This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Don't be afraid I'm not it's the cheese wizard who should be afraid of me.

[0:06] Andrew DeWolf: You can even think of a cheese. It's cheese whiz.

[0:10] Jesse McAnally: Cheese whiz I get we get it we get it Jess, but it's not good.

[0:16] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally. And I'm Andrew DeWolf. And I'm Liz Esten. And welcome to the Cheese Wheel hyper fixation podcast where our topics are gambled on a big wheel. And today we have an extra special guest who tends to return when we cover these big new musical releases. It's our former producer and good friend Brianna Jones.

[0:45] Brianna Jones: Hi everyone. Welcome back.

[0:49] Jesse McAnally: And over the last couple of days, all four of us went into a movie theater, a proper movie theater and saw the film event of the year. I don't even think I'm saying that ironically. I think it has.

[1:05] Andrew DeWolf: No, that's actually it's actually yeah, that's actually serious. Yeah.

[1:09] Jesse McAnally: It wasn't a joke like it was for Mean Girls. This might break some records and change movie musicals for good. No pun intended. This week we are talking about Wicked Part 1. Cue the music or the trailer.

[1:26] ♪ Musical number: "Wicked Trailer" — performed by Various Artists ♪

[3:05] Jesse McAnally: It premiered at the State Theatre in Sydney, Australia on November 3rd, 2024 and was theatrically released in the United States on November 22nd, the same day Kennedy was assassinated. Don't read anything into that.

[3:16] Andrew DeWolf: It has grossed $164 million so far against a $150 million budget. Wicked Part 2 is scheduled for release November 21st, 2025.

[3:27] Jesse McAnally: On the review aggregator of Rotten Tomatoes, it has a 90% from 271 critics, stating in an overall consensus, "Defying gravity with its magical pairing of Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande, Wicked's sheer bravura and charm made us for an irresistible invitation to Oz."

[3:46] Andrew DeWolf: The plot of Wicked is Elphaba, an ostracized but defiant girl born with green skin, and Glinda, a privileged aristocrat born popular, become extremely unlikely friends in this magical land of Oz.

[4:01] Jesse McAnally: Um, alright, so Wicked. All of us have seen Wicked. All- the stage show. All of us could not go into this blind. Um, and I- I- not to ruin this, I'm pretty sure that all of you really, really like this film.

[4:17] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, you know, honestly? And I'm- I'm- I tend to come off cynical and I feel like we've talked about Wicked Part 1 before and how we were very not hopeful and thought it was gonna be probably trash. Um, but you know what? I'm happy to report that I- we were all completely wrong and somehow this movie is actually fucking good.

[4:39] Liz Esten: Yeah. We did it.

[4:41] Andrew DeWolf: I- I gotta nix some pics. The more I think about it, the less I like this. Um.

[4:46] Jesse McAnally: You know, you can nitpick all you want, but like, the- the- the fact of it is, is you- you expected to go into this and think it was complete trash and you didn't, okay? So come on.

[4:57] Andrew DeWolf: But everything I was concerned about ended up being an issue. It does feel overlong, it does feel like they're stretching it out, and, you know, the callbacks are a little cringe. And the things that they-

[5:09] Liz Esten: The callbacks are cringe in the stage show.

[5:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I agree.

[5:12] Liz Esten: All callbacks are cringe, that's not a Wicked issue, that's a Universal issue.

[5:15] Jesse McAnally: We don't need Idina Menzel going, ah-ah-ah-ah!

[5:18] Andrew DeWolf: My theater loved that shit, so.

[5:20] Jesse McAnally: I- I- I rolled my eyes and scoffed, um.

[5:24] Liz Esten: He did.

[5:25] Andrew DeWolf: But, she was there, she was right next to me.

[5:28] Liz Esten: And I heard him scoff.

[5:30] Andrew DeWolf: We saw this late at night, we saw this at 10:10 PM on the third biggest screen in the world.

[5:36] Liz Esten: And it was a packed house.

[5:38] Andrew DeWolf: It was. I- but it was a shockingly quiet house, we didn't have- did anyone experience the singing from the audience?

[5:46] Brianna Jones: Thank god no.

[5:47] Andrew DeWolf: No, but I did experience very loud children running around and banging pipes and being like, mommy, I don't wanna be here.

[5:53] Brianna Jones: So, I saw this in the afternoon on a Saturday after I got off my work shift, so.

[5:59] Jesse McAnally: I mean, that says a lot about how this film will appeal to children.

[6:03] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[6:04] Jesse McAnally: Brie, I have not spoken to you about this film since we saw it. You were pretty positive about it, has your thoughts changed at all since then?

[6:12] Brianna Jones: Yeah, I actually think my thoughts have changed.

[6:15] Brianna Jones: I think I left the theater kind of not loving it, actually.

[6:20] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[6:21] Brianna Jones: And it's hard to say I didn't love it, right? Like, I like the source material, it's a good story.

[6:28] Brianna Jones: But I did feel like it was dragged out kind of long.

[6:33] Brianna Jones: But a part of me wants to see it again.

[6:36] Brianna Jones: And I feel like the more I see and the more I read about it online, I'm coming to like it even more.

[6:44] Jesse McAnally: Wow, we got opposite opinions here.

[6:46] Liz Esten: Oh my god.

[6:47] Jesse McAnally: One person who's liking it less and one who's liking it more.

[6:50] Liz Esten: I like that.

[6:51] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[6:52] Brianna Jones: So, I have a frustrating, like, I think when I came out of it, I texted Andrew, like, it is a frustratingly well-made film, but it is still frustrating.

[7:01] Jesse McAnally: So, I kind of want to come at this from the point of view that I had. If you rewind four or five years ago to when Andrew and I did our original Wicked episodes, you were fairly negative about the show, like, medium negative.

[7:15] Jesse McAnally: And I was like, what? It's great.

[7:18] Brianna Jones: Then I saw the show for, like, the fourth time in January of this year. And my god, it did not work for me.

[7:23] Brianna Jones: I was like, oh no, has it always been this badly written? Has it always been, like, this really badly constructed of a show?

[7:33] Brianna Jones: And I really, like, did a whole 180 on Wicked itself and truly felt like this couldn't work.

[7:41] Jesse McAnally: And while it works better than it could have if it was, like, done by, like, Stephen Daldry starring Lady Gaga, I still feel the problems in Wicked are still inherent in Wicked Part 1, which makes me feel like the bigger, big, big problems in Wicked Part 2, they're not going to do much with.

[7:59] Andrew DeWolf: I am quite worried about Wicked Part 2. While I am still very positive about this one, I remember Part 2, like, Act 2 of the stage show is where they start going into, like, here's where all the characters came from. This guy's the scarecrow, and this guy's the tin man, and this guy's the lion. And then it's just all of that, and that's the entirety of Act 2. And I'm just like, is there a way to make that good? I don't know.

[8:26] Brianna Jones: My favorite part of Wicked Act 2 is, like, her entire civil rights movement of let's save the animals, she just kind of gives up.

[8:33] Jesse McAnally: She gives up and says, well, that didn't work.

[8:38] Brianna Jones: I was trying to remember how that plotline ended, because the movie focuses a lot on that plotline.

[8:44] Brianna Jones: I think more than the stage show even did. And I was like, I can't remember how the stage show handled the ending.

[8:50] Jesse McAnally: And I guess you just explained it, they don't.

[8:52] Brianna Jones: Well, in the book that they're basing off of, she actually dies.

[8:56] Jesse McAnally: So that's the reason why she couldn't solve it all.

[8:59] Brianna Jones: Well, she also does give up, because Madame Marble dies before she can kill her, and then she just, like, crushes her corpse's skull into bits and then calls it a day.

[9:08] Jesse McAnally: That book is weird.

[9:10] Brianna Jones: Yeah, I know. I actually forgot that there was a whole other part to Wicked.

[9:16] Brianna Jones: I literally was like, it ends. I think the internet has it as well. I was like, it's over, and Jake and I got in the car to go see it. And he's like, you know this is two parts, right? I was like, what do you mean this is two parts?

[9:29] Jesse McAnally: You went home and you're like, well, it sucks that she dies to a bucket of water later, but I guess that's it.

