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[0:00] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? You're a lot like the Sancho to my Don Quixote.

[0:05] Jess McAnally: You mean like you're completely out of your mind and think that you're something but you're not?

[0:10] Andrew DeWolf: Exactly like that. But do you know who tries to help me think I'm something?

[0:14] Jess McAnally: Our wonderful patrons. Andrew, what's Patreon and who's supporting us on Patreon?

[0:18] Andrew DeWolf: Patreon is where you can go if you'd like to get a little bit of support to us. And also,

[0:23] get our Glee Podcast, which is probably the main reason people are going there right now.

[0:27] Jess McAnally: And commentaries.

[0:28] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, the commentaries as well. We're going to do a new commentary pretty soon.

[0:31] Jess McAnally: Oh yeah, I've got some big things coming.

[0:34] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, he's got a big thing coming. Our current patrons who are supporting us at the moment

[0:40] are Terry Needleman, Max Looning, Benjamin Lear, Lily Ackles, John Donah, Taron the Duck,

[0:45] The Fantastic, Jess Lightning, Ewan Cassidy, Hayley McDonald, Taskier, Fire of September,

[0:50] Nina Manieri, Monica Theroux, Brent Black, Hayley Murray, Alison Wonderland, B-Way Flix,

[0:55] Nathaniel Stacy-Coombe, Joseph Evans-Green, Lunarocks222, Irigael Drouet, Whiter,

[1:01] Carrie Ahern, Christine Malmodel, Mezzanine Theater Diary, Mary Lou Choquette, Ann Nunnally,

[1:07] Cole Birchfield, John Vanelles, Holysticality, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Grace,

[1:13] Andrew Van Barsen, Emily Stack, Kyle Summers, Jessica A., Mr. B., and Janae C., Kyle,

[1:21] Christina Francis, so I don't know how I messed that one up, Skylar, Liz Lim, Corey Wilmarth,

[1:27] Allison Stuller, Rachel Rose Velez, and nothing is certain except Beth and taxes.

[1:34] Jess McAnally: And these folks give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at

[1:37] Musicals with Cheese. If you'd like to join them and get all those fun perks, such as our episodes

[1:42] a day early, a fully developed entire podcast with me and Andrew talking about Glee, and a bunch of

[1:48] commentaries, come join them over at Patreon. All right, Andrew, are you ready to get into this

[1:53] shit?

[1:54] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy, you about to do it. Let's get on with the show. Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally. And I

[2:01] am Andrew DeWolf. And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, the podcast where I try to get Andrew to

[2:05] like musical theater. How are you doing today, Andrew?

[2:11] Andrew DeWolf: Well, my lord, I'm just looking to be knighted.

[2:13] Jess McAnally: Oh my God. Well, I don't know. I don't know any knights that can get you knighted. Knights

[2:17] don't knight. You have to knight me. You're a king. I've wandered into your castle.

[2:22] Andrew DeWolf: Can't do that. I don't trust you.

[2:24] Jess McAnally: Why not? I'm kind of a badass.

[2:28] Andrew DeWolf: Well, how many giants have you taken on?

[2:30] Jess McAnally: I've taken on at least one giant. I lost, but I did take it on. And that was the first act of Into

[2:33] the Woods.

[2:35] Andrew DeWolf: All right, guys. Andrew, what are we talking about this week?

[2:40] Andrew DeWolf: Man of La Mancha.

[2:42] Jess McAnally: A lot of good flamenco guitar in this one.

[2:50] Andrew DeWolf: Hear me now, the bleak and unbearable world, now unfixed and debauched as can be.

[2:58] And a knight with his banners all bravely unfurled now hurls down his gauntlet to thee.

[3:10] Andrew DeWolf: I am I, Don Quixote, the lord of La Mancha, my destiny calls and I go.

[3:19] And the wild winds of fortune will carry me onward, oh wither so ever they blow.

[3:31] Wither so ever they blow. Onward to glory I go.

[3:40] Jess McAnally: Man of La Mancha is a 1965 musical with book by Dale Wasserman and lyrics by John Darien,

[3:48] and music by Mitch Lee. It is adapted from Wasserman's non-musical 1959 teleplay,

[3:55] I, Don Quixote, which was in turn inspired by Miguel de Cervantes and his 17th century novel,

[4:02] Don Quixote. 17th century, fellas. It's old, guys. That's like pre-Shakespeare, right?

[4:11] Andrew DeWolf: I think so. I believe so. Isn't Shakespeare's 18th? Or contemporaries around there.

[4:17] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Either way, it tells the story of the mad knight Don Quixote as a play within a play performed by Cervantes

[4:23] as a character within the show and his fellow prisoners as he awaits hearing with the Spanish

[4:29] Inquisition.

[4:30] Andrew DeWolf: No one expects a Spanish Inquisition.

[4:35] Jess McAnally: The work is not and does not pretend to be a faithful rendition of Cervantes' life or Don Quixote.

