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[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:02] Andrew DeWolf: And I am Andrew DeWolf. And welcome to Boozicals with Cheese,

[0:23] Jesse McAnally: a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater and it's spooky.

[0:29] Andrew DeWolf: I see what you did there, Boozicals. But we're not talking about beer.

[0:35] Jesse McAnally: No, we're talking about ghosts and goblins and women being friends.

[0:41] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god, that's horrifying. Can you imagine?

[0:42] Jesse McAnally: The scariest things that could be imagined by man is women being friends.

[0:50] Andrew DeWolf: How are you doing today, my friend, on this extra spooky day?

[0:54] Jesse McAnally: You know, I got all my decorations up. I'm feeling good. I got a little cemetery outside.

[0:58] Andrew DeWolf: I got all my jack-o'-lanterns everywhere. You know, I got a new decoration. I finally have an inflatable, you know, one of the inflatable decorations for Halloween.

[1:10] Jesse McAnally: It's going to eat up your electric bill, but you're wrecking.

[1:12] Andrew DeWolf: It is. Well, I have to pay the electric bill, but...

[1:16] Jesse McAnally: Stupid. I did notice on your counter there a little vial of some purple jizz.

[1:23] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, this? The purple jizz?

[1:26] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[1:26] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, that's just my forever juice.

[1:29] Jesse McAnally: Your forever juice? What was that?

[1:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, you drink it and then, you know, you're good forever.

[1:34] Jesse McAnally: What, you want some?

[1:36] Andrew DeWolf: Am I allowed? Yeah, yeah, I'll take some.

[1:38] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, so...

[1:39] Andrew DeWolf: Are there any side effects to it?

[1:41] Jesse McAnally: None at all, as far as I'm aware.

[1:43] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, OK, that's fine.

[1:44] Jesse McAnally: It's just you have to live forever and, you know...

[1:47] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[1:48] Jesse McAnally: Well, I thought that was apparent.

[1:49] Andrew DeWolf: No, I was planning my suicide for next week.

[1:52] Jesse McAnally: Oh, well, you could still go through with it if you want.

[1:54] Andrew DeWolf: It's just it's going to leave you a little bit, uh...

[1:56] Jesse McAnally: You know, you're not going to heal that back up.

[1:58] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, no!

[2:02] Jesse McAnally: Well, I guess I'm stuck living with my thoughts forever.

[2:05] Jesse McAnally: This week, in case you haven't picked up what we're throwing down, we're talking about the dark musical comedy Death Becomes Her.

[2:22] Andrew DeWolf: So, Death Becomes Her is a musical directed by Christopher Gattelli,

[2:47] Jesse McAnally: with music and lyrics by Julia Madison and Noel Carey,

[2:50] Andrew DeWolf: with a book by Marco Pennet.

[2:52] Jesse McAnally: It is based on Death Becomes Her,

[2:54] Andrew DeWolf: a film written by Martin Donovan and David Koepp,

[2:57] Jesse McAnally: directed by Robert Zemeckis.

[2:59] Andrew DeWolf: I'm assuming, Jesse, you have not seen the film.

[3:02] Jesse McAnally: No, I haven't.

[3:03] Andrew DeWolf: Although I probably should.

[3:05] Jesse McAnally: I don't know.

[3:05] Andrew DeWolf: It seems like it's probably good.

[3:07] Jesse McAnally: Maybe it's not.

[3:08] Andrew DeWolf: I think the musical is significantly...

[3:10] Jesse McAnally: In the same way that Beetlejuice is better as a musical than it is a film,

[3:15] Andrew DeWolf: it just kind of...

[3:16] Jesse McAnally: The movie is really...

[3:17] Andrew DeWolf: Zemeckis is a good director, though.

[3:20] Jesse McAnally: You love the Polar Express?

[3:21] Andrew DeWolf: You like Welcome to Marwen?

[3:23] Jesse McAnally: What about here?

[3:24] Andrew DeWolf: I like the Polar Express enough.

[3:26] Jesse McAnally: Here, I have no idea what that is.

[3:28] Andrew DeWolf: They set up...

[3:29] Jesse McAnally: It's AI-generated Tom Hanks and Robin Wright

[3:32] Andrew DeWolf: living their life from childhood,

[3:34] Jesse McAnally: but you only see from one corner of a room.

[3:36] Andrew DeWolf: What is with Tom Hanks?

[3:38] Jesse McAnally: Why is he in all these?

[3:39] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[3:41] Jesse McAnally: In this film, it was Bruce Willis as the lead.

[3:44] Andrew DeWolf: Didn't he do Christmas Carol as well?

[3:46] Jesse McAnally: Or am I thinking, is that not Zemeckis?

[3:47] Andrew DeWolf: No, that's Jim Carrey.

[3:48] Jesse McAnally: And yes, Robert Zemeckis did that.

[3:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[3:50] Jesse McAnally: But it wasn't Tom Hanks.

[3:52] Andrew DeWolf: It should have been Tom Hanks.

[3:53] Jesse McAnally: Everything should have been Tom Hanks.

[3:55] Andrew DeWolf: Tom Hanks should have played every character in that as well.

[3:57] Jesse McAnally: He did Forrest Gump and Castaway and the Back to the Future movies.

[4:02] Andrew DeWolf: And the fun fact about this...

[4:04] Jesse McAnally: A lot of those are good.

[4:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yes.

[4:07] Jesse McAnally: This and Back to the Future ran at the same time.

[4:11] Andrew DeWolf: Like, there was a little overlap.

[4:12] Jesse McAnally: So Robert Zemeckis had two films that he directed have musicals on Broadway at the same time.

[4:17] Andrew DeWolf: Wow.

[4:18] Jesse McAnally: Do with that as you want.

[4:20] Andrew DeWolf: Real Zemeckis double feature you could do.

[4:22] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[4:24] Andrew DeWolf: The musical had its premiere and began performances at Broadway's Lunt-Fontaine Theatre on October 23rd of 2024

[4:32] Jesse McAnally: with an official opening scheduled to November 21st.

[4:34] Andrew DeWolf: It played its final Broadway performance on June 28th, 2026

[4:38] Jesse McAnally: after 27 previews and 666 regular performances.

[4:42] Andrew DeWolf: What a spooky number!

[4:46] Jesse McAnally: Deadline Hollywood wrote that the musical production improved in every way over the 1992 film

[4:50] Andrew DeWolf: in which Madison and Kariev concocted a knock-em-dead collection of killer songs

[4:55] Jesse McAnally: at send-up show tune convention while celebrating each and every one with love and care.

[5:01] Andrew DeWolf: The plot of Death Becomes Her.

[5:03] Jesse McAnally: And buckle up tight, bitch, because this is a long one.

[5:06] Andrew DeWolf: Madeline Ashton is the most beautiful actress, just ask her, to ever grace the stage and screen.

[5:12] Jesse McAnally: Helen Sharp is the long-suffering author, just ask her, who lives in the shadow.

[5:17] Andrew DeWolf: They have always been the best of frenemies, dot, dot, dot, until Madeline steals Helen's fiancé away.

