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[0:24] Jess: Hello and welcome to another extra special episode of Theatre in the D. And this week, we're talking about Hell's Kitchen. And I am joined, not by Miranda Moffat, this week, I'm joined by my good friend, Namazne Charola. Say hello, Namazne.

[0:40] Namazne Chirolla: Hi, Jesse. How's it going?

[0:42] Jess: It's going good. It's interesting because podcasting is such a thing that shouldn't exist. It is such a not natural thing. We've been hanging out all night. And truly, this is the most buttoned up we've been.

[0:54] Namazne Chirolla: I know, it really is.

[0:56] Jess: Like, we've been doing wild and out shit.

[0:58] Namazne Chirolla: Yeah, a couple things, you know, went to the thing, did the other thing.

[1:02] Jess: So many things. And now it is fucking midnight.

[1:05] Namazne Chirolla: Almost. We got two minutes.

[1:06] Jess: All right. And Miranda was not able to join me. And you were so keen to join me to talk about Alicia Keys' musical Hell's Kitchen. Did you know anything? Do you have any history with Alicia Keys, first and foremost?

[1:20] Namazne Chirolla: It's so funny you asked, Jesse. Actually, one of my very first, one of my first slow dances in middle school was to an Alicia Keys concert.

[1:28] Jess: A concert?

[1:29] Namazne Chirolla: Nope, not an Alicia Keys song. I was at a school dance.

[1:33] Jess: Okay. What was the song?

[1:35] Namazne Chirolla: No One.

[1:36] Jess: Oh, yeah.

[1:36] Namazne Chirolla: Which is like a very interesting choice of first dance songs.

[1:41] Jess: I mean...

[1:42] Namazne Chirolla: It was of the time, though.

[1:43] Jess: Yeah. Alicia Keys feels like a thing that belongs in the early 2000s, with respect to her.

[1:48] Namazne Chirolla: I would say early to mid, but she's still doing it.

[1:51] Jess: I guess. I know nothing about Alicia Keys. In fact, you had to tell me, what songs are Alicia Keys songs?

[1:57] Namazne Chirolla: And I sang them for you on the way in. And you're like, wow, this is the best singer I've ever heard. Aside from Alicia Keys.

[2:03] Jess: You sing Alicia Keys better than Alicia Keys.

[2:06] Namazne Chirolla: That's honestly my review of Hell's Kitchen. They sing Alicia Keys better than Alicia Keys.

[2:12] Jess: Um, no, I did not know much about this show, except when they performed at the Tony Awards. This number, they got a lot of celebrities. I'm pretty sure Jay-Z was there. And it was the opening number. I was like, man, this looks like an exciting and fun kind of show.

[2:30] Namazne Chirolla: Yeah.

[2:30] Jess: And I would say it lived up and just had a different vibe than it did at the Tonys. First and foremost, I think this will mean a lot more to Alicia Keys fans than us to relatively Alicia Keys agnostics.

[2:45] Namazne Chirolla: Yeah, I would say probably it would be a lot better.

[2:48] Jess: No, you would understand the story a lot better knowing more about Alicia.

[2:52] Namazne Chirolla: I don't know if that's the truth. I bet there's reference. I was waiting for because, like, I've seen the Cher show. I've seen other jukebox musicals like this. And I was waiting for the moments where they're going to say the thing that they're known for saying and they never got there was never like that break for applause moment where, you know, she turns to the audience and says the thing.

[3:10] Jess: You know what I mean?

[3:10] Namazne Chirolla: Yeah, that's fair.

[3:11] Jess: And that was just the kind of thing I was expecting. I appreciate the fact that it was a real story. So the music and lyrics are by Alicia Keys. The orchestrations were by Broadway veteran Tom Kitt, who did Next to Normal and is now just he doesn't really write musicals anymore. He just kind of orchestrates pop stars' music into musicals like he did the SpongeBob musical.

[3:31] Namazne Chirolla: Oh, I bet that's wonderful.

[3:33] Jess: Freudian slip there. I am a SpongeBob purist.

[3:37] Namazne Chirolla: It must be the TV show.

[3:38] Jess: I love it all. David Bowie's last song he ever wrote was for the SpongeBob musical.