[9:36] Brianna Jones: And I've seen Wicked live, and I was just like, oh yeah, there's a whole other part to this story.

[9:45] Jesse McAnally: But we don't need to talk about Act Part 2 yet.

[9:47] Brianna Jones: We don't need to talk about Act Part 2 because Part 2 doesn't exist.

[9:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we're going to do an episode on that when they suddenly make that really good too, and we're all like, what the fuck, how'd they do that?

[9:54] Jesse McAnally: We can only speculate about Part 2, so we can't give any definitive critique on it.

[10:02] Andrew DeWolf: So I guess go see Wicked if you like Wicked.

[10:08] Jesse McAnally: It's the best review I can give.

[10:10] Andrew DeWolf: If you like Wicked, hey, you'll probably like this.

[10:12] Liz Esten: Can I bring up my nitpicks before we get all positive?

[10:16] Jesse McAnally: Oh my gosh, go ahead.

[10:18] Liz Esten: For sure, but I also wanted to-

[10:20] Jesse McAnally: This is the negative zone right now.

[10:22] Liz Esten: This is now the negative section of the broadcast.

[10:23] Jesse McAnally: The rest of the episode is positive. We're not letting this happen.

[10:25] Andrew DeWolf: If you're not here for the bad vibes, skip ahead.

[10:29] Jesse McAnally: Skip ahead a bit here.

[10:30] Andrew DeWolf: Skip ahead, the good vibes are coming.

[10:32] Jesse McAnally: We're going to turn Jess's mic on.

[10:33] Andrew DeWolf: And you're made droning out with Curb Your Enthusiasm music.

[10:38] Liz Esten: I was frustrated by small things. There are some things that I really hate in the musical that they do fucking great in here, to now they are things that I have not stopped thinking about. I really hate the goat in the musical, and I hate something bad, and it's so cool how they include it in the story here, and it's so powerful how they include it in the story here, that I am still thinking about, like, oh, that is an actually now somehow palatable and powerful scene in the musical, or in the film.

[11:10] Andrew DeWolf: But then we get the prophecy that now Elphaba is a chosen one predicted by the gods, and she is now Jesus. Elphaba is now Jesus that has been prophesied, because she can read this fancy book, as opposed to her just, you know, being good because she was good. She was cool because she had these powers. And that is a nitpick for me.

[11:37] Liz Esten: I also didn't like that literally every song had an extended dance break.

[11:43] Andrew DeWolf: Well, of course you didn't like that. Jess hates dance numbers.

[11:44] Liz Esten: Jess hates dance numbers.

[11:47] Jesse McAnally: I was watching, this is not a joke, I was watching with all the dance numbers, and part of my brain went, I'm sure Jess hates all these dance numbers that are happening.

[11:56] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think "Sentimental Man" needed an extended dance number.

[12:00] Liz Esten: That was an extended dance number.

[12:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it was fun.

[12:02] Liz Esten: That was, like, less than a minute, and it was sweet.

[12:05] Andrew DeWolf: And he's bouncing the moon.

[12:06] Liz Esten: And he didn't have to do anything.

[12:07] Andrew DeWolf: It was a guy behind a curtain.

[12:10] Liz Esten: It was good.

[12:12] Andrew DeWolf: That is frustrating for me, and every moment, like, I was really kind of in with it until they get to the Emerald City, and most other critics have the exact opposite opinion of me because when we get to Emerald City, everything slows down, and every moment we linger for a long time, and we have an extended balloon chase and all these other things that are just kind of delaying us getting to the fireworks factory.

[12:40] Liz Esten: And all that would be fine if this weren't already a 2-hour-and-40-minute movie.

[12:46] Andrew DeWolf: It honestly feels anti-cinematic at points because, as Sondheim said, a close-up will often negate a song, but here we'll get a close-up, a line of dialogue newly added for the movie, and then a song that explains that line of dialogue again.

[13:02] Brianna Jones: I do agree to an extent that the movie at points feels long, so considering it's nearly 3 hours and I am someone who is vocal about not liking long movies, this didn't actually feel nearly as long as I thought it was going to.

[13:20] Liz Esten: Yeah, I'm with Andrew on that one. I saw the Batman in theaters, and the last hour I was dying. I'm like, when the fuck is this movie over? Like, my fucking God, will you just end?

[13:31] Andrew DeWolf: I love the Batman, but you're right.

[13:33] Liz Esten: Yeah, the movie doesn't end. It takes forever to end.

[13:36] Andrew DeWolf: This one, I'm like, this doesn't feel like 3 hours. It feels like a solid pace throughout.

[13:42] Liz Esten: It didn't drag on me a lot. The ending, it dragged a bit, but I wasn't even complaining at that point because I knew it was almost over.

[13:49] Brianna Jones: I think it could have been maybe 2 hours and 30 minutes instead of 45 minutes, and that would have been really good. I think that there was some stuff you could have trimmed.

[14:01] Andrew DeWolf: There's micro cuts, but nothing. You're getting to nitpicks, though, where it's like, can we take this B-plus movie and turn it into an A-plus movie?

[14:12] Brianna Jones: I suppose we could, but it's still a B-plus.

[14:15] Andrew DeWolf: I was expecting a D-minus.

[14:17] Liz Esten: Yeah, I was expecting to hate this.

[14:22] Andrew DeWolf: Wicked, besides the fact it's kind of based on The Wizard of Oz, he had no idea what was going to happen. He was like- What do you think? He liked it a lot, actually. He enjoyed himself. And he's not even lying to me. I am more than willing to take the L on this one. I think I just came in with too much knowledge and too much- the musical's a little too fresh in my head, where it's just like, you know, this thing that took two seconds on stage is taking 30 seconds right now, and I wish we would just get to the thing. Also, the last Wicked-related media I watched prior to watching this was Average Ambition's video about how the Wicked book is batshit crazy, so the only thing I remember about Wicked was basic plot points. I didn't remember details, so I was like, okay, I know it's gonna happen, but I don't know, like, the structure of it.

[15:04] Jesse McAnally: Right. All right, can we get to positives now? Can we be nice about the movie now? Now, let me say, everything I said is, this movie would have been a disaster if it weren't for the two amazing leads. If anyone else were in this fucking film, this would fall the fuck apart. They crushed this. Absolutely. Amazing, amazing job by both of them. Ariana blew me away a lot of the time. I didn't expect this in her.

[15:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I was expecting- She took Cat Valentine to, like, the 8,000th good degree. I know she's acted before, but I wasn't expecting that.

[15:48] Jesse McAnally: She started out on Broadway. 13 motherfucking Jason Momoa Brown!

[15:53] Brianna Jones: I was on that episode! I was a guest on that episode.

[15:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you're right. Yeah, because the movie had come out. I do want to say, Andrew and I, in our original trailer reactions, had our doubts about both of these ladies. I've never been a big Cynthia Erivo fan. There's a lot of politics in the theater world that kind of turned me off to her quite a bit. Three years ago, they did a public audition on PBS for these roles. It was fucking weird that they did this, but folks like Stephanie Hsu and Ariana DeBose and Cynthia Erivo, Ariana Grande, and Gabrielle Ruiz of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and Amber Riley, they all performed it. And it was so weird and so strange that we are all here, and they just had to judge on Twitter who people liked the best. And then they picked these two. Which is funny, because Ariana didn't even sing a Glenda song. She sang The Wizard and I in a previous performance. No, they both didn't sing their respective roles, because Cynthia Erivo sang Thank Goodness, which was weird.

[17:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh! So it was a very weird night. Um, this is where my relative recent awareness of the show worked, because every acting choice Cynthia Erivo specifically made was so smart. So well planned. In the show, Elphaba is very aggressive, very outwardly, I won't say cruel, but very, like, as a defense mechanism. Abrasive? Yeah, like, very much says what she's thinking to everyone, no matter not even thinking about it. But the identical, identical lines said by Cynthia Erivo are much calmer, softer, and more honest. Where, like, I always hated, like, no, I'm not seasick. No, I didn't chew, chew leaves as a child. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. It's like a really kind, and she's like, just like, nah, I ain't seasick.