[5:22] Jesse McAnally: As Helen plots revenge and Madeline clings to her rapidly fading star,

[5:26] Andrew DeWolf: the whole world is suddenly turned upside down by Viola Van Horn,

[5:31] Jesse McAnally: a mysterious woman with a secret that's to die for.

[5:36] Andrew DeWolf: So what'd you think, Jesse?

[5:37] Jesse McAnally: I think it's very fun.

[5:40] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know if this is going to have much staying power.

[5:43] Jesse McAnally: I'm not sure if the songs are quite strong enough,

[5:46] Andrew DeWolf: but there's definitely some good numbers in there.

[5:48] Jesse McAnally: It's got high highs, that's the thing.

[5:50] Andrew DeWolf: It does.

[5:51] Jesse McAnally: I saw this on Broadway last year, and it was in that same trip where I saw Oh Mary,

[6:00] Andrew DeWolf: and I liked it a lot better than Oh Mary.

[6:03] Jesse McAnally: I had a lot more fun at this, and I saw it with Jen Simard and Megan Hilty,

[6:09] Andrew DeWolf: who were the big stars with it.

[6:12] Jesse McAnally: Do you remember Jen Simard?

[6:13] Andrew DeWolf: She photobombed us when we did our BroadwayCon panel.

[6:17] Jesse McAnally: Good lord, I wish I remembered.

[6:20] Andrew DeWolf: You set up her entire panel and everything, and you have no memory of this?

[6:25] Jesse McAnally: No, I'm terrible.

[6:28] Andrew DeWolf: She was kind of like, not an ensemble member, but a bit player in company,

[6:32] Jesse McAnally: but now she's kind of grown into a star of her own, and she can sell seats on her own name,

[6:37] Andrew DeWolf: and it's great.

[6:38] Jesse McAnally: I love how theater can work that way.

[6:39] Andrew DeWolf: And I met her.

[6:41] Jesse McAnally: And I don't even remember it.

[6:43] Andrew DeWolf: No, Jesse, the important thing is, she met you.

[6:47] Jesse McAnally: You know what?

[6:48] Andrew DeWolf: She's going to be talking about that for a long time, I bet.

[6:54] Jesse McAnally: But no, I thought this was a very visually striking theater production.

[6:59] Andrew DeWolf: I will be seeing the tour in a few weeks,

[7:02] Jesse McAnally: and I'm going to be interested to see how they downsized it to be able to fit,

[7:05] Andrew DeWolf: because it is a visual spectacle.

[7:09] Jesse McAnally: And I think the songs work pretty well.

[7:13] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's my third favorite musical score of the 2020s.

[7:18] Jesse McAnally: What are your other two?

[7:19] Andrew DeWolf: Strange Loop and Suffs.

[7:21] Jesse McAnally: Okay, well, yeah, okay.

[7:23] Andrew DeWolf: Strange Loop is going to be really top to top.

[7:25] Jesse McAnally: It really is.

[7:26] Andrew DeWolf: I'd love to see what they do for the touring act,

[7:28] Jesse McAnally: and I probably will go see it if it comes near me, which I'm sure.

[7:32] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that is a selling point enough that Andrew's going to pay money to go see this live.

[7:37] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think it's good enough.

[7:38] Andrew DeWolf: I think I enjoyed it enough.

[7:41] Jesse McAnally: It's one of those where it's not that deep,

[7:44] Andrew DeWolf: so there's not a lot to think about after the fact,

[7:48] Jesse McAnally: but it's kind of just like, yeah, I had a good time.

[7:52] Andrew DeWolf: I think the tone management is the most impressive thing about this musical,

[7:55] Jesse McAnally: because I think that the Robert Zemeckis film has a big tone problem.

[8:01] Andrew DeWolf: It is unpleasant to watch.

[8:03] Jesse McAnally: I watched when I was very young.

[8:04] Andrew DeWolf: At first, it was on ABC Family of all things,

[8:08] Jesse McAnally: and you see the commercials, and it's like,

[8:11] Andrew DeWolf: Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep in this wacky comedy.

[8:15] Jesse McAnally: And then you watch, and it's like really kind of nasty feeling,

[8:19] Andrew DeWolf: and like that there is not really funny jokes.

[8:22] Jesse McAnally: It's more just like this tension between these two ladies and the Bruce Willis character,

[8:28] Andrew DeWolf: and it's taken a little more earnestly.

[8:31] Jesse McAnally: And so these scenes where they're shooting full-on holes through each other,

[8:35] Andrew DeWolf: it feels gross and not pleasant, and the ending just kind of rings hollow.

[8:39] Jesse McAnally: I see.

[8:41] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas this, everything is heightened and taken to the most ridiculous comedic conceit.

[8:47] Jesse McAnally: It probably helps that it's like when you open with,

[8:51] Andrew DeWolf: I guess I don't open with further gaze, but it's pretty close to the beginning.

[8:54] Jesse McAnally: It might as well be the opening.

[8:57] Andrew DeWolf: When you open with something like that, it's like,

[8:59] Jesse McAnally: yeah, no, this is like, everything's like way up.

[9:02] Andrew DeWolf: Like, you know, this is a goof.

[9:06] Jesse McAnally: And it makes those wackier, darker things kind of,

[9:11] Andrew DeWolf: it makes you well aware of what it's trying to be like.

[9:15] Jesse McAnally: And there's, I think so many other composers would have messed this up.

[9:21] Andrew DeWolf: I only, Joe Iconis, do you remember who that is?

[9:25] Jesse McAnally: I recognize the name.

[9:27] Andrew DeWolf: You're going to have to run it by me.

[9:29] Jesse McAnally: He did the music score to, what was that show?

[9:34] Andrew DeWolf: Be More Chill.

[9:35] Jesse McAnally: That's one of our early, early episodes.

[9:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yes, okay.

[9:39] Jesse McAnally: And he, when we went to BroadwayCon, he was releasing an album called Album,

[9:44] Andrew DeWolf: which is all these trunk songs that he's had for years.

[9:48] Jesse McAnally: It is 54 tracks long, a shit ton of albums, a shit ton of just random songs,

[9:54] Andrew DeWolf: including just, just not as a coincidence,

[9:58] Jesse McAnally: songs written for film adaptations of musicals that have suddenly exist now.

[10:06] Andrew DeWolf: Like Death Becomes Her, he has a song for that.

[10:09] Jesse McAnally: A song for Lydia for Beetlejuice, and a song for a bunch of these kind of,

[10:14] Andrew DeWolf: like Psycho, he did a Michael Myers song.

[10:17] Jesse McAnally: It seems there was a period in Joe Iconis's life

[10:20] Andrew DeWolf: where he was pitching himself to be the composer for these movie adaptations of musicals.

[10:24] Jesse McAnally: And then he had these songs, and he wanted to release them.

[10:27] Andrew DeWolf: And I only bring this up because he did one on,

[10:30] Jesse McAnally: on, for Helen Sharp in Death Becomes Her,

[10:34] Andrew DeWolf: and it matches the tone of the movie quite a bit.

[10:38] Jesse McAnally: And I'm going to play a little bit of it for you, if you don't mind.

[10:42] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[10:42] Jesse McAnally: Because I think it kind of shows what a tonal mess this could have been.

