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[0:00] Jess: Hello and welcome back to Jess & Liz Horror Film Rankings on the Cheese Wheel Bonus. How are you doing, Liz?

[0:29] Liz: I'm great. How are you? I feel so good I could scream because this week we are ranking the other Wes Craven horror franchise, The Scream Film. We have not double, like, saw each other's lists, so whatever you're going to hear is definitely genuine. We are starting from the bottom and going all the way to the top.

[0:51] Jess: That's a wop. I meant to ask this about Nightmare, but I'm going to ask it now. How long have you liked The Scream movies? How long have you been in that world?

[1:05] Liz: I grew up a little baby, so I couldn't watch horror movies for a while. When I was eight, my dad showed me the Thriller music video, and I got so scared of it I didn't watch anything horror-adjacent until I was 16. The first thing I watched was Scream, actually, because someone told me it wasn't scary at all. I was like, okay, and then I just watched it. I was like, oh, this is really good, actually. Then I watched all the series that was available, which was up to four at the time, I think. That's pretty neat. Then I watched Nightmare after I watched Scream for the first time because I developed some bravery. Then I watched all those movies.

[1:42] Jess: I mean, you and I bonded over Scream a little bit. You brought up Scream a lot when we did our Patreon shows for, I want to say, Tangled or Schmigadoo. Somehow we kept coming back to Scream.

[1:52] Liz: Oh, I think because at the time, Scream 5 and 6 were coming out. I had not seen any of them at that time. It might not have even been on recording. It could have just been you and I chatting afterwards about it, where you were very interested to hear my thoughts on the newest Scream I was watching.

[2:07] Jess: Yeah, I was, because you were watching all of them, and I was like, oh, what is he thinking? And I know you and I disagree on some of them based on just recollection.

[2:19] Liz: I'm going to start from the bottom of my list and piss Liz off right at the start. Mine is Scream 4.

[2:23] Jess: Fuck off and die.

[2:28] Liz: As shot in my hometown. That's why you hate it. You're biased.

[2:32] Jess: Not even that. I mean, that was the only thing I was paying attention to the whole time, was like, oh, yeah, I recognize that. My co-workers, my current co-workers have cameos in this movie, and it's just still like, oh, this movie is just washing over at me. Look, I'll get into it. It's higher up on my end.

[2:52] Liz: I think Emma Roberts is truly just not fitting into this world.

[2:57] Jess: Okay. I really just, I think the cast is a little off, and it bums me out, because this is the one where it truly feels like we're just going through the motions. No one feels to have progressed anywhere from where we last left them. This is the one where it's like, oh, we're in Frozen animation, aren't we? Sidney is nowhere different. Dewey is nowhere different. Gale is nowhere different. I do like some of the new people. I do like Hayden Panettiere, and I think Rory Culkin's a funny actor. And I actually don't mind Alison Brie in it. I think Alison Brie's a lot of fun.

[3:34] Liz: Okay. Her death is very, very effective, but this one just didn't do it for me. The color grading, the way this film visually looks is a fucking eyesore.

[3:42] Jess: Can you at least give me that?

[3:50] Liz: Why? I can't give you that.

[3:52] Jess: It's ugly. It's an ugly looking movie. It's 2011. Movies are ugly in 2011.

[3:57] Liz: Yes, but not every film has to look like Repo the Genetic Opera.

[4:01] Jess: Yeah, it doesn't look like Repo. It does look like Repo.

[4:04] Liz: It does look like Repo.

[4:06] Jess: This could go on for a while. We could fight for a while, so we want to move on. Although my current barber worked as the hairstylist for everyone on the film and tells me a lot of stories about doing everyone's hairs, like doing Wes Craven's haircuts every day. And apparently David Arquette and Courtney Cox are going through their divorce during it, and just everyone was really sad.

[4:31] Liz: Yeah, they're going through the divorce at the time, so watching a movie is a fun exercise in the breakdown of their marriage. And Nev Campbell continues to exist.

[4:39] Jess: Okay. What's your bottom line?

