This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Knee deep in the passenger seat and you're eating Métain. Is it casual now? Métain! It's a runny French cheese made in Franche-Comté, mostly used as an ingredient for making canne-coliette. So that was my little couch gag. Franche-Comté. Franche-Comté!

[0:21] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally. And I'm Andrew DeWolf. And I'm Liz Esten. And welcome to The Cheese Wheel, a hyper-fixation podcast where our topics are gambled on a big wheel. And this week, if you listened to last week's episode, play the clip here. Oh, this is one of mine! Next week, we are covering Chappell Roan, The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess, the album. We are covering Chappell Roan, The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess, plus one other single, because I wanted to talk about the other one. Which is exciting! Like, we're talking about an album, and a really popular album, and I'm pretty sure all three of us love it. This is the first album we've talked about in at least 300-something episodes of doing our previous show. Yeah. Isn't it great? Wait, last album was my recommendation, so this time we're doing a Jess recommendation.

[1:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah, this time. You know, the wheel landed on what the wheel landed on, you can't blame me. The wheel wants what it wants. And sometimes what it wants is gay. Cue the music!

[1:43] Jesse McAnally: The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess is an album with songs written by Kaylee Rose Amstutz, aka Chappell Roan, and Daniel Nigro, produced by Daniel Nigro, Ryan Linville, and Mike Wise. It released on September 22, 2023, and it was mostly brought on with critical acclaim when it was released, described as something that has a bold and uproarious introduction, buoyed by strong songcraft and steely indifference to good taste. It's great, I love it. The album is inspired by Roan's experience leaving her hometown of Missouri to Los Angeles to pursue a career as a singer. During her journey of self-discovery, Roan navigated love, heartbreak, and embraced her sexual identity, themes that would become central to the record.

[2:43] Jesse McAnally: Alright, I put this on the wheel, because this was my choice, because I fucking love this album, and it makes me happy, and you know what? That's what this show should be about. That's the whole fucking point. That's literally the point. The whole idea of the show.

[3:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we talk about things we love.

[3:03] Jesse McAnally: And hate. This is kind of the first, like, real cheese wheel episode, because I feel like the last pick was kind of a, it was a me and Jess pick almost, and probably a little bit of Liz too, honestly. I feel like you were kind of into that one. This is the first one where I feel like this is your pick, Jess. How do we run this?

[3:21] Liz Esten: I think whoever's pick it is should kind of run the show for their individualized picks. I feel like that makes the most sense. I'm going to start with everyone else, because I know Liz will have a slightly different story than mine, and mine's fairly short, which is, I discovered this album because me and my girlfriend were just on a long drive home, and I'm just like, and I was honestly ranting about my true feelings that I've ranted on our previous podcast that I can't enjoy musical theater songs really anymore. I can't listen to it because it feels like work, and it really is just so connected with something that is stressful and unpleasant for me at this point in my life. And that was all I used to listen to. And she's like, well, let's listen to this. I hear it's good. We turned it on. I immediately just started getting obsessed with this fucking album. And every day I have listened to something from it, and it has taken a hold of me in a way that no pop music ever has. And it sounds really ridiculous to say this, considering I am, you know, a man pushing for 30, not 40, 30, 40. Oh, Jesus, he's aging up already. He's so old. He's already. Oh my goodness. Approaching 30, that this really wasn't designed for, but it did make me feel whole in a lot of different ways. And these songs spoke to me in ways that pop music usually doesn't. And I'll probably go into that more. And Andrew, not to ruin yours, you listened to this and found this because I told you to. Liz, you have a deeper history with this show.

[5:04] Andrew DeWolf: Not fully, not fully. I did a little more. What is it? What is it, Andrew, then? Because I know Liz has deep roots.

[5:10] Andrew DeWolf: Very. OK, so I had kind of listened to some of these songs already because my girlfriend has been into it and she has a Hot to Go T-shirt that she likes to wear. This is the first time I've listened like all the way through, but I had definitely heard "Feminomenon," "Casual," "Hot to Go," and "Pink Pony Club" before listening to this album all the way through, which I did do. I did listen to this album all the way through multiple times for this.

[5:30] Jesse McAnally: So and it didn't feel like a chore, did it?

[5:32] Andrew DeWolf: No, honestly, like there is definitely some songs where I'm like, this one's a little slow. This one's a little bit not for me, but there is definitely a lot that are like, oh, right. You know, that's kind of a that's kind of good.

[5:48] Liz Esten: Now, Liz, your turn. Lay the bat story.

[5:56] Liz Esten: OK, mine's pretty goddamn long anyway. So we're going to take it back to like January, February of this year. I have been listening to Renee Rapp's EP and album for about a month and a bit at this point. I'm getting kind of in that like gay gay pop side of things. As a result, my Twitter feed is full of Renee Rapp content and Chappell's search to sneak in. And "Good Luck Babe" is basically out by February. So it's like on my brain. So one day I'm at work and I work in early in the morning. So it's we're not open. I can listen to music. So I'm like, I'm just going to put Chappell on. I need to listen to something. And I stick it on. And even on a low volume, I was like, OK, I got to listen to this in my car. I got to listen to this in my car. It's March. And I'm like, OK. And I listened to my car. And then I was like, this is so freaking good. And ever since that day, I listened in my car at a very loud volume. I've listened to at least six songs from this album every day. And I basically have most of it memorized. And every time she does a live show, I obsessively go on Twitter to see what she's wearing and everything else just about her. And I've listened to probably this album like 86,000 times in full, including the slow shit, which I listen to a lot. So because, you know, I know like my gauge with this album is a lot of guys are like, I really like this album, but it's only it's really good when it peaks up, when it starts to get slow, like it's a little boring. And then women listen. It's like I love when it gets sad. I love being a sad little lesbian. It's the best thing. Because when I get in the mind of a sad little lesbian, it's a lot of fun. I love this album dearly. And I love Chappell Roan dearly. She's been a hyper fixation of mine for a hot minute. So hopefully it won't go off too long in this episode. That's fine. We're here to share joys and let them be great. She's one of my biggest joys. She's currently my home screen on my phone as we speak.

[8:04] Jesse McAnally: But it's funny you compare it to Renee Rapp, who is an I like as a theater actress. I really, really do not like her pop music. I find her pop music very immature and kind of, you know, not my thing. I hate saying it like that because it does sound like, you know, old man yelling about things he doesn't like or understand. But it just feels a little too. What song should I play here? What's the what's the example?

[8:24] Andrew DeWolf: "Snow Angel" is the first one that comes to my head.

[8:27] Liz Esten: And "Tummy Hurts."

[8:27] Andrew DeWolf: I fucking love "Tummy Hurts." He's in love with her. But for what it's worth, they'd make beautiful babies and raise them up to be a couple of fucking monsters like their mother and their father. Eventually, 2043, someone's going to have a little girl like me. You're allowed to like them, but tension. I mean, I don't. I think also in I think Renee Rapp is PPP is actually kind of better than "Snow Angel," semi-controversial opinion because it has "Colorado" on. It's probably one of her best songs because it's just like really fun. And it's just about her, like not dealing with her mental health. So it's just baffling to me that she has such an incredible voice, such an incredible range of her voice. And she sings like this. It's like a low kind of barely singing, speaking. But this is not a Renee Rapp diss track. This is a Chappell appreciation. I love Renee Rapp. Don't like her music.

[9:36] Andrew DeWolf: What do you know about Chappell Roan as a human being?

[9:40] Jesse McAnally: She's from the Midwest. She moved to California when she got a record deal.

[9:46] Andrew DeWolf: You're just repeating all the things I said.

[9:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I mean, that's what I knew before you read that. And that's not what I that's still what I know after. I've also seen some info that she dresses like Miss Piggy.

[10:01] Andrew DeWolf: OK, specifically, that's a meme.

[10:05] Jesse McAnally: It's a meme, but I'm going to take it as true because I want it to be true.

[10:08] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that kind of leads into the Chappell as a drag queen conversation. So can women be drag queens?

[10:13] Jesse McAnally: Women can be drag queens. Yes.