[3:43] Namazne Chirolla: I'm not even joking.

[3:44] Jess: Well, I also have never seen it or listened to it. Have you seen Wicked?

[3:47] Namazne Chirolla: As a film?

[3:48] Jess: Yes, as a film.

[3:49] Namazne Chirolla: I've seen Wicked Part One.

[3:50] Jess: The little munchkin boy.

[3:51] Namazne Chirolla: He's SpongeBob.

[3:53] Jess: Oh, I forgot about that.

[3:54] Namazne Chirolla: I thought he was Ariana Grande's boyfriend.

[3:56] Jess: He's also that.

[3:57] Namazne Chirolla: He is SpongeBob and he's Ariana Grande's boyfriend. And I think the songs work as well as they can for this story. The book was not the best. But, you know, for a jukebox musical, there's so much. And I think when we're focusing on the mother storyline, this really sings. It really works.

[4:17] Jess: When we're focusing on the romance storyline, things were not as compelling, despite the fact that the actor that played—well, you'll remember his name.

[4:26] Namazne Chirolla: It was Tuck Tug.

[4:27] Jess: Nuck.

[4:28] Namazne Chirolla: Nuck.

[4:29] Jess: Singular.

[4:30] Namazne Chirolla: Nuck with a K.

[4:31] Jess: CK. Nuck. He is the older gentleman that this 17-year-old tricks into having sex with. She tricks him into dating. They've dated for like three weeks per the story.

[4:42] Namazne Chirolla: Yes.

[4:42] Jess: Which coincidentally is as long as it took her for him to finally break up with her.

[4:46] Namazne Chirolla: Yes.

[4:47] Jess: Took three and a half weeks.

[4:48] Namazne Chirolla: So all in all, six and a half weeks. I mean, I feel like I'm getting ahead of myself. What would you describe the plot of Hell's Kitchen to be?

[4:54] Namazne Chirolla: I feel like there's three plots going on.

[4:56] Jess: Yes.

[4:57] Namazne Chirolla: And they are not created equally.

[4:59] Jess: No. I agree 100% the story of the mom, I felt was probably the best aspect of the musical.

[5:08] Namazne Chirolla: And that actress was killing it.

[5:10] Jess: Killing it.

[5:11] Namazne Chirolla: She's the only one that got an applause break, and there's a lot of moments where they were really hoping for applause breaks. She just, she had the talent for it.

[5:18] Jess: She did a great job.

[5:20] Namazne Chirolla: It was in her genes.

[5:21] Jess: It was in her genes. And then there's the story, the romance aspect between Allie and Nuck, which I'm sure as it unfolded in real life was very exciting and fun. The thing that stuck out to me the most about that whole thing was like, he's sitting there having that conversation with her and he's like, but you're kind of pretty. And that's all she focused on because I was sitting there. I was like, oh, that's all I would think of too. So it was so incredibly a 17-year-old girl. Because I was like, oh, you think I'm pretty. That's exactly what I would have focused on. Nothing else. I don't even remember anything else he said.

[6:02] Namazne Chirolla: Oh my gosh.

[6:09] Namazne Chirolla: Alicia Keys coming into her own with the piano and her.

[6:13] Jess: Yes, her mentor.

[6:14] Namazne Chirolla: Mentor.

[6:15] Jess: Which is a fine, a fine.

[6:19] Namazne Chirolla: If predictable, it really works.

[6:21] Jess: And that actress really sells that moment. Like there are moments on stage. But the moment you kind of see her, you're like, oh, I know where this is going.

[6:28] Namazne Chirolla: Correct.

[6:29] Jess: Yes, it is very, very exactly what it is supposed to be. And that's not a bad thing. Like this is the most jukebox musical jukebox musical ever.

[6:39] Namazne Chirolla: You were not there when Miranda and I saw MJ the musical.

[6:42] Jess: No, I was not.

[6:43] Namazne Chirolla: We did not record an episode on that. But I don't mean to talk that that was an interminable experience. And I like Michael Jackson music. Love Michael Jackson. I knew the songs going into that. And that was just not a fun thing to watch. This was a blast to watch. Like you were describing the Nemo or Namazne and I shared looks every time there was a dance break.