[4:41] Liz: Scream 3.

[4:43] Jess: Oof.

[4:45] Liz: Obviously. Oof.

[4:48] Jess: Scream 3 sucks.

[4:48] Liz: No, it doesn't.

[4:52] Jess: Okay, okay. You'll have to listen to me talk now, because I listen to you say some bullshit.

[4:52] Liz: I will, I will. Okay, Scream 3 is horrendous, because it was written in a last minute rush by a guy who doesn't know what he's doing in very little time. No offense to Aaron Krueger. He went on to write other good movies, but he did not good at this one. They move locations for no reason. Sydney has become a hollow shell of a person. Patrick Dempsey is here for some reason. Jay and Silent Bob make a cameo, and the story's just fucking stupid. It's clearly an homage to Hollywood, and they give all this backstory about it's connected to the death. The deaths in this movie are connected to deaths in the first movie, and the murder of Maureen Prescott before the movies even start, and they try so hard to make this good, but it's so bad. Also, I'm a nerd. I know more shit about this movie than I should. Basically, there was going to be two killers, like all the other movies, and then Columbine happened.

[5:44] Liz: Yeah.

[5:45] Jess: So the only killer is now one of them. I'm not going to say who, in case you have not seen Scream 3 for whatever reason, and instead of this person and one other person who is intended to be the killer, and it feels like that intention is still present, and it feels all the vibes are off, and Parker Posey is here. That's all I have to say about Parker Posey.

[6:10] Liz: I will have slight defenses of this when it gets to my turn.

[6:14] Jess: Okay, I have many defenses of Scream 4, so.

[6:18] Liz: Yeah, I have a couple, but basically my retaliation on that one is there are significant high points of that movie that really hold it up for me.

[6:31] Jess: Okay, I can see it. I can see it.

[6:33] Liz: And that is just a me thing, but I get it. I understand and agree with almost every critique you've said. It has a lot of problems, and there's a lot of them I can't get past, because a lot of the problems are just boring.

[6:47] Jess: See, I can't agree with that one.

[6:50] Liz: Yeah, I find most of the problems boring.

[6:53] Jess: Boring hits my next one, though.

[6:55] Liz: Which is?

[6:57] Jess: The Scream, most recent Scream.

[6:59] Liz: I also have the most recent Scream.

[7:02] Jess: This film is boring. It has moments. I like the Samara Weaving opening. I like Samara Weaving. Antonio Valori is also in that scene. He's also very good. But I don't know what's going on with a lot of the superpowers on some of these fucking characters. Why can't they die?

[7:25] Liz: Yeah.

[7:26] Jess: Chad should have died! A lot of these people should have died. I cannot have the they-them best friend get stabbed that many times again and still somehow be okay.

[7:39] Liz: Oh, god.

[7:39] Jess: Also, I love Mindy. I love Mindy. Especially now that I've seen Yellowjacket. She's in Yellowjacket, and I love her even more. But wow, Mindy as... Mindy, what are you doing?

[7:51] Liz: I think Melissa Barrera is incredible.

[7:53] Jess: She's great in this.

[7:55] Liz: She's not the best in these movies, though.

[7:57] Jess: No.

[7:59] Liz: I honestly don't think the Radio Silence group are that good in this world. I don't think they're... I think they're struggling. I think they have moments where they are good. I think Ready or Not is a good example.

[8:11] Jess: Ready or Not is the only film of theirs that really hits.

[8:14] Liz: I think that their VHS stuff doesn't work. I thought Abigail was just a not-as-good remake of Ready or Not.

[8:21] Jess: I actually... I'm going to defend Abigail. It felt very mid-2000s, and I kind of dug it.

[8:27] Liz: I would have loved if I had never seen Ready or Not.

[8:31] Jess: You've never seen Ready or Not?

[8:32] Liz: No, no.

[8:32] Jess: Oh, if you hadn't seen Ready or Not. Okay.

[8:35] Liz: I would have loved that film.