[10:46] Andrew DeWolf: But as I look out at your faces, I can tell

[10:57] Jesse McAnally: you'd rather be with her. I know that look real well.

[11:04] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, so I'm gonna sing about how you should leave and go be with that person who's greater.

[11:11] Jesse McAnally: I'm gonna sing about how I'll stay here, I'll perform for what I roll in waiter.

[11:20] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna sing to the anger and jealousy, illness and horror just numbs me.

[11:27] Jesse McAnally: And you and Madeline may think that I'm ugly, but I think that bitterness becomes me.

[11:27] Andrew DeWolf: Bitterness becomes me.

[11:41] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. And I mean, I could see a show like this working.

[11:47] Andrew DeWolf: It's just not fitting what this musical should be.

[11:50] Jesse McAnally: I think it would work better for maybe a different show, honestly.

[11:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and I felt the same way about his song for Lydia.

[11:58] Jesse McAnally: Um, it just shows that even a composer that I really like, I really like Joe Iconis.

[12:03] Andrew DeWolf: I think he's very, very talented.

[12:05] Jesse McAnally: I don't think this is an easy thing to pull off what they pulled off here.

[12:10] Andrew DeWolf: So I know we're talking in the way of like,

[12:13] Jesse McAnally: I don't know if this will have staying power.

[12:14] Andrew DeWolf: I think it does.

[12:16] Jesse McAnally: Because A, what other musical is going to have a mostly female bass,

[12:21] Andrew DeWolf: like as far as the leads go?

[12:22] Jesse McAnally: And this is going to do killer in community theaters.

[12:25] Andrew DeWolf: I know like there's a lot of stunt work that probably needs to be done.

[12:29] Jesse McAnally: And the tone is so perfectly managed, despite being this dark and this kind of cynical.

[12:36] Andrew DeWolf: And they are a mile a minute jokes.

[12:39] Jesse McAnally: And I want to say 85% of them knock it out of the park.

[12:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because it's a dark comedy, but they kind of cut the darkness a lot.

[12:48] Jesse McAnally: Like considering the subject matter, it's just jokes.

[12:52] Andrew DeWolf: It's like constant jokes.

[12:54] Jesse McAnally: And I appreciated it.

[12:56] Andrew DeWolf: But it doesn't remove some pathos to it.

[13:01] Jesse McAnally: There is some emotional core there, but not much.

[13:04] Andrew DeWolf: I think they mostly hit you with it like right at the end.

[13:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[13:08] Andrew DeWolf: And that's when it's like, oh, yeah, no, that's going to kind of suck, isn't it?

[13:14] Jesse McAnally: Could you describe the plot for anyone that might not know what Death Becomes Her is?

[13:19] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[13:19] Jesse McAnally: So, I mean, you already hit the major points with your little summary there.

[13:23] Andrew DeWolf: The two lead women are fighting with each other over the same man.

[13:30] Jesse McAnally: Basically, the author was it Helen?

[13:34] Andrew DeWolf: Is that Helen?

[13:35] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[13:36] Andrew DeWolf: Helen kind of disappears after I believe Madeline and Ernest get married.

[13:41] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[13:42] Andrew DeWolf: Which Ernest is the guy.

[13:44] Jesse McAnally: And he's a plastic surgeon.

[13:46] Andrew DeWolf: She kind of reappears at a certain point.

[13:49] Jesse McAnally: And she is looking much more beautiful than Madeline is at this point.

[13:57] Andrew DeWolf: And confident, which is another part of it.

[13:59] Jesse McAnally: Exactly.

[14:00] Andrew DeWolf: And you kind of find out eventually that, well, actually, no.

[14:05] Jesse McAnally: Well, I have to do this in order because you don't.

[14:06] Jesse McAnally: Find that out right away. They're at this party. Some guy invites Madeline to meet with Viola, who is this new person in town. Got these new remedies. She's not a plastic surgeon, but she's promising to make you youthful and whatever. And Madeline is, of course, tempted by that and goes there. And she drinks this potion that Viola gives her, which we find out makes you live forever, but also kills you, basically. Well, the thing is, the warning is basically, take care of your body because you're stuck with it forever. So I think they're alive when they take the potion and they are going to live their lives normally. But then these women kill each other and they're stuck as zombie women with these dead bodies that they have to carry around living forever.

I guess I pictured it as like vampire juice, almost. It just kills you. You die when you drink it, but you are now undead and you don't age anymore. So you technically can be beautiful forever, but any injuries you sustain, anything, you're just fucked. But then you get this scene where they just try killing each other. And it's great. That is the peak of the move. The show.

[15:37] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, absolutely. There's also a bunch of stuff with the plastic surgeon husband gets a bunch of songs, but no one likes him. But they do like that's like the really the biggest thing is I don't get what anyone sees in Ernest. Why are they fighting over this man? He's such a like scum bag to he like literally he leaves Helen for Madeline because Madeline is more beautiful than Helen is. And famous and has like all these movies and stuff. But then Helen comes back and now she's more beautiful. He's like planning to leave for her now. It's literally just like he's just like, I was more beautiful. I'll just go with him. But you got hot. She got the titties. She says bongo drums. I need to be with her. It's so fucking he's such a like spineless little weasel, though he kind of he kind of gets a spine near the near the end, basically.

[16:35] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it was really interesting to have Bruce Willis play that role because he is still the same spineless little weasel in that. And that's just very against type for Bruce Willis. I think it's one of his better performances. He has to actually act to pull that one off.

[16:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I mean, not saying I know he's dealing with something right now, but he was not always bringing 100% effort to every role. Tonally, I think Beetlejuice is like the easy comparison for a musical like this.

[17:04] Jesse McAnally: Well, of course, it's the same sort of genre. It's like sort of horror-esque like it's in it's it has those themes, but it doesn't really commit to the horror aspect. And then it's kind of more fun just with those like that backdrop. I think this kind of commits more than Beetlejuice does, because, you know, the gore and horror is played for laughs. But in Beetlejuice, it is cartoony where here it's like, yeah, there is a hole in her body and she is beheaded and all these other things.

[17:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, they do it better for sure. This is very popular with women, which is very strange, not strange, but like for I would say this is closer to straight up horror than most horror comedies, even Evil Dead. I think this is kind of more in like taking the horror aspects for real. Evil Dead is just like a gore thing. They just like to spray blood on the stage. But like, there's really not much that's like. Yeah, I don't know. Like this one has, I think, as far as like women liking it. I mean, it's about the women relationships, I guess. I don't know how well written these female characters are compared to most. I'm not really a judge of that.

[18:21] Jesse McAnally: I mean, not even I think they're written fine. Like these are not like world changing characters, but I think the actors are what really bring it. Like those are very I hate to use the term, but diva.

[18:31] Andrew DeWolf: I was going to say diva, too. They're both that, too. It's like it's they're competing. And who do you think is a more compelling actor? Because really, when we talk about this show, at least in its current form, I know there is currently a tour with different actors and there was lovely human beings that stepped into the role of Madeline after Megan Hilty stepped out. But really, the talk of the show was Megan Hilty and Jen Samard. Who did you like better? Who are you more compelled by as far as those performances go?

