah, it's really more of an issue of like, it just doesn't live up to this at all. It doesn't translate over to the US, yeah. The set is laughably bad.

[57:59] Ethan: Yeah. I was watching it on mute while you guys were talking. It kind of looks hilarious.

[58:03] Liz: Yeah. I'm going to give this Butterkase, which translates to butter cheese, which is a semi-soft milk cheese that's moderately popular in Europe.

[58:16] Ethan: Moderately.

[58:17] Liz: Moderately. But I just thought it was a funny name. Moderately popular. Incredible. I love German cheeses. They have such good names. Butterkase. Butterkase!

[58:28] Ethan: I have been simping for this show for multiple decades at this point. I fucking love it. It is my shit. It is the most my shit. It makes me sad that we never got anything like this in English language, but it makes me appreciate what it had. And makes me so glad that it didn't originate here in America, because I've got a feeling they would turn it into The Little Mermaid. That being said, because The Little Mermaid originally had a good, like, an interesting artist behind it. Then they fired it, hired someone else, and it became trash. So I am giving this beer cheese served at the Marche Victor Hugo in Paris, because I'm still sticking around in Paris with Victor Hugo. Yeah, I love this story. I think it's done the best here. And honestly, just do something interesting again. Like, you don't even need to replicate this. Just do something that can barter with this in some way.

[59:28] Andrew: All right. This was a wonderful episode. Ethan, I know you've got some big stuff going on, but promote your stuff for the world.

[59:36] Ethan: I make YouTube videos, and I've been on a little bit of a hiatus, but I'm trying to get back on the horse at Sideways. It's my logo is the Sideways Alto Club. I'm also on Twitter. Same name. Have a great day.

[59:52] Andrew: Ethan, did I ever tell you the story of how, like, my high school best friend, who I had a huge falling out with, tried to extend the olive branch with me again by screenshotting your Sweeney Todd video where you called out musicals with cheese?

[1:00:07] Ethan: Wait, who did this?

[1:00:08] Andrew: One of my high school, like, best friend. We had a big falling out because of the 2016 election, of all things.

[1:00:15] Ethan: Oh, wow.

[1:00:17] Andrew: And the first time he talks to me in, like, five, six years, he's like, is this you?

[1:00:25] Ethan: Is he still wearing the MAGA hat?

[1:00:28] Andrew: It was more complicated than that, but not that I know of. But I just, that is a wild thing that happened. And thank you, Ethan. I really appreciate it.

[1:00:38] Ethan: Anytime, I think.

[1:00:40] Andrew: Did you say yes?

[1:00:41] Ethan: Yeah, did you respond?

[1:00:43] Andrew: I was like, yeah, that's me.

[1:00:44] Ethan: Oh, you know that guy?

[1:00:45] Andrew: I'm like, yeah, he's really nice.

[1:00:49] Andrew: All right, you know who else got them? Patrons.

[1:00:52] Ethan: Oh, wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on Spotify and iTunes at Musicals with Cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, Patreon Musicals with Cheese, Instagram Musicals with Cheese, YouTube page Musicals with Cheese. Our patron-only podcast is Patreon with Cheese. Liz and I got some fun stuff cooking up there, maybe one day. Email us at musicaltheaterliz on gmail.com. Our Keeper of the Cheese is Juliet Antonio. Ethan, why don't you give us some ASMR for Juliet?

[1:01:15] Ethan: We do that with all of our guests.

[1:01:16] Andrew: I've never done ASMR before.

[1:01:19] Ethan: All you have to do is whisper. Just get really close to your mic and whisper.

[1:01:21] Andrew: Just get really close.

[1:01:22] Ethan: I am so uncomfortable right now. I don't even know how to begin to explain it.

[1:01:27] Andrew: Beautiful. I do not, I do not feel safe. Now randomly scream, that they won't be able to do that.

[1:01:31] Ethan: Here's, here's the sound of my mouse clicking. This is what it sounds like when I lose in League of Legends. Shit. Oh, fuck! I'm gonna cum!

[1:01:40] Andrew: All right, this show is edited by Andrew DeWolfe. Our theme songs were created by Robin Nash of IU Music UK. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for keeping us on the platform and for not kicking us off for insulting the mouse. Because, you know, that's the biggest problem out there, is insulting Mickey Mouse to his face. Um, all right, is there anything else we have left to say?

[1:02:00] Ethan: I'm just waiting for you to start trying to sing German inexplicably.

[1:02:04] Andrew: We'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese!

[1:02:10] Andrew: Dreisen, Morgens a de sein, de te bregen drausen, o andre menschen gein, o's Juleblog geet on grausen, ich muss um es zu sein, heraus in der Natur. Des gab Ross, velden floh, tronken Schmoss, Don Retour, o nacht auf Einmelde, will ich hinaus.

[1:02:46] Ethan: Hey! Hey! That was really good! That was really good!