And nah, I didn't do that. It's just, you know, it's just me. And it's like, oh my, you are lovely. You are charming. It makes everyone else feel a lot more cruel too, because they're, like, she's not just pushing everyone away as hard, but they're still equally cruel anyways, so. I think it's a brilliant performance. Brie, what did you think of their performances?

[18:16] Brianna Jones: I was, I think, like Liz and Andrew said, a little bit shocked by Ariana Grande's. I know she can act, and I know she can sing, but I wasn't expecting such a, what's the word I'm looking for? I guess when I think of Ariana Grande, I think of, like, pop music, right? And she kind of brought this element of, like, classical choral singing to the role at times. And that kind of, like, shocked me. And then Cynthia Erivo, I thought, did an excellent job. They're both very talented, and I believe they both sang live for this?

[18:55] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, they sang live on set.

[18:57] Brianna Jones: Yeah, live on set. But they put the recorded track over them in some scenes of the movie. It's like, they mixed it. Still impressive. I think Sideways explained it in detail in a tweet. Mr. Waze probably did a proper deep dive. That being said, with those two leads, kind of makes the side characters wish that they stood out a little bit more. And by that, I'm not talking about, like, I'm talking about...

[19:24] Andrew DeWolf: You're not talking about your man crush, Jonathan Bailey?

[19:27] Brianna Jones: Jonathan Bailey. Any time he was on screen, I was having the best time at the movie theaters.

[19:32] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Yeah, he's so hot.

[19:35] Andrew DeWolf: He's a sexy man.

[19:37] Jesse McAnally: Is Jonathan Bailey the guy on the horse who helps save...

[19:42] Brianna Jones: Yes! Yes!

[19:43] Andrew DeWolf: He's on the horse. Dude, as if I know actor names, okay? Come on, you know this.

[19:48] Jesse McAnally: I don't know anyone. Who is the only other character in this movie?

[19:51] Andrew DeWolf: The best part about that horse is...

[19:52] Brianna Jones: There's the munchkin guy.

[19:53] Andrew DeWolf: It could have been that guy.

[19:54] Brianna Jones: Oh, fuck that guy.

[19:56] Andrew DeWolf: That's SpongeBob.

[19:57] Brianna Jones: It's SpongeBob.

[19:59] Andrew DeWolf: That's SpongeBob?

[20:01] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[20:02] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, it is SpongeBob. Shit, you're right.

[20:11] Brianna Jones: There's a scene... during the Odysseus Ball. There's a line, there's a line in the song, in the movie that isn't on the soundtrack, where he kind of sounds like SpongeBob for two seconds, and I laughed internally in the theater. I'm like, oh my god.

[20:15] Jesse McAnally: It's because you are so beautiful!

[20:16] Andrew DeWolf: SpongeBob, come back. SpongeBob, you're not here. I think he's great. I think Jonathan Bailey as Fiero is astounding in a way of... He has chemistry with every person he is on screen with, and it doesn't... Often, you see a quote-unquote hot guy in a movie, and it's Edward Cullen in fucking Twilight, and you're like, what? This time, I'm like, oh, oh, I get it. I get it. Apparently, behind the scenes, even the crew was obsessed with Jonathan Bailey, so during the Dance Through Life scene, even they were the background actors.

[20:50] Brianna Jones: Oh my god.

[20:51] Andrew DeWolf: And I believe it. And that scene is the most impressive cinematography-wise and choreography-wise, where they're flipping all over the fucking hamster wheels and all that. It's really, really good. I wish we could see it better with all these blare-out lightings and desaturated looks. That's been talked to death, and I really don't want to go into it.

[21:14] Jesse McAnally: Was Jonathan Bailey your favorite Fiero so far?

[21:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because Fiero's kind of a non-character in the stage show. Apparently, people on TikTok are talking about their favorite Fiero. I like Aaron. I like a lot. Honestly, Adam Lambert is a shockingly good Fiero. Those are the TikToks I kept getting. But I'm an Elphaba and Glinda ranker more than I am a Fiero guy.

[21:43] Jesse McAnally: Okay, let's talk about the goat.

[21:46] Andrew DeWolf: I like the goat.

[21:47] Jesse McAnally: I like the goat. He's the goat. Peter Dinklage as Dr. Dillamond, here's a nitpick thing, but it's a taste thing. This is 100% a taste thing. I really like, on stage, how the animals are kind of half-human, half-animal hybrids, kind of like the cowardly lion is in the original Wizard of Oz movie. They make him just a goat and just a sugar glider and just a lion, and I really think I would have preferred the more fantastical element of it being a human being and I wouldn't have that little disconnect.

[22:25] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but cats.

[22:27] Jesse McAnally: I'm not saying CGI them. I'm saying makeup.

[22:29] Andrew DeWolf: I know, but they would get cats comparisons and then that would be downfall in the press.

[22:35] Jesse McAnally: I guess, but look at Dillamond on stage and that's fine. I am kind of fine with what they did.

[22:42] Andrew DeWolf: I am too, but I think it'll age badly. I think it's one of the few things that will make this film not stand the test of time the way I think it could. I think that the one issue I had with the way they did it is that now you can't really tell what are just animals and what are talking animals. There wasn't really a way to tell. Like, the frogs don't talk. Why can't they talk, you know? Even the horse does. There's just certain animals that can talk and certain ones that couldn't, and I don't know. In the stage show, they literally become more animal-like. They lose their human-animal hybrid qualities. It's more difficult to tell because they're just somehow losing the ability to speak. It's not really the same. I don't know, but that's the only issue. It's not really even an issue. It's more just like it makes it harder to decipher the plot, I guess. And I hope that they do elaborate more on the animal rights side of that.

[23:47] Jesse McAnally: How did we feel about Jeff Goldblum as the wizard?

[23:50] Brianna Jones: Great.

[23:50] Andrew DeWolf: Amazing.

[23:51] Jesse McAnally: I actually, I was worried about that. I was worried about it. I thought that it was going to be too distracting, but honestly, he did a great job.

[23:57] Brianna Jones: Yeah.

[23:58] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I would agree.

[24:01] Jesse McAnally: But Andrew, you brought up the action figures.

[24:07] Andrew DeWolf: The...

[24:09] Jesse McAnally: Well, you brought up the action figures. I just mentioned something about them. But Jeff Goldblum has action figures of himself and of one of the girls he invites to his house. He shows off his little Lego collection. Andrew, this is when you insert that scene in Spaceballs where Darth Helmet is playing with the figures.

[24:29] Andrew DeWolf: Leave me alone.

[24:29] Jesse McAnally: No, kiss me.

[24:30] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, yes, no.

[24:32] Jesse McAnally: No. Yes, no, yes.

[24:35] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

[24:39] Jesse McAnally: Your helmet is so big.

[24:42] Andrew DeWolf: Lord Helmet.

[24:42] Jesse McAnally: What?

[24:43] Andrew DeWolf: You need it on the bridge, sir.

[24:45] Jesse McAnally: Knock on my door. Knock next time.

[24:47] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, sir. Did you see anything?

[24:49] Jesse McAnally: No, sir. I didn't see you playing with your dolls again.

[24:52] Andrew DeWolf: Good.

[24:53] Jesse McAnally: Okay, so there was one detail about the figures that you didn't talk about, but I liked, I thought was fun is that she had, he made the little hat, the ugly hat. And the only way he would know about that hat is if the woman that wrote him the letter told him, she wears this ugly ass hat. I was mad that she wrote it that way, too. She wears this ugly hat. Here's a picture. Otherwise, how would he know? I guess he has spies everywhere, though.

[25:22] Brianna Jones: I mean, speaking of her, Michelle Yeoh, I think a little underwhelming until she makes that evil turn at the end. And then I'm like, oh, okay, you're locked in now. But she didn't have much to lock in on beforehand because she's trying to trick Elphaba into doing nefarious things. And they kind of took away all the nefarious things she does in Act 1 and gave it to the Kayla Seidel character that's new in this one, where she's now the one that kicks Diliman out of her office. She's the one that's a little racist towards Elphaba. And Matt Aborable is just like, yes, you'll come with me. No, not you. Like, just shows up and is a little-

[26:00] Andrew DeWolf: It makes the twist hit harder, though.