[19:03] Jesse McAnally: I think I have to say Madeline. So I asked that because I saw this with Miranda and I didn't agree with her statement, but it made me think she left thinking I think Jen Samard was just kind of phoning it in where Megan Hilty really, really has to perform the shit out of every one of her songs.

[19:23] Andrew DeWolf: Which one is which? Jen Samard is Helen. OK, so where Megan Hilty has maybe your performance. I don't know. I didn't I didn't I didn't get that vibe from what I saw. But I but I can see the because everything Jen Samard does is so dry and so undersold where Megan Hilty is like these very dramatic and over-pronunciated. And I am going to sing these really long, really difficult songs toward the audience. And you will love me. I think that they're both bringing a different thing, but I feel like the Madeline character sets the tone of the show better because it's she has that very over-the-top diva vibe to it, you know, and I feel like that's that's the show for me.

[20:12] Jesse McAnally: Did you ever feel like the comedy took you out of the actual narrative where you're like, this is just a goof? I don't care what happens.

[20:16] Andrew DeWolf: No, I don't. I don't think so. I don't think so. No, because at a certain point, it's it's like you already kind of know what's going to happen. You just want to see how it plays out, because like once they once they take the potion for me, it was like, well, clearly what's going to happen is they're going to fuck it all up and they're going to be stuck with it. And you just kind of want to see how that ends up like. I mean, I don't give you much context going into this. Like when we started it and let's say you're at minute 20, where did you think the story was going?

[20:46] Jesse McAnally: I assumed that there was going to be some sort of revenge arc from Helen, but that didn't fully play out.

[20:53] Andrew DeWolf: Not really. It was more internalized revenge of I'm going to steal your man pretty much. And honestly, I think what surprised me the most in especially the act, too, is how much play Ernest actually got. I was expecting him not to get that much, but he kind of he gets like his own. He almost becomes the lead.

[21:12] Jesse McAnally: He does. He has if anything, he's the only character that has like a true arc where he like decides that he's done with these women. I mean, the women also decide we're done with Ernest because we don't need him, except we only need him for his plastic surgery skills at this point.

[21:31] Andrew DeWolf: True. They do. But they're still like they're still chasing him, just not for the love aspect. But they're still like we need him around. And then he he just he's like, nah, fuck this. Um, I like Ernest as a character. I feel like he'd be horrendous to know in real life. I seems fucking miserable. I don't know. He's a plastic surgeon, though. So it's like good money. I feel like that's a he thinks he fits the stereotype in my head. But I would imagine a plastic surgeon is like apologies to all the plastic surgeons out there listening.

[22:12] Jesse McAnally: Oh, we know they're out there. We know you listen to musicals with cheese.

[22:20] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I told you that my friend Frank met someone at a bachelor party that was a fan of our show.

[22:25] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you did. And I'm surprised that anyone's a fan of our show. I feel like you wouldn't run into one of those. But yeah, no.

[22:35] Andrew DeWolf: How did that come up is my is my real question.

[22:37] Jesse McAnally: Um, great question. I did ask that. He said they were talking about Oh, God, letterbox. And they will. I see. And the person told Frank, Hey, I listened to this podcast where they try to figure out a letterbox ratings. And he's like, Wait a minute. What podcast is that? We're known for something that's crazy.

[23:02] Andrew DeWolf: The letterbox game has somehow become one of the more popular that in the cheese ratings will live beyond us forever.

[23:08] Jesse McAnally: That's fine. You know, we got to be known for something. Yeah. Kind of like, I mean, will we be like the death becomes her girls where we discover we don't need no other person. We're stuck together forever. It's us.

[23:23] Andrew DeWolf: Well, we keep trying to bring new people in here. So I don't know if that'll ever happen.

[23:28] Jesse McAnally: We keep bringing a third and they keep dying.

[23:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we keep having to sacrifice them.

[23:34] Jesse McAnally: In the end, it is just us, isn't it? You're my person. I love you.

[23:41] Andrew DeWolf: I love that because that's such a stupid line.

[23:46] Jesse McAnally: And it repeats every time.

[23:48] Andrew DeWolf: It feels so like hollow to I don't know.

[23:52] Jesse McAnally: What do you mean?

[23:53] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. You're my person. I love you. What the hell is that? Is that something people say?

[23:59] Jesse McAnally: I and I just like so it's like, I love you. I love you. You're my person. That's right, dear. Like the actual lyrics are just like, yep.

[24:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's right. And I like that was a recurring theme between Ernest and Helen, then Ernest and Madeline. Then it finally builds to Madeline and Helen singing that to each other. It turns out they were the only people bad enough to be with each other. Um, let's go into a mid show. Then we'll talk about some of these songs.

[24:56] ♪ Musical number: "Anger" — performed by Performer ♪

[25:00] ♪ Musical number: "Pain" — performed by Performer ♪

[25:01] ♪ Musical number: "Gluttony" — performed by Performer ♪

[25:02] ♪ Musical number: "Seven Deadly Sins" — performed by Performer ♪

[25:04] ♪ Musical number: "Death Becomes Her" — performed by Performer ♪

[25:10] This film has not yet been rated. Starts Friday, July 31st at theaters everywhere.

[25:17] They're coming. They're here! The monster marshmallows!

[25:21] Andrew DeWolf: Marshmallows?

[25:23] Jesse McAnally: And Calchocula. Now all the monster cities have bigger monster-sized marshmallows. Calchocula has enormous chocolatey marshmallows. It's a delicious part of this nutritious breakfast.

[25:35] Andrew DeWolf: No monster marshmallows are here.

[25:37] Jesse McAnally: The monster marshmallows are here. They're everywhere.

[25:46] Andrew DeWolf: Witches and owls make the scene when Charlie Brown and his Peanuts playmates go on a haunting spree in a happy Halloween special that's filled with delightful heartwarming adventures from their wonderful cartoon world. It's The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown.

[25:59] Jesse McAnally: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a shillet of you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donation by our donors over at Patreon. And we got some new patrons today. Andrew, tell us a little bit about it.

[26:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, sure. Patreon is where you can go if you'd like to support the show, obviously. And also, we have some extra content over there.

[26:38] Jesse McAnally: What are you guys covering on this second podcast?

[26:41] Andrew DeWolf: We just did an episode on Camp Miasma, the Jane Shorenberg film follow-up to I Saw the TV Glow. It is great. And I was not a big fan of I Saw the TV Glow, and I loved Camp Miasma. Not to spoil the discussion, but we had a really good chat about that.

[27:00] Jesse McAnally: I feel like we were also talking about that.

[27:02] Andrew DeWolf: We were talking about Nebula.com. We had a whole discussion about someone's got to get cancelled on Nebula.com. And then the next week, someone got cancelled from Nebula.

[27:11] Jesse McAnally: Who's currently supporting us on Patreon?