[10:17] Andrew DeWolf: But the way she describes it is interesting. Like, yes, she has. I think she's a drag queen. I think it fits. But she compares the persona of Chappell to her real self as like Miley Cyrus to Hannah Montana. Like they're two different entities. Like there's the performer self and then there's the real person underneath it all. And I find that like, oh, that's juicy. I like that.

[10:41] Liz Esten: Miley Cyrus to Hannah Montana or like Jim Henson's hand to Miss Piggy.

[10:45] Andrew DeWolf: Kermit the Frog.

[10:47] Liz Esten: No, Miss Piggy.

[10:50] Jesse McAnally: Yes, but it is not Jim Henson's hand. It's Frank Oz's hand.

[10:54] Andrew DeWolf: No, you're Muppet lore.

[10:58] Jesse McAnally: Fuck you. You're right. You're so fucking right. God damn it. Indra's canceled. Indra's canceled.

[11:01] Andrew DeWolf: I know we're in a Chappell thing. And so today the Saturday Night Live movie trailer came out. And for some reason, Nicholas Braun is playing both Jim Henson and Andy Kaufman. And he's doing a terrible job at both.

[11:15] Jesse McAnally: I'm sorry. Did you say the Saturday Night Live movie?

[11:20] Andrew DeWolf: It's in everyone's best interest, mainly yours.

[11:23] Jesse McAnally: Sorry, was that a threat?

[11:24] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck around, Lorne. You haven't locked the script. Your crew is in open rebellion.

[11:29] Jesse McAnally: Fuck you. Fuck you. I definitely fucked you. The writers on the 17th floor tied a belt around Big Bird's neck and hung him from my dressing room door.

[11:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, there's a movie by Jason Reitman coming out called Saturday Night, which used to be called SNL 75, which is about the 90 minutes leading up to the first broadcast of SNL.

[11:51] Jesse McAnally: Is this going to be some sort of like masturbatory garbage?

[11:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Yes.

[11:56] Jesse McAnally: But there's already a story called Saturday Night, and it's not good.

[12:02] Andrew DeWolf: It's not good.

[12:05] Jesse McAnally: But no, like Nicholas Braun as Jim Henson, who's like, oh, they hung Big Bird up in my room and I didn't like it.

[12:13] Andrew DeWolf: I was going to say he was doing Cousin Greg, but worse. But like, I don't know. He's a bad actor. He's like the least interesting part of Succession. And then they give him two roles with very iconic individuals, and he's failing at both.

[12:27] Jesse McAnally: But he's not playing Andy Kaufman, though.

[12:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, he is. He's playing both, and they don't know why.

[12:34] Jesse McAnally: OK. Alright. Can we get back to Chappell?

[12:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Back to Chappell Roan, not Chappelle Rowan, which I've heard other people like incompetent YouTube horror YouTubers say her name. Oh, burn, burn, figure out which one I'm talking about, bitches. We're on the cheese wheel. We're not real anymore. Like four people just went, oh, oh, shit.

[13:02] Jesse McAnally: Alright. So I've heard a couple more things, actually. I mean, I was lying for the memes.

[13:04] Andrew DeWolf: OK, we're done lying, though. This is a truth-telling TV show on the Internet.

[13:11] Jesse McAnally: So what we're going to do here.

[13:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, what we're going to do is we're going to tell the truth.

[13:15] Jesse McAnally: Unlike Mr. Beast, I heard that she had been trying to be successful for like a long time and had released a bunch of stuff and none of it worked.

[13:24] Andrew DeWolf: Kind of. No.

[13:27] Jesse McAnally: She has released other EPs that have a wholly different vibe. And in interviews, she's even said, like, I respect that work, but, you know, I don't see myself in it anymore. That's not really what I do anymore. But I will occasionally perform them out of respect to 18-year-old me who would have loved to have the opportunity to sing these songs in front of an audience. But I don't really see any connection with them. And if you listen to some of them, like, because I will just turn on the Chappell, you know, put this on shuffle for me, please. And it's not my shit. Like it's I will skip those songs to get to the Pink Pony Clubs.

[14:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think she said on record, at least that she hates her old songs because they're too sad and slow. And she figured it out when she recorded Pink Pony Club, which she actually wants to make. Like what she actually wants to sound like.

[14:28] Jesse McAnally: So sad and slow is kind of a trend in pop music that I've noticed recently. I feel like I feel like I would apply that label to like Billie Eilish and stuff like that.

[14:39] Andrew DeWolf: Personally, parts of it.

[14:42] Jesse McAnally: There's a lot that isn't sad and slow, especially the song about eating out a girl for hours. That is not sad or slow.

[14:50] Andrew DeWolf: I think that that was a trend for a while. I think Lana Del Rey started Billie Eilish alley-ooped it. And now we're kind of at the end of that. We kind of want to have more Lady Gaga-esque, like, let's have fun at the club music.

[15:01] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but we also have a lot more music just about female sexuality in a way that's blunt and to the point in a way it hasn't been in years. I mean, I think the operative example is probably like Jeannie in a Bottle from the 90s or Christina Aguilera to work around the sex metaphor just because it wasn't marketable. And even like in Ariana Grande, like 2015, had a whole song about how she took so much dick she can't walk anymore. Like that's what Side to Side is like. And now it's lunch and a lot of parts on Chappell Roan.

[15:39] Andrew DeWolf: And there's a song called Touch Tank I listen to by Quinny quite a bit, which is just the least subtle song about eating out a woman that I've ever listened to.

[16:05] Jesse McAnally: So I think he wants to be gentle with me.

[16:10] Andrew DeWolf: While I agree with that, this album reminds me a lot of my favorite Lady Gaga album that no one else fucking likes, Artpop.

[16:18] Jesse McAnally: People turn around on that.

[16:20] Andrew DeWolf: I'm so glad. That is like the only Lady Gaga album I constantly return to, but like every song about that is very blunt songs about fucking.

[16:29] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. But I also think my points like female on female sexuality specifically, like there's been so many songs about men fucking women. There's like from women's perspective, from men's perspectives, from whoever's perspective. There's not a lot of songs about women just fucking each other. And now there's a ton. And God bless them. God bless this 2024 we live in where we can sing about two ladies having sex and it can become a hit.

[17:00] Andrew DeWolf: And it can become a hit, so.

[17:03] Jesse McAnally: And well-deserved. Speaking of that, I want to know why did this become a hit? Because you said this came out in September of last year and it's a hit now. What's that about?

[17:14] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Pink Pony Club as a single came out in 2020. Like it goes even further back. I think Liz tried to show it to me when we were doing our Patreon with Cheese stuff on Tangled.

[17:27] Jesse McAnally: No, I also meant to quote a Chappell Roan song recording at other podcasts we do. And you made a Muppets joke because you didn't understand what I was saying. So you didn't know what it was. And I'm like, I'm obsessed with this album at this point. So I'm like, no one understands my obsessions.

[17:43] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I get it.

[17:45] Jesse McAnally: So she was, yeah, she was basically, she went to California with a record deal. The label did not understand Pink Pony Club and did not like it, and dropped her and that song from her record label. And then she was an independent artist and started doing openers for folks like Olivia Rodrigo and our favorite person, Ben Platt, she was an opener for. And that's kind of where these songs started picking up and people started listening. She drops the full album in 2023, and it didn't take off until early 2024. And I don't really know what the linchpin that caused it was. It was very likely the Coachella performance.

[18:32] Andrew DeWolf: There we are.

[18:32] Jesse McAnally: Coachella, she was not a headliner because she wasn't known, but she did so well and the videos went online and people are like, she is the best. And the Good Luck Babe performance specifically went insanely viral because of her live vocals on that song. So that's what kickstarted it. And then she did the Gov Ball next, like a month or so later, and she dressed as the goddamn Statue of Liberty and came out in an apple that's a bong. And one of my coworkers saw that show live, and I made him tell me about it for like 20 minutes on the job once. It's insane. And then she just kept going and she's been doing festivals all year. And that's where her traction is. I really feel bad because she came to Michigan, Kalamazoo, like a week before I got into her. And I was really angry because I could have gotten dirt cheap fucking tickets.

[19:21] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, damn.