[6:56] Jess: I mean, not gonna lie. Those were the times where I was like, you know, kind of fading out. We did have, okay, so I can't jump around. So that is the first two plots. And then we have plot three, which is.

[7:10] Jess: They were there were so many of them. And I'm not going to lie. Some of them felt unnecessary.

[7:16] Namazne Chirolla: I disagree. They are all necessary because we need the ensemble to do something.

[7:21] Jess: But did we need them in the apartment with Ali and her mom? When it's just the two of them in the one-bedroom apartment in New York?

[7:28] Namazne Chirolla: Perhaps not.

[7:29] Jess: I don't know. It depends on the song. It depends on the moment. I'll give you that through the miracle of musical.

[7:35] Namazne Chirolla: You were fine with the backup dancers until the ending when they break the fourth wall, when the mother gives them chips.

[7:42] Jess: I had accepted them by that time. I had come to terms with that. They were just the inner expression of what was happening on stage. And then that happened. I was like, they're actually in this apartment right now.

[7:53] Namazne Chirolla: They just break in.

[7:54] Jess: That's why the mom's giving so many rules like these people to break into our house. The streets are not safe and they're not any safer in this apartment.

[8:03] Namazne Chirolla: This one-bedroom apartment on the 42nd floor.

[8:06] Jess: I thought all the actors across the board are great.

[8:09] Namazne Chirolla: Oh, fantastic.

[8:10] Jess: I it doesn't feel as gritty as I bet it did on Broadway. Like this kind of felt probably a little more sanitized. And that's kind of the way that tours feel. There was an awkward moment in the book where they did not consider how it would read when it comes to Detroit.

[8:24] Namazne Chirolla: I'm telling you, every city they stop in, they say, I'm thinking of moving to Cincinnati.

[8:31] Jess: I don't think that's the case because I think this was specifically a Motown reference.

[8:35] Namazne Chirolla: Perhaps.

[8:37] Jess: But it's so crazy. Like, let's set the scene. In the last act of the story, Allie's boyfriend, Nuck, is deciding he can't be with her. And he says, you know, I have a cousin down in Detroit. And he takes like a natural breath. And then the audience goes, whoa, whoa. And he's like, and they're offering me a job there. And they have a serious conversation and they're trying their best to hold it together. And then poor Allie's just like, you can't move to Detroit. And someone's like, why not? And then she's like, actually, I'm not going to try and convince you not to move to Detroit. It was just like one of those things. I'm like, man, I bet that would play a lot differently in New York.

[9:22] Namazne Chirolla: Same with the end song.

[9:23] Jess: The New York Empire State of Mind.

[9:26] Namazne Chirolla: Yeah, that song. I bet that really like sends people out great when they're like, all the tourists are going back out into the big city. But in Detroit, it's just like, oh, yeah, it's a good song.

[9:36] Jess: Yeah, it's a good song.

[9:37] Namazne Chirolla: I don't know.

[9:38] Jess: Yeah, it probably hits better there. I think all of it would probably hit slightly different.

[9:43] Namazne Chirolla: Yeah.

[9:43] Jess: Just because being there and it being there. Can I tell you?

[9:46] Namazne Chirolla: Yes.

[9:47] Jess: The micro... Do you know who Patti LuPone is?

[9:49] Namazne Chirolla: I've heard of her.

[9:51] Jess: She was doing a play next door to Hell's Kitchen when it was on Broadway. For some reason, I think it was the New York Times or it made up in the New York Post. Some New York rag did an interview with Patti LuPone and she's like, it's just horrible noise next door ruining our show. It's just trash. I hate it. Honestly, it should not be on the Broadway. Not the Broadway. It's just like that was my interpretation of Hell's Kitchen. And I'm like, how can any human being describe what that show was that way is baffling to me. I thought it was like generally pretty nice. It's a good time.

[10:30] Namazne Chirolla: It's fun.

[10:31] Jess: It's low key. I really love the sexual agency our lead character has. I felt like she was a complete person without feeling like, you know, the mom tropes.

[10:42] Namazne Chirolla: Right.