[27:14] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I'm glad you asked. Our current patrons are Leighton A., Ewan Cassidy, Monica Theroux, Brent Black, John Finnells, Russ Walker, Musical Halogen, AC. Nothing is certain except Beth and Taxis, Thesbian, Roof Geese, EG Francis, EJ Francis, Chris Marcotte, Keeji Marie Anastasio, RJ Noriega, Joe, Toriana Frazier, Sammy, The Adequate Amount, Jacobson, Villainous Miss, The Omega Geek, Maddie Worgel, Alisa Erdman, Aurora Marasso, Mara, Puffyboy, Anna B., Goalplay to Kiki Mora, Aria Ardy, Carl Baldasso, JRL Studios, BT Fliberty Jigot, Caleb Bailey, Devin Willis, Sophia Hurtado, Jessica, PantsPants, Casey Denning, Liz Montemurro, Jose Gonzalez, Multinight, and ESS, spelled E-S-S. They all give us a lot of financial support that helps us to keep the lights on here at the Cheese Wheel and musicals with cheese.

[28:10] Jesse McAnally: Holy shit. ESS is trying to steal your name, dude.

[28:13] Andrew DeWolf: I know. They got more than half of it. S without J. It's just without a J.

[28:20] Jess McAnally: Come join us over at Patreon if you want those. And all these. Let's get back to the show.

[28:27] Andrew DeWolf: A Frankish night in Whoville and who do we blame for this pinch? The ceaseless yowling, always prowling, 100% green, ghoulish cringe. Halloween is cringe night and everything's Friday on Cartoon Network.

[28:58] Jess McAnally: Ray Bradbury's Something Wicked This Way Comes, rated PG. Arrives Friday, April 29th at theaters everywhere.

[29:10] Andrew DeWolf: Once upon a time, it was one monster per movie. Those were the good old days.

[29:17] Jess McAnally: We're the Monster Squad. Only one way to kill a werewolf.

[29:32] Andrew DeWolf: The Monster Squad, rated PG-13.

[29:47] Jess McAnally: It's time for everyone's favorite part of the show, where we have to go head-to-head to guess whether these real-life Letterboxd reviews are one stars or five stars. It's time for Previews. It's time for Previews. It's time for Previews. It's time for Previews.

[30:13] Jess McAnally: All right, Andrew, are you ready?

[30:15] Andrew DeWolf: I am ready. Is this for the movie, I assume?

[30:17] Jess McAnally: This is for the movie. And we'll go quickly. This will not be a very long interlude.

[30:24] Andrew DeWolf: Their girlfriends.

[30:25] Jess McAnally: It depends what part of the... Well, I guess I haven't seen the movie. It depends what part of the show. I'm going to go with five, though, because I feel like that's an important part.

[30:34] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct!

[30:36] Jess McAnally: Okay, okay. I feel like that was not a hard one. That was an easy one.

[30:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm not going to be a monster here. Okay, full disclosure, I did not make the docs this week. I did not have time, so Liz made them. So these are just as big a surprise for me. So maybe I'm not being as much of a dick with these.

[30:54] Jess McAnally: Okay, okay. Give me some easy ones. I like winning.

[30:59] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know how to explain this was made for gay people. I don't know how to explain it, but this was made for gay people.

[31:06] Jess McAnally: It was made for the gays?

[31:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[31:08] Jess McAnally: I have to give it a five just for the thing there. Just for the little...

[31:12] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct!

[31:15] Jess McAnally: I would have been a little mad if it wasn't, but I didn't really guess. I just wanted to give it a five because it did it for the gays.

[31:21] Andrew DeWolf: It is for the gays. They're like the 10-year-olds at Sephora buying retinol and collagen creams.

[31:29] Jess McAnally: Jeez, I'm trying to figure out if this is a positive or negative.

[31:32] Andrew DeWolf: I'm going to say five again, honestly.

[31:36] Jess McAnally: That is correct!

[31:38] Andrew DeWolf: I'm on a streak here. That was tough because I thought you were going to throw a one in eventually, but I was... I don't know.

[31:46] Jess McAnally: You never know with me. Do you think Helen and Madeline explored each other's bodies?

[31:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. I mean, clearly, they found a second hole.

[31:56] Jess McAnally: A third hole?

[31:57] Andrew DeWolf: For a fourth hole. How many holes?

[31:59] Jess McAnally: So we got two in our ears, two in our nostrils, two in our eyes, one mouth, an asshole.

[32:06] Andrew DeWolf: Seventh hole?

[32:07] Jess McAnally: Yeah, seventh hole. We did it, guys. And you can have sex at any of them.

[32:13] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, jeez. One?

[32:14] Jess McAnally: That is correct!

[32:17] Andrew DeWolf: I'm on a hot streak. This is a hot streak.

[32:19] Jess McAnally: Don't fuck it up, baby.

[32:20] Andrew DeWolf: Give me one more. Give me one more.

[32:22] Jess McAnally: So violently 90s.

[32:24] Andrew DeWolf: The word violently is doing a lot of work there.

[32:27] Jess McAnally: It's a violent movie, though.

[32:28] Andrew DeWolf: It is. Okay, I'm going to say five.

[32:32] Jess McAnally: That was a one. You were wrong. You ended your streak.

[32:36] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I basically lost right there.

[32:39] Jess McAnally: Yeah, we're just calling you a loser there. That's it. You're done.

[32:42] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck me, because I didn't get literally every single one of them correct.

[32:45] Jess McAnally: I mean, when you're trying to beat your own record like that, if you don't get every single one of them correct, you're losing.

[32:50] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's true. It's true. You actually are right.

[32:53] Jess McAnally: Do you want to talk about some of these songs?

[32:55] Andrew DeWolf: I do. I have things to say.

[32:58] Jess McAnally: I have something to say.

[33:00] Andrew DeWolf: What do you think of, like, the opening opening? If you want perfection.

[33:03] Jess McAnally: You see, it's what you get.

[33:07] Andrew DeWolf: If you want perfection, take a sip and drink it in.

[33:14] Jess McAnally: Kill your old complexion.

[33:24] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like it's very overshadowed by what comes after, but I think it's a good way to set the kind of what's to come. Because if you don't have this here, you wouldn't really know that this is going to be this kind of weird horror comedy.

[33:42] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[33:43] Andrew DeWolf: Until much, much later. And it might make that feel like a bit of tonal whiplash. But this kind of helps alleviate that a little bit. And I like setting up Viola early because in the film, she just kind of appears when she appears in the narrative. And I like using her as like this Greek chorus narrator.

[34:02] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[34:03] Andrew DeWolf: And aesthetically, it just looks cool and feels like a lot brighter and more neon-y kind of style. This is like a different kind of spookier style than the rest of the gonzo jazzy goofballs for the rest of it. I don't know. That is really my big thought here.

[34:22] Jess McAnally: But then you will also love For the Gaze.

[34:52] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like everyone must love this one.

[35:04] Jess McAnally: Is this not the hit of the fucking show?

[35:07] Andrew DeWolf: It surprisingly isn't. But the hit from the show is shocking, in my opinion.

[35:12] Jess McAnally: Really?

[35:12] Andrew DeWolf: Because to me, this is the hit.

[35:14] Jess McAnally: I know it's early. And it's not like one of those things where there's one good song at the beginning and then it's all downhill. No.

[35:21] Andrew DeWolf: But there's kind of one good song at the beginning, and it's like the high point. So maybe it's all downhill.