[19:22] Jesse McAnally: I did! Um, that being said, I would have gone to see this. And I saw a lot of the trend being like, don't bring your boyfriends to the Chappell shows. And I'm like, I want to go to a Chappell show. They look fun. They got dances. Have you seen that clip of all the men walking out of a stressful performance when Feminomenon is playing?

[19:46] Andrew DeWolf: No, what happened?

[19:47] Jesse McAnally: Basically, because that song is about how men can't please women because women are better. So all the straight boyfriends just walked out.

[19:55] Andrew DeWolf: What fucking beta cucks? This is before straight people started to like Chappell. And so this is like way before. But it's a very famous clip that was circulating.

[20:05] Andrew DeWolf: I guess that that context does make sense. I was just like, I want to see her. She seems fun. These seem like a good time. I saw Lady Gaga drink an entire bottle of wine and dance the entire time. It was great.

[20:16] Jesse McAnally: I miss drinking. Way to go admitting the songs about you, fellas.

[20:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Honestly, it's true. Um, but the thing is, it is nice to enjoy the music of someone and not have to enjoy the person. Not that I would enjoy it, but like the music comes first in a way that it doesn't for a lot of other artists. There's a lot of baggage with someone like Ariana Grande or Taylor Swift. And here, it's kind of just fresh. And just the music. And it's pure. And it's honest. And it's embarrassing. Like a lot of these songs are deeply, uncomfortably embarrassing things to admit where she looks like the bad guy. And it's not like an ironic. It is like specifically like my kink is karma is kind of like something that I don't think other people would admit. And I hate comparing it because they're very, very different artists. But Taylor Swift is nowhere near as secure enough to talk about the shit that is being talked about so openly and earnestly here.

[21:19] Andrew DeWolf: And we'll go into that in our second half. Taylor Swift's not open or honest enough to talk about fucking anything.

[21:26] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. I mean, she alludes. She's famous for alluding to things. And then Chappell just be like, yeah, I was in a casual relationship with this guy. And I was like in love with him. And that was it. And that was like the whole song.

[21:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And I love you. Go ahead.

[21:40] Liz Esten: Oh, just "Coffee" is another one where she's like entire songs about like, hey, I'm going to go meet up with my ex in New York and we're only getting coffee. And she's like, that's what I want to happen. But in real life, we went out for drinks and I fucked him.

[21:52] Andrew DeWolf: Is that what she said?

[21:54] Liz Esten: That was what they said. It's like it's what I wish had happened as opposed to what happened.

[21:57] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, what were you saying, Andrew?

[22:00] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I was just going to say the vibe I get from the lyrics is it's very punk rock.

[22:04] Jesse McAnally: And in the real sense, because you used to say you hate punk rock because it isn't real.

[22:13] Andrew DeWolf: No, in the real sense. So I used to say I hate punk rock, but I was really talking about pop punk.

[22:19] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[22:19] Andrew DeWolf: You know, punk rock is real. It's just drunk and real. And I feel like this is drunk and real.

[22:26] Jesse McAnally: So, um, Liz, I think it's time for you to whip out the Chappell Roan trivia quiz that you prepared for me and Andrew.

[22:36] Liz Esten: Oh, I'm going to fucking lose.

[22:38] Liz Esten: Previews today. We have Liz choose.

[22:42] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[22:43] Liz Esten: Oh, there's no fucking way. Previews.

[22:45] Andrew DeWolf: Just keep going.

[22:46] Liz Esten: Previews. I know it's just because this is a wholly different game. This is a trivia contest. This is very loosely structured game. So this will be fun. We'll call this Wild Facts.

[22:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[22:55] Liz Esten: Wild Facts with Liz. We're bringing it back for the new show. Alright. This is a weird quiz. I made up by Googling a bunch of stuff about her and putting her in a note. So we're just going to make up some questions.

[23:10] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, let's start with the origins of her name.

[23:15] Liz Esten: That's an interesting one. So this is the origin of the Chappell because her name is Kaylee Rose Amstutz.

[23:22] Andrew DeWolf: Amstutz? That's how you say that?

[23:24] Liz Esten: I think. I don't know how to say her last name to be perfectly genuine with you.

[23:27] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[23:28] Liz Esten: Amstutz.

[23:29] Andrew DeWolf: That's what I said.

[23:30] Liz Esten: Amstutz.

[23:31] Andrew DeWolf: Amstutz.

[23:32] Liz Esten: I'm not from Missouri.

[23:36] Andrew DeWolf: I amstutz.

[23:37] Liz Esten: Alright. So is her first part of her stage name in honor of her A. Grandfather. B. Grandmother. C. Great Aunt.

[23:49] Andrew DeWolf: I'm sorry. Is this for both of us or is this for Jess?

[23:53] Liz Esten: I can raise my hand and we can buzz in.

[23:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, buzz in.

[23:55] Liz Esten: Alright.

[23:58] Jesse McAnally: Grandmother.

[24:03] Liz Esten: Alright. I'll try.

[24:04] Andrew DeWolf: Great Aunt.

[24:07] Liz Esten: It was her grandfather.

[24:09] Andrew DeWolf: What? Explain the context.

[24:11] Liz Esten: Okay. So the origins of her name is her stage name adapted in honor of her late grandfather, Dennis Chappell, and his favorite song, Marty Robbins' The Strawberry Roan. Down in the horse corral standing alone is an old cavallo a strawberry roan. His legs are all spab and he's got pigeon toes, little pig eyes and a big Roman nose.

[24:40] Jesse McAnally: Oh, that's sweet.

[24:41] Liz Esten: That's cute, actually.

[24:42] Andrew DeWolf: Damn. That I would never have gotten that ever in a million years.

[24:46] Liz Esten: I knew that way too soon into my Chappell Roan fixation.

[24:53] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[24:55] Liz Esten: No, we're 0-0.

[24:56] Andrew DeWolf: You're still 0-0.

[24:57] Liz Esten: Okay. I'd say if you answer first, you should get two points. And if you answer second, you get one.

[25:01] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, Mike Stoklasa over here with the bullshit ass rules.

[25:04] Liz Esten: Alright, it's not a bullshit rule. That's a real rule. I'm gonna make this one not multiple choice.

[25:09] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[25:10] Liz Esten: Alright. You're just gonna have to guess. When you Google Chappell Roan, what does it say in the did you mean section of Google?

[25:18] Jesse McAnally: Dave Chappell.

[25:21] Liz Esten: No.

[25:22] Andrew DeWolf: Does it say Kaylee Rose Amstutz?

[25:27] Liz Esten: No, it says your favorite artist's favorite artist based on her famous viral Coachella speech where she said, my name is Chappell Roan, your favorite artist's favorite artist.

[25:36] Andrew DeWolf: That's incredible.

[25:38] Liz Esten: I love it.

[25:38] Andrew DeWolf: That's so funny. She later said on Jimmy Fallon, a shout out to the gay twink intern from Google who did that for me.

[25:43] Liz Esten: God bless you. And follow up question to that. Chappell Roan has said on record that quote is inspired by a drag queen that was.

[25:55] Andrew DeWolf: My name is Chappell Roan. I'm your favorite artist's favorite artist.

[26:00] Liz Esten: That's incredible. I love it.

[26:06] Liz Esten: She later said on Jimmy Fallon, a shout out to the gay twink intern from Google who did that for me. God bless you. Follow up question to that. Chappell Roan has said on record that quote is inspired by a drag queen that was on season 15 of RuPaul's Drag Race. Which one is it? A, Anitra. B, Sasha Colby. C, Mistress Isabel Brooks.

[26:35] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew's first.

[26:37] Andrew DeWolf: Mistress Isabel Brooks.

[26:39] Liz Esten: Fuck. I thought if I answered confidently enough, it would just will it into being true.

[26:46] Jesse McAnally: Yes, B, Sasha Colby.

[26:50] Liz Esten: Yes, you're correct.

[26:55] Andrew DeWolf: That's only one point.

[26:56] Liz Esten: That's one point.

[26:57] Andrew DeWolf: It's one more point than you got, bitch.