[4:41] Wasserman complained repeatedly about people talking about the work as if it was like a musical version of Don Quixote,

[4:46] which it really isn't. The original 1965 Broadway production ran for 2,328 performances and won

[4:54] five Tony Awards, including Best Musical. The musical has been revived four times on Broadway,

[5:00] becoming one of the most enduring works of musical theater. The principal song,

[5:03] The Impossible Dream, became a standard. The musical has played in many countries around

[5:08] the world with productions in Dutch, French, Hebrew, Irish, Japanese, Korean, Bengali,

[5:15] Uzbek, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Serbian, Slavian, Swahili, Finnish, Chinese, Ukrainian, Turkish,

[5:23] and nine distinctly different dialects in the Spanish language. Man of La Mancha was first

[5:30] performed at the Goodspeed Opera House in East Haddam, Connecticut in 1965 and had its New York

[5:35] premiere on the thrust stage of the ANTA Washington Square Theater in 1965.

[5:43] Jess McAnally: All right, Andrew, tell me a little bit about Man of La Mancha. What did you think of it?

[5:46] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it was pretty good. A lot of really great music in it. The story was a little bit difficult

[5:52] to follow the first time through. I did watch, um, I watched it twice to kind of get a better

[5:58] feel for it. I think what partly confused me was the story within a story thing going on,

[6:04] which made it a little more difficult to follow. Um, and also the fact that we also are dealing

[6:09] with a story within a story that also has somewhat of an unreliable character as the lead. So,

[6:16] there's a lot to confuse there. But once you get past all that, it's, it's pretty good.

[6:21] Jess McAnally: I kind of loved that part of it, that specific part. And when we're talking about the show,

[6:26] we're referring to the, um, 2003 revival, um, with, uh, what is that gentleman's name? Brian

[6:32] Stokes Mitchell as, uh, Cervantes and Don Quixote. Um, and I think that production

[6:38] specifically is very well done. But I, my relationship with this show, I watched the

[6:44] movie when I was very, very young, the Peter O'Toole movie. It is not very good. Um, most

[6:49] of the songs are cut. Um, Peter O'Toole signed up for the movie, um, not knowing he had to sing

[6:56] because originally he signed up for a non-musical version and then they changed it into a musical

[7:01] version.

[7:02] Andrew DeWolf: They didn't, didn't bother to get a different actor to do it who could sing better?

[7:06] Jess McAnally: Nope. Um, the only character that the actor from the Broadway production that came back was

[7:12] Gino Conforti who played the barber. So, like the most minor role you could probably get.

[7:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yep, yep, yep. Other than like an extra.

[7:22] Jess McAnally: Um, Peter O'Toole tries very hard in that movie, but he's not doing good.

[7:27] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but Sophia Loren is specifically very bad at the singing part.

[7:31] Jess McAnally: Ooh.

[7:32] Andrew DeWolf: Like she has that really big number very early on her opening number where she's like,

[7:36] um, it's all the same.

[7:38] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it's all the same.

[7:40] Andrew DeWolf: And that song is really depending on how you perform it. And she's like,

[7:46] do like at the end of it, like where she holds the note at the end of every phrase.

[7:50] Jess McAnally: Yeah, yeah.

[7:50] Andrew DeWolf: She just stops. It's all the same.

[7:53] Jess McAnally: Oh my God.

[7:59] Andrew DeWolf: It's not a very good movie adaptation.

[8:02] Jess McAnally: No, not at all.

[8:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Well, thankfully we didn't watch that.

[8:05] Jess McAnally: Yes. Um, yes, it is. It is still very violent. It still keeps a lot of the horrible aspects

[8:12] of this story.

[8:13] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's fair. I mean, I think that this, this show does not shy away from a lot of bad things.

[8:20] Jess McAnally: No.

[8:20] Andrew DeWolf: That happen. And thematically it has a lot going on,

[8:24] which I feel like we could definitely talk about a bit here.

[8:27] Jess McAnally: Yeah. How about you just tell us what happens in this? What is the framing device?

[8:31] Andrew DeWolf: So the framing devices, a man, um, and to be honest,

[8:35] I'm going to have trouble pronouncing a lot of these names. Um, but the main character

[8:39] is, is a man that's going to get, um, uh, tried by the Spanish inquisition and the prisoners

[8:46] are putting them him through a trial of their own. It seems I have that right.

[8:52] Jess McAnally: Yeah. They're having a prisoner mock trial and the character, the character is Cervantes,

[8:57] who is the author of the original Don Quixote books.

[9:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Um, and they threatened to burn his manuscripts if he doesn't comply and the, if he's found guilty,

[9:08] so to say.

[9:09] Jess McAnally: Yeah. So basically he, he says that he is guilty of what they're accusing him of,

[9:13] but tries to save his manuscripts by just telling them the story and basically proving

[9:18] it's worthwhile, I guess. Performing the play specifically, like I will perform it for you.

[9:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Um, and that's, that's kind of the whole framing device. There's not really much else to it there,

[9:29] um, until the end. Uh, but yeah, unless you have something, you have something to say.

[9:33] Jess McAnally: I like it a lot. I think it's funny. I think it's really funny and really fitting with the

[9:37] mood of Don Quixote.