[35:30] Jess McAnally: It's not like steeply downhill. It's just like a little bit downhill. I think this is like the most musical theater-y song. And it's like, please like us. It's clearly a pandering song. It's like, this is for the theater crowd.

[35:43] Andrew DeWolf: This is for the gaze.

[35:49] Jess McAnally: For the gaze.

[35:51] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's good.

[35:54] Jess McAnally: You're on an edgy streak today.

[35:57] Andrew DeWolf: Am I?

[35:58] Jess McAnally: A little bit.

[36:00] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's great. It really does sell with a crowd. Like, we're whooping and we're hollering. And then it's like, all right, let's settle in for this actual musical. I mean, it's kind of like The Wizard of Oz, where the best song is somewhere over the rainbow, but you still get the rest of the movie, The Wizard of Oz.

[36:14] Jess McAnally: Yeah, true. The biggest hit, and I don't want to talk about the song, but like the That Was Then, This Is Now. That song, it starts really jazzy, a little bit with like this like weird kind of clarinet, saxophone kind of mix-y sound that none of the rest of the musical sounds like. It sounds like really kind of noir-y and interesting. And part of me just like, man, I wish the rest of the musical sounded like that.

[36:41] Andrew DeWolf: Like, not a fault. It's just I really like that sound and nothing else sounds like that.

[36:46] Jess McAnally: Yeah, you're kind of right. I feel like they kind of go back to the more like traditional Broadway feel.

[36:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And speaking of that, the biggest hit of this musical, the one that became the memes, the one that was used in like all the tickety-talks and the marketing is Tell Me Ernest.

[37:02] Jess McAnally: Both versions.

[37:04] Andrew DeWolf: The straight-to-DVD.

[37:05] Jess McAnally: No, really, Ernest? How often have you watched me?

[37:08] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, sporadically.

[37:10] Jess McAnally: What?

[37:10] Andrew DeWolf: I really like the one where you were fighting with the sword.

[37:12] Jess McAnally: Oh, thrust. That was her first Razzie award. You know, I get all my own stuff. I only injured all of my co-stars once. Now foreplay foreplay is one of my specialties.

[37:24] Andrew DeWolf: We need another bottle.

[37:26] Jess McAnally: I must be boring, isn't it?

[37:31] Andrew DeWolf: I'm just so thrilled that you both are here.

[37:35] Jess McAnally: I don't know.

[37:36] Andrew DeWolf: It's fine.

[37:37] Jess McAnally: This is the big one?

[37:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this is the one that. What's your what's your thought? Like, is this was this really stand out for you?

[37:44] Jess McAnally: I think it's like a fun character piece where all three of them get to do something. Like, I think that it really shows Megan Hilty as far as like the comedic. It's got some visual gags, like when she takes off her coat and reveals an outfit that matches the couch and she blends right in. It has kind of all the things and it's got like this returning thing of like, Tell Me Ernest, da da da da da punchline. Tell Me Ernest, da da da da da punchline. So like it does kind of have the joke conceit and it's very editable into those TikTok pieces.

[38:18] Andrew DeWolf: OK, you're right on that front. I think as far as like, do I like it that much? There's better.

[38:24] Jess McAnally: There's better songs.

[38:25] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, I like both versions. I think I kind of prefer Helen's version, and it may just because Jennifer Samard slaps her boobs and it's really funny. The thing is, I can just tell that was probably something she improvised at some point. And now every other actress that plays that has to find a new variation depending on their chest size.

[38:51] Jess McAnally: Or you can only cast a certain size woman.

[38:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I like that song, but it's not like my favorite. As far as like the one I think is really the standout, like, holy shit, look at that performer. It is amazing. It's Falling Apart, which is Madeline's big song in act one.

[39:34] Jess McAnally: Now, this song was just like, oh, shit, that is a star.

[39:50] Andrew DeWolf: And she is. It's like the one time there's no set design. There's nothing going on on stage. Spotlight and Megan Hilty on that stage losing her shit.

[40:00] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it's very, what's the show they specifically reference?

[40:04] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my goodness.

[40:05] Jess McAnally: Sunset Boulevard.

[40:06] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yes.

[40:10] Jess McAnally: No, very, very good.

[40:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and it breaks down into a crazy monologue where she's like, I have to sleep upside down like a bat to avoid gravity pushing on my face every night.

[40:25] Jess McAnally: The amount of work you have to do to not get old.

[40:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[40:29] Jess McAnally: And then it's then you still get old anyways.

[40:31] Andrew DeWolf: Well, not not if you take the don't dive, don't dive drink.

[40:35] Jess McAnally: That's true. And then the last song that we really have to talk about is The Plan, Ernest's big number. What do I do? The two of them are turning blue and their makeup won't stick. So I guess I have to seal that in.

[40:48] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God, Ernest. What a mess.

[40:51] Jess McAnally: Oh, God. If this gets in the press, you'll be canceled. You'll be shamed. You'll watch your life go up in flames. You'll die and desecrate the family name.

[41:00] Andrew DeWolf: No, you're Ernest Menville. Damn it. Search into the stars. If someone needs a nose, they come to you. You fix faces and butts. You sew lacerations and cuts. So what's the difference with a big old hole that Jesus Christ you can see right through?

[41:18] Jess McAnally: Clay.

[41:18] Andrew DeWolf: You need clay.

[41:19] Jess McAnally: You need clay to build a hole in the lady.

[41:21] Andrew DeWolf: That's a good idea.

[41:22] Jess McAnally: Well, thank you, friend. You ain't so bad yourself.

[41:26] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, OK, next step. What do we got?

[41:30] Jess McAnally: We got I feel like I don't have a ton to say about the song, but I like the kind of set work they did.

[41:38] Andrew DeWolf: You like puppets. You're a man who loves this puppet puppets.

[41:39] Jess McAnally: It reminded me of Evil Dead. I was like, I'm picturing all the people off stage with the.

[41:47] Andrew DeWolf: How are they doing that?

[41:48] Jess McAnally: And I thought it was I thought that was really fun. Can you describe what's happening on the stage for folks that might not be able to get it from just the audio clip?

[41:55] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, of course. They have a he's in like a science, like a laboratory. I think it's like his study.

[42:00] Jess McAnally: His study.

[42:04] Andrew DeWolf: I don't even know where he's at. There's just a there's a bunch of stuff that the one that stands out to me. It was like a globe out there. And then there's like other just other things that can kind of split in half and look like they have mouths and they're singing along with the song. That's the best way I can do.

[42:21] Andrew DeWolf: And it's because he just gets more drunk and then he starts putting spray paint in his mouth, and he just becomes more and more of a mess of himself. It's his plan, you know? And what was his plan? Oh, it's just spray paint and duct tape together. Literally, it was like the laziest shit. And then the funny part to me is that he does that, and then they're still like, we need him. He's the only one who can make us look good.

[42:48] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I also really like the stage work and how it like there are there is texture above him, like Ernest Ernest Melville, the king. And then as he gets more drunk, it matches like the words coming out of his mouth to be like the gibberish words. I also think it is so many good gags, so many good gags.