[10:42] Jess: Even though they're kind of there. They're there. But she's very much rebelling against her mother and coming into her own. This is another one of those musicals where I think Act Two is a lot better than Act One. And that's a rare one. Act One, we're doing a lot of setup and you kind of feel like, I don't know where this is going. And then Act Two, we really focus on the mom story and the absent father story and it really, really comes home.

[11:04] Namazne Chirolla: Yeah, I agree.

[11:05] Jess: Because the dad kind of takes over. Spoiler is the mentor position of the previous mentor. And it's kind of nice that it's her dad now.

[11:12] Namazne Chirolla: Yeah.

[11:13] Jess: There's a whole thing with the mom saying like, oh, you're not her mother. I'm her mother. And then she passes and the dad kind of fills in that role. And it's nice that the absent dad kind of stepped up for her in that way. How did you feel about the interpretation that that one song, Some People Want It All, was written for her as a child?

[11:32] Namazne Chirolla: I'm not going to lie to you. There were a couple songs, that being one of them, that just felt... I understand that they have to put Alicia Keys big hits in this, but it also was like, okay, all right. It was a weird thing to listen to.

[12:16] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I could... White passing, at the very least. And she talks mostly, like, transatlantic theatre voice throughout... Definitely not New Jersey, as she was described several times as being a Jersey girl. Yeah, and then she sings this Alicia Keys number and she's using the language of Alicia Keys and sort of like, instead of saying going, saying gone, and it just... It sounds like a theatre kid trying to read hip-hop, and it rang hollow for me a little bit.

[12:45] Jess: That's fair, I kind of got the same feeling during "Empire State of Mind." I was like, wow, this is definitely what I would have sung in choir. This is the middle school choir interpretation of this song.

[12:56] Mnemosyne Chirolla: We do want to talk a little bit. In our show, particularly, because I love live theatre, because anything can happen, we had a stop during the song "Kaleidoscope" in Act 1.

[13:06] Jess: Yes, we did. And I love trying to guess why stops happen sometimes.

[13:11] Mnemosyne Chirolla: And for a technical thing, it lasted, I want to say, about 20-30 minutes? Long enough for them to announce that they were stopping for technical difficulties, have a couple minutes, come back and say we would be about 10 minutes, and then long enough for me still to go to the restroom, get refills on our pops, and then return.

[13:28] Jess: Yes. So, it was a minute.

[13:29] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Yes, and you heard in the bathroom that there was a prop malfunction?

[13:33] Jess: The rumor circulating was that there was a prop issue.

[13:37] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Okay, and I was watching, and this may be me reading into things, but the actress playing our lead looked a little concerned and a little out of it. She was doing a dance move that involved her making an X over her head. And I don't recall, because when we started the show again, that was not part of the choreography anymore.

[13:59] Jess: I did not notice that. The choreography got bigger.

[14:02] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Interesting. I was like, huh. I think it was part of the piano, because after watching the show, the piano is a big part of everything, and that probably needs to be load-bearing.

[14:12] Jess: Yes, they're also dancing on it a lot.

[14:14] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Yes, so I'm like, if something kind of broke there, that could be a show-stopping reason. But I also noticed one of the ensemble members got swapped out.

[14:23] Jess: Yes.

[14:24] Mnemosyne Chirolla: And I was like, I wonder if an injury or something? But yeah, I kind of like the stop, because it kind of let me get re-centered and get refocused in.

[14:34] Jess: I agree. The stop was nice. It gave everyone a moment. We both had to pee.

[14:38] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I did have to use the restroom. Lovely restroom.

[14:41] Jess: The lines aren't as bad as they say.

[14:43] Mnemosyne Chirolla: No, they're quick-moving. I think when, I don't know, technical things are always kind of like, oh, we saw it there, and we had that moment, and it doesn't take me out of it. I get why it does for other people, but I kind of like it as part of the magic of theater.

[14:55] Jess: But was that the first time you've had a stop at a piece of musical theater?

[14:59] Mnemosyne Chirolla: It was. It was the first time I've had a stop. But my musical theater experience is limited, and I mostly go to ballets.

[15:05] Jess: That's the, I did not know that about you. I can learn new things still.