[9:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I think it's, it's a fine framing device. It just,

[9:43] it, there's not a ton to it.

[9:44] Jess McAnally: No.

[9:45] Andrew DeWolf: Um, most of the story is Don Quixote.

[9:49] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and Don Quixote is, um, well, when we're first introduced to him, he's kind of just like a knight

[9:54] and then we find out that he's kind of not. He's just a crazy old man that thinks he's a knight.

[9:59] Jess McAnally: Yes. Which is great. And he has, he has a friend, uh, his squire Sancho.

[10:04] Andrew DeWolf: Sancho. Yeah. So it's Don Quixote and Sancho,

[10:08] um, who, and they ride around, uh, doing night stuff or what he thinks night stuff is.

[10:14] Jess McAnally: Like the very first thing they get this right out the way. He sees the windmill,

[10:19] thinks it's a giant, then gets his ass kicked by the windmill.

[10:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I don't know how you get your ass kicked by a windmill, but that was that.

[10:26] Jess McAnally: He got his ass kicked by a windmill.

[10:27] Andrew DeWolf: And it's great. And theatrically it works perfectly because you just hear all the

[10:31] commotion. Then he comes back all ruffled and it's great.

[10:35] Andrew DeWolf: And then he goes to an inn and he thinks that that's like a castle and he wishes to be knighted

[10:40] by the innkeeper.

[10:41] Jess McAnally: Um, uh, and then the, the villain of the, of it is kind of quote unquote villain, I guess, would you consider him a true villain?

[10:47] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, as much as a villain, this really has aside from Don Quixote is like brain disorder.

[10:56] Jess McAnally: Yeah. The villain is the doctor who's trying to help him essentially. Um, and basically he

[11:02] helps him by showing how the world sees him. Uh, and really the, the big finale is, uh, Don,

[11:11] Don becomes sane again. Uh, and the people miss the real, the, what he was or what he represented

[11:19] so much that they force him to go turn back into his insane self.

[11:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. But we're, we're losing one very important relationship.

[11:27] Jess McAnally: Yes. There is a key element that I did skip. If you want to run into that.

[11:31] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I'll do it. Um, so he meets this barmaid slash possible prostitute, very highly alluded

[11:39] to being a prostitute.

[11:40] Jess McAnally: Yes.

[11:41] Andrew DeWolf: And he just sees her as this beautiful, pure thing. And she's like, Nope, Nope. That is not what I am.

[11:45] Jess McAnally: And just his willingness of, what does he call her? Dulcinea or something like that?

[11:50] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah, I believe that is it. Um, Dulcinea. Dulcinea. Yes.

[11:56] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Um, he calls her that, which basically is just like a very beautiful pet name. And he's just convinced that she is the one for him, but he asked for nothing in return.

[12:05] Andrew DeWolf: And that just touches her so much and inspires her so much, but it bites her in the ass because at one point she's inspired so much by his kindness and like headfirst reigning into terror, whether it's there or not.

[12:18] Jess McAnally: And it ends with her trying to bandage like these horrible people that end up like raping her and destroying all like she's in a worse place than before.

[12:28] Andrew DeWolf: Cause she had hope. And then it's just dashed away from her. And then she's like, get away from me, Don Quixote. I don't care. You, you did something worse than like what they did. You gave me hope that the world wasn't as bad as I thought it was.

[12:38] Jess McAnally: Yeah. But I ironically, she, she changes her mind at the end and wants and wants, uh, his hope back.

[12:44] Andrew DeWolf: Well, essentially the thing is that this is where the framing device becomes actually quite important in my opinion.

[12:54] Jess McAnally: Yes. Cause because, because they, the prisoners force him to add that ending on.

[13:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Cause originally it just ends with like the, um, Don Quixote seeing himself as the crazy person and just realizing, oh, I'm crazy. And I make everyone's life worth worse. And Cervantes ends it there.

[13:12] Jess McAnally: And the prisoners are like, no, no, they can't end there. So then he's like happy ending. She comes back and no, we want Don Quixote back. And they all sing impossible dream.

[13:21] Andrew DeWolf: But, uh, he still dies.

[13:23] Jess McAnally: Yes. So, but it's kind of, I think that the overall theme there though is, I mean, I don't know what I want to hear what you think of the themes before I go into what I think.

[13:35] Andrew DeWolf: If I'm, if I'm honest, I think the theme is like muddled, very, very muddled, but I don't know how muddled it really is. Cause I feel like it's kind of straightforward in a way.

[13:45] Jess McAnally: I think it's a little muddled in that only because of the way I feel about it. Like I talk very highly about the story as a structure. And I think this is a brilliantly structured musical.

[13:56] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I think it's different. It's nothing I can compare it to. But on the other hand, as I'm watching, it is a very lethargic, very low stakes watch. And the message is all about seizing the day and going out and living in the moment and doing hope.

[14:13] Jess: And I don't feel very hopeful at the end.

[14:15] Andrew: I want to say that the theme is actually the opposite of that.

[14:18] Jess: Let's go.