[26:02] Brianna Jones: Yeah, I like it because she's saving face to Elphaba. She's kind of thinking the things the Kayla Seidel character's thinking, but it's like saving face with her so she can get her to Emerald City and do all this stuff.

[26:22] Jesse McAnally: I talked about this with Tommy from Musical Theater Mash last night, and I want to bring it up because it's the thing when it happens on stage, it's fine, but in this movie, it's very weird. So there's that moment where Elphaba invites Glinda, or Elphaba gets invited by Glinda to the fucking illegal party in wherever. The illegal party in quotes because Matt Aborable shows up and is like, I don't give a shit what you guys are doing.

[26:50] Andrew DeWolf: That's what I'm literally about to bring up. So in the middle of the night, imagine your student knocks on your door and says, hey, I need you to do this thing right now and come to this illegal party, or else I'm dropping out. So you get your fucking clothes on to give another student something. Here's your art history textbook. Join my class. I don't think you'll be good. It's like weird if you think about it where it's like, oh, she's just a teacher that is doing this for no reason, but she's not just a teacher that's doing this for no reason. She's working with the wizard and she needs Elphaba's powers to make her evil shit happen. It's a weird scene, and it felt very strange to watch.

[27:33] Jesse McAnally: I guess, but it makes sense if you look at it in context of what's actually happening. Of course she doesn't give a shit about this illegal party. What does that matter compared to more power and control into my hands, you know? Also, if she does this for Elphaba and gives Glinda this shot, then she'll feel more in debt to Morrible for agreeing to do this, thus letting her, getting her to the Emerald City to put wings in monkeys.

[28:01] Brianna Jones: But wouldn't you think like somebody would have reacted like, holy shit, like she's here.

[28:05] Andrew DeWolf: I think Glinda did for a second. It's like, what are you doing here? And she's like, look, I don't give a shit without even saying, look, I don't give a shit what you're doing. Some great eyeball acting from Michelle Yeoh. I have so much more to say about this movie, but a lot of it has to do with songs, which thankfully we've kind of avoided talking about in detail, but how about we go into a mid-show, play a little game and then talk about these songs.

[28:29] Jesse McAnally: Okay. Sounds good.

[28:41] Jesse McAnally: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt in the middle of the show, but we've got a shilling.

[28:45] Andrew DeWolf: Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[28:50] Jess McAnally: Andrew, tell us a little bit about Patreon.

[28:54] Andrew DeWolf: Patreon is where you can go if you want to help support the show and get some extra content and some more input on the show as well. What do we offer right now? You can listen to the show as we record it.

[29:05] Jess McAnally: Yeah, you get access to all of our Patreon with Cheese content, which I'm sure there will be some Christmas stuff coming up.

[29:12] Andrew DeWolf: I'm sure there will be. You'll get our edited video episodes early. I know Liz is working on our video version of our Rankin Bass episodes from a couple years back.

[29:24] Jess McAnally: It's taking a little bit because it's a very long podcast episode.

[29:30] Andrew DeWolf: Every fucking Rudolph just got finished last week and my life has been insane. So I'm a little behind, but I got, I'm a little drummer, almost a little drummer boy because you had nothing to say about it.

[29:39] Jess McAnally: I mean, that is the most boring.

[29:41] Andrew DeWolf: Also, if you were like our patron, late knackles, who chose our last week's episode on Dodgeball, that was pretty cool. If you get to our $100 level, you can be a guest just like our good friend Bree is right now.

[29:53] Jess McAnally: They didn't pay that money, but you can be like them. And also there's just, we have our monthly Patreon meetups and I think we would have just passed, so you missed it. But there's gonna be another one in December.

[30:06] Andrew DeWolf: Don't get too sad yet. Jess and I've been talking about doing some Crazy Ex-Girlfriend content potentially.

[30:12] Jess McAnally: Oh yes, we are.

[30:17] Andrew DeWolf: And maybe finishing up Schmigadoon one day. Maybe.

[30:22] Andrew DeWolf: Our current patrons are: Late Ackles, Ewan Cassidy, Monica Thoroughbred Black, Nathaniel Stacy Coombe, John Van Al's, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Janice II, At Least Are Nothing Is Certain Except Beth and Taxes, Thespian Chai Teacup, Chris Marcote, Kiji Marie Anastasio, RJ Noriega, Sebastian Canino, Cinema Getting Reviews, Joe Bjorn, Herman's, Toriana Frazier, Sammy the Adequate Amount, Jacobson, Haley Blazier, The Omega Geek, Maddie Wargill, Lisa Erdman.

[30:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I turned into RFK Jr. there for a second, Evan.

[30:48] Jess McAnally: Well, we're up. Araso, Mara, Possessed Washing Machine, Nick Roten, Puffy Boy, Sidney Hicks, Gold-Plated Kiki Mora, Aria, Archie, Emma, Cara Balda, JRL Studios, Alexandra Dom, Flippity Jig it, Kayla Bailey, and Andy Bryan. They all let give us money to keep us going here and we love you all.

[31:04] Andrew DeWolf: Individually, let's give you all a big kiss. Um, I love you.

[31:10] Jess McAnally: All right. Let's get back to the show.

[31:23] Andrew DeWolf: And now it is time for everyone's favorite part of the show and the namesake of our guests. It's time for...

[31:35] Jess McAnally: Previews!

[31:36] Andrew DeWolf: Letterboxd game! We still do, you're named after a review section.

[31:42] Brianna Jones: That's wild.

[31:45] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[31:48] Brianna Jones: Yeah, I am the new Brie. So...

[31:51] Andrew DeWolf: But now we just spelled Brie B-R-E. I because it's a cheese.

[31:55] Brianna Jones: Oh, are you really? You really got rid of the E-E?

[31:59] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. We haven't spelled it recently. We've never spelled it. We don't really spell it here. Although now we have video versions.

[32:02] Jess McAnally: Yeah, maybe we should just spell it with Brie B-R-E for old times' sake forever.

[32:08] Andrew DeWolf: So if this is your first episode of the Cheese Wheel podcast, this is a game where Liz pulled real-life Letterboxd reviews and Andrew and Brie are gonna go head-to-head to guess whether they're one star or five star based on nothing but the review alone.

[32:21] Jess McAnally: And I think we're kind of lined up good enough here where it can be boys versus girls.

[32:28] Brianna Jones: It better be boys versus girls.

[32:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[32:31] Andrew DeWolf: Brie can remember how this goes. Okay. All right, you ready? I do plan to win, so yes.

[32:38] Brianna Jones: In your dreams.

[32:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, girl power! Brie has to win.

[32:48] Brianna Jones: And they didn't kiss.

[32:53] Andrew DeWolf: They came close.

[32:59] Jess McAnally: Andrew, I want to do that Elphaba Glinda dance with you. Like I just feel like that would be really rewarding to our friendship.

[33:03] Brianna Jones: Oh!

[33:04] Andrew DeWolf: Boy, they didn't. I'm gonna say five.

[33:07] Brianna Jones: I think five. That is correct.

[33:10] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Brie. Are you ready?

[33:11] Brianna Jones: Yes.

[33:14] Andrew DeWolf: The way Jonathan Bailey...

[33:20] Brianna Jones: Backtrack! The way the entire theater moaned every single time Jonathan Bailey was on screen should be studied.

[33:24] Andrew DeWolf: Mmm, five stars 'cause it's about Jonathan Bailey.

[33:25] Brianna Jones: Absolutely.

[33:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think you wrote this one.

[33:32] Brianna Jones: I may have. I think I could rock a witch hat, you know.

[33:38] Andrew DeWolf: I actually have a witch hat in the other room and I was rocking it not too long ago.

[33:44] Brianna Jones: You didn't wear it to the theater?

[33:46] Andrew DeWolf: No, I didn't. But somebody that worked at the theater was wearing essentially the same witch hat that we have here. It's not my witch hat, by the way, but it's just in the house and I've worn it.

[33:49] Brianna Jones: I think this is a one. I think this is a one-star.

[34:00] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. High game here. All right, Brie. You ready?

[34:03] Brianna Jones: Mm-hmm.