[27:00] Liz Esten: Here's some quick little lore for you. So drag draggers doesn't meet the queen's thing. And so Sasha Colby said in hers, I'm a Sasha Colby. I'm your favorite drag queen's favorite drag queen because she's very famous in the L.A. drag community and the trans community. So Chappell Roan loves her. So took the quote. So OK, what is the original title of Rise and Fall of the Midwest Princess?

[27:23] Jesse McAnally: Jess already knows it.

[27:25] Liz Esten: Alright, Andrew.

[27:27] Andrew DeWolf: I'm going to give Andrew a shot here. It's only fair.

[27:29] Andrew DeWolf: Is it Pink Pony Club?

[27:31] Liz Esten: No, Jess, just say it.

[27:33] Jesse McAnally: No, it was. It was Pink Pony Club.

[27:34] Liz Esten: No, it wasn't.

[27:35] Jesse McAnally: Oh, no, I know it. I know it. I know it.

[27:38] Jesse McAnally: "Feminomenon."

[27:41] Liz Esten: That's correct. She changed it because no one could pronounce it.

[27:46] Andrew DeWolf: I gave it a try, you know?

[27:48] Liz Esten: Alright. Here's a slightly weirder question. I'm just going to give you a numbers question. I'll do like two or three more after this.

[27:55] Andrew DeWolf: OK, sounds good.

[27:56] Liz Esten: How many views does the music video for My Kink is Karma have? I'm going to give you three numbers. OK. Ten million views. Six point five million views. Five point eight million views.

[28:14] Jesse McAnally: Jess.

[28:15] Jesse McAnally: A.

[28:16] Liz Esten: Wrong.

[28:16] Andrew DeWolf: Six point five.

[28:18] Liz Esten: Six point five million.

[28:19] Andrew DeWolf: Five point eight.

[28:21] Liz Esten: Really overestimated that one.

[28:23] Andrew DeWolf: I guess that's not the big hit, so.

[28:26] Liz Esten: No, no, it's not. I'm trying to think of what other else Jess might not know because Jess knows too much. And I put too much in here. OK, so. OK, OK. Very famously, Chappell drinks a very famous brand of soda on her single cover for Casual, and she got a lot of crap for it. What is that soda? A. Starry. B. Dr. Pepper. C. Baja Blast.

[28:51] Jesse McAnally: Jess.

[28:53] Jesse McAnally: I think it's Baja Blast.

[29:00] Liz Esten: It's Baja Blast. She got a lot of crap for it, but she loves Baja Blast.

[29:03] Andrew DeWolf: Why didn't she get more crap for Papa John?

[29:06] Liz Esten: Oh, they don't give it. People don't give a shit about that anymore. The funniest thing, I saw an interview with her a thousand years ago where they're like, why Papa John? She's like, I don't know, it's just pizza. If I had known that people are going to just bring me that for the rest of my life, I would have picked better.

[29:20] Andrew DeWolf: Papa John's had that fucking meltdown, right?

[29:23] Liz Esten: Like, yeah, yeah.

[29:24] Andrew DeWolf: He's not running it anymore.

[29:25] Liz Esten: It is a weird. He had a racist meltdown.

[29:28] Andrew DeWolf: He should have picked my personal favorite from the Northeast, Papa Gino's. Shout out to all the people that know about Papa Gino's.

[29:36] Liz Esten: Should have. If you're a Midwest princess, Little Caesars is it.

[29:40] Andrew DeWolf: You guys even like that.

[29:43] Liz Esten: I mean, Liz, I'm sorry you didn't. But Andrew, you liked that when you came down to Michigan and they like, the guy that owns Little Caesars paid Rosa Parks, like, house the entire rest of her life. Like, he's not a bad guy. He's like one of those weird billionaires that's ethical.

[30:00] Chappell Roan: Welcome to the show!

[30:30] Chappell Roan: I'm excited to be here and talk about my album.

[31:00] Chappell Roan: Let's dive into the music and the stories behind it.

[31:30] Chappell Roan: I think it's really important to connect with the audience through these songs.

[31:34] Chappell Roan: Each track has its own unique vibe and message.

[31:36] Chappell Roan: I hope listeners can find something relatable in my music.

[31:38] Chappell Roan: It's all about sharing experiences and emotions.

[31:40] Chappell Roan: I'm really proud of how this album turned out.

[31:42] Chappell Roan: The journey of creating it was incredible.

[31:44] Chappell Roan: I can't wait for everyone to hear it!

[31:46] Chappell Roan: Let's get into the first track.

[32:08] Chappell Roan: This song is really special to me.

[32:28] Chappell Roan: It captures a moment in my life that was transformative.

[32:56] Chappell Roan: I think it resonates with a lot of people.

[33:06] Chappell Roan: The lyrics reflect a sense of empowerment.

[33:34] Chappell Roan: I want listeners to feel inspired when they hear it.

[33:54] Chappell Roan: It's all about embracing who you are.

[34:18] Chappell Roan: I hope it encourages others to be their true selves.

[34:38] Chappell Roan: The next track has a different energy altogether.

[34:58] Chappell Roan: It's more upbeat and fun.

[35:26] Chappell Roan: I love performing it live!

[35:54] Chappell Roan: The crowd always gets into it.

[36:22] Chappell Roan: It's such a joy to see people enjoying the music.

[36:50] Chappell Roan: The album really showcases my range as an artist.

[37:12] Chappell Roan: I wanted to explore different sounds and styles.

[37:32] Chappell Roan: Each song tells a different story.

[37:52] Chappell Roan: I'm really excited for everyone to experience that.

[38:20] Chappell Roan: The next song is a bit more introspective.

[38:40] Chappell Roan: It dives into some deeper themes.

[39:08] Chappell Roan: I think it's important to have that balance in the album.

[39:36] Chappell Roan: It reflects the highs and lows of life.

[40:04] Chappell Roan: I hope it resonates with listeners on a personal level.

[40:32] Chappell Roan: The final track is a celebration of resilience.

[41:00] Chappell Roan: It's a reminder to keep pushing forward.

[41:10] Chappell Roan: I think it's a powerful way to close the album.

[41:30] Chappell Roan: Thank you for joining me on this journey.

[41:58] Chappell Roan: I can't wait for you all to hear the full album.

[42:24] Chappell Roan: Let's keep the conversation going!

[42:52] Chappell Roan: I love connecting with fans and hearing their thoughts.

[43:20] Chappell Roan: Your support means the world to me.

[43:48] Chappell Roan: Thank you for being part of this experience.

[44:16] Chappell Roan: Let's celebrate music together!

[44:44] Chappell Roan: I appreciate everyone tuning in.

[45:12] Chappell Roan: Until next time, keep shining!

[45:40] Chappell Roan: I look forward to sharing more with you soon.

[46:08] Chappell Roan: Take care and stay fabulous!

[46:36] Chappell Roan: Bye for now!

[47:04] Chappell Roan: See you next time!

[47:32] Chappell Roan: Keep listening to great music!

[48:00] Chappell Roan: I'm excited for what’s to come.

[48:16] Chappell Roan: Thank you all again!

[48:46] Chappell Roan: Let's keep the positivity flowing.

[49:06] Chappell Roan: Remember to be kind to yourself.

[49:34] Chappell Roan: You are enough just as you are.

[50:02] Chappell Roan: Let's make the world a better place through music.

[50:30] Chappell Roan: I'm grateful for each and every one of you.

[50:58] Chappell Roan: Keep dreaming big!

[51:26] Chappell Roan: The sky's the limit.

[51:54] Chappell Roan: Until next time, stay inspired!

[52:22] Chappell Roan: I can't wait to share more stories.

[52:50] Chappell Roan: Thank you for being here with me.

[53:18] Chappell Roan: Let's keep the magic alive.

[53:46] Chappell Roan: Music is a powerful thing.

[54:14] Chappell Roan: I hope it brings you joy.

[54:24] Chappell Roan: Take care of yourselves.

[54:52] Chappell Roan: I'll see you soon!

[55:20] Chappell Roan: Keep spreading love and positivity.

[55:48] Chappell Roan: Thank you for your support.

[56:16] Chappell Roan: I appreciate you all so much.

[56:44] Chappell Roan: Until next time, keep shining bright!

[57:13] Chappell Roan: Bye for now!

[57:41] Chappell Roan: Stay fabulous!