[14:19] Andrew: The theme is that it looks good on the surface to want to do all these things and to be hopeful and to charge headlong into situations and to be chivalrous and all these things but in reality it's all on the surface and underneath it doesn't help you at all and you're actually hurting the people around you and when they show the mirror on him it's him finally seeing that for himself like I see myself as this heroic person who helps everyone and in reality all I've done is hurt people and even the ending, the people that he's telling the story to are unhappy with seeing themselves in that light and force him to take the mirror away, essentially.

[15:07] Jess: I guess. I mean, it all depends on which one you think is the real ending.

[15:10] Andrew: I mean, I'm with you. I think the first one is the real, better ending. But I will say even with the other one as the real ending him dying at the end kind of changes it a bit because basically they force him to change the ending and then he's like, no, even with the good ending you're still dead. Hope is still dead. I mean, you die with hope and with love and with energy and facing into the day or living a sad, hopeless existence I think is the two choices.

[15:41] Jess: I suppose. I don't think, I don't want to look at it that way though because I feel like Don Quixote is not a person or even a fake person. He is the idea of like chivalry.

[15:54] Andrew: He's the reflection of knighthood.

[15:56] Jess: Yeah, and maybe these themes, maybe we want to say like these themes aren't relevant today because chivalry and knighthood don't exist anymore and all that stuff but I don't think that's the case. I mean, there's a lot of communities that still have those values in very high regard and to show them as what they are as a harmful nature is still important, I think.

[16:21] Andrew: I agree with that. I think that's a very succinct way to describe this.

[16:26] Jess: And this is a very comedic, fun musical with a very hopeless, bleak outlook. Like, even when we're back into the framing device in the end, yeah, the prisoners are on his side but he still has to go see trial to the Spanish Inquisition.

[16:42] Andrew: Like, that is where he goes in the last bit of this.

[16:45] Jess: That's the other thing though. What does the Spanish, who is the Spanish Inquisition in the play?

[16:50] Andrew: Because I think Don Quixote, they are Don Quixote.

[16:55] Jess: Okay, the Spanish Inquisition are Don Quixote?

[16:58] Andrew: The Spanish Inquisition are the ones who see themselves as the knights who see themselves as saving the day who headlong, heroically stopping the bad guys and all that.

[17:09] Jess: And in reality, they don't. They're hurting everyone, you know?

[17:13] Andrew: So, I don't know. I guess I might be stretching. I might be stretching.

[17:18] Jess: I mean, that's not that big of a stretch. I see where you're coming from.

[17:22] Andrew: But then you've got the theme, The Impossible Dream which is more or less the main thematic drive of this and has become such an iconic song in and of itself.

[17:33] Jess: Yeah, and it's a fantastic song. And I guess if you want to look thematically at what does that song represent, that song is sung by a person who sees himself as the paragon of virtue and even his own goals he cannot describe.

[17:49] Andrew: I mean, yes.

[17:51] Jess: But also, it is the general idea of hope.

[17:55] Andrew: Is it?

[17:56] Jess: Kind of.

[17:57] Andrew: Like, just hoping for hope's sake as opposed to hoping for a reason.

[18:01] Jess: I suppose.

[18:02] Andrew: Like...

[18:03] Jess: I think it's okay to show those in a bad light, though.

[18:07] Andrew: Is it a good thing to hope for hope's sake? Shouldn't you have a reason to hope? Shouldn't there be something that you're hoping for?

[18:14] Jess: I mean, we're all just hoping for positivity and the world to be a better place, I guess.

[18:19] Andrew: How does Don Quixote go about making the world a better place? He wants to attack monsters. He wants to be knighted to become nobility. And he wants to get a fair maiden. Those are the three things that he's actively seeking action-wise.

[18:34] Jess: And his impossible dream is the hope for those things.

[18:37] Andrew: It could be like a Paddington situation where just those who he... Like, as he wanders through life and he affects them, their lives are positively changed.

[18:48] Jess: Or at least it seems that way until it goes tits up.

[18:51] Andrew: True.

[18:52] Jess: Like, I'm not even saying that this is a hopeless show, or that you're incorrect, or that this hope is the right answer. It's just that is the main theme, I think.

[19:01] Andrew: It's definitely worthy of discussion.

[19:04] Jess: I have not seen this show enough times and analyzed all the lyrics and all of that to really definitively say what the theme of this show is. So I'm not going to pretend this is some sort of academic look at it. This is just, on one viewing, this is what I'm sort of taking away from it.

[19:23] Andrew: But I don't know if I agree with all this. I mean, Don Quixote is naive to a certain point.

[19:29] Jess: Dangerously naive.

[19:31] Andrew: I think that's... Like, there's a line between hope and naivete.

[19:35] Jess: Yes.

[19:36] Andrew: He falls over that line and trips onto his face.

[19:39] Jess: And then steps on a rake while trying to stand up.

[19:41] Andrew: Yes.

[19:42] Jess: And I guess really the toughest part to interpret is the ending where they decide that they would rather have the hope that he represented rather than him living in reality.