[34:09] Andrew DeWolf: Felt like a Marvel movie, did it though?

[34:12] Brianna Jones: This feels offensive to be honest.

[34:19] Andrew DeWolf: I assume they didn't like it and I'm gonna give it a one-star.

[34:24] Brianna Jones: That is correct. Yes.

[34:28] Andrew DeWolf: I got a Marvel movie. I did not get those vibes. The ending maybe.

[34:33] Brianna Jones: The ending is like 15 minutes out of...

[34:37] Andrew DeWolf: There. I would call this a sandwich of Marvel movie elements. I think the opening felt like a Marvel movie and the ending felt like a Marvel movie, but the rest of it just felt like a weird musical.

[34:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, how was she flying without riding the broom?

[34:56] Brianna Jones: Well, she was holding the broom.

[34:59] Andrew DeWolf: Media literacy is not this person's strong suit, but oh Jesus, that mean they blindly like it or they hate it?

[35:04] Brianna Jones: Hmm, I'm gonna say five. This is probably wrong though, but five.

[35:10] Andrew DeWolf: That is a one, Andrew. You're wrong.

[35:15] Brianna Jones: You can take the lead here.

[35:23] Andrew DeWolf: What is this feeling? Well, it looked like lesbianism to me. Five stars for the lesbians!

[35:26] Brianna Jones: Five stars for the lesbians! Love you!

[35:29] Andrew DeWolf: Shout out to the lesbians! Andrew, you ready?

[35:41] Andrew DeWolf: I'm ready. We can... It's like Dune for theater nerds.

[35:47] Brianna Jones: I love the Oz train. I love the Oz train, the gear train. I love that shit.

[35:52] Andrew DeWolf: Can you read it again? I think we got sidetracked.

[35:58] Brianna Jones: Wicked is like... See, I didn't see Dune, so I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I do know that everyone likes Dune, so I'm gonna say five.

[36:10] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. All right, Brie.

[36:13] Brianna Jones: All right, and she came down in a bubble.

[36:21] Andrew DeWolf: Five stars.

[36:21] Brianna Jones: She did! That's actually a one-star.

[36:28] Andrew DeWolf: That's in the one guy yelling at his friend. She came down in a fucking bubble. She came down in a bubble, dude.

[36:32] Brianna Jones: Hey, were they sisters?

[36:34] Andrew DeWolf: That was staged. There's no way that that was...

[36:41] Brianna Jones: Andrew, yes! Oh my god, and they were roommates!

[36:44] Andrew DeWolf: You the vine! Oh my god!

[36:48] Brianna Jones: Wait, five!

[36:51] Andrew DeWolf: And you've taken the lead! I actually can't believe I got that right. I was about to say one. I did...

[36:58] Brianna Jones: There's like four different iterations of the "and they were roommates" quote, and I just picked...

[37:03] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Brie, you're ready?

[37:04] Brianna Jones: Yes, I will never recover.

[37:11] Andrew DeWolf: Five stars, correct.

[37:16] Brianna Jones: You know what? I won't recover either.

[37:19] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, I'm Jonathan Bailey or well Ian. I thought Jess would like that one.

[37:24] Brianna Jones: That was or well. I mean, it is in a sense big brother. They do put Jeff Goldblum's face around a lot, very similar to big brother.

[37:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and then earlier in the movie there's posters of the witch like big brother as well. It felt very racist and then I don't know, invest comes out. It's like welcome to big brother.

[37:44] Brianna Jones: Shit, it's a weird review. I'm gonna say one for this one.

[37:46] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. I'm like, I feel like I'm playing with fire on these.

[37:52] Brianna Jones: You could either tie it or have Andrew win. I'm in a good position here. I like those odds.

[38:12] Andrew DeWolf: At times when they're even numbers and you get even numbers wrong.

[38:17] Brianna Jones: All right, it was pretty and I liked Jeff Goldblum. Five stars!

[38:29] Andrew DeWolf: I am the best at previews. They should really change the name to Andrew Andrews.

[38:38] Brianna Jones: I will be back on next year to go. We're gonna go head-to-head for part two.

[38:46] Andrew DeWolf: Musical comes out in between. I don't think there will be, but if there is, you are back for that. You are like our new release mainstay.

[38:51] Brianna Jones: I love that.

[38:59] Andrew DeWolf: Let's talk about some of these songs starting with "No One Mourns the Wicked."

[39:29] ♪ Musical number: "No One Mourns the Wicked" — performed by Brianna Jones and Andrew DeWolf ♪

[40:09] No.

[40:13] The goodness starts the wicked.

[40:17] Their lives, our children.

[40:19] What we miss when we miss.

[40:49] Oh.

[40:51] Bri and I saw this in one of the biggest theaters in the world with some of the best speakers in the world, but they fucked it up. I don't know if you guys have seen Jon M. Chu's recent tweet where he's like, uh, you gotta tell the theater to like turn it, turn up the volume.

[41:27] Andrew DeWolf: I, yeah, the volume was a little low in my theater as well. I think they corrected it by my theater. I can't tell. It was bad. Like, and "No One Mourns the Wicked," I was, Miranda, my partner and I gave a look like, she's like, I can't fucking hear the music. And I'm like, 'cause she has issues with tinnitus. So she often can't tell if it's just something going on with her or if it's a larger issue. And I'm like, you're not going crazy. It's bad because the center channel is right in front of us and it's so loud. So we're getting the vocals and we're getting the sound effects, but the score, the background music now, and it was rough because I, I, I, because we all know how "No One Mourns the Wicked" starts and the entire stage shakes on stage and we just got like fucking bombarded with flying monkey noises over it.

So I, I was really disappointed by how a lot of these songs sounded. And I don't know if this was another thing that only I noticed 'cause I'm autistic or something, but the score, like the incidental music by John Powell sounded so much better produced than the actual songs. Like it seems like it took a quality jump as far as the mixing and the overall sound production as soon as a number started than the actual score of the movie. And it was frustrating at a certain point, but I wish I could see this again and have a better opinion.

[43:07] Andrew DeWolf: But it is kind of painting how disappointed I was with "No One Mourns the Wicked," whereas on the soundtrack, it sounds great.

[43:37] Jess McAnally: And you literally just got, you got screwed, dude. How'd you feel about it, Bria? Am I crazy? Like, did you also have this issue?

[43:47] Brianna Jones: No, I also thought the audio mix was really weird. And again, maybe it was just our theater. But I completely agree with you on how it sounds better on the soundtrack.

[44:00] Andrew DeWolf: So you've heard the soundtrack version, though?

[44:03] Brianna Jones: Yes.

[44:03] Andrew DeWolf: So we could talk about the soundtrack version as if it was what you heard in theater.

[44:07] Brianna Jones: Yeah, and that sounds great. But also the staging and visuals are an element to this as well.

[44:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, so some of the staging in this song I like. I guess maybe not staging, the set piece elements. I like the visual of the bubble floating down is good. They do a good job with it.

[44:27] Brianna Jones: Um, I like the burning man that comes out. That's really cool. I like the big, the big poster. All those elements are good. I think the way that they're shot undersell how massive the crowd they have is like, I don't feel the power of this. And I don't know about you. In the stage show, you kind of have to light things a little darker. And this just felt like a little overblown and overlit.

[44:56] Andrew DeWolf: Potentially with the overlit. I could see that. I could see that too. Maybe you wanted a bit more of a, like a harsher light on this, especially with how dark of a song it kind of is at certain points. But I mean, still, it looks, it looks generally fine. And I think that the set pieces feel large enough that it sold it for me, at least.

[45:19] Brianna Jones: Honestly, my favorite part of this song are the flashback sequences, which are staged as pitch perfectly as they can be and expanded in ways. Um, little baby Ness is like, yes, is like the highlight of that movie. And Jeff Goldblum, like playing younger Jeff Goldblum, like in a way where it's very clearly his voice, but they did something to make it younger.

[45:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. My boyfriend didn't pick up on it. Cause I hinted, like, it's obvious who the traveling salesman is. And he was like, I have no idea what you're fucking talking about. So he has no fucking idea. Um, but aside from that, like Ariana Grande is putting on a grand performance, but I think the visuals let down what she's doing a little bit here. And this is the only song that I kind of feel that way about. Um.