[8:36] Jess: I can see that. I think Melissa Barrera is actually stronger in Abigail.

[8:39] Liz: Than Samara Weaving?

[8:42] Jess: Not better than Samara Weaving, but better than she is in the Scream series.

[8:45] Liz: Yes, I will say that.

[8:46] Jess: I can agree with that.

[8:47] Liz: And Dan Stevens.

[8:48] Jess: I love Dan Stevens.

[8:49] Liz: Yes.

[8:50] Jess: Both of those are better than either of their outings in Scream.

[8:53] Liz: Yes.

[8:54] Jess: I don't... We'll get to Scream 5. But also, I just don't like the New York setting. If you're going to set it in New York, do something with it like Scream 3 did with their setting change, like it or not. And I feel like we have this wonderful character with Melissa Barrera and her sister, and they make them very connected to Billy Loomis from the first movie, and they do almost nothing with that. They just keep teasing us. They keep cock-teasing us with something maybe happening regarding that, and then it never happens. Also, Ghost Billy is still bad.

[9:27] Liz: I don't mind it.

[9:27] Jess: I hate... I think Ghost Billy is a fine idea for that other movie we'll talk about later.

[9:31] Liz: I hate Ghost Billy.

[9:32] Jess: I hate Ghost Billy. We'll talk about that later, though. But if you're going to do it, lean into it, make it a thing, and they decidedly do not do that. And it feels like everyone keeps cock-teasing us again with... What's his name? Shaggy coming back, and they never do it.

[9:49] Liz: Yeah, they literally show the TV from Scream 1, which Matthew Lillard dies on. And you keep thinking they show the TV. They always... Matthew Lillard's going to come back. He doesn't come back. It's not even the first time they've done that. They've done it so many times.

[10:05] Jess: Scream 3.

[10:06] Liz: Scream 3. They did it with Randy at some point, probably. I don't know. They do it all the time. It's awful.

[10:12] Jess: So that was yours, Scream 6.

[10:15] Liz: Scream 6, yes.

[10:16] Jess: Well, I guess it's my turn now.

[10:18] Liz: Yes.

[10:18] Jess: Scream 3.

[10:20] Liz: So, everything Liz said...

[10:21] Jess: I'm just glad it's not higher, frankly.

[10:23] Liz: No, no. Thank God.

[10:24] Jess: I would hate you if it was number two.

[10:27] Liz: It is not number two.

[10:27] Jess: Thank God.

[11:36] Liz: After what happened in the first two movies, she's like, I'm locking the fuck down, I'm getting away. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Of course she would. I would do the same thing if I was Sydney. Honestly, I would get off the grid completely. I thought that made sense of the character. And like, yeah, she wanted to lessen pressure. Like, everything felt like it was, I mean, that was my biggest problem with Scream 4, is that no one felt like they progressed or learned anything. And we're kind of, this one, it feels like, all right, we are developing based on what happened in the first two. I also, I don't know, I think the way they forced Sydney to stay in the location feels clunky to me.

It doesn't make sense why she's there. Like, why didn't she just go back, fuck off and go back to her little bunker in the woods? Like, she could have done that multiple times. And I think her character response would have been to do that. Genuinely, if she wants to not be traumatized again, which is what she wants. So I find Sydney odd in Scream 3. I think because Neve Campbell found playing this role odd at the time, so.

[12:34] Jess: I see that. But also, like, we get a lot of good stuff for Courteney Cox and David Arquette in this movie.

[12:39] Liz: Yeah, her bangs though.

[12:41] Jess: They're terrible. Oh my god.

[12:42] Liz: Oh my god. Her bangs.

[12:44] Jess: Truly heinous. I love it.

[12:46] Liz: Heinous, heinous. Also, Jenny McCarthy's in this movie.

[12:50] Jess: Oh my god. I think you mean Heather Locklear.

[12:52] Liz: Oh, I'm Heather Locklear. I'm so sorry.

[12:55] Jess: Yeah, that movie is, like, I'm not defending it. But man, I remember it. And the things I latch onto are really, really, really effective for me. I respect it. I think it's just kind of a mess.