[15:12] Mnemosyne Chirolla: And I'm pretty sure the show just goes on if someone breaks an ankle. I'm not sure. I've never seen that.

[15:15] Jess: They shoot them like a horse. You know, put them out of their misery.

[15:19] Mnemosyne Chirolla: No, no, no, I'll dance again, I'll dance again! I'll dance again, Papa, I swear!

[15:24] Jess: Was there any other highlights of the show for you?

[15:27] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Um, okay, so this is really like, a small thing, but I did like, during the main song between Nuck and Allie, when they were dancing on the scaffolding, and they spun the scaffolding around so we could see them easier without the stairs in the way. I was like, wow, that's a nice thing for them to do for us, the audience.

[15:44] Jess: And I was like, it really opens up the scaffolding, like, they were so boxed in before, and like, that's such a dumb thing to notice, but I was like, wow, I appreciate that they did that.

[15:55] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I also did notice there was a lot to look at as far as hair goes. She got a perm in Act 2, which also confused me.

[16:01] Jess: She got a- no, she didn't have a perm. She just had her hair pulled back in the first act, and then she took the ponytail down.

[16:06] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I guess I just- yeah, you're right. For some reason, it's like- I was very hair-focused during this, because there was that one haircut. Was the inside-out jeans thing an actual style in the 90s?

[16:16] Jess: I think so, but those were not true inside-out jeans, because I looked at them very closely, and the buttons were on the inside, and the pocket- the seams were on the inside, but their pockets in the front were on the outside.

[16:27] Mnemosyne Chirolla: So those were made- They were made for this.

[16:30] Jess: I also noticed that they had one of the ensemble members was wearing a Mets jersey instead of a Mets jersey.

[16:39] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I was like, oh, that's cute. What does that mean? I don't get it.

[16:41] Jess: I assumed it was, like, to prevent copyright infringement. They just got a bootleg, like, on New York. They sell bootleg versions of things. They bought it in Times Square. From the Elmo.

[16:51] Mnemosyne Chirolla: There was a lot of, like, you know, saggy- properly sagging pants, which I was like, oh! I haven't seen that in a while. It was just something novel, of like, oh, that's neat. And we had- this is a weird thing to bring up, but we had scenes that were so nice and so close, I could see the brand on her underwear.

[17:14] Jess: Tommy Hilfiger, I was like, wow, should I start wearing those? And I was like, no, that's not for me, as I am a white woman.

[17:22] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I don't know. I think people can pull off whatever. I think you're underselling your abilities there.

[17:25] Jess: Perhaps, but I don't think it's for me. But was Hell's Kitchen for you? What was your overall thoughts and your cheese rating?

[17:35] Mnemosyne Chirolla: And I'm pretty sure you've never listened to an episode of my podcast.

[17:38] Jess: Don't call me out like this.

[17:41] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Can you explain the cheese rating system for the people that haven't listened before?

[17:45] Jess: Not me, not me. And I've only never listened because you told me very expressly never to listen.

[17:53] Mnemosyne Chirolla: And that was good advice that I stand by. Even to you listening out there, you just wasted your time.

[18:03] Jess: The cheese rating system is basically whatever cheese you can think of to justify as a rating. We're basically making fun of rating systems.

[18:11] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I thought it wasn't too bad.

[18:13] Jess: Okay, that's not the glowing review of the century.

[18:16] Mnemosyne Chirolla: No, I liked it. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I enjoyed watching the dancing. I enjoyed the singing. The mom character did a great job. I would say overall, it was pretty good. And I would give it a Gouda. Not a smoked Gouda, but a Gouda.

[18:28] Jess: Yeah, I really had a... Okay, I was kind of going in a little dreadless because I'm coming off of a little sickness. I was like, I can already feel the headache the show is going to give me. It's going to be tiny little parts like, oh, it's just loud noise. Nothing but noise. But no, it was a proper story. Because it's not just like, how did Alicia... Let's see Alicia Keys' career, which is like, not my thing. That's kind of what I thought we were going to see, and then we did not. I didn't... I don't like those. The only one I've ever liked is the Cher show.

[18:57] Mnemosyne Chirolla: That's fair.