[46:03] Brianna Jones: They also could have tampered down the darkness because it is the first scene and they are trying to market this to kids and they don't want the kids to be like, mommy, this is scary.

[46:12] Jess McAnally: Yes. But we start out like what is, might as well be the corpse of the wicked witch as the first shot of the film.

[46:18] Brianna Jones: That's true. It's like a, it's a hard balance with this. Cause marketed kids are just really fucking dark.

[46:23] Andrew DeWolf: Did you notice Elphaba riding away on the horse? So we literally just get the ending of the movie in the first shot.

[46:29] Brianna Jones: I didn't even notice that.

[46:30] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[46:31] Brianna Jones: I didn't notice. I just noticed a horse. I thought that was Fierro.

[46:34] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, no Fierro's.

[46:35] Brianna Jones: I know Fierro. I know Fierro is, I know the Fierro is the scarecrow, obviously spoiler alert, but like, I think the movie was hinting that was Fierro cause he shows up on a horse later.

[46:43] Andrew DeWolf: So.

[46:43] Brianna Jones: It's the same horse.

[46:44] Andrew DeWolf: So it's a red herring.

[46:45] Brianna Jones: Yeah.

[46:45] Andrew DeWolf: You're right.

[46:46] Brianna Jones: It's a red herring for the audience.

[46:48] Jess McAnally: I, I, I think it's really effective performance wise. Um, the extras not, not given as bloodthirsty as I was hoping, you know.

[46:58] Brianna Jones: I think Junchi was a bloodthirsty man. Um, and I, I loved little baby Elphaba, uh, but let's move on to "The Wizard and I."

[47:07] Andrew DeWolf: Cause "Dear Old Chase" is not really a song. It might as well, might as well be instrumental. It's on the soundtrack. Skipping that. Skipping that.

[47:15] Brianna Jones: Yep.

[47:18] ♪ Musical number: "The Wizard and I" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[48:04] Andrew DeWolf: I like "The Wizard and I." I think they did a good job. And there's a lot of frogs, like a lot of frogs.

[48:08] Brianna Jones: I like the frogs.

[48:08] Andrew DeWolf: I like how many frogs there are.

[48:10] Brianna Jones: I like how she hops with the frogs.

[48:12] Andrew DeWolf: I like the frogs. I'm upset she didn't pick one of the frogs up. I wanted that to happen.

[48:15] Brianna Jones: Did you want her to kiss one of the frogs too?

[48:20] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my God. That would have been nice. Actually, it would have been cool if the camera like kind of centered on the frog and then the movie just followed the frog for the rest of it. And then it turns into an adaptation of Stephen Sondheim's "The Frog." Hashtag release "The Frog Cut."

[48:34] Brianna Jones: No, but I like what they did with this one. I also like that this is the song where she like runs out of the top of the of shiz or whatever. And you can see like the never ending desert that surrounds Oz or whatever.

[48:48] Andrew DeWolf: The Deadly Desert from "Return to Oz."

[48:51] Brianna Jones: Yes, I was thinking like, is that are we doing the Oz lore? Like, is that the Deadly Desert? They reference Mambi from Oz as one of the faculty members.

[49:00] Andrew DeWolf: Should I watch "Return to Oz"?

[49:01] Brianna Jones: I've never actually seen it.

[49:02] Andrew DeWolf: "Return to Oz" is great. I love it.

[49:04] Brianna Jones: I don't think I've ever seen it.

[49:04] Andrew DeWolf: Definitely should watch "Return to Oz."

[49:05] Brianna Jones: I've never seen "Return to Oz."

[49:07] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Maybe we should just do a bonus Patreon episode where I force you to watch "Return to Oz."

[49:11] Brianna Jones: "Return to Oz" is fantastic. Definitely check that out.

[49:16] Andrew DeWolf: It had like one of the few moments where I gasped at like staging and lighting in a movie, which is when she's describing what she wants from the wizard. And she steps into these lights, these things that change color, like these dangly things.

[49:35] Brianna Jones: And they're red. And she's like, has to be de-greenified. And it turns her skin into Cynthia Erivo's proper dark complexion. And I was like, oh my!

[49:47] Andrew DeWolf: It was like-

[49:48] Brianna Jones: That was great. And no one else is bringing that up. And that is like probably the most jaw-dropping part of this movie.

[49:54] Andrew DeWolf: The best visual effect in this movie is just that simple. That felt like something that could have been in Spielberg's "West Side Story," which is like the gold standard as far as modern musicals, in my opinion.

[50:07] Brianna Jones: That being said, I like that it kind of sets up her relationship with gravity early on. That she's kind of able to levitate herself. And she's kind of good positive feelings when she-

[50:12] Andrew DeWolf: Because we see like negative feelings and how it becomes destructive. But positive feelings raise her up.

[50:24] Brianna Jones: I don't know. It was like a really neat kind of showing of her powers. Bree, what did you think of the song?

[50:30] Brianna Jones: I really liked this song. I think this would be the first time I've really ever heard Cynthia Erivo sing besides the trailer. And I was blown away. I mean, she's incredible.

[50:42] Andrew DeWolf: You should listen to her in "The Color Purple."

[50:45] Brianna Jones: She's very, very good in that.

[50:48] Andrew DeWolf: What is this feeling? Also very good.

[50:51] Brianna Jones: I have very little to say about this aside from this is kind of the only way anyone could have shot this number.

[50:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm kind of obsessed with it. Also, most of the scene is currently on YouTube as we speak.

[51:04] Brianna Jones: So I've been re-watching it occasionally.

[51:07] Andrew DeWolf: Me too, Liz. Me too.

[51:08] Brianna Jones: It's a lot of fun to watch.

[51:10] Andrew DeWolf: It is.

[51:10] Brianna Jones: Their dynamic is great. Their voices sound amazing together.

[51:13] Andrew DeWolf: Their voices together just hit me. It's like so good.

[51:17] Brianna Jones: It's like they hate each other, but there's just so much love there that's undercurrent that's only in female friendships. I kind of hate you, but I want to be friends with you.

[51:25] Andrew DeWolf: I think we're the only ones that could grasp that between the four of us.

[51:29] Brianna Jones: Yeah, yeah.

[51:31] Andrew DeWolf: No, me and Jess totally get it.

[51:37] Brianna Jones: That's true.

[51:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they hate each other, but they also want to be friends.

[51:45] Brianna Jones: I don't have any more to add to that song. It's really, really well done.

[51:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, now it's a dance meme on TikTok.

[51:52] Brianna Jones: It's not even the best dancing in this movie, though.

[51:54] Andrew DeWolf: I know, but it's the one that's available on the internet.

[51:58] ♪ Musical number: "Something Bad" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[52:39] Andrew DeWolf: What is there to say about this?

[52:40] Brianna Jones: I have stuff to say about this.

[52:41] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[52:41] Brianna Jones: I like the shadow. I like the shadowy part. It was very cool. Um, my favorite part about Dillamond in this musical, like, he kind of hates Elphaba, too. In the stage show, he's like, oh, Elphaba, you're my favorite student. And they're like, oh, yes, we bond. And he's like, yo, get the fuck away from me. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Why are you following me, weird student? Like, it's a weird kind of parasocial thing they got there. And I thought that was really funny.

[53:09] Andrew DeWolf: And it's like the only song in the show that is better than it was on stage by leaps and bounds. And it kind of makes this animal problem seem much bigger than one character. It seems like a proper underground terrorist issue. It actually feels like something that they have to resolve now.

[53:29] Brianna Jones: Yeah. Like, if they don't resolve this in part two, it's actually going to be kind of like a, oh, jeez, I guess Dr. Dillamond's just dead now.

[53:39] Andrew DeWolf: Well, no, Dr. Dillamond appears in act two, and they just drag him out. And he's like, can't talk no more.

[53:45] Brianna Jones: Yeah. Like, I feel like you actually, you need to have a real proper resolution now. But we'll see if that happens.

[53:52] Andrew DeWolf: How much you want to bet that Fiyero's horse loses the ability to speak sometime in movie two?

[53:57] Brianna Jones: I'm going to cry.