[58:09] Chappell Roan: I can't wait to connect again.

[58:37] Chappell Roan: Thank you for being part of this journey.

[59:05] Chappell Roan: Let's keep the music alive!

[59:33] Chappell Roan: See you next time!

[1:00:00] Chappell Roan: People say I'm jealous, but my kink is horrible. It's just, like, wanting the worst for them in every way. You know, it's great. You can't base your own satisfaction on someone else's misery, though. You're bound to get disappointed. It's not even that, though, to the argument of this song. It's mostly of, you live your life, you get your own sense of satisfaction. But in the back of your head, you're thinking, like, I hope that jackass is suffering. Like, you move on. He was on Facebook, and he invested in crypto at the right time, and now he's a billionaire. Well, that might happen, but the point really is, like, you don't, like, it's not to linger on, like, I want my ex to be sad. It's a, hey, I fucking hate him. I'm gonna move on and be better than him, and I hope he's miserable while I'm doing fantastic. So, it's more like that energy. But it's so fun. Oh, it's fun, too. I'm just putting too much meaning into it. Like, literally in her music video, she's dressed as the devil. Like, she knows what she's doing here.

[1:00:30] Liz Esten: Yeah, and she made it, like, independently with her friends, like, in Missouri. Like, she knocked that shit out.

[1:00:32] Chappell Roan: Like, this feels a little Katy Perry in the vibe.

[1:00:37] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[1:00:38] Chappell Roan: Like, I don't know. I don't know if I compare to Katy Perry nowadays with the woman's world thing, but okay.

[1:00:44] Liz Esten: Really, you keep saying Lady Gaga and Katy Perry, but I just don't hear any of that.

[1:00:48] Chappell Roan: I don't hear Lady Gaga or Katy Perry in this. I don't hear any in this song.

[1:00:53] Liz Esten: The instrumentation is too, like, lo-fi, I feel like.

[1:00:56] Chappell Roan: It's too 80s. I feel like none of you listen to art pop or, oh, what's a new one? Like, Alejandro and stuff like that.

[1:01:02] Liz Esten: I listen to Alejandro. I don't get chapel vibes from having listened to Alejandro.

[1:01:08] Chappell Roan: The modern, like, pop is too, like, power pop. Like, I don't know. It's got a different vibe.

[1:01:15] Liz Esten: The synths in this are very, you said 80s, Liz, which I think is right.

[1:01:19] Chappell Roan: Yeah, no, one of her biggest influences is Kate Bush, so.

[1:01:22] Liz Esten: I hear it.

[1:01:23] Chappell Roan: I hear that one a lot. Yeah, she takes a lot from Kate Bush and this, like, the Sofia Koval movie, The Beguiled.

[1:01:31] Liz Esten: She's influenced by that quite a bit with her aesthetic.

[1:01:33] Chappell Roan: Honestly, I wonder if the success of Running Up That Hill had anything to do with people being willing to accept this.

[1:01:39] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[1:01:40] Chappell Roan: I mean, if Stranger Things gave us Chaperone, I guess I owe it one thing positive it gave my life.

[1:01:46] Liz Esten: I feel like.

[1:01:47] Chappell Roan: Hey, Running Up That Hill is actually a good song.

[1:01:50] Liz Esten: Yeah, it got overplayed, though.

[1:01:52] Chappell Roan: I also do. I don't know. I don't know if Billie Eilish's album affected this at all, but I think her album being so, like, openly gay may have helped because people were more, like, willing to dive into this.

[1:02:04] Liz Esten: I mean, you know what? I have a mean opinion. Do we want another Jess being mean opinion?

[1:02:11] Chappell Roan: Yeah, sure.

[1:02:12] Liz Esten: Sure. I think JoJo Siwa showed that we wanted queer content. Just we don't want that.

[1:02:18] Chappell Roan: Yeah.

[1:02:19] Liz Esten: We don't want that.

[1:02:20] Chappell Roan: Who the fuck is JoJo Siwa?

[1:02:22] Liz Esten: You don't know who JoJo Siwa is?

[1:02:24] Chappell Roan: You are living a better life than me.

[1:02:26] Liz Esten: I got this.

[1:02:27] Chappell Roan: I got this, Jess.

[1:02:28] Liz Esten: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure?

[1:02:29] Chappell Roan: I got this, Jess. I got it. I got it.

[1:02:32] Liz Esten: I'm getting my phone out.

[1:02:35] Chappell Roan: You got this.

[1:02:36] Liz Esten: JoJo Siwa was on Dance Moms, and she was deeply traumatized from working with Abby Lee Miller. So, as a result, she makes terrible pop music now, and she said in an interview, I want to be the face of gay pop.

[1:03:00] Chappell Roan: She wants to invent gay pop, which is already a genre, by the by. So she made a music video that did very poorly called Karma, and I will play a part of it.

[1:03:06] Liz Esten: Karma's a bitch.

[1:03:08] Chappell Roan: I should've known better. If I had a wish, I would've never messed around. When I saw the pics of you and her, I felt the night twist. Karma's a bitch. And she's with you right now.

[1:03:25] Liz Esten: Honestly, I feel like the dance isn't even that bad.

[1:03:28] Chappell Roan: The fucking music is. The melody's terrible. And this is what JoJo Siwa looked like when they were younger.

[1:03:35] Liz Esten: I feel like that was just proto-Rebecca Black.

[1:03:38] Chappell Roan: Also, very notably, she shattered two of her vocal cords recording Karma, so now she just can't sing anymore. So she lip syncs all her concerts.

[1:03:46] Liz Esten: This turned into us making fun of JoJo Siwa.

[1:03:50] Chappell Roan: I love making fun of JoJo Siwa. She's a little traumatized, but she's not handling it super hot.

[1:03:56] Liz Esten: I mean, she turned 21 and then immediately started getting redonkulously drunk at Disney World and making it everyone's problem.

[1:04:03] Chappell Roan: And she pretended to drink at a London Pride event.

[1:04:08] Liz Esten: I can't believe you guys know this much about this person that I've never heard of in my fucking life.

[1:04:13] Chappell Roan: I'm too online, Andrew. I'm too online. I'm permanently online. I'm never offline.

[1:04:18] Liz Esten: My circles are different than your circles.

[1:04:22] Chappell Roan: Everything I've learned about JoJo Siwa has been against my will.

[1:04:26] Liz Esten: Let's move on.

[1:04:27] Chappell Roan: I know JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and I know JoJo Rabbit.

[1:04:30] Liz Esten: Let's move on.

[1:04:32] Chappell Roan: Picture You! It's about fucking online!

[1:04:35] Liz Esten: Yay!

[1:04:36] Chappell Roan: False sex!

[1:06:02] Liz Esten: I can't say half of the things I do when I picture you.

[1:06:12] Chappell Roan: False sex is kind of lame.

[1:06:14] Liz Esten: That's kind of what the song's about. It's like really about how FaceTime sex is really cringe.

[1:06:19] Chappell Roan: It's just jerking off with extra steps.

[1:06:22] Liz Esten: Fuck me!

[1:06:25] Chappell Roan: Also, sometimes she sings the song to a mic stand with a wig on it. Great. Perfect. I love it.

[1:06:32] Liz Esten: Classic.

[1:06:34] Chappell Roan: This is the song that she brought up taking the nudes in the coffee shop.

[1:06:38] Liz Esten: Which I also kind of think about like, yeah, it's stupid being online and making that.

[1:06:46] Chappell Roan: It reminds me a little bit of A Strange Loop. You know, about the dating online song In A Strange Loop. About how miserable it is and everyone's insulting your dick and all that.

[1:07:00] Liz Esten: It feels like this is hand in hand with that.

[1:07:03] Chappell Roan: I know that I keep bringing it to musical theater, but you know, it's been 10 years of doing musical theater content. There's no reason to stop talking about musical theater.

[1:07:10] Liz Esten: Yeah, why do we stop talking musical theater? We're just going to keep talking about it.

[1:07:13] Chappell Roan: We're not barring it, okay? We were joking, Jess.

[1:07:16] Liz Esten: Yes. I literally have a musical on my list, everyone. Even me, I have one.

[1:07:24] Chappell Roan: Yes, even Liz.