[13:05] Liz: I think it had good base. I just think it could have been better. I think it could have been great, if given the time. And I feel like a film that could have been great, but without issues without the director and writer's controls affecting it.

[13:18] Jess: Yeah.

[13:18] Liz: Is at least more interesting than a film that had all the opportunity like Scream 6 and just kind of does nothing with it.

[13:24] Jess: I do find it funny Kevin Williamson was writing a movie called Teaching Mrs. Tingle at the time.

[13:29] Liz: So.

[13:31] Jess: What's your next one, Liz?

[13:33] Liz: Number three, right?

[13:35] Jess: Yes.

[13:36] Liz: Oh, it was, oh, Scream 2.

[13:38] Jess: Really?

[13:41] Liz: Yeah, it's recently downgraded.

[13:44] Jess: Why?

[13:45] Liz: Because I re-watched another Scream movie and I realized how good it is.

[13:49] Jess: All right, elaborate. What are your thoughts on Scream 2, then?

[13:51] Liz: Scream 2 is probably the perfect, one of the best horror sequels I've seen. It's perfect follow up to the first movie. It does character growth. It does a lot really well. I think Sydney is very good in this. I think she addresses her trauma without making it like a huge sad, like, you know, like that's not the focus of the movie, but it's an undercurrent. And they make a lot of brave choices in this. They kill Randy.

[14:20] Jess: They do a lot of stuff that, like, no other-

[14:22] Liz: I mean, I don't want to hang out with Jamie Kennedy, either.

[14:24] Jess: Yeah, me either.

[14:25] Liz: But, like, Randy is a character so important to the series because he explains the rules, like, of what's going on in the story. So that was really brave of them. Courtney Cox, Nate, and Arquette are always strong. I think my issue with it is there's some cringe in here.

[14:42] Jess: Mostly the singing scene.

[14:44] Liz: That scene is incredible!

[14:46] Jess: I love it!

[14:47] Liz: Can't watch it.

[14:48] Jess: I have to fast forward sometimes.

[14:50] Liz: Oh my, it's so funny!

[14:52] Jess: And I think Jerry O'Connell is not good in this.

[14:54] Liz: I don't like him in this movie.

[14:56] Jess: I just don't like- I don't think I like Jerry O'Connell, though.

[14:58] Liz: So-

[14:59] Jess: You're not a Kangaroo Jack fan?

[15:00] Liz: I am not a fan of Kangaroo Jack, but-

[15:03] Jess: So, Jerry O'Connell guest hosted an episode of Big Brother this season, and the contestant that got evicted happened to say at some point his favorite movie was Kangaroo Jack.

[15:12] Liz: So I read on Twitter, and I was like, oh my god, this guy gets to meet a star of his favorite movie, Kangaroo Jack!

[15:20] Jess: So that's all I think about when I think of Jerry O'Connell now.

[15:23] Liz: But it's fine. I enjoy it a lot. I think Sydney, it's one of her best- Dev Campbell is really good in this movie. It's just not as good as other ones, you know?

[15:34] Jess: Not to say it's bad, but it's not as good as other ones for me.

[15:37] Liz: If you say so.

[15:38] Jess: Yes. Let's move on, because my number three is The Scream Reboot by Radio Silence.

[15:46] Liz: Oh, did I skip that one?

[15:47] Jess: Yeah, that-

[15:49] Liz: I was very confused when your number three was Scream 2.

[15:52] Jess: Oh, I skipped Scream 5.

[15:54] Liz: Okay, so Scream 5 is your number three.

[15:57] Jess: Yes, yes.

[15:58] Liz: I hope you understood my confusion.

[16:00] Jess: Yeah, no, I think-

[16:01] Liz: No, my number four is Scream 5.

[16:02] Jess: I got confused. My bad.

[16:04] Liz: All right, Scream 5. Let's talk about it.

[16:05] Jess: Scream 5, a little rough.

[16:09] Liz: But the highs are high.