[19:55] Andrew: Which should be a bad thing, but isn't.

[19:58] Jess: And I think that's where the framing device really comes into play because this is not the author's intent. The prisoners are basically writing this ending.

[20:08] Andrew: The people are writing this ending, and the people want to have hope even when it's not good for them.

[20:14] Jess: All right.

[20:16] Andrew: What does it mean?

[20:17] Jess: What does any of this mean?

[20:19] Andrew: Honestly, if we start any conversation on Twitter, tell us what you think this musical means.

[20:23] Jess: Yes, please. Tell us what this musical means to you.

[20:27] Andrew: And honestly, I don't really know what it means to me either. It's not something I feel very passionately about, but I find very interesting, if that makes sense.

[20:36] Jess: It could definitely be interpreted in more than one way as well. I'm not saying that I'm the only interpretation, or I'm probably not even a correct interpretation. I'm sure I'm missing something somewhere.

[20:48] Andrew: Well, on that note, want to go into a mid-show announcement?

[20:52] Jess: Sure.

[20:54] Andrew: All righty. Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got to shill at you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Our current patrons are...

[21:04] Jess: Terry Needleman, Max Lunig, Benjamin Lear, Lily Ackles, John Donna, Taryn the Duck, TheFantaStick, Jess Lightning, Hayley MacDonald, Taskier, Fire September, Mina Minieri, Monica Theroux, Brent Black, Hayley Murray, Alison Wonderland, B-Way Flix, Nathaniel Stacey-Coombe, Joseph Evans-Green, Lunarocks222, Irigael Jouet-Whiter, Carrie Ahern, who I forgot to mention is the one that requested this episode on Patreon.

[21:32] Andrew: We're such jerks. Christine Malmedel, Mezzanine Theater Diary, Mary Lou Choquette, Anne Nunnally, Cole Burtfield, John Van Als, Holy Statistically, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Grace, Andrew Van Barsen, Emily Stack, Kyle Summers, Jessica A., Mr. B., Jhene C., Kyle, Christine Francis, Skyler, Liz Lim, Corey Wilmarth, Alison Stuller, Rachel Rose Velez, and nothing is certain except Beth and taxes.

[22:02] Jess: These folks give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at Musicals with Cheese. They also get tons of fun perks such as patron-only commentaries, our episodes a day earlier, and a full-fledged Glee podcast.

[22:14] Andrew: So you're missing out.

[22:16] Jess: You are missing out. Come join us on Patreon, goddammit!

[22:20] Andrew: All right, guys, let's get back to the show.

[22:22] Jess: Ooh, yeah.

[22:24] ♪ Musical number: "I Don Quixote" — performed by Jess ♪

[23:02] Andrew: All right, let's talk about Man of La Mancha.

[23:04] Jess: I Don Quixote.

[23:06] Andrew: I love this song. I think this song's great.

[23:08] Jess: And it takes a minute to get there because in that framing device for a good while there is no singing.

[23:14] Andrew: There is no singing until we enter the story.

[23:16] Jess: Is there any songs that take place in the framing device other than the very end?

[23:20] Andrew: I'm just going to say I think only the very, very end.

[23:22] Jess: Which is, I think, a cool choice.

[23:24] Andrew: It makes it so that it kind of separates the two a bit.

[23:27] Jess: Yeah, it does the thing that the guy that didn't like musicals should have done, which is really make a deep separation, where they didn't really do that there, so it's inconsistent.

[23:38] Andrew: Yeah, I agree. I like the separation.

[23:41] Jess: And this song has so much bravado to it, like in the singing voice and just how it's performed.

[23:50] Andrew: Yeah, there's not very many up-tempo baritone songs, like songs for men with deep voices.

[23:54] Jess: It's great, honestly.

[23:58] Andrew: And I have not... It's been a while since we've heard a good musical with a very good low voice.

[24:05] Jess: I think it's not been since Javert.

[24:07] Andrew: It's been that long.

[24:09] Jess: Yeah, and I think it sounds phenomenal.

[24:12] Andrew: Brian Stokes Mitchell specifically does an incredible version of this.

[24:17] Jess: His voice just throws me to the back walls.

[24:21] Andrew: I can listen to it all day.

[24:23] Jess: Oh, yeah.

[24:24] Andrew: It's so good.

[24:26] Jess: So, yeah, great song.

[24:27] Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Fantastic way to start it up.

[24:30] Jess: Literally, because that opening... I think it's worth mentioning in the opening, they have a very good flamenco guitar intro, which we don't always talk about the overture, but I think that it is quite good and sets the tone very well.

[24:42] Andrew: Yeah, the overture is beautiful. It's just one that I agree with Andrew. The framing device is a little intimidating at first, but once that over and you kind of lay back and you're ready into it, this opening is just perfect.

[24:56] Jess: I also... And this is just specifically to the version we watched. I love the set change between the two.

[25:02] Andrew: Yeah, describe what happened for the folks at home.

[25:05] Jess: Okay, well, in the overture, there is a gigantic staircase that, like, slides over and they walk down it. And then as it changes over, I think that the props are assembled from, like, wheels and things like that.