[1:07:26] Liz Esten: I don't because I'm sticking to my guns. I'm trying to get them to watch all the Starkid no one talks about.

[1:07:32] Chappell Roan: Yeah, like Harry Potter Musical 3.

[1:07:35] Liz Esten: No, fuck that. Fuck that. Starships, motherfucker.

[1:07:38] Chappell Roan: Let's talk about Kaleidoscope, which is the only song that Chaperone wrote alone on this.

[1:07:45] ♪ Musical number: "Kaleidoscope" — performed by Chappell Roan ♪

[1:08:32] Liz Esten: About her being in love with her best friend and how she confessed to that. So it's like, Andrew, let's put ourselves in that situation. You and I are good friends. I don't know if I'm your best friend, but you're definitely my best friend. And I just came to you and told you I was in love with you.

[1:08:44] Chappell Roan: And you said to me, yo, I gotta think about that for a minute.

[1:08:49] Liz Esten: This song is about the feeling I would have waiting for you to think about it.

[1:08:58] Chappell Roan: Yeah, I gotta think about that for a minute. Because love is a kaleidoscope, how it works I'll never know, and even all the change is somehow all the same.

[1:09:09] Liz Esten: Turn it to the left and right, colors shining in your eye.

[1:09:15] Chappell Roan: And even upside down, it's beautiful somehow.

[1:09:21] Liz Esten: It's never just a shape alone. Love is a kaleidoscope.

[1:09:27] Chappell Roan: It's really sad, it's really melancholy. It's kind of like that nervous energy feeling.

[1:09:34] Liz Esten: Bro, that's sad. Ruined a friendship and you don't have a girlfriend now.

[1:09:40] Chappell Roan: I think they're still friends.

[1:09:43] Liz Esten: They were fine, I'm pretty sure. Kind of like Jack Black and Kyle Gass, they're still friends.

[1:09:49] Chappell Roan: Now the gay people have left.

[1:09:52] Liz Esten: Are you gay?

[1:09:55] Chappell Roan: Tenacious D is one of the gayest movies ever made.

[1:09:58] Liz Esten: That's very true, that's very homoerotic.

[1:10:02] Chappell Roan: Yeah, but I like this. It's very sad, in a very specific feeling. A feeling that only young people can have. You know what I mean?

[1:10:11] Liz Esten: When's the last time you all had a crush?

[1:10:17] Chappell Roan: A crush is just one of those feelings that burn so intensely when you're young and you just don't have them anymore.

[1:10:23] Liz Esten: I don't know.

[1:10:26] Chappell Roan: Don't lie to yourself, Liz. We've all had that crush on Loki.

[1:10:32] Liz Esten: No, no, never Loki.

[1:10:35] Chappell Roan: Remember, it's in there.

[1:10:38] Liz Esten: My first crush was Chris Pine in Princess Diaries 2. I was 8 years old.

[1:10:44] Chappell Roan: That's a good one.

[1:10:47] Liz Esten: And then I watched Star Trek 2 as a 9 with my dad. I'm like, who the fuck is this guy and why am I already in love with him? And I googled him.

[1:10:56] Chappell Roan: Finally, Candace from Phineas and Ferb.

[1:10:59] Liz Esten: Oh, you're going that deep.

[1:11:02] Chappell Roan: Mine might have been subconsciously Robin Hood from the Fox movie.

[1:11:05] Liz Esten: Elastigirl.

[1:11:08] Chappell Roan: Moving on, Pink Pony Club.

[1:11:11] Liz Esten: That's a good one, she's got a dump truck.

[1:11:14] Chappell Roan: You know, something about her, I'm like, I like this lady.

[1:11:17] Liz Esten: She stretches it to look like that, I'm sorry, there's no way that's natural.

[1:11:20] Chappell Roan: She's had a BBL.

[1:11:23] Liz Esten: God, what have you done? You're a pink pony girl and you dance at the club, oh mama.

[1:11:32] Chappell Roan: I'm just having fun on the stage in my heels. It's where I belong, down at the Pink Pony Club.

[1:11:43] Liz Esten: I'm gonna keep on dancing at the Pink Pony Club.

[1:11:48] Chappell Roan: I'm gonna keep on dancing down in West Hollywood.

[1:11:52] Liz Esten: I'm gonna keep on dancing at the Pink Pony Club.

[1:11:57] Chappell Roan: Pink Pony Club.

[1:12:00] Liz Esten: I mean, not to say anything and to keep it about Chaperone.

[1:12:05] Chappell Roan: Chaperone really does show off her booty a lot. Almost like a twist ending to some songs where it's just discovering that she's wearing assless chaps.

[1:12:13] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[1:12:14] Chappell Roan: Much in very Elastigirl fashion.

[1:12:17] Liz Esten: I mean, what else are you gonna do?

[1:12:19] Chappell Roan: Um, I don't know. Wear slacks, I don't know.

[1:12:22] Liz Esten: Pink Pony Club!

[1:12:24] Chappell Roan: The first real song, gay album, or gay anthem, released in 2020. Basically defined the Chaperone tone as the first one.

[1:12:34] Liz Esten: Like, strangely she had a ton of negative feedback when it first released. And it's about finding yourself as a queer person and pressure about not being gay enough.

[1:12:43] Chappell Roan: And it makes her feel weirdly connected but disconnected from the queer community.

[1:12:47] Liz Esten: Which I feel, I get it. It's also about her admiration for just those people that can go on stage and like dance and perform.

[1:12:54] Chappell Roan: And how she can't, doesn't think she can do it right now.

[1:12:58] Liz Esten: Is it bad that I thought it was about her working at a strip club?

[1:13:01] Chappell Roan: It's that too.

[1:13:02] Liz Esten: I feel that.

[1:13:03] Chappell Roan: No, you're not wrong. It's about her admiration for go-go dancers. So you're actually not far off.

[1:13:09] Liz Esten: I mean, the mother being so upset that she's doing it. It really felt like she ran away from home and started working at a strip club.

[1:13:15] Chappell Roan: Yeah.

[1:13:17] Liz Esten: That's true.

[1:13:18] Chappell Roan: I mean, what is selling your soul to the corporate world but joining the Pink Pony Club?

[1:13:25] Liz Esten: Honestly, working at a strip club might be more dignified than working for a record label.

[1:13:29] Chappell Roan: Absolutely. Just ask Kesha.

[1:13:32] Liz Esten: She has a record label.

[1:13:36] Chappell Roan: I love this song. This song is like, if it comes on my shuffle, I will never skip it.

[1:13:41] Liz Esten: But I won't actively choose it the way I choose other Chaperone songs.

[1:13:46] Chappell Roan: Like, I need to listen to this right now. You know what I mean?

[1:13:49] Liz Esten: Like, it's iconic.

[1:13:50] Chappell Roan: No, I don't.

[1:13:51] Liz Esten: This song's great. I love it. This song's a banger.

[1:13:54] Chappell Roan: Yeah.

[1:13:55] Liz Esten: Also, one of my favorite parts about it is the music video, honestly.

[1:13:58] Chappell Roan: Especially because a lot of people accuse Chaperone of using drag culture to get further.

[1:14:05] Liz Esten: And she doesn't understand it because she's not a drag queen.

[1:14:08] Chappell Roan: Whatever the rhetoric, it's bullshit.

[1:14:10] Liz Esten: Crayola said she was.

[1:14:12] Chappell Roan: Yes, that's true. A drag queen named Crayola said she was.

[1:14:15] Liz Esten: Lady, that's correct in this case.

[1:14:16] Chappell Roan: Why do we have to gatekeep all this shit?

[1:14:18] Liz Esten: Is it really that complicated to be a drag queen and just put on a bunch of makeup and dance?

[1:14:22] Chappell Roan: To quote Mara Wilson, it sounds like you're gatekeeping.

[1:14:28] Liz Esten: Anyway, to my point.

[1:14:31] Chappell Roan: In the music video, she features—this is six years prior to now—she features two drag queens that aren't super famous, but famous enough if you know them.

[1:14:42] Liz Esten: That being Meatball, who famously did a drag routine as George Santos lip syncing This Is Me from The Greatest Showman.