[16:10] Jess: Dewey is great in this movie.

[16:12] Liz: I have no complaints with Dewey in this movie. Incredible. David Arquette is giving a really effective performance, and the fact that immediately everyone wants to undo all the track forward that this movie has taken pisses me off.

[16:27] Liz: I actually don't mind the Ghost Billy stuff in here.

[16:30] Jess: I know you hate it.

[16:32] Liz: It's so comical.

[16:34] Jess: It is.

[16:34] Liz: Especially because they de-age him in post, and it's awful.

[16:38] Jess: It is. All of these things I agree with.

[16:40] Liz: I like it.

[16:40] Jess: It's awful.

[16:43] Liz: I think Jenna Ortega is one of the best opening scene girls.

[16:48] Jess: Yeah, agreed, agreed.

[16:50] Liz: Melissa Barrera is good, but a little lost.

[16:52] Jess: She's struggling.

[16:53] Liz: I see no reason that Neve Campbell comes back in this.

[16:56] Jess: I see no reason that Gale's really here, honestly.

[16:59] Liz: Honestly, one of the issues of the later series is they keep putting Gale in it. It's like, why is Gale here?

[17:04] Jess: I think it's fine if she's there, but there are better ways to use him.

[17:11] Liz: Yeah.

[17:11] Jess: Use her, sorry.

[17:12] Liz: Also, I know what happened. I know why I got confused.

[17:15] Jess: You said number four, and then we skipped to number three.

[17:19] Liz: I never said my number four.

[17:21] Jess: I think I said my number four, which is Scream 3.

[17:23] Liz: And then I didn't say my number four, which is Scream 5.

[17:25] Jess: I just said, what's next?

[17:26] Liz: Yeah.

[17:27] Jess: I forgot to say my four, which is Scream 5.

[17:31] Liz: Scream 5 is...

[17:32] Jess: But it's rough.

[17:33] Liz: It's rough.

[17:36] Jess: You feel the removal of Wes Craven's hand.

[17:40] Liz: And it's very much a film that is aware that it is taking on a legacy and not in a pleasant way.

[17:48] Jess: That being said, I think Jack Quaid and Mikey Madison are next level, and that's it.

[17:54] Liz: I also love this movie, Gave Us a Nora. Because the director saw Scream 5 and was like, I love this bitch. I'm going to put her in my movie, and it's the best movie of the year right now. Allegedly.

[18:04] Jess: I haven't seen it. It's only in the festival circuit, so I cannot speak to this. But apparently it's very good.

[18:10] Liz: I'll believe it.

[18:11] Jess: I like Mikey Madison in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

[18:16] Liz: I hate Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

[18:18] Jess: Oh, I don't like that movie either. I think she's great in it.

[18:21] Liz: I don't remember her.

[18:24] Jess: She's one of the Manson family, and she's the one that gets her face bashed into a wall and burnt alive.

[18:30] Liz: She's really selling that performance.

[18:33] Jess: That makes it funny.

[18:34] Liz: Wow.

[18:35] Jess: I hate that movie so much.

[18:36] Liz: I didn't remember that happened. Damn.

[18:37] Jess: That movie's wild.

[18:39] Liz: And honestly, there's things about it I like, but as a whole, as an experience, it's shit.

[18:44] Jess: I hate it. I hate it.

[18:45] Liz: I hate what they did to Sharon Tate.

[18:46] Jess: But that's a different podcast.

[18:48] Liz: That is a different podcast.

[18:52] Jess: I hate what they did to a lot of people in there.

[18:55] Liz: Bruce Lee.

[18:56] Jess: Oh, no, that's even worse.

[18:59] Liz: But anyway, what's your number three, Jess?

[19:02] Jess: What is my number three?

[19:04] Liz: Yeah, I said it was Scream 4 or Scream 5.

[19:07] Jess: I can tell you my number two.

[19:09] Liz: Oh yeah.

[19:09] Jess: Tell me your number two.

[19:10] Liz: My number two is Scream, the OG.

[19:14] Jess: I like this film a lot.