[25:20] Andrew: Yeah, just stuff around the prison.

[25:22] Jess: It's just very... It's very cool how they do it.

[25:25] Andrew: It's a lot like how in Falsettos, where they use the blocks for everything and would build the set literally with those blocks.

[25:31] Jess: Yeah, it's similar. It's really cool how they did that, though.

[25:35] Andrew: So, like, the framing device has, like, a real-looking, like, big building-type set.

[25:42] Jess: And whereas the story, everything seems to be kind of hobbled together.

[25:47] Andrew: Yeah, like an actual play, like...

[25:49] Jess: And it's kind of... It's fun.

[25:51] Andrew: The show is fun in a weird, kind of darkly satirical way.

[25:56] Jess: I like it.

[25:57] Andrew: I love it.

[25:58] Jess: One pair of arms is like another.

[26:03] Andrew: I don't know why or who's to blame.

[26:08] Jess: I'll go with you or with your brother.

[26:13] Andrew: It's all the same.

[26:16] Jess: It's all the same.

[26:19] Andrew: This I have learned.

[26:22] Jess: That when the light's out.

[26:24] Andrew: No man will burn with special flame.

[26:29] Jess: You'll prove to me.

[26:31] Andrew: Before the light's out.

[26:34] Jess: You're all the same.

[26:37] Andrew: You're all the same.

[26:40] Jess: So do not talk to me.

[26:45] Andrew: Of love.

[26:47] Jess: I'm not a fool.

[26:50] Andrew: With starry eyes.

[26:53] Jess: We should talk about It's All the Same.

[26:55] Andrew: Yes, Aldonne's a song. What do you think of this one?

[26:58] Jess: I think this song's really a fun opening to her. Like, you really kind of get the vibe of her. I don't see, like, that many low-to-do characters and proud of it in musical theater.

[27:09] Andrew: Like, when you do get low-to-do characters, you get, like, ones where they're the joke, like Madame Tenardier, or ones where they're just, Oh, Paul, me! Eponine style.

[27:19] Jess: And not ones like this. This feels very similar to a number that wouldn't come out very, very many years later.

[27:26] Andrew: The Privilege to Pee.

[27:28] Jess: That Innkeeper's number from You're in Town.

[27:31] Andrew: I can't believe you're bringing that up, but yeah.

[27:34] Jess: You get what I'm saying, though, right?

[27:36] Andrew: I think I understand what you're trying to compare it with, though.

[27:39] Jess: Yeah, like, kind of low-to-do, but like, I'm not ashamed of who I am style.

[27:43] Andrew: Yeah, no, it's a nice one, and I like this character a lot.

[27:46] Jess: Well, she's the only character that kind of lives in reality, so to say. Her and the Doctor, but you kind of relate to her a bit better.

[27:52] Andrew: Yeah, you relate to her a bit better, because the Doctor is kind of seen as the bad guy, in a way.

[28:02] Jess: Right, understandably so, but yeah.

[28:04] Andrew: Yeah, whereas she is like a love interest that isn't a love interest.

[28:10] Jess: It's strange.

[28:11] Andrew: Yeah, I mean, she is the female lead off of Don Quixote, but there's no romantic, really, there's no romance there.

[28:22] Jess: There is just, I want your company.

[28:25] Andrew: And you are perfection. Yeah, and he doesn't even really try to be with her necessarily, which is an interesting choice.

[28:33] Jess: Right, it's like he's following the paint-by-numbers of what a knight could do by going through his own sieve. I'm only thinking of him.

[29:10] Andrew: Oh, I think he's been told. Let's see, what do we want to talk about next? I want to talk very, very, very briefly about we're only thinking of him slash I'm only thinking of him.

[29:23] Jess: Yeah, that one is kind of cool. That's a goofy number and I love it.

[29:30] Andrew: Yeah, I like the framing of it as well with the two people surrounding the priest in the middle who is kind of like going back and forth between them. It's a goofy gag. The song reflects it. I love this song.

[29:42] Jess: Do you have any lyrics you want to mention for this one?

[29:47] Andrew: No, but I really like plot wise. It's just like Don Quixote's relatives being like, this guy is absolutely off his rocker. But we want to make sure he's OK, mostly because we don't want him to waste all of our money, so to say.

[30:06] Jess: It really is kind of like cynical. And you don't see like the anti family side of musicals because musicals are often things you go to see with families. You don't see like the evil relative, except in like the Lion King or some shit.

[30:15] Andrew: I mean, they're not evil, though. They're only thinking of him.

[30:21] Jess: And how that will affect them.

[30:27] Andrew: Well, yeah, of course. But, you know, they're thinking of him in a cynical, greedy, selfish sort of way.

[30:32] Jess: And the way we all think about our families, I guess.

[30:41] ♪ Musical number: "The Impossible Dream" — performed by Don Quixote ♪

[31:50] Jess: Um, well, I guess we've got to talk about the impossible dream. Fantastic song. Incredible.

[32:00] Andrew: The song of the show. It's for me, it's this and Man of La Mancha. But I think this one is definitely better between the two.