[1:14:51] Chappell Roan: Please look it up. I watch it all the time when I'm sad. It's credibly iconic.

[1:14:58] Liz Esten: Also featuring Victoria Porkchop Parker, who is known for being the first person to ever be booted off of Drag Race back in 2009.

[1:15:06] Chappell Roan: So, I just really like that they have a presence in the music video, especially Meatball, who is fucking wacky.

[1:15:11] Liz Esten: Rehabaron understands drag more than any of you straight chick Drag Race fans understand, okay?

[1:15:23] Chappell Roan: Okay, Drag Race Twitter?

[1:15:26] Liz Esten: Hey, I'm sorry, Liz!

[1:15:28] Chappell Roan: Sorry.

[1:15:29] Liz Esten: I'm sorry I claimed to know about drag culture!

[1:15:31] Chappell Roan: Sorry, Drag Race Twitter is very toxic and full of straight women who pretend they know what drag is.

[1:15:35] Liz Esten: Sounds almost like theater Twitter.

[1:15:37] Chappell Roan: Basically, yeah.

[1:15:39] Liz Esten: Drag is when you put on a bunch of makeup and have a good time.

[1:15:42] Chappell Roan: Dragon is the female character from Shrek, naked in Manhattan.

[1:15:45] Liz Esten: True.

[1:15:46] Chappell Roan: Love the song.

[1:15:47] Liz Esten: Me, baby, but your lips are mine.

[1:15:51] Chappell Roan: Could go to hell, but we'll probably be fine.

[1:15:55] Liz Esten: I know you want it.

[1:15:56] Chappell Roan: Baby, you can have it.

[1:15:58] Liz Esten: Oh, I've never done it.

[1:16:00] Chappell Roan: Let's make it cinematic like the ones I've seen the time before.

[1:16:05] Liz Esten: Less than dry.

[1:16:07] Chappell Roan: I wanna know, baby, what is it like?

[1:16:11] Liz Esten: I know you want it.

[1:16:13] Chappell Roan: Baby, you can have it.

[1:16:15] Liz Esten: Oh, I've never done it.

[1:16:17] Chappell Roan: Naked in Manhattan.

[1:16:19] Liz Esten: Touch me, baby.

[1:16:21] Chappell Roan: Touch me, touch me, touch me, touch me.

[1:16:23] Liz Esten: Touch me, baby.

[1:16:25] Chappell Roan: Naked in Manhattan.

[1:16:28] Liz Esten: I love this song, too, but this is kind of the last one that I love on the album, so I always get sad when it comes.

[1:16:35] Chappell Roan: You know, you can just pick a different song.

[1:16:37] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[1:16:38] Chappell Roan: You just go back.

[1:16:40] Liz Esten: You just go back.

[1:16:41] Chappell Roan: You don't have to go to the next one.

[1:16:45] Liz Esten: You know, I just feel like I listen to albums beginning to end because I always know that there's an intentional choice.

[1:16:46] Chappell Roan: I find listening to albums on shuffle kind of ridiculous.

[1:16:49] Liz Esten: It's a musical theater, kidding me. Call me stupid.

[1:16:52] Chappell Roan: Um, but this one feels like, you know, kind of the 11 o'clock number to what is wrapping up on this album. You know what I mean?

[1:17:00] Liz Esten: Mm-hmm.

[1:17:01] Chappell Roan: And I love it. Queer Teenage Dream.

[1:17:03] Liz Esten: I love it.

[1:17:04] Chappell Roan: Yeah.

[1:17:05] Liz Esten: Also, I love the random Mahal and Dry reference. Again, specificity. Really good specificity.

[1:17:11] Chappell Roan: One last song that isn't on the album, but I think is important, and it is redefining all of it.

[1:17:15] Liz Esten: Good luck, babe.

[1:17:17] Chappell Roan: I don't wanna call it off.

[1:17:19] Liz Esten: But you don't wanna call it love.

[1:17:21] Chappell Roan: You only wanna be the one that I call baby.

[1:17:24] Liz Esten: You can kiss all the boys in Mars.

[1:17:28] Chappell Roan: Shoot another shot just to stop the feeling.

[1:17:32] Liz Esten: You can say it just the way you are.

[1:17:36] Chappell Roan: Make another excuse for stupid reason.

[1:17:40] Liz Esten: Good luck, wait a minute.

[1:17:42] Chappell Roan: Well, good luck, wait a minute.

[1:17:44] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[1:17:45] Chappell Roan: Just shut the world just to stop the feeling.

[1:17:49] Liz Esten: Good luck, wait a minute.

[1:17:51] Chappell Roan: Well, good luck, wait a minute.

[1:17:53] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[1:17:54] Chappell Roan: Just shut the world just to stop the feeling.

[1:17:57] Liz Esten: This song fucks.

[1:17:58] Chappell Roan: This song fucks and rocks and all that. It is obviously made for her sophomore album, which is still to come.

[1:18:05] Liz Esten: And if this is a sign for what's coming, the second album is gonna be better than the first.

[1:18:10] Chappell Roan: Yeah.

[1:18:11] Liz Esten: You know, I didn't listen to this one.

[1:18:13] Chappell Roan: You should.

[1:18:14] Liz Esten: Yeah, listen to it. It's really, really good.

[1:18:16] Chappell Roan: It's a lot about comphet, which we need to talk about more.

[1:18:21] Liz Esten: What is comphet, if you don't mind me asking?

[1:18:24] Chappell Roan: Comphet is defined as compulsory or compulsive heterosexuality. So basically, it's the idea that if you're bi or pan or whatever sexuality you are, that's a little more fluid. Because of society's rules and structures and stuff, you feel this need to be with a person of the opposite sex if you're a woman.

[1:18:36] Liz Esten: Or a man.

[1:18:37] Chappell Roan: Is that so true? If you're a man, you want society gearing you towards being with someone of the opposite sex, basically. Even though that's not a thing.

[1:18:44] Liz Esten: ContraPoints has a great video exploring this in actual detail. I would definitely recommend watching that. That's where I first learned about it.

[1:18:51] Chappell Roan: But it's really just about steering away from happiness with someone of the same gender just to live this suburban life you think you want.

[1:19:01] Liz Esten: Because that's what the world and your parents and society is telling you you want.

[1:19:06] Chappell Roan: I thought it was more than just that.

[1:19:08] Liz Esten: I thought it was everyone.

[1:19:10] Chappell Roan: It's all of society pushing everyone in society towards doing that.

[1:19:14] Liz Esten: It's complicated.

[1:19:16] Chappell Roan: It's a lot. I have to look up quotes and stuff to explain it properly.

[1:19:21] Liz Esten: I thought when I think of aggressive heterosexuality, the image of Andrew DeWolf just pops into my head.

[1:19:29] Andrew DeWolf: I am the straightest man alive.

[1:19:31] Chappell Roan: That is true.

[1:19:33] Andrew DeWolf: Actually, no.

[1:19:34] Chappell Roan: Straight people listen to this album now.

[1:19:36] Andrew DeWolf: I was going to say, if you listened back in March, you probably wouldn't be.

[1:19:39] Chappell Roan: I mean, I probably did. My girlfriend was playing it for me.

[1:19:42] Andrew DeWolf: That's true.

[1:19:43] Chappell Roan: Which doesn't say very good things for our relationship.

[1:19:46] Andrew DeWolf: I'm definitely getting dumb soon.

[1:19:48] Chappell Roan: Knee deep in the chassenger's seat.

[1:19:51] Andrew DeWolf: My boyfriend is also scared.

[1:19:53] Chappell Roan: I got a little scared when I listened to Sterling Chaparro.

[1:19:56] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not.

[1:19:57] Chappell Roan: I'm secure enough in my relationship to know I'll never be as good as a woman.

[1:20:02] Andrew DeWolf: He listens to the album and he's like, this album fucking slaps. It's great. Let's listen to it in the car.

[1:20:10] Chappell Roan: And I'm like, yes!

[1:20:11] Liz Esten: Yeah, I will never be as good as a feminine nominon.

[1:20:17] Chappell Roan: A what?

[1:20:18] Liz Esten: A feminine nominon!