[53:57] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like that's going to be a scene.

[53:59] Brianna Jones: I'm going to cry. It's going to be like the horse getting stuck in the quicksand.

[54:04] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, no.

[54:04] Brianna Jones: Oh, it's text.

[54:06] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it's text!

[54:07] ♪ Musical number: "Dancing Through Life" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[56:01] Andrew DeWolf: Dynamic changes of the movie is Bach. I don't even think Bach is jealous of him in this. He like idolizes and wants to fuck him here. I think.

[56:11] Brianna Jones: I think Ethan Slater just saw him and was like, oh my god.

[56:14] Andrew DeWolf: How am I supposed to hate him?

[56:15] Brianna Jones: But they have so much coming and like in the musical like Fiyero was kind of just mean to Bach and like dismissive of him and here he's like, come on little buddy. Let's hang out and that is somehow making him even hotter.

[56:28] Andrew DeWolf: He's very, he's very like likable he's a he's a proper himbo I think.

[56:37] Brianna Jones: He'd be a mistake I would have in college but he's not a himbo he's got something deeper underneath you'd like saving lions.

[56:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but he's only he only likes one girl. Jess. He doesn't like you. Well, I'm not saying.

[56:51] Brianna Jones: And besides does he only like one girl? I don't can't tell what okay.

[56:58] Andrew DeWolf: By the end he only liked Elphaba.

[57:00] Brianna Jones: So one of the brilliant things this film does is they give them a scene to meet first before he even knows Glinda exists. I thought that was a really smart addition.

[57:07] Andrew DeWolf: I wish I could see what the fuck was going on in that scene.

[57:13] Brianna Jones: It was just so dark.

[57:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it was a little dark. I could see I could see it.

[57:22] Brianna Jones: Okay, but yeah, it gave more of a vibe where he's like, oh, that's the girl that didn't want me. It's Gaston and Belle except for not as bad.

[57:30] Andrew DeWolf: It was right, like, ever after when, uh, Drew Barrymore meets the Prince the first time.

[57:33] Jess McAnally: He's like, she's like, get the fuck out of my way, and he's like, ooooh.

[57:36] Andrew DeWolf: Remember when that talk show host was an actress?

[57:39] Jess McAnally: Yeah, but now she's a talk show host.

[57:41] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I feel that way every time I see Jennifer Hudson show. I'm like, girl, you are, like, one of the best actors. Can we put you back in movies?

[57:49] Jess McAnally: She was in Cats. She can't go back.

[57:51] Andrew DeWolf: She's still incredible in Cats.

[57:52] Jess McAnally: I know, she's so good in Cats, though, she promised it was still Cats.

[57:57] ♪ Musical number: "I'm Not That Girl" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[59:48] ♪ Musical number: "I'm Not That Girl" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[1:00:12] ♪ Musical number: "One Short Day" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[1:01:39] ♪ Musical number: "One Short Day" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[1:02:09] Andrew DeWolf: I was pandered to, everybody!

[1:02:39] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:02:49] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:02:59] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:03:03] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:03:09] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:03:19] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:03:29] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:03:49] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:03:59] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:04:09] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:04:29] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:04:49] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:05:09] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:05:29] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:05:39] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:05:49] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:06:09] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:06:29] Andrew DeWolf: Radar Moreno.

[1:06:49] Jess McAnally: Radar Moreno.

[1:07:12] ♪ Musical number: "Defying Gravity" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[1:09:49] ♪ Musical number: "Defying Gravity" — performed by Brianna Jones ♪

[1:11:51] Andrew DeWolf: The Wizard of Oz.

[1:12:21] Jess McAnally: She's been showing up to premieres wearing silver slippers.

[1:12:52] Brianna Jones: Dorothy's not in the stage show, right?

[1:12:56] Andrew DeWolf: No, you just hear about her offstage.

[1:13:00] Brianna Jones: I think we might get some of that in there.

[1:13:04] Jess McAnally: They did cut references to the Wizard of Oz film from this.

[1:13:08] Andrew DeWolf: From the movie that were in the stage show.

[1:13:12] Brianna Jones: Which is when they're drinking punch and he's like, what is this? Lemons and mangoes and pears? Oh my!

[1:13:20] Jess McAnally: Maybe they're trying to distance themselves so they can actually flesh it out later.

[1:13:24] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe because One Short Day had so much pandering in it, they cut some of the pandering that was already in the script.

[1:13:28] Brianna Jones: Maybe.

[1:13:32] Jess McAnally: I wonder if Act 2 is just going to be Wizard of Oz. Like, we get a Liza Minnelli cameo.

[1:13:36] Brianna Jones: That'd be great. I would be down with that. She should be the woman on top of the piano during Wonderful.

[1:13:40] Andrew DeWolf: She just shows up.

[1:13:44] Jess McAnally: It's the Wicked title as well. It's the Wizard of Oz font.

[1:13:48] Brianna Jones: They're doing classic movie titling.

[1:13:52] Andrew DeWolf: I loved the Universal Pictures classic.

[1:13:56] Jess McAnally: I caught that one too.

[1:14:00] Brianna Jones: I also love the trend on Twitter where you take a picture of the Wicked title card as you're watching the movie to annoy all the people you're going to the movie with.

[1:14:04] Andrew DeWolf: We don't whip our fucking phones out in the middle of a movie.

[1:14:08] Jess McAnally: Stop recording the movie and putting it on Twitter, people. It's annoying.

[1:14:12] Brianna Jones: Torrent it like an adult.

[1:14:16] Andrew DeWolf: What is our overall thoughts on Wicked Part 1 and our cheese ratings? Bree, why don't you start us off?

[1:14:24] Brianna Jones: Oh my gosh. I liked it. I am curious to see what they do in Part 2, but Part 1 was really good. I think you should go see it if you haven't seen Wicked or if you have. In terms of a cheese...

[1:14:40] Brianna Jones: Hell.

[1:14:44] Andrew DeWolf: The classic move where you google cheese.

[1:14:48] Brianna Jones: You just do it on the fly.

[1:14:52] Jess McAnally: We don't make these up in advance, guys.

[1:14:56] Brianna Jones: I'm going to do a cubed cheddar cheese. If you lay them all down, they will create a yellow cheese road.

[1:15:04] Andrew DeWolf: I like that they picked that from a switch.

[1:15:08] Brianna Jones: It's so stupid. There's so much dumb stuff in this movie. I like that.

[1:15:12] Jess McAnally: But why wouldn't he make it a green brick road?

[1:15:20] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe he wants to get off-brand.

[1:15:24] Brianna Jones: It's going to be hard to see the road through all the grass.

[1:15:28] Jess McAnally: Liz, you're next.

[1:15:32] Liz Esten: I like Wicked a lot. I like this movie quite a bit. I don't remember much about the stage show. It was the first show I saw on Broadway, so I guess I have some sentimentality to this.

[1:15:44] Brianna Jones: You're a sentimental gal.

[1:15:48] Liz Esten: I don't remember much, but I enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun. Definitely go see it. It doesn't feel too long. I'm excited to see what they do for Part 2. We'll see what the trailers look like.

[1:16:08] Andrew DeWolf: In this case, I guess. I'm going to give Wicked Part 1 half a wheel of witch grass cheese.

[1:16:16] Brianna Jones: It's witch grass!

[1:16:20] Andrew DeWolf: You're up next.

[1:16:28] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't have high expectations for this, and I walked away pretty damn happy. I thought they did a great job. This is the rare, good, modern movie musical. We have this one, In the Heights, and West Side Story.

[1:16:44] Brianna Jones: Would you include Tick Tick Boom in there?

[1:16:48] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe.

[1:16:52] Brianna Jones: Dear Evan Hansen and Cats go in the shit bin.

[1:16:56] Andrew DeWolf: Sometimes that's where things go.

[1:17:00] Jess McAnally: I like shit bin.

[1:17:04] Andrew DeWolf: Crap hole. I'm going to give this a woman shago cheese from the cheese shop of Salem, which is where witches are in the real world. I've been there.

[1:17:20] Brianna Jones: I did not like this as much as everyone else. It's become a little overhyped, and it's going to age poorly. I do want to say I want to watch it again with proper audio mixing. My eyes were not pleased. My ears were not pleased.