[18:59] Jess: So I was really impressed. Like, hey, they made it a story. I don't know how much of the story was worth telling. But as soon as we're in a musical number, I'm like, hell yeah. I'm like, this is the best.

[19:09] Mnemosyne Chirolla: That's fair. So I'm going to give this a New York cheese pizza sold in Hell's Kitchen.

[19:16] Jess: Hell's Kitchen didn't play much into this. I mean, I didn't see Gordon Ramsay once.

[19:19] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Neither did I, but I believe it was referring to the neighborhood in which her 44 floor building was in.

[19:25] Jess: Oh, I get it.

[19:28] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Yeah. Man, I was just like, man, Gordon Ramsay's not got long to show up at this. Where is he?

[19:34] Jess: I mean, I was like seething because that was her joke, and I just 100% stole it.

[19:40] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Yes, you stole my joke. I'm not thrilled, but it is your podcast, and I'm glad I was able to give you material for it.

[19:47] Jess: You sound like Miranda, who I steal material from my podcast all the time, every day. She will say something. I'm like, I'm just going to store that away.

[19:54] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Good for you. Honestly, I'd do the same thing if I had a podcast. I would be like, actually, I am the funniest person here.

[20:01] Jess: Do you know who Christian Borle is?

[20:05] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I do not know who Christian Borle is.

[20:07] Jess: He is a Broadway singer that kind of looks like a rat. You will Google him right now, and we will sit here and wait for you to Google this man.

[20:17] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Christian, like the religion, and Borle, like B-O-R-L-E. This suspense is killing me.

[20:22] Jess: Oh, a 52-year-old rat.

[20:25] Mnemosyne Chirolla: What is the average life expectancy for a rat?

[20:28] Jess: But you get it.

[20:29] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I'm seeing it.

[20:31] Jess: He, when he was in "Legally Blonde," cheated on his wife, Sutton Foster, with the lead of that show, and he was married to her.

[20:39] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I know of her.

[20:43] Jess: And her reaction was, somebody married that rat man. It was not that he cheated. It was that he got married in the first place.

[20:54] Mnemosyne Chirolla: You know what? Maybe he looked really good when he was younger.

[20:57] Jess: He did not.

[20:58] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Okay.

[20:59] Jess: He's only gotten better, I will say that.

[21:02] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I didn't know they made wine out of rats.

[21:06] Jess: Thank you, Mnemosyne, for joining me.

[21:08] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Of course. Thank you for having me. Is there anything you want to promote for the children at home?

[21:13] Jess: Yes.

[21:14] Mnemosyne Chirolla: I helped Jesse work on a film called "Daughters of the Domino," and you should figure out whatever is going on with that. You should come to one of the many screenings we have coming up in 2026. We will also be on streaming soon, but we're going to hold off on that. Come to a screening. Sit in a dark room with strangers. Nemo had a lot of fun, Nemo. Namazne had a lot of fun making that movie with me, right? It wasn't a stressful nightmare, was it?

[21:36] Jess: Not for me. I was only there for half of it.

[21:41] Mnemosyne Chirolla: Oh, my gosh. Thank you. And are you sure you don't want to promote your social media for all the hotties?

[21:47] Jess: Oh, yes. Hi, hotties. You can follow me on Instagram, at Nemo Located. It's private, but I'll accept you.

[21:56] Mnemosyne Chirolla: And if you're an EDM fan...

[21:58] Jess: Oh, yeah. If you're an EDM fan, hit me up. Especially. We will see you next time. I believe Miranda and I will be seeing "Shucked" in December, which is a musical I'm very excited to see.

[22:09] Mnemosyne Chirolla: If you're hearing that title, what do you think that musical is about?

[22:12] Jess: I hope it's about men taking their clothes off.

[22:15] Mnemosyne Chirolla: No, it's about corn.

[22:16] Jess: That was actually my second guess, believe it or not.

[22:19] Mnemosyne Chirolla: It's cornography, not pornography.

[22:21] Jess: Tell me the men are dressed as corn.

[22:23] Mnemosyne Chirolla: They might be. They're musketi.

[22:28] Jess: Well, that was a good time for all. Thank you very much for listening. And we'll see you next time on "Theatre in the D."