[1:20:19] Chappell Roan: It's time for our overall thoughts and our cheese ratings of The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess.

[1:20:25] Liz Esten: It's weird because it's like the Fall and Rise of a Midwest Princess, if you think about it.

[1:20:29] Andrew DeWolf: That's the title of many articles.

[1:20:31] Chappell Roan: Andrew! Start it off, Andrew. What's your cheese rating and overall thoughts?

[1:20:36] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so I'm a big fan of the opener feminine nominon and casual and hot to go. What is your favorite, if you don't mind me asking?

[1:20:49] Liz Esten: Pink Pony Club is my favorite. It's the most fun. It's maybe the straight man choice, but I am a straight man, so I will make the straight man choice.

[1:20:56] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I really like that song. Um, it has a, like an older kind of vibe to it than some pop, which I think is what a lot of people are liking right now.

[1:21:07] Chappell Roan: Um, it's got kind of a, I don't know if lo-fi is the right term, but that's what I'm going to say because I can't describe it properly.

[1:21:15] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it's got a lo-fi kind of vibe and it still has energy though, so it's not, I can't stand music that has no energy.

[1:21:24] Chappell Roan: I don't want, I don't want background music. I want music that's going to make me listen to it, so it has that.

[1:21:32] Andrew DeWolf: It demands to be noticed.

[1:21:34] Chappell Roan: Yes.

[1:21:35] Andrew DeWolf: Exactly. I don't want any music that I can just put on and it's in the background and I don't have to think about it. Anything like that, not interested at all.

[1:21:45] Chappell Roan: Um, so for a, uh, cheese, I'm going to give it a bacon cheddar cheese. Just, just cause I was just kind of feeling it. It feels like kind of a Tennessee type cheese.

[1:21:57] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and honestly it would be really good on pizza too.

[1:22:01] Chappell Roan: So get it hot to go.

[1:22:03] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Papa John's.

[1:22:07] Chappell Roan: No, no Papa John's.

[1:22:09] Andrew DeWolf: Papa John's fucking sucks.

[1:22:10] Chappell Roan: I'm sorry. I don't care how good the name is.

[1:22:12] Andrew DeWolf: She didn't say Papa John's.

[1:22:13] Chappell Roan: Papa John's sucks.

[1:22:15] Liz Esten: Um, that's fair.

[1:22:17] Chappell Roan: Liz, it's your turn. What is your overall thoughts on your cheese rating and your favorite Chaperone song?

[1:22:22] Liz Esten: Uh, I love this album. I love this album so dearly. I will listen to it tomorrow and on the next day and probably every day for the next many months.

[1:22:30] Chappell Roan: Um, I, every song will just like hit a certain mood as I need it. Even the slow stuff. Cause you know, sometimes you just want to listen to sad music and like, that's fine.

[1:22:39] Liz Esten: It doesn't mean you're sad. It just means you like music. Like I like it.

[1:22:42] Chappell Roan: Um, I listened to it. If you haven't, you probably already have most likely cause that fucking popular and popping lately.

[1:22:49] Liz Esten: Um, it's a feminine nominant.

[1:22:51] Chappell Roan: It really is though.

[1:22:52] Liz Esten: Uh, my favorite song, it's, it's like, it changes every day. Genuinely.

[1:22:56] Chappell Roan: Um, it's probably my kink is karma.

[1:23:02] Liz Esten: Um, or pig pony club. It's really, it's like a rotating between the two of them.

[1:23:08] Chappell Roan: I love pink pony club so much.

[1:23:10] Liz Esten: It's like one of my favorite songs recently.

[1:23:12] Chappell Roan: Um, so I'm going to give, uh, rise and fall Midwest princess little Lucy Brie from the redhead creamery.

[1:23:20] Liz Esten: Cause she's a redhead. Kind of. I don't know. Apparently they're in Minnesota too. So just like Tim Walls, Tim Walls.

[1:23:28] Chappell Roan: Yes.

[1:23:29] Liz Esten: Um, all right. This album is incredible. The only pop album I've ever really latched onto that wasn't written by Lady Gaga.

[1:23:36] Chappell Roan: I really, really feel compelled by this and I will listen to this a thousand times and I hope covering on the show won't make me lose my appreciation for it.

[1:23:43] Liz Esten: Like a lot of musical theater albums have.

[1:23:45] Chappell Roan: Um, I cannot recommend this enough. My favorite songs are probably kaleidoscope and kink is karma.

[1:23:52] Liz Esten: My kink is karma probably beats it out just a touch, but truly no skips except for maybe the last two, but they make up for it by having good luck, babe, as the little chaser, in my own opinion.

[1:24:04] Chappell Roan: I am giving this a brie cheese because apparently that pairs well with red wine, supernova and magician.

[1:24:10] Liz Esten: That works too.

[1:24:13] Chappell Roan: All right, you guys, it's time to spin the wheel for what we're covering next week.

[1:24:20] Liz Esten: I can't wait to find out what fucking weird ass shit is going to be on this goddamn wheel.

[1:24:26] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, do we have any predictions?

[1:24:28] Liz Esten: I don't know.

[1:24:29] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. Maybe Andrew or I are next, but I think like spy kids or maybe I don't get too excited.

[1:24:40] Chappell Roan: All right. Ready?

[1:24:41] Liz Esten: Count us down.

[1:24:43] Chappell Roan: Spinning the wheel.

[1:24:44] Andrew DeWolf: Three, two, one.

[1:24:48] Liz Esten: Whoa.

[1:24:49] Chappell Roan: It's spinning.

[1:24:50] Liz Esten: Look at it go.

[1:24:52] Chappell Roan: All right.

[1:24:57] Liz Esten: And it is landed on Waitress, the 2007 movie, as suggested by Liz Esten.

[1:25:04] Chappell Roan: So next week we are talking about Waitress again, but this time the movie, the movie, the same thing with no songs this time.

[1:25:11] Liz Esten: We're going backwards.

[1:25:13] Chappell Roan: We're getting rid of the songs.

[1:25:18] Liz Esten: I feel like we didn't go when we had our wonderful guest Grace Aki on. We didn't really go into the poor state of what happened to the lady that directed the Waitress film for reasons.

[1:25:30] Chappell Roan: It just wasn't about that.

[1:25:33] Liz Esten: But I think we should talk about that more.

[1:25:37] Chappell Roan: Yeah, we'll definitely get into it.

[1:25:39] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[1:25:41] Chappell Roan: I hope you guys get a hype because thank you guys for listening.

[1:25:44] Liz Esten: Please follow us on iTunes and Spotify at the Cheese Wheel Podcast.

[1:25:47] Chappell Roan: Follow us on Twitter at Cheese Wheel Cast.

[1:25:50] Liz Esten: Hey, it's official. Big Beak's already made a comment on it, so he's already made fun of us for not being as updated as we could be.

[1:25:59] Chappell Roan: We're on Patreon at the Cheese Wheel, Instagram at the Cheese Wheel, something like that.

[1:26:03] Liz Esten: YouTube page, we have Patreon only podcast, Patreon with Cheese.

[1:26:06] Chappell Roan: Emails at musicaltheaterlives.gmail.com.

[1:26:08] Liz Esten: Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio.

[1:26:10] Chappell Roan: Thank you for following us on to this new adventure.

[1:26:12] Liz Esten: I hope you're still liking the show.

[1:26:13] Chappell Roan: This show is edited and produced by Andrew DeWolf, who also wrote our theme song.

[1:26:18] Liz Esten: I hope it's really cool.

[1:26:19] Chappell Roan: I have not heard it yet.

[1:26:21] Liz Esten: Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for, you know, talking about eating out on the passenger seat.

[1:26:29] Chappell Roan: You know, I just really like Popeyes that much.

[1:26:31] Liz Esten: We'll see you next time on the Cheese Wheel Podcast.

[1:26:34] Chappell Roan: Bye-bye.

[1:26:35] Liz Esten: Bye-bye.

[1:26:48] Chappell Roan: Hit it like rum pum pum pum.

[1:26:50] Liz Esten: Get it hot like Papa John.

[1:26:51] Chappell Roan: Make a bitch go on and on.

[1:26:53] Liz Esten: It's a feminine nominon.