[32:05] Jess: I mean, this song, I like this is the song I knew every word to going in and still within the show. I'm like, I'm moved by this.

[32:18] Andrew: Yeah. And it's kind of the it's the big number, really, because they bring it back. They bring it back three times.

[32:22] Jess: Yep.

[32:29] Andrew: Right. And it's it's what closes the whole thing, too. So it's very good. I don't really fully understand what it's supposed to mean, but you can make it mean whatever you want.

[32:34] Jess: It's so basic in its lyrics, like, and I find, you know, and I know if I'll only be true to this glorious quest that my heart will lay peaceful and calm when I'm laid to my rest. Like, yeah, that can mean anything. Like, play that at a funeral. It works.

[32:49] Andrew: What is your what is your quest like? It doesn't it kind of it ties into the vagueness of the theme a little bit in that, you know, it's hard to really say what the thematically the show means when your main character doesn't really know what he wants.

[33:05] Jess: I mean, he knows what he wants. He just can't explain it in any way. That's

[33:10] Andrew: he wants the impossible dream, right? Which is the impossible dream is for him to complete his quest, which is what he wants to do.

[33:21] Jess: I want to complete my quest. Well, what's your quest to find my quest and become a knight?

[33:25] Andrew: Why do you want to become a knight? Because that's my quest.

[33:29] Jess: Basically, and like, this is the closest thing we get to, like, seeing into that psyche.

[33:36] Andrew: When I feel like the constant contradiction of the song itself and the generality fits into the insanity of Don Quixote.

[33:43] Jess: Yeah, no, it's it's the perfect look into what this man is. He is the like a physical embodiment of wanting something, but not really wanting anything at all.

[33:58] Andrew: I mean, I mean, that's just people. Now that I think about it, I think right now we need to know what we want something, but we really want nothing at all, especially in covid times.

[34:10] ♪ Musical number: "A Little Gossip" ♪

[34:29] Jess: Can I talk about a song that I feel is kind of misplaced?

[34:33] Andrew: Sure.

[34:33] Jess: Um, a little gossip I feel is very, very misplaced in the story.

[34:38] Andrew: The second the second you said misplaced, I thought of that song.

[34:42] Jess: This song does not need to be here.

[34:45] Andrew: Like, it's just honestly, you cut that song. The ending is more succinct. It's better, but we got a little too serious. People might get sad. We got to throw a little comedy number in there, Andrew.

[34:55] Jess: But it should be sad. The ending should be sad.

[34:58] Andrew: I don't know.

[34:58] Jess: I agree with you. I am 100% in agreement with you. I think this song does not need to be there, especially considering where it follows up with Alonzo coming back, not as Don Quixote, but Alonzo.

[35:11] Andrew: Yeah, no. And really, it's only it only really exists to just pad the running time a little bit and have a comedy number, which really isn't even that funny.

[35:21] Jess: No, it doesn't work.

[35:24] Andrew: Yeah. I mean, and especially after we just had the whole Night of the Mirrors sequence, which was very intense and interesting. And you're going to follow it up with, like, a comedy number that probably should have should have come, like, if in the show at all, like within the first half, probably.

[35:43] Jess: I don't know.

[35:44] Andrew: If I did a version of this, I would probably just cut that song entirely and just not even relocate it. Just get rid of it.

[35:49] Jess: Yeah, I feel like Pancho doesn't have much to do. I don't much like his songs. Like, I like him. I don't love that song either. It's funny. I don't like it, though.

[35:58] Andrew: He's okay. His songs are obviously supposed to be, like, very funny songs. They're not cynical funny enough. I feel like they're too sincere. They don't land.

[36:08] Jess: Yeah. I really like him. That's the title.

[36:10] Andrew: Yeah. And especially this one where it's right after a big moment and it's like, you really want to see what's going on after the whole Night of the Mirrors thing. And it's just like, um, no, we're going to show you another goofy number by Sancho. Here you go.

[36:25] Jess: I got a question for you. Story-wise, did it emotionally land for you?

[36:29] Andrew: Um, when Aldonzo, I believe that's her name.

[36:33] Jess: Uh, Aldonza, um, basically said, uh, takes on My Name is Dulcinea. Um, it didn't really land that well for me.

[36:41] Andrew: It gave me chills. So I was like, oh, yeah.

[36:44] Jess: I was wondering why she decided to come back, to be honest.

[36:47] Andrew: Well, I thought it was just like, super happy ending, all that stuff. Bring back, bring him back.

[36:52] Jess: I thought it was pretty powerful when he just collapsed.

[36:57] Andrew: When he just left for dead in the mirrors, you mean?

[37:01] Jess: No, I mean, like at the end when he just dies.

[37:03] Andrew: Right. Okay. I don't, like, which ending would you have preferred? You're the prisoner.

[37:09] Jess: Oh, I mean, obviously the happy ending.

[37:11] Andrew: Really?

[37:12] Jess: But yeah, nobody wants to hear a story where the ending is the lead is defeated and, and basically dead.