[19:16] Liz: I feel like a lot of things that it sets up.

[19:19] Jess: Honestly, you want to know why this got downgraded a bit for me?

[19:22] Liz: Why?

[19:23] Jess: Because Scary Movie exists.

[19:25] Liz: Okay, I can see it.

[19:26] Jess: Yeah, and it just kind of takes a lot of the things that are really good and really effective in that and made them into memes that are more popular than the original film.

[19:31] Liz: And it's frustrating.

[19:37] Jess: And you can't ever fully divorce it at this point the way you can from the others, because they kind of move away from that.

[19:42] Liz: And that's not this movie's fault.

[19:47] Jess: But when I rewatch it, it does come up and it does hit a little weird for me.

[19:53] Liz: And also, the mystery is not as mysterious.

[19:57] Jess: There's not really foreshadowing.

[19:59] Liz: It is kind of the most obvious twist in the world, if you think about anything.

[20:04] Jess: But Neve Campbell, this is actually where I think her performance is the best.

[20:08] Liz: Like the little stuff she does, like when she's pretending that she or when she's being watched and she picks her nose and be like, all right, what am I doing then?

[20:17] Jess: Like, it's such a cute performance.

[20:19] Liz: She's really it's a one time where she is in trauma, like filled. So it's nice to see her as well.

[20:24] Jess: She is trauma filled.

[20:26] Liz: Yeah, she's already full of trauma.

[20:28] Jess: I know you're talking about.

[20:30] Liz: But I not as much as later.

[20:33] Jess: Not like personality defining.

[20:35] Liz: It's like less direct trauma because it's just because her mom was the way her mom died.

[20:40] Jess: And also, I love the world building this does for the what's his name?

[20:45] Liz: What the fuck's his name?

[20:47] Jess: Lee Shriver's character.

[20:48] Liz: We see him so briefly here and he's like, it's going to be important later.

[20:52] Jess: Like the confidence in that.

[20:55] Liz: Liam Shriver, of all people.

[20:58] Jess: Such luck.

[20:59] Liz: But no, this movie is great.

[21:00] Jess: It's at my number two because it's great.

[21:02] Liz: OK, you're going to scream.

[21:03] Jess: Two is your number two.

[21:05] Liz: Number three.

[21:06] Jess: OK, what's your number two?

[21:07] Liz: Scream four.

[21:09] Jess: OK, you're a lot.

[21:40] Liz: Culture of the 2010s, which I have a weird fixation on for some fucking reason. I think the characters are strong. I think Sydney is really good in this. I think they justify her presence well by having her need to be there for police investigation while also supporting Dewey and Jill and the aunt whose name I don't remember. And I think Emma Roberts fits here. I think she pulls it off. I think she's a strong enough actor, frankly. Also, I've seen her in Scream Queens where she is abysmal at times. So, I've seen her where she doesn't fit. And people will fight me on that, I'm aware, but I think Scream Queens is an awful fucking show. So, anyway. I think there's so much smart here. The scene that gets me is the phone call with Kirby when Charlie is tied up.

And the Ghostface is like, which remake? And then Kirby just lists them for two minutes straight. It's such a dumb scene. Yeah, it's dumb, but it's the point of Scream is to comment on the culture where horror is at the time. That's the point of Scream, which is why the Radio Silence ones don't hit me, because what are we commenting on? Sequels? We already did that like four times. I will say the only one of the Radio Silence films that kind of comments on it is the opening genre or take a scene where she's like, oh yeah, I like elevated horror, like the Bop 2. And I'm like, yeah, that's what horror is to most people. That's what horror is, no. And Scream 6 is just a thing that exists. We're in New York, baby!

What are we commenting on? But anyway, I think it comments on the remake thing well, subtly, by just making characters the same as the original without saying it out loud where they belong. We know that Kirby is Randy but a girl, but we're not going to say you're just like, Sydney's not like, you're just like Randy, my old friend who died. No, that's never spoken. And wait, there's Olivia, there's Jill who becomes what wants to be Sydney but is actually Billy. There's a lot of smart choices here. It's not perfect by any regard. I think it has issues, but I think it's really smartly made and constructed. And Courtney Cox is also here. You're allowed to have your wrong opinion.