[1:17:40] Andrew DeWolf: I guess that isn't a pleasant viewing experience. I think someone should, because obviously their colorist didn't. That being said, I was describing this to Liz and Brie off mic. Instead of a death by a thousand cuts, this is a fix by a thousand band-aids. And it's just enough that you're going to survive and it's going to actually be all right. But that gash is still underneath that, and you should probably get medical attention for it. And that gash is Wicked Part 2.

[1:18:16] Brianna Jones: It really will be defined by what the second part is, truly.

[1:18:20] Andrew DeWolf: It's going to be wonderful. I think Jon M. Chu has proved himself very well to be a great director, great at casting individuals, and really effective at adapting these stories. So I am going to give this the same cheese rating I gave Wicked when we covered it the first time. And that is chocolate cheese.

[1:18:44] Brianna Jones: I did nearly give this green witch cheese, because I think that's what Andrew gave Wizard of Oz. So I nearly did that.

[1:18:52] Andrew DeWolf: I nearly did that. I did not do it. What do you think of the Wicked film? I know you saw it, so leave us a comment there. Because on Spotify you can leave comments, and also on Spotify you can do videos now. Isn't that wacky?

[1:19:04] Jess McAnally: We are contractually obligated to do videos on Spotify now. How do you like it? Look at our faces!

[1:19:12] Andrew DeWolf: Are we as pretty as you thought we would be? Man, I bet you thought we'd be hotter. Sorry!

[1:19:24] Brianna Jones: Brie, thank you for joining us. Do you have anything to promote? I doubt it, because last time we were like, no!

[1:19:32] Brianna Jones: Oh, promote? No. You can't find Brie anywhere.

[1:19:36] Andrew DeWolf: You can't find Brie anywhere online. Sorry.

[1:19:40] Brianna Jones: And don't look for me.

[1:19:44] Andrew DeWolf: Listen to Brie's previous episodes she guested on, and listen to episodes that Brie produced. Honestly, I feel like we're fairly positive about the Mean Girls movie, but man, this blows that out the water, doesn't it?

[1:19:56] Jess McAnally: Speaking of being blown out the water, thank you for listening. Please follow us on iTunes and Spotify.

[1:20:04] Andrew DeWolf: Do we need to spin the wheel first?

[1:20:08] Jess McAnally: He thought we were doing musicals with cheese. Now just out of my circle here is a big wheel.

[1:20:16] Andrew DeWolf: We should probably animate something for this.

[1:20:20] Jess McAnally: This is a problem! We can't hide!

[1:20:24] Andrew DeWolf: Now we can't hide it! Should we get a wheel?

[1:20:32] Jess McAnally: Maybe. Can't you just get a wheel online?

[1:20:36] Andrew DeWolf: You can. Yeah, I made a wheel online.

[1:20:40] Jess McAnally: I'm talking like a physical wheel, ordering it and doing it and actually spinning it.

[1:20:44] Andrew DeWolf: You gotta call Rich Evans and have him build you one.

[1:20:48] Jess McAnally: I am like one degree away now that I think about it. Drive over there to the great state of Milwaukee. Just ask Mike to ask Rich.

[1:21:00] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, here's the wheel, everybody! Any predictions on what it'll be?

[1:21:04] Brianna Jones: Christmas is around the corner, so I've got a few ideas. Maybe it's a Christmas movie. I don't know.

[1:21:12] Jess McAnally: Alright, Brie, you got a prediction? What do you think?

[1:21:16] Brianna Jones: It can't be anything. It no longer has to be a musical, right? Let me think here.

[1:21:24] Andrew DeWolf: She's typing like she's researching.

[1:21:28] Brianna Jones: Oh, is it a magazine? Is it an album? Can it please be the new Christmas movie with Lindsay Lohan on Netflix?

[1:21:40] Andrew DeWolf: Hot Frosty?

[1:21:48] Brianna Jones: But isn't Lindsay Lohan in Hot Frosty?

[1:21:52] Andrew DeWolf: No, they watch a different Lindsay Lohan Netflix Christmas movie and Lacey Chabert is like, she looks like a girl I went to high school with.

[1:22:00] Brianna Jones: It opens so many more issues.

[1:22:04] Andrew DeWolf: It's gonna be the new Jack Black movie.

[1:22:08] Brianna Jones: Oh, I thought it was gonna be Minecraft.

[1:22:12] Andrew DeWolf: It's not even the movie, it's just the trailer. Remember when Jack Black was in real movies?

[1:22:20] Brianna Jones: We watched that commercial at the theaters and the entire theater groaned at it.

[1:22:24] Andrew DeWolf: I was in the bathroom.

[1:22:32] Brianna Jones: I grew up hearing the How to Train Your Dragon trailer, because I'm like, why are we doing this?

[1:22:36] Andrew DeWolf: That trailer also played and it made me roll my eyes.

[1:22:40] Brianna Jones: I didn't have Snow White.

[1:22:44] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I didn't have Snow White.

[1:22:48] Brianna Jones: I was expecting Snow White because unlike Wicked, that is very colorful, but it looks like they used a ton of AI as their concept art, so it just kind of looks like a fake movie.

[1:23:04] Andrew DeWolf: It is colorful. Here we go!

[1:23:08] Brianna Jones: It's so magical and shiny.

[1:23:16] Andrew DeWolf: The sound makes you think there's a wheel.

[1:23:20] Brianna Jones: I've never seen a wheel like this.

[1:23:24] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, and it's landed on one of Liz's choices. The horror comedy Better Watch Out.

[1:23:28] Brianna Jones: You have tried to have me talk about this and watch this forever, and now I finally get to watch it. I hope it doesn't make me feel ill.

[1:23:40] Jess McAnally: I can't wait to show you my weird hyper fixation. Speaking of show points, thank you for listening! Please follow us on iTunes and Spotify at TheCheeseWheelPodcast. We're on Twitter at CheeseWheelCast, Patreon at MusicalsWithCheese. Instagram at CheeseWheelCast, YouTube page at MusicalsWithCheese.

[1:24:04] Andrew DeWolf: You know, if things go well for me in the next couple weeks, I just about promise that Brie can control that. Email me at musicaltheaterlives@gmail.com. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio.

[1:24:16] Brianna Jones: Brie, why don't you give us some wicked related ASMR for Juliet?

[1:24:20] Brianna Jones: Popular. We're gonna be popular.

[1:24:24] Andrew DeWolf: We just skipped that song. I'm discovering.

[1:24:28] Brianna Jones: Popular's good.

[1:24:32] Andrew DeWolf: It's like Cat Valentine on drugs.

[1:24:36] Brianna Jones: Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for, you know, saying that Wonderful is a great song.

[1:24:44] Andrew DeWolf: It's not a great song. It's a song that people go to the bathroom to.

[1:24:48] Brianna Jones: It's not a great song. It's a wonderful song.

[1:24:52] Andrew DeWolf: It's gonna be wonderful when Jeff Goldblum tap dances to it.

[1:24:56] Brianna Jones: And then Liza Minnelli's standing on the piano being like, wow, this is amazing.

[1:25:00] Andrew DeWolf: Jeff Goldblum can actually play piano.

[1:25:04] Brianna Jones: Yeah, he legit played jazz piano at the Funny or Die intern party end of semester intern party in like 2016. He has a jazz album. I think he might even have two at this point.

[1:25:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but it's not as good as H. Jon Benjamin's jazz album.

[1:25:20] Brianna Jones: It's better. Come on, dude. That one's not even that funny.

[1:25:24] Andrew DeWolf: That one's really funny. Play a little bit of it. Let the audience decide.

[1:25:32] Brianna Jones: I thought you were a Neil Cicerega fan. That's right up your alley.

[1:25:36] Andrew DeWolf: It is. It is funny, but it's only funny for like a while. It gets old. All right. We will see you next week for the Cheese Wheel podcast.

[1:25:44] Brianna Jones: Not the right key, but...

[1:25:58] Andrew DeWolf: It was beautiful. Better than all the rest of us.

[1:26:06] Brianna Jones: Yeah, I just screamed.