[43:09] Andrew DeWolf: But the gags are good, but it also has some great proper lyrics. Like, you gave Cher the sheik she has today. You fix boobies and necks and graft the fat and they write the check. So who says you can't Bob Ross a little zombie decay? That is good. That is you don't catch stuff like that at one first listen.

[43:30] Jess McAnally: No, because a he's kind of got a slur a little bit.

[43:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, speech impediment slightly from the alcohol. All right. The actual plan, the plan that builds up to is tools, booze, clay, fill in the hole in the lady, paint the paint, paint the corpse. That's the plan. I'm surprised they didn't perform this one at the Tony's because it really is, in my opinion, the funniest number. It is the only counter as far as for the gays outside.

[44:05] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Outside of that, this is probably the only competition it has. You have to perform something that uses more of the cast, though, I feel.

[44:11] Andrew DeWolf: And well, especially, especially earnest only. That's that's what we're going to showcase at the dare. I remind you, your beloved penny in my pocket.

[44:20] Jess McAnally: Oh, I love penny in my pocket. That is good. Someone shared that on the discord recently saying, I can't believe they did this. I can't believe this was their fucking Tony Award performance. One guy on stage.

[44:33] Andrew DeWolf: You have Bette Midler and a cast of thousands, and this is your Tony Award performance.

[44:39] Jess McAnally: Are you looking at penny in my pocket right now?

[44:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I want to see it again. That's so good.

[44:46] Jess McAnally: That was the day musicals with cheese was born. Was you watching penny in my pocket?

[44:51] Andrew DeWolf: As funny as hell, dude.

[44:53] Jess McAnally: Is it funny because it's actually good or is it funny because you can't believe they did that?

[44:58] Andrew DeWolf: It's a mix of the two. That's the best kind of funny like that, especially for music. The best funny music is when it's funny because it's like silly, but also it's good at the same time. It's like, oh, it's actually kind of good, though.

[45:14] Jess McAnally: What would be another kind of funny, but it's good music?

[45:16] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, gosh, you can't put me on the spot like that. You can't put me on the spot.

[45:21] Jess McAnally: Oh, God, you said that like you.

[45:25] Andrew DeWolf: It's like, you know it when you see it, when you hear it, you know, you hear it and you're like, yes, one of my few regrets. And this is a thing I almost did several times, and I was too much of a fucking coward to do it. I really want to write Stephen Sondheim a letter because we have had conversations about whether music can be funny, like music alone. And what makes funny music? I know it's about timing, but like, is there like tactics to it?

[46:02] Jess McAnally: There are other composers.

[46:03] Andrew DeWolf: No, you don't. You don't think Weber would have anything interesting to say?

[46:08] Jess McAnally: Do you think Andrew Lloyd Webber has ever told a successful joke in a musical?

[46:13] Andrew DeWolf: No. The closest maybe is Herod's Song, but we kind of know that's an accident and very much on performance.

[46:20] Jess McAnally: That's true. And it really does depend on performance, too, because there's versions of that that I just do not like.

[46:27] Andrew DeWolf: Herod's Song is like peak, but I think the person that would actually have thoughts on this is Lin Manuel Miranda, because I think You'll Be Back is a song that only works because of the timing of the song.

[46:39] Jess McAnally: No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if he'd have insight into it, though, because I feel like he's not he has experience, of course, but he's not wise like that, you know?

[46:49] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. I'm going to be very interested to see Octet when that comes out, because I think he I think that's much more suited to his style than Tick Tick Boom, even though I did like Tick Tick Boom.

[47:00] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it's going to be. Did you see? Did you see? This is actually important breaking news. Starlight Express is going to be airing a pro shot into movie theaters.

[47:10] Andrew DeWolf: You said it was important news. What the fuck is that?

[47:14] Jess McAnally: No, that means we have to go see it.

[47:16] Andrew DeWolf: Of course it does. Jesus fucking Christ. Starlight Express.

[47:21] Jess McAnally: Yes. Why? And on top of that, Angela Webber announced that in 2027 they will be airing the Phantom of the Opera pro shot in cinemas as well, which we will also have to go see in theaters.

[47:34] Andrew DeWolf: We got to do another Phantom episode, brother. It's been almost a decade since our last Phantom episode.

[47:41] Jess McAnally: No, you're right. You're right. We can't we can't let the people not get what they want.

[47:46] Andrew DeWolf: And they want more Phantom of the Opera, obviously. I really think I want to see Starlight Express.

[47:54] Jess McAnally: What do you you don't want to see Cinderella, but on roller skates again in a movie?

[48:00] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? Take Rebecca. She'll love it.

[48:03] Jess McAnally: I don't know if she will, but maybe she will. That's fine.

[48:06] Andrew DeWolf: You took her to see Cats.

[48:08] Jess McAnally: She took me to see Cats.

[48:12] Andrew DeWolf: But who had a better time?

[48:13] Jess McAnally: We were gifted the ability to see Cats.

[48:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, exactly.

[48:18] Jess McAnally: Speaking of gifted to see Cats, what is our overall thoughts on Death Becomes Her and our cheese rating? Andrew, why don't you start us off?

[48:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I just I think my only thought is I worry that I enjoyed it in the moment, but it's going to be one of those ones where I kind of forget about it and it's not one that I'd want to return to that much.

[48:39] Jess McAnally: Really?

[48:39] Andrew DeWolf: I just I worry it's going to be another like comedy musical where it's like it's funny when you see it and then you're like, OK, let me move on. I just I get flashbacks to like something rotten, which was great. And then it's like, eh, whatever.

[48:56] Jess McAnally: Something rotten. I feel like I was like the big negative guy on that where I'm like, I don't think this is for me.

[48:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like I was really positive on that. And then now it's years later and it's like, I don't even care.

[49:06] Jess McAnally: Are you embarrassed that you were positive on that?

[49:08] Andrew DeWolf: Not embarrassed. No, I'm not embarrassed of anything I've done. You know, it's fine.

[49:11] Jess McAnally: OK, before you go into cheese ratings, because I actually kind of want to know if you can rank these. So get your little ranking thing down there. So remind people of your ranking system.

[49:26] Andrew DeWolf: It's just A through D, A, B, C, D, A is the best. D is the worst. And it's ranked only within itself. So not against anything else.

[49:34] Jess McAnally: We're going to do Halloween musicals or Halloween adjacent musicals.

[49:39] Andrew DeWolf: OK.

[49:39] Jess McAnally: OK, we're going to start with the obvious, the Rocky Horror Show.

[49:42] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Rocky Horror. I'm trying to remember like what else is going to be on this list because that could be A or B, depending. We'll start with an A and maybe revisit at the end.

[49:53] Jess McAnally: All right. All right. Little Shop of Horrors.

[49:56] Andrew DeWolf: OK, Little Shop is is definitely A.

[49:58] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[49:59] Andrew DeWolf: Potentially top of A.

[50:00] Jess McAnally: Carrie, the musical, which is like getting talked about. And part of me thinks we should do an episode on that again, because I'm not for look, but Andrew didn't even watch Carrie, the musical. He just listened to the album for that episode.

[50:12] Andrew DeWolf: It's true.

[50:13] Jess McAnally: So maybe we should give that one another watch next Halloween.