[37:19] Andrew: I do. My favorite musical is Parade.

[37:22] Jess: Yeah. Okay. Well, good for you. Parade sucks. Garbage.

[37:25] Andrew: Fuck you.

[37:26] Jess: Only good songs. The opening number.

[37:28] Andrew: No, no. Go back to that episode. Andrew said many positive things.

[37:32] Jess: I did. I liked that. I liked that show. I'm not, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying if you're trying to tell a story to the masses, they're probably not going to respond that well to that type of show.

[37:42] Andrew: No, they are not.

[37:45] Jess: Unless you're Matthew Morrison, who starts beatboxing in the middle of it.

[37:49] Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

[37:52] Jess: In the round so the other audience members can see you doing it.

[37:56] Andrew: Thanks, Schuster.

[37:57] Jess: Thanks, Will Schuster. You're ruining Parade.

[37:59] Andrew: Just like you ruined everything else.

[38:01] Jess: Yeah. Remember when he dated Lea Michele before the show aired?

[38:06] Andrew: Go listen to our Glee podcast for more of that.

[38:10] Jess: Andrew, I got a question for you. Do you think this show could ever be adapted to film effectively?

[38:16] Andrew: If you trim it, absolutely.

[38:18] Jess: Really? You think this is a very filmable musical?

[38:21] Andrew: I think so. I think you could have some fun stuff with it. Maybe give it like a Monty Python kind of look and feel to it.

[38:28] Jess: Yeah. I'm actually surprised Terry Gilliam didn't just take this and adapt it as his Don Quixote movie as opposed to the garbage one he made with Jonathan Pryce and Adam Driver.

[38:37] Andrew: That is a bit strange.

[38:39] Jess: Yeah, but I don't know. That movie was just such garbage. It looks too real. It doesn't look stagy or ridiculous enough. It doesn't work. And you got Peter O'Toole, Lawrence of Arabia himself just trying his best in terrible old man makeup because he was like 40 at the time.

[38:58] Andrew: This sounds miserable and I've never even seen it.

[39:00] Jess: Yeah, it hasn't aged well. Guys, if you want to get a gist of that, watch Musical Hell's review of Man of La Mancha, the movie. It'll give you a gist of why you probably don't need to see that. But if you see like a college production of this or a high school or even like a touring production of this show ever gets back to Broadway anytime soon, yeah, go check it out.

[39:20] Andrew: Yeah. You want to do closing remarks here?

[39:23] Jess: I guess. Andrew, what is your overall thoughts and your cheese rating?

[39:26] Andrew: Um, there's a lot of great music in this. The story is pretty good and it makes you think a little bit, which I like. And I would recommend it. I would definitely recommend it, especially if you can get a if you can see a good version of it with a really good lead, because I feel like how good the lead is really does make or break it probably. But yeah, it's good. Cheese rating, I'm going to give it Menchego, which is the official cheese made in the region of La Mancha.

[40:01] Jess: I enjoy this show quite a bit. I was very tainted with this just by the general idea of what I saw in the movie. But I thoroughly enjoyed this, and I appreciate our patron Carrie Ahern for telling us to do this because, yeah, she wanted us to do this for Father's Day, but we were doing Pride Month and this doesn't really fit into this. So just want to say happy Father's Day to her dad. Thanks for supporting us. Nevertheless, this show is good. Very highly recommended. It's a little long, but I watch not too bad. It's not too bad when you watch it in a double feature of We Will Rock You and Man of La Mancha. Man, does this show look great?

[40:43] Andrew: Oh, I mean, if you're going to compare it to We Will Rock You, this is the greatest thing ever made in all of history. Yeah, this was the impossible dream.

[40:55] Jess: Well, I mean, this show, this show is already pretty, pretty good. But if you're going to compare it to like bottom of the barrel garbage, it's, it's like, yeah, it's the impossible dream.

[41:03] Andrew: This is the impossible dream. So I'm going to go real lazy with this. I am going to give it fresco cheese.

[41:07] Jess: All right. I don't disagree. Which is very good. And I like fresco cheese. But you know who else is very good? All of our patrons.

[41:13] Andrew: Our wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher. You are the Man of La Mancha.

[41:23] Jess: You all are the Man of La Mancha. We're on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, at Musicals with Cheese. Please leave us some iTunes reviews. I know some of you would live that Android life, but maybe you can hop onto the iTunes app and leave us some reviews there.

[41:38] Andrew: I like when you look up La Mancha, the first thing you get is pictures of windmills.

[41:46] Jess: We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals. Tell us what you think about this musical. Tell us what you think it represents and all that jazz.

[41:53] Andrew: Our Instagram is Musicals with Cheese. Shoot us an email at musicaltheaterlives@gmail.com. Our title card was created by the amazing Jolene Casco. Go follow her on Instagram at Jolene Casco. Andrew, is there anything else you want to say? My poncho.

[42:12] Jess: Isn't it Sancho?

[42:14] Andrew: I feel like El Cabang is probably inspired by Don Quixote.

[42:19] Jess: Well, that's all we've got to say here. We'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.