[24:00] Jess: Okay, okay. I heard you out. You basically said the same thing to me. I know, I know. I'm being mean. That's all I gotta say is like, hey. We all have our likes.

[24:06] Liz: Yeah, we all have our likes. We all have our dislikes. And I really didn't like that film. It didn't hit for me. It's really a bummer that that's the last one that Wes Craven made, to be honest.

[24:12] Jess: Yeah, I get why people don't enjoy it. I understand why it doesn't hit, but for me it hit. So, you know, that's just me.

[24:19] Liz: Yeah. Also, I liked that Randy is a girl because I connect with Randy because I'm also a fucking geek. No one likes to talk to you about horror movies.

[24:25] Jess: I mean, they do that in the radio silence films a little bit.

[24:29] Liz: Yeah, but those before radio silence.

[24:33] Jess: I agree, but. So like, this wasn't a thing that I could compare it to when I watched it the first time. Remember, I watched it all these back to back. Nothing feels novel to me.

[24:39] Liz: That's true. I watched these as they came out after Scream 4. I watched these in like a month.

[24:43] Jess: Yeah, so Jess and I have different perspectives. I watched these over a series of years.

[24:49] Liz: You watched this as your last Scream movie for many years.

[24:53] Jess: Yes, this is my last Scream movie. I didn't think it was going to come back. So I saw it as like, oh, there's a new one. Let me watch all of these babies. And then you just watch them like a month and you're like, these are bad.

[25:06] Liz: And I'm like, okay, I didn't say they were bad.

[25:10] Jess: You didn't say they were bad, but you're just like Scream 4 is so boring. And I was like, are you kidding me?

[25:16] Liz: Scream 4 sucks.

[25:20] Jess: You're allowed to have your thoughts. And I don't even disagree with what you're saying. It's just like the same for me.

[25:25] Liz: Yeah, I'm too distracted by seeing my hometown on screen like that. Oh, look at that. That's not to bring up the evil M. Night Shyamalan movie I don't want to talk about anymore.

[25:29] Jess: But I started this. I can't enjoy Trap because I keep thinking this isn't Philly.

[25:37] Liz: That's fair. This is not Philadelphia. This is not the Liacouras Center. This is Toronto. You can put as many P.A. license plates in my face, M. Night, but I know this is Canada. This is not Malvern. I've seen Malvern. It's a piece of shit.

[25:48] Jess: My number one is Scream 2.

[25:56] Liz: I honestly respect it. Scream 2 is very high on my list for many years. It's so good. The opening scene, the movie theater scene is incredible. Everything that you also said you disliked, I kind of like.

[26:07] Jess: Yeah, like Laurie Metcalf alone is doing so much of the walking for this movie.

[26:12] Liz: Yeah, I dislike Laurie Metcalf in this.

[26:19] Jess: So really?

[26:19] Liz: Yeah. What? I don't mind Laurie Metcalf as an actor. I just think the way she's hamming, she's just kind of trying to keep up with the other guy who's the killer who's also being hammy and Timothy Oliphant.

[26:25] Jess: Yeah, I don't want to spoil this for people. I'm going to say like Timothy Oliphant's also great in this movie. He reminds me a lot of Billy Loomis without just playing the hits.

[26:39] Liz: Yeah. Also, my favorite Timothy Oliphant thing is during the last season of The Good Place to distract Maya Rudolph's character, they bring in Timothy Oliphant dressed as his character from Justified. It's like, hi, I'm Timothy Oliphant. You don't need to see his character's name. And also I think Timothy Oliphant is so funny every time he's on Conan. I love Timothy Oliphant. I love Conan. We can all have our loves.

[27:07] Jess: There's that scene where they're just trying to get something out of a car and it's so tense. It's so good. There are so many high highs in this movie and I really like it a lot. I don't know what else to say. The recreation of the movie, of Scream 1 in this movie with Luke Wilson and Heather Graham.