[50:16] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, just going on the album, I think I'd maybe even give it a B. The thing is, every time I watch an adaptation of Carrie outside of the diploma film, I'm just like, man, this would be better with those musical numbers in it. I'm giving it a B. We put Carrie in B.

[50:31] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Beetlejuice.

[50:34] Jess McAnally: OK, I think Beetlejuice can get A. I think Beetlejuice can make it in there.

[50:36] Andrew DeWolf: The Addams Family.

[50:38] Jess McAnally: Oh, God, I don't even remember this. Brent was on the episode. It was like two and a half hours long. I'm pretty sure it is one of our longest episodes.

[50:46] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my God.

[50:47] Jess McAnally: You're right.

[50:49] Andrew DeWolf: Does this get C? Where would you put this?

[50:52] Jess McAnally: I think I'd either low B, high C. Let's put it. If Carrie can get B, maybe Addams Family can get B.

[50:58] Andrew DeWolf: We'll put Addams Family there, too.

[50:59] Jess McAnally: All right. All right. Phantom of the Opera.

[51:02] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like these are some heavy hitters. I think Phantom, I would actually, I could live with that in A.

[51:09] Jess McAnally: Sweeney Todd.

[51:10] Andrew DeWolf: Jesus, Sweeney Todd is like actually top of A.

[51:13] Jess McAnally: That's crazy.

[51:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that is the tippity top of A. It's hard to lower some of the, I think Rocky Horror is going to have to go down.

[51:20] Jess McAnally: That's fine.

[51:21] Andrew DeWolf: We're about to get some shit here.

[51:23] Jess McAnally: American Psycho.

[51:25] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, American Psycho is like D or C. I might put that D with the competition.

[51:30] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[51:31] Andrew DeWolf: Evil Dead.

[51:33] Jess McAnally: Evil Dead is like low B.

[51:37] Andrew DeWolf: See, I'm trying not to go with like those slant ones.

[51:40] Jess McAnally: So Jekyll and Hyde, I'd put in there, too.

[51:43] Andrew DeWolf: Addams Family I'm dropping down. Jekyll and Hyde is D.

[51:47] Jess McAnally: You know what? We'll do two more.

[51:49] Andrew DeWolf: Ride the Cyclone.

[51:50] Jess McAnally: Ride the Cyclone.

[51:52] Andrew DeWolf: It was pretty decent. Does that make it B?

[51:55] Jess McAnally: I think I'm going to C for this one.

[51:57] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[51:57] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[51:58] Andrew DeWolf: And just because the competition is so stiff.

[52:00] Jess McAnally: It really is.

[52:01] Andrew DeWolf: And last but not least for this one, there's more.

[52:05] Jess McAnally: We could definitely do more.

[52:06] Andrew DeWolf: Like there's a lot of but we're stopping here is Goosebumps the musical.

[52:06] Jess McAnally: Goosebumps the musical.

[52:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that was an album. It was fine. I think that's also a C.

[52:16] Jess McAnally: Oh shit.

[52:17] Andrew DeWolf: OK, we're throwing this in there just because it's our friend. Tarrytown the musical.

[52:19] Jess McAnally: Adam Wachter's musical.

[52:22] Andrew DeWolf: Actually, I remember liking that one decently. We'll put that. That can probably be bottom of B.

[52:30] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I like that one a lot.

[52:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I remember thinking that one was at least very interesting.

[52:37] Jess McAnally: So Andrew's official Halloween recommendation of musicals list is as follows.

[52:43] Andrew DeWolf: Sweeney Todd, Little Shop of Horrors, Beetlejuice, Phantom, Carrie, Rocky Horror, Evil Dead, Tarrytown, Goosebumps, Ride the Cyclone, Addams Family, American Psycho, and Jekyll and Hyde in that order.

[52:56] Jess McAnally: The B tier stuff maybe is a little out of order, but I didn't bother to order it.

[53:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[53:04] Jess McAnally: Carrie might not be top. I think Rocky Horror would probably be top.

[53:07] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. Some days I like Carrie more than Rocky Horror.

[53:12] Jess McAnally: I think Carrie has really some very solid songs in it.

[53:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think when we do it again, we're going to watch the 1980s original Broadway bootleg and see how we feel about that original production.

[53:24] Jess McAnally: The Grease costume.

[53:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[53:28] Jess McAnally: The lasted three days, then closed musical.

[53:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[53:33] Jess McAnally: Oops, I meant Grease, not Grease.

[53:40] Andrew DeWolf: Language gaps are interesting.

[53:41] Jess McAnally: But your cheese rating for Death Becomes Her.

[53:46] Andrew DeWolf: I'm going to give it a piece of plastic Swiss cheese because it's plastic. So it'll never age. But it also has a hole in it.

[53:54] Jess McAnally: Fair enough. I like this musical a lot. I did kind of leave a little disappointed when I saw it on Broadway. Just a touch. But it's grown on me even more.

[54:04] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[54:05] Jess McAnally: I think the book is probably the weakest part where the song staging and all that and acting is really doing a lot of work there.

[54:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[54:12] Jess McAnally: I am giving this. This is very weird. This is very morbid. In a Switzerland town, there is a group of cheeses that are being aged for people's funerals. And they call it the Valley of the Cheese of the Dead. And I'm giving that valley.

[54:31] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. So is this like you can only eat this cheese at a funeral?

[54:35] Jess McAnally: Yeah. It is like a specific wheel of cheese that you buy and set aside to age. And your family will eat at your funeral.

[54:43] Andrew DeWolf: I'll never get to taste it.

[54:45] Jess McAnally: Imagine the heartbreak of a cheese you bought that will never be eaten.

[54:49] Andrew DeWolf: By you.

[54:50] Jess McAnally: By me. No, that was a good episode. And we got one more spooky holiday episode. We got to continue next week with the Scooby-Doo tradition. Because last year we did Zombie Island. We've got to do Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost next week. Are you excited?

[55:06] Andrew DeWolf: I actually am. This one, I was pleasantly surprised.

[55:11] Jess McAnally: That was the one I was talking about last year.

[55:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Zombie Island's fine, but it's no Witch's Ghost.

[55:16] Jess McAnally: I think you were right. You had something there.

[55:19] Andrew DeWolf: Well, we'll find out next week. And until then, this has been Musicals with Cheese.

[55:23] Jess McAnally: Buh-bye.

[55:38] Jess McAnally: The Musicals with Cheese podcast is hosted by Jesse McAnally and Andrew DeWolfe. Our executive producer is Jesse McAnally, and our creative producer is Elizabeth Esten. This show is mixed and edited by Jesse McAnally. Our theme song was composed by Andrew DeWolfe, and the artwork was designed by JRL Studios. Our Keeper of the Cheese is the one and only Juliet Antonio. If you have the funds available, we would love to have you over at Patreon, where you can get tons of fun perks, including full bonus episodes. Also, if you don't mind, could you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify? Just a few extra words to let us know how we're doing. And if you have any corrections, ideas, or just want to say hello, send us an email at musicaltheaterlives at gmail.com. To listen to our entire backlog of episodes, please visit bpn.fm slash cheese. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week.