[27:28] Liz: Oh, it's the STAB movie.

[27:29] Jess: Yes. Perfect here. Always. It's great. It takes so many risks. It's so smart. And Liev Schreiber is the best red herring in all the movies. Out of all of them, he works. This is actually the only one that has a proper mystery.

[27:43] Liz: That being said, Liz, you're number one.

[27:50] Jess: I got a feeling I know what it is.

[27:56] Liz: It's the original. It's the original Scream.

[27:56] Jess: Hard to argue.

[27:56] Liz: I respect this choice.

[28:02] Jess: Yeah.

[28:02] Liz: It's like what you said about Scream 2. It's the same thing I enjoy about Scream 4, which is why I have it so high up. It takes a risk in an era that normally that wouldn't happen. But back to Scream. This is purely sentimental. I just want to say this. I love it. I love this movie. It's so smart. Nev Campbell is just her. The way she performs it is so good. I love how this trope that these final girls can't have sex or they'll die. But I love how they flipped it to be an actual character trait that makes sense. And as a person who's been through some shit, I see that making sense now. It's just really strong. I think Skeet Ulrich is very good in this.

[28:38] Jess: Yes, he is. Skeet Ulrich is so good. Matthew Lillard is having the time of his life. I cannot deny it. He's got a long tongue. Rose McGowan is actually pretty strong. I don't think we talk about her enough.

[28:49] Liz: No. Rose McGowan is very good in this movie. I know she got blacklisted for saying Harvey Weinstein messed up her life, but let's not do that, y'all.

[28:59] Jess: Hey, she went through some shit. Let's give her a break. But Scream is just a really strong classic slasher to me. The structure is really well done. The Conker Leaf character doesn't make me want to gnash my brain out, even though he's played by Jamie Kennedy, which is impressive. Jamie Kennedy is watchable in these movies. That is impressive, because Jamie Kennedy is not a normally watchable actor. It's just really strong. And I agree the mystery isn't that compelling. It's kind of obvious at a certain point what's going on. But honestly, I don't care. I don't care if the mystery isn't the best part of the movie. I want the kills and the characters to be the best part of the movie. I want the story to make sense.

And I just love so many details in this movie, how it creates a world that the sequels can live in that makes sense. It's just really smart. I don't know how else to say this. It's just a really well done classic slasher in an era where we didn't really have those going on in the 90s.

[30:00] Liz: So the only flaw in that movie is the very dumb scene where the principal gets killed.

[30:05] Jess: That is true. But I do love how the janitor is dressed like Freddy Krueger.

[30:10] Liz: Yes, I like that, too.

[30:11] Jess: That was good. It was good. Also, Red Right Hand. We don't mention that.

[30:14] Liz: We haven't mentioned that yet. But the Red Right Hand song. That's in all these movies.

[30:18] Jess: Yes, it is. And it feels like the Wilhelm scream in Star Wars where I'm like, you know, we don't have to do that anymore.

[30:23] Liz: Yeah, with the radio silence ones.

[30:26] Jess: So yeah, I think it played in like the first radio silence one.

[30:29] Liz: It played in Scream 5, not Scream 6.

[30:31] Jess: Yeah.

[30:31] Liz: Because I remember not liking it at first because they didn't play Red Right Hand.

[30:35] Jess: Well, what is your guys' favorite Scream movies? Let us know in the comments below.

[30:39] Liz: And Liz, this has been a blast. What other film series do you think we should rank?

[30:43] Jess: The Star Wars movies? Maybe? Probably not.

[30:46] Liz: No, no, we'll get canceled.

[30:48] Jess: Yeah, we've already been canceled enough by talking for letting a woman talk this long on a podcast.

[30:53] Liz: Oh, I'll go. Sorry.

[30:56] Jess: We'll see you next time on The Cheese Wheel.

[30:58] Liz: And I hope you enjoy this week's episode coming on Friday.